If Aesop was a BOFH, he'd have a fable like this...
Steed
I roll into the office on a Saturday not too long ago. Now, my Saturdays
tend to be quiet - no damned lusers calling me, little e-mail to answer...
it's a paid ride. In fact, I spend most of the time reading novels,
checking web-comics, playing with my GBA [1], and (occasionally) studying
up on sysadminning to justify a raise.
I like my Saturdays - it's a nice break from the usual flood of
cluelessness that I (and we all) deal with daily. I get paid to - basically
- babysit a bunch of servers that are generally well-behaved. Usual worst
case - I have to leave the Terminal of Hell, ride the elevator, hit the
datacenter, and reboot a box.
So, for a few precious hours, it looked like it would be a normal
Saturday... right up until I got a call from my PHB.
The PHB calls me and says that a hard drive died in our new web-server [2].
OK, no big issue: we got RAID. Get the new SCA drive, pull the bad drive
out of the RAID array, bolt-up the new drive to the cradle, shove that into
the server, rebuild the RAID array, and go on my merry way.
Of course, if it were that simple, I wouldn't have a rant.
Normally, a RAID array rebuilds the existing data onto the replacement
drive to replace the dead one. In this case, the array decided to rebuild
the array from the new blank drive onto the rest of the drives [3].
Needless to say, the array went down in flames.
Due to the way we hosted the system, we were able to overlay the file-
structure and databases from the system-control server. So - we had the
system, the mail, the DNS, the spiffy graphical control panels...
everything except the luser's actual websites.
We then said to the lusers "sorry - massive hardware failure - re-upload
your data and all will be well - we'll give you a month of free hosting as
an apology". Much to my surprise, some 90 or 95% of the lusers replied "OK
- you guys can't see these things coming - I understand - thanks for the
free month - apology accepted - I'll re-upload - we're all cool".
Now, that's 90 or 95% of the (l)users [4]. 5 - 10% said "I can't believe
you numb fscks!" etc., etc. This is the story of one of those [5]...
The Monday after the system-crash, I got this one call (among several
others, but this one stood out). Here's the layout - woman had a hosting
account with us a few years back - which I'll call 'x.net'. We did DNS,
web, mail, everything for x.net. Then, she decided to take her site to one
of those atrocious 'web-malls' - making her site 'x.some-web-mall.com'.
But she wanted to keep the name x.net and forward that to x.some-virtual-
mall.com. OK - no problem there. She was paying us for a simple account, so
we re-directed the DNS for her (this occured before I was employed at the
company).
Enter: me. After a few months on the job, I got a commandment from the PHB
- all 'deadbeat' and cancelled accounts were to be deleted to reclaim
resource on the server. No problem - I deleted several hundred accounts in
the space of two or three days.
Guess who was one of these accounts. Yep! You got it - x.net! Chickie
hadn't paid us for our services in 12 damn months! She got deleted for not
paying us what she owed [6]. For a damned *year*!
Of course, the day after I deleted her, she calls us all pissed-off. "How
dare you delete me!?" "Ma'am, you haven't paid us for a year. Perhaps if
you pay us what you owe, we may be encouraged to restore your account." was
the essence of the little chat I had with her.
Not only that, but our VP-of-Sales [7] said "Ma'am, you took us for a ride.
You'll be paying off what you owe, *and* paying us for a year's service in
*advance*. *Then* we'll set you back up."
So, the money came in and we put her into the new system. And we were
presented with a problem - she was in a virtual-mall with a single shared-
IP for an Imperial-assload of sites. Our other BOFH and I wrestled with the
problem and decided that a DNS-redirect - like in the old system - wouldn't
work with the new software (which, even weeks later, we *still* think it
wouldn't).
So, we hacked together a five-line HTML meta-tag index.html redirect from
x.net to x.some-virtual-mall.com. Easy-peasy, and it worked like a charm.
Of course - remember what I said before: the web data was deleted when the
RAID array ate itself.
So - that Monday. She calls up and just *rants* at me, wasting a half-an-
hour of my life. According to her, I was no less than Satan-on-Earth and
was engaged in a multi-dimensional conspiracy to keep her redirect from
working [8]!
Then I employed a lesson from our Senior NT-admin [9] - the more they rage
at you, the more calm and metered a tone you should have. It drives them
fscking *nuts* when they can't piss you off. Naturally, seeing that she
wouldn't rile me, she demanded to speak to my supervisor.
Just then, our VP-Sales walked in. I made him aware of the problem (he
*immediately* remembered this nutcase, as he's the one who made her pay a
year in advance before we even *thought* about re-instating her account).
He kept her occupied while I repaired the problem and restored the HTML
redirect.
Now, let's look a little deeper into this problem. The *entire* redirect
was handled in HTML. No admin clearance, no root-pass needed, *all* in dumb
HTML and immediately accessable to the luser. And, when we first put her
into the new system, I *told* her, step-by-step, how I was doing the
redirect. And the HTML code was on our server for over a month before the
RAID array ate itself.
So - I told her how it was done. And the data was completely available to
her with a simple FTP-session. And the source-code could be right-clicked
off of the redirected website.
Despite all this, it was somehow *my* fault that I didn't remember the
hostname that the HTML redirect went to, the precise location of her vhost.
that it was *my* fault that the RAID array went faulty, that... you get the
drift. Tgnoring the fact that I oversee tens of thousands of accounts, and
that's not counting several-hundred colocation-servers and dedicated-
servers...
In the end, she wasted a half-an-hour of *my* time bitching about our
service. The fix took less than 20 seconds - by hand - in vi - including
the time it took to look up the meta-tag syntax on google [10] - which she
could have done herself if she *actually* cared about her redirect and
either listened to my instructions or checked out the source for herself.
She then wasted half-an-hour of our VP-Sales' time by ranting about how we
suck and that we're evilly trying to keep her offline.
Bitch - if you think we suck so much, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING
BUSINESS WITH US!?
This baffles me - at least once a week, I get a call from someone who
thinks that we (or I, myself, *personally*) are evilly trying to screw
them... yet they don't go to another host.
If we suck so much in your tiny view of shared-hosting reality, GO THE HELL
SOMEWHERE ELSE! Our techs - overworked and overstressed enough already -
don't need the routine aggrevation of you not only ranting us out, but then
*not paying* for the service that's been shut off for non-payment!
The moral, you ask? Lusers sign up an account, don't pay for a year, ignore
our billing-department trying to contact them, ignore that their website is
offline... and only *after* I permamantly delete their e-mail accounts and
DNS entries do they call... and somehow, it's *MY* fault that they didn't
pay, got turned off, got deleted, and so on.
The moral is that, in the eyes of the luser, it's *always* *your* fault
that things aren't prefect. Ignore the problems of a shared-server, ignore
actively not paying, ignore the billing department... it's always the fault
of the poor BOFH who takes the call.
Oi... I'm getting too old for this crap.
--
Adam
Justice for the many.
Justice for the free.
Let each man be paid in full;
That's just enough for me.
[0] - I ork on Saturdays in exchange for Fridays off - I prefer it that way
for a multitude of reasons.
[1] Game Boy Advance. Currently working on beating 'Golden Sun' in
preparation for 'Golden Sun 2'.
[2] I'm currently employed by a web-hosting company.
[3] That's my best guess. Of all the admins and techs we have in the
company - somewhere between 50 and 100 years of combined experience - we've
never seen an array eat itself like this.
[4] I can't really call that slice 'lusers', as they grokked the problem
and worked with us above and beyond the call of system-use. For a while,
they restored my faith in humanity... until...
[5] This boggles me. I got two phone-calls the business-day after the crash
that factor in here - calls that basically blasted our quality-of-service,
people who seemed to feel that we were in collaboration with Satan to keep
their sites offline... and one - the one I'm talking about - tried to make
it personal: it was *my* fault that her 'site' was offline, that *I* was
Satan himself... you know the drill.
[6] Our standing policy - if we have a deadbeat, we halt their vhost. We
give them a month or three. If they don't pay, we change their password for
everything (FTP, mail admin, statistics, FrontPage ::shudder::, etc.) to
something random. All the while, our billing department tries to contact
them in every way they can think of - e-mail, phone calls, US-Postal mail,
faxes... everything. If they still don't pay, we delete the account as a
last resort.
[7] Despite what you may think, our Sales VP is an all-right guy. He's the
only salesman I've ever respected. I think it's because he was a tech
before going into sales, and *remembers* what it's like for us admins...
[8] Bear in mind - at this point, she was paying for our chepatest possible
hosting account. She was paying less than $10/month for 5MB of space on a
shared-server and freaking *demanded* perfect 100% uptime. She proceeded to
tell me how many thousands of dollars she made per day on the site.
Reality-check, lady! If you're making that much money and want perfect
service, get yourself a server-cluster with multiple-redundant routing and
web-hosting - get your dumb-ass off shared-server hosting!
[9] He's an NT-admin *now*, but he was a UNIX geek back in the day. He only
switched to the Dark Side because the company needed him to. To this day,
he still longs for the clean, elegant simplicity of a proper UNIX command-
line. Despite all this, he's a great guy to work with and a true geek to
his core.
[10] Yeah, it's pretty basic... but I haven't had to do any such work in a
*long* time, so I was a bit rusty.
rich
>
>Bitch - if you think we suck so much, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING
>BUSINESS WITH US!?
With such a clueful VP of sales, I would think that the suggestion could be
forthcoming to tell this luser that you don't need her custom, and to take
it on the road. Let some other site have the headaches.
--
Linux, the ultimate Windows Service Pack.
Registered Linux user 220048 on http://counter.li.org
Linux host mrcoffee up 6 days, 14:43, 3 users, load average: 0.54, 0.67, 0.66
Steed
@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> With such a clueful VP of sales, I would think that the suggestion could be
> forthcoming to tell this luser that you don't need her custom, and to take
> it on the road. Let some other site have the headaches.
Oh, he tried. He tried quite hard. She just refused to take the hint.
Ross J. Reedstrom
Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> wrote:
>I heard the voice of ro...@127.0.0.1 (rich) utter in news:3w0h9.13547$6j2.5393
>@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>> With such a clueful VP of sales, I would think that the suggestion could be
>> forthcoming to tell this luser that you don't need her custom, and to take
>> it on the road. Let some other site have the headaches.
>Oh, he tried. He tried quite hard. She just refused to take the hint.
You miss the point - business is a transaction, requiring two
participants. You know, the old 'two to tango' thing. _Refuse_ her
business - you've got plenty of legal cover (not paying for a year
should do it), and it shouldn't be hard to convince said VP of sales
that a 1/2 hour of _his_ time, let alone yours, is not worth the cheapest
account. It's not like she's not already giving you bad word of mouth. An
incredibly polite letter informing her that here current contract will
not be renewed, and to start making other arrangements now. If he can
swing it (terms of service, buried in the fine print?) refund the balance
and boot her at the end ofthe month!
Ross
Steed
utter in news:am2ktv$sjs$1...@wallace.ece.rice.edu:
> You miss the point - business is a transaction, requiring two
> participants. You know, the old 'two to tango' thing. _Refuse_ her
> business - you've got plenty of legal cover (not paying for a year
> should do it), and it shouldn't be hard to convince said VP of sales
> that a 1/2 hour of _his_ time, let alone yours, is not worth the
> cheapest account. It's not like she's not already giving you bad word of
> mouth. An incredibly polite letter informing her that here current
> contract will not be renewed, and to start making other arrangements
> now. If he can swing it (terms of service, buried in the fine print?)
> refund the balance and boot her at the end ofthe month!
Hm. You pose a valid argument. I'll bear this in mind the next time she
decides to irritate me.
James Andrew
> > You miss the point - business is a transaction, requiring two
> > participants. You know, the old 'two to tango' thing. _Refuse_ her
> > business - you've got plenty of legal cover (not paying for a year
> > should do it), and it shouldn't be hard to convince said VP of sales
> > that a 1/2 hour of _his_ time, let alone yours, is not worth the
> > cheapest account. It's not like she's not already giving you bad word of
> > mouth. An incredibly polite letter informing her that here current
> > contract will not be renewed, and to start making other arrangements
> > now. If he can swing it (terms of service, buried in the fine print?)
> > refund the balance and boot her at the end ofthe month!
>
> Hm. You pose a valid argument. I'll bear this in mind the next time she
> decides to irritate me.
Why bother waiting? You -know- it's only a matter of time. Get that
preemptive strike in now, whilst she's not expecting it.
Jim
--
j...@magrathea.plus.com AIM:JCAndrew2 Grey...@mac.com
"We deal in the moral equivalent of black holes, where the normal
laws of right and wrong break down; beyond those metaphysical
event horizons there exist ... special circumstances" - Use Of Weapons
Steed
news:1fiklnv.9ulfv94ht5k2N%j...@magrathea.plus.com:
>> Hm. You pose a valid argument. I'll bear this in mind the next time she
>> decides to irritate me.
>
> Why bother waiting? You -know- it's only a matter of time. Get that
> preemptive strike in now, whilst she's not expecting it.
Not my call, sadly. Because of the company structure, I'm not in a position
to make a move. However, I can very easily make a recommendation on the next
occasion and - thanks to the comments above - form a persuading argument for
cutting her loose [0].
'sides - this was weeks ago and the management involved has cooled off. If I
wait until they're riled by this twit again, I have a higher probability of
using their mind-sets to advantage and getting them to agree with me.
--
Adam
Justice for the many.
Justice for the free.
Let each man be paid in full;
That's just enough for me.
[0] It's like a perl script - I just have to make sure that there are dollar-
signs in my arguments. Time wasted is money wasted.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 10:04 AM, Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> said:
>Needless to say, the array went down in flames.
Take three deep breathes, then think about what you should have done
earlier but didn't.
>Now, that's 90 or 95% of the (l)users [4]. 5 - 10% said "I can't
>believe you numb fscks!" etc., etc. This is the story of one of
>those [5]...
They were right, although perhaps not for the reasons they gave.
>Despite all this, it was somehow *my* fault
Of course. You were the last one to drop the ball, and a creature such
as you described can't be expected to remember diddly squat. Nor can
she be expected to understand just how insignificant she[1] and her
account are in the grand scheme of things.
[1] I don't normally advise treating small accounts like dirt. But
when they've been a year in arrears and still demand good service, . .
.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
A man's P should exceed his V
else what's a sema for?
Marc Haber
>This baffles me - at least once a week, I get a call from someone who
>thinks that we (or I, myself, *personally*) are evilly trying to screw
>them... yet they don't go to another host.
OTOH, people keep saying "guys, you're doing a great job. I love your
servers, and I love your service - but I will be leaving you next
month for an outfit that is $3,44 per year cheaper than you are".
Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
Steed
news:am2unh$g7r$1...@q.bofh.de:
> OTOH, people keep saying "guys, you're doing a great job. I love your
> servers, and I love your service - but I will be leaving you next
> month for an outfit that is $3,44 per year cheaper than you are".
And that's fine - if people call me up and say "no problems with you guys,
but I've found the same service at a lower price, so I'm going over there"
[0], then that's cool. "Sorry to see you go, but let's see what we can do so
that you'll leave us on a high-note". Reasonable business decision, presented
in a reasonable manner.
It's the unreasonable, turning into irrational, that's a problem.
--
Adam
Justice for the many.
Justice for the free.
Let each man be paid in full;
That's just enough for me.
[0] Which some do, on occasion. A few a month at most. Which is too bad for
us - customers like this are the ones we want to hang onto.
Bogdan Iamandei [ROT13]
> It was shaping up to be yet another Saturday at ork [0]
Could I question you as to what happened to *all* your references?
not just this post - but the rest of your answers too.
Ino!~
--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.
Steed
in news:am32ar$si9$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au:
> Could I question you as to what happened to *all* your references?
> not just this post - but the rest of your answers too.
They *should* be right below my sig. They showed up when I received my
post...
Bogdan Iamandei [ROT13]
> I heard the voice of "Bogdan Iamandei [ROT13] " <ino...@nqzvaonfr.arg> utter
> in news:am32ar$si9$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au:
>
>> Could I question you as to what happened to *all* your references?
>> not just this post - but the rest of your answers too.
>
> They *should* be right below my sig. They showed up when I received my
> post...
<checking the other news-swerver> ah - I see. Somehow they were
snipped by this one. I wonder if they were considered one fsking big
signature. Hmm.
Steed
> <checking the other news-swerver> ah - I see. Somehow they were
> snipped by this one. I wonder if they were considered one fsking big
> signature. Hmm.
Hm. Entirely possible. I'll change where I put them from now on. Thanks for
making me aware.
Earl Grey
> Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> said:
> > Needless to say, the array went down in flames.
>
> Take three deep breathes, then think about what you should have done
> earlier but didn't.
I was kinda wondering the same thing. There was one datapoint that was,
how shall we say ... CONSPICUOUS ... by its absence.
--
Louis Wu, I found your complaint verbose. In challenging a Spammer,
a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.
Marc Haber
>I heard the voice of Marc Haber <mh+use...@zugschlus.de> utter in
>news:am2unh$g7r$1...@q.bofh.de:
>> OTOH, people keep saying "guys, you're doing a great job. I love your
>> servers, and I love your service - but I will be leaving you next
>> month for an outfit that is $3,44 per year cheaper than you are".
>
>And that's fine - if people call me up and say "no problems with you guys,
>but I've found the same service at a lower price, so I'm going over there"
>[0], then that's cool.
I didn't say that the other outfit reaches the same service for the
lower price. Nowadays, customers tend to leave for $HUGE_TELCO which
then swiftly proceeds to leave ex-customer without MX records in
freshly moved domains for a week.
Grüße
jgut...@brokersys.com
> Bitch - if you think we suck so much, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING
> BUSINESS WITH US!?
That, sir, is one of the great mysteries of life. I have searched for
the answer to that question for years, and have, as yet, been unable to
find someone who could give a satisfactory answer.
--
Jonathan Guthrie (jgut...@brokersys.com)
Sto pro veritate
Queen Of Swords @ home
<dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> tapped out:
>In the end, she wasted a half-an-hour of *my* time bitching about our
>service. The fix took less than 20 seconds - by hand - in vi - including
>the time it took to look up the meta-tag syntax on google [10] - which she
>could have done herself if she *actually* cared about her redirect and
>either listened to my instructions or checked out the source for herself.
>She then wasted half-an-hour of our VP-Sales' time by ranting about how we
>suck and that we're evilly trying to keep her offline.
>
>Bitch - if you think we suck so much, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STILL DOING
>BUSINESS WITH US!?
>
>This baffles me - at least once a week, I get a call from someone who
>thinks that we (or I, myself, *personally*) are evilly trying to screw
>them... yet they don't go to another host.
>
Why yes, I can empathise with this rant. Where I ork,
$Place'O'Names[1], contact details on qbznvaf should be automagically
updated by the Psychic Friends Network when lusers hop resellers,
ertvfgenef, and jroubfgvat pbzcnavrf. Or at least, that's what a
succession of lusing women [2] have indignantly told me. It is in
fact, our fault $luserdomain does not work, and our fault that luser's
Very Important Bizness is losing money. And I am eeevil, and damn it
someone has to pay for the indignity, it might as well be the QOS who
is on the phone to them and *currently the only person who can help
them* [3] .
My other pet hate is LuserMonks. Yes, they exist. No! I will *not*
tell you how to do a redirect/port forward/zone file! You are getting
paid *how* much more than me and you can't RTFM!? Yes, you need a
password! Yes, you ALWAYS needed a password! Well, this century
anyway!
*gasp gasp*
Anybody want a PFY?
[1] Who only recently aquired the ability to tell lusers of various
types Where To Go.
[2] The blokes get grumpy but overall they are more patient, and
aren't madly trying to exert as much control over their pathetic
little lives as they can muster by being snarky. I happen to also be
of the female persuasion, but I prefer real power to the imaginary,
'Wow, I really showed them (my own ignorance) at $faceless
corporation!' kind.
[3] Why do lusers miss this important concept?
--
Queen Of Swords, just warming my hands by the Duron.
Queen Of Swords @ home
(Queen Of Swords @ home) tapped out:
>contact details on qbznvaf should be automagically
>updated by the Psychic Friends Network when lusers hop resellers,
>ertvfgenef, and jroubfgvat pbzcnavrf. Or at least, that's what a
>succession of lusing women [2] have indignantly told me. It is in
>fact, our fault $luserdomain does not work, and our fault that luser's
>Very Important Bizness is losing money.
should) following a protracted flurry of email to said addresses. SOP
really.
Niklas Karlsson
> Why yes, I can empathise with this rant. Where I ork,
> $Place'O'Names[1], contact details on qbznvaf should be automagically
>
> [1] Who only recently aquired the ability to tell lusers of various
> types Where To Go.
Now there's an ability[0] I'd like to acquire. I know exactly where I'd
like to tell lusers, of any type, to go.
Niklas
[0] Okay, so I have the ability. I want to *get away* with it, though.
Joe Zeff
wrote:
>I heard the voice of ro...@127.0.0.1 (rich) utter in news:3w0h9.13547$6j2.5393
>@tornadotest1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> With such a clueful VP of sales, I would think that the suggestion could be
>> forthcoming to tell this luser that you don't need her custom, and to take
>> it on the road. Let some other site have the headaches.
>
>Oh, he tried. He tried quite hard. She just refused to take the hint.
We have a way that *always* works: we send them a letter telling them
that it appears that we can't give them the service they want, and
will be removing the account in thirty days. This gives them time to
get other service set up, after which we cancel them and don't allow
them to sign up again.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
"Oh no, not another learning experience..."
http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz
James Andrew
> Not my call, sadly. Because of the company structure, I'm not in a position
> to make a move. However, I can very easily make a recommendation on the next
> occasion and - thanks to the comments above - form a persuading argument for
> cutting her loose
There is always the 'accidently alter the HTML redirect so it points to
http://www.honkinggreatjubblies.com'[0] option...?
Jim
[0] The address of a real site of said nature is left to the discretion
of the reader...
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 09:58 PM, Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> said:
>And that's fine - if people call me up and say "no problems with you
>guys, but I've found the same service at a lower price, so I'm going
>over there"
UNless the price difference is huge, that's generally a mistake. But
that's a lesson that the customer will have to learn for herself.
Steed
> There is always the 'accidently alter the HTML redirect so it points to
> http://www.honkinggreatjubblies.com'[0] option...?
>
> Jim
> [0] The address of a real site of said nature is left to the discretion
> of the reader...
::chuckle:: I remember something similar. We had this massive deadbeat - into
us for several hundred dollars [0] and vehemently refusing to pay us.
Somehow, the zone file for his primary domain got tangled up with the zone
file of a male-pornography domain on the same server. ::shrug:: Call me a
Bastard if I know how that happened.
Sure enough, buddy calls up to complain. Like I told him, I'm not allowed to
perform any repairs on an account that is not up-to-date - sorry, company
policy, perhaps if you spoke to our billing department brought your account
up to date I might be able to fix it.
I transferred him to Billing. We had our money in under 30 seconds. He had
his site back up in under 60.
--
Adam
Justice for the many.
Justice for the free.
Let each man be paid in full;
That's just enough for me.
[0] At a grand total of about $60/month total for several hosting packages,
that takes a while to do.
Ignatios Souvatzis
"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
> In <ko7h9.8721$kT1....@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>, on 09/15/2002
> at 09:58 PM, Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> said:
>
>>And that's fine - if people call me up and say "no problems with you
>>guys, but I've found the same service at a lower price, so I'm going
>>over there"
>
> UNless the price difference is huge, that's generally a mistake. But
> that's a lesson that the customer will have to learn for herself.
Even if the price difference is huge... discount prices are usually only
valid until the competitors are out of the market.
Regards,
-is
Steed
utter in news:am9nd6$quu$1...@f1node01.rhrz.uni-bonn.de:
> Even if the price difference is huge... discount prices are usually only
> valid until the competitors are out of the market.
Or, until those offering the discount have accomplished the reason for the
discount. My company did this last year - lower prices, and incentives (free
registration, no set-up fee, etc.) for pre-paid contracts. Reason we did so
was to generate a burst of revenue to expand the server-pool and hire a few
more people.
Mission accomplished, summer-special over, we put the prices back to where
they were before. Left a few of those 'term-incentives' in, though.
Queen Of Swords @ home
>> I have no plans to stop using such
>>tropes myself. Ctrl-3 won't hurt you any more than Ctrl-r hurts me.
>
>You're old enough to know better, ya slack prick.
Apologies, I just wanted to make the subject matter reasonably
impervious to googling, what with the terminology being quite specific
within this *cough* domain. Is ROT13 better applied to individual
words, or whole passages for ease of perusal?
Joe Zeff
(Queen Of Swords @ home) wrote:
>Is ROT13 better applied to individual
>words, or whole passages for ease of perusal?
IMO, if the words to be ROTed are all near each other, the passage
containing them should be ROTed together, to keep from having to go
back and forth, or highlighting individual words, depending on your
newsreader.
--
Joe Zeff
The Guy With the Sideburns
another clue like that and I may have to start thinking.
http://www.lasfs.org http://home.earthlink.net/~sidebrnz
Bron Gondwana
Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> wrote:
> I heard the voice of Marc Haber <mh+use...@zugschlus.de> utter in
> news:am2unh$g7r$1...@q.bofh.de:
>
> > OTOH, people keep saying "guys, you're doing a great job. I love your
> > servers, and I love your service - but I will be leaving you next
> > month for an outfit that is $3,44 per year cheaper than you are".
>
> And that's fine - if people call me up and say "no problems with you guys,
> but I've found the same service at a lower price, so I'm going over there"
> [0], then that's cool. "Sorry to see you go, but let's see what we can do so
> that you'll leave us on a high-note". Reasonable business decision, presented
> in a reasonable manner.
With possibly a "I'll see you when you realise that they're crap and
come back" thrown in.
Bron.
Bron Gondwana
Steed <dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> wrote:
> Normally, a RAID array rebuilds the existing data onto the replacement
> drive to replace the dead one. In this case, the array decided to rebuild
> the array from the new blank drive onto the rest of the drives [3].
> Needless to say, the array went down in flames.
Hardware fucks up, fact of life.
> Due to the way we hosted the system, we were able to overlay the file-
> structure and databases from the system-control server. So - we had the
> system, the mail, the DNS, the spiffy graphical control panels...
> everything except the luser's actual websites.
Ahh, you meant lusers' - not so confusing now I look again.
> We then said to the lusers "sorry - massive hardware failure - re-upload
> your data and all will be well - we'll give you a month of free hosting as
> an apology". Much to my surprise, some 90 or 95% of the lusers replied "OK
> - you guys can't see these things coming - I understand - thanks for the
> free month - apology accepted - I'll re-upload - we're all cool".
>
> Now, that's 90 or 95% of the (l)users [4]. 5 - 10% said "I can't believe
> you numb fscks!" etc., etc. This is the story of one of those [5]...
So where the fuck were your backups? I can understand saying "changes
in the past 24 hours may be lost, please check".
[SNIP: luser]
> So, we hacked together a five-line HTML meta-tag index.html redirect from
> x.net to x.some-virtual-mall.com. Easy-peasy, and it worked like a charm.
>
> Of course - remember what I said before: the web data was deleted when the
> RAID array ate itself.
And you didn't have backups because you're [cheap|lazy].
...
> into the new system, I *told* her, step-by-step, how I was doing the
> redirect. And the HTML code was on our server for over a month before the
> RAID array ate itself.
Plenty of time to take a backup in other words.
> So - I told her how it was done. And the data was completely available to
> her with a simple FTP-session. And the source-code could be right-clicked
> off of the redirected website.
She was paying you (eventually) for a redirection service, and yet she
was expected to keep a copy of the code to manage it, incase your
servers shat themselves?
> Despite all this, it was somehow *my* fault that I didn't remember the
> hostname that the HTML redirect went to, the precise location of her vhost.
> that it was *my* fault that the RAID array went faulty, that... you get the
> drift. Tgnoring the fact that I oversee tens of thousands of accounts, and
> that's not counting several-hundred colocation-servers and dedicated-
> servers...
No, you were supposed to keep backups - at least of the infrastructure
code like that redirect. I can understand not keeping an entire site
for each customer because of cost consideratiouns and being a budget
service - but I can't understand not even keeping index.html from each
site - at least for reference purposes.
> The moral is that, in the eyes of the luser, it's *always* *your* fault
> that things aren't prefect. Ignore the problems of a shared-server, ignore
> actively not paying, ignore the billing department... it's always the fault
> of the poor BOFH who takes the call.
Except when you're on the other end and the fuck who is supposed to be
providing 24 hour hosting not only hoses your site, but doesn't have a
backup and hence requires you to re-upload everything, even if the
master copy of that site isn't so accessible to you either (I'm on
holiday in Europe at the moment, and the master copies of some stuff I
have worked on only exist on a laptop which is in storage and the
desktop PC is backs up to - also in storage. If my live copy dies, it's
not so easy for me to just FTP it back)
I'm surprised nobody else has roasted you for not taking a backup before
performing such a dangerous operation (how many stories have you read
about RAID arrays that copy the blank disk over everything - this isn't
my first time hearing this story) and indeed not having backups in the
first place.
Luser.
Bron ( but no plonk, because it's more amusing baiting people and then
not having usenet access for a while due to non-SSH happy
net.cafe policies )
Steed
news:slrnaos4q9...@zebkrahn.brong.net:
> So where the fuck were your backups? I can understand saying "changes
> in the past 24 hours may be lost, please check".
> And you didn't have backups because you're [cheap|lazy].
It's a completely new hosting system - new nameservers, new mail server,
new web-servers, new control-system. About a dozen machines. It's too big
to fit into our existing backup network, which is almost at capacity
anyway. Why we didn't put in a new backup system? See below.
> I'm surprised nobody else has roasted you for not taking a backup before
> performing such a dangerous operation (how many stories have you read
> about RAID arrays that copy the blank disk over everything - this isn't
> my first time hearing this story) and indeed not having backups in the
> first place.
>
> Luser.
Save that for somebody who has it coming. It was my employer's bloody idea
to put up an entirely new infrastructure with no tape-backups - because he
refused to pay for it - and under his orders to do the array job anyway,
ignoring the risk. I wasn't given a choice.
How many times are we overruled by clueless bosses and end up getting the
heat ourselves... like above?
PHB.
Tanuki the Raccoon-dog
<br...@brong.net> said
For which you offer a special[1] "welcome back" tarriff...
[1]as in "specially inflated" and "with some serious penalties for
future cancellation".
--
!Raised Tails! -:Tanuki:-
"Security professionals know that people are inevitably the weakest link
in the security chain. We must therefore work to remove the opportunity
for human-error from each step of that chain. This means removing people.
Including you." -- From "_A_W_O_L_".
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 07:00 PM, Bron Gondwana <br...@brong.net> said:
>So where the fuck were your backups?
Why are you giving him UI?
>I'm surprised nobody else has roasted you for not taking a backup
It would have been UI.
Earl Grey
> Save that for somebody who has it coming. It was my employer's bloody idea
> to put up an entirely new infrastructure with no tape-backups - because he
> refused to pay for it - and under his orders to do the array job anyway,
> ignoring the risk. I wasn't given a choice.
You always have choices.
You should make one now.
Or at least, start planning for it.
Did you at least say, "I told you so..." ?
Draco
<dr.s...@NOSPAM.oraclenet.org> wrote:
>I heard the voice of Bron Gondwana <br...@brong.net> utter in
>news:slrnaos4q9...@zebkrahn.brong.net:
>
>> So where the fuck were your backups? I can understand saying "changes
>> in the past 24 hours may be lost, please check".
>> And you didn't have backups because you're [cheap|lazy].
>
>It's a completely new hosting system - new nameservers, new mail server,
>new web-servers, new control-system. About a dozen machines. It's too big
>to fit into our existing backup network, which is almost at capacity
>anyway. Why we didn't put in a new backup system? See below.
>
>> I'm surprised nobody else has roasted you for not taking a backup before
>> performing such a dangerous operation (how many stories have you read
>> about RAID arrays that copy the blank disk over everything - this isn't
>> my first time hearing this story) and indeed not having backups in the
>> first place.
>>
>> Luser.
>
>Save that for somebody who has it coming. It was my employer's bloody idea
>to put up an entirely new infrastructure with no tape-backups - because he
>refused to pay for it - and under his orders to do the array job anyway,
>ignoring the risk. I wasn't given a choice.
Ahh yes, a PHB in executive decision mode. One of the more destructive
forces known to man.
I was in the same situation a few jobs ago. A saledroid who got his
MCSE that week was blathering on about the virtues of a ENVQ-5 neenl
and how it eliminated the need for backups.
The PHB at the time was from the school of 'the salesman told me so',
and bypassed the technical signoff.
Once the kit arrived, (of course I wasn't informed about this in
advance, don't be silly) a showdown of sorts occured.
A quick[1] lesson in probability and statistics, and he finally sees
the light[2]. However, since he has already cancelled the backup
service, he sees no alternitive than to proceed.
This attitude 180'ed FAST when I emailed him[3] a document for his
signature detailing that I had informed him of the risks involved with
his decision and absolving me of all responsibility for when things
when pyriformic.
>How many times are we overruled by clueless bosses and end up getting the
>heat ourselves... like above?
I don't play that game any more. In any new workplace, I make sure the
resident boss knows I will not be held responsible unless he can
produce the technical sign-off which has my signature on it. Don't
like that? See ya. Suprisingly, I have never lost a job to this
attitude.
Draco
[1] FSVO. He was originally of the mind that 'If a coin lands heads
three times in a row, the next flip is more likely to be a tail' it
took a while to drum things into him. Quicker than explaining what a
ENVQ-5 neenl actually is however.
[2] I swear I saw the bulb light up. He went from willfully ignorant
to partially informed in an instant. Looked incredibly painful.
[3] bcc'ed to his boss. I am a Bastard after all.
Greg Andrews
>
>How many times are we overruled by clueless bosses and end up getting the
>heat ourselves... like above?
>
Every time.
-Greg
--
::::::::::::::: Greg Andrews :::::: ge...@panix.com :::::::::::::::
I've got a cartload of hungry hounds ordered for 17:29,
and a fox to staple to by ex-boss' arse.
-- Andy Davidson
Bron Gondwana
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
> In <slrnaos4q9...@zebkrahn.brong.net>, on 09/22/2002
> at 07:00 PM, Bron Gondwana <br...@brong.net> said:
>
> >So where the fuck were your backups?
>
> Why are you giving him UI?
>
> >I'm surprised nobody else has roasted you for not taking a backup
>
> It would have been UI.
Oops, I'll go hide in the corner now.
Bron.
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
at 10:57 PM, der...@bitflood.net (Derick Siddoway) said:
>In the same sense that "don't forget to breathe" is UI.
You'd be amazed at how many people "forget to breathe".
Unfortunately, they continue functioning (FSVO).