Oxidation/polymerization of polyunsaturates (was Re: alpha lipoic acid eliminates wrinkles?)
Steve Harris
>I wonder if 4-8 grams is enough. A tablespoon of flax oil weighs around 14
>grams. Just make sure it is properly preserved. It is much more susceptable
>to peroxidation than normal oils.
Yep. I have this picture of people applying enough flax oil (paint thinner)
to their faces to give themselves a permanent lacquer-job, and come out
looking like Goldie Hawn and Meril Streep in _Death Becomes Her_.
This free-radical driven cross-linking and oxidation reaction in linseed oil
is what drives the "drying" of oil based paints (and what starts spontaneous
fires in thinner-soaked rags). It's a very interesting reaction, as the
polymer finish which is left is very tough and impermiant. One of the few
things that mummies have in common besides being jerked by a lot of
salt-packing, is in being lacquered by linseed oil painting afterwards.
The only stuff I know of that oxidizes and polymerizes in this way faster
than alpha linolenic acid, is docosahexaenoic acid, (DHA) the major lipid
in brains. If you ever wondered at why the Eskimos tanned and preserved
hides by pounding brains into the raw skin sides, now you know. It's
basically a super lacquer, and it dries into a polymer which keeps oxygen
out in much the same way as for painted walls and mummies. Same mechanism.
Steve
--
I welcome email from any being clever enough to fix my address. It's open
book. A prize to the first spambot that passes my Turing test.
Uncle Al
>
> DB wrote in message ...
>
> >I wonder if 4-8 grams is enough. A tablespoon of flax oil weighs around 14
> >grams. Just make sure it is properly preserved. It is much more susceptable
> >to peroxidation than normal oils.
>
> Yep. I have this picture of people applying enough flax oil (paint thinner)
> to their faces to give themselves a permanent lacquer-job, and come out
> looking like Goldie Hawn and Meril Streep in _Death Becomes Her_.
>
> This free-radical driven cross-linking and oxidation reaction in linseed oil
> is what drives the "drying" of oil based paints (and what starts spontaneous
> fires in thinner-soaked rags). It's a very interesting reaction, as the
> polymer finish which is left is very tough and impermiant. One of the few
> things that mummies have in common besides being jerked by a lot of
> salt-packing, is in being lacquered by linseed oil painting afterwards.
>
> The only stuff I know of that oxidizes and polymerizes in this way faster
> than alpha linolenic acid, is docosahexaenoic acid, (DHA) the major lipid
> in brains. If you ever wondered at why the Eskimos tanned and preserved
> hides by pounding brains into the raw skin sides, now you know. It's
> basically a super lacquer, and it dries into a polymer which keeps oxygen
> out in much the same way as for painted walls and mummies. Same mechanism.
Native wisdom: Every animal has the brains to tan its own hide. One
wonders about incidence of kuru and Kreutzfeld-Jacob syndrome amongst
the natives.
Take your 500 mg of Vitamin C, 400 IU of Vitamin E, and a multivitamin
after dinner (asssuming no idiosyncratic medical anomalies or
pathologies). Be careful you do not purchase any bottle sporting the
word "natural."
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
Mark Thorson
> Take your 500 mg of Vitamin C, 400 IU of Vitamin E, and a multivitamin
> after dinner (asssuming no idiosyncratic medical anomalies or
> pathologies). Be careful you do not purchase any bottle sporting the
> word "natural."
But Al, don't you remember telling us how dangerous fumed silica
is? That "silicon dioxide" listed as an ingredient _is_ fumed silica.
It's used as a glidant, for making the powders flow through the
tabletting or encapsulation equipment more easily.
Also, some people have trouble sleeping if they take their
vitamins in the evening instead of the morning. It seems to
make the brain more "busy".
DB
...
> Also, some people have trouble sleeping if they take their
> vitamins in the evening instead of the morning. It seems to
> make the brain more "busy".
Yeah. That's the B-complex. Not sure which of them.
Uncle Al
You can eat fumed silica, you should not inhale it.
I earned some money as a student volunteering my brain for
electroencephalographic studies. I was uniformly paid off and told
not to return. An awful lot of you folks have horribly aberrant
wiring compared to baseline Uncle Al.
Happiness is hearing an encephalographer in the adjacent room say in
rising pitch and volume, "What the Hell..."
Ed McBride
> > Uncle Al wrote:
> >
> > > Take your 500 mg of Vitamin C, 400 IU of Vitamin E, and a multivitamin
> > > after dinner
Except my sister, a VERY good internal-medicine doc, suggests 800-1000 IU of
E and one aspirin, anywhere from the 81 mg dosage to the 325 mg standard
one.
Ed
Uncle Al
Oil-soluble vitamins are inefficiently excreted. OD on Vitamin E
leads to blood clotting disorders and visual impairment (competition
with Vitamin A). Aspirin causes gastric bleeding no matter how
administered, including IV.
Adherence to self-medication outside the envelope puts you at risk for
idiosyncratic reactions. RDA's are calculated two standard deviations
above deficiency disease onset in rats. Chronic megadosing is no more
clever than eating just enough to avoid deficiency disease. You want
your auto engine oil level to be topped off, not overfilled or
bottomed out.
DB
> Ed McBride wrote:
>>
>> > > Uncle Al wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Take your 500 mg of Vitamin C, 400 IU of Vitamin E, and a
>> > > > multivitamin after dinner
>>
>> Except my sister, a VERY good internal-medicine doc, suggests 800-1000 IU
>> of E and one aspirin, anywhere from the 81 mg dosage to the 325 mg
>> standard one.
>> Ed
>
> Oil-soluble vitamins are inefficiently excreted. OD on Vitamin E
> leads to blood clotting disorders and visual impairment (competition
> with Vitamin A). Aspirin causes gastric bleeding no matter how
> administered, including IV.
Not at those dosages.
> Adherence to self-medication outside the envelope puts you at risk for
> idiosyncratic reactions. RDA's are calculated two standard deviations
> above deficiency disease onset in rats.
Guess they made a mistake. RDAs (now called DV's, by the way) are not
enough to prevent heart disease or birth defects or the plethora of free
radical-related illnesses.
Chronic megadosing is no more
> clever than eating just enough to avoid deficiency disease. You want
> your auto engine oil level to be topped off, not overfilled or
> bottomed out.
I feel pretty clever, though. Must be all the supplements.
Martin Banschbach PhD
> above deficiency disease onset in rats
Minor point, it's two standard deviations above the mean for human data, not
rat data.
--
Marty B. "You are what you eat."
http://centernet.okstate.edu/nutrition/index.html
The above website is for educational purposes
only. Material in this website and posted material
represents the opinion of Martin Banschbach,
Ph.D. and does not reflect Oklahoma State
University policy or position on nutrition.
Issues regarding the diagnosis and treatment
of human disease can not be addressed
by material in the above website or by
Martin Banschbach, Ph.D.
Any comments made by Martin
Banschbach, Ph.D. are invalid unless
confirmed by your personal physician.
allana
wrote:
>
>> > Uncle Al wrote:
>> >
>> > > Take your 500 mg of Vitamin C, 400 IU of Vitamin E, and a multivitamin
>> > > after dinner
>
if you are taking vitamin e..why are you taking aspirin..vit e is just
as good, with no side effects..vit e should be less than 1gram ( 800
iu ) is about max .( take 400 iu 2 times daily)
MUGSYŠ
wrote:
>> Except my sister, a VERY good internal-medicine doc, suggests 800-1000 IU of
>> E and one aspirin, anywhere from the 81 mg dosage to the 325 mg standard
>> one.
>> Ed
>
>Oil-soluble vitamins are inefficiently excreted. OD on Vitamin E
>leads to blood clotting disorders and visual impairment (competition
>with Vitamin A).
This brings up a point that you never see Vit E past 400 UI on the
shelves.
Thanks for that bit of data re: competing with A...
mcgill.
DB
Actually there are 800, 1000, and 1500 IU softgels available on some store
shelves. I take around 1000 IU natural E and 200 mg gamma E. Generally
speaking, the more supplements one takes the better, imo. Call it a hunch
based on a shitload of animal data.
Steve Harris
Uncle Al wrote in message <3C88E535...@hate.spam.net>...
>Oil-soluble vitamins are inefficiently excreted. OD on Vitamin E
>leads to blood clotting disorders and visual impairment (competition
>with Vitamin A).
Nah. There's been large studies of E at doses of 1600 IU a day (the
Alzheimer's prevention studies) for several years. Nobody had problems with
clotting or vision. This is a theoretical problem but only in people who are
very marginal in vitamin K status, and in practice that takes Coumadin.
Even then you can compensate for vitamin E taking, so long as the patient
doesn't change routine.
Vitamin E is oil soluble but doesn't behave like it in excretion. If you
take a lot, the excess is rapidly converted to water soluble metabolites
which are conjugated with gluconate by the liver, and excreted in the urine.
SBH
DB
> Vitamin E is oil soluble but doesn't behave like it in excretion. If you
> take a lot, the excess is rapidly converted to water soluble metabolites
> which are conjugated with gluconate by the liver, and excreted in the
> urine.
Interesting. Above what amount of vitamin e is an 'excess.'?