Help how can I save my drowned Honda eu1000
Euphoria37
in the preparation I thought I would put the honda inside the camper to store.
When I lift the cover of the storage bin it had cracked in a major rain storm
we had last week in Califorinia and the water was 2/3rds up the Honda fully
drowned.
Please, please, please what can I do to rescue it. It's less than a year old
and we really need it since we are fulltimers and it's our only back up
electric source.
What can I do immediately to decrease the damage or is this a lost cause.
Kindest Regards,
Laurie
Doug Stover
>eupho...@aol.com (Euphoria37)
> wrote:
>Kindest Regards,
>Laurie
Drain the oil, take out the spark plug (s), remove filters, partially
dissemble if need be to ensure all the electronics are dry.
New oil, filters, fuel, and give it a whirl.
I would run it for a short time then change the oil again.
Euphoria37
letting it dry out for 2 weeks before starting. Or getting oil into the engine.
Right now I'm drying it indoors with a fan and I need to know the next step
because I need to catch a plane tomorrow. What would happen if I just let it
sit like this for 2 weeks until I return from my business trip. I don't want to
ruin my honda if I can save it which it sounds like I can but I'm also
pressured with having to leave on this trip.
If I remove the spark plug and pull the starter cord to get any remaining oil
out of the cylinders will that ruin the generator because the electronics might
still be wet? Please advise.
Thanks to all for the immediate and caring advice.
Laurie
Lone Haranguer
B. Call the Honda dealer to ask if he can fix it or give it the last
rites.
LZ
Neon John
what it does to the electronics. The engine is rather straightforward. Drain
the oil, carb and gas. New oil, new gas and if there is any water present
when you remove the spark plug, some oil in the plug hole. Turn it over a few
times with the starter with the plug out to distribute the oil. Turn the
whole generator upside down, sideways, etc to distribute the new oil on all
the internal parts.
The water in the electronics presents two separate problems - the water is
conductive when it is still there and the residue left after it evaporates is
also conductive. Heating the unit will get rid of the water but not the
residue. If the electronics are potted, there will be no problem. There is,
however, the problem of water getting in the windings and leaving the residue.
There is the additional problem, since the alternator is inside the flywheel,
of water being trapped against the stator and creating enough rust to lock the
flywheel.
The most immediate problem is to get rid of the water to stop the rust. heat
the unit by whatever means are available. A hair dryer and a large bag, if
nothing else is available. The unit should become very hot to the touch and
should be held at that temperature for several hours. make sure there is no
gas in the unit while heating. Take the oil filler out so that any water
vapor inside the engine can escape.
This stops the progress of damage but does not reverse any damage already
caused nor does it address the conductive residue problem. Addressing these
problems will require partial disassembly. Someone must inspect the
electronics to see if they are potted or conformal coated. If not, the boards
should be washed in pure grain alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor store)
and then baked. The alternator windings should be inspected for residue and
meggered to detect electrical leakage. If there is any, wash the windings in
PGA and bake.
Many honda connectors can trap water so I'd want to break open each connection
and inspect for water. Again, washing with PGA and baking addresses the
problem.
Baking involves holding the part above the boiling point of water (212 deg F)
for several hours. I use a large domestic oven in my shop for that purpose
and bake at about 250 deg.
Unless you can do this sort of work yourself, it may be cheaper to just
replace the unit. If you're willing to replace the unit if necessary, then
you can gamble and just do the engine stuff above, then heat the unit for a
few hours and try it out. If it works, you got lucky. If not, then buy the
new one.
A little bit less of a gamble is to do the engine stuff, heat the unit for a
few hours, then open the unit up and megger (or have someone megger) the
alternator stator. If it passes muster, then the unit will likely work.
John
---
John De Armond
johngdDO...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd (old)
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/ (new)
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Ben Hogland
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:tb09tugqdtbbiom3h...@4ax.com...
Someone must inspect the
> electronics to see if they are potted or conformal coated. If not, the
boards
> should be washed in pure grain alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor
store)
> and then baked.
Pure grain alcohol, eh? I have to disagree. I'd never seen the need to do
that and if anything that stands the possibility of ruining the laminate on
the boards. It is NOT normal procedure, industry wide, for cleaning residue
off boards. Residue can be conductive but that depends on the residue. Even
if it was sitting in dirty water, washing in soap and water is all I would
recommend. Chances are, it doesn't even need that.
Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on the
newsgroup. Best to take it to a dealer/shop for them to fix it up so you
don't take some wrong advice here and screw it up even worse...
Ben
@Wade
"Ben Hogland" <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar21qm$ejkf5$1...@ID-62937.news.dfncis.de...
>
>
> Pure grain alcohol, eh? I have to disagree. I'd never seen the need to do
> that and if anything that stands the possibility of ruining the laminate
on
> the boards. It is NOT normal procedure, industry wide, for cleaning
residue
> off boards. Residue can be conductive but that depends on the residue.
Even
> if it was sitting in dirty water, washing in soap and water is all I would
> recommend. Chances are, it doesn't even need that.
>
> Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on the
> newsgroup. Best to take it to a dealer/shop for them to fix it up so you
> don't take some wrong advice here and screw it up even worse...
>
> Ben
I like that eh of yours its so Canadian eh. Seriously thought what Ben told
you is correct
Wade
Guess Who?
It's nice to see you back on the board again. I worried about those
twisters scattering your restaurant all over the state! It's horrible,
how much suffering, and loss, the recent storms caused back
there....................
Unless those folks with the marinated Honda generator, have oodles of
time, they'd be better off buying a new genset.
Too bad they can't trade it to you, on credit at the pig palace....
You could probably turn the deal into another SMS merit badge, by
creating a machine out of it, that could make cole slaw - out of old
newspapers!
Don
Neon John
wrote:
>
>"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>news:tb09tugqdtbbiom3h...@4ax.com...
> Someone must inspect the
>> electronics to see if they are potted or conformal coated. If not, the
>boards
>> should be washed in pure grain alcohol (PGA)(Everclear from the liquor
>store)
>> and then baked.
>
>
>Pure grain alcohol, eh? I have to disagree. I'd never seen the need to do
>that and if anything that stands the possibility of ruining the laminate on
>the boards. It is NOT normal procedure, industry wide, for cleaning residue
>off boards. Residue can be conductive but that depends on the residue. Even
>if it was sitting in dirty water, washing in soap and water is all I would
>recommend. Chances are, it doesn't even need that.
You know, Ben, I never post any procedure like that which I have not already
used. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. There is, of
course, no "industry wide cleaning standard". PGA is the standard for
cleaning boards in the nuclear industry, particularly boards involving very
high impedance circuits. I evaluated the various solvents for such board
cleaning for TVA back in the 70s. PGA yielded the lowest leakage result of
anything I tested, including the fancy freons that generally aren't available
now. As for damaging the laminate, God, how can I keep from laughing?
The worst part is recommending soap and water. This ain't no controlled
environment PCB assembly line and the components don't still have their
assembly seals. A little PGA inside a relay can or under a cap does no harm,
in sharp contrast to what highly conductive soap residue would do. As
important, if the standing water had an oil film on it (with a submerged
generator? Banish the thought), soap and water would have little to no
effect. Crazy advice.
I have quite a bit of experience in recovering dunked generators by virtue of
my moonlighting in my friend's electric motor shop. Said shop has the contract
for the local utility. They tend to drop portable generators down in ditches
filled with water, sewer, etc with alarming frequency. I outlined what we do
in the shop (including cleaning with PGA, preceeded by stoddard solvent if the
dunking involved a lot of grease) with one exception. We normally finish off
a stator with a VPI dip-and-bake. I made a wild assed assumption that she'd
not have the dip chambers and bake out ovens. I'm sure she'll correct me if
I'm wrong.
Just out of curiosity, Ben, how many dunked gennys have you successfully
repaired?
>
>Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on the
>newsgroup.
You're right on that point. Your post is a perfect example.
>Best to take it to a dealer/shop for them to fix it up so you
>don't take some wrong advice here and screw it up even worse...
Reflecting on some of the stuff I've seen come out of local small engine
shops, I can only shake my head and say "yaaaa, riiiight!" The least you
could do if you're going to send her to a shop is to recommend an actual honda
authorized repair depot that employs Honda trained and certified mechanics.
John
Neon John
wrote:
> Neon
> It's nice to see you back on the board again. I worried about those
>twisters scattering your restaurant all over the state! It's horrible,
>how much suffering, and loss, the recent storms caused back
>there....................
That was a few counties over. We just happened to be out in that area on our
first trip in my mom's new MH. Missed the tornados. Just got some gentle
rocking of the rig and a LOT of rain..
> Unless those folks with the marinated Honda generator, have oodles of
>time, they'd be better off buying a new genset.
yep.
> Too bad they can't trade it to you, on credit at the pig palace....
>You could probably turn the deal into another SMS merit badge, by
>creating a machine out of it, that could make cole slaw - out of old
>newspapers!
:-) I HAVE been wanting to get my hands on an EU1000 with a defunct
inverter. I want to install a different controller of my design to turn it
into a quick charger for my EVs. I'm too SMS to actually buy a new one to
hack on :-)
Of course, the cole slaw chopper is an interesting alternative. Hmmm.
Mike
Euphoria37 wrote:
>
> Ouch! I am getting ready to leave on a business trip for 2 weeks tomorrow and
> in the preparation I thought I would put the honda inside the camper to store.
> When I lift the cover of the storage bin it had cracked in a major rain storm
> we had last week in Califorinia and the water was 2/3rds up the Honda fully
> drowned.
>
> Please, please, please what can I do to rescue it. It's less than a year old
> and we really need it since we are fulltimers and it's our only back up
> electric source.
Personally, I'd call Honda at (800) 426-7701 and ask them.
Mike
Pete Dumbleton
You're getting lots of advice on restoration, so I'll not touch that,
except were I without solvents and ovens and such, I would do the
mechanical stuf recommended ASAP after flushing the electronics with
the cleanest water I could find at a supermarket (prolly not gonna
make it worse by getting it wet again and would reduce the
water-borne, non-petroleum residue) and then run the crap out of it to
get it hot, like one does with an outboard that's been dunked when it
wasn't running. The more it sits, the more it rusts...
On the subject of prevention, on one of my small fiber glass trailer
groups, one of the guys built a really nice box of aluminum diamond
plate to house his genset and battery on the tongue of his trailer.
He left the bottom open to disperse gasses, which also has the effect
of the genset not sitting in a bucket, even if it leaks a lot. If the
water level rises enuf to get the genset, it's also gotten the inside
of the trailer and the bearings, etc.
BTW, he even made a hatch to reach the starting stuf from the side, so
the genset stays hidden in the box and chained to the frame so it is
secure and unadvertised except in use.
Pete
Cass
I have used alcohol for years in dispersing water. It mixes with the water
and evaporates more readily than just water alone.
John's advice on the oil and heating is very good advice, indeed.
Grain alcohol, while perhaps being the best, is not absolutely necessary as
plain isopropyl alcohol is fine, too.
Denatured alcohol, could render some plastics tacky.
Cass
Hogland is way off-base here.
"Neon John" <johngdDO...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:g1h9tuksdn5l3flhd...@4ax.com...
Ben Hogland
> You know, Ben, I never post any procedure like that which I have not
already
> used. Frankly, you don't know what you're talking about. There is, of
> course, no "industry wide cleaning standard". PGA is the standard for
> cleaning boards in the nuclear industry, particularly boards involving
very
> high impedance circuits. I evaluated the various solvents for such board
> cleaning for TVA back in the 70s. PGA yielded the lowest leakage result
of
> anything I tested, including the fancy freons that generally aren't
available
> now. As for damaging the laminate, God, how can I keep from laughing?
Might be true for the boards and components you've washed. Fact is some
types of boards and some types of components can be damage with using a
Alcohol whether you know it or not.
> The worst part is recommending soap and water. This ain't no controlled
> environment PCB assembly line and the components don't still have their
> assembly seals. A little PGA inside a relay can or under a cap does no
harm,
> in sharp contrast to what highly conductive soap residue would do. As
> important, if the standing water had an oil film on it (with a submerged
> generator? Banish the thought), soap and water would have little to no
> effect. Crazy advice.
Soap, yes.. Commonly known as a saponifier. Can be purchased at many places
specifically for washing circuit boards. It is all I would recommend he wash
it in.
> Just out of curiosity, Ben, how many dunked gennys have you successfully
> repaired?
No generators but before my electronics days, I worked in a electric motor
repair shop for several years and have gone through and repaired the most
contaminated motors that you can imagine.
> >Laurie, do yourself a favor, don't believe everything you read here on
the
> >newsgroup.
>
> You're right on that point. Your post is a perfect example.
I think your arragance is a bit much.
Ben
Alan Balmer
<benho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Soap, yes.. Commonly known as a saponifier. Can be purchased at many places
>specifically for washing circuit boards. It is all I would recommend he wash
>it in.
(I managed the engineering PCB production lab for a major process
control company some years ago.)
Soaps and detergents are saponifiers, of course, but I would not
recommend using household soap to clean a PCB. Specialized saponifiers
and various other solvents are used under controlled conditions in the
manufacturing process, mostly to remove flux after soldering. Don't
use soap at home.
Probably the best bet is to find an electronics supply store. They
will have material specifically designed to clean assembled circuit
boards, probably in convenient spray cans.
Ben Hogland
"Alan Balmer" <alba...@att.net> wrote in message
news:p1matus17ii7fcvp7...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Nov 2002 11:57:23 -0800, "Ben Hogland"
> <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Soap, yes.. Commonly known as a saponifier. Can be purchased at many
places
> >specifically for washing circuit boards. It is all I would recommend he
wash
> >it in.
>
> (I managed the engineering PCB production lab for a major process
> control company some years ago.)
>
> Soaps and detergents are saponifiers, of course, but I would not
> recommend using household soap to clean a PCB. Specialized saponifiers
> and various other solvents are used under controlled conditions in the
> manufacturing process, mostly to remove flux after soldering. Don't
> use soap at home.
Agreed. I never meant household soap. I should have been more clear on that
when I initially mentioned it but, again, I was recommending he take it to a
repair facility to do that. It should be a saponifier intended for circuit
board washing as I mentioned above.
Ben
@Wade
>
> > You're right on that point. Your post is a perfect example.
>
> I think your arragance is a bit much.
>
> Ben
>
This would explain the failure at Tree Island, naturally the self proclaimed
experts found some poor SOB Rotorooter guy to blame for the failure of the
reactors cooling system.
Wade
Cass
Cass
"Ben Hogland" <benho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ar3mue$evjk3$1...@ID-62937.news.dfncis.de...