7th RFD: comp.games.development.* hierarchy
Brandon Van Every
REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
unmoderated group comp.games.development.art
unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio
unmoderated group comp.games.development.design
unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)
This is a formal Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of
world-wide unmoderated Usenet newsgroups comp.games.development.*.
This is not a Call for Votes (CFV); you cannot vote at this time.
Procedural details are below.
CHANGES from previous RFD:
Reinstated *.development.* prefix.
Renamed *.music to *.audio. Rewrote the charter for *.audio to be
evenly balanced between creative and technical concerns, and to
include specific mention of speech synthesis, sound effects, and
real-time sound synthesis. Changed newsgroup line. Rephrased
rationale, added a paragraph about the Computer Games Developer
Conference's audio offerings.
Clarified in comp.games.development.design RATIONALE that
rec.games.design is not being changed or even addressed by this
proposal in any way whatsoever. More than one Usenet poster was
confused on this point.
No other changes. Other than changing *.music to *.audio, nobody
had any serious issues. Apparently all major problems with this
proposal have been solved, as discussion has almost completely died.
The 1st version of this RFD was posted on May 5th, 1998. This is the
7th version and was submitted for posting on June 11, 1998. A request
for a Call For Votes (CFV) will be submitted 10 days hence. Voting
will follow soon after.
Newsgroup lines:
comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for.
comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming.
RATIONALE: all groups
The venerable newsgroup rec.games.programmer is given to heavy
volume in excess of 200 posts per day. Informal proposals for a
rec.games.programmer.moderated newsgroup have failed because nobody
wants to moderate such a volume of posts. It is hoped that the new
hierarchy will constructively diffuse the energy of eager posters, and
that the rationale for the hierarchy will diminish cross-posting.
Rec.games.programmer is also, clearly, in the wrong place. It was
instituted in the hey-day of the back-bedroom programmer when *all*
aspects of games development were handled by one or two people at
most. It was placed under the "rec.*" banner mainly because most
programmers in the 1980s were hobbyists -- the 'professional' games
programmer was a very rare occurrence back then.
Today, the industry has grown up, and specialisation rules supreme.
Programmers no longer draw the graphics. Nor do programmers create
music or sound effects. Thus we need new, clearly related newsgroups
that can cope with the modern division of labour. And the only way to
avoid tortured names like "rec.games.programmer.art" is to
rectify the mistake that placed r.g.p in its present hierarchy.
In the future, we anticipate that non-development games newsgroups
may be merged into comp.games.*. We use the prefix *.development.* to
distinguish the development-oriented newsgroups. The abbreviation
*.dev.* was rejected by Usenet admins on the grounds that it's an
abbreviation, and the precedent in other groups is to spell out the
full word "development." *.maker.* was suggested, but it is not as
strong a bulwark against non-developmental posts as *.development.*.
Having 2 separate *.development.* and *.programming.* hierarchies was
suggested, but when Usenet admins activate or filter a related set of
newsgroups, they prefer to control related groups with only 1 wildcard
charcter. Also *.design needs to be at the same hierarchical level as
*.programming, to reinforce the fact that *.design is not a
programming newsgroup.
For example, a future hierarchy might look like the following.
[THIS IS NOT A PROPOSAL AT THE PRESENT TIME!]
comp.games.action
comp.games.adventure
comp.games.flight-sim
comp.games.development.art
comp.games.development.audio
comp.games.development.design
comp.games.development.industry
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
comp.games.development.programming.misc
comp.games.marketplace
comp.games.misc
comp.games.naval
comp.games.rpg
comp.games.sports
comp.games.strategic
comp.games.war-historical
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
Programmers are only half of what make a games project come together,
artists are the other half. Artists are often put off by "boring"
discussions of langauges and compiler speeds, this is a forum for
creativity in games development. rec.games.art was not chosen because
the focus is on computer and console games development, whereas
hierarchically rec.games.art would also imply board games, card games,
miniatures, etc.
Admittedly, *.art has not previously been discussed much in r.g.p.
However, it is extensively discussed at Gamasutra, a commercial and
quite popular website that discusses the art and science of games
development. The structure of comp.games.development.* is in fact
meant to duplicate the major elements of the highly successful
Gamasutra model. Gamasutra has basically re-invented the concept of
newsgroups using a clumsy web interface for reading and replying to
posts, and many of us would rather use Usenet. Please refer to
http://www.gamasutra.com for evidence that *.art traffic will in fact
occur.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
For discussion of visual aesthetics and techniques in computer
and console games development. The primary focus is upon the creative
aspects of game artistry, although discussion of tools and technical
issues is condoned. Please try to keep discussion relevant to art,
and try not to turn it into a bunch of programming mumbo jumbo.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
A handful of game musicians/composers have informed me that they feel
they are often forgotten in games production. Furthermore, the
Computer Game Developers Conference hosts a well-attended and
successful Audio Track every year, alongside their other tracks
covering Programming, Visual Arts, Production, Business and Legal, and
Game Design. Since *.audio is a logical grouping of tasks essential
to games production, it seems reasonable to give the audio people a
group of their own.
Will the group get enough traffic? Despite the existence of other
*.music, *.sound, and *.audio newsgroups in the Usenet hierarchy,
rec.games.programmer is known to carry a reasonably significant volume
of audio-related traffic. To quantify the audio traffic, I searched
DejaNews for the keywords "music OR sound OR audio" for the past year.
To see if traffic is sporadic, I searched each month individually. An
average over the entire year would cover up peaks and lows in traffic.
Each month was searched from the 1st to the 31st, to cover the varying
lengths of all months. The results are:
month articles
------------------------
Jun97 267
Jul97 324
Aug97 291
Sep97 296
Oct97 262
Nov97 248
Dec97 305
Jan98 391
Feb98 376
Mar98 395
Apr98 1700
May98 6000
So, rec.games.programmer has been averaging 8..12 audio articles per
day, with a massive increase in audio topics in April..May 1998.
This is sufficient evidence that comp.games.development.audio will get
traffic.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
For the discussion of music, sound, sound effects, noise, speech
synthesis, and real-time audio synthesis as applied to games
production. This includes aesthetic, compositional, engineering, and
programming issues as they arise in real-world commercial games
production. Please keep conversation focused on games, and please be
aware that other music newsgroups exist for non-games discussion.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
There is already a newsgroup called "rec.games.design" which covers
*all* games, not just those that run on computers. I.e.: discussions
of board games, chess, Go, role-play games, etc. are perfectly
legitimate. It is not specifically aimed at computer games design,
yet it is currently being swamped by such discussions. Unfortunately,
this invasion of the computer games designers gives newbies the
impression that *any* aspect of computer games can be discussed in
r.g.d. -- witness the current threads asking about "Compile
errors in Visual C++...". ANd other non-design-related posts abound,
such as the technical details of isometric graphics, the salary
of musicians in the games industry, etc.
This is a mess that must be cleared up, if only to prevent the
outbreak of war. There are even discussions in r.g.d about the
feasibility of creating a separate "rec.games.design.board" newsgroup.
This is a sad state of affairs.
By moving the computer-games-specific posts to a dedicated home, we
can kill two birds with one stone.
NOTE: this proposal has NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on the name or charter
of rec.games.design. comp.games.development.design is being created
as a completely separate group, we are not proposing a rename or any
change whatsoever to rec.games.design.
However, it is expected that in practice, most of the computer games
design traffic will be diverted to comp.games.development.design. As
outlined above, this is viewed by many as A Good Thing (tm). Still,
some people worry that this will "harm" rec.games.design, or more
particularly, that it's against the best interests of computer game
designers. A number of non-computer game designers feel that computer
games are essentially similar to non-computer games, and that computer
game designers would do well to pay more attention to their
non-computer counterparts. However, the computer game designers
mostly feel that their chosen medium has unique properties worthy of
special attention. In any event, there is nothing stopping people
from subscribing to both comp.games.development.design and
rec.games.design if they want to hear both perspectives.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
Why is a given computer/console game fun to play? Why are some games
great, and others suck? These perplexing and intangible questions are
the essence of game design. In this newsgroup we attempt to answer
these questions, believing that a great game is more than the
sum of its artistic, technical, and business components. This group
is solely for the discussion of GAME design. Programming, marketing,
artwork, and audio all have their own design criteria, but none of
these result in a good game in and of themselves, and they should not
be discussed here. Game design is focused upon the rules systems of
games and the "play value" of games, i.e. how fun it is to play, and
how long the fun will last. Tools that assist in the game design
process (design documents, storyboarding, physical prototypes, even
pencil-and-paper) may be discussed, but this group is NOT for
discussion of programming, art, and/or audio tools in general. Please
take such discussion to the relevant groups.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
Recently, serious discussions of game project management have been
among the most civil and widely praised of rec.games.programmer's
offerings. Programmers often pay too much attention to the
technologies they develop, and not enough to the business environment
in which they create them. Control over the strategy of a project
can make or break a programmer's career, so timely discussion of
business issues is a service to the game programming community.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
For discussion of business news and trends in the games industry.
Game project management, the marketing and financing of game projects,
and the impact of business strategies on the success/failure of game
products are all topical. This is the preferred group
for job offers, discussions of salary/compensation/royalties, the
importance of getting a C.S. degree, breaking into the industry, and
so forth. Full text of conference announcements is encouraged.
Full text of game product announcements is discouraged; instead, give
an EXCEEDINGLY BRIEF (4 lines of text) pointer to a web page about
the product. *.industry is not for *.advocacy discussion of games
products, and that's what full-text announcements tend to generate.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
r.g.p is full of questions about how to implement 2D scrollers, 3D
matrix transforms, scripting languages, and AI path finders, despite
the fact that many other Usenet newsgroups exist to discuss these
topics. We can't stop people from posting these questions, they need
a group. *.algorithms is general-purpose enough that we needn't
worry about duplicating the rest of the Usenet hierarchy. Whereas if
we handled each algorithmic concern on a case-by-case basis, i.e.
*.3d, *.2d, *.scripting, *.ai, we'd have an explosion of duplicate
groups. (That said, if if *.algorithms ever carries enough traffic
to warrant subgroups, we can worry about it later.)
Also, r.g.p is full of advocacy posts about operating systems,
compilers, and APIs. These things are NOT algorithms. We make the
*.algorithms newsgroup so that the OS/language/API advocates will
hopefully leave us alone. In the event that they do not, we will
either beat them about the head with the charter, or propose a
moderated newsgroup at some point in the future.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
For the discussion of computational algorithms used in games
development, including but not limited to 2D display, 3D display,
sorting, numerical optimization, parsing, and AI approaches.
"Algorithms" in the computer science sense of the term are generally
regarded as being independent of underlying hardware implementation.
However, in the real world algorithms must always be optimized, and
optimization is always hardware-specific. Therefore, discussion of
hardware-specific optimization techniques is condoned. Please use
judgement as to whether a discussion belongs in *.algorithms.
Operating systems, APIs, languages, and compilers are NOT algorithms.
Posts about "which 3D API is better," or "which language/compiler/OS
should I use" are off-topic, post them elsewhere.
END CHARTER.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
A number of folks don't want to see rec.games.programmer changed
at all. And aside from *.algorithms, people can't agree on a
breakdown of *.programming topics. Rather than try to solve these
issues now, we molest rec.games.programmer as little as possible,
and simply rename it to comp.games.development.programming.misc. This is a
compromise that will hopefully make the most people happy, and that
still allows us room to solve any problems later.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
For the technical discussion of operating systems, platforms,
consoles, languages, libraries, and other programming methodologies
used in games development. Discussion upon any games programming
topic is condoned. Please take non-programming topics to other
groups.
END CHARTER.
PROCEDURE:
This is a request for discussion, not a call for votes. In this phase
of the process, any potential problems with the proposed newsgroups
should be raised and resolved. The discussion period will continue
for a minimum of 21 days (starting from when the first RFD for this
proposal is posted to news.announce.newgroups), after which a Call For
Votes (CFV) may be posted by a neutral vote taker if the discussion
warrants it. Please do not attempt to vote until this happens.
All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.
This RFD attempts to comply fully with the Usenet newsgroup creation
guidelines outlined in "How to Create a New Usenet Newsgroup" and "How
to Format and Submit a New Group Proposal". Please refer to these
documents (available in news.announce.newgroups) if you have any
questions about the process.
DISTRIBUTION:
This RFD has been posted to the following newsgroups:
news.announce.newgroups,news.groups,rec.games.programmer,rec.games.design,co
mp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.misc,comp.ai.games,comp.sys.ibm.pc.sound
card.music,rec.music.makers
Proponent: Brandon Van Every <vane...@blarg.net>
Raymond Bingham
I uncovered clues pointing to Brandon Van Every (vane...@blarg.net) having written:
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.art
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.design
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)
THis is a very fine new hierarchy. I am anxious to vote YES for it.
I think this will greatly enhance the value of Usenet, and provide a
good number of new havens for those of us on the fringe (like us game
artists... :-) Thanks for all the grand work,
Best regards,
--
************************************************************************
* Raymond Bingham (aka. wReam...) * "The meek shall inherit the earth, *
*********************************** and the bank shall reposess it." *
* 100 % PURE Unabashed Opinion ***************** -- Sawyer Brown ***
*********************************** (from Cafe on the Corner)
Matt Craighead
[snip]
I will vote yes on all as is.
--
Matt Craighead
Engineer, Window Painters, Ltd.
http://www.windowpainters.com
Sean Timarco Baggaley
Brandon Van Every wrote in message <8978774...@isc.org>...
> REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.art
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.design
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames
rec.games.programmer)
[...]
>Newsgroup lines:
>comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
Yep.
>comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
Yep.
>comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
Yep.
>comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
Yep. (I think I'm seeing a pattern here...)
>comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for.
Yep.
>comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming.
Yep.
Gosh. That was a short post. (For me, anyway.)
--
Sean Timarco Baggaley
"See? That didn't hurt now, did it?"
E&OE
Neil Crellin
FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
unmoderated group comp.games.development.art
unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio
unmoderated group comp.games.development.design
unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)
This CFV is to be distributed only by the votetaker. It is not to be
posted to newsgroups, or mailed to mailing lists or individuals, except by
the votetaker. Ballots or CFVs provided by anyone else will be invalid.
Note on spamblocked addresses: The votetaker for this vote requires a valid
return address in order for your vote to be acknowledged and recorded. Easily
demunged addresses may be accepted at the votetakers discretion, but it is
the voters responsibility to ensure they recieve their vote acknowledgement
to know their vote has been recorded.
Newsgroups lines:
comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for games.
comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming games.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Jul 1998.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
about the proposed group should be directed to the proponent.
Proponent: Brandon Van Every <vane...@blarg.net>
Votetaker: Neil Crellin <ne...@stanford.edu>
RATIONALE: all groups
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
Recently, serious discussions of game project management have been
among the most civil and widely praised of rec.games.programmer's
offerings. Programmers often pay too much attention to the
technologies they develop, and not enough to the business environment
in which they create them. Control over the strategy of a project
can make or break a programmer's career, so timely discussion of
business issues is a service to the game programming community.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
r.g.p is full of questions about how to implement 2D scrollers, 3D
matrix transforms, scripting languages, and AI path finders, despite
the fact that many other Usenet newsgroups exist to discuss these
topics. We can't stop people from posting these questions, they need
a group. *.algorithms is general-purpose enough that we needn't
worry about duplicating the rest of the Usenet hierarchy. Whereas if
we handled each algorithmic concern on a case-by-case basis, i.e.
*.3d, *.2d, *.scripting, *.ai, we'd have an explosion of duplicate
groups. (That said, if if *.algorithms ever carries enough traffic
to warrant subgroups, we can worry about it later.)
Also, r.g.p is full of advocacy posts about operating systems,
compilers, and APIs. These things are NOT algorithms. We make the
*.algorithms newsgroup so that the OS/language/API advocates will
hopefully leave us alone. In the event that they do not, we will
either beat them about the head with the charter, or propose a
moderated newsgroup at some point in the future.
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
A number of folks don't want to see rec.games.programmer changed
at all. And aside from *.algorithms, people can't agree on a
breakdown of *.programming topics. Rather than try to solve these
issues now, we molest rec.games.programmer as little as possible,
and simply rename it to comp.games.development.programming.misc. This is a
compromise that will hopefully make the most people happy, and that
still allows us room to solve any problems later.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
For discussion of visual aesthetics and techniques in computer
and console games development. The primary focus is upon the creative
aspects of game artistry, although discussion of tools and technical
issues is condoned. Please try to keep discussion relevant to art,
and try not to turn it into a bunch of programming mumbo jumbo.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
For the discussion of music, sound, sound effects, noise, speech
synthesis, and real-time audio synthesis as applied to games
production. This includes aesthetic, compositional, engineering, and
programming issues as they arise in real-world commercial games
production. Please keep conversation focused on games, and please be
aware that other music newsgroups exist for non-games discussion.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
Why is a given computer/console game fun to play? Why are some games
great, and others suck? These perplexing and intangible questions are
the essence of game design. In this newsgroup we attempt to answer
these questions, believing that a great game is more than the
sum of its artistic, technical, and business components. This group
is solely for the discussion of GAME design. Programming, marketing,
artwork, and audio all have their own design criteria, but none of
these result in a good game in and of themselves, and they should not
be discussed here. Game design is focused upon the rules systems of
games and the "play value" of games, i.e. how fun it is to play, and
how long the fun will last. Tools that assist in the game design
process (design documents, storyboarding, physical prototypes, even
pencil-and-paper) may be discussed, but this group is NOT for
discussion of programming, art, and/or audio tools in general. Please
take such discussion to the relevant groups.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
For discussion of business news and trends in the games industry.
Game project management, the marketing and financing of game projects,
and the impact of business strategies on the success/failure of game
products are all topical. This is the preferred group
for job offers, discussions of salary/compensation/royalties, the
importance of getting a C.S. degree, breaking into the industry, and
so forth. Full text of conference announcements is encouraged.
Full text of game product announcements is discouraged; instead, give
an EXCEEDINGLY BRIEF (4 lines of text) pointer to a web page about
the product. *.industry is not for *.advocacy discussion of games
products, and that's what full-text announcements tend to generate.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
For the discussion of computational algorithms used in games
development, including but not limited to 2D display, 3D display,
sorting, numerical optimization, parsing, and AI approaches.
"Algorithms" in the computer science sense of the term are generally
regarded as being independent of underlying hardware implementation.
However, in the real world algorithms must always be optimized, and
optimization is always hardware-specific. Therefore, discussion of
hardware-specific optimization techniques is condoned. Please use
judgement as to whether a discussion belongs in *.algorithms.
Operating systems, APIs, languages, and compilers are NOT algorithms.
Posts about "which 3D API is better," or "which language/compiler/OS
should I use" are off-topic, post them elsewhere.
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
For the technical discussion of operating systems, platforms,
consoles, languages, libraries, and other programming methodologies
used in games development. Discussion upon any games programming
topic is condoned. Please take non-programming topics to other
groups.
END CHARTER.
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======== BEGINNING OF BALLOT: Delete everything before this line =======
.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| 1ST CALL FOR VOTES: comp.games.development.* hierarchy
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <CGDH-0001> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
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Voter name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] comp.games.development.art
[ ] comp.games.development.audio
[ ] comp.games.development.design
[ ] comp.games.development.industry
[ ] comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
[ ] comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
This CFV was created with uvpq 1.0 (Aug 14 1997).
PQ datestamp: 980322
--
Voting address: vot...@uvv.stanford.edu
Sean T Barrett
I assume that most of this call for votes
is boilerplate. So why, pray tell, does it
explain exactly what is being voted on (i.e.
via charters and rationales), and give beautifully
explicit descriptions of how to fill in the vote form,
and yet not explain what the votes mean?
In article <8988108...@isc.org>,
Neil Crellin <vot...@uvv.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
>
> [ YES ] example.yes.vote
> [ NO ] example.no.vote
> [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
> [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
[snip]
>| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
>| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
>
>Your Vote Newsgroup
>--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
>[ ] blah.blah.blah
I take it, although it is NEVER said anywhere that
I can see, that "YES" means "YES I favor this newsgroup
being created", and "NO" means "NO I favor this newsgroup
not being created" (even though there is never anywhere
listed an actual yes/no question). [Yes, this seems
fairly obvious, but this isn't really my point, but the
fact it's not called out explicitly seems a tad odd.]
"ABSTAIN" is also fairly obvious. But "CANCEL"? Am I
voting for a newsgroup in which all posts are automatically
cancelled? Am I voting to cancel the CFV for this group?
I assume this is standard terminology somewhere, but for such
a careful-to-not-require-reference-to-any-external-material
document, this sure falls down in this regards.
Sean
and isn't "example.yes.vote" and the rest of those an
incredibly pointless piece of text, not at all helping
to explain the meaning since they simply contain redundant
verbiage--much like infamous comments of the form
'move 0 into register 3'? How about:
[ YES ] example.group.you.want
[ NO ] example.group.you.don't.want
[ ABSTAIN ] example.group.you.don't.care.one.way.or.the.other
[ CANCEL ] example.group.you.???
Daniel M. C. Lawson
In article <Ev7F0...@world.std.com>,
Sean T Barrett <buz...@world.std.com> wrote:
>I assume that most of this call for votes
>is boilerplate. So why, pray tell, does it
>explain exactly what is being voted on (i.e.
>via charters and rationales), and give beautifully
>explicit descriptions of how to fill in the vote form,
>and yet not explain what the votes mean?
[snip example from ballot]
>I take it, although it is NEVER said anywhere that
>I can see, that "YES" means "YES I favor this newsgroup
>being created", and "NO" means "NO I favor this newsgroup
>not being created" (even though there is never anywhere
>listed an actual yes/no question). [Yes, this seems
>fairly obvious, but this isn't really my point, but the
>fact it's not called out explicitly seems a tad odd.]
>
>"ABSTAIN" is also fairly obvious. But "CANCEL"? Am I
>voting for a newsgroup in which all posts are automatically
>cancelled? Am I voting to cancel the CFV for this group?
>
>I assume this is standard terminology somewhere, but for such
>a careful-to-not-require-reference-to-any-external-material
>document, this sure falls down in this regards.
I am NOT a member of the UVV, so please consider this a very unofficial
response. However, after reading news.groups for the past 2 1/2 years, I
will try to answer your question to the best of my ability.
CANCEL is used to cancel a previous vote and not have one's name displayed in
the final RESULT. For example, say one voted YES (or NO, or even ABSTAIN),
and then decided that one really didn't want to vote at all. One could then
send a CANCEL vote in to erase one's name from the list of people who voted
(and also one's vote, or course).
To change from one vote to another, one needs simply vote a second time; the
last vote received is the one counted.
Also, I've noticed that different votetakers use different boilerplate text
(and ballot formats sometimes, although the four votes seem to be the same).
Peace,
Dan Lawson
Neil Crellin
For each group listed on the ballot, you may indicate a vote of YES,
NO or ABSTAIN, indicating your interest in that groups
creation. Hopefully that is self-explanatory. A vote of CANCEL in any
line of the ballot will CANCEL any previously submitted and recorded
votes you may have cast and remove your name and email from being
listed in the RESULT posting. The vote ack explains this use of CANCEL
in more detail than the CFV, since it usually only arises in the case
of an attempt to revise your recorded vote.
-Neil Crellin
Usenet Volunteer Votetakers
buz...@world.std.com (Sean T Barrett) writes:
> I assume that most of this call for votes
> is boilerplate. So why, pray tell, does it
> explain exactly what is being voted on (i.e.
> via charters and rationales), and give beautifully
> explicit descriptions of how to fill in the vote form,
> and yet not explain what the votes mean?
>
> In article <8988108...@isc.org>,
> Neil Crellin <vot...@uvv.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >Examples of how to properly indicate your vote:
> >
> > [ YES ] example.yes.vote
> > [ NO ] example.no.vote
> > [ ABSTAIN ] example.abstention
> > [ CANCEL ] example.cancellation
> [snip]
> >| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
> >| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
> >
> >Your Vote Newsgroup
> >--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
> >[ ] blah.blah.blah
>
> I take it, although it is NEVER said anywhere that
> I can see, that "YES" means "YES I favor this newsgroup
> being created", and "NO" means "NO I favor this newsgroup
> not being created" (even though there is never anywhere
> listed an actual yes/no question). [Yes, this seems
> fairly obvious, but this isn't really my point, but the
> fact it's not called out explicitly seems a tad odd.]
>
> "ABSTAIN" is also fairly obvious. But "CANCEL"? Am I
> voting for a newsgroup in which all posts are automatically
> cancelled? Am I voting to cancel the CFV for this group?
>
> I assume this is standard terminology somewhere, but for such
> a careful-to-not-require-reference-to-any-external-material
> document, this sure falls down in this regards.
>
Sean Timarco Baggaley
Sean T Barrett wrote in message ...
>I assume that most of this call for votes
>is boilerplate. So why, pray tell, does it
>explain exactly what is being voted on (i.e.
>via charters and rationales), and give beautifully
>explicit descriptions of how to fill in the vote form,
>and yet not explain what the votes mean?
Eh?
This is the first time I've ever voted on USENET, but I had no trouble
understanding it. ("CANCEL" -- as the document explained -- is for
cancelling a vote you made earlier (mistakenly, I assume).)
Granted, it could do with a little re-writing now that we've got far more
USENET-ignorant posters than there used to be (who may not understand the
terminology), but it's hardly as obfuscatory as some of the C code I've had
the misfortune to work with. 8)
HTH,
--
Sean Timarco Baggaley
E&OE
Neil Crellin
LAST CALL FOR VOTES (of 2)
RATIONALE: all groups
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
END CHARTER.
HOW TO VOTE:
| 2ND CALL FOR VOTES: comp.games.development.* hierarchy
| Official Usenet Voting Ballot <CGDH-0002> (Do not remove this line!)
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Please provide your real name, or your vote may be rejected. Place
| ONLY your name (ie. do NOT include your e-mail address or any other
| information; ONLY your name) after the colon on the following line:
Voter name:
| Insert YES, NO, ABSTAIN, or CANCEL inside the brackets for each
| newsgroup listed below (do not delete the newsgroup name):
Your Vote Newsgroup
--------- -----------------------------------------------------------
[ ] comp.games.development.art
[ ] comp.games.development.audio
[ ] comp.games.development.design
[ ] comp.games.development.industry
[ ] comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
[ ] comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)
======== END OF BALLOT: Delete everything after this line ==============
comp.games.development.* hierarchy Bounce List - Please contact me about your vote
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ld...@u.washington.edu L. Dubb
mkissin@-REMOVETHIS-ihug.co.nz Michael Kissin
REMOVE_THIS.R...@goeppingen.netsurf.de Ralf Schneider
Neil Crellin
unmoderated group comp.games.development.art passes 148:17
unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio passes 139:19
unmoderated group comp.games.development.design passes 159:14
unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry passes 140:21
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms passes 146:20
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer) passes 143:24
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
148 17 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.art
139 19 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.audio
159 14 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.design
140 21 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.industry
146 20 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
143 24 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.misc
There were 181 valid ballots and 3 invalid ballots
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups lines:
comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for games.
comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming games.
The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Jul 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
RATIONALE: all groups
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
END CHARTER.
comp.games.development.* hierarchy Final Voter list
comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer)--------+
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms -------+|
comp.games.development.industry ------+||
comp.games.development.design -----+|||
comp.games.development.audio ----+||||
comp.games.development.art ---+|||||
||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
gmurphy * riot.com.au Glen Murphy YAYYAA
n3072129 * bohm.anu.edu.au Daniel Noll YYYYYY
l.cameron2 * ugrad.unimelb.edu.au Levi Cameron YYYYYY
house * usq.edu.au Ron House YYYYYY
eyal * eyal.emu.id.au Eyal Lebedinsky YYYYYY
jasmine * fl.net.au Jasmine Taylor NNNNNN
andrew * one.net.au Andrew Maizels YYYYYY
phaywood * aardvark.apana.org.au Peter Haywood YYYYYY
stg * stg.com.br Luiz Marques YYYYYY
chriseb * nortel.ca Chris Ebenezer YNYNNY
tapio.vocadlo * sympatico.ca Tapio Vocadlo YYAAYY
jmcgarry * uoguelph.ca James McGarry YYYYYY
r.blum * advertainment.com Robert Blum YYYYYY
dmitry * alex-ua.com Dmitry Kuzmenko YYYYYY
FltLin * aol.com Joseph MacGonegal AAYAAA
lucfrench * aol.com Luc French YYYYYN
MatthewWM * aol.com Matt Marshall YYYYYY
sforsell * aol.com Scott Forsell YYYYYY
cdt * audiophile.com Chris Trumbore AAAAAA
kevin * trixie.kosman.via.ayuda.com Kevin O'Gorman YYYYYY
kimdv * best.com Kim DeVaughn YYYYYN
stainles * bga.com Dwight Brown NNNNNN
dkirby * bigfoot.com Dave Kirby YYYYYY
wtiger * bigfoot.com Khairul Azhar AAYAYY
erikh * caravelsoftware.com Erik Hermansen YYYYYY
craighea * citilink.com Matt Craighead YYYYYY
pkasieck * cognex.com Philip T. Kasiecki YYYAYY
clover * crl.com Alex D'Angelo YYYYYY
rhofmann * crl.com Kyle R. Hofmann YYYYYY
andy * crystald.com Andy Wright YYYYYY
fche * cygnus.com Frank Ch. Eigler NNYYYY
GGrasso * darkearth.com Gabriel Grasso YNYYNN
GHeliou * darkearth.com Gwen Heliou YYYYYY
JFRoulon * darkearth.com Jean Francois Roulon YYYNNN
MDonnain * darkearth.com Marc Donnain YYYYNN
DasBuro.Com!mfx * DasBuro.Com Markus Freericks YYYYYA
booda * datasync.com Martin H. Booda YYYYYY
guymacon * deltanet.com guym...@deltanet.com (Guy Macon) YYYNYA
ric * digital-animations.com Richard Cooper YYYYAA
ron * dorianresearch.com Ron Levine YYYYYY
bob149 * efortress.com Bob Blanchard NNNNNN
ehsmalu * ehpt.com Mattias Lundstrom YYYYYY
jeffsj * execpc.com Jeffery S. Jones YYYYYY
david * farrar.com David Farrar NNYYNY
jason * gaydeceiver.com Jason Steiner NNNNNN
jamul * hamumu.com Mike Hommel YYYYYY
menright1 * home.com Mike Enright NNNNNN
celticwiccan * hotmail.com Peter Byron NNNNNN
msimpson * hotmail.com Michael Simpson YYYYYY
rayb * shofixti.fc.hp.com Raymond G. Bingham YYYYYY
abell * uk.ibm.com Aaron Bell YAYAYY
gregfra * iname.com Greg Franklin YNYYYY
richard_damon * iname.com Richard Damon YYYYYY
mikemaz * interlog.com Mike Linkovich YYYYYY
astapp * io.com Acy James Stapp YYYYYY
chris * kzim.com Christopher Robin Zimmerman AAAAAN
christopher.j.roy * lmco.com Christopher J. Roy YYYYYY
rmenninger * lucent.com Richard Menninger YYYYYY
mmanyen * meyerglass.com Mark Manyen YYYYYY
cipher * mindspring.com Cipher YYYYYY
olav * viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar NNNNNN
millette * my-dejanews.com Robin Y. Millette YYYYYY
mqj * ix.netcom.com Mandel Q. Johnson YYYYNN
simpson * netcom.com Bob Simpson YYYYYY
tgm * netcom.com Thomas G. McWilliams NNNNNN
shinton * netdoor.com Stephen Hinton YYYYYY
rava * netrevolution.com Jean-Francois Richard YYYYYY
christer * neversoft.com Christer Ericson YYYYYY
ed * u170a.newbourbon.com Edd Twilbeck YYYYYY
keegansj * perkin-elmer.com Stephen Keegan YYYYYY
carl * pinder.com Carl L. Pinder YYYNYY
bbrandt * pobox.com Brian Brandt YYYYYY
greg.stelmack * redstorm.com Greg Stelmack YYYYYY
qduffy * relic.com Quinn Duffy AAYYAA
GNorth * columbus.rr.com Gloria North YYYYYY
jjszucs * rochester.rr.com John J. Szucs YYYYYY
brennan * Rt66.com Brennan Underwood YYYYYN
buzzard * world.std.com Sean Barrett YYYYYY
ulrich * world.std.com Thatcher Ulrich YYYYYY
csehy * Stormfront.com Chris Sehy YYYYYY
dclemons * Stormfront.com David Clemons YYYYYY
fbertrand * Stormfront.com Francois Bertrand YYYYYY
gsabatini * Stormfront.com Gregory Sabatini YYYYYY
JoeS * Stormfront.com Joe Straitiff YYYYYY
rstevenson * Stormfront.com Randall Stevenson YYYYYY
slee * Stormfront.com Shawn D. Lee YYYYYY
swaits * stormfront.com Stephen Waits YYYYYY
Thomas.Granvold * Eng.Sun.COM Thomas Granvold YYYYYY
arielle * taronga.com Stephanie da Silva YYYYYY
daver * teleport.com David Reynolds NNNNYY
pmonte * trecision.com Pietro Montelatici YAYYAA
TimS * tai.uk.com Tim Skipper YAYYYN
Jay * valvesoftware.com Jay Stelly YYYYYA
Ralf.Schneider * goeppingen.netsurf.de Ralf Schneider YYYYYY
jdibbelt * on-luebeck.de Julian Dibbelt YYYYYY
naddy * mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian Weisgerber NNNNNN
hsauer * marnie.teuto.de Henning Sauer YYYYYY
draettig * ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de Dirk Raettig YYYYYY
sbo * psy.med.uni-muenchen.de Boris Schaefer AAYYYY
infernal * bre.winnet.de Florian Schacht YYYYYY
erw * dde.dk Erwin Andreasen YYYYYY
breese * imada.ou.dk Bjorn Reese AAYAYY
GNALLE * MMF.ruc.dk Niels L Ellegaard YYYYYY
jlevenbe * math.berkeley.edu Josh Levenberg YYYYYY
dkass * cco.caltech.edu David Kass AAYAYY
newcombe * mordor.clayton.edu Dan Newcombe YYYYYY
mj2q+ * andrew.cmu.edu Mark A Jensen YYYYYY
will+ * cs.cmu.edu William Uther YAYYYY
hikaru * r39h52.res.gatech.edu David Hsu YYYYYY
k95dl01 * cc.kzoo.edu Dan Lawson AAAAAN
jsbrown0 * elbert.Mines.EDU Jeff Brown YYYYYY
mpslon01 * morehead-st.edu Michael Slone YYYYYY
mortlock * nmt.edu Justin Hooper YYYYYY
rmiller * cis.ohio-state.edu Ryan Miller YYYYYY
lpsmith * owlnet.rice.edu Lucian Smith YYYYYY
rick * bcm.tmc.edu Richard Miller NYYNNY
kamikaze * kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu Mark Hughes YYYYYY
llopis * zonker.ecs.umass.edu Noel Llopis YYYYYY
msn * Glue.umd.edu Mat Noguchi YYYYYY
rufinus * mbe.ece.wisc.edu J Rufinus YYYYYY
ahm * tid.es Alberto Hernandez Marcos YYYYYY
jpaaso * cc.helsinki.fi Juha Paaso YYYYYY
Pierre.Bru * spotimage.fr Pierre Bru YAYAYY
guerry * robot.uvsq.fr GUERRY YYYYYY
jhorneman * wanadoo.fr Jurie Horneman YYYYYY
vadik * cs.huji.ac.il Vadim Vygonets YYYYYY
brisker * actcom.co.il Tomer Brisker YYYYYY
choocy * hitech.com.my Choo Chi Yen YYYYYY
mikeshlz * animal.blarg.net Michael Scholz YYYYYY
vanevery * blarg.net Brandon Van Every YYYYYY
wal * blarg.net wayne a. lee YYYYYY
obi * clara.net Andy J Buchanan YYYYYY
thomas * clark.net Mark Thomas NNNNNN
bhall * cyberhighway.net Brian Hall YYYYYY
mking * dnc.net Matthew King YYYYYA
hipbone * earthlink.net Charles Cameron YYYYYY
pbern7 * earthlink.net Paul Bernhardt YYYYYY
jwilloug * gate.net Jason Willoughby AAYYYY
dwrobel * globalserve.net David Wrobel YYYYYY
marty44 * gmx.net Martin Boehme YYYNYY
sean.duffy * bbs.goldengate.net Sean Duffy AAAAAA
vpdura * hiwaay.net vic dura NNNNNN
newsd * troubled.hypermart.net Colin Charles YYYYYY
hildahlk * incentre.net Kendall Hildahl YYYAAY
dmckay * dfw.nationwide.net Dairin Mckay YAAAAA
babybasset1 * ntr.net Geoff Howland YYYYYY
bndwgn * pacbell.net Ron Hiler YYYYYY
marquez * pacbell.net Aaron Marquez NNNNNN
alexdawson * pemail.net Alex Dawson YYYYYY
wakelyn * pinn.net N. T. Wakelyn AAAANN
random * visi.net Michael Bosley YYYYYY
DaRiuS * darius.demon.nl Jeroen Janssen AAYAYY
wscheeps * worldonline.nl Walter Scheepens YYYYYY
perimath * sn.no Per I Mathisen NNNNYY
antony * ihug.co.nz Antony Simmonds YYYYYY
mkissin * ihug.co.nz Michael Kissin YYYYYY
daniel * pharos.co.nz Daniel Johns AAYAYY
donkiely * computer.org Don Kiely YYYYYY
dave * bureau42.ml.org David E. Smith YYYYYY
henrik.treadup * swipnet.se Henrik Treadup YYYYYY
nisbjl97 * student.umu.se Niklas Bjornestal YYYYYY
j.macgill * geography.leeds.ac.uk James Macgill YAYAYY
stb * stimarco.cix.co.uk Sean Timarco Baggaley YYYYYY
russ * algorithm.demon.co.uk Russ Williams YYYYYY
avatar * arkane.demon.co.uk Alistair J. R. Young AAAAAY
Raven * arpeggio.demon.co.uk Paul Hodgson YYYAAY
Hammy * croila.demon.co.uk Hamish Bell YYYYYY
abnixon * dmension.demon.co.uk Andy Nixon YYYYAA
neil * englewood.demon.co.uk Neil Adamson YYYYYY
otto * gizmo1.demon.co.uk Simon Lamont YYYYYY
glenn * home-pc.demon.co.uk Glenn Davies YYYYYN
lwithers * lwithers.demon.co.uk Laurence Withers YYYYYY
nigel * manmusic.demon.co.uk Nigel Street YYYYYY
rob * mhairi.demon.co.uk Rob Alexander YYYYYY
stephen.news-a * six-pine-trees.demon.co.uk Stephen Wright AYYYYY
Voting * valdena.demon.co.uk AST YYYNAA
leovdb * dircon.co.uk Leo van der Borgh YYYYYY
kol * strater.force9.co.uk Nikolaus Strater YYYYYY
jamess * gremlin.co.uk James Sutherland YYYYYY
AlexS * Probe.co.uk Alex Syrichas YYYYYY
htrd * tcp.co.uk Toby Dickenson YYYYYY
Invalid ballots
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
krenske * namosp.usq.edu.au Paul Krenske
! Undeliverable address
ldubb * u.washington.edu L. Dubb
! Undeliverable address
Nick.Burcombe * psygnosis.co.uk
! No votemark in ballot
--
Neil Crellin, UVV <ne...@stanford.edu>
Sean Timarco Baggaley
Well bugger me sideways, Brandon; you actually managed to get RGP and RGD
regulars to agree on something! Have you ever considered politics as a
career? :)
*
Assuming nobody has any problems with the vote... it's time for the RGP
Wake!
<FX: Chair scrapes backwards>
A figure rises uncertainly with a glass of heavily-disguised Ribena...
"My friends! I come not to praise RGP, but to delete it! This callsh f'r
(hic!) f'r... another drink!"
[FX: Gurgle, glug, glug... THUD!]
The next toast commences...
Neil Crellin
unmoderated group comp.games.development.art passes 148:17
unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio passes 139:19
unmoderated group comp.games.development.design passes 159:14
unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry passes 140:21
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms passes 146:20
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer) passes 143:24
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
148 17 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.art
139 19 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.audio
159 14 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.design
140 21 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.industry
146 20 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
143 24 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.misc
There were 181 valid ballots and 3 invalid ballots
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups lines:
comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for games.
comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming games.
The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Jul 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
RATIONALE: all groups
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
END CHARTER.
comp.games.development.* hierarchy Final Voter list
Raymond Bingham
> RESULT
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.art passes 148:17
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio passes 139:19
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.design passes 159:14
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry passes 140:21
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms passes 146:20
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer) passes 143:24
YES!! Victory is ours! Muwahahahahahaha!!!
Thanks and kudos to Brandon for work on the charters! (And, coincidentally,
though it took you seven tries, this was one of the most painless newsgroup
proposals I've ever seen... :-)
(Interesting to see that design got the most votes, and was one of those
most in question of passing during the debates... :-)
Eureka! I finally have my game.development.art group! Woo-hoo!
See you there...
Best regards,
PS. This is better than the world cup! ;-) Partay!
Sean Timarco Baggaley
>Control: cancel <6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>Subject: cmsg cancel <6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>Message-ID: <cancel.6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>From: HipC...@mifbatf.net
>Sender: "Sean Timarco Baggaley" <s...@solarflair.ndirect.co.uk>
>Approved: HipC...@mifbatf.net
>Newsgroups: news.groups
>Date: 17 Jul 1998 12:48:33 GMT
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>Organization: HipCrime International, unLtd.
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.237.253.7
>Lines: 2
>Path:
...!newspeer.monmouth.com!rain.fr!194.250.238.3!nntp.HipCrime.new!cybe
rspam!hipcancel!usenet
>
>Cancelled by HipCrime's NewsAgent.
WTF...?
Does anyone know what this is all about?
I only remember sending it out once, and I noticed the same crap under
Neil Crellin's "REPOST" messages, too.
Who the blazes is "HipCrime"?
Jon Bell
Sean Timarco Baggaley <inco...@solarflair.ndirect.co.uk> wrote:
>>========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======:
>>Control: cancel <6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>>Subject: cmsg cancel <6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>>Message-ID: <cancel.6on53f$r2u$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>
>>From: HipC...@mifbatf.net
[snip]
>Who the blazes is "HipCrime"?
A vandal who doesn't like the spam-cancellers who hang out in
news.admin.net-abuse.usenet. He decided to retaliate by cancelling
hundreds of postings in that newsgroup and in news.groups. A robot named
"Dave the Resurrector" has been re-posting everything that HipCrime
cancels in those groups.
--
Jon Bell <jtb...@presby.edu>
Neil Crellin
unmoderated group comp.games.development.art passes 148:17
unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio passes 139:19
unmoderated group comp.games.development.design passes 159:14
unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry passes 140:21
unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms passes 146:20
Yes No | 2/3 >100 | Pass | Group
---- ---- | --- ---- | ---- | -------------------------------------------
148 17 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.art
139 19 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.audio
159 14 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.design
140 21 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.industry
146 20 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
143 24 | Yes Yes | Yes | comp.games.development.programming.misc
There were 181 valid ballots and 3 invalid ballots
A five day discussion period follows this announcement. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the
moderator of news.announce.newgroups will create the groups shortly
thereafter.
Newsgroups lines:
comp.games.development.art Creative use of visual art in games.
comp.games.development.audio Music, sound, speech production.
comp.games.development.design Designing gameplay and rules systems.
comp.games.development.industry Biz news, project management, jobs.
comp.games.development.programming.algorithms Abstract algorithms for games.
comp.games.development.programming.misc General info on programming games.
The voting period closed at 23:59:59 UTC, 16 Jul 1998.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. Questions
RATIONALE: all groups
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.art
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.audio
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.design
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.industry
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
RATIONALE: comp.games.development.programming.misc
CHARTER: comp.games.development.art
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.audio
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.design
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.industry
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.algorithms
END CHARTER.
CHARTER: comp.games.development.programming.misc
END CHARTER.
comp.games.development.* hierarchy Final Voter list
Erik Hermansen
wrote:
> RESULT
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.art passes 148:17
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.audio passes 139:19
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.design passes 159:14
> unmoderated group comp.games.development.industry passes 140:21
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.algorithms passes 146:20
>unmoderated group comp.games.development.programming.misc (renames rec.games.programmer) passes 143:24
Yay!
Thanks for all the work, Brandon.
/* Deadly Rooms of Death - puzzling game of dungeon */
/* exploration for Windows. Easy to play, damned */
/* hard to win. Download from: */
/* http://webfootgames.com/catalog/drod.htm */
Boris Schaefer
"Sean Timarco Baggaley" <inco...@solarflair.ndirect.co.uk> writes:
| >Cancelled by HipCrime's NewsAgent.
|
| WTF...?
|
| Does anyone know what this is all about?
| I only remember sending it out once, and I noticed the same crap under
| Neil Crellin's "REPOST" messages, too.
|
| Who the blazes is "HipCrime"?
news.groups is currently under a Cancel Attack from HipCrime. Dave
the Resurrector is reposting all the posts with REPOST added to the
subject and the cancel message attached.
--
Boris Schaefer -- s...@psy.med.uni-muenchen.de
Old programmers never die, they just branch to a new address.
EuroDog
Boris Schaefer wrote in message ...
>
>"Sean Timarco Baggaley" <inco...@solarflair.ndirect.co.uk> writes:
>
>| >Cancelled by HipCrime's NewsAgent.
>|
>| WTF...?
>|
>| Does anyone know what this is all about?
>| I only remember sending it out once, and I noticed the same crap under
>| Neil Crellin's "REPOST" messages, too.
>|
>| Who the blazes is "HipCrime"?
>
>news.groups is currently under a Cancel Attack from HipCrime. Dave
>the Resurrector is reposting all the posts with REPOST added to the
>subject and the cancel message attached.
>
Check out comp.lang.c. They've been under bombardment from these idiots for
a while.