Jim Grey in hot water
mwhaught
moment, Grey's questions were totally inappropriate. The event was a
celebration, not an inquesition.
-mwh
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
GolotaGuy
By BEN WALKER
.c The Associated Press
ATLANTA (Oct. 25) -- An aggressive NBC interview of Pete Rose moments after his
triumphant return at the World Series outraged viewers across the country --
and even offended players who watched it from the top step of the dugout.
Switchboards at network affiliates nationwide were swamped with telephone calls
Sunday night protesting reporter Jim Gray's questioning of Rose about his
banishment from baseball.
Rose had just received the longest ovation of any member of the sport's
All-Century team announced prior to Game 2 at Turner Field when Gray started a
live interview in front of the New York Yankees dugout.
Gray asked Rose, banned in 1989 for gambling, why he hasn't admitted that he
bet on baseball.
"I'm not going to admit to something that didn't happen,'' said Rose,
baseball's career hits leader. "I know you're getting tired of hearing me say
that. It's too festive a night to worry about it.''
Gray, refusing to change the subject, said the commissioner's office had strong
evidence.
"I mean, show it to me, where is it?,'' Rose asked.
Responded Gray: "But you agreed to a ban from baseball for life.''
"It also says I can apply for reinstatement in one year. I was looking forward
to that day,'' Rose answered.
Rose applied to commissioner Bud Selig two years ago and has not gotten a
formal response.
"It's only been two years. He's got a lot of things on his mind,'' Rose said.
Selig has indicated he does not intend to reinstate Rose.
Gray then suggested Rose should perhaps take a different approach by admitting
guilt. Rose said, "You say it hasn't worked, what do you mean?''
Rose seemed surprised by Gray's approach, likening it to a "prosecutor's
brief.''
"You know, I'm surprised you're bombarding me with this,'' he said. "I'm here
to do an interview with you on a great night, a great occasion. You're bringing
up something that happened 10 years ago.''
Gray is known for asking tough questions. He won a Sports Emmy in 1998 for
sideline reporting after his relentless interview of Mike Tyson following the
"Bite Fight'' with Evander Holyfield.
The reaction was swift.
The local NBC affiliate in New York said operators fielded over 600 complaints
about the interview.
In Cincinnati, affiliate WLWT got calls nonstop for two hours after the
interview. After the game, it rebroadcast the interview and got more calls. The
station said some callers held for as long as 30 minutes to express their
opinion.
In Atlanta, WXIA also showed the interview on its newscast and then posted the
telephone number of NBC Sports headquarters in New York, advising viewers to
call if they had a complaint.
Jim Leyritz and several other Yankees stopped to speak with Gray in the walkway
after the game.
"I think it's an embarrassment to your profession,'' Leyritz said. "Pete's done
his time. To come off the field and have that question asked is barbaric. It's
disgraceful. This whole ballclub was angry. If we weren't professionals, we
could say, 'Jim, we don't want to talk to you.'''
On a sports wrapup show on a New York station after the game, Mets pitcher John
Franco said Gray overdid it in the interview and said that 10 years was long
enough for Rose to be punished. Later in the show, Yankees catcher Joe Girardi
agreed that Rose belongs in the Hall of Fame.
Gray brushed off a reporter who tried to ask him about the interview after the
game and left the ballpark without comment. Attempts by The Associated Press to
reach Gray through NBC Sports were unsuccessful.
Asked by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution if the interview with Rose felt
confrontational, Gray replied, "Yes.''
"But all of these questions are questions Rose has heard for 10 years,'' Gray
told the newspaper. "It was an opportunity for Rose to make his case. It's a
shame that's the direction it went.''
"Jim's intent was to try to give Pete Rose an opportunity in a celebratory
atmosphere on a major league baseball field for the first time in 10 years, to
comment on the issues that have kept him out of baseball,'' NBC spokesman Ed
Markey said.
"That was the entire intention. These weren't new questions. They weren't a
surprise. But Jim felt that in this atmosphere, and the ovation and emotion,
that there was an opportunity there for Pete to shed some new light on all
this.''
Golotaguy
Looking for a fight? Check out:
http://www.boxingonvhs.com
Michael Middleton
gets a nice right hand to the chops so he can sue em.
MIKE
"The harder you train in the gym the less you bleed in the ring"
abc
trips when he gets a microphone in his hand asking inapropriate questions
and comments he would never make in a one on one situation in private
because he knows he would get his ass kicked big time. poor guy must have
had a real hard time growing up and getting his lunch money stolen by the
local bully at school. There's a big difference in doing an interview and
doing an interrogation. I hope we never see him on a fight card again and
he can go apply his trade as a replacement host for jerry springer.
Michael Middleton <bgmid...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991025155053...@ng-fw1.aol.com>...
Ryan Wissow
Ryan Wissow
ryanki...@webtv.net
http://members.tripod.com/~kid_smooth/
Wesley White
to be very happy and very proud, and when Rose finally got a chance to
be involved with the game he loved and made us love, he ruined it for
Pete.
http://community.webtv.net/wyteboy/WesleysWebpage
Mark
simple. Usually in the past I have found Gray's approach good, but this
time he carried it way too far. Personally, I think he had a personal
agenda to get recognition for himself. Before I give respect to Gray, I
want to hear a public apology for his tactics in the interview. I saw
incredible cockiness in his attitude, so I won't hold my breath for this
to occur. Talk about ruining a great night in baseball history.
Ryan Wissow
to do now in baseball?
DogO...@webtv.net
event!Did you hear the ovation Pete got?That was great! What a stupid
fucked up way to end a great ceremony.
Slash
Michael Smyth
after the bite was one of the best sports interviews I've ever seen a
journalist accomplish in a tough, intimidating situation. As for the Rose
interview, I think the first question was excellent and the follow-up was
good, but he could have dropped the line of questioning there and moved on
to evening's drama, particularly the lengthy ovation from the fans. Rose got
a warmer reception than Hank Aaron in Atlanta! That's pretty amazing and
Grey should have asked about that. As it is, I still respect Grey despite
some mistakes here.
Mike
d...@cheetah.net wrote in message <38162d7...@news1.cheetah.net>...
> You seem upset. Things have
> a way of working themselves
> out, especially, when it comes
> to people like Gray.
>
> DCI
BoxMuham
have asked one or two reinstatement questions, then moved on.
But Rose doesn't belong in baseball. I agree with Johnny Bench. If you
look into the case, looks like Rose is a bald-faced liar who not only bet on
baseball, but bet on his own team. The FBI experts concluded that Rose's
fingerprints were on the betting slips, and that the signature was also Rose's.
Rose signed the statement: "Peter Edward Rose acknowledges that the
Commissioner has a factual basis to impose the penalty provided herein."
He accepted lifetime banishment to avoid a finding as to whether
he bet on baseball games.
He also showed a lot of selfishness in the last season when he was chasing
Cobb's record. His team was in the penant race, and his batting was poor. He
put himself in the lineup when he had better batters on the bench.
By the way, the rules against betting on baseball are posted on the walls
of every single major and minor league clubhouse in which Rose ever worked.
.
Great baseball player, but a lying sack of shit who bet on baseball. Since
1919, no exceptions to that rule.
Boxmuhammad
d...@cheetah.net
Brian
interviews them. There are plenty of ways to ask tough questions
without using an insulting tone and speaking in a rude style.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Brian
tysn...@csd.uwm.edu wrote:
> Before I give respect to Gray, I
> want to hear a public apology for his tactics in the interview. I saw
> incredible cockiness in his attitude, so I won't hold my breath for
this
> to occur.
Gray says there's nothing to apologize for
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/1999/1024/132080.html
"I don't apologize," Gray told reporters on Monday.
COBALT1914
>I never liked that cocksucker Jim Grey anyway!He fucked up a great
>event!Did you hear the ovation Pete got?That was great! What a stupid
>fucked up way to end a great ceremony.
>
Just think about if Jim Gray was there for the Tyson fight instead of Atlanta
for the Baseball festvities. He would have really showed his ass after the
events of that fight.
Brian Davis
Riverdale, IL
Thirty2Red
>gets a nice right hand to the chops so he can sue em.
>
I sure wish someone would oblige him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
"Bet The Red"
To reply by e-mail, remove the "eonman" at end of my address.
Roastsods
Someone should remind Jim that no one cares about Rose's "alledged" gambling
anymore. This thing is 100 years old. Jim Grey is an arrogant A-hole. Does this
guy think he's saving the world? He's a sports reporter.
mwhaught
Wissow) wrote:
> Where can I read about this interview? And what exactly is Rose allowed
> to do now in baseball?
>
minor league frnchise that is associated with a MLB team. He receieved
a waiver -- so to speak -- for the "All Century Team" event from Bud
Selig, MLB Commissioner.
mwhaught
wrote:
> Grey won an Emmy for his work at Tyson-Holyfield 2. His interview with Tyson
> after the bite was one of the best sports interviews I've ever seen a
> journalist accomplish in a tough, intimidating situation. As for the Rose
> interview, I think the first question was excellent and the follow-up was
> good, but he could have dropped the line of questioning there and moved on
> to evening's drama, particularly the lengthy ovation from the fans. Rose got
> a warmer reception than Hank Aaron in Atlanta! That's pretty amazing and
> Grey should have asked about that. As it is, I still respect Grey despite
> some mistakes here.
>
> Mike
>
situation to handle. *IF* you don't have a preconceived notion of the
answers you are going to extract.
IMO, Grey had the notion he would break Pete like Perry Mason would a
murderer during cross examination. Pete wanted to talk about the event
and pay tribute to *ALL* of the players.
A good journalist knows how to gauge the time and place to ask a hard
question and how to graciously get yourself out of an awkward
interview. Too often I have seen Grey blow it when it came time to use
these instincts.
Ivan Weiss 10042971 VShell
> I think Gray's interview with Pete Rose was a disgrace, plain and
> simple. Usually in the past I have found Gray's approach good, but this
> time he carried it way too far. Personally, I think he had a personal
> agenda to get recognition for himself. Before I give respect to Gray, I
> want to hear a public apology for his tactics in the interview. I saw
> incredible cockiness in his attitude, so I won't hold my breath for this
> to occur. Talk about ruining a great night in baseball history.
Since Gray markets himself by being a prick, he will never apologize.
Ivan Weiss MAGNIFICENT, adj. Having a grandeur or splendor superior
Vashon WA to that to which the spectator is accustomed, as the ears of
an ass, to a rabbit, or the glory of a glowworm, to a maggot.
-- Ambrose Bierce: "The Devil's Dictionary"
GolotaGuy
>for the Baseball festvities. He would have really showed his ass after the
>events of that fight.
>
>
>
>
>Brian Davis
>Riverdale, IL
>
>
just the innappropriatness of the Rose interview that is causing the stir.
Goldenglove
Hopkins? Hopkins told Jim Grey about himself, and then Grey went to Don
King immediately afterward and tried to stir up some funk between
Hopkins, and King. They both told Grey that his tactics wouldn't get a
rise out of them, and that any friction between them would be handled by
them.
Tom Grassia
> to occur. Talk about ruining a great night in baseball history.
What great night in baseball history was this? The announcing of the
All Century Team?
Yeah, I'd waited years for that one.
Regards,
O4 Tom
CHICAG...@webtv.net
whole thing.....!
Ivan Weiss 10042971 VShell
> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Mark wrote:
>
> > I think Gray's interview with Pete Rose was a disgrace, plain and
> > simple. Usually in the past I have found Gray's approach good, but this
> > time he carried it way too far. Personally, I think he had a personal
> > agenda to get recognition for himself. Before I give respect to Gray, I
> > want to hear a public apology for his tactics in the interview. I saw
> > incredible cockiness in his attitude, so I won't hold my breath for this
> > to occur. Talk about ruining a great night in baseball history.
>
> Since Gray markets himself by being a prick, he will never apologize.
Ha! Wrong again. He did apologize.
Aristo
Just now when the game ended, he tried to interview Chad Curtis and he was
quickly shut down, Curtis simply said something like "we as a team decided
to not be interviewed on the field"
Left NBC hanging bigtime... Grey tried to ask a followup only to see Curtis
walking away...
Goldenglove <golde...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:38160C80...@uswest.net...
Nicole Garland
pete rose.I know this is a boxing group but why in the hell shouldnt he
be given a 2nd chance after every sport gives people 2nd and 3rd and 4th
chances? Boxing- Ray Mercer was granted a 2nd chance to fight again
after trying to fix a fight with jesse ferguson by asking him in the
middle of the fight to let him win. Lawrence Taylors crackhead ass just
got nominated to the hall of fame .Why didnt they get kicked out for
life from the sports they love? from what I hear, crack cocaine causes a
lot more crime and senseless murders and armed robberies than does
gambling. Mike Tyson anyone ?No he never got any chances to redeem
himself and he has NEVER done anything as bad as pete rose. Darrell
Strawberry loves them prostitutes while doing lots of cola ,but lets act
like hes a national hero cause he battled cancer and lets give him
another chance also. Same for a yankees pitcher named Steve Howe who got
kicked out of baseball 8 times for coke but was always let back in . Ty
Cobb was a known racist and his plaque shines in the baseball hall of
fame but their are still some idiots who think the greatest hitter who
ever lived should be banned from baseball for life( PETE ROSE). Oh and
just so we dont forget basketball Latrell Spreewell got a second chance
also after putting choke hold on his coach. Even Pete Rose wouldnt
stoop to some of these punks levels who get many chances!!
Mike
Michael Middleton
after his game winning home run tonight, Martin said that as a team the Yankees
have decided not to talk to Jim Grey due to his treatment of Rose. I was
laughing out loud!
Jay
ass up in the middle of an interview!!! hehe :)
Ivan Weiss 10042971 VShell <iv...@accessone.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.99102...@blaze.accessone.com...
Michael Middleton
Roastsods
>after his game winning home run tonight, Martin said that as a team the
>Yankees
>have decided not to talk to Jim Grey due to his treatment of Rose. I was
>laughing out loud!
>
>MIKE
I saw it and it was AWESOME. I hope more people do the same thing that Curtis
did.
-Chuck
d...@cheetah.net
<iv...@accessone.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 26 Oct 1999, Ivan Weiss 10042971 VShell wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999, Mark wrote:
>>
>> > I think Gray's interview with Pete Rose was a disgrace, plain and
>> > simple. Usually in the past I have found Gray's approach good, but this
>> > time he carried it way too far. Personally, I think he had a personal
>> > agenda to get recognition for himself. Before I give respect to Gray, I
>> > want to hear a public apology for his tactics in the interview. I saw
>> > incredible cockiness in his attitude, so I won't hold my breath for this
>> > to occur. Talk about ruining a great night in baseball history.
>>
>> Since Gray markets himself by being a prick, he will never apologize.
>
>Ha! Wrong again. He did apologize.
>
>Ivan Weiss
Ivan,
How was the apology phrased?
DCI
d...@cheetah.net
>Is it me, or did the Yankees just Dis Jim Grey?
>
>Just now when the game ended, he tried to interview Chad Curtis and he was
>quickly shut down, Curtis simply said something like "we as a team decided
>to not be interviewed on the field"
>
>Left NBC hanging bigtime... Grey tried to ask a followup only to see Curtis
>walking away...
>
Nothing wrong with good old
fashioned "stone out." People
are not free to be grilled in
a public entertainment/sport
forum just because someone
like Gray has unilaterally
decided to "ask the tough"
questions.
DCI
Alejandro Olague
IIRC, he explained why he asked those questions, saying that he was
trying to give Rose a proper forum to apologize for his betting on pro
baseball, and that he apologized if he drew it out too long and ruined
the moment. It wasn't directed at Rose, IMO.
Alejandro
TheAwesome1
this boring game) and refused to say anymore to Rose.
Great publicity stunt for NBC to judge the viewership....
In article <A8cWOFxAOiiZaQ...@4ax.com>,
--
Managing Editor, The GameMasterOnline
http://www.GameMasterOnline.com
The Best Source of Gaming Info & it's FREE!
Brian
TheAwesome1 <theaw...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> DCI: Basically he apologized to the fans (the few that are watching
> this boring game) and refused to say anymore to Rose.
It was a lame apology at best. He did not apologize at all to Rose for
trying to ruin his night.
> Great publicity stunt for NBC to judge the viewership....
Yeah great publicity stunt, get everyone to hate your reporter. They
figure it worked for Cossell it might work for them.
mwhaught
wrote:
> Is it me, or did the Yankees just Dis Jim Grey?
>
> Just now when the game ended, he tried to interview Chad Curtis and he was
> quickly shut down, Curtis simply said something like "we as a team decided
> to not be interviewed on the field"
>
> Left NBC hanging bigtime... Grey tried to ask a followup only to see Curtis
> walking away...
>
very much limit his role. More than a 'dis. Very much a reprimand
from the players.
mwhaught
wrote:
> DCI: Basically he apologized to the fans (the few that are watching
> this boring game) and refused to say anymore to Rose.
>
not boring. Anytime you get that many great athletes on the field at
one time, I enjoy it. IMO, neither was the game boring.
BTW, are you not a baseball fan? Or just an Indians fan. ;-)
> Great publicity stunt for NBC to judge the viewership....
>
Again, I must disagree. It seemed a blatant face saving attempt for
NBC and Jim Gray. Fan repudiation does have its penalties. Baseball
felt that repudiation for several years after the last strike.
Ivan Weiss 10042971 VShell
> >> Since Gray markets himself by being a prick, he will never apologize.
> >
> >Ha! Wrong again. He did apologize.
> >
> >Ivan Weiss
>
> Ivan,
>
> How was the apology phrased?
I just skimmed it. It looked like a prepared statement written by network
PR people. I can't remember exactly; maybe it's posted somewhere.
d...@cheetah.net
<iv...@accessone.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 d...@cheetah.net wrote:
>
>> >> Since Gray markets himself by being a prick, he will never apologize.
>> >
>> >Ha! Wrong again. He did apologize.
>> >
>> >Ivan Weiss
>>
>> Ivan,
>>
>> How was the apology phrased?
>
>I just skimmed it. It looked like a prepared statement written by network
>PR people. I can't remember exactly; maybe it's posted somewhere.
>
>Ivan Weiss
Ivan,
Several have indicated that
it was both a media motivated
interview - give Gray the hard
questions and see what happens -
and a media prepared save-face.
Neither worked. Again, the media
disrespect or understanding of
what is effective reporting and
what is simply tabloid stuff.
DCI
Tom Grassia
> By excluding Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson,they made a mockery of the
> whole thing.....!
We can argue the specifics of who should or should not have been there,
but that's the point. This was just some baseball PR gimmick, not a
huge day in baseball history.
Regards,
O4 Tom
Tom Grassia
> I finally heard the interview this afternoon. In the context of the
> moment, Grey's questions were totally inappropriate. The event was a
> celebration, not an inquesition.
Don't go slamming the INquisition. Even they had some rules of conduct,
and their goal was a bit lofiter than Gray's, I think.
Regards,
O4 Tom
Tom Grassia
> life from the sports they love? from what I hear, crack cocaine causes a
> lot more crime and senseless murders and armed robberies than does
> gambling. Mike Tyson anyone ?No he never got any chances to redeem
> himself and he has NEVER done anything as bad as pete rose. Darrell
> Strawberry loves them prostitutes while doing lots of cola ,but lets act
> like hes a national hero cause he battled cancer and lets give him
> another chance also. Same for a yankees pitcher named Steve Howe who got
> kicked out of baseball 8 times for coke but was always let back in . Ty
> Cobb was a known racist and his plaque shines in the baseball hall of
> fame but their are still some idiots who think the greatest hitter who
> ever lived should be banned from baseball for life( PETE ROSE).
He wasn't banned because gambling is illegal. Hey, in certain states and
certain places, gambling is legal. He committed a crime against baseball.
What Rose did cuts to the heart of the integrity of the game. It can cause
doubt as to whether the game being plaued is honest competition, or in
some way "fixed". Baseball has decided to take a hard line on that, since
such a thing very nearly ruined the sport early in the century.
The way to think of it is like this.
Suppose I'm in college, and I take my final exam while high on crack. The
Professor sees this, and he calls the police. By some miracle, my
crack-addled brain gets an A on the exam. Does the Professor have a reason
to flunk me?
Same me, same school, same exam, and same professor. I show up sober, am
an example fo clean living, but get caught cheating on the exam. I get an
F, and probably kicked out of school.
Which was more heinous, cheating on a test, or walking into class high on
crack?
Legally, the crack toking is.
Cheating, however, cuts right to the heart of why a person is in school,
and gets treated more harshly.
Regards,
O4 Tom
BoxMuham
> Nicole Garland wrote:
>> their are still some idiots who think the greatest hitter who
>> ever lived should be banned from baseball for life( PETE ROSE).
>He wasn't banned because gambling is illegal.
>He committed a crime against baseball.
>What Rose did cuts to the heart of the integrity of the game.
Well said, Tom, but some will never understand that.
Not even Sparky Anderson supported Rose. Johnny Bench and many others
have been extremely critical of Rose. The guy lost all the respect he earned
on the field, and much more.
After a decade, a lot of folks love to forget. But IMO, if you really
love the game, Rose can never be forgiven. The fact that he still lies about
it makes Charlie Hustle seem like Charlie Coward.
I might feel different if Rose had been man enough to admit what he'd done
years ago. Seeing him these days, I'm just embarrassed for him.
Boxmuhammad
boo hoo hoo !
At last !
The voice of reason!
I agree wholeheartedly !!
<19991026002233...@ng-fk1.aol.com>,
boxm...@aol.com (BoxMuham) wrote:
> Grey was salivating like a Pavlov dog during the Rose interview. He should
> have asked one or two reinstatement questions, then moved on.
> But Rose doesn't belong in baseball. I agree with Johnny Bench. If you
> look into the case, looks like Rose is a bald-faced liar who not only bet on
> baseball, but bet on his own team. The FBI experts concluded that Rose's
> fingerprints were on the betting slips, and that the signature was also Rose's.
>
> Rose signed the statement: "Peter Edward Rose acknowledges that the
> Commissioner has a factual basis to impose the penalty provided herein."
> He accepted lifetime banishment to avoid a finding as to whether
> he bet on baseball games.
>
> He also showed a lot of selfishness in the last season when he was chasing
> Cobb's record. His team was in the penant race, and his batting was poor. He
> put himself in the lineup when he had better batters on the bench.
>
> By the way, the rules against betting on baseball are posted on the walls
> of every single major and minor league clubhouse in which Rose ever worked.
> .
> Great baseball player, but a lying sack of shit who bet on baseball. Since
> 1919, no exceptions to that rule.
>
> Boxmuhammad
boo hoo hoo !
boxm...@aol.com (BoxMuham) wrote:
> Tom wrote:
>
> > Nicole Garland wrote:
>
> >> their are still some idiots who think the greatest hitter who
> >> ever lived should be banned from baseball for life( PETE ROSE).
>
> >He wasn't banned because gambling is illegal.
>
> >He committed a crime against baseball.
> >What Rose did cuts to the heart of the integrity of the game.
>
> Well said, Tom, but some will never understand that.
> Not even Sparky Anderson supported Rose. Johnny Bench and many others
> have been extremely critical of Rose. The guy lost all the respect he earned
> on the field, and much more.
> After a decade, a lot of folks love to forget.
Don't they though...
> But IMO, if you really
> love the game, Rose can never be forgiven. The fact that he still lies about
> it makes Charlie Hustle seem like Charlie Coward.
> I might feel different if Rose had been man enough to admit what he'd done
> years ago. Seeing him these days, I'm just embarrassed for him.
Same here !
boo hoo hoo !
No kidding ! But the gimmick worked pretty good. Look at this thread and all
the other people who got their panties in a bunch over it. Poor Pete Rose.
boo hoo hoo !
Rose should have stayed home. imo
> Regards,
>
> O4 Tom
Timo...@webtv.net
Gray is a dick and sometimes I think he gets shitty with people in hopes
he gets a nice right hand to the chops so he can sue em.
I sure wish someone would oblige him.
----------------------------------------------
---------------------
Maybe Grey should interview pro wrestler David "Doctor D" Shultz.
Several years ago 20/20 reporter John Stossel did an interrogation of
Shultz. 20/20 was on a "righteous mission" to show the world that
wrestling was fake.
Stossel first said he was going to ask a few "standard questions". But
instead he made a statement, in an arrogant and combative manner.
Stossel said, "I think this is fake."
Shultz responded, "You think this is fake?" And then slapped Stossel
upside his head. Shultz then said, "Was that fake?"
Ryan Wissow
BET AGAINST HIS OWN TEAM. If he bet on his team to win, I'd have no
problem with that whatsoever. Dont football players bet on football?
That would be no different then a baseball player betting on a baseball
game, AS LONG AS IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH POINT SHAVING OR BETTING
AGAINST YOUR OWN TEAM. Who cares if he lied about it. I'd lie about it
to, if I thought I was gonna get fucked with over it. And quite frankly,
most people dont give a rats ass if Rose did bet on baseball or not.
It's been 10 years already, give the guy a break. The Hall of Fame isnt
a place to judge whethe or not someone is a "swell" guy. If that were
the case, Ty Cobb wouldnt be in there, that's for damn sure! I think
that Rose's accomplishments speak for themselves, and if they wanted to
kick him out of being actively involved in baseball, that's one thing,
but I think it's wrong to keep him out of the Hall of Fame. All because
there are rules established, doesnt automatically mean that those rules
arent stupid rules, depending on the details of each situation they are
applied to.
Ryan Wissow
ryanki...@webtv.net
http://members.tripod.com/~kid_smooth/
Dannews
his team to win and managed a little differently to get the win, like overuse a
reliever in a situation when he might give him more rest, or something along
those lines in the regular season when managers have to keep their eye on the
big picture as well as the specific game? I'm not saying he did it, just
pointing out that even betting on his team to win is a problem.
Tom Grassia
> Personally, I dont care if Rose did bet on baseball, AS LONG AS HE DIDNT
> BET AGAINST HIS OWN TEAM. If he bet on his team to win, I'd have no
> problem with that whatsoever.
Hi, I'm Pete Rose, and you're my ace reliever Ryan.
I bet on us to win today..hooray! Yesterday, you pitched 4 innings in
relief, to help us win agains tthe Mets.
We're playing the Cardinals today, and we're winning by one run, it's the
6th inning. I'm going to put you in, since you're the best arm I have in
the bullpen. I bet we'd win, and you're the best shot at getting us to
win. Of course, nearly any sane person on earth would have you not
available to pitch today. Asking you to pitch another 2 or 3 innings so
soon can lead to putting a ton of stress on your arm. You'd be more likely
to be injured, and that injury would more likely be of the more serious
type. This is known as "screwing up someone's career".
Now, I don't bet on every game we play in. We lose three games that I
don't bet on, then win a game I had some money on. You didn't pitch in
those three games, but you did get a save in the game I bet on.
Did I keep you out of the game, because I wasn't betting on it, or because
you needed rest? Did I not bet on those games, knowing we would lose? Did
I do A and B, in order to get better odds on the game I did bet on?
Those are the problems that come up when allowing a manager to bet his team
to win. It comes down to a bet being for one game, where the season is
162. Is he sacrifcing a season, or a few players, for those short term
bets? I doubt you could "prove" any of that stuff did happen, or was
intended if Rose bet on his own team to win. However, it's the whole smell
of improopriety that would damage the game. That's why the rule is in
place.
> Dont football players bet on football?
That's a question for the people in Akron to talk about, not the folks in
Cooperstown.
>
> That would be no different then a baseball player betting on a baseball
> game, AS LONG AS IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH POINT SHAVING OR BETTING
> AGAINST YOUR OWN TEAM.
> Who cares if he lied about it. I'd lie about it
> to, if I thought I was gonna get fucked with over it.
I hear what you're saying, but Rose /knew/ what would happen if he did
what he did. He did it anyway. Sure I can understand him lying about it,
but that doesn't make it right. At the same time, this guy was a great fan
of the game, and a great historian of it. He perfectly well understood
what happened with the Black Sox. He knew about the warning from his first
day in minor league baseball. But he didn't care. If he was an addicted
gambler, why did he have to bet on baseball? Couldn't betting on every
other sport known to man satisfy his urge? People cry that he should be
shown some respect by baseball for his accomplishments. However, Pete Rose
showed no respect for baseball with his actions. For that reason, he
should never be reinstated.
Regards,
O4 Tom
GARY NICHOLS
shed one tear for him. he thought, and incorrectly, that because he was
"pete rose"
that he was bigger than baseball. he ripped off
the bookies in the cincinnati area for years and
they did nothing about it because of who he was. when he got involved
with book makers
in the ny area, it came back and bit him. i have
read that rose also treated the fans that paid his
salary like they were crap, especially kids. he
still will not admit he blew it all to this day, so the hell with him.
let him stay banned. i was a
reds fan from shortly after birth, and have no
respect for him at all. a great player yes. but
a scum as a human being. in the sixties two
football players were suspended for a year for
betting on their own teams. one was alex karras, the other i believe was
frank gifford. they are both in the hof today, which is in canton, not
akron! gray is a jerk and probably
should have kept his mouth shut, considering
the ceremony and all, but come on folks, pete
rose being on the all-century team ahead of
roberto clemente. now thats a laugh!
gary
d...@cheetah.net
wrote:
>
>Hi, I'm Pete Rose, and you're my ace reliever Ryan.
>
>I bet on us to win today..hooray! Yesterday, you pitched 4 innings in
>relief, to help us win agains tthe Mets.
>
>We're playing the Cardinals today, and we're winning by one run, it's the
>6th inning. I'm going to put you in, since you're the best arm I have in
>the bullpen. I bet we'd win, and you're the best shot at getting us to
>win. Of course, nearly any sane person on earth would have you not
>available to pitch today. Asking you to pitch another 2 or 3 innings so
>soon can lead to putting a ton of stress on your arm. You'd be more likely
>to be injured, and that injury would more likely be of the more serious
>type. This is known as "screwing up someone's career".
>
CLIPPED
Now you've described a conspiracy.
DCI
The Sanity Cruzer
> Now you've described a conspiracy.
I disagree DCI. When the manager (Rose, in this story) tells the pitcher to
go into the game, the pitcher generally does as he's told or faces the
consequences. The manager does not need to "conspire" with anybody in this
case IMO.
TSC
d...@cheetah.net
wrote:
Gary,
I understand your outrage. Roberto
Clemente gave back to the community,
his time, his money, and finally his
life.
DCI
d...@cheetah.net
Another thought: A fighter
is working his strategy in
the ring. Between rounds, his
trainer says, "Not tonight,
let's take the money and call
this one fight." What would
you opine?
DCI
d...@cheetah.net
<sanity...@cruzers.com> wrote:
>d...@cheetah.net wrote in message <3819c73...@news1.cheetah.net>...
>
>> Now you've described a conspiracy.
>
>
>I disagree DCI. When the manager (Rose, in this story) tells the pitcher to
>go into the game, the pitcher generally does as he's told or faces the
>consequences. The manager does not need to "conspire" with anybody in this
>case IMO.
>
> TSC
>
TSC,
Good point! But if you read the
rest of the post, the pitcher is
aware, according to the storyline,
as to what it all means money-wise.
DCI
Bob Sheehy
Karras for betting on NFL games. IIRC, neither player bet on a game
involving his own team.
Donn, Tom's scenario with Rose would be tantamount to Eddie Futch
sending Frazier out for a fifteenth round in Manila because he had bet
on him to win.
Nicole Garland
everyone knew it . Did they let him ever box again??? Fuck yes they did
And if he would have gotten lucky and won the heavyweight championship
of the world after he tried to bribe ferguson in to losing,this would
have been a travesty after how the baseball people treated Rose. They
give all these piece of shit sportstars second chances like
Mercer,Tyson,Darrell Strawberry, Spreewell,Roberto Alomars tons of
chances but want to continue to keep Rose out of the Hall of Fame.
Should Tyson be kept out of the boxing Hall of fame? Should crackhead
Lawrence Taylor be kept out? Should Ray Mercer have been allowed to
fight again? Should Tyson have been allowed to fight again,and again,and
again? Pete has paid his dues and deserves to be inducted in the hall of
fame.I read where people have stated that hes a piece of shit and this
and that about him but compared to what the people I have mentioned
earlier in this post did,Pete was a saint . later Mike
CHICAG...@webtv.net
his face...
<heh>
BoxMuham
>Personally, I dont care if Rose did bet on baseball, AS LONG AS HE DIDNT
>BET AGAINST HIS OWN TEAM. If he bet on his team to win, I'd have no
>problem with that whatsoever.
Yo Ryan, think about this a little more. Rose did NOT bet on every game to
win. However, when he did bet, which was very frequently, he bet on his team
to win. THAT IMMEDIATELY compromises the integrity of the team and the game.
When you're betting only on some games and not all, as a player-manager you're
going to play certain people to pitch, certain people to hit, etc., based on
whether or not you have a bet in on that game. You're going to save some guys
for the next "betting" game when you need them to win a non-betting game the
day before. It doesn't matter at all whether he bet to win or lose. To bet on
some games to win (vs. all games to win) is disgraceful. Cabesh?
Boxmuhammad
d...@cheetah.net
wrote:
This is not the first time nor
the last time things like this
happen.
There is an ethical consideration
somewhere in all this stuff. I'm
just sure anyone can discuss it
without getting somewhat mean-
spirited.
Eddie Futch is an ethical man.
What would have been done had Joe
Frazier bet on himself and told
Eddie Futch? Futch would've thrown
the towel a second after the bell
rung.
DCI
Tom Grassia
> Good point! But if you read the
> rest of the post, the pitcher is
> aware, according to the storyline,
> as to what it all means money-wise.
Dear Mr. Donn,
That was not my intent. If it appears that I was saying the pticher (or any
other player) knew that his coach was betting ont he team, I apologize.
At the end of the post, where I left several questions such as "Was x playing
because this game aws bet on" "Did that three game losing streak occur to get
better odds on a future game" etc, these are things that people will wonder, if
it ever came out a manager was betting on his team.
That sort of uncertainty of a manager's commitment to making the best decisions
for his team, is exactly the reason the betting on yoru own team ban is in
effect in baseball.
It's why saying, "It would be ok, if he bet on his team to win" isn't really
correct.
Regards,
O4 Tom
GARY NICHOLS
not frank gifford that was suspended in 1963.
my mistake. however, in a search on hornung
and karras it does indicate that in fact, they did
bet on their own teams. today they probably
would get banned for life,in 1963 they got one
year. as i said, as a kid i loved the reds and pete rose. as i got older
and read more on him,
the less i cared for him. at this point, i find him
to just be a lousy human being, and if i ran across him today, i would
let him know it! and
yes dci, clemente was not only a great player
but a great man as well. he is really under-
appreciated to this day. rose may have better
stats, but i would rather have clemente in right
field with the game on the line. his not being on
the all-century team just shows the ignorance
of the people that voted for it.
gary
Michael Haught
Michael Middleton <bgmid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991030223150...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> If you want to see Pete come to Tampa, I see him at least a couple of
times a
> month, usually at Hooters in North Tampa. He and his girlfriend are
building a
> house in an affluent area nearby. Pete is a boxing fan and has always been
very
> cordial when I have seen him.
>
> MIKE
>
Girlfriend? Do you mean his second wife? Do not recall her name at the
moment.
-mwh
Michael Haught
> Who really cares what he did as a manager? He should be put in the Hall of
Fame
> for what he did as a player. Its what you do on the field that matters, as
a
> player. He may be an ass, may have bet as a manager, but he does not
belong in
> the Hall of Fame for managing, he belongs for being one of the best
hitters to
> ever pick up a bat. If character was a factor in getting in the hall of
fame,
> guys like O. J. Simpson, Lawrence Taylor, Ty Cobb, and about a hundred
others I
> could name would have never made it.
>
This whole Pete Rose subject is a hard one for me to find my own answers.
Growing up, Pete Rose was the player that I worshipped and tried to emulate
when I played ball (the other kids called me "Pete Moss" for my feeble
attempts to be another Pete<g>). I admired everything he did on the field.
In his personal life, he disappointed me and many other fans many times.
When he was banned from baseball, it was the worst time for me as a sports
fan.
I agree with your point in your other post, he deserves to be in the HoF for
his on field accomplishments. I also believe that MLB keeps its head in the
sand regarding the vulnerabilities of a drug involved player committing drug
felonies being similar to a person gambling on baseball. IMO, if you're
involved in serious criminal activity, you are just as vulnerable to
altering a game for the gamblers as you would if you were involved in
gambling only. Bookies and drug dealers live in the same economic
community.
In that regard, I think MLB definitely does have a convenient double
standard. And I felt this way before the Pete Rose situation reared itself.
-mwh
Michael Middleton
for what he did as a player. Its what you do on the field that matters, as a
player. He may be an ass, may have bet as a manager, but he does not belong in
the Hall of Fame for managing, he belongs for being one of the best hitters to
ever pick up a bat. If character was a factor in getting in the hall of fame,
guys like O. J. Simpson, Lawrence Taylor, Ty Cobb, and about a hundred others I
could name would have never made it.
MIKE
"The harder you train in the gym the less you bleed in the ring"
Michael Middleton
month, usually at Hooters in North Tampa. He and his girlfriend are building a
house in an affluent area nearby. Pete is a boxing fan and has always been very
cordial when I have seen him.
MIKE
warma...@my-deja.com
> It's why saying, "It would be ok, if he bet on his team to win" isn't
really
> correct.
>
> Regards,
>
> O4 Tom
There is nothing wrong with betting on or against your team. On my 3rd
tour in Nam I bet my crew that no one but myself would survive. They
were a sorry bunch. They all died and I won the bet. To bad there was
no one to collect from. Them assholes died with out paying their
debt.WarMan
warma...@my-deja.com
DogO...@webtv.net wrote:
> I never liked that cocksucker Jim Grey anyway!He fucked up a great
> event!Did you hear the ovation Pete got?That was great! What a stupid
> fucked up way to end a great ceremony.
>
> Slash
Listen you little shit licking draft dodging loser. I killed little
girls like you in 2 different wars. Warman
warma...@my-deja.com
bgmid...@aol.com ( Michael Middleton) wrote:
> MIKE
> "The harder you train in the gym the less you bleed in the ring"
WarMan"The more you run through the jungle the more blood you see"
Patrick Kehoe
Just briefly... as the ultimate REDS fan here on RSB, I should add I was Johnny
Bench while you were Pete Rose and look where we ended up... both of us on the
all century team... screw the HALL... Rose made all-century and is the king of
the hits... or you are Mike... or the person you never became because you never
could have been... whatever...
Patrick Kehoe
Michael Haught wrote:
> Michael Middleton <bgmid...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:19991030222615...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> > Who really cares what he did as a manager? He should be put in the Hall of
> Fame
> > for what he did as a player. Its what you do on the field that matters, as
> a
> > player. He may be an ass, may have bet as a manager, but he does not
> belong in
> > the Hall of Fame for managing, he belongs for being one of the best
> hitters to
> > ever pick up a bat. If character was a factor in getting in the hall of
> fame,
> > guys like O. J. Simpson, Lawrence Taylor, Ty Cobb, and about a hundred
> others I
> > could name would have never made it.
> >
Tom Grassia
> There is nothing wrong with betting on or against your team. On my 3rd
> tour in Nam I bet my crew that no one but myself would survive. They
> were a sorry bunch. They all died and I won the bet. To bad there was
> no one to collect from. Them assholes died with out paying their
> debt.WarMan
If I gave you money, would you go away?
Maybe I can pa yoff their bet. What was it, 3 chicklets and a k-ration?
Regards,
O4 Tom