[Xnews] Any port to linux for this newsreader?
Ohmster
best there is would be Pan. Pan does not do binary uploads worth a damn. Has
Xnews ever been ported or will it (drooling at the prospect) ever be compiled
for linux?
--
~Ohmster
Blinky the Shark
1. Not, it hasn't been.
2. And author has stated that it will not ever go open source, has
expressed no interest in a port, and has said that development is
essentially finished anyway.
--
Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
<considering a new sig>
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Ohmster wrote:
>
>> Xnews is really like the best newsreader of all time. In linux, about
>> the best there is would be Pan. Pan does not do binary uploads worth a
>> damn. Has Xnews ever been ported or will it (drooling at the prospect)
>> ever be compiled for linux?
>
> 1. Not, it hasn't been.
>
> 2. And author has stated that it will not ever go open source, has
> expressed no interest in a port, and has said that development is
> essentially finished anyway.
>
We can but hope that Luu Tran will one day upgrade himself to Linux, and
decide to create the ideal news client for the ideal platform :))
I think slrn is probably the most powerful and configurable news client for
*nix - but the learning curve is more like a cliff-face and difficult to
persevere with when usable GUI news clients are so much easier to get going
with.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^ Interested in Citroens?
-- Whiskers <http://www.aacit.net>
-- ~~~~~~~~~~ <news:alt.autos.citroen>
Pardoz
> I think slrn is probably the most powerful and configurable news client for
> *nix - but the learning curve is more like a cliff-face and difficult to
> persevere with
There speaks somebody who's never dealt with gnus (gnus would be the
world's best newsreader except for one fatal flaw - no ready support for an
external editor). Slrn's actually quite easy to set up.
> when usable GUI news clients are so much easier to get going
> with.
Down to what you're used to, I guess. For me "usable" and "GUI news
client" are a contradiction in terms, at least for reading and posting news
(GUI clients are nice for hoovering binaries, mind).
--
Kill the Shrub to reply.
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:37:06 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think slrn is probably the most powerful and configurable news client
>> for *nix - but the learning curve is more like a cliff-face and difficult
>> to persevere with
>
> There speaks somebody who's never dealt with gnus (gnus would be the
> world's best newsreader except for one fatal flaw - no ready support for
> an external editor). Slrn's actually quite easy to set up.
>
I haven't even got to grips with Emacs (yet). I think its fans would claim
that Emacs is the best editor out there, so why look for another? ;)) As
Emacs has a spelling checker, apparently, there wouldn't be any great
pressure to use another editor anyway, would there? I won't be trying out
Gnus until I feel comfortable with Emacs.
I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I currently
have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do; getting slrn
working to my liking is a long term 'secondary' project. I haven't
abandoned it, I just don't have the energy to both keep up with my
newsgroups and struggle with an application that still feels very alien to
me.
I'm an old DOSer, and for years my only editor/word processor was 'PCWrite',
so I'm not afraid of the command line, I'm just very ignorant of the *nix
commands and utilities.
>> when usable GUI news clients are so much easier to get going
>> with.
>
> Down to what you're used to, I guess. For me "usable" and "GUI news
> client" are a contradiction in terms, at least for reading and posting
> news (GUI clients are nice for hoovering binaries, mind).
>
I'm not interested in binaries. I agree that Knode, at least, is very slow,
and it is getting annoying sometimes - but it is easy to use without
needing much familiarity with the OS. I'm currently giving Pan another
'go', to see if I can get into it now - the first time around I couldn't
get anywhere with it, but at least I can get to read with it now, so I may
'go live' with it soon. I'm also feeling the limitations of leafnode, so
I've got 'noffle' to play with as a possible alternative. I shall also try
out Pan's 'off line' mode, of course. I am trying to make Linux my own; I
have no wish to go back to Windows now, but I still miss Xnews and Hamster;
those are great programs.
Blinky the Shark
> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I
> currently
> have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do;
I use slrn; my headers whill show that I'm in Knode right now, because
you made me think of it, later in your post, and every now and then I
switch (I have slrn, pan, knode and sylpheed-claws set up) just to
familiarity and cheap thrills. :)
That said: what did you consider about slrn to require a lot of
familiarity with the OS? Yes, it's highly tweakable, but I'm no
Linux guru.
> I'm not interested in binaries. I agree that Knode, at least, is
Ditto. Anything I say about news clients reflects this -- I'm talkin'
about *reading* and posting text.
> very slow, and it is getting annoying sometimes - but it is easy to
> use without
> needing much familiarity with the OS. I'm currently giving Pan
That was re knode, so I'll ask: I'm using the internal editor, and in
Settings/Posting/Composer I have checked "rewrap quoted text
automatically". Yet it does what you see in the two paragraphs of
yours that I've quoted -- look at the short lines. No better if I
UNcheck that box. What to do?
> another 'go', to see if I can get into it now - the first time
> around I couldn't get anywhere with it, but at least I can get to
> read with it now, so I may
> 'go live' with it soon. I'm also feeling the limitations of
> leafnode, so
> I've got 'noffle' to play with as a possible alternative. I shall
Don't overlook slrnpull, if you *do* end up back with slrn.
> also try
> out Pan's 'off line' mode, of course. I am trying to make Linux my
> own; I have no wish to go back to Windows now, but I still miss
> Xnews and Hamster; those are great programs.
I never used that rodent, but I will, of course, agree with your call
on Xnews.
--
Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
[still no new sig]
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
>> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I
>> currently have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do;
>
> I use slrn; my headers whill show that I'm in Knode right now, because
> you made me think of it, later in your post, and every now and then I
> switch (I have slrn, pan, knode and sylpheed-claws set up) just to
> familiarity and cheap thrills. :)
>
We should all have a hobby :))
> That said: what did you consider about slrn to require a lot of
> familiarity with the OS? Yes, it's highly tweakable, but I'm no
> Linux guru.
>
I've got a slrn.rc file based on the sample that was installed along with
the rest of slrn, and I've been going through it step by step with the slrn
'manual.txt' printed out (on paper) and slowly working out what all the
settings should be - but I keep coming up against things I don't understand
at all, so I have to go off and find out what they mean and how to do
whatever it is needs doing.
For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable for this".
Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is, and I'm getting
closer to working out how to "set" one using the shell I use
(konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it in every time I
start the OS. Or could I include it in the command that starts slrn?
Then there's "set server_object This can either be set to "nntp" (read
online) or "spool" (use local spool)". Hmmm. I've got 'leafnode' running;
would that make a 'spool' slrn can use? If so, what's it called and where
is it? I'm getting closer to that one, I think.
Then there's "Which external programs do you want to use?" Spoilt for
choice :)) Not vi, that's pretty certain. I think kedit would be good -
it's quick to load and has a spelling checker, and it looks friendly, at
any rate. Then I'll want to set up a way to send SMTP (and ideally get
copies of the e-mails I send, into Kmail too), and a default browser, and
they need to be fed commands that they understand.
And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the long run,
even if I never use slrn.
I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet - and when I
installed noffle, I had to remove slrn and slrn-pull (and inews, which
noffle can apparently emulate - I don't actually know what inews does,
yet).
Sorry, you did ask <G>. This isn't a request for help, just an explanation.
>> I'm not interested in binaries. I agree that Knode, at least, is
>
> Ditto. Anything I say about news clients reflects this -- I'm talkin'
> about *reading* and posting text.
>
>> very slow, and it is getting annoying sometimes - but it is easy to
>> use without needing much familiarity with the OS. I'm currently giving
>> Pan
>
> That was re knode, so I'll ask: I'm using the internal editor, and in
> Settings/Posting/Composer I have checked "rewrap quoted text
> automatically". Yet it does what you see in the two paragraphs of
> yours that I've quoted -- look at the short lines. No better if I
> UNcheck that box. What to do?
>
When I can be bothered, I manually adjust the bad wraps, as above. It's
often just a case of putting the input cursor on the end of the short line
and pressing the 'delete' key a few times; sometimes a line ends up with
the wrong quoting level, so I type >s in to match. It is one of the
annoyances with Knode - but there are worse wrappers out there.
>> another 'go', to see if I can get into it now - the first time
>> around I couldn't get anywhere with it, but at least I can get to
>> read with it now, so I may 'go live' with it soon. I'm also feeling the
>> limitations of leafnode, so I've got 'noffle' to play with as a possible
>> alternative. I shall
>
> Don't overlook slrnpull, if you *do* end up back with slrn.
>
Certainly not! I've read that the combination integrates very well - as it
should. I haven't even looked at it yet.
>> also try out Pan's 'off line' mode, of course. I am trying to make Linux
>> my own; I have no wish to go back to Windows now, but I still miss
>> Xnews and Hamster; those are great programs.
>
> I never used that rodent, but I will, of course, agree with your call
> on Xnews.
>
Hamster is superior to leafnode, in my opinion. It isn't 'transparent'
though, and you need to set it up as both a 'client' to the upstream feeds
and a 'server' for the user(s), and a user can't get any groups that aren't
already being pulled or created by Hamster - and Hamster won't
automatically stop pulling groups that are no longer being read. You could
probably write scripts to make it more transparent.
Max Quordlepleen
> Hamster is superior to leafnode, in my opinion. It isn't 'transparent'
> though, and you need to set it up as both a 'client' to the upstream feeds
> and a 'server' for the user(s), and a user can't get any groups that
> aren't already being pulled or created by Hamster - and Hamster won't
> automatically stop pulling groups that are no longer being read. You
> could probably write scripts to make it more transparent.
Hamster is probably the one app that I would most like to see run well under
WINE, since every post I have read from people who use both has agreed with
your assessment, that Leafnode is not as good. If I could setup Hamster in
Mandrake, then I wouldn't have to bother with Leafnode. BTW, have you tried
Gnus/Xemacs?
--
RLU 297164
noho ora mai, ka kite ano
http://maxqnz.com/References.html
Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy. G.B.Shaw
DC
> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable for this".
> Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is, and I'm getting
> closer to working out how to "set" one using the shell I use
> (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it in every time I
> start the OS. Or could I include it in the command that starts slrn?
Here is my ~/.bashrc file (read when I log into KDE):
# .bashrc
# User specific aliases and functions
# Source global definitions
if [ -f /etc/bashrc ]; then
. /etc/bashrc
fi
# Set NNTPSERVER environment variable
NNTPSERVER='news.individual.net'
export NNTPSERVER
This works for me because I only use slrn with this one server. If I
had several, then I suppose that writing a script for each server would
be the way to go.
> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
> operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the long run,
> even if I never use slrn.
True enough. }:O)
--
DC
When Microsoft starts making something that doesn't suck, it'll probably
be a vacuum cleaner. -- PhotoMan (24hoursupport.helpdesk)
Pardoz
> In news.software.readers on Sunday 30 Nov 2003 5:31 am, Pardoz
><par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:37:06 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think slrn is probably the most powerful and configurable news client
>>> for *nix - but the learning curve is more like a cliff-face and difficult
>>> to persevere with
>>
>> There speaks somebody who's never dealt with gnus (gnus would be the
>> world's best newsreader except for one fatal flaw - no ready support for
>> an external editor). Slrn's actually quite easy to set up.
>>
> I haven't even got to grips with Emacs (yet).
That's more or less what I meant, yeah.
> I think its fans would claim
> that Emacs is the best editor out there, so why look for another? ;)) As
> Emacs has a spelling checker, apparently, there wouldn't be any great
> pressure to use another editor anyway, would there?
I prefer an editor that doesn't require a postgraduate degree to do
something complicated, like edit a news post, and loads up in something
quicker than geological time. Milage varies, of course.
> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I currently
> have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do; getting slrn
> working to my liking is a long term 'secondary' project.
Fair enough. Basic reading and posting is, IMO, no more difficult to
set up than pretty much any other news client I've ever used - pick an
editor, pick a server, select a handful of groups, and away you go. Getting
into the fiddly details can be time-consuming, of course. What are you
particularly having troubles with?
> I'm an old DOSer, and for years my only editor/word processor was 'PCWrite',
> so I'm not afraid of the command line, I'm just very ignorant of the *nix
> commands and utilities.
Fair enough. I cheated, having gotten my start on *nix utilities
ported to DOS (and later OS/2, and even Windows) before actually running my
own *nix desktop.
> get anywhere with it, but at least I can get to read with it now, so I may
> 'go live' with it soon. I'm also feeling the limitations of leafnode, so
> I've got 'noffle' to play with as a possible alternative.
Another possible alternative is slrnpull - it's easiest to set up to
work directly with slrn, of course, but I know some people have had success
in setting it up to work as an offline server for other clients.
> I shall also try
> out Pan's 'off line' mode, of course. I am trying to make Linux my own; I
> have no wish to go back to Windows now, but I still miss Xnews and Hamster;
> those are great programs.
Showing how much mileage can vary, I never was able to decipher
Hamster's configuration well enough to get a working installation; just went
back to the (IMO much simpler to configure and use) slrnpull/slrn
combination.
Otis Wengatz
news:Xns9442B1DB...@129.250.170.95:
There is not a port, and is not likely to be one.
You might be able to get Xnews going under GNU-Linux using WINE:-
<http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Windows-Newsreaders-under-Linux-HOWTO/xnews.html>
BUT You cannot post binaries. See the "problems" section of the document
for details. So this method is not suitable for you I think?
Blinky the Shark
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:32:13 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable for this".
>> Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is, and I'm getting
>> closer to working out how to "set" one using the shell I use
>> (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it in every time I
>> start the OS. Or could I include it in the command that starts slrn?
> Here is my ~/.bashrc file (read when I log into KDE):
> # .bashrc
> # User specific aliases and functions
> # Source global definitions
> if [ -f /etc/bashrc ]; then
> . /etc/bashrc
> fi
> # Set NNTPSERVER environment variable
> NNTPSERVER='news.individual.net'
> export NNTPSERVER
Zackly mine (well, except for servername <g>)...
> This works for me because I only use slrn with this one server. If I
> had several, then I suppose that writing a script for each server would
> be the way to go.
...and zackly what I do.
Since I have it on the clipboard anyway, here's mine for Newsguy and
Blinky:
#!/bin/bash
/home/blinky/bin/.cleanscore -e 1 -f /home/blinky/News/score_bts
slrn -n -h enews.newsguy.com -i .slrnrc_ng_bts
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Sunday 30 Nov 2003 8:31 pm, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>> Whiskers wrote:
>>> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
>>> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I
>>> currently have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do;
>> I use slrn; my headers whill show that I'm in Knode right now, because
>> you made me think of it, later in your post, and every now and then I
>> switch (I have slrn, pan, knode and sylpheed-claws set up) just to
>> familiarity and cheap thrills. :)
> We should all have a hobby :))
>> That said: what did you consider about slrn to require a lot of
>> familiarity with the OS? Yes, it's highly tweakable, but I'm no
>> Linux guru.
> I've got a slrn.rc file based on the sample that was installed along with
> the rest of slrn, and I've been going through it step by step with the slrn
Right. I use the sample, tweaked for me. Might as well keep the
comments in there, I figger.
> 'manual.txt' printed out (on paper) and slowly working out what all the
> settings should be - but I keep coming up against things I don't understand
> at all, so I have to go off and find out what they mean and how to do
> whatever it is needs doing.
> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable for this".
> Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is, and I'm getting
Pretty much the same as an environment variable in DOS, ack Shirley.
> closer to working out how to "set" one using the shell I use
> (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it in every time I
> start the OS. Or could I include it in the command that starts slrn?
I run slrn with this script:
#!/bin/bash
/home/blinky/bin/.cleanscore -e 1 -f /home/blinky/News/score_bts
slrn -n -h enews.newsguy.com -i .slrnrc_ng_bts
Note the server is specified on the second line. The -h switch says use
the following host. (The -n says don't check for new groups; the -i says
use the following config file.)
> Then there's "set server_object This can either be set to "nntp" (read
> online) or "spool" (use local spool)". Hmmm. I've got 'leafnode' running;
> would that make a 'spool' slrn can use? If so, what's it called and where
> is it? I'm getting closer to that one, I think.
I don't know about that, but I'd *think* so. I'm totally guessing, here,
but I'd think there to be an expected place for a news spool (like
/var/spool/mail/[user] for email), and I'd think that any news client
that's...er...local spool aware could be pointed to that (or would look
there on its own). This is just a SWAG, mind you.
Else: use slrnpull.
> Then there's "Which external programs do you want to use?" Spoilt for
> choice :)) Not vi, that's pretty certain. I think kedit would be good -
> it's quick to load and has a spelling checker, and it looks friendly, at
> any rate. Then I'll want to set up a way to send SMTP (and ideally get
> copies of the e-mails I send, into Kmail too), and a default browser, and
> they need to be fed commands that they understand.
Righto. Can't help with kedit syntax; using gvim, here. And I don't
*ever* send email from my news clients -- didn't back in Win, and don't
here in Linux; so no help there, either. As for browser, that's easy
<g>:
set Xbrowser "opera '%s' &"
> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
> operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the long run,
> even if I never use slrn.
Once you've figured out that stuff, you'll use slrn. :)
> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet - and when I
> installed noffle, I had to remove slrn and slrn-pull (and inews, which
> noffle can apparently emulate - I don't actually know what inews does,
> yet).
> Sorry, you did ask <G>. This isn't a request for help, just an explanation.
I got the explanation. You got a bit of help for later. Fair 'nuff.
:)
<snippage>
>> That was re knode, so I'll ask: I'm using the internal editor, and in
>> Settings/Posting/Composer I have checked "rewrap quoted text
>> automatically". Yet it does what you see in the two paragraphs of
>> yours that I've quoted -- look at the short lines. No better if I
>> UNcheck that box. What to do?
> When I can be bothered, I manually adjust the bad wraps, as above. It's
Software is what's supposed to eliminate bother, not create it. :)
> often just a case of putting the input cursor on the end of the short line
> and pressing the 'delete' key a few times; sometimes a line ends up with
> the wrong quoting level, so I type >s in to match. It is one of the
Oh, sure -- that's first week, Editing 101. :)
Blinky the Shark
> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:30:34 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>> In news.software.readers on Sunday 30 Nov 2003 5:31 am, Pardoz
>><par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I haven't even got to grips with Emacs (yet).
> That's more or less what I meant, yeah.
I might toss emacs and gnus at the HD and see if it sticks. I had them
happening on an earlier installation, but gnus crashed, one day, and
never ran again. As I mentioned to whiskers, I have four news clients
installed and configured. Why not five? :)
>> I think its fans would claim
>> that Emacs is the best editor out there, so why look for another? ;)) As
>> Emacs has a spelling checker, apparently, there wouldn't be any great
>> pressure to use another editor anyway, would there?
> I prefer an editor that doesn't require a postgraduate degree to do
> something complicated, like edit a news post, and loads up in something
> quicker than geological time. Milage varies, of course.
So you're using something from the vi family?
>> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
>> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I currently
>> have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do; getting slrn
>> working to my liking is a long term 'secondary' project.
> Fair enough. Basic reading and posting is, IMO, no more difficult to
> set up than pretty much any other news client I've ever used - pick an
> editor, pick a server, select a handful of groups, and away you go. Getting
> into the fiddly details can be time-consuming, of course. What are you
> particularly having troubles with?
There are a few extra things to set, which reflects its configurability. But
I suspect the most offputting thing for a lot of people, Win users in
particular, is that there's no GUI. Mostly, as you say, you're setting
the same stuff -- but you're doing it in text files.
--
Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
[still no new sig]
Pardoz
> Pardoz wrote:
> I might toss emacs and gnus at the HD and see if it sticks. I had them
> happening on an earlier installation, but gnus crashed, one day, and
> never ran again. As I mentioned to whiskers, I have four news clients
> installed and configured. Why not five? :)
Indeed :-). I keep meaning to dust off my emacs setup and play with
gnus again now that I've upgraded my machine.
> So you're using something from the vi family?
Actually at the mo' I'm using a little editor called 'fte'. Small,
fast, does just enough for what I need it for, no more, no less. Still
looking for a decent GUI editor for day-to-day use (fte is CLI). You can grab
source for the latest version or source and a variety of binaries for an
earlier one at fte.sourceforge.net.
>> Fair enough. Basic reading and posting is, IMO, no more difficult to
>> set up than pretty much any other news client I've ever used - pick an
>> editor, pick a server, select a handful of groups, and away you go. Getting
>> into the fiddly details can be time-consuming, of course. What are you
>> particularly having troubles with?
>
> There are a few extra things to set, which reflects its configurability.
Sure, but most of those extra settings aren't necessary to get it up
and running, just to get it running to your exact tastes.
> But
> I suspect the most offputting thing for a lot of people, Win users in
> particular, is that there's no GUI. Mostly, as you say, you're setting
> the same stuff -- but you're doing it in text files.
'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody was
working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which strikes me as a nice
way to gentle people in to using slrn.
Last time I looked at XNews, half the finer points of configuration
were done by direct hacking of the xnews.ini file, not through the GUI, so
this shouldn't be completely alien to you, right?
SINNER
There is one called slrnconf but last I checked it had not been updated.
I started playing around with it (Its just a big perl script) but I have
almost no codeing knowledge so I was stymied in a few spots.
if you feel like playing:
http://software.freshmeat.net/projects/slrnconf/
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
Mother is far too clever to understand anything she does not like.
-- Arnold Bennett
Whiskers
<ma...@nonags.com> wrote:
snip
> Hamster is probably the one app that I would most like to see run well
> under WINE, since every post I have read from people who use both has
> agreed with your assessment, that Leafnode is not as good. If I could
> setup Hamster in Mandrake, then I wouldn't have to bother with Leafnode.
Same here. Hamster is the most Unix-like application I've used with
Windows, and there are occasional rumours about a possible 'port' to Linux.
I have heard of Hamster being run in Linux+VMWare and working as a news+mail
server for Linux users - but that is a lot to do just for one application.
> BTW, have you tried Gnus/Xemacs?
Not yet. I have dabbled briefly with Emacs, and felt totaly confused. I
haven't seen Xemacs, but it should be a little less daunting. Gnus is on
my list of things to have a go at.
Whiskers
<dcm...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:32:13 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable for
>> this". Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is, and I'm
>> getting closer to working out how to "set" one using the shell I use
>> (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it in every time I
>> start the OS. Or could I include it in the command that starts slrn?
>
> Here is my ~/.bashrc file (read when I log into KDE):
>
> # .bashrc
>
> # User specific aliases and functions
>
> # Source global definitions
> if [ -f /etc/bashrc ]; then
> . /etc/bashrc
> fi
>
> # Set NNTPSERVER environment variable
> NNTPSERVER='news.individual.net'
> export NNTPSERVER
>
>
> This works for me because I only use slrn with this one server. If I
> had several, then I suppose that writing a script for each server would
> be the way to go.
>
Thanks for that :)) I was wondering how slrn would cope with multiple
servers, which is why a started playing with leafnode and am now thinking
of noffle.
>> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
>> operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the long
>> run, even if I never use slrn.
>
> True enough. }:O)
>
It does make my brain hurt sometimes ==~:-\
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
snip
> Showing how much mileage can vary, I never was able to decipher
> Hamster's configuration well enough to get a working installation; just
> went back to the (IMO much simpler to configure and use) slrnpull/slrn
> combination.
A lot depends on what you are already familiar with. Hamster 2 is a lot
more straight-forward than Hamster 1.
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> In news.software.readers on Sunday 30 Nov 2003 8:31 pm, Blinky the Shark
>><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Whiskers wrote:
>
snip
>> I've got a slrn.rc file based on the sample that was installed along with
>> the rest of slrn, and I've been going through it step by step with the
>> slrn
>
> Right. I use the sample, tweaked for me. Might as well keep the
> comments in there, I figger.
>
They don't seem to slow things down at all, and it's usuful to have a few
clues around when you come back to it later.
snip
> I run slrn with this script:
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> /home/blinky/bin/.cleanscore -e 1 -f /home/blinky/News/score_bts
> slrn -n -h enews.newsguy.com -i .slrnrc_ng_bts
>
> Note the server is specified on the second line. The -h switch says use
> the following host. (The -n says don't check for new groups; the -i says
> use the following config file.)
>
I think I'd prefer to have the server specified in the start-up script like
that; more obvious where it is, and easier to have a bunch of scripts for
different servers.
>> Then there's "set server_object This can either be set to "nntp" (read
>> online) or "spool" (use local spool)". Hmmm. I've got 'leafnode'
>> running; would that make a 'spool' slrn can use? If so, what's it called
>> and where is it? I'm getting closer to that one, I think.
>
> I don't know about that, but I'd *think* so. I'm totally guessing, here,
> but I'd think there to be an expected place for a news spool (like
> /var/spool/mail/[user] for email), and I'd think that any news client
> that's...er...local spool aware could be pointed to that (or would look
> there on its own). This is just a SWAG, mind you.
>
Leafnode does put its stuff in logical places; and it's not too hard to put
'links' where necessary if different applications have different ideas
about what's 'correct'.
> Else: use slrnpull.
>
Eventualy ;))
>> Then there's "Which external programs do you want to use?" Spoilt for
>> choice :)) Not vi, that's pretty certain. I think kedit would be good -
>> it's quick to load and has a spelling checker, and it looks friendly, at
>> any rate. Then I'll want to set up a way to send SMTP (and ideally get
>> copies of the e-mails I send, into Kmail too), and a default browser, and
>> they need to be fed commands that they understand.
>
> Righto. Can't help with kedit syntax; using gvim, here. And I don't
> *ever* send email from my news clients -- didn't back in Win, and don't
> here in Linux; so no help there, either. As for browser, that's easy
> <g>:
>
> set Xbrowser "opera '%s' &"
>
Ah; OK :)) (I've been an Opera fan since version 5.0).
>> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
>> operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the long
>> run, even if I never use slrn.
>
> Once you've figured out that stuff, you'll use slrn. :)
>
quite possibly :))
snip
>
>> Sorry, you did ask <G>. This isn't a request for help, just an
>> explanation.
>
> I got the explanation. You got a bit of help for later. Fair 'nuff.
> :)
>
Agreed :))
> <snippage>
>
>>> That was re knode, so I'll ask: I'm using the internal editor, and in
>>> Settings/Posting/Composer I have checked "rewrap quoted text
>>> automatically". Yet it does what you see in the two paragraphs of
>>> yours that I've quoted -- look at the short lines. No better if I
>>> UNcheck that box. What to do?
>
>> When I can be bothered, I manually adjust the bad wraps, as above. It's
>
> Software is what's supposed to eliminate bother, not create it. :)
>
Yes, but there are always improvements to look forward to. Rewrapping
quoted text seems to be something that looks easier than it is.
>> often just a case of putting the input cursor on the end of the short
>> line and pressing the 'delete' key a few times; sometimes a line ends up
>> with
>> the wrong quoting level, so I type >s in to match. It is one of the
>
> Oh, sure -- that's first week, Editing 101. :)
>
Heh ;))
Louis
> Pardoz wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 18:30:34 +0000, Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
>>> In news.software.readers on Sunday 30 Nov 2003 5:31 am, Pardoz
>>><par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> I haven't even got to grips with Emacs (yet).
>
>> That's more or less what I meant, yeah.
>
> I might toss emacs and gnus at the HD and see if it sticks. I had them
> happening on an earlier installation, but gnus crashed, one day, and
> never ran again. As I mentioned to whiskers, I have four news clients
> installed and configured. Why not five? :)
These instructions are for GNU Emacs (XEmacs) / Gnus (Linux) and
should have you browsing newsgroups in a few minutes.
Edit and stick the following into '/home/$USER/.gnus' (~/.gnus) to
have Gnus work without you having to read much of the manual to get
things going. The following will download mail from your SMTP server
and will have you browsing / posting into newsgroups.
Up and Running with GNU Emacs v21.3.50.2 / Gnus v5.10.3 in 5 minutes:
1.) add the following lisp to ~/.gnus:
;; start of ~/.gnus
;; Author: Louis (usen...@ossh.com)
;; Keywords: dotgnus, .gnus, ~/.gnus
;; wget http://www.ossh.com/emacs/gnus-sample.txt
;; Comments start with ';;' - remove ';;' from the start of lines to
;; activate (';;' in lisp is like '#' in PERL or BASH
;; scripts). Anything (OPTIONAL) can be disabled / enabled by adding /
;; removing ';;' from the start of each line.
;; EDIT Your Main NNTP Server
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.west.earthlink.net"))
;; EDIT Your Secondary NNTP Server
(add-to-list 'gnus-secondary-select-methods '(nntp "news.individual.net"))
;; EDIT Email Addy you want sent with NNTP postings
(setq message-default-news-headers
"From: Louis <usen...@ossh.com>\n")
;; EDIT Email Addy you want to send with SMTP (mail)
(setq user-mail-address "iamsomebo...@ossh.com")
;; EDIT (OPTIONAL) Custom hostname other than ISP's
(setq user-host-name "ossh.com")
;; EDIT (OPTIONAL) Custom Domain
(setq user-sender "ossh.com")
;; EDIT Your Real Name with SMTP
(setq user-full-name "firstName lastName")
;; DO NOT EDIT Leave this alone do not edit unless you RTFM
(setq gnus-secondary-select-methods
'((nnml "private")))
;; 1.) OPTIONAL uncomment one of the following and edit depending on
;; your usage of mailspool / maildir format
;; For maildir style
;; (setq mail-sources
;; '((maildir
;; :path (expand-file-name "~/.maildir/"))))
;; For Sendmail Style mbox
;; (setq mail-sources
;; '((file :path "/var/mail/username")))
:: or
;; 2.) OPTIONAL Have gnus download mail directly from your ISP's SMTP
;; server by editing the following with your own information:
;; (eval-after-load "mail-source"
;; '(add-to-list 'mail-sources '(pop :server "mail.earthlink.net"
;; :user "user...@earthlink.net"
;; :password "PASSWORD")))
;; End of ~/.gnus
2.) open Emacs
3.) M-x gnus ENTER (or ALT+X gnus - remember 'ALT' and 'x' must be
depressed @ the same time)
4.) press Shift-A Shift-A ENTER (or A A RETURN)
* give this time to download the active newsgroup file from your
NNTP server
5.) Find newsgroup you want to subscribe to and press 'U' once point
is on the newsgroup you want.
5a.) One can subscribe to an already known group instead of scrolling
by doing the following:
* U news.software.readers
* U gnu.emacs.gnus
6.) press 'g' while in the groups buffer when you want to have gnus
check subscribed newsgroups for new postings.
6a.) press 'F' on someones post to Follow UP.
6b.) press C-c C-c (CTRL-c CTRL-c) to send message.
6c.) C-x k ENTER to kill post / buffer (CTRL-x k RETURN)
7.) You can create a file /home/$USER/.authinfo (~/.authinfo) with the
following information (so you dont have to type your NNTP username /
password each time you fire up gnus):
machine news.west.earthlink.net login USERNAME password PASSWORD
8.) chmod 600 ~/.gnus && chmod 600 ~/.authinfo
GNU Emacs / Gnus takes a little while to get used to, but you wont
turn back once you get past the keybindings.
>>> I think its fans would claim
>>> that Emacs is the best editor out there, so why look for another? ;)) As
>>> Emacs has a spelling checker, apparently, there wouldn't be any great
>>> pressure to use another editor anyway, would there?
>
>> I prefer an editor that doesn't require a postgraduate degree to do
>> something complicated, like edit a news post, and loads up in something
>> quicker than geological time. Milage varies, of course.
>
> So you're using something from the vi family?
GNU Emacs has a 'vi' emulator which means you can use 'vi' commands
instead of Emacs keybindings. It's called 'viper-mode' and you fire
it up like this:
1.) emacs -f viper-mode
or
1.) open up Emacs
2.) M-x viper-mode ENTER (or ALT x viper-mode RETURN)
>>> I have given slrn a good effort, I think, but setting it up to my
>>> satisfaction requires a lot more familiarity with the OS than I currently
>>> have. For me, reading and posting is the thing I want to do; getting slrn
>>> working to my liking is a long term 'secondary' project.
I would use slrn if I wasnt so addicted to GNU Emacs / Gnus, but that
is just me.
I realized I was addicted to GNU Emacs when I started using Emacs
keybindings on Microsoft Word 2002. :'(
--
LCC
Blinky the Shark
> On 1 Dec 2003 12:14:43 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>> Pardoz wrote:
>> So you're using something from the vi family?
> Actually at the mo' I'm using a little editor called 'fte'. Small,
> fast, does just enough for what I need it for, no more, no less. Still
Fast Text Editor. :)
> looking for a decent GUI editor for day-to-day use (fte is CLI). You can grab
> source for the latest version or source and a variety of binaries for an
> earlier one at fte.sourceforge.net.
Oh, but I'll be sticking with gvim -- the semi graphical version of vim. I'm
by now very accustomed to macros and aliases (abbrs), and such.
>>> Fair enough. Basic reading and posting is, IMO, no more difficult to
>>> set up than pretty much any other news client I've ever used - pick an
>>> editor, pick a server, select a handful of groups, and away you go. Getting
>>> into the fiddly details can be time-consuming, of course. What are you
>>> particularly having troubles with?
>> There are a few extra things to set, which reflects its configurability.
> Sure, but most of those extra settings aren't necessary to get it up
> and running, just to get it running to your exact tastes.
>> But
>> I suspect the most offputting thing for a lot of people, Win users in
>> particular, is that there's no GUI. Mostly, as you say, you're setting
>> the same stuff -- but you're doing it in text files.
> 'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody was
> working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which strikes me as a nice
> way to gentle people in to using slrn.
But a less competent level, due to masking of stuff it's good to know.
> Last time I looked at XNews, half the finer points of configuration
> were done by direct hacking of the xnews.ini file, not through the GUI, so
> this shouldn't be completely alien to you, right?
And groups.ini, and I think there's another one. I should KNOW, but I
haven't used it for over a year, and some stuff does drift away...
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Monday 01 Dec 2003 1:05 am, Max
> Quordlepleen
><ma...@nonags.com> wrote:
>> BTW, have you tried Gnus/Xemacs?
> Not yet. I have dabbled briefly with Emacs, and felt totaly confused.
> I haven't seen Xemacs, but it should be a little less daunting. Gnus
> is on my list of things to have a go at.
Speaking of daunt removal <g>, when you next look at a vi-family app,
look at gvim. It adds a layer of mouseable (or [Alt]able) menuing, so
as you're transitioning to it you have some hand-holding. I still use
it, although because of it I can use vim itself, equally well (I rarely
use the "g" aspects of it, any more.)
Blinky the Shark
>> # .bashrc
Very simple with a one-line shell script that runs slrn with host
[whatever]. I think I posted one of mine on the thread, yesterday.
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
>> But
>> I suspect the most offputting thing for a lot of people, Win users in
>> particular, is that there's no GUI. Mostly, as you say, you're setting
>> the same stuff -- but you're doing it in text files.
>
> 'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody was
> working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which strikes me as a nice
> way to gentle people in to using slrn.
>
It would make a big difference.
> Last time I looked at XNews, half the finer points of configuration
> were done by direct hacking of the xnews.ini file, not through the GUI, so
> this shouldn't be completely alien to you, right?
There isn't much you can do with Xnews that isn't in the GUI 'setup' now,
but the .ini files do offer a few extra refinements. Its GUI interface for
reading and posting is also first rate, with virtually everything you need
just a click away.
»Q«
<news:8gks91-...@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>:
> Hamster is the most Unix-like application I've used
> with Windows, and there are occasional rumours about a possible
> 'port' to Linux.
There was a recent thread in hamster.en.config about this. It seems
that Hamster uses too many Win32 APIs to make a port feasible. Hamster
Playground is a bit less Win API-dependent (e.g. it does not use
winsock) but still would require a major rewrite to compile using
Kylix.
--
»Q« If I have not seen as far as others, it is because
giants were standing on my shoulders.
-- Hal Abelson
Blinky the Shark
> Up and Running with GNU Emacs v21.3.50.2 / Gnus v5.10.3 in 5 minutes:
<snip>
I've saved this for that "sometime" when I get around to thinking Emacs.
Thanks, Louis. It's a nice introduction/tool.
> GNU Emacs / Gnus takes a little while to get used to, but you wont
> turn back once you get past the keybindings.
LIS, I've used it in the past.
>>>> I think its fans would claim
>>>> that Emacs is the best editor out there, so why look for another? ;)) As
>>>> Emacs has a spelling checker, apparently, there wouldn't be any great
>>>> pressure to use another editor anyway, would there?
>>> I prefer an editor that doesn't require a postgraduate degree to do
>>> something complicated, like edit a news post, and loads up in something
>>> quicker than geological time. Milage varies, of course.
>> So you're using something from the vi family?
> GNU Emacs has a 'vi' emulator which means you can use 'vi' commands
> instead of Emacs keybindings. It's called 'viper-mode' and you fire
> it up like this:
Interesting -- didn't know that. But no, I'll/I'd stick with the Emacs
keybindings. My mama didn't raise no wusspuss sharks. :)
Max Quordlepleen
<no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
news:slrnbsnkhs....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>
> I've saved this for that "sometime" when I get around to thinking
> Emacs. Thanks, Louis. It's a nice introduction/tool.
Sheesh! Had I known that you were contemplating accepting the Good
GNUs, all you had to do was ask, my cartiligenous ccomrade. You loaned
me a slrnrc once upon a long ago, I would have happily loaned you my
.gnus, which I leave uploaded on my server for ease of backup anyway.
--
"If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it
caught and shot now."
Blinky the Shark
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 23:43:29 GMT, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
> news:slrnbsnkhs....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>> I've saved this for that "sometime" when I get around to thinking
>> Emacs. Thanks, Louis. It's a nice introduction/tool.
> Sheesh! Had I known that you were contemplating accepting the Good
> GNUs, all you had to do was ask, my cartiligenous ccomrade. You loaned
> me a slrnrc once upon a long ago, I would have happily loaned you my
> .gnus, which I leave uploaded on my server for ease of backup anyway.
I had it usefully installed and configured once, and one day, it up'n
stopped working. I've reinstalled Mandrake since then, and always figured
I'd reload it some time...but just for familiarity and play, not to
become my heavy lifter. So it's a very back-burner kind of thing, here.
Still, sure -- some day I'll piddle around with it.
Max Quordlepleen
<no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
news:slrnbsnr9g....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
> talled and configured once, and one day, it up'n
> stopped working. I've reinstalled Mandrake since then, and always
> figured I'd reload it some time...but just for familiarity and
> play,
Kinda like wot I done wiv slrn and slrnpull.
--
Good things of day begin to droop and drowse;
While night's black Agents to their preys do rouse.
Peter J Ross
> I've got a slrn.rc file based on the sample that was installed along
> with the rest of slrn, and I've been going through it step by step
> with the slrn 'manual.txt' printed out (on paper) and slowly
> working out what all the settings should be - but I keep coming up
> against things I don't understand at all, so I have to go off and
> find out what they mean and how to do whatever it is needs doing.
It's not unheard of for questions about such things to be answered
here. :-)
> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable
> for this". Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is,
> and I'm getting closer to working out how to "set" one using the
> shell I use (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it
> in every time I start the OS. Or could I include it in the command
> that starts slrn?
Put it in your .bashrc, as someone else suggested, and set it as
either "localhost" or "127.0.0.1" to retrieve articles from leafnode.
(I assume the same applies to noffle and other local servers, but I
haven't tried it.)
> Then there's "set server_object This can either be set to "nntp"
> (read online) or "spool" (use local spool)". Hmmm. I've got
> 'leafnode' running; would that make a 'spool' slrn can use? If so,
> what's it called and where is it? I'm getting closer to that one,
> I think.
No, you want "nntp" for leafnode. You'd use "spool" if you were using
slrnpull.
> Then there's "Which external programs do you want to use?" Spoilt
> for choice :)) Not vi, that's pretty certain.
Correct. Vim is much nicer. :-)
> I think kedit would be good - it's quick to load and has a spelling
> checker, and it looks friendly, at any rate.
That will probably do, until you begin to notice how nicely formatted
Vim-users' posts are.
> Then I'll want to set up a way to send SMTP
Do you have a mailserver (e.g. exim, sendmail etc) installed and
configured? If so it's easy.
> (and ideally get copies of the e-mails I send, into Kmail too),
Probably you just need to store sent mail in one of Kmails folders.
(I haven't tested this.)
> and a default browser, and they need to be fed commands that they
> understand.
>
> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole
> new operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in
> the long run, even if I never use slrn.
The practice with .rc files is bound to be useful.
> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet
That's probably because your NNTPSERVER variable isn't set.
<...>
> When I can be bothered, I manually adjust the bad wraps, as above.
> It's often just a case of putting the input cursor on the end of
> the short line and pressing the 'delete' key a few times; sometimes
> a line ends up with the wrong quoting level, so I type >s in to
> match. It is one of the annoyances with Knode - but there are
> worse wrappers out there.
My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
quoted text very neatly.
>>> another 'go', to see if I can get into it now - the first time
>>> around I couldn't get anywhere with it, but at least I can get to
>>> read with it now, so I may 'go live' with it soon. I'm also
>>> feeling the limitations of leafnode, so I've got 'noffle' to
>>> play with as a possible alternative. I shall
>>
>> Don't overlook slrnpull, if you *do* end up back with slrn.
>>
> Certainly not! I've read that the combination integrates very well
> - as it should. I haven't even looked at it yet.
>
>>> also try out Pan's 'off line' mode, of course. I am trying to
>>> make Linux my own; I have no wish to go back to Windows now,
>>> but I still miss Xnews and Hamster; those are great programs.
>>
>> I never used that rodent, but I will, of course, agree with your
>> call on Xnews.
>>
> Hamster is superior to leafnode, in my opinion.
It has more features, if that's what you want.
> It isn't 'transparent' though, and you need to set it up as both a
> 'client' to the upstream feeds and a 'server' for the user(s),
That shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
> and a user can't get any groups that aren't already being pulled or
> created by Hamster - and Hamster won't automatically stop pulling
> groups that are no longer being read.
That's because it's more like a "real" newsserver than leafnode is.
It's the administrator who makes such decisions, not the users.
> You could probably write scripts to make it more transparent.
Possibly. It seems that Hamster Playground can be configured to pull
and drop groups in response to the users' wishes, but I'm happy with
Hamster Classic + Korrnews myself.
--
PJR :-)
mhm34x8 Smeeter #30
news:alt.fan.pjr news:alt.alcatroll
Usenet Valhalla (Circle Five)
Alcatroll Labs Inc. (Executive Vice-President)
Baron Jacksonville in the Usenet House of Lords
(Remove NOSPAM to reply)
Blinky the Shark
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 01:38:28 GMT, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
> news:slrnbsnr9g....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>> talled and configured once, and one day, it up'n
>> stopped working. I've reinstalled Mandrake since then, and always
>> figured I'd reload it some time...but just for familiarity and
>> play,
> Kinda like wot I done wiv slrn and slrnpull.
I thought you tried slrn first, and went to GNUS when you couldn't get
it to work right...
Blinky the Shark
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:32:13 +0000, Whiskers wrote:
>> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet
> That's probably because your NNTPSERVER variable isn't set.
And/or don't you have to run slrn once with a particular switch you
don't need on subsequent starts, to create the scorefile, or something?
>> When I can be bothered, I manually adjust the bad wraps, as above.
>> It's often just a case of putting the input cursor on the end of
>> the short line and pressing the 'delete' key a few times; sometimes
>> a line ends up with the wrong quoting level, so I type >s in to
>> match. It is one of the annoyances with Knode - but there are
>> worse wrappers out there.
> My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
> quoted text very neatly.
That it does!
Pardoz
> Pardoz wrote:
>> Actually at the mo' I'm using a little editor called 'fte'. Small,
>> fast, does just enough for what I need it for, no more, no less. Still
>
> Fast Text Editor. :)
B'lieve it's "folding", actually.
> Oh, but I'll be sticking with gvim -- the semi graphical version of vim. I'm
> by now very accustomed to macros and aliases (abbrs), and such.
"Semi-graphical"? Pretty CLI? At any rate, I'll have to take a
squint, although I was rather underwhelmed by vi last time I looked at it.
Admittedly, that was about six or eight years ago.
>> 'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody was
>> working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which strikes me as a nice
>> way to gentle people in to using slrn.
>
> But a less competent level, due to masking of stuff it's good to know.
That's the inevitable tradeoff with almost any GUI system, though -
ease of use vs. power of use. Still, I don't think a little basic
hand-holding setting up things like username, server, etc. is necessarily a
bad thing here - work on the drug dealer principle (the first hit's free).
As the newbie gets more accustomed to working with a CLI, said newbie will
become more comfortable tweaking the config file to suit.
Pardoz
> A lot depends on what you are already familiar with. Hamster 2 is a lot
> more straight-forward than Hamster 1.
Couldn't be much less so, IMO :-).
Pardoz
> And/or don't you have to run slrn once with a particular switch you
> don't need on subsequent starts, to create the scorefile, or something?
IMS, slrn --create on the first run, in order to create a .jnewsrc
file (unless you've already got a .newsrc file you've already created with
something else lying around, in which case you can just cp .newsrc .jnewsrc
and you're good to go).
Max Quordlepleen
<no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
news:slrnbso852....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>> Kinda like wot I done wiv slrn and slrnpull.
>
> I thought you tried slrn first, and went to GNUS when you couldn't
> get it to work right...
>
Yeah, that was in Mandrake 9.0, but since then, in 9.1 and 9.2, I've
always installed slrn and slrnpull just to be ecumenical.
--
Please do not press this button again
Whiskers
<usen...@ossh.com> wrote:
snip Gnus set-up guide
> I would use slrn if I wasnt so addicted to GNU Emacs / Gnus, but that
> is just me.
>
> I realized I was addicted to GNU Emacs when I started using Emacs
> keybindings on Microsoft Word 2002. :'(
Ironic that the best (read as 'only') 'get you started' guide I've seen for
Gnus, should be in an Xnews thread ;))
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
snip
>>> 'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody was
>>> working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which strikes me as a
>>> nice way to gentle people in to using slrn.
>>
>> But a less competent level, due to masking of stuff it's good to know.
>
> That's the inevitable tradeoff with almost any GUI system, though -
> ease of use vs. power of use. Still, I don't think a little basic
> hand-holding setting up things like username, server, etc. is necessarily
> a bad thing here - work on the drug dealer principle (the first hit's
> free). As the newbie gets more accustomed to working with a CLI, said
> newbie will become more comfortable tweaking the config file to suit.
Well put.
If slrn had an optional interface long the lines of Knode or Pan (or tin or
xrn even), I'm sure it would have many more users - and there would be a
gentle learning curve for each user as they find features or settings they
want that require a little direct editing of config files or scripts.
Learning to swim is best started at the shallow end of the pool.
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> In news.software.readers on Monday 01 Dec 2003 1:05 am, Max
>> Quordlepleen
>><ma...@nonags.com> wrote:
>
>>> BTW, have you tried Gnus/Xemacs?
>
>> Not yet. I have dabbled briefly with Emacs, and felt totaly confused.
>> I haven't seen Xemacs, but it should be a little less daunting. Gnus
>> is on my list of things to have a go at.
>
> Speaking of daunt removal <g>, when you next look at a vi-family app,
> look at gvim. It adds a layer of mouseable (or [Alt]able) menuing, so
> as you're transitioning to it you have some hand-holding. I still use
> it, although because of it I can use vim itself, equally well (I rarely
> use the "g" aspects of it, any more.)
>
I have installed gvim - but I still like kate for editing scripts etc, and
kedit for viewing files and possibly for writing usenet articles. I shall
try to get familiar with basic vi, if only because it is said to be almost
universally available in *nix systems - but I don't promise to like it ;))
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
snip
>> Thanks for that :)) I was wondering how slrn would cope with multiple
>> servers, which is why a started playing with leafnode and am now thinking
>> of noffle.
>
> Very simple with a one-line shell script that runs slrn with host
> [whatever]. I think I posted one of mine on the thread, yesterday.
I think I read it too <g> You'll get me into slrn one of these days :))
Whiskers
<box...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in
> <news:8gks91-...@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>:
>
>> Hamster is the most Unix-like application I've used
>> with Windows, and there are occasional rumours about a possible
>> 'port' to Linux.
>
> There was a recent thread in hamster.en.config about this. It seems
> that Hamster uses too many Win32 APIs to make a port feasible. Hamster
> Playground is a bit less Win API-dependent (e.g. it does not use
> winsock) but still would require a major rewrite to compile using
> Kylix.
>
Too bad. All the more reason to be rooting for the Wine team.
I wonder how many usenetters there are out there, who persist with Windows
solely because of Hamster and the good choice of excellent free
news-readers? It took me a year to make the break.
Whiskers
<p...@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:32:13 +0000, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> I've got a slrn.rc file based on the sample that was installed along
>> with the rest of slrn, and I've been going through it step by step
>> with the slrn 'manual.txt' printed out (on paper) and slowly
>> working out what all the settings should be - but I keep coming up
>> against things I don't understand at all, so I have to go off and
>> find out what they mean and how to do whatever it is needs doing.
>
> It's not unheard of for questions about such things to be answered
> here. :-)
>
I like to exhaust my own detective powers before asking for help. I find I
learn better that way, and slrn is something I don't need to hurry with.
>> For example, "you need to set the NNTPSERVER environment variable
>> for this". Okay, so I found out what an environmental variable is,
>> and I'm getting closer to working out how to "set" one using the
>> shell I use (konsole/Mandrake 9.1) so that I don't have to type it
>> in every time I start the OS. Or could I include it in the command
>> that starts slrn?
>
> Put it in your .bashrc, as someone else suggested, and set it as
> either "localhost" or "127.0.0.1" to retrieve articles from leafnode.
> (I assume the same applies to noffle and other local servers, but I
> haven't tried it.)
>
Noffle certainly - which makes running noffle and leafnode in parallel look
unlikely, so I shall probably get Pan running in 'off line' mode so that I
can remove leafnode and start playing with noffle.
>> Then there's "set server_object This can either be set to "nntp"
>> (read online) or "spool" (use local spool)". Hmmm. I've got
>> 'leafnode' running; would that make a 'spool' slrn can use? If so,
>> what's it called and where is it? I'm getting closer to that one,
>> I think.
>
> No, you want "nntp" for leafnode. You'd use "spool" if you were using
> slrnpull.
>
Leafnode's spool seems to be in it's own form.
>> Then there's "Which external programs do you want to use?" Spoilt
>> for choice :)) Not vi, that's pretty certain.
>
> Correct. Vim is much nicer. :-)
>
And Gvim is even nicer ;))
>> I think kedit would be good - it's quick to load and has a spelling
>> checker, and it looks friendly, at any rate.
>
> That will probably do, until you begin to notice how nicely formatted
> Vim-users' posts are.
>
I do approve of good presentation.
>> Then I'll want to set up a way to send SMTP
>
> Do you have a mailserver (e.g. exim, sendmail etc) installed and
> configured? If so it's easy.
>
Postfix installed by default as part of Mandrake 9.1; I haven't delved into
it yet.
>> (and ideally get copies of the e-mails I send, into Kmail too),
>
> Probably you just need to store sent mail in one of Kmails folders.
> (I haven't tested this.)
>
I have Kmail set up to use 'maildir' directories, so as you suggest, any
file in ~/Mail/ is treated as a 'folder' by Kmail (even if it's really a
script!). Each directory has three directories in it (cur, new, and tmp)
and the messages are stored in those as text files with what looks like an
index number as the file name - I haven't fathomed out how the file-names
work or whether any file in those 'folders' will be recognised by Kmail.
(I'm very impressed by Kmail, incidentally).
>> and a default browser, and they need to be fed commands that they
>> understand.
>>
>> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole
>> new operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in
>> the long run, even if I never use slrn.
>
> The practice with .rc files is bound to be useful.
>
As will the practice with man files and the discovery of various aspects of
'Linux under the bonnet [hood]'.
>> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet
>
> That's probably because your NNTPSERVER variable isn't set.
>
Almost certainly.
snip
>> Hamster is superior to leafnode, in my opinion.
>
> It has more features, if that's what you want.
>
It also copes better with up-stream servers that misbehave.
>> It isn't 'transparent' though, and you need to set it up as both a
>> 'client' to the upstream feeds and a 'server' for the user(s),
>
> That shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
>
It doesn't - when you know how. Version 2 was a major improvement.
>> and a user can't get any groups that aren't already being pulled or
>> created by Hamster - and Hamster won't automatically stop pulling
>> groups that are no longer being read.
>
> That's because it's more like a "real" newsserver than leafnode is.
> It's the administrator who makes such decisions, not the users.
>
I suspect a (small) 'real' news service could be operated using Hamster; at
least for an office network or perhaps even a cyber-cafe.
>> You could probably write scripts to make it more transparent.
>
> Possibly. It seems that Hamster Playground can be configured to pull
> and drop groups in response to the users' wishes, but I'm happy with
> Hamster Classic + Korrnews myself.
>
I've never tried Korrnews, but I've heard good things about it.
You certainly have customised headers ;))
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
snip
>> My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
>> quoted text very neatly.
>
> That it does!
OK, OK, - I'll have a go with vim ;))
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
True - Hamster is maturing nicely though.
Whiskers
<bigbi...@ohmster.com> wrote:
> Xnews is really like the best newsreader of all time. In linux, about the
> best there is would be Pan. Pan does not do binary uploads worth a damn.
> Has Xnews ever been ported or will it (drooling at the prospect) ever be
> compiled for linux?
>
You certainly got a good thread going! <BG>
(Even if it doesn't help you a lot).
SINNER
>> Whiskers wrote:
This is a great site:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/tutorials.jsp
requires registration to get to the tutorials but its free and they have
a few very nice ones, in particular a nice VI intro with cheat sheet
creation:
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/l-dw-linuxvi-i.html?S_TACT=103AMW03&S_CMP=EDU
watch for wrap and dont forget to register ;)
They cover the LPI certification in tutorial form as well.
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
Boycott meat -- suck your thumb.
Blinky the Shark
> A lot depends on what you are already familiar with. Hamster 2 is a
> lot more straight-forward than Hamster 1.
I know it's just an urban legend, but I still can't read that particular
paragraph without thinking of Richard Gere. :)
Blinky the Shark
> On 1 Dec 2003 22:53:57 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
> wrote:
>> Pardoz wrote:
>>> Actually at the mo' I'm using a little editor called 'fte'.
>>> Small, fast, does just enough for what I need it for, no more,
>>> no less. Still
>> Fast Text Editor. :)
> B'lieve it's "folding", actually.
>> Oh, but I'll be sticking with gvim -- the semi graphical version of
>> vim. I'm by now very accustomed to macros and aliases (abbrs), and
>> such.
> "Semi-graphical"? Pretty CLI? At any rate, I'll have to take a
> squint, although I was rather underwhelmed by vi last time I
> looked at it. Admittedly, that was about six or eight years
> ago.
No, it's actually GUI. I can't tell you exactly why I think of it as
"semi-graphical", but I admit it's my quirk. I'd say it's because I
rarely use the icons and menus so *I* use it pretty much the way I would
vim; but I think there's more to it (my quirk) than that. Probably best
if I just said "I'm weird". :)
>>> 'strooth. I believe I saw a mention a while back that somebody
>>> was working on a GUI front-end to the .slrnrc file, which
>>> strikes me as a nice way to gentle people in to using slrn.
>> But a less competent level, due to masking of stuff it's good to
>> know.
> That's the inevitable tradeoff with almost any GUI system,
> though - ease of use vs. power of use. Still, I don't think a
> little basic
Agreed.
> hand-holding setting up things like username, server, etc. is
> necessarily a bad thing here - work on the drug dealer principle (the
> first hit's free). As the newbie gets more accustomed to working with
> a CLI, said newbie will become more comfortable tweaking the config
> file to suit.
That's true -- and, frankly, I don't mind the ease of click-click
tweaking, myself, although I don't demand it. Some will rely only on
the click-click; some will go deeper. And some, as we see every day,
won't even explore the GUI menus that are right in front of them ("How
do I import bookmarks in my browser?").
Blinky the Shark
That's it. Yeah, that one. It's been a while since I scratch-installed
slrn, and my MeatRAM is highly thought-permeable. :)
So yeah, that could've been a problem for whiskers, too, if he missed
that requirement.
Blinky the Shark
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 05:17:59 GMT, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> proffered, in :
> news:slrnbso852....@thurston.blinkynet.net:
>>> Kinda like wot I done wiv slrn and slrnpull.
>> I thought you tried slrn first, and went to GNUS when you couldn't
>> get it to work right...
> Yeah, that was in Mandrake 9.0, but since then, in 9.1 and 9.2, I've
> always installed slrn and slrnpull just to be ecumenical.
I figured they were long gone. So you have them up and running and
configured?
Blinky the Shark
> I have installed gvim - but I still like kate for editing scripts etc, and
> kedit for viewing files and possibly for writing usenet articles. I shall
> try to get familiar with basic vi, if only because it is said to be almost
> universally available in *nix systems - but I don't promise to like it ;))
If you get as far as macros (and maybe abbreviations/aliases) with gvim, you
won't go back to a nonprogrammable editor. :)
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 5:27 am, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> snip
>>> My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
>>> quoted text very neatly.
>> That it does!
> OK, OK, - I'll have a go with vim ;))
That's half the idea, Knoder. ;)
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Monday 01 Dec 2003 11:15 pm, Louis
><usen...@ossh.com> wrote:
> snip Gnus set-up guide
>> I would use slrn if I wasnt so addicted to GNU Emacs / Gnus, but that
>> is just me.
>> I realized I was addicted to GNU Emacs when I started using Emacs
>> keybindings on Microsoft Word 2002. :'(
> Ironic that the best (read as 'only') 'get you started' guide I've seen for
> Gnus, should be in an Xnews thread ;))
And what's probably been the *most* discussed heavily, here? Slrn and vim. :)
Blinky the Shark
Here's a fine point: as I read (before hitting "followup") your reply,
the blank line you see before your line "I do approve of good
presentation" had one character -- a greater-than (quote indicator).
That's normal and common, and I'm not saying it's sloppy to have those
black lines get greater-thans. BUT you'll notice that it's gone, in my
reply. As are all the other ">"s that were pointing to blank lines.
I've told gvim to remove those orphan ">"s, and it does so as part of
its task of opening the post for my reply. I didn't even have to hit a
shortcut key. I mention this as an example of what I meant when I said,
a few minutes ago, in another post, that once you use a programmable
editor, you won't go back to one that's not.
In that post, I also mentioned abbreviations. Long as I'm yakking,
here, I'll 'splain that. After the blank line that follows this
paragraph, I'll type "bnet" (without the quotes). You'll see what gvim
turns that into, once I hit the space that follows the four letters:
Similarly, and more work-savingly <g>, if I type "rfcs1036" (again,
without the quotes), when I hit the space that follows it, I end up
with:
http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/netnews/son-of-1036.html
> I have Kmail set up to use 'maildir' directories, so as you suggest,
> any file in ~/Mail/ is treated as a 'folder' by Kmail (even if it's
> really a script!). Each directory has three directories in it (cur,
> new, and tmp) and the messages are stored in those as text files with
> what looks like an index number as the file name - I haven't fathomed
> out how the file-names work or whether any file in those 'folders'
> will be recognised by Kmail.
> (I'm very impressed by Kmail, incidentally).
I use Kmail. I play with mutt. Mutt reads kmail data. :)
>>> and a default browser, and they need to be fed commands that they
>>> understand.
>>> And so on - I'm not just 'setting up slrn', I'm learning a whole new
>>> operating system as I go. It will probably be worthwhile in the
>>> long run, even if I never use slrn.
>> The practice with .rc files is bound to be useful.
> As will the practice with man files and the discovery of various
> aspects of 'Linux under the bonnet [hood]'.
I can't enter
man bash
without feeling like a traitor to my gender. :)
>>> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet
>> That's probably because your NNTPSERVER variable isn't set.
> Almost certainly.
And as discussed in another branch of this thread (which I don't know if
you're reading), a comments on the need to run the --create switch the
first time, to generate a new .jnwesrc (newsgroups list) file.
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Saturday 29 Nov 2003 5:04 am, Ohmster
><bigbi...@ohmster.com> wrote:
>> Xnews is really like the best newsreader of all time. In linux, about the
>> best there is would be Pan. Pan does not do binary uploads worth a damn.
>> Has Xnews ever been ported or will it (drooling at the prospect) ever be
>> compiled for linux?
> You certainly got a good thread going! <BG>
Especially given that the answer to the OP can honestly be given as,
simply, "no". :)
> (Even if it doesn't help you a lot).
Well, it does tell him he's probably going to end up with Pan. :)
(Actually, I'm far from being the only Xnews-slrn migration. I think
people who want the stuff Xnews offers are good candidates for slrn,
really, if they can get past the GUI dependency.
--
SINNER
>> I do approve of good presentation.
> Here's a fine point: as I read (before hitting "followup") your reply,
> the blank line you see before your line "I do approve of good
> presentation" had one character -- a greater-than (quote indicator).
> That's normal and common, and I'm not saying it's sloppy to have those
> black lines get greater-thans. BUT you'll notice that it's gone, in my
> reply. As are all the other ">"s that were pointing to blank lines.
> I've told gvim to remove those orphan ">"s, and it does so as part of
> its task of opening the post for my reply. I didn't even have to hit a
> shortcut key. I mention this as an example of what I meant when I said,
> a few minutes ago, in another post, that once you use a programmable
> editor, you won't go back to one that's not.
Love that one!
> In that post, I also mentioned abbreviations. Long as I'm yakking,
> here, I'll 'splain that. After the blank line that follows this
> paragraph, I'll type "bnet" (without the quotes). You'll see what gvim
> turns that into, once I hit the space that follows the four letters:
This I knew nothing about, very nice, consider this tip stolen as well
;)
> Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
> [still no new sig]
Heh, no sig at all :P~
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
Total strangers need love, too; and I'm stranger than most.
Blinky the Shark
> * Blinky the Shark Wrote in news.software.readers, on 2 Dec 2003 20:40:22 GMT:
>>> I do approve of good presentation.
>> Here's a fine point: as I read (before hitting "followup") your reply,
>> the blank line you see before your line "I do approve of good
>> presentation" had one character -- a greater-than (quote indicator).
>> That's normal and common, and I'm not saying it's sloppy to have those
>> black lines get greater-thans. BUT you'll notice that it's gone, in my
>> reply. As are all the other ">"s that were pointing to blank lines.
>> I've told gvim to remove those orphan ">"s, and it does so as part of
>> its task of opening the post for my reply. I didn't even have to hit a
>> shortcut key. I mention this as an example of what I meant when I said,
>> a few minutes ago, in another post, that once you use a programmable
>> editor, you won't go back to one that's not.
> Love that one!
Consider it yours. :)
>> In that post, I also mentioned abbreviations. Long as I'm yakking,
>> here, I'll 'splain that. After the blank line that follows this
>> paragraph, I'll type "bnet" (without the quotes). You'll see what gvim
>> turns that into, once I hit the space that follows the four letters:
> This I knew nothing about, very nice, consider this tip stolen as well
> ;)
That's what Good Stuff is for, my friend -- sharing.
>> Blinky - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Linux RU 297263
>> [still no new sig]
> Heh, no sig at all :P~
Whuh? I am *Mister*[1] Valid Sig Delimiter! <g> Must've been seriously
overzealous with my snippage. Apologies to all.
[1]I've probably got in more shitfights on Usenet over the simple act of
using valid sig delimiters (OE-'tards beware!) than any other single
topic. :)
--
Pardoz
> If slrn had an optional interface long the lines of Knode or Pan (or tin or
> xrn even), I'm sure it would have many more users - and there would be a
> gentle learning curve for each user as they find features or settings they
> want that require a little direct editing of config files or scripts.
> Learning to swim is best started at the shallow end of the pool.
I'm going to have to take a look at the (seemingly abandoned) GUI
.slrnrc writing tool one of these days and see how much work it would take to
get it up to current spec, I think. <making mental note and adding to pile
of project I mean to get to One Of These Days Real Soon When I've Got Some
Time).
Pardoz
> Pardoz wrote:
>
>> On 2 Dec 2003 05:27:56 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
>> wrote:
>
>>> And/or don't you have to run slrn once with a particular switch you
>>> don't need on subsequent starts, to create the scorefile, or
>>> something?
>
>>IMS, slrn --create on the first run, in order to create a .jnewsrc file
>>(unless you've already got a .newsrc file you've already created with
>>something else lying around, in which case you can just cp .newsrc
>>.jnewsrc and you're good to go).
>
> That's it. Yeah, that one. It's been a while since I scratch-installed
> slrn, and my MeatRAM is highly thought-permeable. :)
Mine, too - that's why I cheated and fired up a copy of slrn with the
--help option. I honestly can't remember the last time I scratch-installed
it (in emergencies I run the somewhat dated version on my shell account, and
I always keep a backup copy of my config files there, should I need to switch
machines).
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> I have installed gvim - but I still like kate for editing scripts etc,
>> and kedit for viewing files and possibly for writing usenet articles. I
>> shall try to get familiar with basic vi, if only because it is said to be
>> almost universally available in *nix systems - but I don't promise to
>> like it ;))
>
> If you get as far as macros (and maybe abbreviations/aliases) with gvim,
> you won't go back to a nonprogrammable editor. :)
>
Give me time :))
Whiskers
<99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.INVALID> wrote:
> This is a great site:
>
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/tutorials.jsp
>
> requires registration to get to the tutorials but its free and they have
> a few very nice ones, in particular a nice VI intro with cheat sheet
> creation:
>
>http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/l-dw-linuxvi-i.html?S_TACT=103AMW03&S_CMP=EDU
>
> watch for wrap and dont forget to register ;)
>
> They cover the LPI certification in tutorial form as well.
Thanks for the links :))
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
snip
> I can't enter
>
> man bash
>
> without feeling like a traitor to my gender. :)
>
I wonder if the State govt (I forget which one) that wants all 'sexist'
words used in computing, to be eliminated from all documentation and
labels, will insist on the man command being replaced, along with 'male'
'female' and 'gender reverser'?
>>>> I haven't even got to the point where slrn will load, yet
>
>>> That's probably because your NNTPSERVER variable isn't set.
>
>> Almost certainly.
>
> And as discussed in another branch of this thread (which I don't know if
> you're reading), a comments on the need to run the --create switch the
> first time, to generate a new .jnwesrc (newsgroups list) file.
I think I saw that one.
Those little steps are so easy to overlook. I've forgotten to run lilo once
or twice, and been very perplexed by the ###### machine ;))
Whiskers
<99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.INVALID> wrote:
snip
> This I knew nothing about, very nice, consider this tip stolen as well
> ;)
They are good tips :)) I can see this thread ending up as a complete
"newbies' tutorial".
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 5:27 am, Blinky the Shark
>><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>
>> snip
>
>>>> My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
>>>> quoted text very neatly.
>
>>> That it does!
>
>> OK, OK, - I'll have a go with vim ;))
>
> That's half the idea, Knoder. ;)
>
I am getting Pan sorted. I probably won't be a Knoder for much longer.
That is an intermediate move, don't give up on me just yet :))
(I'm also playing with Opera's M2 mail+news client - interesting, but not a
slrn replacement quite yet).
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> In news.software.readers on Saturday 29 Nov 2003 5:04 am, Ohmster
>><bigbi...@ohmster.com> wrote:
>
>>> Xnews is really like the best newsreader of all time. In linux, about
>>> the best there is would be Pan. Pan does not do binary uploads worth a
>>> damn. Has Xnews ever been ported or will it (drooling at the prospect)
>>> ever be compiled for linux?
>
>> You certainly got a good thread going! <BG>
>
> Especially given that the answer to the OP can honestly be given as,
> simply, "no". :)
>
I don't think usenet allows a one-word response. Must be an RFC about it,
but I haven't looked (yet).
>> (Even if it doesn't help you a lot).
>
> Well, it does tell him he's probably going to end up with Pan. :)
>
But what is there for uploading binaries? (Not that I like the idea of
binaries in usenet; what are HTTP and FTP for?).
> (Actually, I'm far from being the only Xnews-slrn migration. I think
> people who want the stuff Xnews offers are good candidates for slrn,
> really, if they can get past the GUI dependency.
>
Agreed. Once you're hooked on a top-notch program, settling for anything
less functional is never satisfactory for long.
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>>IMS, slrn --create on the first run, in order to create a .jnewsrc file
>>(unless you've already got a .newsrc file you've already created with
>>something else lying around, in which case you can just cp .newsrc
>>.jnewsrc and you're good to go).
>
> That's it. Yeah, that one. It's been a while since I scratch-installed
> slrn, and my MeatRAM is highly thought-permeable. :)
>
> So yeah, that could've been a problem for whiskers, too, if he missed
> that requirement.
He had.
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> Whiskers wrote:
>
>> A lot depends on what you are already familiar with. Hamster 2 is a
>> lot more straight-forward than Hamster 1.
>
> I know it's just an urban legend, but I still can't read that particular
> paragraph without thinking of Richard Gere. :)
>
I don't get that reference - but there was a notorious tabloid headline that
appeared in the UK several years ago: "[a celebrity whose name I've
forgotten] ate my hamster".
Whiskers
<no....@box.invalid> wrote:
snip
>> Ironic that the best (read as 'only') 'get you started' guide I've seen
>> for Gnus, should be in an Xnews thread ;))
>
> And what's probably been the most discussed heavily, here? Slrn and vim.
> :)
Is this turning into another vi-Emacs war?
SINNER
[...]
> But what is there for uploading binaries?
slrn can be used in conjunction with say vim and uuencode to post
binaries. There is a Linux binary poster, I dont recall the name ATM.
[...]
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
The 80's -- when you can't tell hairstyles from chemotherapy.
DC
> I don't know about that, but I'd *think* so. I'm totally guessing, here,
> but I'd think there to be an expected place for a news spool [...snip]
...as opposed to an unexpected place for a spool? }:OD
--
DC
When Microsoft starts making something that doesn't suck, it'll probably
be a vacuum cleaner. -- PhotoMan (24hoursupport.helpdesk)
Richard Steiner
Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> spake unto us, saying:
>Is this turning into another vi-Emacs war?
I hope so. Maybe both camps will kill themselves off, and the rest of
us can use *real* text editors! ;-) ;-)
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment (again).
See web site in my signature for current resume and background.
Max Quordlepleen
>> Yeah, that was in Mandrake 9.0, but since then, in 9.1 and 9.2,
>> I've always installed slrn and slrnpull just to be ecumenical.
> I figured they were long gone. So you have them up and running and
>configured?
Not yet. They are on my to-do list (the making of which is near the
top of my to-do list).
Max Quordlepleen
> I realized I was addicted to GNU Emacs when I started using Emacs
> keybindings on Microsoft Word 2002. :'(
Well, I'm not quite there yet, but I am always trying to control and
navigate through Xnews with GNus/Xemacs keybindings.
»Q«
<news:retu91-...@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>:
> I wonder how many usenetters there are out there, who persist with
> Windows solely because of Hamster and the good choice of excellent
> free news-readers? It took me a year to make the break.
I've got reasons other than Usenet, but it's a major one for me. I
dual boot, but most of what I do is still in Windows, and I'll get very
confused if I try to deal with Usenet from two environments. I'm
installing Emacs & Gnus under Win soon to see if I can stand it, and
I'll also see if slrn under Win does it for me. If either works out,
I'll install it in Linux and be one step closer.... Baby steps to
Linux. ;)
--
»Q« It's is not, it isn't ain't, and it's it's, not its, if you
mean it is. If you don't, it's its. Then too, it's hers.
It isn't her's. It isn't our's either. It's ours, and
likewise yours and theirs.
-- Oxford University Press, Edpress News
Whiskers
<par...@io.georgewbush.com.invalid> wrote:
snip
> I'm going to have to take a look at the (seemingly abandoned) GUI
> .slrnrc writing tool one of these days and see how much work it would take
> to get it up to current spec, I think. <making mental note and adding to
> pile of project I mean to get to One Of These Days Real Soon When I've Got
> Some Time).
Many of us newbies would be very grateful :))
Whiskers
<box...@gmx.net> wrote:
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote in
> <news:retu91-...@ID-107770.user.uni-berlin.de>:
>
>> I wonder how many usenetters there are out there, who persist with
>> Windows solely because of Hamster and the good choice of excellent
>> free news-readers? It took me a year to make the break.
>
> I've got reasons other than Usenet, but it's a major one for me. I
> dual boot, but most of what I do is still in Windows, and I'll get very
> confused if I try to deal with Usenet from two environments. I'm
> installing Emacs & Gnus under Win soon to see if I can stand it, and
> I'll also see if slrn under Win does it for me. If either works out,
> I'll install it in Linux and be one step closer.... Baby steps to
> Linux. ;)
>
Isn't Pan available for Windows now? Opera has an interesting mail+news
client (but somewhat short of finished), in both the Linux and Windows
versions.
Max Quordlepleen
> I'm
> installing Emacs & Gnus under Win soon to see if I can stand it
Stop right there - of course it will! <g>
I went with the native Win32 version (of Xemacs), rather than the
Cygwin version, and now I use GNUs in W2K and Mandrake 9.2 and spend
less and less time in Xnews. I have a couple of minor configuration
tweaks to sort out before I abandon KNode as well.
--
Nationalism is an infantile disease, the measles of humanity. -
Einstein
Blinky the Shark
> Mine, too - that's why I cheated and fired up a copy of slrn with the
No fair! :)
> --help option. I honestly can't remember the last time I scratch-installed
> it (in emergencies I run the somewhat dated version on my shell account, and
I'm not using the latest'n'greatest, either.
> I always keep a backup copy of my config files there, should I need to switch
> machines).
Good plan.
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 8:40 pm, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
> snip
>> I can't enter
>> man bash
>> without feeling like a traitor to my gender. :)
> I wonder if the State govt (I forget which one) that wants all 'sexist'
> words used in computing, to be eliminated from all documentation and
> labels, will insist on the man command being replaced, along with 'male'
> 'female' and 'gender reverser'?
Sadly, probably it will.
I don't know if your reference is to one of our idiotic California agencies
that seem to be having trouble with the "racist" terms "master" and "slave"
for hard drive assignments. I've mentioned that, but I don't remember
if it was in this group.
--
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 8:17 pm, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>> Whiskers wrote:
>>> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 5:27 am, Blinky the Shark
>>><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>>> snip
>>>>> My reason for using Vim as my editor with SLRN is that it rewraps
>>>>> quoted text very neatly.
>>>> That it does!
>>> OK, OK, - I'll have a go with vim ;))
>> That's half the idea, Knoder. ;)
> I am getting Pan sorted. I probably won't be a Knoder for much longer.
> That is an intermediate move, don't give up on me just yet :))
I use pan once in a while, for binaries.
> (I'm also playing with Opera's M2 mail+news client - interesting, but not a
> slrn replacement quite yet).
I've played with that, and also with Mozilla's.
Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
editor.
Blinky the Shark
> But what is there for uploading binaries? (Not that I like the idea of
> binaries in usenet; what are HTTP and FTP for?).
Dunno. I've never uploaded a binary. I use a website.
Blinky the Shark
> In news.software.readers on Tuesday 02 Dec 2003 8:19 pm, Blinky the Shark
><no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>> Whiskers wrote:
>>> A lot depends on what you are already familiar with. Hamster 2 is a
>>> lot more straight-forward than Hamster 1.
>> I know it's just an urban legend, but I still can't read that particular
>> paragraph without thinking of Richard Gere. :)
> I don't get that reference - but there was a notorious tabloid headline that
> appeared in the UK several years ago: "[a celebrity whose name I've
> forgotten] ate my hamster".
Google keywords: gere hamster
Blinky the Shark
> Here in news.software.readers,
> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> spake unto us, saying:
>>Is this turning into another vi-Emacs war?
> I hope so. Maybe both camps will kill themselves off, and the rest of
> us can use *real* text editors! ;-) ;-)
What *is* the latest release of edlin, anyway? :)
Blinky the Shark
> On 1 Dec 2003 12:05:27 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> wrote:
>> I don't know about that, but I'd *think* so. I'm totally guessing, here,
>> but I'd think there to be an expected place for a news spool [...snip]
> ...as opposed to an unexpected place for a spool? }:OD
Don't make me come over there. :)
Blinky the Shark
> client (but somewhat short of finished), in both the Linux and Windows
> versions.
Must we *surgically* remove this fascination you have for combo units?
Richard Hoskins
> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
> editor.
Have you tried setting your external editor to "konsole -e vim %f"?
--
Lift me down, so I can make the Earth tremble.
--Bucky Katt
SINNER
[...]
> Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
> editor.
Well, you got me curious so I am having a go, I am able to get it to
start gvim, but not vim.
It opens a file for editing called:
/tmp/kde-sinner/knodezS1jYb.tmp
but when I 'ZZ' it seemed to go nonwhere. Is this what you and others
have been seeing? Strange happening with Kate also, it initially opened
a temp file with the quoted text, but immeaediatly says the file has
changegd. Reloading gets me a blank file, saving gets me the same
results as I got with gvim...nothing ;)
--
David | AGM Favorite Games - http://tinyurl.com/loec
Super sweet!
Blinky the Shark
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> writes:
>> Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
>> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
>> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
>> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
>> editor.
> Have you tried setting your external editor to "konsole -e vim %f"?
Note: I used "vim" generically, to represent the family of editors; I
actually use gvim.
<clicketyclick>
When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not quoted.
Blinky the Shark
> Blinky the Shark wrote:
>> DC wrote:
>>> On 1 Dec 2003 12:05:27 GMT, Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I don't know about that, but I'd *think* so. I'm totally guessing,
>>>> here, but I'd think there to be an expected place for a news spool
>>>> [...snip]
>>> ...as opposed to an unexpected place for a spool? }:OD
>> Don't make me come over there. :)
> Actually, you're right. There should be an expected place for a news
> spool, but depending on the OS, sometimes they show up where you don't
> want them. Grrrrrr!!!
Especially, I would think, in MS OSs.
Blinky the Shark
> * Blinky the Shark Wrote in news.software.readers, on 4 Dec 2003 23:21:35 GMT:
> [...]
>> Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
>> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
>> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
>> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
>> editor.
> Well, you got me curious so I am having a go, I am able to get it to
> start gvim, but not vim.
It's actually gvim that I use. :)
> It opens a file for editing called:
> /tmp/kde-sinner/knodezS1jYb.tmp
Yep.
1) Its name isn't predictable, like .followup and .article.
2) It doesn't quote the post I'm responding to.
3) ...
> but when I 'ZZ' it seemed to go nonwhere. Is this what you and others
> have been seeing? Strange happening with Kate also, it initially opened
> a temp file with the quoted text, but immeaediatly says the file has
> changegd. Reloading gets me a blank file, saving gets me the same
> results as I got with gvim...nothing ;)
...it doesn't pass the edited document back to Kmail.
All of the above is with the command someone else just posted to this
thread. Other variations of the command produce various flavors of
unsatisfactory results (can't be specific -- I/we did testing in
comp.editors, not here, before failing the *last* time).
Richard Hoskins
> Richard Hoskins wrote:
>
>> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> writes:
>
>>> Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
>>> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
>>> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
>>> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
>>> editor.
>
>> Have you tried setting your external editor to "konsole -e vim %f"?
>
> Note: I used "vim" generically, to represent the family of editors; I
> actually use gvim.
>
> <clicketyclick>
>
> When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not quoted.
gvim is an X app, right, or are you running it from the console? If
it is an X app, you're going to have a tough time passing text between
a KDE (Knode) and Gnome (gvim) apps.
The command I gave you *should* work by bringing up vim in a KDE
console, with the behavior you expect. IIRC gvim is just "vim -g".
Pardoz
> Pardoz wrote:
>> --help option. I honestly can't remember the last time I scratch-installed
>> it (in emergencies I run the somewhat dated version on my shell account, and
>
> I'm not using the latest'n'greatest, either.
I'm using the latest'n'greatest on my Li(gn)ux box, running one
version behind on my Windoze box, and I b'lieve two behind on my shell
account (mostly 'cause I can't be bothered installing my own copy there,
since I almost never use it).
>> I always keep a backup copy of my config files there, should I need to switch
>> machines).
>
> Good plan.
One that's saved my bacon more'n once, too. I really, really
recommend keeping backups of things like that - even setting up a
Yahoo/Hotmail/whatever account and emailing 'em to yourself works. Among
other things it makes system upgrades/changes/moves a whole lot less painful.
Blinky the Shark
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> writes:
>> Richard Hoskins wrote:
>>> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> writes:
>>>> Speaking of vim (we were, a moment ago <g>), I'd love to be able to use
>>>> it with Kmail. But nobody (in the groups I've tried, which includes
>>>> comp.editors, which is heavily vim-oriented the way this one is heavily
>>>> Xnews-oriented) has been able to get it to work as a Kmail external
>>>> editor.
>>> Have you tried setting your external editor to "konsole -e vim %f"?
>> Note: I used "vim" generically, to represent the family of editors; I
>> actually use gvim.
>> <clicketyclick>
>> When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not quoted.
> gvim is an X app, right, or are you running it from the console? If
My desktop shortcut command runs: /usr/X11R6/bin/gvim
If I happen to be in a console when I want it, I usually just run
the command: gvim
When I open a followup or a new post in slrn, slrn runs it from
this setting:
set editor_command "gvim -f '+set tw=72' +%d '%s'"
> it is an X app, you're going to have a tough time passing text between
> a KDE (Knode) and Gnome (gvim) apps.
Kmail.
And we have had that tough time. LIS, comp.editors couldn't even come up
with anything.
> The command I gave you *should* work by bringing up vim in a KDE
> console, with the behavior you expect. IIRC gvim is just "vim -g".
Above: "When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not quoted."
Richard Hoskins
> When I open a followup or a new post in slrn, slrn runs it from
> this setting:
>
> set editor_command "gvim -f '+set tw=72' +%d '%s'"
So maybe "konsole -e gvim -f '+set tw=72' +%d '%s'"? I think the
thing I am trying to do is to have konsole (a KDE app) to be called,
and then have konsole call gvim. konsole and gvim can then work
together as regular console apps.
>> it is an X app, you're going to have a tough time passing text
>> between a KDE (Knode) and Gnome (gvim) apps.
>
> Kmail.
>
> And we have had that tough time. LIS, comp.editors couldn't even
> come up with anything.
I think the KDE and Gnome folks might be of some help.
>> The command I gave you *should* work by bringing up vim in a KDE
>> console, with the behavior you expect. IIRC gvim is just "vim -g".
>
> Above: "When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not
> quoted."
I know, that is why I used the qualifier "should." I have seen that
command work, albeit with a vim with no gnome stuff compiled in.
Richard Steiner
Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> spake unto us, saying:
>Richard Steiner wrote:
>
>> Here in news.software.readers,
>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> spake unto us, saying:
>
>>>Is this turning into another vi-Emacs war?
>
>> I hope so. Maybe both camps will kill themselves off, and the rest of
>> us can use *real* text editors! ;-) ;-)
>
>What *is* the latest release of edlin, anyway? :)
Edlin? Phffft! *Real* DOS weenies use debug. :-)
I must admit I *do* like vim (it's certainly better than the stock vi),
but I use FTE when I can, at least under Linux, DOS, OS/2, and Windows.
It's nice that there are several unique approaches to the problem of
editing text files -- that way, one can choose the one that fits them
the best. Same with newsreaders. Ain't choice grand?
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
Applications analyst/designer/developer (14 yrs) seeking employment.
See web site above for resume/CV and background.
Blinky the Shark
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> writes:
>> When I open a followup or a new post in slrn, slrn runs it from
>> this setting:
>> set editor_command "gvim -f '+set tw=72' +%d '%s'"
> So maybe "konsole -e gvim -f '+set tw=72' +%d '%s'"? I think the
That still won't get a predictable filename for the editor.
That said, I'll try it in Kmail...<clicketyclick>...
Opens a file in gvim with nothing quoted, and calls it:
'+set
And seeing that filename reminds me that in comp.editors, we went through
that starting-point command string with all kinds of variations, before.
> thing I am trying to do is to have konsole (a KDE app) to be called,
> and then have konsole call gvim. konsole and gvim can then work
> together as regular console apps.
>>> it is an X app, you're going to have a tough time passing text
>>> between a KDE (Knode) and Gnome (gvim) apps.
>> Kmail.
>> And we have had that tough time. LIS, comp.editors couldn't even
>> come up with anything.
> I think the KDE and Gnome folks might be of some help.
Might check them out -- thanks for that tip.
>>> The command I gave you *should* work by bringing up vim in a KDE
>>> console, with the behavior you expect. IIRC gvim is just "vim -g".
>> Above: "When gvim opens, the message to which I'm replying is not
>> quoted."
> I know, that is why I used the qualifier "should." I have seen that
> command work, albeit with a vim with no gnome stuff compiled in.
I tried it in vim, and while it behaved differently, it still used a
wonky unpredictable filename -- and I'm very used to being able to tweak
my editor to do what I want based on filenames. Sorry to be so
demanding. :)
Blinky the Shark
> Here in news.software.readers,
> Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> spake unto us, saying:
>>Richard Steiner wrote:
>>> Here in news.software.readers,
>>> Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> spake unto us, saying:
>>>>Is this turning into another vi-Emacs war?
>>> I hope so. Maybe both camps will kill themselves off, and the rest of
>>> us can use *real* text editors! ;-) ;-)
>>What *is* the latest release of edlin, anyway? :)
> Edlin? Phffft! *Real* DOS weenies use debug. :-)
> I must admit I *do* like vim (it's certainly better than the stock vi),
> but I use FTE when I can, at least under Linux, DOS, OS/2, and Windows.
Anybody remember Semware's Qedit -- now, I believe TSE? Loved that one.
> It's nice that there are several unique approaches to the problem of
> editing text files -- that way, one can choose the one that fits them
> the best. Same with newsreaders. Ain't choice grand?
With standards, too. ;)
Max Quordlepleen
>> I always keep a backup copy of my config files there, should I need
>> to switch machines).
> Good plan.
I have taken to uploading my .gnus to my website for safe-keeping, and
I have to say that this thread has been fantastic. I've been a lazy
GNUsboy, not utilising its marvellous capabilities at all, really, and
this thread has inspired me to get serious with it. So I have now set
up my archive folders for each group, and am about to start
playingwith customising signatures, etc. on a per-group basis. Not
earth-shattering stuff, but I probably wouldn't have bothered if it
hadn't been for this thread. KNode is fading fast, so thank to all,
even the VI-le slrrners.
--
Registered User 297164
GPG Key ID 1B1B6A1D5A2407C3
Noho ora mai, ka kite ano
http://maxqnz.com/References.html
Richard Steiner
Blinky the Shark <no....@box.invalid> spake unto us, saying:
>Anybody remember Semware's Qedit -- now, I believe TSE? Loved that one.
Yes -- I used Qedit for a while under DOS, but then I ran into TDE and
decided that a freeware editor was better than a payware one, at least
at the time.
Qedit is a more capable editor than TDE, though.
>> It's nice that there are several unique approaches to the problem of
>> editing text files -- that way, one can choose the one that fits them
>> the best. Same with newsreaders. Ain't choice grand?
>
>With standards, too. ;)
"Standards are wonderful -- so many to choose from!" :-)