LOTR : Most looking forward to...
tribal_fluke
Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
Robert A. Woodward
triba...@hotmail.com (tribal_fluke) wrote:
Pippen: "...how we come by a few well-earned comforts."
--
robe...@drizzle.com http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw/
rawoo...@aol.com
Jason Mulligan
triba...@hotmail.com says...
> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
scene was filmed.
Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
Arthur Levesque
JM>Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
JM>what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
Wow, JRRT foresaw supercolliders.
--
/\ Arthur M Levesque 2A4W <*> b...@boog.orgy =/\= http://boog.org __
\B\ack King of the Potato People <fnord> "Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!" (oO)
\S\lash When is Alec Baldwin going to leave? (-O-) Urban Spaceman /||\
\/ I was a lesbian before it was fashionable "I hate rainbows!"-EC
David Allsopp
tribal_fluke <triba...@hotmail.com> writes
>....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
Ents. Got to be ents. Ents ents ents ents ents. Can't wait. Hooom!
(Mind you, this is one CGI they could screw up bigtime. Any whiff of
Disney will kill it stone dead.)
--
David Allsopp Houston, this is Tranquillity Base.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
Jerry Friedman
> In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
> triba...@hotmail.com says...
> > ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
> > Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> > brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
> Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
> scene was filmed.
I don't think they could possibly have skipped it. Shorten it, yes.
However, I felt in the FotR movie that Lee did not have the vocal
powers to do justice to that scene. Maybe with a little enhancement?
> Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
> what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
We didn't lose it. It's still in the book.
The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sea Wasp
Nah. That goes to
"But no mortal man am I!"
One of the ultimate Homeric moments -- as in, Homer Simpson.
Lord of the Nazgul: "D'OH!!!"
--
Sea Wasp http://www.wizvax.net/seawasp/index.htm
/^\
;;; _Morgantown: The Jason Wood Chronicles_, at
http://www.hyperbooks.com/catalog/20040.html
Andrew Plotkin
No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
--Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Brenda W. Clough
Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>
> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
But Gandalf heard him (in the film), which I think was very fine. And then everybody quieted down.
Brenda
--
What do you do with a secret?
Whisper it in a desert at high noon.
Lock it up and bury the key.
Tell the nation on prime-time TV.
Choose a door . . .
Doors of Death and Life
by Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda
Tor Books
ISBN 0-312-87064-7
Brenda W. Clough
David Allsopp wrote:
> In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
> tribal_fluke <triba...@hotmail.com> writes
> >....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
> >Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> >brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
> Ents. Got to be ents. Ents ents ents ents ents. Can't wait. Hooom!
>
> (Mind you, this is one CGI they could screw up bigtime. Any whiff of
> Disney will kill it stone dead.)
I hope they look at THE WIZARD OF OZ again. The apple trees that menace
Dorothy and the Scarecrow...
Laura Burchard
"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would
devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the
arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that
which they defend..."
Faramir was my other great crush when I first read LotR all those years
ago, along with Legolas.
--
Laura Burchard -- l...@radix.net -- http://www.radix.net/~lhb
Livejournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tavella/
"Good design is clear thinking made visible." -- Edward Tufte
Thomas Yan
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> Jason Mulligan <suli...@spam.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
> > what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
>
> No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
>
> --Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
Wild tangent: My favorite line from _The Man of Two Worlds_ was,
-"Not the Raj *dude*, the Raj *Dood*"-.
--
Thomas Yan (ty...@twcny.rr.com) Note: I don't check e-mail often.
Be pro-active. Fight sucky software and learned helplessness.
Apologies for any lack of capitalization; typing hurts my hands.
Progress on next DbS installment: pp1-38 of pp1-181 of _Taltos_
Margaret Young
>In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>tribal_fluke <triba...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>>Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>>brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would
>devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the
>arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that
>which they defend..."
>
>Faramir was my other great crush when I first read LotR all those years
>ago, along with Legolas.
I want to see what Jackson in going to do with this NOW. I don't want
to wait.
Margaret - feeling like a kid waiting for Christmas to come
Margaret
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
faint smell of cat pee.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==-----
Bill & Sue Miller
--
Home: wbmi...@ghg.net
Work: william....@jsc.nasa.gov
Homepage: http://www.ghg.net/wbmiller3
GSV Three Minds in a Can
<sea...@wizvax.net> said
>tribal_fluke wrote:
>>
>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>
> Nah. That goes to
>
> "But no mortal man am I!"
>
> One of the ultimate Homeric moments -- as in, Homer Simpson.
>
> Lord of the Nazgul: "D'OH!!!"
Much as it pains me to /AOL, I have to agree that that one is probably
my favourite too. Come-uppance time, with a vengeance! 8>.
--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Joseph Michael Bay
>> Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>> what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
>No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
>--Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
"It comes in PINTS?"
Q: What's grey and comes in pints?
A: A cave troll.
--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
When crime is outlawed, only outlaws will commit crimes.
LEGALIZE http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay CRIME
Rick
Dorothy J Heydt
Bill & Sue Miller <wbmi...@ghg.net> wrote:
>"Grond crawled on."
Which itself is homage to
Com on wanre niht....
Tha com ofer more....
Com tha to recede....
("he came in dark night," "then came over the moor," "then he
came to the hall," describing Grendel's approach to Heorot.)
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
James A. Wolf
>Jason Mulligan <suli...@spam.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>> In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>> triba...@hotmail.com says...
>>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>> Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
>> scene was filmed.
>
>> Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>> what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
>
>No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
>
>--Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
My silly choice is "They have a rock troll!"
Sean Bean's delivery was *perfect!*
--
<*> James A. Wolf - jaw...@mediaone.net - people.ne.mediaone.net/jawolf <*>
"The jawbone of an ass is |"Victory changes |"You must take the war to the
just as dangerous a weapon |everything, psy- |enemy. You must attack and go
today as in Samson's time."|chology above all." |on attacking all the time."
Richard M. Nixon |Charles Krauthammer |Willy Coppens
James A. Wolf
>On 11 Jan 2002 14:51:17 -0500, l...@Radix.Net (Laura Burchard) wrote:
>
>>In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>>tribal_fluke <triba...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>>>Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>>>brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>>
>>"War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would
>>devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the
>>arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that
>>which they defend..."
>>
>>Faramir was my other great crush when I first read LotR all those years
>>ago, along with Legolas.
>
>I want to see what Jackson in going to do with this NOW. I don't want
>to wait.
Meanwhile in the dark CGI mines or Mordor, the Editorwraiths whip
their orc progamers into a frenzy to finish the next film!
Andrew Wheeler
For me, the great lines are:
"Deserves it? I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And
some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be
too eager to deal out death in judgment."
And the other one -- which ten minutes of poking around have not found
-- is also Gandalf talking to Frodo, who has just wished that he were
not born in such times. Gandalf points out that no one can choose his
time -- only what he does in that time.
Those two speeches of Gandalf's (very well done in the movie)
crystallized Tolkien's world-view for me: that we must do the best we
can now, in the world that exists. There's a heavy echo of the Great
War in the War of the Ring, and that's one of the things that always
struck home most with me.
--
Andrew Wheeler
Editor, SF Book Club (USA) -- speaking only for myself
No Ideas But In Things!
Phil Fraering
>>Faramir was my other great crush when I first read LotR all those years
>>ago, along with Legolas.
>I want to see what Jackson in going to do with this NOW. I don't want
>to wait.
I have recently been catching up with The Evil That Is Sluggy.
Anyway, I wish I'd seen it before the movie, but on the site there's
a hacked version of a LOTR poster with Riff as Legolas.
Phil
--
Phil Fraering
p...@globalreach.net
John Andrew Fairhurst
> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
He's about the only person that could deliver that line even more
effectively as the guy who played Saruman in the R4 version IMO.
Best line in the books? Difficult. Tree Beard behind Merry and Pippin in
Fanghorn was good (but really cool in the R4 version, too). Probably
Theoden King's final speech after he's been clobbered by Snowmane.
--
John Fairhurst
In Association with Amazon worldwide:
http://www.johnsbooks.co.uk/Books/Masterworks/
Andrew Plotkin
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>>
>>No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
>>
>>--Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
> My silly choice is "They have a rock troll!"
>
> Sean Bean's delivery was *perfect!*
Topic slip -- I was on the track of great lines that got left out of
the movie.
Of great lines in the movie that were not in the book, I do like the
one you mention.
--Z
Nancy Lebovitz
Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>Jason Mulligan wrote:
>>
>> In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>> triba...@hotmail.com says...
>> > ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is
>> > the house of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink
>> > in the reek, and their brats roll on the floor among the
>> > dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>>
>> Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if
>> any of that scene was filmed.
>>
>> Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a
>> thing to see what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not
>> getting my hopes up.
>
>For me, the great lines are:
> "Deserves it? I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And
>some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be
>too eager to deal out death in judgment."
>
>And the other one -- which ten minutes of poking around have not found
>-- is also Gandalf talking to Frodo, who has just wished that he were
>not born in such times. Gandalf points out that no one can choose his
>time -- only what he does in that time.
>
I love: "But it is not your own Shire", said Gildor. "Others dwelt here
before Hobbits were, and others will dwell here again when hobbits
are no more. The wide world is about you: you can fence yourselves
in, but you can not for ever fence it out."
Typing it in made me notice that Hobbits are capitalized the first
time, but not the second. I don't know whether this is a typo in the
book.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
And on the eighth day, God said, "OK, Murphy, you take over".
Pam Phillips
news:DMNO9nAVuvP8EwA$@tqbase.demon.co.uk:
>
> Ents. Got to be ents. Ents ents ents ents ents. Can't wait. Hooom!
>
And I want to see the look on Aragorn's face when they finally catch up to
Merry and Pippin sitting on the ruins of Isengard.
Tom Scudder
> Jason Mulligan <suli...@SPAM.bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<MPG.16a9571cd66906db9896ed@news-server>...
> > In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
> > triba...@hotmail.com says...
> > > ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
> > > Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> > > brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
> >
> > Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
> > scene was filmed.
>
> I don't think they could possibly have skipped it. Shorten it, yes.
> However, I felt in the FotR movie that Lee did not have the vocal
> powers to do justice to that scene. Maybe with a little enhancement?
Ahh! Please, no. If there was one thing that annoyed me about the
movie, it's the tendency to substitute digital "enhancement" for
ACTING. (See: Gandalf turning the atomic leaf-blower on Bilbo, Bilbo's
eyes bugging out when he sees the Ring again, Galadriel). The
"slogging through Mordor" scenes in the third movie could be VERY
painful.
Olaf Weber
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>> And the other one -- which ten minutes of poking around have not found
>> -- is also Gandalf talking to Frodo, who has just wished that he were
>> not born in such times. Gandalf points out that no one can choose his
>> time -- only what he does in that time.
It's in "The Shadow of the Past", shortly after the ring-verse is
found.
`[...] Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another
shape and grows again.'
`I wish it need not have happened in my time,' said Frodo
`So do I,' said Gandalf, `and so do all who live to see such times.
But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to
do with the time that is given us. And already, Frodo, our time is
beginning to look black. [...]'
> I may find something I like better--I'm currently rereading--but
> I love: "But it is not your own Shire", said Gildor. "Others dwelt here
> before Hobbits were, and others will dwell here again when hobbits
> are no more. The wide world is about you: you can fence yourselves
> in, but you can not for ever fence it out."
> Typing it in made me notice that Hobbits are capitalized the first
> time, but not the second. I don't know whether this is a typo in the
> book.
The edition I checked (Unwin single volume paperback) has lowercase
both times.
--
Olaf Weber
(This space left blank for technical reasons.)
Richard Harter
wrote:
Likewise the Houghton Mifflin hardcover.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, http://www.varinoma.com
Love, no matter how pure, is the most selfish of gifts.
For that reason it is the one gift that must be given.
James A. Wolf
>tribal_fluke wrote:
>>
>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>
> Nah. That goes to
>
> "But no mortal man am I!"
>
> One of the ultimate Homeric moments -- as in, Homer Simpson.
>
> Lord of the Nazgul: "D'OH!!!
"I meant it in the generic sense. No really, so young lady, do us all
a favor and put down the sword..... OWIE! OWIE! OWIE!"
David Cowie
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
> faint smell of cat pee.
>
I understand why there will be cockroaches and Keith Richards (too hard
to kill) but why cat pee?
--
David Cowie
There is no _spam in my address.
"You had to do WHAT with your seat?"
Brenda W. Clough
I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
Margaret Young
<david_co...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Friday 11 January 2002 21:33, Margaret Young wrote:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
>> faint smell of cat pee.
>>
>I understand why there will be cockroaches and Keith Richards (too hard
>to kill) but why cat pee?
That arose from a conversation some time back (I cannot remember if
was in this newsgroup) which began with a poster noting that he
decided not to buy a used car because of it had about it a faint but
unmistakable odor of cat pee. The owner promised that the smell was
easy to get rid of but, as the poster noted, if it was easy to get rid
of the owner would have already gotten rid of it.
This led to a conversation among the posters who had been owned by
cats about the difficulty of completely eliminating the odor of cat
pee on, let us say, ones favourite carpet or chair. Someone posted
their doubts as to the problem and my sig file is my statement of my
belief in the basic industructability of the odor of cat urine.
Note: One of my cats had a problem with crystals in her bladder and
used to pee whenever happy, sad, upset or excited. Believe me, I know
about cat pee.
Margaret
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
faint smell of cat pee.
Joseph Michael Bay
>I have recently been catching up with The Evil That Is Sluggy.
>Anyway, I wish I'd seen it before the movie, but on the site there's
>a hacked version of a LOTR poster with Riff as Legolas.
Once they go back to being cartoons, Riff will be Lego-less.
Oh, man. I'm truly sorry.
Del Cotter
Robert A. Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com> said:
>triba...@hotmail.com (tribal_fluke) wrote:
>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>Pippen: "...how we come by a few well-earned comforts."
John Rhys-Davies:
"And what about your companions? What about Legolas and me? You
rascals, you woolly-footed and wool-pated truants! A fine hunt you
have led us! Two hundred leagues, through fen and forest, battle and
death, to rescue you! And here we find you feasting and idling-- and
smoking! *Smoking*! WHERE DID YOU COME BY THE WEED, YOU VILLAINS?"
Éomer:
"So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a
fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great
wonder."
But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue, and b)
Tolkien's original dialogue works so well on the big screen.
--
. . . . Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk . . . .
JustRead:nTheHundredDays:SMStirlingOnTheOceansOfEternity:TerryPratchettT
heFifthElephant:KenMacLeodCosmonautKeep:JRRTolkienTheFellowshipOfTheRing
ToRead:ChinaMievillePerdidoStreetStation:MichaelMarshallSmithOnlyForward
Joseph Michael Bay
>But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
>will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
>was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue, and b)
>Tolkien's original dialogue works so well on the big screen.
I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
"enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> said
>
>I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
>between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
>film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
>trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
>white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
Yep, that was one of the few items that you likely wouldn't spot unless
you had read the book.
Mike Montour
>
> This led to a conversation among the posters who had been owned by
> cats about the difficulty of completely eliminating the odor of cat
> pee on, let us say, ones favourite carpet or chair. Someone posted
> their doubts as to the problem and my sig file is my statement of my
> belief in the basic industructability of the odor of cat urine.
Quoting from the 'fortune' file:
%%
"I am convinced that the manufacturers of carpet odor removing powder
have included encapsulated time released cat urine in their products.
This technology must be what prevented its distribution during my mom's
reign. My carpet smells like piss, and I don't have a cat. Better go
buy some more."
-- ti...@zeb.USWest.COM
Joseph Michael Bay
Urr?
You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
John F. Eldredge
Hash: SHA1
On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:41:56 +0000, David Cowie
<david_co...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Friday 11 January 2002 21:33, Margaret Young wrote:
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>> Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and
>> the faint smell of cat pee.
>>
>I understand why there will be cockroaches and Keith Richards (too
>hard to kill) but why cat pee?
Have you ever tried to eliminate the smell of cat pee? It does fade
eventually, but it takes a _long_ time. Fortunately, my current cat
is well-behaved, and has only wet the carpet once. A tomcat sprayed
the outside of my front door, so she wet the carpet just inside the
door to assert her claim to the territory.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 Int. for non-commercial use
<http://www.pgpinternational.com>
iQA/AwUBPEDWrDMYPge5L34aEQL0qACg9NVfGN4+s1HXzrggfzEMvhoa56cAnR/M
aYnRqhLxKKY/NAOb8L+P1NQe
=TEcj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
John F. Eldredge -- eldr...@earthlink.net, eldr...@poboxes.com
PGP key available from http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371
"There must be, not a balance of power, but a community of power;
not organized rivalries, but an organized common peace."
Woodrow Wilson
Konrad Gaertner
>
> But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
> will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
> was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue, and b)
> Tolkien's original dialogue works so well on the big screen.
Except they did cut out every line I expected Saruman to say in this
movie. Radagast is in the book for a reason, a bigger reason than
Bombadil.
--KG
Laura Burchard
Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
>will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
>was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue, and b)
>Tolkien's original dialogue works so well on the big screen.
Jackson *was* one of the screenwriters, and his wife the other.
--
Laura Burchard -- l...@radix.net -- http://www.radix.net/~lhb
Livejournal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/tavella/
"Good design is clear thinking made visible." -- Edward Tufte
Chad R. Orzel
<suli...@SPAM.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
Of course, as a scientist by inclination, and a sometime
spectroscopist by training, I tend to think of that line (especially
in context) as among the worst of the series...
I do like the "many who live deserve death" speech, and I thought that
moving it to Moria in the movie made it even more effective. I tend to
believe that they'll do a good job with the major dialogue that's yet
to come.
--
Chad Orzel
Book Log: http://home.earthlink.net/~orzelc/booklog.html
Reviews: http://home.earthlink.net/~orzelc/Reviews.html
Chad R. Orzel
<d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>John Rhys-Davies:
>
> "And what about your companions? What about Legolas and me? You
> rascals, you woolly-footed and wool-pated truants! A fine hunt you
> have led us! Two hundred leagues, through fen and forest, battle and
> death, to rescue you! And here we find you feasting and idling-- and
> smoking! *Smoking*! WHERE DID YOU COME BY THE WEED, YOU VILLAINS?"
Probably a bit long for film, but the essence should be kept.
>Éomer:
>
> "So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a
> fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great
> wonder."
I doubt this will make it, not without significant modification.
>But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
>will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
>was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue,
That shouldn't be too surprising, given that Jackson _was_ one of the
scriptwriters...
Shaad M. Ahmad
Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:10:40 GMT, Jason Mulligan
><suli...@SPAM.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
>>Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>>what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
>
>Of course, as a scientist by inclination, and a sometime
>spectroscopist by training, I tend to think of that line (especially
>in context) as among the worst of the series...
I'm a geneticist who works with fruit-flies. Almost all our wisdom
was gained from "breaking" genes, and seeing what transpired...
- Shaad
Del Cotter
Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> said:
>Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
>>will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
>>was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue,
>
>That shouldn't be too surprising, given that Jackson _was_ one of the
>scriptwriters...
I sort of knew that, especially that he wrote the original script. I
was trying to allow for the possibility that later versions would have
been written by other writers while he was busy doing the director
thing.
GSV Three Minds in a Can
wonderful person John F. Eldredge <eldr...@earthlink.net> said
<snip>
>>> Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and
>>> the faint smell of cat pee.
>>>
>>I understand why there will be cockroaches and Keith Richards (too
>>hard to kill) but why cat pee?
>
>Have you ever tried to eliminate the smell of cat pee? It does fade
>eventually, but it takes a _long_ time. Fortunately, my current cat
>is well-behaved, and has only wet the carpet once. A tomcat sprayed
>the outside of my front door, so she wet the carpet just inside the
>door to assert her claim to the territory.
Yes indeedy .. evolution has put millions of years into making sure cat
pee was suitably smelly, and long lasting, so making it suitable for
territorial marking. Evolution succeeded.
--
Phil Fraering
>Phil Fraering <p...@globalreach.net> writes:
>>I have recently been catching up with The Evil That Is Sluggy.
>>Anyway, I wish I'd seen it before the movie, but on the site there's
>>a hacked version of a LOTR poster with Riff as Legolas.
>Once they go back to being cartoons, Riff will be Lego-less.
>Oh, man. I'm truly sorry.
You've seen today's, right?
Phil
--
Phil Fraering
p...@globalreach.net
Phil Fraering
Brenda W. Clough
> Del Cotter <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> >But I like Saruman's "dotard" speech too, and am confident that Jackson
> >will include it in the movie. I am mightily impressed that a) Jackson
> >was able to stop the scriptwriters butchering Tolkien's dialogue, and b)
> >Tolkien's original dialogue works so well on the big screen.
>
> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
>
Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
Dorothy J Heydt
Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
>> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
>> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
>
>Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
I think she's horrible ... because Elves should be beautiful,
dammit, and she has a nose like a knife blade and little piggy
eyes like ME. But my son thinks she's beautiful, so I guess it
really is in the eye of the beholder.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
Jason Mulligan
> In article <3C41E698...@erols.com>,
> Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
> >> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
> >> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
> >
> >Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
>
> I think she's horrible ... because Elves should be beautiful,
> dammit, and she has a nose like a knife blade and little piggy
> eyes like ME. But my son thinks she's beautiful, so I guess it
> really is in the eye of the beholder.
I thought she looked great. I just thought Jackson rewrote Galadriel
badly and directed Cate badly as well.
Cosmin Corbea
"Chad R. Orzel" <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:rcet8ugqcdj7pvk9j...@4ax.com...
> >Éomer:
> >
> > "So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a
> > fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great
> > wonder."
>
> I doubt this will make it, not without significant modification.
Especially since the whole Gimli falling in love with Galadriel thing seems
to have been chopped (which, IMHO, is a pity: I think the gifts ceremony was
great: "And what gift can a Dwarf ask of the Elves?"). But then, the whole
Lothlorien episode was hurried along.
And the Gimli-Legolas friendship story seems to have fallen by the wayside
too (we'll find out next Christmas, I guess). It makes Gimli (and Legolas)
hardly more than background; honestly, I'd have liked less teary eyed
staring and more character development.
Regards,
Cosmin Corbea
Konrad Gaertner
It is one of the first clear examples of evil working against itself.
Saruman, by decieving Radagast instead of corrupting him, allowed
Gandalf to unknowingly set up his own escape. Sure, you can see the
author's hand in events, but IMO not as much as with a butterfly
looking for pollen on top of a tower in the middle of what is now an
industrial wasteland.
--KG
Brenda W. Clough
> In article <3C41E698...@erols.com>,
> Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
> >> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
> >> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
> >
> >Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
>
> I think she's horrible ... because Elves should be beautiful,
> dammit, and she has a nose like a knife blade and little piggy
> eyes like ME. But my son thinks she's beautiful, so I guess it
> really is in the eye of the beholder.
>
I could have lived with her looks, but her speaking style and the
effects put me off.
Tony Hursh
> Especially since the whole Gimli falling in love with Galadriel thing seems
> to have been chopped
According to an interview with John Rhys-Davies, this sequence
was in fact filmed and may well show up as a flashback in the
next installment.
Failing that, there's always hope for a 4 hour director's
cut on the DVD.
Chad R. Orzel
<cosminc@no_spam_pls.canada.com.invalid> wrote:
>"Chad R. Orzel" <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:rcet8ugqcdj7pvk9j...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 23:00:35 +0000, Del Cotter
>> <d...@branta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > "So many strange things have chanced that to learn the praise of a
>> > fair lady under the loving strokes of a Dwarf's axe will seem no great
>> > wonder."
>> I doubt this will make it, not without significant modification.
>Especially since the whole Gimli falling in love with Galadriel thing seems
>to have been chopped (which, IMHO, is a pity: I think the gifts ceremony was
>great: "And what gift can a Dwarf ask of the Elves?"). But then, the whole
>Lothlorien episode was hurried along.
The gifts ceremony is nice, but would've slowed things down badly. I
think it was more important to keep the movie going at that point,
rather than stop for a longer peaceful interlude.
Should any of it prove important, they can always show the gift-giving
in flashback in the next movie. I'm not sure that Gimli's crush is
really important enough to spend much time on, though.
>And the Gimli-Legolas friendship story seems to have fallen by the wayside
>too (we'll find out next Christmas, I guess).
It's really not their movie.
Their friendship really doesn't become a major element until the
second book, and it can be dealt with in the second movie. Pushing
what little there is about their friendship out of the first movie to
make room for more of Boromir's fall and redemption seems an eminently
reasonable choice to me.
Dorothy J Heydt
Konrad Gaertner <gae...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>It is one of the first clear examples of evil working against itself.
>Saruman, by decieving Radagast instead of corrupting him, allowed
>Gandalf to unknowingly set up his own escape. Sure, you can see the
>author's hand in events, but IMO not as much as with a butterfly
>looking for pollen on top of a tower in the middle of what is now an
>industrial wasteland.
It was a moth, probably attracted to the lights of Orthanc, and
when it got near Gandalf summoned it. I can believe in that
easier than I can believe in an ugly Elf (who hasn't already been
turned into an Orc).
Andrew Plotkin
>>Bitstring <3C40B877...@erols.com>, from the wonderful person
>>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> said
>>>
>>>I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
>>>between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
>>>film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
>>>trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
>>>white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
>>Yep, that was one of the few items that you likely wouldn't spot unless
>>you had read the book.
> Urr?
> You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
> one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
*still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
viewing.
I felt pretty dumb then, but there you are: I didn't spot it the first
two times.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Simon van Dongen
>In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>triba...@hotmail.com says...
>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>
>Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
>scene was filmed.
>
>Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
It's a great line, agreed. Only problem is that it isn't true, unless
you specify that (unlike, presumably, Saruman's clothes) the 'thing'
is one of a kind.
I very much doubt my favourite bit of dialog will survive, as any of
the varied bits that set it up are likely to be cut: Aragorn's
'lecture' at Merry in the Houses of Healing:
'Master Meriadoc,' said Aragorn, 'if you think that I have passed
through the mountains and the realm of Gondor with fire and sword to
bring herbs to a careless soldier who throws away his gear, you are
mistaken. If your pack has not been found, then you must send for the
herb-master of this House. And he will tell you that he did not know
that the herb you desire had any virtues, but that it is called
*westmansweed* by the vulgar, and *galenas* by the noble, and other
names in other tongues more learned, and after adding a few
half-forgotten rhymes that he does not understand, he will regretfully
inform you that there is none in this House, and he will leave you to
reflect on the history of tongues. And so now must I...'
It's one of the few things where I feel Aragorn's persona gets beyond
textbook heroics. And any character that can make a speech like that
after the day Aragorn must have had has my undying sympathy.
--
Simon van Dongen <sg...@xs4all.nl> Rotterdam, The Netherlands
'Bear courteous greetings to the accomplished musician outside our
gate, [...] and convince him - by means of a heavily-weighted club
if necessary - that the situation he has taken up is quite unworthy
of his incomparable efforts.' -Bramah, 'Kai Lung's Golden Hours'
Cosmin Corbea
news:3C424302...@acm.org...
> Cosmin Corbea wrote:
>
> > Especially since the whole Gimli falling in love with Galadriel thing
seems
> > to have been chopped
>
> According to an interview with John Rhys-Davies, this sequence
> was in fact filmed and may well show up as a flashback in the
> next installment.
I see. That'd be nice; thanks for the info...
I liked the way all the members of the fellowship evolve in the book (except
for Gandalf, who doesn't change so much, he just becomes more of the same).
That's why I was quite annoyed with the directorial changes that undermine
this character evolution. The Gimli thing is an example; another is the
ridiculous idea to make Frodo's escape from the fellowship a consensus. This
makes Aragorn's choice to follow Merry and Pippin obvious, removes any
reasons for his anguish ("Alas! An ill fate is on me this day, and all that
I do goes amiss." And later: "Now may I make a right choice and change the
evil fate of this unhappy day!"), and makes all seem like a jolly hunting
party ("Let's all get us some orc! Yee-haw!" - that's almost a correct
citation from the movie, BTW).
Regards,
Cosmin Corbea
Dorothy J Heydt
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
>> You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
>> one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
>
>Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
>*still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
>viewing.
Well, in the book IIRC they didn't have white hand-prints on
their faces, they had heraldic images of a hand apaumee argent on
their helms and shields.
Still looks good, though, in the sense that it looks very Orcish.
Dorothy J Heydt
Simon van Dongen <sg...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>It's one of the few things where I feel Aragorn's persona gets beyond
>textbook heroics.
What about his line "Alas, an evil chance is on me and all that I
do this day goes amiss!" Or words to that effect. We, of
course, not living in the heroic mode, would put it more like
"Goddammit, everything I do is wrong!"
John F. Eldredge
Hash: SHA1
On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 04:26:36 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <a1tkd5$ck3$3...@news.panix.com>,
>Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
>>> one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
>>
>>Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
>>*still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
>>viewing.
>
>Well, in the book IIRC they didn't have white hand-prints on
>their faces, they had heraldic images of a hand apaumee argent on
>their helms and shields.
>
>Still looks good, though, in the sense that it looks very Orcish.
I agree. The "warpaint" association fits them quite well. Did
Tolkien ever say whether there were any female orcs, or were they all
magically produced, rather than born?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.1 Int. for non-commercial use
<http://www.pgpinternational.com>
iQA/AwUBPEJmrTMYPge5L34aEQLo1ACfb9ABEGx1JRgcW8FxvsM5ueIuU8UAn387
d7Xdgb2uZZUTVJTKxe3OcfFG
=M7cM
Nancy Lebovitz
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <3C41E698...@erols.com>,
>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
>>> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
>>> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
>>
>>Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
>
>I think she's horrible ... because Elves should be beautiful,
>dammit, and she has a nose like a knife blade and little piggy
>eyes like ME. But my son thinks she's beautiful, so I guess it
>really is in the eye of the beholder.
How bizarre. I thought she was gorgeous. Her face didn't move much,
but that worked for me as eerie other-worldliness.
Perhaps your eyes don't look quite as bad as you think.
On the other hand, I thought Elrond was too funny-looking to be a
plausible Elf.
--
Nancy Lebovitz na...@netaxs.com www.nancybuttons.com 100 new slogans
And on the eighth day, God said, "OK, Murphy, you take over".
Jens Kilian
> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
What bugged me was that a lot of people *laughed* at that line. That may be
a shibboleth(sp?) to distinguish people who've read the book from those who
haven't; if you think it's a joke, you haven't.
--
mailto:j...@acm.org phone:+49-7031-464-7698 (TELNET 778-7698)
http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ fax:+49-7031-464-7351
PGP: 06 04 1C 35 7B DC 1F 26 As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish,
0x555DA8B5 BB A2 F0 66 77 75 E1 08 so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake]
Jens Kilian
> Margaret - feeling like a kid waiting for Christmas to come
Like one of the hobbit-children on the day before the Long-Expected Party?
Think of how you will feel after the *second* movie. Think of how the poor
non-readers will feel. (This happened before, after the publication of
_The Two Towers_.)
Jens Kilian
> Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
> *still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
> viewing.
There are *lots* of easy-to-miss details. For example, did you spot the
stone troll? Va gur fprar whfg orsber Nentbea nccrnef, Sebqb vf furygrerq
orybj n uhtr gebyy-funcrq ebpx.
Jens "Rot-13 looks like Black Speech, doesn't it?" Kilian.
Phil Fraering
>And the Gimli-Legolas friendship story seems to have fallen by the wayside
>too (we'll find out next Christmas, I guess). It makes Gimli (and Legolas)
>hardly more than background; honestly, I'd have liked less teary eyed
>staring and more character development.
And while you're at it, I'd like less hugging.
Dorothy J Heydt
Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
>
>On the other hand, I thought Elrond was too funny-looking to be a
>plausible Elf.
Well, he's only Halfelven.
Kate Nepveu
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> writes:
>> Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
>> *still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
>> viewing.
> There are *lots* of easy-to-miss details. For example, did you spot the
> stone troll? Va gur fprar whfg orsber Nentbea nccrnef, Sebqb vf furygrerq
> orybj n uhtr gebyy-funcrq ebpx.
It may have been harder to see, depending on your theater; I was
specifically looking for it the second time and couldn't make it
out, and neither could Chad, who'd noticed it the first time.
Kate
--
http://www.steelypips.org/elsewhere.html -- kate....@yale.edu
Paired Reading Page; Book Reviews; Outside of a Dog: A Book Log
"I awoke this morning with devout thanksgiving for my friends."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Dorothy J Heydt
Jens Kilian <Jens_...@agilent.com> wrote:
>
>Think of how you will feel after the *second* movie. Think of how the poor
>non-readers will feel. (This happened before, after the publication of
>_The Two Towers_.)
It happened to me some years later. (This was early 1960s, when
the only copies available were the British hardcovers.) I had
found the books in, if you please, the Children's Section of the
Education/Psychology Library on the UCB Campus, and had taken out
the first two on a Friday, thinking those would surely last me
through the weekend. Mid-afternoon on Sunday I finished _The Two
Towers_ and just about went nuts because the Ed/Psych Library
wasn't open on Sunday. I made up some scheme whereby the
plot could have been resolved, nothing like the way Tolkien did
it, but I've forgotten what it was.
Helgi Briem
<kate....@yale.edu> wrote:
>> There are *lots* of easy-to-miss details. For example, did you spot the
>> stone troll? Va gur fprar whfg orsber Nentbea nccrnef, Sebqb vf furygrerq
>> orybj n uhtr gebyy-funcrq ebpx.
>
>It may have been harder to see, depending on your theater; I was
>specifically looking for it the second time and couldn't make it
>out, and neither could Chad, who'd noticed it the first time.
Here in Iceland, and I presume in New Zealand too, as the
landscape looks sort of identical, zbfg ebpx sbezngvbaf
ybbx yvxr ebpx gebyyf. V fhfcrpg guvf vf gur ebbg fbhepr
bs znal n yrtraq. [ROT 13 for very minor spoiler]
--
Regards, Helgi Briem
helgi AT decode DOT is
Jeffrey C. Dege
>jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) writes:
>> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
>> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
>> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
>> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
>> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
>
>What bugged me was that a lot of people *laughed* at that line. That may be
>a shibboleth(sp?) to distinguish people who've read the book from those who
>haven't; if you think it's a joke, you haven't.
If I remember the scene, Gimli laughed at the line, or started to,
until Gloin shushed him.
--
It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and
by eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate
the habit of thinking about what we are doing. The precise opposite is the
case. Civilization advances by extending the numbers of important operations
which we can perform without thinking about them. Operations of thought are
like cavalry charges in battle -- they are strictly limited in number, they
require fresh horses, and must only be made at decisive moments.
-- Alfred North Whitehead
Lee DeRaud
wrote:
>Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>
>>Jason Mulligan <suli...@spam.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>>> In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
>>> triba...@hotmail.com says...
>>>> ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
>>>> Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
>>>> brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
>>
>>> Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
>>> scene was filmed.
>>
>>> Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing to see
>>> what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting my hopes up.
>>
>>No, no, *the* great line of FOTR was "Do not touch the water!"
>>
>>--Z (a silly choice for great line, but dear to my heart for some reason)
>
>My silly choice is "They have a rock troll!"
>
>Sean Bean's delivery was *perfect!*
And for that one brief instant I swear he even *looked* like James
Marsters. :-)
Lee
Lee DeRaud
<david_co...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Friday 11 January 2002 21:33, Margaret Young wrote:
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Come the apocalypse there will be cockroaches, Keith Richards and the
>> faint smell of cat pee.
>>
>I understand why there will be cockroaches and Keith Richards (too hard
>to kill) but why cat pee?
I just assumed that's what Keith Richards smells like...<rimshot>
Lee
Dorothy J Heydt
Lee DeRaud <lee.d...@boeing.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:14:55 GMT, jaw...@mediaone.net (James A. Wolf)
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Sean Bean's delivery was *perfect!*
>
>And for that one brief instant I swear he even *looked* like James
>Marsters. :-)
Who?
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Saw the film for the second time today, and realized that the
> Uruk-Hai are not in fact trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are
> actually sporting a handprint in white paint on their faces.
> -Too- cool!
Yes, it wasn't til my second viewing that I did a Homer
Simpson, slapping my forehead and saying "D'OH!
the White Hand of Saruman, of course! How could I have
missed that the first time?"
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Did
> Tolkien ever say whether there were any female orcs, or were they all
> magically produced, rather than born?
According to the non-official Guide to Middle Earth,
it says that Orcs are said to be "spawned".
Nyrath the nearly wise
> Jens Kilian <Jens_...@agilent.com> wrote:
> > There are *lots* of easy-to-miss details. For example, did you spot the
> > stone troll? Va gur fprar whfg orsber Nentbea nccrnef, Sebqb vf furygrerq
> > orybj n uhtr gebyy-funcrq ebpx.
>
> It may have been harder to see, depending on your theater; I was
> specifically looking for it the second time and couldn't make it
> out, and neither could Chad, who'd noticed it the first time.
I did see the stiff stone troll, one of the ones that
was mentioned in THE HOBBIT. I seem to remember it
in the scene shortly after Frodo gets in the
shoulder by the Nazgūl on Weathertop, just before
Arwen makes her appearance.
Nyrath the nearly wise
> In article <v0et8u875hcj40e4i...@4ax.com>,
> Chad R. Orzel <orz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:10:40 GMT, Jason Mulligan
> ><suli...@SPAM.bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >>Given that we lost THE great line of FOTR ("he who breaks a thing
> >>to see what it is has left the path of wisdom") I'm not getting
> >>my hopes up.
> >
> >spectroscopist by training, I tend to think of that line (
> >especially in context) as among the worst of the series...
>
> I'm a geneticist who works with fruit-flies. Almost all our
> wisdom was gained from "breaking" genes, and seeing what
> transpired...
Not to mention subatomic particle physicists, who's
every experiment involved breaking atomic nuclei.
Eddie Dubourg
"Nyrath the nearly wise" <nyr...@io.com> wrote in message
news:3C430502...@io.com...
So are frogs and toads, but there are males and females for both of them.
E
Andrew Ducker
> In article <63u54uoos2beqr5gj...@4ax.com>,
> Lee DeRaud <lee.d...@boeing.com> wrote:
>>On Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:14:55 GMT, jaw...@mediaone.net (James A. Wolf)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>My silly choice is "They have a rock troll!"
>>>
>>>Sean Bean's delivery was *perfect!*
>>
>>And for that one brief instant I swear he even *looked* like James
>>Marsters. :-)
>
> Who?
Spike in Buffy. Who took a one-note character who was supposed to have a
short life, and make him into a fantastic recurring character.
Andy D
Dorothy J Heydt
Jerry Friedman
> jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) wrote in message news:<96efe132.02011...@posting.google.com>...
> > Jason Mulligan <suli...@SPAM.bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<MPG.16a9571cd66906db9896ed@news-server>...
> > > In article <9b343e1e.02011...@posting.google.com>,
> > > triba...@hotmail.com says...
> > > > ....Christopher Lee delivering the line 'Dotard! What is the house of
> > > > Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their
> > > > brats roll on the floor among the dogs?' (best line in the books IMO)
> > >
> > > Yeah. That whole scene is my fave of TTT. I wonder what, if any of that
> > > scene was filmed.
> >
> > However, I felt in the FotR movie that Lee did not have the vocal
> > powers to do justice to that scene. Maybe with a little enhancement?
>
> Ahh! Please, no. If there was one thing that annoyed me about the
> movie, it's the tendency to substitute digital "enhancement" for
> ACTING. (See: Gandalf turning the atomic leaf-blower on Bilbo, Bilbo's
> eyes bugging out when he sees the Ring again, Galadriel). The
> "slogging through Mordor" scenes in the third movie could be VERY
> painful.
I know what you mean, but first of all, I was thinking of something
considerably more subtle, like what's done to popular singers' voices.
We usually don't even notice that (though maybe that's because we're
so used to it).
Second of all, although I really disliked Galadriel's turning into a
special effect at her big moment, I thought later that you could make
a case for it. One of the trilogy's themes is the metaphysical
inferiority of evil. It's quite consistent with that for her to
become a cartoon when evil gets a toehold in her soul, just as Bilbo
starts to turn into Gollum. Against this idea: it's inconsistent with
Galadriel's line "I will diminish", and if they were going to
emphasize that theme they should have taken thirty seconds to leave in
the part about Galadriel's seeing into the Shadow in the East though
it doesn't know what she's thinking.
I suspect you should brace yourself, by the way, for special effects
on "I will not do this thing. The Ring is mine!"
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
> Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> > GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@127.0.0.1> writes:
>
> >>Bitstring <3C40B877...@erols.com>, from the wonderful person
> >>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> said
> >>>
> >>>I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
> >>>between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
> >>>film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
> >>>trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
> >>>white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
>
> >>you had read the book.
>
> > Urr?
>
> > You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
> > one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
>
> *still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
> viewing.
>
> two times.
I missed it too. However, I did catch a sly "hommage" to an earlier
movie. At least I was hearing, in my mind's ear, someone singing
In just seven days [and seven nights!]
I can make you an Uruk-hai!
(What I'm saying is that I thought that scene should have been cut.
They could have used the time to let Strider say, "I am older than I
look. I might prove useful.")
--
Jerry Friedman
Andrew Plotkin
> jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) writes:
>> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
>> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
>> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
>> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
>> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
> What bugged me was that a lot of people *laughed* at that line. That may be
> a shibboleth(sp?) to distinguish people who've read the book from those who
> haven't; if you think it's a joke, you haven't.
The way Wood delivered it, it *was* sort of funny -- a befuddled
afterthought. It was very different from the way I hear it in my head.
A small disappointment.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Kate Nepveu
> Jens Kilian <Jens_...@agilent.com> wrote:
>> jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) writes:
>>> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
>>> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
>>> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
>>> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
>>> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
>> What bugged me was that a lot of people *laughed* at that line. That may be
>> a shibboleth(sp?) to distinguish people who've read the book from those who
>> haven't; if you think it's a joke, you haven't.
> The way Wood delivered it, it *was* sort of funny -- a befuddled
> afterthought. It was very different from the way I hear it in my head.
> A small disappointment.
That's not how I heard it; I heard it as realizing the weight he'd
taken upon himself, just as Gandalf's expression did.
Rick
> The way Wood delivered it, it *was* sort of funny -- a befuddled
> afterthought. It was very different from the way I hear it in my head.
> A small disappointment.
Naw, it didn't come across as a befuddled afterthought at all. It came
through just the way I read it in the book: earnest, sincere, tinged with
the forboding of one who is stepping into something he doesn't completely
understand.
Richard Harter
Dege) wrote:
>On 14 Jan 2002 13:24:22 +0100, Jens Kilian <Jens_...@agilent.com> wrote:
>>jerry_f...@yahoo.com (Jerry Friedman) writes:
>>> The line I missed the most from the FotR movie was, "I am older than I
>>> look. I might prove useful." The line I was most relieved to hear
>>> was, "I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way," which I
>>> thought was delivered rather well, though I'd have preferred they led
>>> up to it with everyone, rather than no one, looking at Frodo.
>>
>>What bugged me was that a lot of people *laughed* at that line. That may be
>>a shibboleth(sp?) to distinguish people who've read the book from those who
>>haven't; if you think it's a joke, you haven't.
>
>If I remember the scene, Gimli laughed at the line, or started to,
>until Gloin shushed him.
You memory, like the ring you wear, has betrayed you. Bilbo first
volunteers to take the ring. Gloin smiles, not in amusement, but in
fond memory. After a bit more palaver Frodo volunteers; nobody
smiles.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net,
http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, http://www.varinoma.com
Love, no matter how pure, is the most selfish of gifts.
For that reason it is the one gift that must be given.
Brenda W. Clough
> In article <a1uafr$e...@netaxs.com>,
> Nancy Lebovitz <na...@unix1.netaxs.com> wrote:
> >
> >On the other hand, I thought Elrond was too funny-looking to be a
> >plausible Elf.
>
> Well, he's only Halfelven.
>
IMO Elrond looked more Elfish than Galadriel.
I did note some very clever casting among the Elves -- they all have
the same facial cast and look, so that they make a wonderfully
convincing different race. One imagines the casting director flipping
through ring-binders full of head shots, seeking out all the Kiwi
actors with really great cheekbones and well-proportioned jaw lines,
and then buying long straight blonde wigs in bulk.
Brenda
--
What do you do with a secret?
Whisper it in a desert at high noon.
Lock it up and bury the key.
Tell the nation on prime-time TV.
Choose a door . . .
Doors of Death and Life
by Brenda W. Clough
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda
Tor Books
ISBN 0-312-87064-7
Brenda W. Clough
> "Cosmin Corbea" <cosminc@no_spam_pls.canada.com.invalid> writes:
>
> >And the Gimli-Legolas friendship story seems to have fallen by the wayside
> >too (we'll find out next Christmas, I guess). It makes Gimli (and Legolas)
> >hardly more than background; honestly, I'd have liked less teary eyed
> >staring and more character development.
>
> And while you're at it, I'd like less hugging.
>
Hear him, hear him.
Brenda <rapping knuckles on table>
Brenda W. Clough
> In article <a1tkd5$ck3$3...@news.panix.com>,
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
> >> one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
> >
> >Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
> >*still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
> >viewing.
>
> Well, in the book IIRC they didn't have white hand-prints on
> their faces, they had heraldic images of a hand apaumee argent on
> their helms and shields.
>
> Still looks good, though, in the sense that it looks very Orcish.
>
Yes, and a fine example of how the movie-makers can update and alter the
book slightly (if Gene Simmons can be termed up to date) but still
adhere to the spirit of the book perfectly.
Brenda
Brenda W. Clough
> Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> > GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@127.0.0.1> writes:
>
> >>Bitstring <3C40B877...@erols.com>, from the wonderful person
> >>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> said
> >>>
> >>>I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
> >>>between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
> >>>film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
> >>>trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
> >>>white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
>
> >>Yep, that was one of the few items that you likely wouldn't spot unless
> >>you had read the book.
>
> > Urr?
>
> > You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
> > one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
>
> Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
> *still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
> viewing.
>
> I felt pretty dumb then, but there you are: I didn't spot it the first
> two times.
>
I missed the handprinting bit -- I wonder what I was looking at?
Brenda W. Clough
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message news:<a1tkd5$ck3$3...@news.panix.com>...
> > Joseph Michael Bay <jm...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> > > GSV Three Minds in a Can <G...@127.0.0.1> writes:
> >
> > >>Bitstring <3C40B877...@erols.com>, from the wonderful person
> > >>Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> said
> > >>>
> > >>>I am looking forward to testy dialogue, personality conflict and grunting
> > >>>between the fighting Uruk-Hai and the common or garden variety orcs. Saw the
> > >>>film for the second time today, and realized that the Uruk-Hai are not in fact
> > >>>trying to out-KISS Gene Simmons. They are actually sporting a handprint in
> > >>>white paint on their faces. -Too- cool!
> >
> > >>Yep, that was one of the few items that you likely wouldn't spot unless
> > >>you had read the book.
> >
> > > Urr?
> >
> > > You mean like the bit where the one Uruk-Hai grabs the other
> > > one's face and leaves a big white hand print?
> >
> > Hey, I noticed that scene *and* I'm familiar with the books, and I
> > *still* didn't realize what the white splotches were until my third
> > viewing.
> >
> > I felt pretty dumb then, but there you are: I didn't spot it the first
> > two times.
>
> I missed it too. However, I did catch a sly "hommage" to an earlier
> movie. At least I was hearing, in my mind's ear, someone singing
>
The other thing I realized this time around was that of -course- the Elves have to have doodads
and keen little braids in their hair. They're elflocks.
Joseph Michael Bay
I agree. If he'd said it all portentously it wouldn't be consistent
with his situation and his demeanor. After all, he's just had his
fill of adventuring getting to *Rivendell*. He's incredibly courageous,
not fearless. He also doesn't see himself as a hero.
--
Joseph M. Bay Lamont Sanford Junior University
Putting the "harm" in molecular pharmacology since 1998
When crime is outlawed, only outlaws will commit crimes.
LEGALIZE http://www.stanford.edu/~jmbay CRIME
Greer Gilman
: In article <3C41E698...@erols.com>,
: Brenda W. Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
:>>
:>> I just wish Galadriel's speech hadn't been quite so digitally
:>> "enhanced". Bad enough she turned gray and started shining,
:>> does she have to be practically unintelligable as well?
:>
:>Galadriel is the biggest disappointment of the film, in my opinion.
: I think she's horrible ... because Elves should be beautiful,
: dammit, and she has a nose like a knife blade and little piggy
: eyes like ME. But my son thinks she's beautiful, so I guess it
: really is in the eye of the beholder.
Odd. I thought she was austere and lovely, like a breathing Botticelli.
And the back of my neck said "goddess."
I don't much like the voice distortion, but I would've hated the Blue
Fairy.
Greer Gilman
Nyrath the nearly wise
> I did note some very clever casting among the Elves -- they all have
> the same facial cast and look, so that they make a wonderfully
> convincing different race. One imagines the casting director flipping
> through ring-binders full of head shots, seeking out all the Kiwi
> actors with really great cheekbones and well-proportioned jaw lines,
> and then buying long straight blonde wigs in bulk.
In one of the "Making Of LOTR" TV shows, they had an
interview with a woman from the casting department.
They wanted plenty of tall, blond, handsome/beautiful
actors/actressess. The lady from casting went on to
say "we hated them all..."
(i.e., being surrounded by such California-esque beautiful
people is rough on one's self-image)
Nyrath the nearly wise
> I suspect you should brace yourself, by the way, for special effects
> on "I will not do this thing. The Ring is mine!"
Not to mention "I am Samwise the Strong!"
Richard Harter
Friedman) wrote:
You've just ruined my day.