Weekly TTC: Ch. 9
bookburn
Nine
Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
Amass a store of gold and jade, and no one can protect it.
Claim wealth and titles, and disaster will follow.
Retire when the work is done.
This is the way of heaven.
Ichin Shen
My take,
For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
A house filled full with gold and jades cannot be retained.
Priding on rich possessions is courting affliction.
When the work is done, retire.
It is the Way of Heaven.
-TTC 9-
:)
IS
Jaybuzin0000
>bookburn quoted:
[...s]
>> Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
>For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
If I had a million dollars
for every time I kept pouring
this\that into a bottomless mug
I'd be overflowing with riches!
Normally I took the passage to mean
that once something is full it will wane
but to leave room for more
is in keeping with dao.
Another saying is
to quit while you're ahead.
Ya gotta know when to hold 'em ...
>> Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
>An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
I always took this to refer to a way
that sharpening beyond sharp
tends to be counterproductive.
As a knife-edge is ground away
it disappears entirely.
-fwiw
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >bookburn quoted:
> [...s]
>
> >> Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
>
> >For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
>
> If I had a million dollars
> for every time I kept pouring
> this\that into a bottomless mug
> I'd be overflowing with riches!
Is that telling you something?
>
> Normally I took the passage to mean
> that once something is full it will wane
Question remains, how full is "full"?
> but to leave room for more
> is in keeping with dao.
Short of Tao is ain't keeping with.
>
> Another saying is
> to quit while you're ahead.
> Ya gotta know when to hold 'em ...
That is to say don't grab something that you cannot hold.
>
> >> Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
>
> >An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
>
> I always took this to refer to a way
> that sharpening beyond sharp
> tends to be counterproductive.
> As a knife-edge is ground away
> it disappears entirely.
A job of amateur swordsmith?
A sword of no-sword needs no blade, :)
IS
>
> -fwiw
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
>>IS wrote:
>>>bb quoted:
[...s]
>> >> Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
>>
>> >For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
>>
>> If I had a million dollars
>> for every time I kept pouring
>> this\that into a bottomless mug
>> I'd be overflowing with riches!
>
>Is that telling you something?
reminds me that I'm a bozo.
and that crying over spilt milk
is of no use.
-wo du yi yu ren, er gui si mu.
>> Normally I took the passage to mean
>> that once something is full it will wane
>
>Question remains, how full is "full"?
and a good question t'hat is.
less and less is said to be dao.
'Liu Shih-li says, "Since fullness always leads
to emptiness, avoid satisfaction."'
guess Mick Jagger wasn't a daoist?
>> but to leave room for more
>> is in keeping with dao.
>
>Short of Tao is ain't keeping with.
Over the years I've noticed my own pattern
of becoming very exuberant which often
was followed by a trip to the pits. I learned
to temper my mania to avoid depression.
>> >An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
>>
>> I always took this to refer to a way
>> that sharpening beyond sharp
>> tends to be counterproductive.
>> As a knife-edge is ground away
>> it disappears entirely.
>
>A job of amateur swordsmith?
Maximum thinness is a single molecule.
Beyond that point the point is no longer
at the same point but recedes. It also helps
to know what material is suitable for cutting.
>A sword of no-sword needs no blade, :)
Pao-ting used wu-hsin?
>IS
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> >>IS wrote:
> >>>bb quoted:
> [...s]
>
> >> >> Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
> >>
> >> >For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
> >>
> >> If I had a million dollars
> >> for every time I kept pouring
> >> this\that into a bottomless mug
> >> I'd be overflowing with riches!
> >
> >Is that telling you something?
>
> reminds me that I'm a bozo.
And empty words have no substance.
> and that crying over spilt milk
> is of no use.
Hence the original comment.
> -wo du yi yu ren,
Being different is not anything special, but more of the difference,
more remains the same, i.e. the world is full of it.
> er gui si mu.
Not with empty words.
>
> >> Normally I took the passage to mean
> >> that once something is full it will wane
> >
> >Question remains, how full is "full"?
>
> and a good question t'hat is.
> less and less is said to be dao.
It depends on "less and less" of "what."
>
> 'Liu Shih-li says, "Since fullness always leads
> to emptiness, avoid satisfaction."'
Material-wise, maybe, Tao is all-inclusive, always full.
> guess Mick Jagger wasn't a daoist?
Western style daoist, maybe, classical Tao-ism way is Jiu-Jing.
Near-sighted doesn't work, "Da Yue Shi, Shi Yue Yuan, Yuan Yue Fan."-TTC
25-
>
> >> but to leave room for more
> >> is in keeping with dao.
> >
> >Short of Tao is ain't keeping with.
>
> Over the years I've noticed my own pattern
> of becoming very exuberant which often
> was followed by a trip to the pits. I learned
> to temper my mania to avoid depression.
Taoism is at the work, maybe one day you may actually learn something,
if not bozoness in the way.
>
> >> >An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
> >>
> >> I always took this to refer to a way
> >> that sharpening beyond sharp
> >> tends to be counterproductive.
> >> As a knife-edge is ground away
> >> it disappears entirely.
> >
> >A job of amateur swordsmith?
>
> Maximum thinness is a single molecule.
An idea may be good for making a high speed CPU,
> Beyond that point the point is no longer
> at the same point but recedes.
But not a swordsmith's concern.
> It also helps
> to know what material is suitable for cutting.
The Tao of swordsmith?
>
> >A sword of no-sword needs no blade, :)
>
> Pao-ting used wu-hsin?
And a sharp knife.
:)
IS
>
> >IS
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
[...s]
>> reminds me that I'm a bozo.
>
>And empty words have no substance.
it really has amused me
to watch myself pouring more
into a mug that is going to overflow
and I know it's going to overflow
but in my zeal to empty the container
from which the milk is flowing
I go on and do it anyway.
>> and that crying over spilt milk
>> is of no use.
>
>Hence the original comment.
no laughter, no dao?
from TTC 20, at the end of the verse(s);
>> -wo du yi yu ren,
>
>Being different is not anything special, but more of the difference,
>more remains the same, i.e. the world is full of it.
>
>> er gui si mu.
>
>Not with empty words.
jest watchin teh
river, overflow
back to #9:
'chi er ying zhi
bu ru qi yi'
>> >> Normally I took the passage to mean
>> >> that once something is full it will wane
>> >
>> >Question remains, how full is "full"?
>>
>> and a good question t'hat is.
>> less and less is said to be dao.
>
>It depends on "less and less" of "what."
fu is the motion of dao.
returning, cycling, dao goes the other way.
in terms of knowledge, less and less.
in terms of general direction; when contrasted
with other fashions that suggest more and more,
daoism is regressive, tending to simplify, p'u,
and wu\wu-wei.
>> 'Liu Shih-li says, "Since fullness always leads
>> to emptiness, avoid satisfaction."'
>
>Material-wise, maybe, Tao is all-inclusive, always full.
while, like a bellows, is Everempty, in a way.
I know you take wu and wu-chi to not refer
to emptiness or nonbeing. Shunyata also
may refer to a swelling-fullness. Space, aswell,
is it really empty?
>> guess Mick Jagger wasn't a daoist?
>
>Western style daoist, maybe,
probably not that either.
he couldn't get no satisfation
but neither was he trying to not-get.
>classical Tao-ism way is Jiu-Jing.
please elaborate. -tia
>Near-sighted doesn't work, "Da Yue Shi, Shi Yue Yuan, Yuan Yue Fan."-TTC
>25-
naturally
>> >> but to leave room for more
>> >> is in keeping with dao.
>> >
>> >Short of Tao is ain't keeping with.
>>
>> Over the years I've noticed my own pattern
>> of becoming very exuberant which often
>> was followed by a trip to the pits. I learned
>> to temper my mania to avoid depression.
>
>Taoism is at the work, maybe one day you may actually learn something,
>if not bozoness in the way.
It works-without-working!
-less and less is said to be the way.
>> >> >An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
>> >>
>> >> I always took this to refer to a way
>> >> that sharpening beyond sharp
>> >> tends to be counterproductive.
>> >> As a knife-edge is ground away
>> >> it disappears entirely.
>> >
>> >A job of amateur swordsmith?
>>
>> Maximum thinness is a single molecule.
>
>An idea may be good for making a high speed CPU,
>
>> Beyond that point the point is no longer
>> at the same point but recedes.
>
>But not a swordsmith's concern.
>
>> It also helps
>> to know what material is suitable for cutting.
>
>The Tao of swordsmith?
the master tailor doesn't cut.
>> >A sword of no-sword needs no blade, :)
>>
>> Pao-ting used wu-hsin?
>
>And a sharp knife.
never needed sharpening!
{:-])))
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> reminds me that I'm a bozo.
> >
> >And empty words have no substance.
>
> it really has amused me
> to watch myself pouring more
> into a mug that is going to overflow
> and I know it's going to overflow
> but in my zeal to empty the container
> from which the milk is flowing
> I go on and do it anyway.
Guess that what makes what you are. :)
>
> >> and that crying over spilt milk
> >> is of no use.
> >
> >Hence the original comment.
>
> no laughter, no dao?
"For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so
full."
>
> from TTC 20, at the end of the verse(s);
> >> -wo du yi yu ren,
> >
> >Being different is not anything special, but more of the difference,
> >more remains the same, i.e. the world is full of it.
> >
> >> er gui si mu.
> >
> >Not with empty words.
>
> jest watchin teh
> river, overflow
Don't get drown in it.
>
> back to #9:
> 'chi er ying zhi
> bu ru qi yi'
"For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so
full."
> >> >> Normally I took the passage to mean
> >> >> that once something is full it will wane
> >> >
> >> >Question remains, how full is "full"?
> >>
> >> and a good question t'hat is.
> >> less and less is said to be dao.
> >
> >It depends on "less and less" of "what."
>
> fu is the motion of dao.
> returning, cycling, dao goes the other way.
> in terms of knowledge, less and less.
That is to say to digest and transfer the mental knowledge into the
physical knowledge.
> in terms of general direction; when contrasted
> with other fashions that suggest more and more,
> daoism is regressive, tending to simplify, p'u,
> and wu\wu-wei.
So the physical knowledge will manifest into Wu-Wei without the illusory
mind.
>
> >> 'Liu Shih-li says, "Since fullness always leads
> >> to emptiness, avoid satisfaction."'
> >
> >Material-wise, maybe, Tao is all-inclusive, always full.
>
> while, like a bellows, is Everempty, in a way.
> I know you take wu and wu-chi to not refer
> to emptiness or nonbeing. Shunyata also
> may refer to a swelling-fullness. Space, aswell,
> is it really empty?
You may say, you may say, [but how does it feel?]
>
> >> guess Mick Jagger wasn't a daoist?
> >
> >Western style daoist, maybe,
>
> probably not that either.
> he couldn't get no satisfation
> but neither was he trying to not-get.
>
> >classical Tao-ism way is Jiu-Jing.
>
> please elaborate. -tia
Jiu, investigate thoroughly; Jing, complete; Jiu-Jing, investigate
thoroughly and completely.
>
> >Near-sighted doesn't work, "Da Yue Shi, Shi Yue Yuan, Yuan Yue Fan."-TTC
> >25-
>
> naturally
>
> >> >> but to leave room for more
> >> >> is in keeping with dao.
> >> >
> >> >Short of Tao is ain't keeping with.
> >>
> >> Over the years I've noticed my own pattern
> >> of becoming very exuberant which often
> >> was followed by a trip to the pits. I learned
> >> to temper my mania to avoid depression.
> >
> >Taoism is at the work, maybe one day you may actually learn something,
> >if not bozoness in the way.
>
> It works-without-working!
> -less and less is said to be the way.
Hopefully, hopefully...
>
> >> >> >An over-sharpened blade cannot keep it sharp for long.
> >> >>
> >> >> I always took this to refer to a way
> >> >> that sharpening beyond sharp
> >> >> tends to be counterproductive.
> >> >> As a knife-edge is ground away
> >> >> it disappears entirely.
> >> >
> >> >A job of amateur swordsmith?
> >>
> >> Maximum thinness is a single molecule.
> >
> >An idea may be good for making a high speed CPU,
> >
> >> Beyond that point the point is no longer
> >> at the same point but recedes.
> >
> >But not a swordsmith's concern.
> >
> >> It also helps
> >> to know what material is suitable for cutting.
> >
> >The Tao of swordsmith?
>
> the master tailor doesn't cut.
Fairy tail?
>
> >> >A sword of no-sword needs no blade, :)
> >>
> >> Pao-ting used wu-hsin?
> >
> >And a sharp knife.
>
> never needed sharpening!
Because he learned how to cut [instead of talking about it]. "Shu Ran
Wei Jie, Shi Wei Zhi, Xing Wei Chi."
:)
IS
>
> {:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
>>Ichin wrote:
[...s]
>> daoism is regressive, tending to simplify, p'u,
>> and wu\wu-wei.
>
>So the physical knowledge will manifest into Wu-Wei without the illusory
>mind.
those who seek to be full
may not ever arrive
>> >Material-wise, maybe, Tao is all-inclusive, always full.
>>
>> while, like a bellows, is Everempty, in a way.
>> I know you take wu and wu-chi to not refer
>> to emptiness or nonbeing. Shunyata also
>> may refer to a swelling-fullness. Space, aswell,
>> is it really empty?
>
>You may say, you may say, [but how does it feel?]
in at-Once
upon a time beyond time during tea,
a guest was being served by a
master of cermonies.
When pouring did not stop at the brim
but overflowed onto the table and floor,
did the seeker have any room for m'ore?
>> the master tailor doesn't cut.
>
>Fairy tail?
pointing far, a way,
w'earing moonlight
may suit One
at times
rick
> Jaybuzin0000 wrote:
> > the master tailor doesn't cut.
>
> Fairy tail?
>
That would be Fairy 'tale'.
Fairy 'tail' would be a description of Peter.
;-)
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> >>Ichin wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> daoism is regressive, tending to simplify, p'u,
> >> and wu\wu-wei.
> >
> >So the physical knowledge will manifest into Wu-Wei without the illusory
> >mind.
>
> those who seek to be full
> may not ever arrive
Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
the "full" is there.
>
> >> >Material-wise, maybe, Tao is all-inclusive, always full.
> >>
> >> while, like a bellows, is Everempty, in a way.
> >> I know you take wu and wu-chi to not refer
> >> to emptiness or nonbeing. Shunyata also
> >> may refer to a swelling-fullness. Space, aswell,
> >> is it really empty?
> >
> >You may say, you may say, [but how does it feel?]
>
> in at-Once
> upon a time beyond time during tea,
> a guest was being served by a
> master of cermonies.
>
> When pouring did not stop at the brim
> but overflowed onto the table and floor,
> did the seeker have any room for m'ore?
Bring out another cup?
>
> >> the master tailor doesn't cut.
> >
> >Fairy tail?
>
> pointing far, a way,
> w'earing moonlight
> may suit One
> at times
When the pointing is a pointing?
:)
IS
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin Shen wrote:
>
> > Jaybuzin0000 wrote:
> > > the master tailor doesn't cut.
> >
> > Fairy tail?
> >
>
> That would be Fairy 'tale'.
Thanks,
> Fairy 'tail' would be a description of Peter.
Never really quite figure out how the swallow-tail get into the fashion.
;)
IS
> ;-)
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
>> Ichin wrote:
>> >Jay wrote:
>> >>Ichin wrote:
[...s]
>> those who seek to be full
>> may not ever arrive
>
>Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
>the "full" is there.
when one ceases two-seek
One may finally arrive
atime beyond times.
[...zen tea-master overflows cup...]
>> When pouring did not stop at the brim
>> but overflowed onto the table and floor,
>> did the seeker have any room for m'ore?
>
>Bring out another cup?
if the seeker was genuine
the One cup may have been brought out.
Imo, this may have been elaborated in a
phrase, "the chih does not reach."
I'd written, long a go:
"'In the Shih-shuo Hsin-yu ...it is said: "A
visitor asked Yueh Kuang for the meaning
of the statement: 'A chih does not reach.'
Yueh Kuang made no comment on the statement,
but immediately touched the table with the
handle of a fly whisk, saying: 'Does it reach
or does it not?' The visitor answered: 'It does.'
Yueh then lifted the fly whisk and asked: 'If
it reaches, how can it be taken away?'" (Ch.4.)
This statement that a chih does not reach is
one of the arguments used by the followers
of Kung-sun Lung, as reported in the last
chapter of the Chuang-tzu. The word chih
literally means finger, ...
...According to Yueh Kuang, however,
if the reaching is really reaching, then it
cannot be taken away.'"
>> pointing far, a way,
>> w'earing moonlight
>> may suit One
>> at times
>
>When the pointing is a pointing?
-in Teh,
house of mirrors?
>:)
>IS
peter li'ir key
a brimful of coffee spills when carried.
> Oversharpen the blade, and the edge will soon blunt.
a blade that is honed too much weakens.
> Amass a store of gold and jade, and no one can protect it.
"money is like manure: it's not worth a thing unless it's spread
around encouraging young things to grow." - dolly levi, hello dolly
> Claim wealth and titles, and disaster will follow.
58. Yea! deem not of change: ye shall be as ye are, & not other. Therefore
the kings of the earth shall be Kings for ever: the slaves shall serve.
There is none that shall be cast down or lifted up: all is ever as it was.
Yet there are masked ones my servants: it may be that yonder beggar is a
King. A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test:
but a beggar cannot hide his poverty.
book 220 liber al vel legis
a claimant is not.
be or not be.
> Retire when the work is done.
clouds pass on after delivering their rain.
> This is the way of heaven.
man second-guesses.
peter li'ir key
k...@springhaven.org
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> >> Ichin wrote:
> >> >Jay wrote:
> >> >>Ichin wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> those who seek to be full
> >> may not ever arrive
> >
> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
> >the "full" is there.
>
> when one ceases two-seek
It stops,
> One may finally arrive
> atime beyond times.
Or DOA?
>
> [...zen tea-master overflows cup...]
> >> When pouring did not stop at the brim
> >> but overflowed onto the table and floor,
> >> did the seeker have any room for m'ore?
> >
> >Bring out another cup?
IOW, the metaphor is getting old.
>
> if the seeker was genuine
> the One cup may have been brought out.
> Imo, this may have been elaborated in a
> phrase, "the chih does not reach."
That's "when one ceases two-seek."
>
> I'd written, long a go:
> "'In the Shih-shuo Hsin-yu ...it is said: "A
> visitor asked Yueh Kuang for the meaning
> of the statement: 'A chih does not reach.'
> Yueh Kuang made no comment on the statement,
> but immediately touched the table with the
> handle of a fly whisk, saying: 'Does it reach
> or does it not?' The visitor answered: 'It does.'
> Yueh then lifted the fly whisk and asked: 'If
> it reaches, how can it be taken away?'" (Ch.4.)
> This statement that a chih does not reach is
> one of the arguments used by the followers
> of Kung-sun Lung, as reported in the last
> chapter of the Chuang-tzu. The word chih
> literally means finger, ...
> ...According to Yueh Kuang, however,
> if the reaching is really reaching, then it
> cannot be taken away.'"
Because it has reached to the "full[ness]," i.e. experienced.
>
> >> pointing far, a way,
> >> w'earing moonlight
> >> may suit One
> >> at times
> >
> >When the pointing is [not] a pointing?
When the pointing is not a pointing, one only sees the finger.
Where "Heaven and Earth is just beyond a finger away."-CT 2-
:)
IS
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
[...s]
>> >> those who seek to be full
>> >> may not ever arrive
>> >
>> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
>> >the "full" is there.
>>
>> when one ceases two-seek
>
>It stops,
is such a way
advantageous sum how?
>> One may finally arrive
>> atime beyond times.
>
>Or DOA?
ore beyond D and L
when 'one' is 'One'
does one really 'know'?
"8. Nieh Khüeh asked Wang Î, saying, 'Do you know, Sir, what all creatures
agree in approving and affirming?' 'How should I know it?' was the reply. 'Do
you know what it is that you do not know?' asked the other again, and he got
the same reply.
....
Nieh Khüeh said (further), 'Since you, Sir, do not know what is advantageous
and what is hurtful, is the Perfect man also in the same way without the
knowledge of them?' Wang Î replied, 'The Perfect man is spirit-like. Great
lakes might be boiling about him, and he would not feel their heat; the Ho and
the Han might be frozen tip, and he would not feel the cold; the hurrying
thunderbolts might split the mountains, and the wind shake the ocean, without
being able to make him afraid. Being such, he mounts on the clouds of the air,
rides on the sun and moon, and rambles at ease beyond the four seas. Neither
death nor life makes any change in him, and how much less should the
considerations of advantage and injury do so!'"
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> >> those who seek to be full
> >> >> may not ever arrive
> >> >
> >> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
> >> >the "full" is there.
> >>
> >> when one ceases two-seek
> >
> >It stops,
>
> is such a way
> advantageous sum how?
Advantageous on what?
"'...According to Yueh Kuang, however, if the reaching is really
reaching, then it cannot be taken away.'"
Why you even bother to quote/seek it if you are not going to read it?
>
> >> One may finally arrive
> >> atime beyond times.
> >
> >Or DOA?
>
> ore beyond D and L
> when 'one' is 'One'
> does one really 'know'?
If one still has question about it, no, one does not know.
>
> "8. Nieh Khüeh asked Wang Î, saying, 'Do you know, Sir, what all creatures
> agree in approving and affirming?' 'How should I know it?' was the reply. 'Do
> you know what it is that you do not know?' asked the other again, and he got
> the same reply.
Not knowing is not knowing.
> ....
> Nieh Khüeh said (further), 'Since you, Sir, do not know what is advantageous
> and what is hurtful, is the Perfect man also in the same way without the
> knowledge of them?' Wang Î replied, 'The Perfect man is spirit-like. Great
> lakes might be boiling about him, and he would not feel their heat; the Ho and
> the Han might be frozen tip, and he would not feel the cold; the hurrying
> thunderbolts might split the mountains, and the wind shake the ocean, without
> being able to make him afraid. Being such, he mounts on the clouds of the air,
> rides on the sun and moon, and rambles at ease beyond the four seas. Neither
> death nor life makes any change in him, and how much less should the
> considerations of advantage and injury do so!'"
>
> http://nothingistic.org/library/chuangtzu/chuang03.html
Now you know that superman is not your American invention but a long way
coming? A superman doesn't not need advantage, as he is the advantage.
And you think that you can get there by "ceases two-seek"?
Are you sure you are into the Tao-Chia not Tao-Chiao? Or you have to
read CT the western bible way?
Sigh, :)
IS
musician
<taichi...@taomartialarts.com> wrote:
>Jaybuzin0000 wrote:
>>
>> Ichin wrote:
>> >Jay wrote:
>> >> Ichin wrote:
>> >> >Jay wrote:
>> >> >>Ichin wrote:
>> [...s]
>>
>> >> those who seek to be full
>> >> may not ever arrive
>> >
>> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
>> >the "full" is there.
>>
>> when one ceases two-seek
>
>It stops,
we are all there
at one time or another ;-)
or;
what is reached
was never distended
>
>>
>> >> pointing far, a way,
>> >> w'earing moonlight
>> >> may suit One
>> >> at times
>> >
>> >When the pointing is [not] a pointing?
>
>When the pointing is not a pointing, one only sees the finger.
>
>Where "Heaven and Earth is just beyond a finger away."-CT 2-
>
>:)
>IS
>
>>
>> -in Teh,
>> house of mirrors?
>>
>> >:)
>> >IS
musician
Jaybuzin0000
>JB toiled in Teh fields:
[...possible...s]
>> >> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
>> >> >the "full" is there.
>> >>
>> >> when one ceases two-seek
>> >
>> >It stops,
>>
>> is such a way
>> advantageous sum how?
>
>Advantageous on what?
would you say that it is advantageous
to seek tao\oneness\unism\etc.?
>"'...According to Yueh Kuang, however, if the reaching is really
>reaching, then it cannot be taken away.'"
>
>Why you even bother to quote/seek it if you are not going to read it?
I was just wondering
if you felt\feel as though seeking tao
is of some advantage or not.
If it's always there, why bother to seek?
>> >> One may finally arrive
>> >> atime beyond times.
>> >
>> >Or DOA?
>>
>> ore beyond D and L
>> when 'one' is 'One'
>> does one really 'know'?
>
>If one still has question about it, no, one does not know.
When mind stops th'inking,
what does one know?
>> "8. Nieh Khüeh asked Wang Î, saying, 'Do you know, Sir, what all creatures
>> agree in approving and affirming?' 'How should I know it?' was the reply.
>'Do
>> you know what it is that you do not know?' asked the other again, and he
>got
>> the same reply.
>
>Not knowing is not knowing.
Perhaps there are many ways
to look at the meanings of words.
You know how to ski. You know that
you know that you know, deep down.
But while you're skiing you probably
are not thinking about knowing,
you're just doing it.
>> Nieh Khüeh said (further), 'Since you, Sir, do not know what is
>advantageous
>> and what is hurtful, is the Perfect man also in the same way without the
>> knowledge of them?' Wang Î replied, 'The Perfect man is spirit-like. Great
>> lakes might be boiling about him, and he would not feel their heat; the Ho
>and
>> the Han might be frozen tip, and he would not feel the cold; the hurrying
>> thunderbolts might split the mountains, and the wind shake the ocean,
>without
>> being able to make him afraid. Being such, he mounts on the clouds of the
>air,
>> rides on the sun and moon, and rambles at ease beyond the four seas.
>Neither
>> death nor life makes any change in him, and how much less should the
>> considerations of advantage and injury do so!'"
>>
>> http://nothingistic.org/library/chuangtzu/chuang03.html
>
>Now you know that superman is not your American invention but a long way
>coming?
Most everybody "just does" what they do
without stopping to ponder if it is advantageous,
or if they have found tao, or if they ought to
be seeking tao.
They are usually beyond a great many things.
>A superman doesn't not need advantage, as he is the advantage.
How does one become a superman?
>And you think that you can get there by "ceases two-seek"?
By trying,
it is virtually impossible.
By trying to not-try, it is very close
to being the same situation.
>Are you sure you are into the Tao-Chia not Tao-Chiao?
eye ain't necessarily
into anything in particular.
As a metaphysician, th'air are m'any things
in a bag of tricks.
>Or you have to
>read CT the western bible way?
what might t'hat be?
>Sigh, :)
>IS
-passing bottomless
jug around teh merry
going rounds
{:-])))
Ichin Shen
>
> IS exasperated:
Chuckle.
> >JB toiled in Teh fields:
> [...possible...s]
>
> >> >> >Some may not ever arrive, period; nevertheless, it doesn't invalidate
> >> >> >the "full" is there.
> >> >>
> >> >> when one ceases two-seek
> >> >
> >> >It stops,
> >>
> >> is such a way
> >> advantageous sum how?
> >
> >Advantageous on what?
>
> would you say that it is advantageous
> to seek tao\oneness\unism\etc.?
Yes.
>
> >"'...According to Yueh Kuang, however, if the reaching is really
> >reaching, then it cannot be taken away.'"
> >
> >Why you even bother to quote/seek it if you are not going to read it?
>
> I was just wondering
> if you felt\feel as though seeking tao
> is of some advantage or not.
> If it's always there, why bother to seek?
Only if you know where "there" is. "To seek" is not to find something
new but to find what you have lost.
>
> >> >> One may finally arrive
> >> >> atime beyond times.
> >> >
> >> >Or DOA?
> >>
> >> ore beyond D and L
> >> when 'one' is 'One'
> >> does one really 'know'?
> >
> >If one still has question about it, no, one does not know.
>
> When mind stops th'inking,
> what does one know?
Only if no-mind is there, otherwise, in a sterile blank one is lost, no,
one doesn't know.
>
> >> "8. Nieh Khüeh asked Wang Î, saying, 'Do you know, Sir, what all creatures
> >> agree in approving and affirming?' 'How should I know it?' was the reply.
> >'Do
> >> you know what it is that you do not know?' asked the other again, and he
> >got
> >> the same reply.
> >
> >Not knowing is not knowing.
>
> Perhaps there are many ways
> to look at the meanings of words.
> You know how to ski. You know that
> you know that you know, deep down.
> But while you're skiing you probably
> are not thinking about knowing,
> you're just doing it.
Doing it reflects the knowing.
>
> >> Nieh Khüeh said (further), 'Since you, Sir, do not know what is
> >advantageous
> >> and what is hurtful, is the Perfect man also in the same way without the
> >> knowledge of them?' Wang Î replied, 'The Perfect man is spirit-like. Great
> >> lakes might be boiling about him, and he would not feel their heat; the Ho
> >and
> >> the Han might be frozen tip, and he would not feel the cold; the hurrying
> >> thunderbolts might split the mountains, and the wind shake the ocean,
> >without
> >> being able to make him afraid. Being such, he mounts on the clouds of the
> >air,
> >> rides on the sun and moon, and rambles at ease beyond the four seas.
> >Neither
> >> death nor life makes any change in him, and how much less should the
> >> considerations of advantage and injury do so!'"
> >>
> >> http://nothingistic.org/library/chuangtzu/chuang03.html
> >
> >Now you know that superman is not your American invention but a long way
> >coming?
>
> Most everybody "just does" what they do
> without stopping to ponder if it is advantageous,
Not what is seen in the American culture/society, as almost every thing
is done by following the analysis/reports which always talk about this
advantageous or that disadvantageous, as well as reflected earlier in
your post.
> or if they have found tao, or if they ought to
> be seeking tao.
> They are usually beyond a great many things.
It is, that's why there's so few of them.
>
> >A superman doesn't not need advantage, as he is the advantage.
>
> How does one become a superman?
In an illusion.
>
> >And you think that you can get there by "ceases two-seek"?
>
> By trying,
> it is virtually impossible.
> By trying to not-try, it is very close
> to being the same situation.
Guess that's what makes you.
>
> >Are you sure you are into the Tao-Chia not Tao-Chiao?
>
> eye ain't necessarily
> into anything in particular.
Committing to noncommittal?
> As a metaphysician, th'air are m'any things
> in a bag of tricks.
Wordswords?
>
> >Or you have to
> >read CT the western bible way?
>
> what might t'hat be?
Believing whatever it said in the books?
>
> >Sigh, :)
> >IS
>
> -passing bottomless
> jug around teh merry
> going rounds
So it goes, :)
IS
> {:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>JB wrote:
[...s]
>Wang Î replied, 'The Perfect man is spirit-like. Great
>> >> lakes might be boiling about him, and he would not feel their heat; the
>Ho
>> >and
>> >> the Han might be frozen tip, and he would not feel the cold; the
>hurrying
>> >> thunderbolts might split the mountains, and the wind shake the ocean,
>> >without
>> >> being able to make him afraid. Being such, he mounts on the clouds of
>the
>> >air,
>> >> rides on the sun and moon, and rambles at ease beyond the four seas.
>> >Neither
>> >> death nor life makes any change in him, and how much less should the
>> >> considerations of advantage and injury do so!'"
>> >Now you know that superman is not your American invention but a long way
>> >coming?
>>
>> Most everybody "just does" what they do
>> without stopping to ponder if it is advantageous,
>
>Not what is seen in the American culture/society, as almost every thing
>is done by following the analysis/reports which always talk about this
>advantageous or that disadvantageous, as well as reflected earlier in
>your post.
while somethings are looked into,
most things are taken for granted.
each day on the news; mountains are seen
erupting, or rivers overflowing, or this\that
dramatic tragedy is unfolding while most
simply watch with interested-disinterest.
>> or if they have found tao, or if they ought to
>> be seeking tao.
>> They are usually beyond a great many things.
>
>It is, that's why there's so few of them.
most folks are "there" already
and know that they know deep-d'own.
when things such as G-d, Tao, or Tod are
discussed, they are not even disinterested.
>> >A superman doesn't not need advantage, as he is the advantage.
>>
>> How does one become a superman?
>
>In an illusion.
CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
>> >Are you sure you are into the Tao-Chia not Tao-Chiao?
>>
>> eye ain't necessarily
>> into anything in particular.
>
>Committing to noncommittal?
simply being me.
>> As a metaphysician, th'air are m'any things
>> in a bag of tricks.
>
>Wordswords?
some folks get tangled in
the mesh of heavenswords is wide
and nothing escapes.
>> >Or you have to
>> >read CT the western bible way?
>>
>> what might t'hat be?
>
>Believing whatever it said in the books?
ah,
eye seas.
Many Tanks!
{:-])))
kamerm
news:20010601080941...@ng-ff1.news.cs.com...
..IS..
...
> most folks are "there" already
> and know that they know deep-d'own.
> when things such as G-d, Tao, or Tod are
> discussed, they are not even disinterested.
unfortunately, this disinterest is unstable
and moct folks are easily perturbed
by the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"
hubs don't just sit -- they spin
and gyroscopic stability is gained
as Te is expressed (to *really* streetch a metaphor ;-)
-k
...
Ichin Shen
I teach my students not to take anything for granted, but be prepared
(i.e. learn the arts/skills thoroughly) and expect the unexpected,
> each day on the news; mountains are seen
> erupting, or rivers overflowing, or this\that
> dramatic tragedy is unfolding while most
> simply watch with interested-disinterest.
>
> >> or if they have found tao, or if they ought to
> >> be seeking tao.
> >> They are usually beyond a great many things.
> >
> >It is, that's why there's so few of them.
>
> most folks are "there" already
> and know that they know deep-d'own.
it'll be foolish to think that one possess some superior
techniques/skills/knowledge that no one knows or decodes, above all, be
honest deep down, as when push turn to shove only the real thing may
save the day.
> when things such as G-d, Tao, or Tod are
> discussed, they are not even disinterested.
>
> >> >A superman doesn't not need advantage, as he is the advantage.
> >>
> >> How does one become a superman?
> >
> >In an illusion.
>
> CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
A metaphor.
>
> >> >Are you sure you are into the Tao-Chia not Tao-Chiao?
> >>
> >> eye ain't necessarily
> >> into anything in particular.
> >
> >Committing to noncommittal?
>
> simply being me.
Being a bozo? Are you sure?
>
> >> As a metaphysician, th'air are m'any things
> >> in a bag of tricks.
> >
> >Wordswords?
>
> some folks get tangled in
> the mesh of heavenswords is wide
> and nothing escapes.
Some plays the wordswords, not knowing being played by it?
>
> >> >Or you have to
> >> >read CT the western bible way?
> >>
> >> what might t'hat be?
> >
> >Believing whatever it said in the books?
>
> ah,
> eye seas.
> Many Tanks!
:)
IS
> {:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>JB wrote:
[...s]
>> most folks are "there" already
>> and know that they know deep-d'own.
>
>it'll be foolish to think that one possess some superior
>techniques/skills/knowledge
all possess these techniques.
many have, as did Confucius, forgotten
that they have forgotten.
>that no one knows or decodes,
to know and decodes
such as you have
is of importance for some
>above all, be
>honest deep down, as when push turn to shove only the real thing may
>save the day.
the real thing
is what shines thru
each and every day
for those with eyes to sea
>> CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
>
>A metaphor.
for what?
>> >> eye ain't necessarily
>> >> into anything in particular.
>> >
>> >Committing to noncommittal?
>>
>> simply being me.
>
>Being a bozo? Are you sure?
quite.
a bozo is sum-ting aye does
without doing at times
>> some folks get tangled in
>> the mesh of heavenswords is wide
>> and nothing escapes.
>
>Some plays the wordswords, not knowing being played by it?
are you other than it?
wh'air does yu draw teh lines?
-jousting curious
while drinking of
bottomless bottles
in the grove
{:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>j wrote:
[...s]
>> most folks are "there" already
>> and know that they know deep-d'own.
>> when things such as G-d, Tao, or Tod are
>> discussed, they are not even disinterested.
>
>unfortunately, this disinterest is unstable
perhaps, for some, at times.
>and moct folks are easily perturbed
>by the "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune"
no atheists
in fox-wholes?
>hubs don't just sit -- they spin
>and gyroscopic stability is gained
>as Te is expressed (to *really* streetch a metaphor ;-)
whatEver
works-without-working!
{:-])))
Ichin Shen
>
> IS wrote:
> >JB wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> most folks are "there" already
> >> and know that they know deep-d'own.
> >
> >it'll be foolish to think that one possess some superior
> >techniques/skills/knowledge
>
> all possess these techniques.
Not if one has lost them,
> many have, as did Confucius, forgotten
> that they have forgotten.
in a sterile blank mind.
>
> >that no one knows or decodes,
>
> to know and decodes
> such as you have
> is of importance for some
>
> >above all, be
> >honest deep down, as when push turn to shove only the real thing may
> >save the day.
>
> the real thing
> is what shines thru
> each and every day
> for those with eyes to sea
Really? What's the moon looks like tonight?
>
> >> CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
> >
> >A metaphor.
>
> for what?
The state of being Oneness, "... moving free through 10k from end to
end, with unweaving character, vibrant Qi, not changing its character
because the surrounding, and comprehending the nature of all things, if
one can achieve all that, its nature is completed, its spirit has no
flaw, and nothing would be able to harm him."-CT 19-
>
> >> >> eye ain't necessarily
> >> >> into anything in particular.
> >> >
> >> >Committing to noncommittal?
> >>
> >> simply being me.
> >
> >Being a bozo? Are you sure?
>
> quite.
> a bozo is sum-ting aye does
> without doing at times
Ok, bozo it is.
>
> >> some folks get tangled in
> >> the mesh of heavenswords is wide
> >> and nothing escapes.
> >
> >Some plays the wordswords, not knowing being played by it?
>
> are you other than it?
> wh'air does yu draw teh lines?
Words are tool, use it, don't be used by it.
:)
IS
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
[...s]
>> >it'll be foolish to think that one possess some superior
>> >techniques/skills/knowledge
>>
>> all possess these techniques.
>
>Not if one has lost them,
Youngsters may be brainwashed
into adopting a personality acceptable
to the society in which they live.
In a way, they lose ying-erh.
If the chih\finger can be lost
did it ever exist?
>> many have, as did Confucius, forgotten
>> that they have forgotten.
>
>in a sterile blank mind.
Out to change the world
or playing cultural games
their minds are not blank
but written over and upon.
>> the real thing
>> is what shines thru
>> each and every day
>> for those with eyes to sea
>
>Really? What's the moon looks like tonight?
Open your eyes
and it will become apparent.
Can yu not sea teh wu
in each of 10k?
>> >> CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
>> >
>> >A metaphor.
>>
>> for what?
>
>The state of being Oneness, "... moving free through 10k from end to
>end, with unweaving character, vibrant Qi, not changing its character
>because the surrounding, and comprehending the nature of all things, if
>one can achieve all that, its nature is completed, its spirit has no
>flaw, and nothing would be able to harm him."-CT 19-
The texts are also called 'transformative'
for those being reminded of a ying-erh
t'hat is never unworn, way-deep, by One.
Ichin Shen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> >it'll be foolish to think that one possess some superior
> >> >techniques/skills/knowledge
> >>
> >> all possess these techniques.
> >
> >Not if one has lost them,
>
> Youngsters may be brainwashed
> into adopting a personality acceptable
> to the society in which they live.
Believing is a personal choice, truth remains a possibility upon close
examination,
> In a way, they lose ying-erh.
as well, the ying-erh's innocence remains in one's honesty.
>
> If the chih\finger can be lost
> did it ever exist?
It must be existed before it can be lost.
>
> >> many have, as did Confucius, forgotten
> >> that they have forgotten.
> >
> >in a sterile blank mind.
>
> Out to change the world
> or playing cultural games
> their minds are not blank
> but written over and upon.
And Tao is lost in mist of wordswords.
>
> >> the real thing
> >> is what shines thru
> >> each and every day
> >> for those with eyes to sea
> >
> >Really? What's the moon looks like tonight?
>
> Open your eyes
> and it will become apparent.
Really? What was the moon looked like last night?
> Can yu not sea teh wu
> in each of 10k?
wordswords?
>
> >> >> CT's "perfect man" is an illusion?
> >> >
> >> >A metaphor.
> >>
> >> for what?
> >
> >The state of being Oneness, "... moving free through 10k from end to
> >end, with unweaving character, vibrant Qi, not changing its character
> >because the surrounding, and comprehending the nature of all things, if
> >one can achieve all that, its nature is completed, its spirit has no
> >flaw, and nothing would be able to harm him."-CT 19-
>
> The texts are also called 'transformative'
> for those being reminded of a ying-erh
> t'hat is never unworn, way-deep, by One.
Wordswords?
:)
IS
Jaybuzin0000
>JB wrote:
[...s]
>> In a way, they lose ying-erh.
>
>as well, the ying-erh's innocence remains in one's honesty.
can you not see
the honesty in another's words
when you open your mind?
>> If the chih\finger can be lost
>> did it ever exist?
>
>It must be existed before it can be lost.
then it existed in all individuals
who ever lost it.
>> Out to change the world
>> or playing cultural games
>> their minds are not blank
>> but written over and upon.
>
>And Tao is lost in mist of wordswords.
can you not see Tao
within each of t'hems?
>> >> the real thing
>> >> is what shines thru
>> >> each and every day
>> >> for those with eyes to sea
>> >
>> >Really? What's the moon looks like tonight?
>>
>> Open your eyes
>> and it will become apparent.
>
>Really? What was the moon looked like last night?
dew yu
knot sea?
>> Can yu not sea teh wu
>> in each of 10k?
>
>wordswords?
does Yu exist, in a Way?
is Wu not within Wan-wu, in a Way?
an ocean waves.
can a wave be other than the ocean?
>> >The state of being Oneness, "... moving free through 10k from end to
>> >end, with unweaving character, vibrant Qi, not changing its character
>> >because the surrounding, and comprehending the nature of all things, if
>> >one can achieve all that, its nature is completed, its spirit has no
>> >flaw, and nothing would be able to harm him."-CT 19-
is this potential not within each individual?
>> The texts are also called 'transformative'
>> for those being reminded of a ying-erh
>> t'hat is never unworn, way-deep, by One.
>
>Wordswords?
can you teach others
to recover ying-erh and\ore Tao?
>:)
>IS
notion
waving
{:-])))
Ichin Shen
>
> IS wrote:
> >JB wrote:
> [...s]
>
> >> In a way, they lose ying-erh.
> >
> >as well, the ying-erh's innocence remains in one's honesty.
>
> can you not see
> the honesty in another's words
> when you open your mind?
There's no honesty in words without integrity.
>
> >> If the chih\finger can be lost
> >> did it ever exist?
> >
> >It must be existed before it can be lost.
>
> then it existed in all individuals
> who ever lost it.
Yes, not that "existed" means the same meaning anymore-if it lost, it
doesn't exist.
>
> >> Out to change the world
> >> or playing cultural games
> >> their minds are not blank
> >> but written over and upon.
> >
> >And Tao is lost in mist of wordswords.
>
> can you not see Tao
> within each of t'hems?
Tao of wordswords? Yes.
>
> >> >> the real thing
> >> >> is what shines thru
> >> >> each and every day
> >> >> for those with eyes to sea
> >> >
> >> >Really? What's the moon looks like tonight?
> >>
> >> Open your eyes
> >> and it will become apparent.
> >
> >Really? What was the moon looked like last night?
>
> dew yu
> knot sea?
Yes, but like to confirm with "those with eyes to sea."
>
> >> Can yu not sea teh wu
> >> in each of 10k?
> >
> >wordswords?
>
> does Yu exist, in a Way?
Yes,
> is Wu not within Wan-wu, in a Way?
Yes,
>
> an ocean waves.
> can a wave be other than the ocean?
Nevertheless, a wave is not the ocean.
>
> >> >The state of being Oneness, "... moving free through 10k from end to
> >> >end, with unweaving character, vibrant Qi, not changing its character
> >> >because the surrounding, and comprehending the nature of all things, if
> >> >one can achieve all that, its nature is completed, its spirit has no
> >> >flaw, and nothing would be able to harm him."-CT 19-
>
> is this potential not within each individual?
When a bud is not developed, it withers.
>
> >> The texts are also called 'transformative'
> >> for those being reminded of a ying-erh
> >> t'hat is never unworn, way-deep, by One.
> >
> >Wordswords?
>
> can you teach others
> to recover ying-erh and\ore Tao?
Tao cannot be taught, a Way maybe show, but one must walk on it oneself,
i.e. experienced.
>
> >:)
> >IS
>
> notion
> waving
as wrodswords remains, :)
IS
> {:-])))
be.rock
you had written:
> Ichin wrote:
> >bookburn quoted:
> [...s]
>
> >> Better to stop short than fill to the brim.
>
> >For fill it to the brim then spill it, it is better not to fill so full.
[snip]
> Normally I took the passage to mean
> that once something is full it will wane
> but to leave room for more
> is in keeping with dao.
ah...keeper of the san bao manages to spare one
(yet again: mind memory adds)
te's first treasure is *ci*
depicted as "heart" and "lush"
the meaning is "loving"
te's second treasure is *jian*
depicted as "person" and "conserving everything"
the meaning is "thrifty"
te's third trasure is...well...
we'll let the third speak first
do you shop at thrift stores too?
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
[...s]
>a wave is not the ocean.
a pov, no?
it could be said
that a cat has direct comprehension
but that most people don't.
I would qualify that to read, 'most people
who go seeking ...'
Most people, after all, really are
akin to cats in their direct comprehension.
>As Tao/Zen exists independent of you and I,
a pov.
ore, an assert'ion.
>and you and I are just a
>random sample of all minds,
interesting way
to look at 10k-things
>thus Tao/Zen exists independent of mind.
-a pov
imbo-
{:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>j.buzin wrote:
[...s]
>hey jb...long time huh?
yu knowsit!
>> that once something is full it will wane
>> but to leave room for more
>> is in keeping with dao.
>
>ah...keeper of the san bao manages to spare one
> (yet again: mind memory adds)
deposit'ions relax up on
river banks of streaming thoughts
>te's first treasure is *ci*
>depicted as "heart" and "lush"
>the meaning is "loving"
TTC 67.
'Ho-shang Kung says, "Lao-tzu says
the world calls his virtue great. ..."'
>te's second treasure is *jian*
>depicted as "person" and "conserving everything"
>the meaning is "thrifty"
an austere One
travailed westerli, young man?
>te's third trasure is...well...
>we'll let the third speak first
wu can be-without-being
quite extravaganzo, in a way.
>do you shop at thrift stores too?
reluctance
impels me to donate Ever'yonder too.
Kneading new blue jeans, eye ponders Target
sea ingas'how Penny's appears to have gone
wild over th'air.
-passing this\that
a round camp fire-
{:-])))
Ichin Shen
By all means, :)
IS
> {:-])))
Jaybuzin0000
>Jay wrote:
[...]
>> -a pov
>> imbo-
>
>By all means, :)
if you agree with everything I say
then I can't very well argue anym'ore.
-eye cries foul!
with nothing left two-say
can we still argue about nothing?
-in the grove
{:-])))
rick
> with nothing left two-say
> can we still argue about nothing?
> -in the grove
> {:-])))
Wood Wu care?
-R
((({-:)
Jaybuzin0000
>jay lamented a bit:
>> with nothing left two-say
>> can we still argue about nothing?
>> -in the grove
>> {:-])))
>
>Wood Wu care?
kin a p'u eye care-without-caring?
>-R
>((({-:)
-lookstraight a head
nothing but brew-skies,
looksawl a round, nothing,
but brew-skies!
{:-])))
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Nook/5534/johnnynash.html
htshen
>
> Ichin wrote:
> >Jay wrote:
> [...]
>
> >> -a pov
> >> imbo-
> >
> >By all means, :)
>
> if you agree with everything I say
Chinese has saying: 'you walk on your wide paved sunshine road, I walk
on my single path wood bridge.'
You might respond: 'By all means, :)'
If so, we are in the agreement of disagreement, each suits its own and
walks on one's path. Cool.
musician
who's Wu (and how long is he)?
musician
rick
wu = nothing
I was wondering if we argue about 'wu'/nothing
if 'wu'/nothing would care. Nothing might just have
nothing to do with us and leave us to our argument.
;-)
Jaybuzin0000
>musician wrote:
[...s]
>wu = nothing
whale, t'hats wh'at yu sez.
Ichin may hold that wu is a white-horsinging
a round of a different colour.
>I was wondering if we argue about 'wu'/nothing
>if 'wu'/nothing would care. Nothing might just have
>nothing to do with us and leave us to our argument.
Nothing is really a Way-cool dude.
He reminds me of Chaos. Of course
we all know what happened to him.
hmmm, wait a parsec,
his webbed toes aren't responding.
eye tries another url. ...
okay. this'll dew. jest in case
mebbe we all don't know what happened.
from;
http://users.compaqnet.be/cn111132/chuang-tzu/7.htm
"The emperor of the South Sea was called Shu [Brief], the emperor of the North
Sea was called Hu [Sudden], and the emperor of the central region was called
Hun-tun [Chaos]. Shu and Hu from time to time came together for a meeting in
the territory of Hun-tun, and Hun-tun treated them very generously. Shu and Hu
discussed how they could repay his kindness. "All men," they said, "have seven
openings so they can see, hear, eat, and breathe. But Hun-tun alone doesn't
have any. Let's trying boring him some!"
Every day they bored another hole, and on the seventh day Hun-tun died."
oh well,
-ribbit-
musician
I'm at work and can't look it up right now, but I remember from Ellen
Chen's definition of "wu" that it had more to say than just nothing
(bit of joke there ;-). I seem to have gotten it in my head that it
also means something like "anti", as in anti matter. The opposite of
something, The unseen and unknown. Or maybe you could say just plain
old "un". I would appreciate insights from those who know more.
tx
musician
musician
way-cool story J (to use your own vernacular). But I don't get it.
Maybe it's too early. Am I awake?.
musician
kamerm
news:3b25af2c....@news.planet.nl...
...
> I'm at work and can't look it up right now, but I remember from Ellen
> Chen's definition of "wu" that it had more to say than just nothing
> (bit of joke there ;-). I seem to have gotten it in my head that it
> also means something like "anti", as in anti matter. The opposite of
> something, The unseen and unknown. Or maybe you could say just plain
> old "un". I would appreciate insights from those who know more.
>
> tx
> musician
Hi mu :-)
another post of yours on my "wavelength"..
the opposite of "actual" is "potential", not "nothing"
fwiw ;-)
-k
musician
this is cool, but it smacks of sequential - "potential" implying a
place to go. hey - am I hackin' and slashin' or what!?
musician
Jaybuzin0000
>jay linked:
[...wu-wu-wu-wu-wu... all teh way home...]
lemming tries another approach-path.
in CT 7, at the very end,
chaos was killed
by well-meaning frogs
Palmer translates it this-a-way, "The Emperor
of the South Sea is known as Change. The Emperor
of the North Sea is called Dramatic. The Emperor
of the Centre is called Chaos. Change and Dramatic
met every so often in the region of Chaos. Chaos always treated them kindly and
virtuously.
Change and Dramatic said, 'Everyond has seven
orifices so they can see, hear, eat and breathe.
Chaos does not have these. Let us bore some holes in him.'
Each day they bored a hole into Chaos ... but
on the seventh day Chaos died."
in TTC 1
it speaks-without-speaking
of Yu and Wu
or, accordion to sum, yu-ming and wu-ming.
Fung says Yu is Being
and that Wu is Nonbeing.
Some say the passage refers to
yu-ming, with-name\naming
and wu-ming, without-name\naming.
How can nothing exist without something?
Are the two not one, a door-way, mysterious?
Shambhala pubs says that Wu is, literally, nonbeing
or "emptiness; a basic concept in Taoist philosophy;
the absence of qualities perceivable by the senses.
Wu is the essential characteristic of the Tao,
but may also refer to a Taoist so imbued with the Tao
that he has become free of all desires and passions,
i.e. empty." Shambhala refers to TTC 11.
Ichin may have said that Wu isn't exactly nothing,
nor is it particularly Nonbeing, but rather m'ore
akin to a fullness that includes all things.
w'hen Wu doesn't mind,
Yu matters.
-arriving soon
at theaters everwear
{:-])))
Zhoubu
mus...@planet.nl (musician) wrote:
rick <rsat...@iglou.com> wrote:
Jaybuzin0000 wrote:
& 'bb' for initializing them :)
>....
M
>I'm at work and can't look it up right now, but I remember from Ellen
>Chen's definition of "wu" that it had more to say than just nothing
>(bit of joke there ;-). I seem to have gotten it in my head that it
>also means something like "anti", as in anti matter. The opposite of
>something, The unseen and unknown. Or maybe you could say just plain
>old "un". I would appreciate insights from those who know more.
>
>tx
>musician
Before my slight spin on this "wu", also, in "Ellen Chen"'s translation of the
first two lines of the TTC/9 "To hold and fill (a vessel) to the full (ying),
It had better not be done" to another TT/9 line about not "To be rich, exalted,
and proud" publically externalizes a deeper esoteric student/teacher practice.
And that is for the later, how not to produce karma. ((Or an emotional
earth-natured formation *effect* produced from an emotional *caus*ing desire).
Clued in potentially manifesting this reincarnating emotional cause, which
substance-forms, is the desire to be "rich, exalted, and proud". These
full-form-ing-filling emotional wants "better not be done", says the teacher
(of these ascension arts) to the student, because :-o like-attracts-like.
Warned also, in another line in the TTC/9, "this is to invite blame upon
oneself", for attracting one's self back.
In the last line, "when the work is done" (mastering our life by fully
apperceiving the purpose for our living the earth life), "the person retires"
(from reincarnating). "Such is the Tao of heaven"(s training :)
Hence, by context, "wu" means do not act-ion, on these ions! (for fruit-ion ;-)
Wu-wei ;)
--Zhou
kamerm
where does metamorphosis go?
-k
musician
>musician blinked:
>>jay linked:
>[...wu-wu-wu-wu-wu... all teh way home...]
>
>lemming tries another approach-path.
>
>in CT 7, at the very end,
>chaos was killed
>by well-meaning frogs
>
>Palmer translates it this-a-way, "The Emperor
>of the South Sea is known as Change. The Emperor
>of the North Sea is called Dramatic. The Emperor
>of the Centre is called Chaos. Change and Dramatic
>met every so often in the region of Chaos. Chaos always treated them kindly and
>virtuously.
>Change and Dramatic said, 'Everyond has seven
>orifices so they can see, hear, eat and breathe.
>Chaos does not have these. Let us bore some holes in him.'
>Each day they bored a hole into Chaos ... but
>on the seventh day Chaos died."
I can understand these words, but my instinct tells me that I don't
understand their meaning. I'll ponder the thing for a while. I'm in no
hurry.
>
>in TTC 1
>it speaks-without-speaking
>of Yu and Wu
>or, accordion to sum, yu-ming and wu-ming.
>
>Fung says Yu is Being
>and that Wu is Nonbeing.
>Some say the passage refers to
>yu-ming, with-name\naming
>and wu-ming, without-name\naming.
>
>How can nothing exist without something?
>Are the two not one, a door-way, mysterious?
>
>Shambhala pubs says that Wu is, literally, nonbeing
>or "emptiness; a basic concept in Taoist philosophy;
>the absence of qualities perceivable by the senses.
>Wu is the essential characteristic of the Tao,
>but may also refer to a Taoist so imbued with the Tao
>that he has become free of all desires and passions,
>i.e. empty." Shambhala refers to TTC 11.
>
>Ichin may have said that Wu isn't exactly nothing,
>nor is it particularly Nonbeing, but rather m'ore
>akin to a fullness that includes all things.
tx J - this is clear
>
>w'hen Wu doesn't mind,
>Yu matters.
<G>
musician
musician
the same place that the flame from a candle goes when you blow it out
;-)
musician
musician
I had to read this one a couple times through, but I finally got it
tx Z
>
>
musician