Dick's Picks
Ubadick
Love all of the Dick's Picks but wish that the entire run would be
released as is.
I admit that you do get the highlights from three shows(ala Dozin'(Loser
aside)) but
will miss the feel of how the show progressed.
I'm sure I will love DPV7; just being selfish.
Thank-you Dick for doing what you do!!!
Enjoy!!
Don
Rick Scully
I too would prefer to see ONLY entire shows released as "Dick's
Picks." Isn't that what Dick was setting out to do? I say leave the
remastering of materials to Phil and keep releasing whole shows as the
Dick's Picks series.
Just my $.02
peace,
scully
Alan Topal
While I understand and respect your point of view, I don't share it. Take the case at
hand. Were Dick to limit himself to a single show, we would only get one of the
following:
9/9/74: Scarlet, Playin, Truckin>Wharf Rat>UJB
9/10/74: China>Rider, WRS>Stella, NFA, Dark Star>Dew
9/11/74: Scarlet, Playin, Phil'n'Ned>Eyes>space>Wharf Rat>space
The way he is doing it, we might get any or all of that stuff. I've got full shows on
tape (albiet none of these shows), gimmee just the cream on disc.
- Alan's $.02
GCeva
I agree with Alan. I also would love to have the complete shows released,
but I would also be very happy with "best of" disks. I really dig Dicks
4, which is a "best of". Lets not forget, we should be thankfull for any
vault releases that we can get!
Peace
Gregg
Rick Scully
Thanks for your point of view, Alan, but my point is that the Dick
supposedly originally set out to release whole shows from the archives
glitches and all.
let Phil release a best of a certain run.
I don't have any of these shows in my meager tape collection, and I
still think that making a best of isn't in our best interest. Hell,
release all the shows as one giant DP Box set.
Still, just my $.02
peace,
scully
bill
David A Gerstenhaber wrote:
>
> In article <32f2410d...@news.crosslink.net>, Rick Scully wrote:
> >I too would prefer to see ONLY entire shows released as "Dick's
> >Picks." Isn't that what Dick was setting out to do? I say leave the
> >remastering of materials to Phil and keep releasing whole shows as the
> >Dick's Picks series.
> >
> >Just my $.02
> >
> >scully
>
> I would agree with you there, the vault series is more suited for the
> Best of releases, they are easy to listen to and have mass market apeal
> but Dicks picks is a deadhead thing. Dick in the future stick with whole
> shows if you can. This may in fact not be dicks decision, but one of teh
> Suits in management. or maybe it is Phil who we all know is alittle
> bashful about releasing his own stuff.
>
> -Dave
I think if they are going to release 3 CDs, I'd prefer to have three CD's
worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
agree with him.
Bill
David A Gerstenhaber
Michael Turner
bill <crow...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
>jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
>It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
>agree with him.
>
>Bill
I'm actually rather looking forward to it. I've been jonesing for some
hot 74 action for a while.
Peace,
Michael
Rick Scully
>I think if they are going to release 3 CDs, I'd prefer to have three CD's
>worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
>jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
>It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
>agree with him.
Bill: if you trade tapes are you happy getting only one set of a show
or do you prefer to get a complete show? I for one try to trade for
complete shows. I also think that we are becoming spoiled if we feel
that getting 1 or 2 CDs isn't enough to quench our thirst for music.
I will gladly take a DP release a year of listenable music from a
single show and an occasional release from Phil. Anything is better
than nothing.
As far as what Dick is thinking, I don't want to speculate about that
because it is foolish to assume ANYONE thinks the way anyone else
does. I invite Dick to post his reasons behind going this route
though.
I will just hope that Dick will return to the 1 show per release
format and will not buy DP7 but instead will persue getting those
shows in as HQ condition as I can in the best format I can.
Peace to you,
scully
Rick Scully
>I'm actually rather looking forward to it. I've been jonesing for some
>hot 74 action for a while.
Do you have 8-6-74? Hot show and I just got a sweet crispy SBD/A2 and
will spin it for you for B&P.
peace,
scully
Derrick Hussey
Michael Turner <m.tu...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I'm actually rather looking forward to it. I've been jonesing for
>some hot 74 action for a while.
Derrick
David Gans
> >I think if they are going to release 3 CDs, I'd prefer to have three CD's
> >worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
> >jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
> >It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
> >agree with him.
> I will just hope that Dick will return to the 1 show per release
> format and will not buy DP7 but instead will persue getting those
> shows in as HQ condition as I can in the best format I can.
In more than ten years of producing the Grateful Dead Hour, I have had
this argument with myself and with various correspondents many times.
I've listened to a lot of Grateful Dead music, complete shows and
fragments. I have to choose what's appropriate for the Grateful Dead
Hour. I think my threshold of keeperdom is lower than that of the
people who choose stuff to be pressed into CDs and sold. I've heard
plenty of shows that deserve to be heard in their entirety, but I've
heard a lot more shows that did not. There is almost always a song or
two that doesn't make it, for one reason or another. As I (and others)
have stated repeatedly, perfection is not a core value in this musical
domain, and sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice. But there is
some stuff that doesn't dfeserve to be put on the air, and there is more
stuff that doesn't deserve to be enshrined in a formal release.
Indeed, it's the music that counts! I think it's kinda weird to state
that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
complete show?
--
David Gans t...@well.com
Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave #102, Oakland CA 94610
http://www.well.com/user/tnf/ AOL keyword = gdhour
Rick Scully
>In more than ten years of producing the Grateful Dead Hour, I have had
>this argument with myself and with various correspondents many times.
First of all David, thanks for replying. Secondly, i don't consider
any of this argument. I think of it as healthy discussion.
>I've listened to a lot of Grateful Dead music, complete shows and
>fragments. I have to choose what's appropriate for the Grateful Dead
>Hour. I think my threshold of keeperdom is lower than that of the
>people who choose stuff to be pressed into CDs and sold. I've heard
>plenty of shows that deserve to be heard in their entirety, but I've
>heard a lot more shows that did not. There is almost always a song or
>two that doesn't make it, for one reason or another. As I (and others)
>have stated repeatedly, perfection is not a core value in this musical
>domain, and sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice. But there is
>some stuff that doesn't dfeserve to be put on the air, and there is more
>stuff that doesn't deserve to be enshrined in a formal release.
I agree that some of the stuff should be left in the vault or to be
circulated via traders, but i can't remember EVER fast forwarding thru
such material on a tape. I love all the music. And as you said
"sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice" BUT what about the
generations of folks who will NEVER see a live show, and will have to
get their impressions about the magic from CDs and tapes. I for one
would be very disappointed if someone i was trading with decided that
the Darkstar of a particular show wasn't up to their liking and
therefore didn't make it to my tape. I don't want my children and so
forth to be "forced" to listen to different versions of Skeletons in
the Closet ad naseum under the name of Dick's Picks XXV.
>Indeed, it's the music that counts! I think it's kinda weird to state
>that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
>the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
>idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
>to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
>complete show?
Maybe i didn't make myself clear or you haven't seen my other posts.
it was my understanding that Dick's "mission statement" was to release
shows and to release them "as is" and that he would leave the
fixing-it-in-the-mix to Phil.
There have been plenty of rumor circulating around here and other
online forums (IRC, etc) and one is that there is pressure to release
"sexy" items (to use my old PR nomenclature) in order to sell more
merchandise. And I understand that GDP and GDM need to make money in
order to take care of the family, but that doesn't mean I have to buy
that material if it isn't up to my standards.
I *tried* to do what I could last September to help out GDP/M by
requesting a new subscription to the Almanac (i was mysteriously
dropped from the mailing list even tho i continually ordered) even
saying that i wanted to do my part to help by doing all my shopping
via the Almanac for Xmas. Well... I am STILL waitng for a copy of the
Almananc or even an email telling me that my order will be processed
soon.
David, I support Mom & Pop stores almost exclusively and I try to give
my hard-earned dollars to the people who deserve it most. Maybe I am
more upset with the way I feel I have been treated by GDP/M than the
new DP7, but it is my right.
I still feel that editing the shows (read Dick's Picks) is doing an
injustice to the millions of listeners who will come after these
generations.
Just my $.02
In peace and admiration,
Rick Scully
David Gans
Rick Scully wrote:
>
> I agree that some of the stuff should be left in the vault or to be
> circulated via traders, but i can't remember EVER fast forwarding thru
> such material on a tape. I love all the music. And as you said
> "sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice" BUT what about the
> generations of folks who will NEVER see a live show, and will have to
> get their impressions about the magic from CDs and tapes. I for one
> would be very disappointed if someone i was trading with decided that
> the Darkstar of a particular show wasn't up to their liking and
> therefore didn't make it to my tape. I don't want my children and so
> forth to be "forced" to listen to different versions of Skeletons in
> the Closet ad naseum under the name of Dick's Picks XXV.
Well, now, who in his right mind would leave a Dark Star out? I'm
talking about stuff
like the various cowboy medleys, which rarely transcend.
> >Indeed, it's the music that counts! I think it's kinda weird to state
> >that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
> >the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
> >idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
> >to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
> >complete show?
>
> Maybe i didn't make myself clear or you haven't seen my other posts.
> it was my understanding that Dick's "mission statement" was to release
> shows and to release them "as is" and that he would leave the
> fixing-it-in-the-mix to Phil.
I'm sure what Dick would like to do and what the collective wisdom of
GDP/GDM decide upon are somewhat at variance. There are many
sensibilities to satisfy in the path from vault to consumer; business
and esthetics are in constant dialog.
And I think Dick's understanding has evolved over time. He has learned
what we all have had to learn as we go along: what blows our mind as a
Deadhead must also be run past the more critical ears of the musicians
who played the music, and others whose point of view is a little less
purely psychedelic.
I get away with a lot on the radio that wouldn't pass muster with the
record-release people. I respect what they're doing, and they respect
what I'm doing.
> There have been plenty of rumor circulating around here and other
> online forums (IRC, etc) and one is that there is pressure to release
> "sexy" items (to use my old PR nomenclature) in order to sell more
> merchandise. And I understand that GDP and GDM need to make money in
> order to take care of the family, but that doesn't mean I have to buy
> that material if it isn't up to my standards.
Of course you don't have to buy it. But you're going to miss out on a
lot of great stuff if you insist on whole shows and nothing but whole
shows.
For example, Robert Hunter has lately displayed a tendency to badmouth
people in his own organization without regard for their feelings, and in
some cases without bothering to ascertain the truth of the matter.
Others with less connection to what's really going on have managed to
get some bad information out there, too. Still, there is undoubtedly
some truth to the various rumors. But I don't doubt the motives of the
people who are doing the work. They all love Grateful Dead music, and
each of us who loves Grateful Dead music feels fully qualified to argue
with what others make of it. 'Twas ever thus, and ever shall be!
> I *tried* to do what I could last September to help out GDP/M by
> requesting a new subscription to the Almanac (i was mysteriously
> dropped from the mailing list even tho i continually ordered) even
> saying that i wanted to do my part to help by doing all my shopping
> via the Almanac for Xmas. Well... I am STILL waitng for a copy of the
> Almananc or even an email telling me that my order will be processed
> soon.
>
> David, I support Mom & Pop stores almost exclusively and I try to give
> my hard-earned dollars to the people who deserve it most. Maybe I am
> more upset with the way I feel I have been treated by GDP/M than the
> new DP7, but it is my right.
GDM's failure to get you your Almanac is a minor database problem.
Seems rather unfair to indict the record company over it...
Murphy, Bob
|> >I think if they are going to release 3 CDs, I'd prefer to have three CD's
|> >worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
|> >jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
|> >It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
|> >agree with him.
|> I will just hope that Dick will return to the 1 show per release
|> format and will not buy DP7 but instead will persue getting those
|> shows in as HQ condition as I can in the best format I can.
David Gans (t...@well.com) wrote:
|In more than ten years of producing the Grateful Dead Hour, I have had
|this argument with myself and with various correspondents many times.
|I've listened to a lot of Grateful Dead music, complete shows and
|fragments. I have to choose what's appropriate for the Grateful Dead
|Hour. I think my threshold of keeperdom is lower than that of the
|people who choose stuff to be pressed into CDs and sold. I've heard
|plenty of shows that deserve to be heard in their entirety, but I've
|heard a lot more shows that did not. There is almost always a song or
|two that doesn't make it, for one reason or another. As I (and others)
|have stated repeatedly, perfection is not a core value in this musical
|domain, and sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice. But there is
|some stuff that doesn't dfeserve to be put on the air, and there is more
|stuff that doesn't deserve to be enshrined in a formal release.
|Indeed, it's the music that counts! I think it's kinda weird to state
|that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
|the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
|idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
|to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
|complete show?
I would agree with David that it is silly not to support the DP series
unless the entire show(s) is released. I collect shows on tape and usually
attempt to acquire the complete show. However, with many shows there might be
one set that is great, while the other is so-so. A true test is to look at all
the complete shows in your collection and ask yourself if there are some sets
you rarely / never listen to. An example from my collection would be 6-28-74.
The first set is good, but to be honest I only listen to it if I am dubbing a
copy, while the second set is a pleasure I treat myself to fairly often. If
Dick were considering the New England run (6-26, 6-28, & 6-30-74) I would
rather he choose the best sets from all of these shows rather than just one of
the shows in it's entirety. I love '74 shows, but I think it is unrealistic to
expect that they will all be released on CD. If I have the opportunity to pick
up the complete London run from '74 on tape I will probably do it. I will also
buy DP VII and enjoy the best of that run on CD. Enjoy the music! - Bob
--
Rick Scully
Before I start, let me say that my last post was going to be private
but i decided to risk the flames (which i can understand why they
happen on matters of opinion) and bring this discussion out in the
open. Especially since it is a helluva lot more poignant than the
AOL, .tiedrich and Deb Koons-Garcia bashing that is going on. :)
>Well, now, who in his right mind would leave a Dark Star out? I'm
>talking about stuff
>like the various cowboy medleys, which rarely transcend.
Dave, don't take each line literally. I may have exagerated, but the
point is there. I have received trade tapes where folks have taken the
liberty to cut Space or Drums. And one time someone who was sick of
SugMag decided to take it upon themselves to cut it. The point is who
decides? Dick? The band?
If the answer to that is the band, then fine. Let them release things
of which they are proud. I am not familiar with the review process
there. But it is still my understanding that Dick set out to release
whole shows and that he would leave the digital remastering to Phil.
if this understanding is incorrect, then I apologize that I was
misinformed and we can drop the whole subject.
But my point remains to be this.... We have to think about other
generations of DeadHeads (hopefully) who may only have access to the
CDs (doubtful for more recent shows because of DAT etc) of earlier era
shows, and in order to give them the true feel (or as close as we can)
for something they NEVER will experience EVER it is important to give
them the bad with the good. It is said that there is no good without
evil.
>Of course you don't have to buy it. But you're going to miss out on a
>lot of great stuff if you insist on whole shows and nothing but whole
>shows.
IMHO, the folks who will buy the CD will be missing out. According to
Jim Powell (in his part of 'Tapes in Circulation') all 3 of the shows
are in circulation to some extent. I will take my chances with what
is available.
<snip>
London 9/9/74: 145 SBD: The complete show circulates in SBD.
#London 9/10/74: 135 AUD: The very good AUD tape circulating contains
Peggy O (with the beginning missing), Black-Throated Wind, China Cat <
Rider, Weather Report Suite < Stella Blue; Seastones; & the 2nd set
complete except for Ramble On Rose and a cut in the 23:14 Dark Star.
London 9/11/74: 250 AUD: The complete show including Seastones is
assembled from 2 AUD masters, the 1st excellent & the 2nd very good;
the better master supplies everything except the 1st set & Wharf Rat.
</snip> <--- an new HTML tag? :)
I hate to quote a television commercial, but it was on when i first
posted on this subject...
"if we settle for good enough, will things ever be good enough?"
Thanks for the discussion, brother.
In peace,
scully
bill
Rick Scully wrote:
> > David Gans wrote:
> >
> >In more than ten years of producing the Grateful Dead Hour, I have
> >had
> >this argument with myself and with various correspondents many times.
>
> any of this argument. I think of it as healthy discussion.
>
> >fragments. I have to choose what's appropriate for the Grateful Dead
> >Hour. I think my threshold of keeperdom is lower than that of the
> >people who choose stuff to be pressed into CDs and sold. I've heard
> >plenty of shows that deserve to be heard in their entirety, but I've
> >heard a lot more shows that did not. There is almost always a song or
> >two that doesn't make it, for one reason or another. As I (and others)
> >have stated repeatedly, perfection is not a core value in this musical
> >domain, and sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice. But there is
> >some stuff that doesn't dfeserve to be put on the air, and there is more
> >stuff that doesn't deserve to be enshrined in a formal release.
>
> circulated via traders, but i can't remember EVER fast forwarding thru
> such material on a tape. I love all the music.
But surely you admit you don't like it all the same. Why when there is
a limited amount of music from a DP that is to released onto CD would
you not put the best music you could on it? In this case, the DP is
from the 3 day run in London in '74. You have two choices, just release
one of the three shows or pick the best that fit onto 3 CDs from all 3
shows. Having the release be an entire show and leaving out stuff from
the other two shows means you will not be getting the best songs of the
3 day run. Instead Dick will be forced to include songs that don't
compare in quality to songs from the 2 other days just to get the whole
show. If the music was unlimited, I think it would be nice to have the
whole show but it's not. You get a total of 3 CDs. Why include
clunkers when instead it can be 3 CDs of incredible jams? Seems like an
easy question to me.
> And as you said
> "sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice" BUT what about the
> generations of folks who will NEVER see a live show, and will have to
> get their impressions about the magic from CDs and tapes.
If they are only getting their impressions from live tapes and CDs, why
not give them the best there is from that run instead of trying to be a
perfectionist and say that every fart and every muffled sound that any
of the band members did at the show must be part of the 3 CDs?
> I for one
> would be very disappointed if someone i was trading with decided that
> the Darkstar of a particular show wasn't up to their liking and
> therefore didn't make it to my tape. I don't want my children and so
> forth to be "forced" to listen to different versions of Skeletons in
> the Closet ad naseum under the name of Dick's Picks XXV.
The whole point of releasing stuff from all 3 days is so that the
magical stuff is not missed (as much as possible). If something is
asskicking, you can trust Dick aint gonna miss it. As much as I love
'74 tapes, what I really love them for are the long second set jams and
I think lots of folks would agree with me. This is where '74 shows are
superior to later shows. But I think the first set songs of '74 shows
were done better in later years. The jams were better and longer for
those first set songs (in general IMHO) in later years with better sound
systems. Instead of getting average versions of first set songs on the
CDs, why not have the CDs be made up of what was the best stuff?
Because as I said above, the amount of music is limited to 3 CDs. Even
3 CDs is probably not enough to capture all the magical jamming songs
(the Dews, Darkstars, China/riders, Playins, etc.) from those 3 shows.
By insisting the 3 CDs include average versions Me & My Uncle, Ship of
Fools, etc., that will mean even more incredible jams will have to be
skipped over.
>
> >Indeed, it's the music that counts! I think it's kinda weird to state
> >that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
> >the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
> >idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
> >to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
> >complete show?
>
> Maybe i didn't make myself clear or you haven't seen my other posts.
> it was my understanding that Dick's "mission statement" was to release
> shows and to release them "as is" and that he would leave the
> fixing-it-in-the-mix to Phil.
Where is it written that Dick is limited to this? I think Dick's goal
is to get as much low circulation high sound quality great music out
there as much as possible. I think he's doing a wonderful job!
> There have been plenty of rumor circulating around here and other
> online forums (IRC, etc) and one is that there is pressure to release
> "sexy" items (to use my old PR nomenclature) in order to sell more
> merchandise. And I understand that GDP and GDM need to make money in
> order to take care of the family, but that doesn't mean I have to buy
> that material if it isn't up to my standards.
The internet is great for rumor mongering and spreading lots of
bullshit. I don't think you should be implying the folks working on
this stuff are doing it for monetary reasons and not because they love
the music and want folks to get some incredible stuff on CDs. I don't
think they need the money as the income from these releases are, at the
end of the day, pretty insignificant. It's bad karma and if there's one
organization that doesn't deserve bad karma, it's this one.
>
> I *tried* to do what I could last September to help out GDP/M by
> requesting a new subscription to the Almanac (i was mysteriously
> dropped from the mailing list even tho i continually ordered) even
> saying that i wanted to do my part to help by doing all my shopping
> via the Almanac for Xmas. Well... I am STILL waitng for a copy of the
> Almananc or even an email telling me that my order will be processed
> soon.
I don't think there's any grand conspiracy on the part of those putting
out the Almanac to not get you a copy. People are doing different
things now and priorities change and fuckups occur. Put a smile on your
face and be glad this wonderful organization didn't completely fold up
it's tent on 8-9-95 and never release anything after that. We are
extremely lucky to have material still being released. We are extremely
lucky that the Dead and all those associated with it are the fine people
they are that realize we have a hunger for this stuff and that the will
do their best to satisfy it.
> David, I support Mom & Pop stores almost exclusively and I try to give
> my hard-earned dollars to the people who deserve it most. Maybe I am
> more upset with the way I feel I have been treated by GDP/M than the
> new DP7, but it is my right.
Sure it's your right but assuming you love GD music, you don't know how
great you have it. Getting three CDs of wonderful magical uplifting
awe-inspiring music is not anything to be upset about.
> I still feel that editing the shows (read Dick's Picks) is doing an
> injustice to the millions of listeners who will come after these
> generations.
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion but I disagree with you
for the reasons I stated above and I will restate here: why, when the
amount of music to be released is limited to 3 (or x) CDs, should Dick
not release the best music he can? Why keep the gems in the vault to
satisfy some people's hang up with having every note (however flawed),
every fart, every burp, every utterance produced by the bandmembers that
night?
Thank God for the institution known as THE GRATEFUL DEAD.
Bill
bOZE
David Gans wrote:
>
> > >I think if they are going to release 3 CDs, I'd prefer to have three CD's
> > >worth of kickass jams rather than have only 1 or 2 CD's worth of kickass
> > >jams and get the whole show. So what if it isn't all from the same show.
> > >It's the music that counts. I think this is what Dick was thinking and I
> > >agree with him.
>
> > I will just hope that Dick will return to the 1 show per release
> > format and will not buy DP7 but instead will persue getting those
> > shows in as HQ condition as I can in the best format I can.
>
> this argument with myself and with various correspondents many times.
>
> fragments. I have to choose what's appropriate for the Grateful Dead
> Hour. I think my threshold of keeperdom is lower than that of the
> people who choose stuff to be pressed into CDs and sold. I've heard
> plenty of shows that deserve to be heard in their entirety, but I've
> heard a lot more shows that did not. There is almost always a song or
> two that doesn't make it, for one reason or another. As I (and others)
> have stated repeatedly, perfection is not a core value in this musical
> domain, and sloppiness in pursuit of magic is no vice. But there is
> some stuff that doesn't dfeserve to be put on the air, and there is more
> stuff that doesn't deserve to be enshrined in a formal release.
>
> that you will refuse to buy a Dick's Picks release if it doesn't include
> the entire show. Is your appreciation of Grateful Dead music so
> idiosyncratic and specialized that you cannot bring yourself to listen
> to a particular song or jam if it isn't presented in the context of a
> complete show?
>
> David Gans t...@well.com
> Truth and Fun, Inc., 484 Lake Park Ave #102, Oakland CA 94610
> http://www.well.com/user/tnf/ AOL keyword = gdhour
No matter what Dicks Picks's 7 is, I know I'll be jammin.:)
CEgger32
fuck everyone,
we are part of a special community. why bitch about what dick gives to
us. fans of other groups never get half the amount of live music we get.
neverless the quality we get. other groups don't allow taping and release
only fixed in the mix live albums. never whole shows. so you must resort
to bootleg cds and tapes of concerts taped from someones jackets (so
security won't hassle). be happy with what we get. you people complain
too much about things that are out of your control.
I love dick for what he is doing. taking time to release the best of what
he hears. i must admit i was not happy with DPVI. but you don't hear me
bitching about it. i just look at the live options i have for the other
groups i like. it ain't much. then i look at my dead live options and
smile. god i am lucky to be able to listen to this music. and be able to
compare one version of a song to another. or one show to another. i
never critisize someone for making music available to me and either should
anyone else. if you don't like it, don't buy it. real simple.
CEgg...@aol.com_______/\ ________
\/
Steallight
I will buy the newest DP for the same reason I buy the others. Good
music, Mr. Latvala has an excellent ear. And this is the ultimate source
of high quality Grateful Dead Music.
If we buy them, they'll keep releasing them
Happily dancing in the Phil Zone and scattering Garcia Ashes!
David Gans
Rick Scully wrote:
>
> >Well, now, who in his right mind would leave a Dark Star out? I'm
> >talking about stuff
> >like the various cowboy medleys, which rarely transcend.
>
> Dave, don't take each line literally. I may have exagerated, but the
> point is there. I have received trade tapes where folks have taken the
> liberty to cut Space or Drums. And one time someone who was sick of
> SugMag decided to take it upon themselves to cut it. The point is who
> decides? Dick? The band?
As I understand it, the decision is made by Dick with Jeffrey Norman and
John Cutler,
and there are others (Phil Lesh, probably Peter McQuaid at GDM) who sign
off on the
final decision.
But I guarantee you it's not based on anything like "sick of Sugar
Magnolia." C'mon!
You ask me not to take your remarks too literally, but your examples
seem deliberately
exaggerated.
N.B. I am not entirely in favor of editing shows. I think there are
plenty of shows
on tape that deserve to be released in their entirety. But there are
also plenty of
tapes that benefit from abridgement. I make that decision every week in
the course
of my work, and believe me, I make my choices based on the quality of
the performance
I'm evaluating, not on whether I'm tired of Sugar Magnolia.
> If the answer to that is the band, then fine. Let them release things
> of which they are proud. I am not familiar with the review process
> there. But it is still my understanding that Dick set out to release
> whole shows and that he would leave the digital remastering to Phil.
> if this understanding is incorrect, then I apologize that I was
> misinformed and we can drop the whole subject.
I think the definitions have evolved over the years. Dick has certainly
learned
a lot since he started choosing stuff for release. Healy, Cutler, Lesh
and others
are an education on many levels, believe me!
> But my point remains to be this.... We have to think about other
> generations of DeadHeads (hopefully) who may only have access to the
> CDs (doubtful for more recent shows because of DAT etc) of earlier era
> shows, and in order to give them the true feel (or as close as we can)
> for something they NEVER will experience EVER it is important to give
> them the bad with the good. It is said that there is no good without
> evil.
There will be complete shows, and there will be abridged shows. And
regardless
of what comes out on Grateful Dead Records, there will be zillions of
tapes of
complete shows for all those future generations of Deadheads.
David Gans
bill wrote:
>
> The internet is great for rumor mongering and spreading lots of
> bullshit. I don't think you should be implying the folks working on
> this stuff are doing it for monetary reasons and not because they love
> the music and want folks to get some incredible stuff on CDs. I don't
> think they need the money as the income from these releases are, at the
> end of the day, pretty insignificant. It's bad karma and if there's one
> organization that doesn't deserve bad karma, it's this one.
Oh, I don't know about that. I've seen plenty of bad karma emanating
from within
the Grateful Dead organization. There are ruthless and stupid people in
among the
saints and bodhisattvas - trust me on this.
I think the GD organization does "need" the money from these releases.
With no
Grateful Dead on the road, this is their principal source of income.
That doesn't mean they're shoveling crap out the door indiscriminately.
It's
a very serious matter, balancing the need to put stuff out with the
desire to
present only the best. These are imperfect people, just like you and
me, and
the various players rank the various priorities differently.
Ultimately, the
goal is to serve the music. And I think the people responsible for the
decision
are doing their very best to serve the music.
ro...@mhv.net
Question----- would future generations not get the magic of Live Dead or
Europe 72 because they are not complete shows. Being one who to this day
thinks live dead is as good as any show i have on tape do not think so.
Christian Crumlish
Good point. There's also a difference between the band/organization's
officially released "product" and the documentary source material
circulated by traders. It's their job to control their official
output and image. It's our job to preserve everything we deem worth
preserving.
--xian
--
xian =%7o http://www.pobox.com/~xian
Enterzone http://ezone.org/ez
SYXdotcom http://www.syx.com
American Arts and http://aaln.org
Letters Network
David Gans
Christian Crumlish wrote:
>
> There's also a difference between the band/organization's
> officially released "product" and the documentary source material
> circulated by traders. It's their job to control their official
> output and image. It's our job to preserve everything we deem worth
> preserving.
Well said!
The more I think about my conversation with Rick Scully yesterday, the
more I think he is absolutely right to vote with his pocketbook. If the
Dead put out abridged performances and people don't buy 'em, they'll
either give up the vault releases or adjust them to suit the wishes of
the market.
Scully
I want to thank everyone for their well-spoken comments and heart-felt
feelings. I haven't checked my email from the account i posted all
this from so I hope that anything that ends up there is as coherent
and peaceful as 99% of you all have :)
I just wanted to say that all the points were valid and that I have
CHANGED MY MIND :)))), but (yes, a butt) here is the main reason. And
it was this post from Stealight who said....
If we buy them, they'll keep releasing them
And it comes down to that. I may have been missinformed when i read
(from acouple of sources) that Dick planned to release stuff 'as is'
without digital remixing and manipulation. And I was glad to hear
that for the reasons I have stated before. And I have bought all the
releases to date from both Dick AND Phil, and even bought the entire
DP package (1-6) for a good friend who had very little live Dead
music.
Thanks again for the debate, and especially to David. I do wish a
live forum (except on AOL and that's a whole new can o' worms:) with
Dick could be establih so we could delve into his mind and query him,
but in the meantime I am going to spin some tapes and enjoy my
birthday!
BTW, I am still looking to find copies of 2-16-82 and 2-16-88 which
where the only 2 times the boys played on my b-day.
Peace all,
scully
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"Some folks up in treetops, just looking for their kites"
The Sunshine Kid
hus...@routledge.com (Derrick Hussey) wrote:
I thought she was more of a hot 69 kinda lady.
Did I ever tell you about my 95 year old grandpa? He raped a woman and got
arrested for assault with a dead weapon.
The deadly, Sunshine Kid
George Theodoris
I like the approach that Dick is taking on the latest DP.
I would rather have the highlights of the run than just one concert.
Having said that, I have to admit I was very dissapointed to hear that
"Eyes of the world" wont be on the CD. I have not heard this particular
Eyes, but the best Eyes I have heard are from 74. I can't believe that this
Eyes isn't better than the one on DP6 or DP3, but maybe its not.
I think that we have to respect the choices that Dick makes even if they
are not the choices that we would make. He has a very difficult job.
No mater what he chooses Deadheads(myself included) will find something
to complain about. I think the complaining is not an entirely bad thing
because it expresses what people are feeling, and these are the people
that will, after all buy the CDs. I have faith that DP7 will be among the
best of the DP since 1974 was one of the best years for Dead concerts.
And I will continue buying the DPs, even if I am not 100% happy with them.
-george