RFD: soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
R.Wagenaar
unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
[ English version; See below for the translation in Afrikaans. ]
This is a request for discussion (RFD) of the creation of the USENET
newsgroup soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans. It contains suggested
group name, one-line description, status and charter.
This article is crossposted to news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,
soc.culture.south-africa, soc.culture.belgium, soc.culture.netherlands,
nlnet.taal, za.misc, and za.net.misc. It's also sent to the mailing lists
afri...@unseen.aztec.co.za and lowla...@u.washington.edu
The discussion will take place in the 'NEWS.GROUPS' newsgroup. All follow-
up posts should be posted to that group. Initial suggestions for the group,
status and charter are given below. These suggestion are subject to change
and review as soon as further opinions are provided. Anyone interested in
this proposal is encouraged to participate in the discussion.
The discussion will continue for 21 days from the date this RFD becomes
official. If there is agreement, a Call for Votes (CFV) will be announced.
GROUP NAME:
-----------
soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
ONE-LINE DESCRIPTION:
---------------------
the Afrikaans language and all of its speakers, including those in Namibia
STATUS
------
Unmoderated
BACKGROUND:
-----------
Due to South Africa's and Namibia's recent past, Afrikaans speakers have
been isolated from most of the rest of the world in many different ways.
One way was the cultural boycotts by numerous governments. In particular,
the boycotts by the Dutch and Belgian governments reduced the number of
cultural and lingual exchanges between Afrikaans speakers and the Dutch
speaking people. Now new multi-cultural governments are in place in South
Africa and Namibia, and it has become time to renew these and other ties.
For this purpose, as a start, a soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans newsgroup
would be a perfect platform.
South Africa has its own za.* newsgroup hierarchy, in which the articles
are predominantly written in English. A za.culture.afrikaans newsgroup
could be an alternative for a soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans newsgroup,
for those who want to hold discussions in Afrikaans. But, the za.* newsgroup
are less well known outside South-Africa, and in some cases less accessible
than the USENET news-groups, therefore this proposal has been issued.
Soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans will have a partial overlap with
soc.culture.south-africa in discussions about southern Africa.
The soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans newsgroup is intended not so much as a
substitute but more as an addition to this newsgroup, and serves also
as a place on the internet for Afrikaans speakers from Namibia.
The Afrikaans mailinglist is already a big succes, and we expect to reach
even more people with a USENET newsgroup. It is our intention to make a
gateway between the Afrikaans mailinglist and the proposed group.
PROPOSED CHARTER:
-----------------
Afrikaans is a language spoken largely in southern Africa (predominantly
South Africa, Namibia and to a lesser extent Zimbabwe), although small
communities of Afrikaans-speaking people are found in other parts of the
world. Afrikaans evolved in southern Africa from the interaction between
17th-century Dutch, African languages, Portuguese, Malay and other
influences. Although it is a uniquely African language, it is nonetheless
classed as a member of the Germanic languages, and is similar to the
Dutch language, which is predominantly spoken in the Netherlands
and a large part of Belgium. There is a substantial body of Afrikaans
literature, and it is used extensively in the written and electronic media.
There are a number of tertiary educational institutions in South Africa in
which Afrikaans is the medium of instruction.
In this proposed charter, the term 'Afrikaans speakers' will be taken to
include all people who speak Afrikaans, regardless of race, colour, creed
or national origin, whether they consider themselves to be 'Afrikaners' or
not. This includes both mother-tongue speakers and others, including
those who speak 'alternative' Afrikaans.
The proposed newsgroup soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans is intended as a
platform for all information about speakers of the Afrikaans language
all information and discussion about speakers of the Afrikaans language
and the language itself. This means all discussions about social, cultural,
political, economical, historical, geographical and other issues that are, in
one way or the other, related to Afrikaans speakers, Afrikaans or the southern
African region are welcome in this newsgroup.
Also, it is hoped that soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans will be a meaningful
means for contact between Afrikaans speakers at home and abroad, and between
the Afrikaans speakers, including those who speak 'alternative' Afrikaans, and
and all other persons interested in the Afrikaans language.
RULES:
------
Soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans will be an unmoderated newsgroup, so anyone
will be able to post to this newsgroup. Being free to post should also mean
being responsible for what you post. All articles posted should have
'something' to do with southern Africa, Afrikaans or Afrikaans-speaking
people, however remotely. Insults, "flames" or unnecessary criticism of a
group or a person is strongly discouraged. Please read the netiquette
rules in news.announce.newusers before posting your first article to any
newsgroup, and try to stick to them whenever posting articles.
LANGUAGES:
----------
Primarily, postings in Afrikaans (also in 'alternative' Afrikaans), Dutch and
English can be expected. However, postings in any other language are also
welcome to facilitate the exchange of information with the largest possible
audience.
DISCUSSION PLACE:
-----------------
The discussion will take place in news.groups, a Usenet news group. All
comments regarding this proposal should be posted in news.groups (note the
Followup-To line at the beginning of your message).
DISCUSSION PERIOD:
------------------
The discussion period will last for 21 days, starting from the moment this
RFD becomes official. If there is agreement, a Call for Votes (CFV) will
be announced, which will last for another 21 to 31 days.
THIS RFD IS INITIATED BY:
-------------------------
Robert Wagenaar st90...@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
VERSOEK VIR BESPREKING: SOC.CULTURE.SOUTH-AFRICA.AFRIKAANS
-----------------------------------------------------------
(In hierdie dokument dui die " -karakter voor 'n letter 'n deelteken aan
(bv. "e), en die ^ -karakter voor 'n letter dui sirkumfleks aan (bv. ^e)).
VERSOEK VIR BESPREKING
----------------------
Hierdie is 'n Versoek vir Bespreking (VVB) (oftewel "Request for
Discussion" - RFD) vir die skepping van die USENET Nuusgroep
soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans. Dit bevat 'n voorgestelde groepnaam,
enkelre"el beskrywing, status en handves.
Hierdie artikel sal ook aan news.announce.newgroups, news.groups,
soc.culture.african, soc.culture.belgium, soc.culture.netherlands, nlnet.taal,
za.misc en za.net.misc gepos word. Hierdie artikel sal ook gestuur word aan
die poslyste afri...@unseen.aztec.co.za en lowla...@u.washington.edu.
Die bespreking sal in die NEWS.GROUPS nuusgroep plaasvind. Alle
opvolgbesprekings hoort na hierdie groep gepos te word. Aanvanklike
voorstelle vir die groep, status en handves word hieronder uiteengesit.
Hierdie voorstelle is onderworpe aan veranderings en hersiening sodra
verdere opinies ingewin word. Enige persoon wat in hierdie voorstel
belangstel word aangemoedig om aan die bespreking deel te neem.
Die bespreking sal vir 21 dae vanaf die datum van die amptelike plasing
van hierdie RFD voortduur. Indien akkoord bereik word, sal daar dan 'n
Oproep tot Stemme aangekondig word.
GROEP NAAM
----------
soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
ENKELRE"EL BESKRYWING
---------------------
die Afrikaanse taal en alle Afrikaanssprekendes, ook die in Namibi"e
STATUS
------
Ongemodereer
AGTERGROND
----------
Afrikaanssprekendes was, vanwe"e Suid-Afrika en Namibi"e se onlangse
verlede, op verskeie maniere van die res van die wereld ge"isoleer.
Een so 'n wyse was die kulturele boikotte deur verskeie regerings. Die
boikotte van die Nederlandse en Belgiese regerings in besonder, het die
kultuur- en taaluitruiling tussen Afrikaanssprekendes en Nederlands-
spekendes aan bande gel^e. Nou is nuwe regerings inSuid-Afrika en Namibi"e
aan bewind, en het dit tyd geword om hierdie, en ander bande, te hernu. Vir
hierdie doel sal die soc.culture.afrikaans nuusgroep as 'n ideale afspringplek
dien.
Suid-Afrika het sy eie za. nuusgroep hierargie. Hier word artikels
grootliks in Engels geskryf. 'n Za.culture.afrikaans nuusgroep kan as
alternatief vir 'n soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans dien vir diegene wat
besprekings in Afrikaans wil hou. Hierdie voorstel word egter gemaak, aangesien
die za.nuusgroepe minder bekend is buite Suid-Afrika, en is in baie gevalle
minder toeganklik as die USENET nuusgroepe.
Daar sal 'n gedeeltelike oorvleueling wees tussen soc.culture.south-africa.
afrikaans en soc.culture.south-africa in besprekings rakende suidelike Afrika.
Die bedoeling van die soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans nuusgroep is nie
soseer om as 'n plaasvervanger vir hierdie groep te dien, maar aanvullen
daartoe, ook as een plaas op internet vir die afrikaanssprekendes in Namibi"e.
Die Afrikaanse poslys is al 'n groot sukses, en ons denk met 'n USENET
nuusgroep nog meer mense te bereik. Ons het die plan om 'n "gateway"
te maak tussen die Afrikaanse poslys en soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans.
VOORGESTELDE HANDVES
--------------------
Afrikaans is 'n taal wat grootliks in suidelike Afrika gepraat word
(hoofsaaklik in Suid-Afrika, Namibie en tot 'n mindere mate Zimbabwe),
alhoewel klein Afrikaanssprekende gemeenskappe elders ter wereld
voorkom. Afrikaans het in suidelike Afrika ontstaan as gevolg van die
wisselwerking tussen 17de-eeuse Nederlands, Afrika-tale, Portugees,
Maleis en ander invloede. Alhoewel dit 'n taal eie aan Afrika is, word
dit nogtans beskou as 'n lid van die Dietse taalgroep, en is soortgelyk
aan die Nederlandse/Vlaamse taal wat in Nederland en groot dele van
Belgi"e gepraat word. Daar is 'n omvangryke Afrikaanse letterkunde, en
die taal word wyd in die gedrukte en elektroniese media gebruik. Daar
is 'n aantal inrigtings vir tersi^ere onderrig waar Afrikaans die
voertaal is.
In hierdie voorgestelde handves, sluit die term 'Afrikaanssprekendes'
alle mense wat Afrikaans besig in, ongeag van ras, kleur, geloof of
nasionale oorsprong, en is nie beperk tot diegene wat hulself as
'Afrikaners' beskou nie. Dit sluit moedertaalsprekers en andere in,
ook die sprekers van die sogenaamde 'alternatiewe' Afrikaans.
Die bedoeling is dat die voorgestelde nuusgroep soc.culture.south-africa.
afrikaans sal dien as 'n gepreksforum vir alle inligting aangaande suidelike
Afrika, Afrikaanssprekendes en die Afrikaanse taal. Dit beteken dat
alle besprekings rakende sosiale, kulturele, politieke, ekonomiese,
geskiedkundige, geografiese en ander sake wat op een of ander wyse
verband hou met Afrikaanssprekendes, Afrikaans of suidelike Afrika,
verwelkom sal word in hierdie nuusgroep.
Dit word verder begeer dat soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans 'n betekenisvolle
middel van skakeling tussen Afrikaanssprekendes tuis en in die
buiteland sal wees, en tussen Afrikaanssprekendes en ander mense
dwarsoor die wereld.
RE"ELS
-----
Soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans sal 'n ongemodereerde nuusgroep wees, dus
sal dit enige persoon vry staan om na hierdie nuusgroep te pos. Vryheid om te
pos beteken egter ook om verantwoordelikheid te aanvaar vir wat u pos.
Alle artikels wat gepos word behoort (hoe verwyder ookal) op een of
ander wyse met suidelike Afrika, Afrikaans of Afrikaanssprekendes
verband te hou. Beledigings, "flames" of onnodige kritiek van 'n groep
of persoon word ten sterkste ontmoedig. Lees asseblief die
"netiquette" re"els in news.announce.newusers voordat u u eerste
artikel aan enige nuusgroep pos, en behou u te alle tye by hierdie
re"els wanneer u artikels pos.
TALE
----
Artikels sal hoofsaaklik in Afrikaans (ook 'alternatiewe' Afrikaans),
Nederlands en Engels wees.
Artikels in ander tale word ook verwelkom om sodoende die uitruiling van
inligting met die wydste gehoor moontlik te bewerkstellig.
BESPREKINGSPLEK
---------------
Die besprekings sal in news.groups, 'n USENET nuusgroep, plaasvind. Alle
kommentaar rakende hierdie voorstel moet na news.groups gepos word (neem
kennis van die Followup-To re"el).
BESPREKINGSPERIODE
------------------
Die besprekingsperiode sal vir 21 dae lank duur, wat met die amtelike
verskyning van hierdie RFD 'n aanvang sal neem. Indien akkoord bereik
word, sal 'n Oproep om Stemme (oftewel "Call For Votes" - CFV) aangekondig
word, wat vir 'n tydperk van 21 to 31 dae sal duur.
HIERDIE VVB GE"INISIEER DEUR:
-----------------------------
Robert Wagenaar st90...@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl
Chris Newport
se9...@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl "R.Wagenaar" writes:
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
OK, you have my support.
--
Chris Newport, The Netix Consultancy, Clevedon, Avon, UK.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. ( big bang theory ).
Tony Eva
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
I'll vote YES for this group. Will the CFV for this group be issued
at the same time as that for soc.culture.afrikaans? There is no point
in both groups existing simultaneously. The CFVs for the two groups
should be run in such a way that only one of the groups is created.
--
Tony Eva | BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, Berkshire, SL6 3RG, UK
ton...@bnr.ca | My opinions only, not BNR's
R.Wagenaar
>se9...@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl (R.Wagenaar) wrote:
>
>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>
>at the same time as that for soc.culture.afrikaans? There is no point
>in both groups existing simultaneously. The CFVs for the two groups
>should be run in such a way that only one of the groups is created.
>
It depends on the outcome of the discussion. If there seems to be a preference
for soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans, then there will only be a CFV for
that group.
Robert Wagenaar
Leiden, the Netherlands
In principle there will only be a CFVcfv for soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans.
Only if the result of the discussion is, that soc.culture.afrikaans is pre-
ferred, than there will be a RFD
amde...@gold.up.ac.za
>From: in...@aztec.co.za (Inus Scheepers)
>Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>Date: Fri, 14 Jul 1995 03:41:16 GMT
>se9...@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl (R.Wagenaar) wrote:
>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>-----8-<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>I appreciate Robert's efforts; obviously there is a need for a group
>to discuss Afrikaans. My problem with creating the newsgroup as
>soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans instead of soc.culture.afrikaans,
>(even if it is a temporary, way-of-the-least-resistance thing) is that
>it denigrates Afrikaans to a second-class culture, if it is not
>allowed to stand up there with the "big" cultures in soc.culture.*.
I agree. Although for many languages each one is restricted to a
particular country, one cannot confine every language to a certain
country. It certainly cannot be done for English, Franch, Spanish, etc.
Afrikaans also falls under this group. However, many against
soc.culture.afrikaans do not want to accept that Afrikaans falls
under this group of intercountry languages. Some of them tryi to
denigrate Afrikaans as you have noted. Some of them are simply not
informed on the use of Afrikaans inside and outside South Africa, as a
mother tongue and as a lingua franca.
>Seeing as there has been not inconsiderable (though severely misguided
>and uninformed) opposition to Afrikaans, apparent reasons being that
>"Afrikaans equals Apartheid", that its speakers should "know its
>place" and that the language only will be accepted after a suitable
>period in which Afrikaans-speakers can slowly regain respectability in
>the eyes of the world, the precedent that is being created, if one
>would be consistent, will put all other South African languages in
>the same category, that of a second-class Usenet culture; something
>one should avoid, to be fair. (Didn't the Zulu nation once defeat the
>mighty English Empire? Then surely they deserve to stand alongside
>soc.culture.english as soc.culture.zulu! Same with Afrikaans.)
>The primary function of the group, IMHO, will be for international
>contact with the speakers and students of the language. Afrikaans
>speakers in South Africa are well served by printed and electronic
>media and local users of the group will probably be few. It is the
>need from abroad for information about the language and culture that
>necessitates the group.
Your words 'speakers and students' sums it up. If only those who were
interested in studying Afrikaans as a language were important, then a
group such as soc.lang.afrikaans would have been sufficient. However,
the abscence of soc.lang.* shows that not only is the FORM of a language
important, but also its CONTENT. And its content is culture! Were it not
for the culture, there would not have been reason to maintain its form.
That is why soc.culture.* is so prevalent! Afrikaans has culturally an
extraordinary position. It was created in Africa to manage both the
eurocentric and the afrocentric cultures long before apartheid was even
thought of!
>If Afrikaans is a valid language, let it stand shoulder to shoulder
>with the other languages of the world.
Afrikaans is not only a valid language, but it allows one to convey the
most simplest and complex ideas. It is used (like english) to dicuss
anything in mathematics, physics, chemistry, geology, botany, zoology, .....
argeology, anthropology, economics, politics, education, philosophy, .....
But is also used to convey the mysteries and falacies of Africa, its
colours and textures, its hopes and strifes, its prayers and swearing, ....
For example, the Afrikaans names for some plants and animals are the best
descriptive one could ever find. It is almost impossible to translate such
names without loosing the meaning. Thus it do stand shoulder to shoulder
with the other languages of the world. However, the fact is that some people
want to push it backwards or downwards, using whatever argument they can lay
their hands on. What their real reasons are, they never tell us.
My real reasons are there for anybody to observe. I love Afrikaans. It is
a great language. In africa one must act fast: spiders, scorpions, snakes,
lions, spears, knives, guns,..... Afrikaans allows one to think fast. In
africa one must endure patiently: climate, soil, life, culture. Afrikaans
allows one to find patience. In africa one needs close companionship:
family, academy, business, sport, wilderness, .... Afrikaans allows one to
express warm friendship. And if Afrikaans were not such a great language
after all, then it would not have been able to convey the bad things of
life. I will not list them. The opponents of Afrikaans usually do it much
better.
>--
>Inus
Best wishes and peace
At de Lange
Pretoria
R.Wagenaar
>se9...@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl (R.Wagenaar) wrote:
>
>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>
>I appreciate Robert's efforts; obviously there is a need for a group
>to discuss Afrikaans. My problem with creating the newsgroup as
>soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans instead of soc.culture.afrikaans,
>(even if it is a temporary, way-of-the-least-resistance thing) is that
>it denigrates Afrikaans to a second-class culture, if it is not
>allowed to stand up there with the "big" cultures in soc.culture.*.
There is one other way to explain this naming: One could also say, that
there is a south-african culture, and that it is served by more than
one newsgroup, to allow easier communication (multi-lingual) threads are a
nice ideal, but not very practical, and providing some structure (if one has
a question about an Afrikaans newspaper, one know where to ask it).
I agree, that there is one fault in my reasoning, and that is, that there
should also be a s.c.s-a.english, to show that the groups are at the same level.
If I can find the time, I will put out an RFD for such a reorganization.
>The primary function of the group, IMHO, will be for international
>contact with the speakers and students of the language. Afrikaans
>speakers in South Africa are well served by printed and electronic
>media and local users of the group will probably be few. It is the
>need from abroad for information about the language and culture that
>necessitates the group.
Incidentally, naming the group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans might
increase international commmunication with Dutch-speakers, because most
of them don't know the name Afrikaans, but know the language under the name
'Zuid-Afrikaans' (South-African).
Inus Scheepers
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
-----8-<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate Robert's efforts; obviously there is a need for a group
to discuss Afrikaans. My problem with creating the newsgroup as
soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans instead of soc.culture.afrikaans,
(even if it is a temporary, way-of-the-least-resistance thing) is that
it denigrates Afrikaans to a second-class culture, if it is not
allowed to stand up there with the "big" cultures in soc.culture.*.
Seeing as there has been not inconsiderable (though severely misguided
and uninformed) opposition to Afrikaans, apparent reasons being that
"Afrikaans equals Apartheid", that its speakers should "know its
place" and that the language only will be accepted after a suitable
period in which Afrikaans-speakers can slowly regain respectability in
the eyes of the world, the precedent that is being created, if one
would be consistent, will put all other South African languages in
the same category, that of a second-class Usenet culture; something
one should avoid, to be fair. (Didn't the Zulu nation once defeat the
mighty English Empire? Then surely they deserve to stand alongside
soc.culture.english as soc.culture.zulu! Same with Afrikaans.)
The primary function of the group, IMHO, will be for international
contact with the speakers and students of the language. Afrikaans
speakers in South Africa are well served by printed and electronic
media and local users of the group will probably be few. It is the
need from abroad for information about the language and culture that
necessitates the group.
If Afrikaans is a valid language, let it stand shoulder to shoulder
with the other languages of the world.
--
Inus
Generic
>>
>>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>>> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>>
>Incidentally, naming the group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans might
>increase international commmunication with Dutch-speakers, because most
>of them don't know the name Afrikaans, but know the language under the name
>'Zuid-Afrikaans' (South-African).
Yes, but including south-africa in the name attracts every loony who wishes
to vent his spleen about race, colour, apartheid. Why not keep the name
simple? I vote for soc.culture.afrikaans or soc.culture.zuid-afrikaans.
I'm only slowly learning the language from my wife. However, she refuses to
read the south-africa newsgroups because of all the nuts who populate the
newsgroup. I vote for anything that reduces those idiots, in any language.
Cheers.
R.Wagenaar
>>>se9...@artemis.wi.leidenuniv.nl (R.Wagenaar) wrote:
>>>
>>>> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
>>>> unmoderated group soc.culture.south-africa.afrikaans
>>>
>
>>increase international commmunication with Dutch-speakers, because most
>>of them don't know the name Afrikaans, but know the language under the name
>>'Zuid-Afrikaans' (South-African).
>
>Yes, but including south-africa in the name attracts every loony who wishes
>to vent his spleen about race, colour, apartheid. Why not keep the name
>simple? I vote for soc.culture.afrikaans or soc.culture.zuid-afrikaans.
Actually, the only reason for this RFD is that there was huge opposition
from people that claimed that naming the group soc.culture.afrikaans was
a new form of apartheid, by making the group seperate from soc.culture.s-a.
>I'm only slowly learning the language from my wife. However, she refuses to
>read the south-africa newsgroups because of all the nuts who populate the
>newsgroup.
She could try the afrikaans mailinglist (afri...@unseen.aztec.co.za),
although it's somewhat male-dominated (but that's true of the entire internet
I'm afraid).
Erland Sommarskog
>Actually, the only reason for this RFD is that there was huge opposition
>from people that claimed that naming the group soc.culture.afrikaans was
>a new form of apartheid, by making the group seperate from soc.culture.s-a.
Not that I agree with that particular argument - that s.c.afrikaans would
imply any sort of apartheid, in fact I find any such opinion ridiculous -
but I'm quite pleased to see the name change. soc.culture.afrikaans just
didn't feel right, because after soc.culture.* I expect country name or
a people designator and "afrikaans" is neither. (Yes, neither is esperanto
or scientists.)
Last time an Afrikaans groups was up, s.c.s-a was still under discussion
and voting. Now that s.c.s-a exists, I think it is excellent idea to put
the group as a subgroup to s.c.s-a in spite of all those speakers in
Namibia. After all, were it only the Namibians I suspect that this would
not a pressing issue... (But what do I know? Maybe there are plentiful
of Namibian netters?)
Erland Sommarskog, som...@enea.se, Stockholm