Oh no...
John Flynn
http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
link that connects to the on-line OED.
See it?
Hmmm...
--
johnF
"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before
breakfast."
-- from _Alice Through the Looking-Glass_, Lewis Carroll
Barry in Indy
John Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Go to this page:
>
> http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
>
> and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
> link that connects to the on-line OED.
>
> See it?
>
> Hmmm...
>
Barry in Indy-a
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jens Ayton
>
> In article <38B6C961...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>,
> John Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Go to this page:
> >
> > http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
> >
> > and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
> > link that connects to the on-line OED.
> >
> > See it?
> >
> > Hmmm...
> >
> I'm not familiar with that language. Where is it spoken?
In Enlga. It's a Serbian province.
--
Jens Ayton
Relieve guilt and hunger in one fell swoop: http://www.thehungersite.com
Polgara The Sorceress
>Go to this page:
>http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
>and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to
>the link that connects to the on-line OED.
>
>See it?
Oh.
No.
--
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Nothing is so strong as gentleness,
Nothing so gentle as real strength.
-- Billy Browne
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Ray Heindl
<38B6C961...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>:
>Go to this page:
>
> http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
>
> and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
>link that connects to the on-line OED.
>
>See it?
>
>Hmmm...
>
I'm sure they did that on purpose. They know how much people enjoy
pointing out others' errors, and figured they could make lots of people
happy.
Should the OED bill itself at "the last word on wrods?"
--
Ray Heindl
John Flynn
> joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk (John Flynn) wrote in
> <38B6C961...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>:
>
>> Go to this page:
>>
>> http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
>>
>> and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
>> link that connects to the on-line OED.
>>
>> See it?
>>
>> Hmmm...
>
> I'm sure they did that on purpose. They know how much people enjoy
> pointing out others' errors, and figured they could make lots of
> people happy.
I thought about emailing them about it. Perhaps they might have
offered me a free copy of the full OED, but then I got worried about
where I would put it. I suppose I could lay a new path outside with
it, but what if I needed to use it in a hurry and there were people
standing on it waiting for the bus? I decided not to email them after
considering one drawback to my whole plan. Phew! disaster averted, eh?
> Should the OED bill itself at "the last word on wrods?"
"You'll never need another Enlgish dictionary... EVRE!"
--
johnF
"To eat well in England you should have breakfast three times a day."
-- Somerset Maugham
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>I thought about emailing them about it.
Worry no further, I have already done that little thing.
>Perhaps they might have
>offered me a free copy of the full OED,
Did I hear that most beautiful of words, FREE??? A FREE copy of
the OED? *Really???* Wowee, there's always hope, yeah?
>"To eat well in England you should have breakfast three times a
>ay."
> -- Somerset Maugham
Breakfast three times a day... Hmmmm. Ok, I've always enjoyed
having naps during the day. From now on, I will have a nap at
11am so I can have my second breakfast at noon and a nap at 4pm
so I can have my third breakfast at 5pm. Just as long as it
isn't oatmeal every time... Is it *legal* to have oatmeal that
many times in a day? I wonder...
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :-> <who would be most pleased to received a neato
freebie copy of the OED for doing a goodish deed today... or a
gold apihna star. Yes, at least one of the two!>
Graybags
>I thought about emailing them about it. Perhaps they might have
>offered me a free copy of the full OED, but then I got worried about
>where I would put it. I suppose I could lay a new path outside with
>it,
Reminds me of the old chestnut....
A man walks into a bookshop and buys "How to Hug", whan he gets home he is
most disappointed to find that he has purchased the 10th volume of the OED.
Ta Daaa™
Graybags http//:www.ta-daaa.com
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>I have to admit, though, my slippeddyfingeritis is improving.
You have inflammation of your "slippeddyfinger?" How
uncomfortable...
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Nothing is so strong as gentleness,
Nothing so gentle as real strength.
-- Billy Browne
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Polgara The Sorceress wrote, in part:
>
>> In article <38B86004...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>, John
>> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> I thought about emailing them about it.
>>
>
>ME! I
>found it! Well... amongst this group, anyway.
Rest easy for if I receive anything in response to my message, I
will gladly share with YOU! YOU! You who found it. 'K?
>You're probably just
>one of thousands haranguing those poor souls at the UK OUP web-
>site.
>Haven't they enough to do without getting spellings right, too?
A website advertising the last word in English dictionaries with
spelling mistakes on said site? How is *that* good for business?
[snip]
>The full OED sent to Canada? You lot would probably need to
>burn it
>to keep the igloos warm. although, it WOULD burn for al ong
>time. You
>could also use it as a calendar:
>
>"What volume are you throwing on the fire today?"
>"Ummm... 'Gig - Gon' I think."
>"Oh well, it must be June, then."
<sarcasm mode on> How amusing. <sarcasm mode off>
John Flynn
> In article <38B91CD6...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>, John
> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> You're probably just one of thousands haranguing those poor souls at
>> the UK OUP web-site.
>> Haven't they enough to do without getting spellings right, too?
>
> A website advertising the last word in English dictionaries with
> spelling mistakes on said site? How is *that* good for business?
Ah! 'tis a troublesome and contrary beast is irony. One sets him free,
one lets him gallop out into yonder pastures to frolic in the sun and
let others witness his finely groomed coat and gaze at his mighty
pedigree. Of those that see him, some immediately recognise his breed
and nod their heads in solemnity and reverence, followed by a wry smile
and oft a chuckle or two. But alas! there are those who bear witness
to the beast, and wonder at it. "What manner of animal is that?" they
muse with head scratching and furrowed brow, "It looks like a beast of
burden -- do we harness it with yoke and make it work? But wait! it
also looks like a fine beast -- a steed proud enough to bear a king!
Do we present it to our sovereign?" The dilemma of incomprehension.
Afeared that any such royal receiver of a gift would take offence at
being presented with a common beast-of-the-field lest they be mistaken,
those poor souls shackle the beast and make its life pedestrian and
wearisome. For shame... the noble creature dies a slight more death.
--
johnF
"An heraud on a scaffold made an 'Oo!'
Til al the noyse of peple was ydo,"
-- _The Knight's Tale_, Geoffrey Chaucer
Ray Heindl
[snip]
>
>>I thought about emailing them about it.
>
>Worry no further, I have already done that little thing.
As of this moment (more or less) they still haven't fixed it. Surely
they have a webmaster working weekends in case of emergencies like
this.
>
>>Perhaps they might have
>>offered me a free copy of the full OED,
Yes, but you'd have to pay the shipping, and take out a second mortgage
to do it.
>>"To eat well in England you should have breakfast three times a
>>ay."
>> -- Somerset Maugham
>
>Breakfast three times a day... Hmmmm. Ok, I've always enjoyed
>having naps during the day. From now on, I will have a nap at
>11am so I can have my second breakfast at noon and a nap at 4pm
>so I can have my third breakfast at 5pm. Just as long as it
>isn't oatmeal every time... Is it *legal* to have oatmeal that
>many times in a day? I wonder...
Probably illegal, immoral, and fattening. Depending on serving size,
of course.
--
Ray Heindl
Jens Ayton
>
> The full OED sent to Canada? You lot would probably need to burn it
> to keep the igloos warm. although, it WOULD burn for al ong time. You
> could also use it as a calendar:
>
> "What volume are you throwing on the fire today?"
> "Ummm... 'Gig - Gon' I think."
> "Oh well, it must be June, then."
It would last a decade in the privvy, too.
John Flynn
> As of this moment (more or less) they still haven't fixed it. Surely
> they have a webmaster working weekends in case of emergencies like
> this.
You would think so, wouldn't you?
> John Flynn wrote:
>
>> Perhaps they might have offered me a free copy of the full OED,
>
> Yes, but you'd have to pay the shipping, and take out a second
> mortgage to do it.
Nah... I'd drive down and pick it up myself.[1]
Talking of Oxford... I was in Oxford last year, and had a scary and
confusing experience with signposts. Wanting to find a particular
college of the University, I thought that perhaps the best way would be
to find the Tourist Information office. I saw a sign pointing down a
street, proudly stating that the Tourist Information office was further
down that particular avenue. I walked in the suggested direction, to
come to the end of the street with a signpost pointing to the right,
telling me the TI office is thattaway! I followed it, came to the end
of the street and saw a signpost saying that the TI office is in the
street to my right. I followed it, and guess what? Yes, another
signpost at the end of the street directing me down the street which at
the end of I KNEW I would find the first signpost that started me on
this spiral of despair. In other words, I had walked in a square and
ended back where I had started without once seeing the elusive Tourist
Information office. I was close to tears at this point. So I just
ignored the signposts, struck out in a random direction and as if by
magic I actually came to the particular college I was looking for.
Fantastic!
Despite this strange and bewildering experience in Oxford, I can still
recommend anyone taking a visit there. I got a nice cup of Earl Grey
tea there that day, too, so that's an added bonus.
[1] Lies. I'd actually need mechanical assistance to pick it all up at
the same time. And I'd hire one of those army four-tonners for the
drive there and back.
Polgara The Sorceress
Heindl) wrote:
[snip]
>>Worry no further, I have already done that little thing.
>
>As of this moment (more or less) they still haven't fixed it.
>Surely they have a webmaster working weekends in case of
>emergencies like this.
Most definitely! Perhaps I should write an complain about that
as well?
>Yes, but you'd have to pay the shipping, and take out a second
>mortgage to do it.
So I have to buy a house first in order to get my freebie? Not
much of a freebie then, is it?
And wouldn't OUP be nice and freight their beautiful work of art
to me from their Canadian offices? Via pack mule would be
the fastest method, I expect. I hear those Pony Express guys
are booked until the next Millennium (depending on when yours
begins/ends, etc.)
[snip]
>>Is it *legal* to have oatmeal that many times in a day? I
>>wonder...
>
>Probably illegal, immoral, and fattening. Depending on serving
>size, of course.
Just one bowl, full of the stuff, at a time. Sometimes with a
dash of brown sugar or a dollop of jam. But don't let's get
into oatmeal/porridge again, please? It's costing me a fortune
with my therapist to get its memory out of my mind...
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>So I just ignored the signposts, struck out in a random
>direction and as if by magic I actually came to the particular
>college I was looking for.Fantastic!
See, if you had used the Dirk Gently method of navigating in the
first place, you would have arrived sooner!
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :-> <who personally thinks maps and other instructions
are only "suggestions", to be used as a last resort only...>
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>Ah! 'tis a troublesome and contrary beast is irony.
[snip a wonderful piece of prose]
You sure you're not talking about a horse here??? Or a mule?
Or something? Or just experimenting with some neato, natty
and nifty personification?
BTW, it was *still* a nice bit o' writin' lad. As always. :->
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Nothing is so strong as gentleness,
Nothing so gentle as real strength.
-- Billy Browne
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Polgara The Sorceress
<sp...@dev.null> wrote:
[snip]
>It would last a decade in the privvy, too.
Thanks, but we're still working on the last of the Eaton's
catalogues.[1] After they're all gone, we're on to Sears...
FEETNOTES:
[1] A touch of irony in itself, considering Eaton's has closed
permanently in Canada.
John Flynn
> In article <38B98992...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>, John
> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ah! 'tis a troublesome and contrary beast is irony.
>
> [snip a wonderful piece of prose]
>
> You sure you're not talking about a horse here??? Or a mule? Or
> something? Or just experimenting with some neato, natty and nifty
> personification?
>
> BTW, it was *still* a nice bit o' writin' lad. As always. :->
Well, as I said yesterday... I've got to keep the standards up. If I
want some gossip, I drop into my local post office and listen to the
goings-on there. If I want a bit of witty and/or intellectual chattery,
I call into The Apihna Arms. Got to keep the two separate, you know?
--
johnF
"He that will write well in any tongue must follow the counsel of
Aristotle: to speak as the common people do, to think as wise men do."
-- _Toxophilus_ [1545], Roger Ascham
John Flynn
> In article <38B9B175...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>, John
> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> So I just ignored the signposts, struck out in a random direction
>> and as if by magic I actually came to the particular college I was
>> looking for. Fantastic!
>
> See, if you had used the Dirk Gently method of navigating in the
> first place, you would have arrived sooner!
Yes, but I wouldn't have had much of an anecdote to tell:
"I was in Oxford last year, looking for a particular part of the
University. I found it without much fuss."
Not quite as interesting, agree?
J (& H) Caws-Elwitt
On Sat, 26 Feb 2000, John Flynn wrote:
> Ray Heindl wrote:
>
> > joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk (John Flynn) wrote in
> > <38B6C961...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>:
> >
> >> Go to this page:
> >>
> >> http://www.oup.co.uk/literature/
> >>
> >> and scroll about 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to the
> >> link that connects to the on-line OED.
> >>
> >> See it?
> >>
> >> Hmmm...
> >
> > I'm sure they did that on purpose. They know how much people enjoy
> > pointing out others' errors, and figured they could make lots of
> > people happy.
>
> I thought about emailing them about it. Perhaps they might have
> offered me a free copy of the full OED, but then I got worried about
> where I would put it. I suppose I could lay a new path outside with
> it, but what if I needed to use it in a hurry and there were people
> standing on it waiting for the bus? I decided not to email them after
> considering one drawback to my whole plan. Phew! disaster averted, eh?
>
> > Should the OED bill itself at "the last word on wrods?"
>
> "You'll never need another Enlgish dictionary... EVRE!"
>
> --
Speaking of seeded errors . . . for years I observed that the pre-CD
_Books in Print_ (U.S.) listed Christian Science founder Mary Baker Eddy
as the author of _Hats Off, Andy Capp!_, while more predictably
attributing the other volumes in that series to a cartoonist named Smythe.
_Hats Off_ was even cross-referenced to Eddy in her extensive entry in the
Authors volume. I don't recall how I originally stumbled upon this (I am
not a fan of either Eddy or Smythe), but I used to make a point of
checking on it when the new edition came out each year.
jonathan (jc-e)
John Flynn
> Speaking of seeded errors . . . for years I observed that the pre-CD
> _Books in Print_ (U.S.) listed Christian Science founder Mary Baker
> Eddy as the author of _Hats Off, Andy Capp!_, while more
> predictably attributing the other volumes in that series to a
> cartoonist named Smythe. _Hats Off_ was even cross-referenced to
> Eddy in her extensive entry in the Authors volume. I don't recall
> how I originally stumbled upon this (I am not a fan of either Eddy
> or Smythe), but I used to make a point of checking on it when the
> new edition came out each year.
Could it not have been a collaboration between the two? Possibly
Andy Capp was originally going to be a leading figure in the Christian
Science movement, but after a bitter falling-out episode, Reg Smythe
made him a lay-about slob just to annoy his former colleague/friend/
lover/whatever.
--
johnF
"I hope, one day, to feature in your sig....."
-- Rob Saville, APIHNA, 17 Feb 2000
Ray Heindl
<Pine.SOL.4.10.100022...@parsley.epix.net>:
[snip]
>Speaking of seeded errors . . . for years I observed that the pre-CD
>_Books in Print_ (U.S.) listed Christian Science founder Mary Baker
>Eddy as the author of _Hats Off, Andy Capp!_, while more predictably
>attributing the other volumes in that series to a cartoonist named
>Smythe. _Hats Off_ was even cross-referenced to Eddy in her
>extensive entry in the Authors volume. I don't recall how I
>originally stumbled upon this (I am not a fan of either Eddy or
>Smythe), but I used to make a point of checking on it when the new
>edition came out each year.
On the intentional errors front, one of the local traffic-reporting
organizations got tired of having their information "borrowed" by
competing services. So one day, they made up a report that fire crews,
or something of the sort, were blocking a fictitious street. Sure
enough, one of their competitors dutifully reported the same blockage.
I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order to
catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, have
any examples?
--
Ray Heindl
Polgara The Sorceress
Heindl) wrote:
[snip]
>I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order
>to
>catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if
>so, have
>any examples?
By including "nonexistent" words in the dictionary, does that
mean that the word now exists? It's in the dictionary and so is
its definition. Therefore existance???
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Barry in Indy
Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> In article <38bbe518$0$13...@news.en.com>, rhe...@nccw.net (Ray
> Heindl) wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order
> >to
> >catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if
> >so, have
> >any examples?
>
> By including "nonexistent" words in the dictionary, does that
> mean that the word now exists? It's in the dictionary and so is
> its definition. Therefore existance???
>
> **** [cut along the dotted line]
>
> Smilies!
>
words found in a dictionary, then we are all criminals. Unless, of
course, they are only after other dictionary publishers. But what's the
difference?
Barry in Indy
John Flynn
> In article <38bbe518$0$13...@news.en.com>, rhe...@nccw.net (Ray
> Heindl) wrote:
>
>> I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order to
>> catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so,
>> have any examples?
>
> By including "nonexistent" words in the dictionary, does that mean
> that the word now exists? It's in the dictionary and so is its
> definition. Therefore existance???
Interesting... just think of the power that dictionary editors actually
wield over us. How many people dash to the dictionary when they
encounter a new word and accept the entry they see without cross-
referencing to another dictionary to see if the first one is lying?
--
johnF
"Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what
we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true."
-- _Mysticism and Logic_, Bertrand Russell [1917]
Jens Ayton
>
> And how does one NOT plagiarize a dictionary?
As Calvin[1] put it, "Allow me to quote freely from the alphabet."
[1] The one with the tiger.
Jens Ayton
>
> I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order to
> catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, have
> any examples?
From the alt.english.usage FAQ <http://www.faqs.org/faqs/alt-usage-english-faq/>:
'How reliable are dictionaries?
------------------------------
'A former senior lexicographer at a major dictionary publisher has
told me by e-mail: "An editor seldom sits down and composes new
text for any lemma out of whole cloth. Even for a supposedly
thoroughgoing revision, what usually happens is that you take the
text from your previous edition, apply whatever mechanical
formatting changes have been decreed, and then check two or three of
your competitors' books to see if they've said anything different
from what you have. (Right -- it's no accident that all the major
dictionaries look so much alike!) This practice can lead to some
pretty awful results; the nautical terminology in [a dictionary that
I worked on] was based on 19th-century square-rigger stuff
originally copied out of OED -- and evidently *they* didn't have any
sailors on the staff either!
'"In any case, the citation files don't normally even get looked
at unless something in the entry raises a red flag -- it's a new
word, or a member of some class of words marked for special scrutiny
(e.g., gender-specific terms or personal pronouns), or has been
tagged for special attention as the result of someone's query
somewhere along the line."
'For more on the frightening extent to which dictionaries copy
from one another, see "The Genealogy of Dictionaries", in Robert
Burchfield's _Unlocking the English Language_ (Hill and Wang,
1992, ISBN 0-374-52339-8), pp. 147-165.
'Thus we see that a consensus of dictionaries does not necessarily
indicate a consensus of actual research. Nor does disagreement
among dictionaries necessarily indicate actual scholarly
controversy: it may simply be that the lexicographers were too
overworked and deadline-pressed to copy from one another more
thoroughly. Samuel Johnson's observation, "Dictionaries are like
watches; the worst is better than none, and the best cannot be
expected to go quite true", remains highly pertinent today, despite
the improvements in both products since Johnson's day.'
John Flynn
> Barry in Indy wrote:
>
>> And how does one NOT plagiarize a dictionary?
>
> As Calvin[1] put it, "Allow me to quote freely from the alphabet."
>
> [1] The one with the tiger.
He had a tiger? No wonder he turned to religion...
[Yes, I do know what Jens means -- before anyone says anything]
Ray Heindl
<89irub$co0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>In article <21e61871...@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com>,
> Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>> In article <38bbe518$0$13...@news.en.com>, rhe...@nccw.net (Ray
>> Heindl) wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order
>> >to
>> >catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if
>> >so, have
>> >any examples?
>>
>> By including "nonexistent" words in the dictionary, does that
>> mean that the word now exists? It's in the dictionary and so is
>> its definition. Therefore existance???
>>
>And how does one NOT plagiarize a dictionary? If we cannot use the
>words found in a dictionary, then we are all criminals. Unless, of
>course, they are only after other dictionary publishers. But what's
>the difference?
Uh oh, the word police are at the door.
_IF_ what I heard is true, the purpose of the "nonexistent" words would
be to determine if other dictionaries include plagiarized material. On
the other hand, once a word is in any dictionary, it could be used by
the public, so a plagiarizer could argue that researchers had heard the
word in the wild. But if the definition were taken word-for-word, it
would be a little hard to explain.
--
Ray Heindl
Polgara The Sorceress
>>
>>alphabet."
>>
>> [1] The one with the tiger.
>
>He had a tiger? No wonder he turned to religion...
>
>[Yes, I do know what Jens means -- before anyone says anything]
Luther up, John! Maybe Jens went to the School of Hard Knox...
So just grin and Barrett [1] and watch the thread Eddy [2] as it
will. :-)
FEETNOTES:
[1] Reference to Mary Barrett Dyer, America's famous Quaker
martyr.
[2] Reference to Mary Baker Eddy.
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Maggie Newman
>
>> I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order to
>> catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, have
>> any examples?
>
>dictionary, contained an entry all about a fictitious Scandinavian
>composer, but the reason for its inclusion wasn't made clear.
>
For reasons others have mentioned, it may be difficult to accomplish
this with dictionaries -- but there is some evidence that *mapmakers*
and atlas publishers include fake information as copyright traps.
Check out
http://www.urbanlegends.com/products/maps_copyright_traps_in.html
Maggie "my other ng" Newman
sky...@drizzle.com
> Alan Pemberton <ne...@pembers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I've heard that dictionaries include nonexistent words in order to
>>> catch plagiarizers. Does anyone know if this is true, and if so, have
>>> any examples?
>>
>>According to a Radio Four quiz this week, an edition of Grove, the music
>>dictionary, contained an entry all about a fictitious Scandinavian
>>composer, but the reason for its inclusion wasn't made clear.
>
> For reasons others have mentioned, it may be difficult to accomplish
> this with dictionaries -- but there is some evidence that *mapmakers*
> and atlas publishers include fake information as copyright traps.
I don't know if it was there as a copyright trap, but I have vivid
memories of driving into Death Valley (California, U.S.A., very very hot)
in summer, looking and looking for the little town of Bonnie Claire that
the road atlas claimed was there, and never finding it. Fortunately, my
parents and I had just enough gas to get to the tourist trap on the other
side.
Kylee
Polgara The Sorceress
sky...@drizzle.com wrote:
[snip]
>Fortunately, my parents and I had just enough gas to get to the
tourist trap on the other side.
>
>Kylee
I hope it was a humane trap that practiced the "catch and
release" rule of tourist trapping...
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Nothing is so strong as gentleness,
Nothing so gentle as real strength.
-- Billy Browne
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Polgara The Sorceress wrote:
[snip]
>
>Interesting... just think of the power that dictionary editors
>actually
>wield over us. How many people dash to the dictionary when they
>encounter a new word and accept the entry they see without
>cross-
>referencing to another dictionary to see if the first one is
>lying?
Well I don't need to consult another dictionary to see if the
first one is lying somewhere. I can plainly see that with my
own eyes. Look! There's my red covered, neato dictionary lying
on my desk right now! See it???
Actually, if you only have one dictionary, I believe you are
obviously more likely to accept what the definition says. What
other source will contradict the first, if you only *have* one
source? But... I think now I will be more likely to cross-
reference between my two dictionaries now that John has
mentioned this. And even then, I'll probably *still* use the
word I'm looking for incorrectly. :-)
Polgara The Sorceress
<sasc...@my-deja.com> wrote:
[snip]
>And how does one NOT plagiarize a dictionary? If we cannot use
>the
>words found in a dictionary, then we are all criminals. Unless,
>of
>course, they are only after other dictionary publishers. But
>what's the
>difference?
WARNING: The following contains a genealogy analogy. Read at
your own risk if you're not interested in genealogy. I won't be
held responsible for any damages that might occur... :->
If I may make a comparison here. A dictionary is like
genealogy: it's not the *content* that is copyrightable, it's
its format that *is* copyrightable. Data like birth and death
dates are a matter of public record, so they cannot be
copyrighted and therefore are not plagiarized. It's the
*format* that a researcher uses to display the data in a certain
format and accompany it with certain biographical data, also in
a certain format, that the researcher may copyright that
*format.* And therefore copying that data without attribution
would indeed be plagiarism.
So a dictionary would be, in my opinion, the same idea. It's
the *format* of how the definition is presented that is the
key. For example, if I wanted to
enter
a definition
in my
neato
dictionary
in this
manner,
then,
I could
possibly
copyright
this
format,
even though
I am
using
words
already
used in
another
dictionary.
:-)
Just a thought...
John Flynn
An interesting thought, too.
But another branch of this thread mentions atlases and maps. I wonder
what exactly is copyrighted there. I mean... the format of how words
are arranged on a page of dictionary is easily defined and "claimed"
by one publisher, because it's the words and what they say that is the
real information. How they are formatted is just the carrier of that
message.
But when it comes to a map or an atlas... the spacial relationships
between places must remain the same otherwise the map fails to be a
usable map.
That leads me onto thinking: what PRECISELY is copyrighted in a map?
The colours it uses for geographical features? The symbols?
Just another thought...
--
johnF
"An expert is someone who knows some of the worst mistakes that can be
made in his subject and how to avoid them."
-- _The Part and the Whole_, Werner Heisenberg
John Flynn
> Actually, if you only have one dictionary, I believe you are
> obviously more likely to accept what the definition says. What other
> source will contradict the first, if you only *have* one source?
> But... I think now I will be more likely to cross-reference between
> my two dictionaries now that John has mentioned this. And even then,
> I'll probably *still* use the word I'm looking for incorrectly. :-)
I think it's inlikely you'll use an uncorrect word.
John Flynn
> Maggie "my other ng" Newman
--
John "My other NG is a sci.* NG" Flynn
John Flynn
> On the intentional errors front, one of the local traffic-reporting
> organizations got tired of having their information "borrowed" by
> competing services. So one day, they made up a report that fire
> crews, or something of the sort, were blocking a fictitious street.
> Sure enough, one of their competitors dutifully reported the same
> blockage.
A deliberate news hoax has occurred just this week in the North East
of England.
On a large commercial local radio station up here, people were ringing
in to a phone-in program reporting on seeing a crocodile-type creature
roaming a particular area.
The next day, a few newspapers and a TV news programme actually
reported the story and interviewed "witnesses." Just on Tuesday, it
was revealed to be a complete set up.
So just remember this the next time you read an incredible story in
your local newspaper, okay? Just because it's in print AND on TV
doesn't mean it's true.
--
johnF
Jens Ayton
>
> Well I don't need to consult another dictionary to see if the
> first one is lying somewhere. I can plainly see that with my
> own eyes. Look! There's my red covered, neato dictionary lying
> on my desk right now! See it???
This pune, or play on words, strikes me as somewhat naff.
--
Jens Ayton
A man who has a dictionary knows what the word means; a man who has two
is never quite sure.
Jens Ayton
>
> Maggie Newman wrote, in part:
>
> > Maggie "my other ng" Newman
>
--
Jens Ayton
Two of my other NGs are comp.graphics.* NGs.
Dr Robin Bignall
"John Flynn" <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38BA3A18...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk...
[snip]
>
> "I was in Oxford last year, looking for a particular part of the
> University. I found it without much fuss."
>
Oxford. The amount of fuss depends on how particular you are.
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB... (docr...@cwcom.net)
Dr Robin Bignall
"Jens Ayton" <sp...@dev.null> wrote in message
news:38BE8A6B...@dev.null...
> John Flynn wrote:
> >
> > Maggie Newman wrote, in part:
> >
> > > Maggie "my other ng" Newman
> >
> > John "My other NG is a sci.* NG" Flynn
>
>
> --
> Jens Ayton
> Two of my other NGs are comp.graphics.* NGs.
>
--
Wrmst rgds,
R (my only ng is "Not Guilty" B... (docr...@cwcom.net)
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip - yes, not a hoax...]
>A deliberate news hoax has occurred just this week in the North
>East
>of England.
This reminds me of when I lived near Vancouver in my early
teens. Living so close to the border with Washington State, we
received several Washington television channels with our cable
(ahhhhh, to have cable again...) package. On April Fool's
Day, circa 1987/88, the newsroom with one channel mocked up a
report stating that the Seattle Space Needle had fallen down.
The story was complete with "live"[1] pictures of the Seattle
skyline minus the tower. And people actually believed it. My
one aunt phoned us and was so upset that it had fallen over
before she got a chance to see it in person... Of course, later
on the channel had to announce that it was all an April Fool's
joke as the newsroom was flooded with calls from concerned
Seattle citizens.
Well, if you're going to do a good practical joke, you might as
well go all the way!
FEETNOTE:
[1] That's something I can never understand: television that
is advertised as "Live!" Would it be more exciting to watch
television that was dead instead??? Or a bunch of dead people
being televised???
>So just remember this the next time you read an incredible
>story in
>your local newspaper, okay? Just because it's in print AND on
>TV
>doesn't mean it's true.
So you're saying there really *IS* no Great Pumpkin, aren't
you??? I'm not even *going* to ask about the Easter Dog...
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Half the joy of life, is in little things taken on the run.
Let us run if we must ... even the sands do that ... but let us
keep our hearts young and our eyes open, that nothing worthwhile
shall escape us. And everything is worth its while if we only
grasp it and its significance.
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[unpaste]
>> I'll probably *still* use the word I'm looking for
>>incorrectly. :-)
>
>I think it's inlikely you'll use an uncorrect word.
Sew yew think? Eye'm glad yew half such faith... :-)
John Ward
John Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Actually, if you only have one dictionary, I believe you are
> > obviously more likely to accept what the definition says. What other
> > source will contradict the first, if you only *have* one source?
> > But... I think now I will be more likely to cross-reference between
> > my two dictionaries now that John has mentioned this. And even then,
> > I'll probably *still* use the word I'm looking for incorrectly. :-)
> I think it's inlikely you'll use an uncorrect word.
Eh? Are you under the affluence of incohol?
--
John M Ward -- propping up the bar at the Apihna Arms
This is the group about its and it's --
those two small words that get on your wits.
It's also 'bout spells and spelling and grits,
and anything else to which one admits.
John Flynn
> A man who has a dictionary knows what the word means; a man who has
> two is never quite sure.
... and a man who has three is just -- well -- asking for trouble.
--
johnF
"Nothing doth more hurt in a state than that cunning men pass for
wise."
-- _Essays -- Of Cunning_, Francis Bacon
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>.... and a man who has three is just -- well -- asking for
>trouble.
I would be happy with a man who has just one - three is a freak
of nature. But ... he *would* be popular... [1]
FEETNOTE: [1] Read that however you want. :-)
**** [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
John Ward
Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
> >.... and a man who has three is just -- well -- asking for
> >trouble.
> I would be happy with a man who has just one - three is a freak
> of nature. But ... he *would* be popular... [1]
Well *I* have three.
> FEETNOTE: [1] Read that however you want. :-)
It was about dictionaries, yes?
> **** [cut along the dotted line]
This still won't happen. See my separator line below to see how it should
be done.
Polgara The Sorceress
<john...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>> >.... and a man who has three is just -- well -- asking for
>> >trouble.
>
>> I would be happy with a man who has just one - three is a
>>freak
>> of nature. But ... he *would* be popular... [1]
>
>Well *I* have three.
Terribly popular then, are you?
>> FEETNOTE: [1] Read that however you want. :-)
>
>It was about dictionaries, yes?
Uhhhhh ... errrrrr ... yeah, that's right. Sure it was about
dictionaries... <Laury blushes furiously and ducks head in
shame...>
>> **** [cut along the dotted line]
>
>This still won't happen. See my separator line below to see
>how it should
>be done.
<Humor alert!>
... [cut along the dotted line]
John Flynn
> Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> **** [cut along the dotted line]
>
> This still won't happen. See my separator line below to see how it
> should be done.
Unless a poster has either: (1) a newsreader that DOES automatically
trim sig blocks, or (2) a deep sense of sympathy for others, then the
point of adhering to the generally-agreed-upon method of delimiting a
sig block is lost on him/her/them, or so I've found.
Once a person has seen the magic of how a "-- " works, it's like the
sun rising and spreading its light out over the land, and the person
sees the entire world afresh. After that revelation, most will
endeavour to do it right.
But after saying that, I still like to use Netscape's Communicator
for newsreading... so there!
--
johnF
"Commonsense is the most widely distributed commodity in the world, for
everyone thinks himself so well endowed with it."
-- _Le discours de la méthode_, René Descartes [1637]
Dr Robin Bignall
> John Ward wrote:
>
> > Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> **** [cut along the dotted line]
> >
> > This still won't happen. See my separator line below to see how it
> > should be done.
>
> Unless a poster has either: (1) a newsreader that DOES automatically
> trim sig blocks, or (2) a deep sense of sympathy for others, then the
> point of adhering to the generally-agreed-upon method of delimiting a
> sig block is lost on him/her/them, or so I've found.
>
> Once a person has seen the magic of how a "-- " works, it's like the
> sun rising and spreading its light out over the land, and the person
> sees the entire world afresh. After that revelation, most will
> endeavour to do it right.
>
> But after saying that, I still like to use Netscape's Communicator
> for newsreading... so there!
>
Sunshine. When I cut off your siggy lines, I do it manually, deliberately,
and with malice aforethought (whatever that means).
Is it that my browser, laughingly called a computer program by those folks
who brought us MS Dos and then went rapidly downhill from there, have not
included a pair of scissors, or something? That is a rhetorical question: I
sadly know the answer.
Jens Ayton
>
> Once a person has seen the magic of how a "-- " works, it's like the
> sun rising and spreading its light out over the land, and the person
> sees the entire world afresh. After that revelation, most will
> endeavour to do it right.
I find that I tend to trim posts a lot anyway, so the advantage isn't
all that great.
--
Jens Ayton
Steven M. O'Neill
Polgara The Sorceress
<docr...@cwcom.net> wrote:
[snip]
>--, or any combination thereof, does nothing either for me or
>my computer,
>Sunshine. When I cut off your siggy lines, I do it manually,
>deliberately,
>and with malice aforethought (whatever that means).
Try making the phrase "with malice AND aforethought" and it
might work better for you. Then it might mean "premeditated
spite or criminal intention." Maybe. Or it has something to do
with the criminally insane, I can never remember the
difference... >;->
--
... [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Half the joy of life, is in little things taken on the run.
Let us run if we must ... even the sands do that ... but let us
keep our hearts young and our eyes open, that nothing worthwhile
shall escape us. And everything is worth its while if we only
grasp it and its significance.
-- Billy Browne
Polgara The Sorceress
Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>Unless a poster has either: (1) a newsreader that DOES
>automatically
>trim sig blocks, or (2) a deep sense of sympathy for others,
>then the
>point of adhering to the generally-agreed-upon method of
>delimiting a
>sig block is lost on him/her/them, or so I've found.
>
>Once a person has seen the magic of how a "-- " works, it's
>like the
>sun rising and spreading its light out over the land, and the
>person
>sees the entire world afresh. After that revelation, most will
>endeavour to do it right.
<sigh> So has *anyone* got my point in regards to just *why* I
do what I do for my signature block? Anyone at all??? Or
are y'all just bein' difficult here?
Ok, I'll explain, since you asked. It's a joke. Thanks for
listening. For more information, see some old thread somewhere
where this first came up.
>But after saying that, I still like to use Netscape's
>Communicator
>for newsreading... so there!
Wow! So if you hold your newspaper up to the screen in the
morning, Netscape will read your news to you??? Mine won't.
B-u-t I *do* have a program that will read webpages to me. The
only problem is that I read faster than it does. :-)
--
... [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :-> <who has bowed down at last to adding the "--" to her
sig block to make everyone else happy.... [sigh]>
Half the joy of life, is in little things taken on the run.
Let us run if we must ... even the sands do that ... but let us
keep our hearts young and our eyes open, that nothing worthwhile
shall escape us. And everything is worth its while if we only
grasp it and its significance.
-- Billy Browne
There *could* be some really important or mind-shatteringly
amazing stuff down here in my sig block one of these days, and
how many of you will notice??? It'll all be automatically
snipped away. Like that! Gone. Hmmmm.... <sigh>
Dr Robin Bignall
"Polgara The Sorceress" <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:1394cba9...@usw-ex0103-023.remarq.com...
> In article <2nFT3.144$jj.4497@news2-hme0>, "Dr Robin Bignall"
> <docr...@cwcom.net> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >--, or any combination thereof, does nothing either for me or
> >my computer,
> >Sunshine. When I cut off your siggy lines, I do it manually,
> >deliberately,
> >and with malice aforethought (whatever that means).
>
> Try making the phrase "with malice AND aforethought" and it
> might work better for you. Then it might mean "premeditated
> spite or criminal intention." Maybe. Or it has something to do
> with the criminally insane, I can never remember the
> difference... >;->
>
just malice aforethought, or am I having another attack of senile dementia?
No, I'm not. I'm right. Are you sure? Yes, I am.*
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB... (docr...@cwcom.net)
* this checking of facts with myself has kept me out of a lot of trouble
through the years. Or vice versa.
Steven M. O'Neill
><sigh> So has *anyone* got my point in regards to just *why* I
>do what I do for my signature block? Anyone at all???
Um, you're making fun of me?
--
Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
"TRAY-T!!!!" I say it "tray-t!"
Polgara The Sorceress
<docr...@cwcom.net> wrote:
[snip]
>No, I'm not. I'm right. Are you sure? Yes, I am.*
>* this checking of facts with myself has kept me out of a lot
>of trouble
>through the years. Or vice versa.
There's nothing wrong with that. It's when you argue with
yourself and you tell yourself a wrong answer and you believe it
that you are in trouble - especially with yourself. :-)
But I'll leave the two of you alone.
--
... [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
Half the joy of life, is in little things taken on the run.
Let us run if we must ... even the sands do that ... but let us
keep our hearts young and our eyes open, that nothing worthwhile
shall escape us. And everything is worth its while if we only
grasp it and its significance.
-- Billy Browne
Polgara The Sorceress
(Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid>
>wrote:
>><sigh> So has *anyone* got my point in regards to just *why* I
>>do what I do for my signature block? Anyone at all???
>
>Um, you're making fun of me?
>Steven O'Neill
>ste...@panix.com
>"TRAY-T!!!!" I say it "tray-t!"
I made it into someone's sig block! Yayyyy!!!!!!! Now how
about that gold apihna star someone???
--
... [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
John Flynn
> Try making the phrase "with malice AND aforethought" and it might
> work better for you. Then it might mean "premeditated spite or
> criminal intention." Maybe. Or it has something to do with the
> criminally insane, I can never remember the difference... >;->
Or just try leaving it as "malice aforethought" and imagining the fun
that can be had when using "aforethought" as an adjective.
--
johnF
"It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard a
pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young."
-- _The So-Called Evil_, Konrad Lorenz
John Flynn
>
> --
> ... [cut along the dotted line]
>
> Smilies!
>
> Laury :-> <who has bowed down at last to adding the "--" to her
> sig block to make everyone else happy.... [sigh]>
[Raises hand cautiously]
Ummm... excuse me, Miss... ummm, but it's still... never mind.
[Lowers hand, and sighs]
Jens Ayton
>
> --
Now if you stick a space behind that, people might stop complaining.
--
Jens Ayton
(Of course, it really ought to be 72x4 characters, too...)
John Flynn
> Polgara The Sorceress wrote:
>
>> --
>
> Now if you stick a space behind that, people might stop complaining.
>
> --
> Jens Ayton
> (Of course, it really ought to be 72x4 characters, too...)
72x4 is just SO limiting. I mean, one line for your name, and then
for aesthetic purposes, one blank line to separate the name from the
next lines which contain the message or quote. And if it's a quote,
then one line for the attribution.
In other words, that leaves just ONE line for the quote/message/advert/
whatever.
Urgh.
--
johnF
"Brigands demand your money or your life; women require both."
-- Samuel Butler [1835-1902]
John Flynn
> "Dr Robin Bignall" wrote, in part:
>
>> and with malice aforethought (whatever that means).
>
> Try making the phrase "with malice AND aforethought" and it might
> work better for you. Then it might mean "premeditated spite or
> criminal intention." Maybe. Or it has something to do with the
> criminally insane, I can never remember the difference... >;->
It IS "malice aforethought" and the more legal term is "malice
prepensed" -- which means that the evil intent to do wrong was thought
of before the actual opportunity and situation arose (as opposed to
acts committed in "the heat of the moment").
Having had a girlfriend whose sister passed her law degree last year
does have its advantages, even if that sister turned out to be the most
evil woman in the world, and caused... oh, sorry, this ISN'T Pour-Your-
Heart-Out Hour, is it? I apologise.
Steven M. O'Neill
>ste...@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>>"TRAY-T!!!!" I say it "tray-t!"
>
>I made it into someone's sig block! Yayyyy!!!!!!!
And, more importantly, you figured out a reasonable reason not to snip
my sig block when quoting....
--
Dr Robin Bignall
> Polgara The Sorceress wrote:
>
> > Try making the phrase "with malice AND aforethought" and it might
> > work better for you. Then it might mean "premeditated spite or
> > criminal intention." Maybe. Or it has something to do with the
> > criminally insane, I can never remember the difference... >;->
>
> that can be had when using "aforethought" as an adjective.
>
Hmmm. I'll have to think about that one carefully.
Dr Robin Bignall
[snip]
>
> Having had a girlfriend whose sister passed her law degree last year
> does have its advantages, even if that sister turned out to be the most
> evil woman in the world, and caused... oh, sorry, this ISN'T Pour-Your-
> Heart-Out Hour, is it? I apologise.
>
Maybe alt.sob.stories.anonymous for follow up?
Polgara The Sorceress
(Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
[snip]
>And, more importantly, you figured out a reasonable reason not
>to snip
>my sig block when quoting....
>--
>Steven O'Neill
>ste...@panix.com
>"TRAY-T!!!!" I say it "tray-t!"
Purely egotistical reasons, really. :-) Look! I left it in
again! Yayyy!
--
... [cut along the dotted line]
Smilies!
Laury :->
When in doubt, make a fool of yourself. There is a
microscopically thin line between being brillantly creative and
acting like the most gigantic idiot on earth. So what the hell,
leap.
--Cynthia Heimel
Steven M. O'Neill
>[snip]
>>And, more importantly, you figured out a reasonable reason not
>>to snip
>>my sig block when quoting....
>>--
>>Steven O'Neill
>>ste...@panix.com
>>"TRAY-T!!!!" I say it "tray-t!"
>
>Purely egotistical reasons, really. :-) Look! I left it in
>again! Yayyy!
And what's more reasonable than that?
--
Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
"On the whole, I'd rather be a jelly doughnut."
Graybags
>And what's more reasonable than that?
>--
>Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
rather be a jelly doughnut."
10 Lbs of carrots for 5 pence (8 cents)
Graybags
Steven M. O'Neill
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Domain servers listed in order:
NS.NAMESERVERS.NET 207.158.192.40
NS2.NAMESERVERS.NET 209.41.31.13
I assume this is not you.
--
Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
Graybags
Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a8rit$reh$1...@panix2.panix.com>...
This IS me, but THAT is NOT me, you are correct.
Graybags - suddenly having a bit of an identity crisis.
Steven M. O'Neill
>Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a8rit$reh$1...@panix2.panix.com>...
>>Graybags <nos...@anywhere.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> panix2:~>nwhois anywhere.co.uk
>>
>> Domain Name: ANYWHERE.CO.UK
>>
>> Registered For: kingswell.com
>>I assume this is not you.
>
>This IS me, but THAT is NOT me, you are correct.
Well, then, I also assume that Kingswell does not enjoy getting spam
that was meant for yourself.
Graybags
Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a8u4n$7hi$1...@panix6.panix.com>...
Now I'm confused, did you send me an e-mail and send it to
nos...@anywhere.co.uk ?
I'm thinking not, but if anyone does want to e-mail me from this group they
are reasonably welcome to send mail to gbags - at - globalnet - dot - co -
dot - uk
Graybags
Jens Ayton
The proper thing to do is put that address in your Reply-To field, and a
throw-away address (a Hotmail address, e.g.wise) in From. Alternatively,
put a truly invalid address, such as sp...@dev.null or
gb...@globalnet.co.uk.invalid, in your From field.
Your current method is, in effect, spamming the owner of anywhere.co.uk.
--
Jens Ayton
"I made it into someone's sig block! Yayyyy!!!!!!!"
-- Laury waxes extatic
Steven M. O'Neill
>>that was meant for yourself.
>Now I'm confused, did you send me an e-mail and send it to
>nos...@anywhere.co.uk ?
No, of course not; but the point is that that address is potentially
a valid one, and even if there is no user called nospam, that domain
name is in use, and most likely if I (or, more plausibly, some evil
spammers) tried to reply to one of your posts, someone somewhere (as
well as plenty of computers) would have to deal with it. I believe
(although I'm not sure because I am ideologically opposed to munging
my return address[1]) that the generally accepted thing to do is to end
the address with ".invalid".
Steve
--
Steven O'Neill ste...@panix.com
[1] I do, however, feel that the choice is up to the individual.
James Farrar
<jAyton_...@nettaxi.com> writes
>Graybags wrote:
>>
>> Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a8u4n$7hi$1...@panix6.panix.com>...
>> >Graybags <nos...@anywhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a8rit$reh$1...@panix2.panix.com>...
>> >>>Graybags <nos...@anywhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> panix2:~>nwhois anywhere.co.uk
>> >>>
>> >>> Domain Name: ANYWHERE.CO.UK
>> >>>
>> >>> Registered For: kingswell.com
>> >
>> >>>I assume this is not you.
>> >>
>> >>This IS me, but THAT is NOT me, you are correct.
>> >
>> >that was meant for yourself.
>>
>> are reasonably welcome to send mail to gbags - at - globalnet - dot - co -
>> dot - uk
>
>The proper thing to do is put that address in your Reply-To field, and a
>throw-away address (a Hotmail address, e.g.wise) in From. Alternatively,
>put a truly invalid address, such as sp...@dev.null or
>gb...@globalnet.co.uk.invalid, in your From field.
>
>Your current method is, in effect, spamming the owner of anywhere.co.uk.
>
>
And is against the terms of service of many ISPs. I don't know if
graybags' is one of them...
--
James Farrar
Graybags
Steven M. O'Neill wrote in message <8a99gc$f0d$1...@panix6.panix.com>...
>>>that was meant for yourself.
>
>a valid one, and even if there is no user called nospam, that domain
>name is in use, and most likely if I (or, more plausibly, some evil
>spammers) tried to reply to one of your posts, someone somewhere (as
>well as plenty of computers) would have to deal with it. I believe
>(although I'm not sure because I am ideologically opposed to munging
>my return address[1]) that the generally accepted thing to do is to end
>the address with ".invalid".
>
>Steve
I sit corrected. Clearly, I was thinking that no-one would have registered
the name Anywhre.co.uk. I also have a slight suspicion that they did it for
a laugh or for the potential dosh accrued from selling such a name.
Therefore, I don't feel guitly about them getting all of my spam, but I will
change the address in future (indeterminate lenght of time).
Graybags
Jens Ayton
>
> I sit corrected. Clearly, I was thinking that no-one would have registered
> the name Anywhre.co.uk. I also have a slight suspicion that they did it for
> a laugh or for the potential dosh accrued from selling such a name.
False. By the high-tech method of trying out
<http://www.anywhere.co.uk/> I have detected that this is the site of
Realtime Anywhere Ltd., Specialists in Online Databases & Electronic
Equipment. With slightly more advanced tools
(<http://www.samspade.org/t/>, whois), I found out that it was
originally registered for kingswell.com by NetBenefit
(<http://netbenefit.co.uk/>), a UK web host. going to
<http://www.kingswell.com> redirects to <http://www.anywhere.com>, which
is for sale ("the world's best domain name", "current offers in excess
of $8M").
This means that someone, somewhere must deal with any mail sent to
invalid addresses at these domains. Said someone would be in their full
rights to track you down (for example, by power searching for posts from
nos...@anywhere.co.uk at, e.g., deja.com), finding your ISP using your
message header with the tools mentioned above (Global Internet Ltd. of
the UK) and requesting that they cancel your account, which would, of
course, be a sad thing.
Graybags
Jens Ayton wrote in message <38C90FC0...@nettaxi.com>...
I would like to think that my ISP would take the lenient view, and an
admonishment would suffice.
Graybags - who, as you can see, has sorted it all out anyway.
Jens Ayton
>
> I would like to think that my ISP would take the lenient view, and an
> admonishment would suffice.
Probably, but one shouldn't rely on that sort of thing.
> Graybags - who, as you can see, has sorted it all out anyway.
Good. :-)
Graybags
Jens Ayton wrote in message <38C91596...@nettaxi.com>...
>Graybags wrote:
>>
>> I would like to think that my ISP would take the lenient view, and an
>> admonishment would suffice.
>
>Probably, but one shouldn't rely on that sort of thing.
>
Ok, enough is enough. I think we're getting a little bit lost about what is
going on here.
Let me introduce a hypothetical scenario.
I am walking down the street and some geezer says, "Oi, you - what's your
address ?"
I don't like the look of this particular fellow and so, rather than telling
him to p**s off and risk a beating, I make up a totally fictitious address,
"1, Nipple Drive", says I.
For some strange reason this happens again and again with different strange
men, and each time I reply with the fictitious 1, Nipple Drive.
Now unbeknown to me, in the neighbouring village, there happens to be a
Nipple Drive, and, unsurprisingly, the first house on the road is number 1.
Now here's the annoying bit, these hoodlums have been posting dog turds
through the letter box of 1, Nipple Drive.
A couple of weeks later my house is confiscated from me by the police. You
see I am clearly to blame for the upset to the residents of 1, Nipple Drive.
How likely is this scenario? I'll tell you - not at all !
In real life, two things would happen. 1 -The police would be fairly anxious
to trace the posters of the faeces, and punish them suitably. 2- the
home-owners of 1, Nipple Drive find out that I have been giving their
address falsely, and come and have a chat with me. I point out that I had no
idea there would be a Nipple Drive (beginning to sound like something the
women's institute get up to, to raise funds - probably would raise more
funds that an bring and buy sale too, but I digress) and promise not to use
this fictitious address again. Mr. and Mrs. Gotobed (yes, it is a real
surname in Yorkshire) say that they were surprised to find that there was a
Nipple Drive in their town as well, but preferred this particular house to
the one on Scrotum Avenue.
Police later areest a number of men who were attemping to escape from a
kennel compound by digging tunnels through the accumulated s**t, they are
cought when Rover caves in (Fido and Ben (sorry Mr. Wolfson, but it is a
very common name for dogs over here) are later discovered under the mess
hall - ta daaa™).
Now lets re-examine my case. I make up a fictitious nospam address, which
turns out to have a real registered owner, the real owner gets spammed and
complains to my ISP who terminate my account. I thnik not, you seem to be
forgetting just who is the villain of the peace here. The spammers should be
reported and removed from their servers. A quiet word in my ear and I change
my nospam address and everyone is happy.
I thank you for your kind attention.
Graybags
John Flynn
> Ok, enough is enough. I think we're getting a little bit lost about
> what is going on here.
> Let me introduce a hypothetical scenario.
[...]
> I thank you for your kind attention.
A round of applause for this man, for he has brought a little bit of
humour and entertainment back into The Apihna Arms that has been sorely
lacking in the past week... hurrah!
--
johnF
"Trochee, I think. Don't quote me on that."
-- APIHNA, Ben Wolfson, 6 Jan 2000
Polgara The Sorceress
<gb...@globalnet.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
[snip - hypothetically, of course...]
>Ok, enough is enough. I think we're getting a little bit lost
>about what is
>going on here.
>Let me introduce a hypothetical scenario.
>
>I am walking down the street and some geezer says, "Oi, you -
>what's your
>address ?"
>I don't like the look of this particular fellow and so, rather
>than telling
>him to p**s off and risk a beating, I make up a totally
>fictitious address,
>"1, Nipple Drive", says I.
So we should address your e-mail to:
gray...@1nippledrive.co.uk then???
>For some strange reason this happens again and again with
>different strange
>men, and each time I reply with the fictitious 1, Nipple Drive.
O-k-a-y... I'd suggest hanging around with a better class of
folk from now on...
>Now unbeknown to me, in the neighbouring village, there happens
>to be a
>Nipple Drive, and, unsurprisingly, the first house on the road
>is number 1.
That is rather surprising. I was betting on the first address,
being perhaps a smallish sort of house, being 1/2 Nipple
Drive. Boy was I wrong!
>Now here's the annoying bit, these hoodlums have been posting
>dog turds
>through the letter box of 1, Nipple Drive.
>
>A couple of weeks later my house is confiscated from me by the
>police. You
>see I am clearly to blame for the upset to the residents of 1,
>Nipple Drive.
Only if you were indeed posting the materials yourself... Or
setting them afire on the doorstep...
>Mr. and Mrs. Gotobed (yes, it is >a real
>surname in Yorkshire)
Mr. and Mrs. Getup disagree...
>say that they were surprised to find that there was a
>Nipple Drive in their town as well, but preferred this
>particular house to
>the one on Scrotum Avenue.
Oh definitely. Sees more light of day, you know...
- ta daaaâ„¢).
Impressive ending bit there! 10/10 I think!
--
Smilies!
Laury :->
Jens Ayton
>
> Jens Ayton wrote in message <38C91596...@nettaxi.com>...
> >Graybags wrote:
> >>
> >> I would like to think that my ISP would take the lenient view, and an
> >> admonishment would suffice.
> >
> >Probably, but one shouldn't rely on that sort of thing.
> >
>
> going on here.
> Let me introduce a hypothetical scenario.
>
> I am walking down the street and some geezer says, "Oi, you - what's your
> address ?"
False analogy. There are no regulations allowing people to request your
address in the street. However, Usenet is a formal protocol in which
anonymity is _specifically disallowed_, which you use at your choice and
discretion. Your ISP is expected to take responsibility for your use of
this protocol.
(Not that I actually *care*, mind you.)
John Flynn
> - ta daaaâ„¢).
Does anyone else see that as "- ta daaa" followed by a string of
satanic-looking characters?
I'll bet it's RemarQ doing its lovely magic (the site, apparently, reads
stuff in angled brackets in a weird fashion, too, although I've never
seen it for myself).
--
johnF
"He that will write well in any tongue must follow the counsel of
Aristotle: to speak as the common people do, to think as wise men do."
-- _Toxophilus_, Roger Ascham [1545]
Polgara The Sorceress
>
>Does anyone else see that as "- ta daaa" followed by a string of
>satanic-looking characters?
Only when this was quoted back to the NG did I see this. When I
saw it originally, both on RemarQ and via Netscape, I saw the
neato (tm) symbol. :-)
>I'll bet it's RemarQ doing its lovely magic (the site,
>apparently, reads
>stuff in angled brackets in a weird fashion, too, although I've
>never
>seen it for myself).
Well, I am getting a new ISP soon, so I won't need to use this
service and can make pretty neato messages in Netscape. (Yayyy!)
[1]
â„¢NOTE:
[1] That could be a double-edged sword as that means I'll have
more time for *more* postings... >;-> Hehehehehehe.
--
Smilies!
Laury :->
Today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness and
every tomorrow a vision of hope.
--Anonymous
Graybags
Jens Ayton wrote
<snip>
>Jens Ayton
I just knew you wouldn't be able to resist.
Graybags
John Flynn
> [1] That could be a double-edged sword as that means I'll have more
> time for *more* postings... >;-> Hehehehehehe.
Uh-oh. Someone is going to have to invent a number or concept that
means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a value
on how many posts you make.[1]
[1] This could be dramatic irony...
--
johnF
"A jest's prosperity lies in the ear / Of him that hears it,
never in the tongue / Of him that makes it."
-- _Love's Labour's Lost_, William Shakespeare
John Flynn
> means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a
Make that "more, much more, than infinite" instead, okay?
Steven M. O'Neill
>John Flynn wrote, incorrectly:
>
>> means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a
>
>Make that "more, much more, than infinite" instead, okay?
Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall,
Aleph-null bottles of beer,
You take one down, and pass it around,
Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall.
Ray Heindl
<38CD051F...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk>:
>Polgara The Sorceress wrote, in part:
>
>> [1] That could be a double-edged sword as that means I'll have more
>> time for *more* postings... >;-> Hehehehehehe.
>
>Uh-oh. Someone is going to have to invent a number or concept that
>means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a value
>on how many posts you make.[1]
I think the mathematicians have already taken care of this for you.
There are different degrees of infinitude, so to speak, which are
designated by Hebrew letters -- unless my brain has atrophied more than
I thought.
>[1] This could be dramatic irony...
Is that how you get rid of dramatic wrinkles?
--
Ray Heindl
James Farrar
<ste...@panix.com> writes
>>
>
>Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall,
>Aleph-null bottles of beer,
> You take one down, and pass it around,
>Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall.
That doesn't rhyme.
ITYM "And if one green bottle should accidentally fall there'd be"
--
James Farrar
John Ward
Polgara The Sorceress <laurelee...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Does anyone else see that as "- ta daaa" followed by a string of
> >satanic-looking characters?
> Only when this was quoted back to the NG did I see this. When I
> saw it originally, both on RemarQ and via Netscape, I saw the
> neato (tm) symbol. :-)
Like this one you mean?
--
John M Ward -- propping up the bar at the Apihna Arms
This is the group about its and it's --
those two small words that get on your wits.
It's also 'bout spells and spelling and grits,
and anything else to which one admits.
John Goodwin
WARNING
Language of a somewhat questionable nature follows.
Ten sticks of dynamite hanging on the wall
Ten sticks of dynamite hanging on the wall
And if one stick of dynamite should accidentally fall
There'd be no sticks of dynamite and NO FUCKING WALL !
Sorry, I know it shoud be vials of nitro-glycerine, but that just does not scan.
JG
Dr Robin Bignall
"James Farrar" <ja...@sfgiants22.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uQjHlAAk...@sfgiants22.freeserve.co.uk...
> In article <8aj3ke$ed1$1...@panix6.panix.com>, Steven M. O'Neill
> <ste...@panix.com> writes
> >John Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >>John Flynn wrote, incorrectly:
> >>
> >>> means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a
> >>
> >>Make that "more, much more, than infinite" instead, okay?
> >
> >Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall,
> >Aleph-null bottles of beer,
> > You take one down, and pass it around,
> >Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall.
>
> That doesn't rhyme.
>
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB... (docr...@cwcom.net)
Polgara The Sorceress
<john...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
>Like this one you mean? Â
Exactly the same, yet completely different. Except I saw no
little square, but the little â„¢ symbol. [1]
Has any noticed how the symbol-virus keeps growing?
â„¢NOTE:
[1] I realise/realize that I've just perpetuated the thing
again, haven't I? <heheheheheh>
Dr Robin Bignall
"John Goodwin" <J...@opticon.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:38cd60e4....@news.buyandsell.ie...
> ><ste...@panix.com> writes
> >>John Flynn <joh...@flynndins.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>John Flynn wrote, incorrectly:
> >>>
> >>>> means something like "more much than infinite" in order to put a
> >>>
> >>>Make that "more, much more, than infinite" instead, okay?
> >>
> >>Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall,
> >>Aleph-null bottles of beer,
> >> You take one down, and pass it around,
> >>Aleph-null bottles of beer on the wall.
> >
> >That doesn't rhyme.
> >
>
> WARNING
>
> Language of a somewhat questionable nature follows.
>
> Ten sticks of dynamite hanging on the wall
> Ten sticks of dynamite hanging on the wall
>
> And if one stick of dynamite should accidentally fall
>
> There'd be no sticks of dynamite and NO FUCKING WALL !
>
> Sorry, I know it shoud be vials of nitro-glycerine, but that just does not
scan.
>
> JG
>
>