Can I charge golf cart batteries with 12V charger?
Brian Elfert
batteries in series with a regular 12V auto battery charger, correct?
I bought two golf cart batteries a few weeks ago, but I have yet to
install them and I'm thinking I should trickle charge them a bit to keep
them in shape.
Also, how high should the water level be? Just up to the tops of the
plates, or higher than that?
Brian Elfert
A.J.S.
"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:3ed4bfd4$0$2586$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
> This is probably a stupid question, but I can charge two golf cart
> batteries in series with a regular 12V auto battery charger, correct?
>
> I bought two golf cart batteries a few weeks ago, but I have yet to
> install them and I'm thinking I should trickle charge them a bit to keep
> them in shape.
IMO, it's better to charge them separately than in series. But if they are
new and already have a decent charge then it should work just perfectly.
>
> Also, how high should the water level be? Just up to the tops of the
> plates, or higher than that?
>
Just to where the top of the plates are covered.
Brian Elfert
>IMO, it's better to charge them separately than in series. But if they are
>new and already have a decent charge then it should work just perfectly.
Unfortunately, I do not have a 6 volt charger, or I would do them
seperately. Once they are on the RV, they will always be charged at 12V
in series anyhow.
Brian Elfert
Mike
Brian,
Connect the + side of one of the 6V batteries to the - side of the other. Then
connect the battery charger to the empty + and - posts just as you would a 12V
battery. Charge the combination as a 12V battery.
Since your batteries are both new they are likely to be of equal condition and
12V charging should work well.
See http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm for correct wiring and
other useful deep cycle battery information.
Mike
Bill Martin
> batteries in series with a regular 12V auto battery charger, correct?
Yes, but... This is a normal way to charge the batteries, but they must be
moderately matched. Two new batteries of the same kind will work well
together. One new one and an old tired one will not necessarily share the
charge properly. Even worse, if one battery gets a shorted cell, then
charging them in series will likely over charge and burn up the good battery
eventually too.
Put them in series, but just keep an eye on the water level periodically to
verify that one is not consuming twice the water of the other.
> Also, how high should the water level be? Just up to the tops of the
> plates, or higher than that?
If you put the water level just to the tops of the plates, then it will
unavoidably be below the plates occasionally. When you look into the filler
hole, you'll see there is a tube that goes part way down into the battery.
My understanding is that the batteries should be filled to the very bottom of
the filler tube. This translates to maybe three quarters of an inch above
the plates.
Good luck....
Bill
Brian Elfert
>hole, you'll see there is a tube that goes part way down into the battery.
>My understanding is that the batteries should be filled to the very bottom of
>the filler tube. This translates to maybe three quarters of an inch above
>the plates.
I don't think the golf cart batteries from Sam's Club have filler tubes.
I'll have to verify this evening.
I'll probably add a little bit of distilled water as the water is exactly
at the tops of the plates now.
Brian Elfert
Alan Balmer
>Bill Martin <wy...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>hole, you'll see there is a tube that goes part way down into the battery.
>>My understanding is that the batteries should be filled to the very bottom of
>>the filler tube. This translates to maybe three quarters of an inch above
>>the plates.
>
>I don't think the golf cart batteries from Sam's Club have filler tubes.
>I'll have to verify this evening.
Mine do. Standard, like every other fillable battery I've seen.
There's a slot at the side of the tube, and the arrangement makes it
easy to see when the bottom of the tube is reached. Brian's
description is the way I've always understood is proper.
>
>I'll probably add a little bit of distilled water as the water is exactly
>at the tops of the plates now.
>
>Brian Elfert
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerc...@att.net
SOROBON
I bought 6 volt golf cart batteries from a dealer in Portland, OR. The advice
they gave me, did not match the manufactors web site. Once the batteries are
installed in your RV they will be charged in series with voltages designed for
a 12 volt batteries.
I fill my batteries with distilled or deminerialised water designed for irons
batteries etc, be carful of drinking water some have menerals added for taste.
The level I use is 1/2" below the topof the fill hole. If you only cover the
plates you will shorten the battery life because the electrolyte level will
drop below the plates
Sorobon
Neon John
>
>"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote in message
>news:3ed4bfd4$0$2586$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
>> This is probably a stupid question, but I can charge two golf cart
>> batteries in series with a regular 12V auto battery charger, correct?
>>
>> I bought two golf cart batteries a few weeks ago, but I have yet to
>> install them and I'm thinking I should trickle charge them a bit to keep
>> them in shape.
>
>IMO, it's better to charge them separately than in series. But if they are
>new and already have a decent charge then it should work just perfectly.
It makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. Six 2 volt cells in series may
be charged with a 12 volt charger regardless of whether they're in 1, 2 or 6
cases.
Brian, if you have any large 12 volt loads such as an inverter I predict you
will be disappointed with the golf cart batteries. I'll explain.
Two years ago I accepted the advice here in this group without thinking too
much about it and replaced my two paralleled group 27 batteries with a pair of
golf cart batteries. I immediately noticed several differences. One, anytime
I operated a heavy load the voltage sagged MUCH more than it did with the old
batteries. My inverter would trip off long before the batteries were
discharged because of this. I'm speaking of terminal voltage and not at the
other end of a length of wire. I could no longer fast charge them. The
internal impedance was so high that they simply would not accept a fast charge
without heating. My cordless battery charger could charge the old pair in an
hour. It took several hours with the new one. Cranking the genny would drop
the voltage so much that the inverter would trip. I got in the habit of
hitting the interconnect switch before cranking so that the start battery
could do the job.
I did some research like I should have done in the beginning. I learned that
golf cart batteries are optimized for long, moderate rate discharges and are
NOT designed for heavy loads. This is a mis-application. In RVs that don't
have heavy loads and don't need to fast charge it is not a problem.
I put up with this for 2 years. A few weeks ago the ammonia leaked out of my
'fridge. While I have it off to be rebuilt I installed a small electric
refrigerator and a 400 watt inverter. I did my first long trip last weekend.
According to my E-meter I could barely recover 50 amp-hours from these
batteries before the voltage dropped so low the inverter tripped. Enough is
enough.
Last night I replaced those with two 12 volters in parallel. Sam's in Atlanta
now has Group 36 (115 ah) Stowaways for $65. Ahhhh. I topped them off with
the Cordless battery charger in under 15 minutes. With the fridge and several
lights on since last night the E-meter says about -150 amp-hours and the
inverter and lights are still humming away. The voltage doesn't drop under 12
volts even when cranking the genny.
These two batteries in parallel give me 10 more amp-hours than the golf cart
batteries. No big deal. The big deal is that I can actually USE the
capacity. I think I've figured out where I can locate a third battery. Being
able to use an odd number of batteries is yet another advantage of paralleling
12 volt batteries.
If you're going to run nothing more than a few lights the golf cart batteries
will do fine. But if you want to use an inverter, start a generator or other
high drain loads I recommend taking those back and getting a pair (or more) of
the big Stowaways.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Brian Elfert
>I did some research like I should have done in the beginning. I learned that
>golf cart batteries are optimized for long, moderate rate discharges and are
>NOT designed for heavy loads. This is a mis-application. In RVs that don't
>have heavy loads and don't need to fast charge it is not a problem.
I'm only running small loads for long periods. I don't even have an
inverter.
Hopefully, the golf cart batteries will work better than the single group
24 battery I replaced.
Brian Elfert
Will Sill
prose:
>Brian, if you have any large 12 volt loads such as an inverter I predict you
>will be disappointed with the golf cart batteries.
Bafflegab snipped.
I remember (again) why I have frequently plonked the above egocentric
gas bag.
I suppose NJ may not be familiar with the primary application of golf
car batteries, but it's to power (who'd a guessed?!) golf cars.
Carts, if you insist. That's a large load by any rational
interpretation if the word. True, they are not designed as starting
batteries, which commonly see 4-500amps, but my 4 golf car batteries
have easily powered our inverter on a regular basis for going on 5
years. Without breaking a sweat.
I'm sure the owners of thousands of high-dollar coaches fitted with
golf car batteries (both when new and as replacements) will be
surprised to learn how lousy they are according the all-knowing Neon
John! Not.
EGAD!
Will ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Before flaming, pause. I post to help rv'ers and annoy the snot
out of morons, idjits, fools and bozos - - and to irk their ilk.
Often, I do both at once.
DSteiner51
Thank you for sharing your experience. I've looked at amp hour ratings and
done some math. Same results. I use 12 volt but was afraid to state it here
because of "expert" knowledge.
DSteiner
Jon Porter
"Will Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:ckscdvohvlub9mmhp...@4ax.com...
> Neon John <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote this priceless
> prose:
>
> >Brian, if you have any large 12 volt loads such as an inverter I predict
you
> >will be disappointed with the golf cart batteries.
>
> Bafflegab snipped.
-- a bit of it plugged back in --
Two years ago I accepted the advice here in this group without thinking too
much about it and replaced my two paralleled group 27 batteries with a pair
of
golf cart batteries.
>
> I remember (again) why I have frequently plonked the above egocentric
> gas bag.
>
> I suppose NJ may not be familiar with the primary application of golf
> car batteries, but it's to power (who'd a guessed?!) golf cars.
> Carts, if you insist. That's a large load by any rational
> interpretation if the word. True, they are not designed as starting
> batteries, which commonly see 4-500amps, but my 4 golf car batteries
> have easily powered our inverter on a regular basis for going on 5
> years. Without breaking a sweat.
I expected this response. I wonder if the difference here might be 4 of
Will's batteries compared to 2 of Neon Johns?
midwesterner
>
> Last night I replaced those with two 12 volters in parallel. Sam's in Atlanta
> now has Group 36 (115 ah) Stowaways for $65. Ahhhh. I topped them off with
>
> John
How do you know both batteries are fully charged? One battery will
always be charged more than the others when connected in parallel.
Neon John
<snippity - sorry I just can't allow myself to repeat that person's "stuff">
>I expected this response. I wonder if the difference here might be 4 of
>Will's batteries compared to 2 of Neon Johns?
>
Well of course! That would cut the internal impedance of the whole battery
bank in half. Not willing to strap my batteries, along with the kitchen sink,
the still and who knows what, on top of my rig Beverly Hillbilly style, 4
batteries are not an option. Besides, if I had room for 4 batteries, 4 12
volters in series would cut the impedance in half again.
As part of my after-the-fact research, I stopped in at the local golf cart
dealer a couple of blocks over. He's a regular customer so he didn't act so
strange when I started asking technical questions. Such as starting and
running amps. Well, just a little strange. He didn't really know so I
retrieved my DC amp clamp, he dragged out a cart and we tested.
For a 48 volt cart with "greens" tires (small block tread), the more common
setup, the running draw on level ground is around 10 amps. Momentary peak
during starting is as much as 60 amps but that lasts only a second. The
controller limits the acceleration current to 50 amps, which is also the max
sustained draw uphill. I'm sure this varies somewhat by brand (his is EZGO or
something like that) but this is probably typical. That's a LONG ways from
the 100 amps a 1kw inverter draws at full load. With several lights on, I
routinely see on the E-meter a sustained draw of >100 amps when I run the
microwave oven. I can also routinely see >30 amps with several lights, the
TV, the VCR and my laptop operating.
I guess that if one is making a wild-assed guess instead of using instruments,
one's results might vary :-)
Another way to tell the difference if you don't have any instruments is to
look at the Peukert exponent for the various batteries. Most of the reputable
companies either publish this value on their web pages or will supply it upon
request. One can also compute the exponent given the Ah, the reserve amps and
the CCA ratings. This computation involves the use of a logarithm so it's
probably over the head of our resident "engineer"..... sorry, I couldn't
resist :-)
Peukert expresses the battery's loss of capacity with discharge rate and
indirectly indicates internal impedance. An exponent closer to 1.0 is best.
My new batteries compute 1.18. The golf cart batteries were spec'd at 1.26.
BIG difference. Frankly, I don't believe the value for my new batteries. 1.18
is in Hawker Genesis AGM territory. I think Stowaway may be engaging in a
little specsmanship. I'll know after my first trip when I'll actually measure
their performance.
Neon John
You're confusing series and parallel operation. Two batteries of the same
chemistry and terminal voltage can be paralleled with no regard to the
individual capacities. Series batteries must be of the same capacity.
An extreme example - I can parallel the 4 AH 12 volt gell cell from my Metz
photoflash and the battery in my motorhome and both will charge at the
appropriate rate if the terminal voltage is correct. In fact I do that quite
often using a cigarette lighter cord to charge the photoflash battery.
You can also plug a portable start pack into a cig lighter to charge it.
These packs contain 12 volt batteries in the 12-30 ah range. I also do that
frequently. I carry one of those Xantrex PortaWatz units (battery pack and
inverter inside one case) with me camping to run my amplified speakers,
lights, fan, etc at the camp site. Easier than stringing out an extension
cord. I charge it either by connecting it to the house 12 volt power if I'm
on shore power or connecting it to the house batteries if I'm using my
Cordless Battery Charger while boondocking. The house batteries can draw as
much as 150 amps from the charger while the PortaWatz draws at most 15 amps.
How do I know they're charged? The microprocessor-based controller that I
designed to control my Cordless Battery Charger monitors both the charge
current and voltage and the battery temperature via a thermistor probe as it
implements a multi-stage intelligent charge algorithm. This algorithm is
similar to the classic three stage charge that smart chargers such as the
Xantrex/Heart inverter/converters do. The first stage is current regulated to
a specified max charge current. The second stage is reached when the terminal
voltage reaches a specified value. The charge transitions to constant
voltage, decreasing current. This continues until either the charge current
drops to less than 5% of the initial part of the second stage rate or the
temperature of the electrolyte shows a sharp increase. This transitions to
the third or trickle stage by means of a reduced charge voltage. The
specified values depend on the battery chemistry and temperature and are
derived from look-up tables.
The second way of knowing they're charged is by watching my E-meter (now
called the Link-10 since Xantrex bought them out). It actually measures the
battery's charge acceptance efficiency and indicates via a flashing LED when
full charge is achieved.
Dapper Dave
>Two years ago I accepted the advice here in this group without thinking too
>much about it and replaced my two paralleled group 27 batteries with a pair of
>golf cart batteries. I immediately noticed several differences.
NJ:
Are you saying that you replaced two 12V batteries with two 6V
batteries?
--------------
Dapper Dave
expur...@hotmail.com
A.J.S.
"Stan Birch" <birc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ed6540b...@news.netrover.com...
> >"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
> >> This is probably a stupid question, but I can charge two golf cart
> >> batteries in series with a regular 12V auto battery charger, correct?
>
> >> I bought two golf cart batteries a few weeks ago, but I have yet to
> >> install them and I'm thinking I should trickle charge them a bit to
keep
> >> them in shape.
> >
> >IMO, it's better to charge them separately than in series. But if they
are
> >new and already have a decent charge then it should work just perfectly.
>
>
> For sure, you asked a totally stooopid question, and earned an
> ever-well-deserved, totally stooopid answer.
>
Fuck off Stan, what have you ever contributed besides being a stooopid
jack-ass.
A.J.S.
that
> golf cart batteries are optimized for long, moderate rate discharges and
are
> NOT designed for heavy loads. This is a mis-application. In RVs that
don't
> have heavy loads and don't need to fast charge it is not a problem.
A golf cart is not a heavy load?
Rich Pierce
bottom of the filler tube/ring.
This is the standard method for 6 volt golf cart batteries.
Don't worry about charging two batteries on 12 volts. Golf car chargers charge six
at a time. You can always separate the batteries and test them individually. If
one is bad, replace it.
Radical
Larrie Malobenski
>Fuck off Stan, what have you ever contributed besides being a stooopid
>jack-ass.
How to chase an ambulance???