Redshirts who live...
Lots42
and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
terrorists and Bob defeats them."
I know it's sounds sort of like Mary Sue stories but that's not what I'm
looking for.
Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
Sueish if they tried.
--
"There will always be more carnage, but intact limbs are forever."
- Dave, Narbonic.com
www.horsehockey.net/3/ [ Please give blood ]
Chris Camfield
>Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes good
>and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
Well, the rationale behind Pratchett's "Guards! Guards!" is along these lines.
Chris
_ berge @hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge
>Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
>Sueish if they tried.
Funny, it didn't look Sueish.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Berge
(remove spaces for address)
Therefore since the world has still
Much good, but much less good than ill,
I'd face it as a wise man would,
o_ \ > And train for ill and not for good.
<| ' ,_|
___/_>____o)____ - A.E. Housman, "A Shropshire Lad"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mad Scientist Labs
>Sueish if they tried
I liked the Indigo saga a great deal. But then, I tend to adopt underdog
tales. I also enjoyed Cooper's Time Master trilogy, Geraldine Harris' Four
Citadels, often things nobody's heard of.
Opinion works that way. I think Robert Jordan's boring as hell, but hey.
They're his story.
Best,
Me.
Shaad M. Ahmad
Mad Scientist Labs <thepl...@aol.commandant> wrote:
>>Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
>>Sueish if they tried
>
> I liked the Indigo saga a great deal. But then, I tend to adopt underdog
>tales. I also enjoyed Cooper's Time Master trilogy, Geraldine Harris' Four
>Citadels, often things nobody's heard of.
Hmmph! I could never really get that interested in Indigo -- which I
thought was being Robert Jordan-ish in terms of stretching out the story;
but I did enjoy both of her Time Master trilogies. Predictable, but nice
use of Order/Chaos tropes. By the way, any idea as to who first came up
with the embodiment of Order and Chaos, as opposed to Good/Evil? Is it
Moorcock, or did someone else do this first?
Regards.
- Shaad
r.r...@thevine.net
>Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
>Sueish if they tried.
I must respond to this. The Indigo series is one that I enjoyed. The
first book is probably the weakest in the series, since it sets the
background for everything that goes on after. But the series is all
about how Indigo grows and changes, and the person at the end of the
series is a far cry from the one that starts out.
Rebecca
Tell your troubles to cats,
The night-walking cats,
The black cats of Althea Jane
Ross TenEyck
>Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
>Sueish if they tried.
Really? I read that one -- and I think the next -- several years
back, and I don't remember it being particularly Mary-Sue-ish.
Bad, certainly; but nothing screamed "self-insert" at me.
--
================== http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~teneyck ==================
Ross TenEyck Seattle, WA \ Light, kindled in the furnace of hydrogen;
ten...@alumni.caltech.edu \ like smoke, sunlight carries the hot-metal
Are wa yume? Soretomo maboroshi? \ tang of Creation's forge.
Joe Pfeiffer
> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes good
> and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
It's not written, but I suppose Galaxy Quest would be too obvious?
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair
Ian Braidwood
> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes good
> and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>
> Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
> terrorists and Bob defeats them."
>
> I know it's sounds sort of like Mary Sue stories but that's not what I'm
> looking for.
>
> Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
> Sueish if they tried.
I like the idea, after all in real life it's usually the person in
uniform who saves the day; but then how are you going to establish
that the baddie/creature/eminating froce from the fourth dimension is
actually dangerous?
In a way it's a compliment, because red-shirts must be pretty tough to
be a valid measure of danger when they snuff it.
Regards,
(-: Ian :-)
Lots42
>The Indigo series is one that I enjoyed. The
>first book is probably the weakest in the series, since it sets the
>background for everything that goes on after. But the series is all
>about how Indigo grows and changes, and the person at the end of the
>series is a far cry from the one that starts out.
Huh. Might be worth slogging through the first one then. The character that
starts out is so 'Paint by Number'.
Lots42
>lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) writes:
>
>> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes
>good
>> and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>
>It's not written, but I suppose Galaxy Quest would be too obvious?
Thanks, but I own that movie. It gave me hope that there are other stories like
it out there.
(It's not always that an expendable character gets bumped off. What gets my
goat is when millitary-trained personnel do something damned stupid that gets
them killed)
Lots42
>I like the idea, after all in real life it's usually the person in
>uniform who saves the day; but then how are you going to establish
>that the baddie/creature/eminating froce from the fourth dimension is
>actually dangerous?
>
"Oh my god, Commander! No!"
"Move out of the way, Ensign!"
-beep, beep, beep-
"He's dead, J..URK!"
"BONES!"
CHOMP
Mark Blunden
> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd
> makes good and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>
> Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by
> alien terrorists and Bob defeats them."
Hmm. 'Starship Medic' I haven.t read in ages, but as recall, the premise is
that the entire senior command crew gets killed off early in the book,
leaving the ship's doctor in command.
Doesn't one of the early Seafort Saga novels include a similar path of
promotion for the central character?
--
Mark.
mark.b...@ntlworld.com
* Reality's leaking again
Mark Hanson
news:20020830221028...@mb-fj.aol.com...
> Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
> Sueish if they tried.
Mary Sue?
Mark
Sea Wasp
>
> "Lots42" <lot...@aol.comaol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020830221028...@mb-fj.aol.com..
> > Sueish if they tried.
>
> Mary Sue?
A fanfic term for "self-insert wish-fulfillment character". Taken from
the days of original Star Trek fanfic (early 70s), many of which
featured a character suspiciously like an idealized version of the
(usually female) author who would of course end up in bed with whatever
Trek character was the author's favorite. And probably would also save
the ship, fight off the bad guys, etc. As the self-insert in question
generally had a name identical to or close to that of the protagonist,
eventually these characters came to be identified by the generic female
name Mary Sue. The male equivalent has come to be called a "Marty Sue".
Not all Mary Sues are bad, but as a general rule it's likely that it's
going to turn out ugly. If an author invests that much of themselves in
the character, it's hard for them to permit the character to fail.
There's a particularly hysterical sendup, based on the recent tsunami
of Lord of the Rings fanfics, of the Mary Sue phenomenon, called "Nine
Men and a Little Lady". (don't worry, it's PG rated, nothing
obscene.Except the idea, of course)
http://www.subreality.com/marysue/nmaall.htm
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
Taki Kogoma
to rec.arts.sf.written decree...
Fanfic term for a character which is pretty obviously the author in
period costume. Originated from early Trek fanfic where "Lt. Mary Sue"
gets romantically involved with [series regular] and, more often than
not, saves the ship at some point.
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
quirk @ swcp.com | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
William George Ferguson
>and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>
>Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
>terrorists and Bob defeats them."
>
>I know it's sounds sort of like Mary Sue stories but that's not what I'm
>looking for.
The redshirt doesn't save the day (because only Anita is allowed to do
that) but in the first several Anita Blake books, Hamilton made
serious use of 'kick the puppy' redshirts, starting with the very
first (Guilty Pleasures) and Philip. Hamilton, however, would
alternate whether or not they died, so you could never be sure (I was
dead certain that Detective Tammy was going to be toast in Burnt
Offerings).
--
I think it’s entirely possible that we might try to fool
people hell bent on spoiling our season. We’re deceptive
people. We promote sex and violence and the occult. Frankly,
we’re just not good seeds.
-- Drew Goddard (Bronze Beta 8/28/2002)
David Cowie
>
> There's a particularly hysterical sendup, based on the recent tsunami
> of Lord of the Rings fanfics, of the Mary Sue phenomenon, called "Nine
> Men and a Little Lady". (don't worry, it's PG rated, nothing
> obscene.Except the idea, of course)
>
> http://www.subreality.com/marysue/nmaall.htm
>
http://diaries.diagon.org/
--
David Cowie david_cowie at lineone dot net
So high, so low, so many things to know.
Craig Richardson
<mark.blun...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Lots42 wrote:
>> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd
>> makes good and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>>
>> Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by
>> alien terrorists and Bob defeats them."
>
>Hmm. 'Starship Medic' I haven.t read in ages, but as recall, the premise is
>that the entire senior command crew gets killed off early in the book,
>leaving the ship's doctor in command.
In the same vein, Diane Duane's _Doctor's Orders_, where Kirk tries to
teach McCoy a lesson by leaving him in command on a routine stop, with
expected results (a situation arises, Kirk disappears, and by
Starfleet regs, McCoy can't be relieved without dereliction-of-duty
charges).
--Craig
--
Managing the Devil Rays is something like competing on "Iron Chef",
and having Chairman Kaga reveal a huge ziggurat of lint.
Gary Huckabay, Baseball Prospectus Online, August 21, 2002
Mark Hanson
news:3D70E4...@wizvax.net...
> A fanfic term for "self-insert wish-fulfillment character". Taken from
> the days of original Star Trek fanfic (early 70s), many of which
> featured a character suspiciously like an idealized version of the
> (usually female) author who would of course end up in bed with whatever
> Trek character was the author's favorite. And probably would also save
> the ship, fight off the bad guys, etc. As the self-insert in question
> generally had a name identical to or close to that of the protagonist,
> eventually these characters came to be identified by the generic female
> name Mary Sue. The male equivalent has come to be called a "Marty Sue".
Hm. Learn somethin' new every day, it seems.
Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
(combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
Mark
Mike Scott
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
Philip Jose Farmer was notorious for including characters with his
initials, and varying degrees of resemblance to him, in most of his
works.
--
Mike Scott
Dorothy J Heydt
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
H. Allen Smith wrote, in the early 1950s, a book called
_Rhubarb_, about a cat that inherits all his human's
worldly goods, including a fortune and a baseball team.
It was very successful (I wish I still had a copy) and
was made into a movie.
Smith then wrote a less-successful sequel called _Son of
Rhubarb_. The cat Rhubarb dies at an advanced age and
his trustees are at a loss as to who, if anyone, is his
heir. Someone points out that there's a cat the dead
spit of Rhubarb hanging around his old stomping grounds
from when he was feral. They capture the cat and must
now prove his descent.
It goes to court and the trustees call Mr. H. Allen
Smith as a witness.
Mr. Smith amuses himself by describing himself as
handsome, muscular, charismatic, and downright godlike.
He is, after all, the God of the story. He takes the
stand and states that the cat in question is indeed the
son of Rhubarb. Everyone accepts this, end of episode.
I forget what happens after that.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Dan Goodman
news:akrcpo$klm$1...@bob.news.rcn.net:
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
One of the Amber books has a minor character named Roger, who is rather
like Roger Zelazny in some ways.
Agatha Christie appears in some of her mysteries, under the name Ariadne
Oliver.
David Johnston
> > the days of original Star Trek fanfic (early 70s), many of which
> > featured a character suspiciously like an idealized version of the
> > (usually female) author who would of course end up in bed with whatever
> > Trek character was the author's favorite. And probably would also save
> > the ship, fight off the bad guys, etc. As the self-insert in question
> > generally had a name identical to or close to that of the protagonist,
> > eventually these characters came to be identified by the generic female
> > name Mary Sue. The male equivalent has come to be called a "Marty Sue".
>
> Hm. Learn somethin' new every day, it seems.
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
It wasn't the last time he did that. It became a running gag.
Isaac Asimov put himself in his Darius Just mysteries as comic relief.
William George Ferguson
wrote:
The character "Edgar Rice Burroughs" appeared in Tarzan of the Apes,
Tarzan at the Earth's Core, many, if not most, of the Martian novels,
Pirates of Venus, The Land That Time Forgot, The Moon Maid, and
various others. Various inter-relationship references establish that
it is the same "Edgar Rice Burroughs" who is the nephew of John
Carter, the chronicler of John Clayton, Lord Greystoke, the person
sought out by Carson Napier (because of his interaction with Carter,
Napier, and Jason Gridley), and so forth. It is "Burroughs"
communication with David Innes which fuels the mission in Tarzan at
the Earth's Core.
David Bilek
The reader tosses the book into the wastebasket?
-David
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> > story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> > genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> > named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> It wasn't the last time he did that. It became a running gag.
> Isaac Asimov put himself in his Darius Just mysteries as comic relief.
I was about to mention _Murder at the A.B.A._; were there other
stories about Darius? Asimov also mentions himself in a couple of
the Black Widower stories, usually to poke fun at his ego.
Can't think of any actual SF stories though...
You're not interested in ones where the author claims to be
publishing a manuscript he discovered or to be interviewing the
characters, right? Like the "About the Author" sections in Brust's
Khaavren books (can't wait to see what he does for _Paths_).
--KG
Gene Wirchenko
>Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes good
>and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>
>Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
^^^
>terrorists and Bob defeats them."
^^^
ITYM "McNicoll"?
It sure is good to know McCoy is around, as he will be needed.
>I know it's sounds sort of like Mary Sue stories but that's not what I'm
>looking for.
>
>Speaking of Mary Sue, avoid 'Nemesis Book One Of Indigo'. Couldn't be more
>Sueish if they tried.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
Carl Dershem
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
Asimov made a few appearances in "Murder at the ABA", and got some
laughs out of it.
cd
Richard Todd
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
Well, there's the A. Bertram Chandler story where John Grimes gets sent back
in time and has to persuade A. Bertram Chandler to write more best-selling
Grimes stories to ensure his (Grimes's) continued existence. But that has
the author in the story *as* the author of the series, and perhaps doesn't
count under your rules.
In one of the early Perry Rhodan stories (I think around PR #2 "The
Radiant Dome"), there was a character introduced named Ernst Ellert, an
Austrian science-fiction writer who discovers he has some unusual
psi powers. He has a friend, Johnny, who does sf artwork. The story was
written by Walter Ernsting, an Austrian science-fiction writer whose friend
Johnny Bruck did the cover art for all the German PR stories for many years.
A later story (PR #1111) featured an encounter with a group of eleven
extremely powerful Higher Beings whose unpronouncable names each bore
a suspicious resemblance to the initials of one of the eleven people who were
on the PR writing team at that time.
Craig Richardson
wrote:
>Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
>genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
>named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
It's graphic and not strictly written (despite becoming wordier over
time), but Dave Sim became a major character in "Cerebus". In some
alternate universe where the continuity didn't end with _Church and
State_, that is.
Speaker-to-Customers
> "Mark Hanson" wrote :
>
>> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in
>> the story?
>
> One of the Amber books has a minor character named Roger, who is
> rather like Roger Zelazny in some ways.
>
> Agatha Christie appears in some of her mysteries, under the name
> Ariadne Oliver.
But Ariadne Oliver, with her Finnish detective hero when she confesses she
knows nothing about Finns, is Agatha Christie parodying herself (and Hercule
Poirot) for comic relief. Not quite the same thing.
Paul Speaker-to-Customers
Christopher Henrich
<mpha...@erols.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
>
"Michael Innes" was the pen name under which J. I. M. Stewart wrote
mystery stories, often with a tongue-in-cheek quality. In an early one
(_Appleby On Ararat_ IIRC), after a bizarre plot twist has brought the
detectives from England to the South Pacific, one says to his
colleague,"We might as well be in a novel by Michael Innes." The reply
is something like "Hmph. I lack your acquaintance with the underworld
of literature."
--
Chris Henrich
Dan Goodman
news:akrpfj$1k9h7f$1...@ID-138064.news.dfncis.de:
It's the same thing as the author being in the story, which was the
immediate question. It's not the same thing as a Mary Sue character.
Sea Wasp
> > the days of original Star Trek fanfic (early 70s), many of which
> > featured a character suspiciously like an idealized version of the
> > (usually female) author who would of course end up in bed with whatever
> > Trek character was the author's favorite. And probably would also save
> > the ship, fight off the bad guys, etc. As the self-insert in question
> > generally had a name identical to or close to that of the protagonist,
> > eventually these characters came to be identified by the generic female
> > name Mary Sue. The male equivalent has come to be called a "Marty Sue".
>
> Hm. Learn somethin' new every day, it seems.
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
The current book doesn't have him, but assuming I get two or three more
of my books out, you'll see me show up in some guise or another.
Brian Rodenborn
Mark Hanson <mpha...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:akrcpo$klm$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
There were a few Philip K. Dick stories where he is mentioned. I don't think
he appears onstage though.
Brian Rodenborn
Dorothy J Heydt
><mpha...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>> story?
Oh, I just remembered the Our Gang Stories, as we
called them when they were new.
_The Butterfly Kid_ by Chester Anderson, in which
Chester and his friend Michael and some other hippies
battle blue lobsters from outer space in and around
Greenwich Village.
_The Unicorn Girl_ by Michael Kurland, in which Chester
and Michael and their friend Tom Waters do a lot of
inadvertent dimensional hopping. (This is the one where
they end up in Lord Darcy's universe, and not only do
they meet Lord Gart who is obviously Randall Garret
himself, but Tom Waters, stage magician, meets Sir Thomas
Leseaux, Th.D., theoretical thaumaturgist, and neither
of them notices anything.)
_The Probability Pad_, by T. A. Waters, in which Chester
and Michael and Tom return to Greenwich Village and
battle shape-changing aliens (with a lovely Holmes vs.
Dracula scene).
Keith Morrison
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
Cussler does that in every book. The character isn't always named, but
it's obviously Cussler. What's more, Cussler has taken it to a smarmy,
"Oh, look I'm so clever" level by having Pitt make a comment of finding
the guy familar but not being able to place the face.
--
Keith
Benjamin Adams
@bob.news.rcn.net:
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
Kurt Vonnegut has inserted himself into some of his books
(_Slaughterhouse Five_, _Breakfast of Champions_).
-Ben Adams
Peter Volk
<mark.blun...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Lots42 wrote:
>> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd
>> makes good and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
Wedge Antilles - spear carrier who survived two attacks on Death Stars
- where Luke and Han only did it once each.
Peter
Joe Pfeiffer
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
Ellery Queen comes to mind... excellent detective series (so OT for
this newsgroup, though not this topic) written by a two cousins who
took the pen name of Ellery Queen. Ellery is an author of mystery
stories, and is the detective who solves the cases. It's all written
in the third person, so he is a character in stories written by, um, him.
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
Southwestern NM Regional Science and Engr Fair: http://www.nmsu.edu/~scifair
Gene Wirchenko
[snip]
>Can't think of any actual SF stories though...
>
>You're not interested in ones where the author claims to be
>publishing a manuscript he discovered or to be interviewing the
>characters, right? Like the "About the Author" sections in Brust's
>Khaavren books (can't wait to see what he does for _Paths_).
For the former, what about LOTR?
Steve Coltrin
> >You're not interested in ones where the author claims to be
> >publishing a manuscript he discovered or to be interviewing the
> >characters, right? Like the "About the Author" sections in Brust's
> >Khaavren books (can't wait to see what he does for _Paths_).
>
> For the former, what about LOTR?
Except it doesn't claim to be an MS found by JRRT, just one written by
a protagonist after the action, no?
_The Book of Mormon_ is a better example.
--
Steve Coltrin spco...@omcl.org
I like the idea of Jack Valenti being sodomized by a
methamphetamine-crazed rhinoceros. And I vote. - Adam Thornton
Jerry Brown
wrote:
>Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
>genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
>named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
The K-PAX books by Gene Brewer take the form of case-notes by a doctor
gene brewer. IMO, the film version made a slight improvement by
renaming the character.
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
Neal Stanifer
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
This is a special case, but Tim Powers and James Blaylock have a
mutually-shared character named William Ashbless who refers to them in
some of his own writings. When they wrote of his death, he derided them
as hacks with whom he had a falling-out, trying to write him out of
existence.
Ashbless shows up in several of the authors' novels, but I believe it's
only in the non-novel writings (e.g. _On Pirates_ by William Ashbless)
that he mentions the authors themselves.
Neal
Luke Webber
news:akrcpo$klm$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> Hm. Learn somethin' new every day, it seems.
>
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
Yeah. Kurt Vonnegut Jr did it in _Breakfast of Champions_, which was about
as self-indulgent a piece of fluff as I've ever read, yet still surprisingly
entertaining. Or at least, it was at the time, but I was only about 18 then,
so it might not stand up to rereading.
Luke
Peter Meilinger
show up inside the comic. Usually it's done as a joke, but I
seem to recall Captain America worked as an illustrator for Marvel
comics for awhile there. I have no idea if any actual Marvel
employees showed up in the book, though.
Pete
Neal Stanifer
One of the British comics writers (Grant Morrison, I believe) showed up
in person at the end of the writer's stint on "Animal Man," not only as
himself, but as the writer who was writing the protagonist's life and
was now consigning him to oblivion. When I read this, I wasn't sure
whether to cheer the writer for the gutsy move (He seemed to be saying,
"I'm finished here, and I don't care to have my work bastardized by
lesser lights."), or to chide him for pulling the ladder up behind him.
Either way, while the idea itself (protagonist discovers he's a
fictional character and meets the engineer of his fate in person) was
hardly a new idea, or even a new idea to comics, it was executed in a
style that made it seem momentarily fresh again.
Neal
Konrad Gaertner
>
> the idea itself (protagonist discovers he's a
> fictional character and meets the engineer of his fate in person)
An idea I found to be handled well in Pratchett's "Final Reward".
--KG
James Nicoll
writers could use him and they did, right up to the point the Writer got
writer's block in the middle of combat. Why he didn't type 'WRITER TELEPORTS
TO LAND BEYOND THE STORY' I don't know.
--
"Frankly, Captain, I feel interstellar diplomacy is out of our
depth."
"Ah, hence the nuclear weapons."
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Mark Hanson wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> > story?
>
> This is a special case, but Tim Powers and James Blaylock have a
> mutually-shared character named William Ashbless who refers to them in
> some of his own writings. When they wrote of his death, he derided them
> as hacks with whom he had a falling-out, trying to write him out of
> existence.
That reminds me of the letter to the editor in _The Silent Gondoliers_
where Morgenstern complains about Goldman claiming he's dead. And
that brings us back to the topic with Goldman's comments in _The
Princess Bride_, esp the 25th anniversary edition (in which Steven
King plays a fairly important role).
--KG
Steven Rogers
>It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
>show up inside the comic.
Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue concerning Reed and Sue Richard's
marriage.
Steve
Yoicks! And Away!
Currently reading: Six Days of War: June 1967 and the making of the modern
Middle east by Michael B. Oren.
Peter Meilinger
That twit in Suicide Squad was Grant Morrison? Huh. I cheered when
he died, because he so obviously had no place in the story.
Pete
Geoduck
wrote:
(snip)
>Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
>genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
>named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
>Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
>with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
>(combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
The profilic but fairly obscure British SF author Hugh Walters wrote
himself into his moon-crashing-into-the-earth novel _The Last
Disaster_, calling himself Walter Hughs.
--
Geoduck
http://www.olywa.net/cook
John Pelan
And First Fandom member and publisher Roy Squires appears in
Blaylock's work, as does bookseller Mark Ziesing. (Mark appears under
a different name, but it's obvious to anyone who knows him).
Cheers,
John
Steve Coltrin
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once.
Niven and Pournelle wrote themselves into _Footfall_.
David Silberstein
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>inadvertent dimensional hopping. (This is the one where
>they end up in Lord Darcy's universe, and not only do
>they meet Lord Gart who is obviously Randall Garret
>himself, but Tom Waters, stage magician, meets Sir Thomas
>Leseaux, Th.D., theoretical thaumaturgist, and neither
>of them notices anything.)
>
They're not 100% oblivious:
Tom: "You know, you remind me of someone, but I can't
figure out who."
Sir Thomas: "I have a notion about that. Perhaps
some day I'll tell you."
Lots42
>From: "Mark Hanson" mpha...@erols.com
>Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>story?
There was this 'Choose Your Own Adventure' books where the 'You' character
actually met the author. Said author having written many 'CYOA' books.
P.S. If anyone could tell me the specific name of the book (and it's number in
the series) I'll be eternally grateful and you'll be spared with the invasion
comes.
--
"There will always be more carnage, but intact limbs are forever."
- Dave, Narbonic.com
www.horsehockey.net/3/ [ Please give blood ]
James Gassaway
: On Sat, 31 Aug 2002 13:04:28 +0100, "Mark Blunden"
Who (according to one Star Wars book series) went on to be the commander
of Rogue squadron as a special operations unit before becoming a General
high in the New Republic's fighter command. So he definitely "made good".
:)
Although, doesn't it disqualify someone from being a red shirt if they
survive and make good? Sorta goes againt the definition of "red shirt"
doesn't it?
--
Multiversal Mercenaries. You name it, we kill it. Any time, any reality.
Robert A. Woodward
Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> "Mark Hanson" <mpha...@erols.com> writes:
>
> > Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> > story? I did, once.
>
> Niven and Pournelle wrote themselves into _Footfall_.
But they appear under aliases (I believe that they also show up in
_Lucifer's Hammer as does Don Alderson).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw
Kai Henningsen
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
Two thirds of everything (some 70 novels or so) Karl may wrote, so I
expect a high percentage of Germans qualify. Rather explicit in some, much
less in others (but a certain "Charly" who is known for writing books when
not heroing around isn't all that hard to recognize). Of course, that's
not usually counted as SF - you might argue it's a rather subtle AH in the
(back when it was written) current time, but it certainly wasn't meant as
such.
Kai
--
http://www.westfalen.de/private/khms/
"... by God I *KNOW* what this network is for, and you can't have it."
- Russ Allbery (r...@stanford.edu)
John Duncan Yoyo
} >Peter Meilinger mell...@bu.edu writes:
}
}
}
} >It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
} >show up inside the comic.
}
} Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue concerning Reed and
} Sue Richard's marriage.
Stan and Jack Kirby turn up in an X-Men, somewhere in the nineties,
just after the relaunch of that book in late seventies/early eighties.
The art was Cockrum IMS.
------------------------
John Duncan Yoyo
Stayka deyAvemta
: Hmmph! I could never really get that interested in Indigo -- which I
: thought was being Robert Jordan-ish in terms of stretching out the story;
: but I did enjoy both of her Time Master trilogies. Predictable, but nice
: use of Order/Chaos tropes. By the way, any idea as to who first came up
: with the embodiment of Order and Chaos, as opposed to Good/Evil? Is it
: Moorcock, or did someone else do this first?
Well, try Greek mythology and Kosmos (order) being derived
from some original chaos...
Bb, Stayka
Jens Kilian
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
There are also books where the opposite happens. In Flann O'Brien's
_At Swim-Two-Birds_, the characters rebel against being mistreated,
and beat up the author.
Jens.
--
mailto:j...@acm.org phone:+49-7031-464-7698 (TELNET 778-7698)
http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-464-7351
PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish,
0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake]
Markku Herd
>Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd makes good
>and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
>Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
>terrorists and Bob defeats them."
How about Elizabeth Moon's "Once a Hero", starring the "steady but
mediocre" Lieutenant Suiza?
- MJH
--
"A Unicef clearasil, gibberish 'n' drivel
O Mennen mylar muriel, with a hey derry tum gardol
O Yuban necco glamorene? Enden nytol, vaseline!
Sing hey nonny nembutal."
Sea Wasp
This was SOP for Marvel at times. They often wrote themselves into
the book. I recall one -- it was either Spidey, Thor, or X-Men -- in
which the battle ends up at what I think was Central Park, and the
artist and author of the book are there, with the artist saying, "And
he hits the ground with this incredible --" ***BADOOOM!*** "--...sound
effect..."
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
D E Siegel
>lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) writes:
>
<snip>
>>Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
>>terrorists and Bob defeats them."
>
>How about Elizabeth Moon's "Once a Hero", starring the "steady but
>mediocre" Lieutenant Suiz
Sorry, Esmay Suiza is not a redshirt.
First of all, she has been the viewpoint character though the entire book --
redshirts always seem expendable because they are spearcarriers -- we know
little or nothing about them except fopr their role. When we begin to learn
aboutn them as people, they are not obvious phaserfodder.
Secondly, her competance has been obvious to the reader, if not to herself or
to all of her superir officers.
This story is more of an 'ugly duckling" story than a "redshirt triumphs"
story.
-DES
Chris Farmer
> :>Lots42 wrote:
> :>> Anyone got any suggestions for stories where the expendable gaurd
> :>> makes good and doesn't get chopped up two pages in?
> Although, doesn't it disqualify someone from being a red shirt if they
> survive and make good? Sorta goes againt the definition of "red shirt"
> doesn't it?
given that caveat (surviving and making good actually disqualifies one as a
true red shirt), there is a really good book centered on just such a
concept. Expendable - by James Alan Gardner - is all about what happens to
members of the Explorer Corps aka Expendable Crew Member; and one crew
member in particular. funny, tense, insightful.
Chris
--
note spam blockers in effect: remove ALL underscores
and ALL uppercase letters in my address
Richard Horton
>he...@surukuku.cc.lut.fi (Markku Herd) wrote:
>
>
>
>>lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42) writes:
>>
><snip>
>
>>>Something like: "Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Ensign Bob get kidnapped by alien
>>>terrorists and Bob defeats them."
>>
>>How about Elizabeth Moon's "Once a Hero", starring the "steady but
>>mediocre" Lieutenant Suiz
>
>Sorry, Esmay Suiza is not a redshirt.
Not in _Once a Hero_. But she arguably looks like a redshirt in
_Winning Colors_.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)
Markku Herd
>>Peter Meilinger mell...@bu.edu writes:
>>It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
>>show up inside the comic.
>Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue concerning Reed and Sue Richard's
>marriage.
Not forgetting John Byrne, who personally saved the day when Reed was on
interstellar trial for saving Galactus' life. :-P
snark^
warbled on about "Re: Mary Sues squared" in rec.arts.sf.written <<=
> Cussler does that in every book. The character isn't always named, but
> it's obviously Cussler. What's more, Cussler has taken it to a smarmy,
> "Oh, look I'm so clever" level by having Pitt make a comment of finding
> the guy familar but not being able to place the face.
I've never seen that as smarmy -- it's more in the comic Simpsons mould
where Mr Burns completely fails to remember Homer from the last time they
came up against one another. "Simpson eh? I'll remember that name..."
How did that line of Smithers's go?
Burns: "Who's that man, Smithers?"
Smithers: "That's Homer Simpson sir, one of the monkeys from Sector 4G. In
the past year he's stopped you from becoming governor, almost destroyed the
plant three times over and his wife painted you in the nude."
--
"Bart, don't use the Touch of Death on your sister." -- Marge Simpson
David E. Siegel
A non-SF example:
In _Jimmy the Kid_ by Donald Westlake, the criminals use a crime novel
as their plan outline, usingf a book by "Richard Stark". The author
of that book ("Stark") appears briefly (well we see a letter from him
to his agent, and a reply) also. The joke is that there really is a
popular series of crime novels by 'Richard Stark" which sound much
like the excerpts we are shown. But "Richard stark" is a pen-name of
Donald Westlake.
-DES
Andy Cooke
>
[snip]
> How did that line of Smithers's go?
>
> Burns: "Who's that man, Smithers?"
> Smithers: "That's Homer Simpson sir, one of the monkeys from Sector 4G. In
> the past year he's stopped you from becoming governor, almost destroyed the
> plant three times over and his wife painted you in the nude."
>
>
I could have sworn that it was Sector 7 G.
Okay, my daughter (and I) watches (watch) too much Simpsons ...
--
Andy Cooke
Jeremy Harper
> David Johnston wrote:
> >
> I was about to mention _Murder at the A.B.A._; were there other
> stories about Darius? Asimov also mentions himself in a couple of
> the Black Widower stories, usually to poke fun at his ego.
>
> Can't think of any actual SF stories though...
>
> You're not interested in ones where the author claims to be
> publishing a manuscript he discovered or to be interviewing the
> characters, right? Like the "About the Author" sections in Brust's
> Khaavren books (can't wait to see what he does for _Paths_).
>
>
> --KG
Asimov was in the Azazel stories. He was the guy George told his
stories to and always fleeced at the end.
Jeremy Harper
David Goldfarb
It was _X-Men_ -- Chris Claremont talking to Dave Cockrum, while Phoenix
battles Firelord.
--
David Goldfarb <*>| "Speak softly, drive a Sherman tank
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | Laugh hard, it's a long way to the bank."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- TMBG
David Goldfarb
Markku Herd <he...@surukuku.cc.lut.fi> wrote:
>sroge...@aol.com (Steven Rogers) writes:
>
>>>Peter Meilinger mell...@bu.edu writes:
>>>It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
>>>show up inside the comic.
>
>>Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue concerning Reed and Sue Richard's
>>marriage.
>
>Not forgetting John Byrne, who personally saved the day when Reed was on
>interstellar trial for saving Galactus' life. :-P
No, he didn't. Byrne was transported to the trial in order to chronicle
it, but once there he didn't do anything substantial. It was a nod towards
"Assistant Editors' Month" silliness, but the story would have been the
same without it.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"Come on, characters with super-strength don't
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | *do* inertia! Or leverage."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Dani Zweig
Sea Wasp
>
> In article <3D7392...@wizvax.net>, Sea Wasp <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote:
> >John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
> >>
> >> On 01 Sep 2002 17:44:20 GMT, sroge...@aol.com (Steven Rogers) wrote:
> >>
> >> } >Peter Meilinger mell...@bu.edu writes:
> >> }
> >> }
> >> }
> >> } >It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
> >> } >show up inside the comic.
> >> }
> >> } Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue concerning Reed and
> >> } Sue Richard's marriage.
> >>
> >> Stan and Jack Kirby turn up in an X-Men, somewhere in the nineties,
> >> just after the relaunch of that book in late seventies/early eighties.
> >> The art was Cockrum IMS.
> >
> > This was SOP for Marvel at times. They often wrote themselves into
> >the book. I recall one -- it was either Spidey, Thor, or X-Men -- in
> >which the battle ends up at what I think was Central Park, and the
> >artist and author of the book are there, with the artist saying, "And
> >he hits the ground with this incredible --" ***BADOOOM!*** "--...sound
> >effect..."
>
> It was _X-Men_ -- Chris Claremont talking to Dave Cockrum, while Phoenix
> battles Firelord.
Yes indeed, I can see that one now. Thanks for clarifying.
Mark Atwood
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story?
In Vernor Vinge's recent reading at WorldCon, he had two characters
(living in about 2012) start listing various SFnal "personality
upload" scenarios. He included himself, as well as a fair number of
other authors attending the con, including at least one who was
attending the reading. (I forget which one. (Charlie Stross maybe?))
--
Mark Atwood | Well done is better than well said.
m...@pobox.com |
http://www.pobox.com/~mra
James Nicoll
sucked into the plot at least once. Unfortunately I don't recall how
but I think one of the Earth One villains realised the relationship
between worlds that let the Earth Prime guys accurately write up the
adventures the super types on Earth One and Two without physical
contact.
Man, I miss Earth One and Earth Two and the annual JSA/JLA
team ups.
--
"Frankly, Captain, I feel interstellar diplomacy is out of our
depth."
"Ah, hence the nuclear weapons."
Michael S. Schiffer
news:al56e3$ip0$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>...
> I think the editors over at DC on Earth Prime got directly
> sucked into the plot at least once.
Including one of them (Cary Bates) going mad and becoming the
villain of the story.
Unfortunately I don't recall
> how but I think one of the Earth One villains realised the
> relationship between worlds that let the Earth Prime guys
> accurately write up the adventures the super types on Earth One
> and Two without physical contact.
The adventures supposedly came to the Earth Prime writers in
dreams. (This was also the explanation for how Earth-1's Flash
was able to read the adventures of Earth-2's Flash and the Justice
Society as comic books in his own boyhood.)
Earth-Prime eventually got its own superhero, Ultraa, though he
wound up deciding to keep himself secret. Somewhere around the
Crisis the writers and/or editors explicitly recognized that Earth-
Prime wasn't our Earth (what with Julie Schwartz probably *not*
having a working Cosmic Treadmill in his office), debuted an Earth-
Prime Superboy (whose parents, having come by the name Kent
naturally, apparently decided to name their adopted son "Clark"
after the comic book character in a fit of sadistic cruelty), and
proceeded to destroy the world a couple of issues later.
> Man, I miss Earth One and Earth Two and the annual JSA/JLA
> team ups.
Me too.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Anton Sherwood
> > Niven and Pournelle wrote themselves into _Footfall_.
"Robert A. Woodward" wrote:
> But they appear under aliases (I believe that they also
> show up in _Lucifer's Hammer_ as does Don Alderson).
Dan, that is.
Tim Hamner the amateur astronomer is Niven iirc; who's Pournelle?
...My favorite Mary Sue is Albert Haddock, a party to many of the
fictional court cases of A.P.Herbert.
--
Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Anton Sherwood
> } Stan Lee made a cameo appearance in the issue
> } concerning Reed and Sue Richard's marriage.
John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
> Stan and Jack Kirby turn up in an X-Men, somewhere in the nineties,
> just after the relaunch of that book in late seventies/early eighties.
Is that where Scott & Jean are cuddling and Stan & Jack say
"They didn't carry on like that when *we* had the book" ?
Danny Sichel
>> the idea itself (protagonist discovers he's a
>> fictional character and meets the engineer of his fate in person)
> An idea I found to be handled well in Pratchett's "Final Reward".
"Final Reward"? What is this?
--
"Never underestimate a cow who can knit with her hooves." - James Lileks
Konrad Gaertner
>
> Konrad Gaertner wrote:
>
> >> the idea itself (protagonist discovers he's a
> >> fictional character and meets the engineer of his fate in person)
>
> > An idea I found to be handled well in Pratchett's "Final Reward".
>
> "Final Reward"? What is this?
A short story that I found in _Vintage Science Fiction_ ed. Peter
Haining. Not sure if its been published anywhere else.
Hero of fantasy series is killed off, causing him to meet his
Maker to collect his Final Reward. Better than average Pratchett.
--KG
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
> One of the British comics writers (Grant Morrison, I believe) showed up
> in person at the end of the writer's stint on "Animal Man," not only as
> himself, but as the writer who was writing the protagonist's life and
> was now consigning him to oblivion. When I read this, I wasn't sure
> whether to cheer the writer for the gutsy move (He seemed to be saying,
> "I'm finished here, and I don't care to have my work bastardized by
> lesser lights."), or to chide him for pulling the ladder up behind him.
> Either way, while the idea itself (protagonist discovers he's a
> fictional character and meets the engineer of his fate in person) was
> hardly a new idea, or even a new idea to comics, it was executed in a
> style that made it seem momentarily fresh again.
Dave Sim inserted himself in _Cerebus_ when Cerebus dies and meets his
creator, and then later appears to tell Cerebus to get out of the damn
bar and get on with his life, because he was boring the readers.
But then, Dave's crazy, so that may not be an example to follow.
--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"No one is safe. We will print no letters to the editor. We will give no
space to opposing points of view. They are wrong. The Underground Grammarian
is at war and will give the enemy nothing but battle." -TUG, v1n1
Robert A. Woodward
Anton Sherwood <bro...@pobox.com> wrote:
> > Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> > > Niven and Pournelle wrote themselves into _Footfall_.
>
> "Robert A. Woodward" wrote:
> > But they appear under aliases (I believe that they also
> > show up in _Lucifer's Hammer_ as does Don Alderson).
>
> Dan, that is.
>
> Tim Hamner the amateur astronomer is Niven iirc; who's Pournelle?
>
I could be wrong; but about the time that I read _Lucifer's Hammer_, I
saw Pournelle at a con and he was wearing the same jacket as the guy in
charge of the nuclear power plant in _LH_.
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw
David E. Siegel
> In article <3D763CD0...@pobox.com>,
> Anton Sherwood <bro...@pobox.com> wrote:
>
> > > Steve Coltrin <spco...@omcl.org> wrote:
> > > > Niven and Pournelle wrote themselves into _Footfall_.
> >
> > "Robert A. Woodward" wrote:
> > > But they appear under aliases (I believe that they also
> > > show up in _Lucifer's Hammer_ as does Don Alderson).
> >
> > Dan, that is.
> >
> > Tim Hamner the amateur astronomer is Niven iirc; who's Pournelle?
> >
>
> I could be wrong; but about the time that I read _Lucifer's Hammer_, I
> saw Pournelle at a con and he was wearing the same jacket as the guy in
> charge of the nuclear power plant in _LH_.
I was under the impression that the guy who led the scout campers, who
later became the 'Mountain men" was at least in part a
self-charicature of Pournelle. And Tim Hamner is Niven as he might
have been had he never written anything, more or less.
-DES
Clay Blankenship
>
>
> The K-PAX books by Gene Brewer take the form of case-notes by a doctor
> gene brewer. IMO, the film version made a slight improvement by
> renaming the character.
>
Does "Gene Brewer" strike anyone else as a good name for a mad geneticist?
Clay
Gene Wirchenko
The surname is just fine.
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.
snark^
Oh, you're probably right. It t'wasn't an exact quote -- but I have so
many Simpsons' episodes and moments floating around in my memory that I get
them all confused.
--
I might repeat to myself, slowly and soothingly, a list of quotations
beautiful from minds profound: if I can remember any of the damn things.
-- Dorothy Parker
Sean Cleary
spaceship goes to the empire of religious proto-technowizes one.
With much thanks,
Sean
Andy Cooke
>
> =>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Andy Cooke
> warbled on about "Re: Mary Sues squared" in rec.arts.sf.written <<=
>
> > me wrote:
> > > How did that line of Smithers's go?
> > >
> > > Burns: "Who's that man, Smithers?"
> > > Smithers: "That's Homer Simpson sir, one of the monkeys from Sector 4G. In
> > > the past year he's stopped you from becoming governor, almost destroyed the
> > > plant three times over and his wife painted you in the nude."
> >
> > I could have sworn that it was Sector 7 G.
> >
> > Okay, my daughter (and I) watches (watch) too much Simpsons ...
>
> Oh, you're probably right. It t'wasn't an exact quote -- but I have so
> many Simpsons' episodes and moments floating around in my memory that I get
> them all confused.
Ah, I only remembered because "Sector" and "Seven" are
alliterative. If I'd tried the quote it would have gone:
"That's Homer Simpson sir, one of the monkeys from Sector 7G. In
the past year, he's, err... mumble mumble mumble three times over
and mumble something thingy."
So instead I sit back, go "Ahhh" and pick holes. It makes me
look smarter as long as I don't explain all of this.
<satisfied smile>
<looks concerned>
D'oh!
--
Andy Cooke
snark^
warbled on about "Re: Mary Sues squared" in rec.arts.sf.written <<=
> <satisfied smile>
>
> <looks concerned>
>
> D'oh!
That's d'oh is mine... In a strange case of serendipity I just downloaded
the de_simpsons map for Counterstrike and it has a few bits of the power
plant in it -- including Homer's workstation with the sign "Sector 7G"
above the door.
Great map; has Burns's office, the town square (with all sorts of shops
that shouldn't be there), blinky swimming in the radioactive goo-filled
sewers, alien spaceships, the monorail, Bart's treehouse, Simpson's house,
Otto's school bus, and for some reason the teleporter pods from the
Cronenberg Fly movie (linking the bombsites consisting of the Simpson's
garage and Burns's office).
--
"And to close on, the Usenet Dept. of Small Consolations. Some kibologist
just figured out that if you allow for every troll and spammer and net.kook
a space one KB by two you could store them all on the six hundred forty
Gigabyte HDD space of the news server at zanzibar.com."
Conrad Feinson
<jabbe...@deepinthetulgeywook.com> skrunggeret:
>=>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Andy Cooke
> warbled on about "Re: Mary Sues squared" in rec.arts.sf.written <<=
>
>> <satisfied smile>
>>
>> <looks concerned>
>>
>> D'oh!
>
>That's d'oh is mine... In a strange case of serendipity I just downloaded
>the de_simpsons map for Counterstrike and it has a few bits of the power
>plant in it -- including Homer's workstation with the sign "Sector 7G"
>above the door.
>
>Great map; has Burns's office, the town square (with all sorts of shops
>that shouldn't be there), blinky swimming in the radioactive goo-filled
>sewers, alien spaceships, the monorail, Bart's treehouse, Simpson's house,
>Otto's school bus, and for some reason the teleporter pods from the
>Cronenberg Fly movie (linking the bombsites consisting of the Simpson's
>garage and Burns's office).
They had the matter transporters in a Halloween episode. Professor
Frink was selling them.
HOMER: Hmmm. Two Bucks? And it only transports matter?
Cheers,
Conrad
Robert Whelan
> =>> The runes were cast, the portents thundered and then Andy Cooke
> warbled on about "Re: Mary Sues squared" in rec.arts.sf.written <<=
>
> > <satisfied smile>
> >
> > <looks concerned>
> >
> > D'oh!
>
> That's d'oh is mine... In a strange case of serendipity I just downloaded
> the de_simpsons map for Counterstrike and it has a few bits of the power
> plant in it -- including Homer's workstation with the sign "Sector 7G"
> above the door.
>
> Great map; has Burns's office, the town square (with all sorts of shops
> that shouldn't be there), blinky swimming in the radioactive goo-filled
> sewers, alien spaceships, the monorail, Bart's treehouse, Simpson's house,
> Otto's school bus, and for some reason the teleporter pods from the
> Cronenberg Fly movie (linking the bombsites consisting of the Simpson's
> garage and Burns's office).
One of the Simpsons Halloween episodes had Bart buy those teleporter
pads at a mad scientist's yard-sale, and then mix himself up with
a fly. Pretty funny episode.
Jerry Friedman
...
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
This one's practically a FAQ. Maybe someone should compile the
Definitive List.
In Ursula Le Guin's _Always Coming Home_, Little Bear Woman (get it?)
is a sort of an alter ego of Ursula, and I imagine Le Guin read Little
Bear Woman's parts on the tape that came with the hardcover edition.
Heinlein wrote himself into "--Over the Rainbow".
Outside the genre, Martin Amis includes himself as a minor character
in _Money_. Vladimir Nabokov had several characters with resemblances
to himself, such as the anagrammatic Vivian Darkbloom in _Lolita_, and
of course there's Jorge Luis Borges's "Borges and I".
Speaking of Borges, Gene Wolfe is probably referring to himself as the
"man from Urbasecundus" mentioned briefly in _On Blue's Waters_.
Also, though this is well-known, it probably needs a
M
I
L
D
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
W
A
R
N
I
N
G
In "The Fifth Head of Cerberus", the narrator is known as Number Five,
but his real name (never mentioned) is apparently Gene Wolfe.
I think he's supposed to be a clone of a clone etc. of the real Gene
Wolfe (who has probably lived long enough already to be cloned--though
he probably doesn't want to be). Many of the people on the Urth list
think he's the clone etc. of a fictitious Gene Wolfe.
--
Jerry Friedman
Richard Horton
Friedman) wrote:
>"Mark Hanson" <mpha...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<akrcpo$klm$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
>...
>
>> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
>> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
>> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
>> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>>
>> Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
>> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
>> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
>
>This one's practically a FAQ. Maybe someone should compile the
>Definitive List.
>
>In Ursula Le Guin's _Always Coming Home_, Little Bear Woman (get it?)
>is a sort of an alter ego of Ursula, and I imagine Le Guin read Little
>Bear Woman's parts on the tape that came with the hardcover edition.
>
>Heinlein wrote himself into "--Over the Rainbow".
>
>Outside the genre, Martin Amis includes himself as a minor character
>in _Money_. Vladimir Nabokov had several characters with resemblances
>to himself, such as the anagrammatic Vivian Darkbloom in _Lolita_,
Perhaps most importantly, the person telling the story in _Pnin_ is
subtly a character in the story, and bears some resemblance to VN.
--
Rich Horton | Stable Email: mailto://richard...@sff.net
Home Page: http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton
Also visit SF Site (http://www.sfsite.com) and Tangent Online (http://www.tangentonline.com)
Garrett Fitzgerald
> It's a fairly common thing to have comic book writers and artists
> seem to recall Captain America worked as an illustrator for Marvel
> comics for awhile there. I have no idea if any actual Marvel
> employees showed up in the book, though.
I saw Babylon 5 plugged in a JWS-written Spidey story. :-)
Jerry Friedman
> David Johnston wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> > > story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> > > genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> > > named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
> >
> > Isaac Asimov put himself in his Darius Just mysteries as comic relief.
...
> You're not interested in ones where the author claims to be
> publishing a manuscript he discovered or to be interviewing the
> characters, right? Like the "About the Author" sections in Brust's
> Khaavren books (can't wait to see what he does for _Paths_).
On the other hand, Vlad's mentions of the "fool" who has a machine
with "ears" might qualify.
--
Jerry Friedman
Kent Coyle
On Sat, 31 Aug 2002, Mark Hanson wrote:
> "Sea Wasp" <sea...@wizvax.net> wrote in message
> news:3D70E4...@wizvax.net...
> > A fanfic term for "self-insert wish-fulfillment character". Taken from
> > the days of original Star Trek fanfic (early 70s), many of which
> > featured a character suspiciously like an idealized version of the
> > (usually female) author who would of course end up in bed with whatever
> > Trek character was the author's favorite. And probably would also save
> > the ship, fight off the bad guys, etc. As the self-insert in question
> > generally had a name identical to or close to that of the protagonist,
> > eventually these characters came to be identified by the generic female
> > name Mary Sue. The male equivalent has come to be called a "Marty Sue".
>
> Hm. Learn somethin' new every day, it seems.
>
> Has anyone else ever read a book where the author actually *was* in the
> story? I did, once. In Clive Cussler's novel "Sahara" (mildly borderline
> genre adventure sf, sorta kinda) the hero, Dirk Pitt, meets a traveler
> named..."Clive Cussler"!...during the course of the story.
>
> Other than it being pretty egotistical, I suppose there's nothing *wrong*
> with doing something like that. And yet, it annoyed me so much that
> (combined with many other factors) I never picked up another CC novel.
>
> Mark
>
>
>
Cussler's in all of 'em. Like Hitchcock was in all his movies.