Riding with kids
Horace
oldest son (12) wants to ride with me almost all the time. I enjoy his
company when we ride in our immediate neighborhood, but he's bugging me
about riding on some heavily trafficked streets outside the neighborhood.
He has fairly good bike handling skills for his experience level, though he
often has trouble keeping up. I'm most concerned about him riding safely in
traffic. A tandem would solve the problem, but the cost is prohibitive at
present. I've considered buying a beater MTB (like his) and taking him to
some area trails, but I suspect he's attracted to the "adventure" of really
going somewhere on his bike.
Anyone have experience in this area? If so, was there a particular age when
you encouraged your kid to ride along? Any tips would be greatly
appreciated.
Soup
Take my two with me, they are 10 and 9, luckily we live on the outskirts
of a city (Balerno village on the outskirts of Edinburgh;Scotland)so we do
not have very heavy traffic.Started them off with little jaunts around the
streets now we travel two miles away and two miles back (because of where we
are there are no circular routes) The youngest especially has ZERO sense of
danger (he has learning difficulties so mentally he 4~5)so I am forever
telling him to slow down ,there are times when I wish my head was on a
swivel watching those two, cycling myself, very carefully reading the road
e.t.c.
I take it by twelve he will have a fair bit of road sense,but I started off
with little jaunts (child on the pavement) when ever we had to cross a road
I would look about for traffic then tell the child "cross when you feel
safe" that way you are looking out for them but they get gratification from
making there own decisions.
They both have front suspension, supposedly all terrain bikes
(Emmelle),think they will wear out / break before the bikes will , I was
using a road 'bike but the tires/wheels did not engender confidence on some
of the tracks we used, now I use a full suspension 'bike which I won (just
as well I didn't pay for it, I feel a hard tail is much better for non
extreme riding) <== spot the flame bait
--
yours S (addy' not usable[not that you would try it anyway])
there wis a hare ran tae a burn it ran sae fast it couldnae turn
\\SPLASH//
www.killies.co.uk/forums/index.php
David Kerber
noSpamb...@noSpamearthlink.net says...
By the time I was in 7th grade, I was riding a couple of miles to school
and everywhere else in town everyday year 'round, and I've been taking my
12yo daughter on the main road this summer. My 14yo son has been riding
on the main road for over a year when he wants to go to Brooks to get a
snack. It's only about a mile on the road, though, and the road has a
wide shoulder with lots of runners and cyclists, so the drivers are used
to seeing them.
--
"Where was the ka-boom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering ka-
boom!"
- Marvin The Martian
Alexander Gilchrist
shifter. She was big for her age and was then riding a 24" 7-speed,
which I traded up to a 26" with a 13" frame at age 9. At 11 she got a
49cm Fuji Tourer and a 50 cm Cannondale R500. She's now 13, completed
the 361 mile Cycle South Carolina in June 2002 and her first century in
November of that year.
Choose fairly quiet backroads at first, working up gradually to more
heavily traveled roads. Match your speed to his, and gradually work
up. A tandem will only postpone his learning to ride with and cope with
traffic.
Alexander Gilchrist
Mark Weaver
That way you can keep an eye on what he's doing and how he's managing the
bike, he won't fall behind, and you'll be a more visible 'target' for
overtaking cars to see.
Mark
"Horace" <noSpamb...@noSpamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Bbk5b.17802$EW1....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Matthew
"Horace" <noSpamb...@noSpamearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Bbk5b.17802$EW1....@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
I would recommend while you are driving with him to point out dangers or
potential dangers in the road. Do this for a week or so, and then let him
start pointing out the dangers and what he would do to avoid them on his
bike. I think you will soon know if he is ready to ride in traffic.
Matthew
risto....@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi
: I'm getting back into recreational cycling after a long hiatus, and my
: oldest son (12) wants to ride with me almost all the time. I enjoy his
Maybe it's a good idea to take a look at some of the
how-to-ride-in-traffic sites together.
--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/hpv/hpv.html
varis at no spam please iki fi
Spider1977
Your 12 yo is probably a lot smarter than you give him credit for. When
I was 12 I rode everywhere in a major capital city (3 million people). I
rode at least 3 miles to school on a dual carriage highway in peak hour
traffic. I used to ride to the other side of the city to visit my
sister. Never had any trouble. If my parents worried they never said
anything. That was 30 years ago and I'm still here to tell the story.
Kids can handle bikes pretty well and they only get better with
experience. They don't have a fear of traffic - it's only when you get
to adulthood and start driving cars that you realise how vulnerable
you were as a cyclist. As long as he learns not to make erratic moves
when riding in traffic he'll be fine. My 11 year-old has strted to
ride to school this year. I'm encouraging him. Kids need the
encouragement to exercise these days - there are too many sedantry
interests (computers, TV etc.).
If the kid wants to ride with you then you should encourage it. Pretty
soon he'll be grown up and gone. Get him a good bike with decent gears
so he can keep up with you. What are you going to say in a few years
time when he starts moaning that you can't keep up with him?
I can see the post already. I have an old man who wants to ride with me,
but he's too slow and panics whenever we go out in heavy traffic. should
I buy him a wheelchair or a walking stick?
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
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Brunswick_kate
A tandem (or tandem attachment) is a great idea for long distance hauls
where the distances done by an adult are just beyond a child's stamina
levels, particularly day after day touring. But for general riding, I
think supervised soloing is the way to go for long term results.
Our 7 year old just learned to bike this summer. She's doing remarkably
well for her age but she's not safe to roll unsupervised in traffic
because she's unpredictable and doesn't have good traffic judgement
skills. Most of our family riding is done with her riding between her
two parents - usually Mamma in front, her and Poppa following.
Two things we're working on with her is to "be responsible" for her own
street crossings. What I'm trying to discourage is having her play
"follow the leader", seeing me cross a street and assuming because I
went across without a problem, she can follow without looking. She did
have an incident this summer because she saw her father cross a
residential street. Just as he went across, a car turned onto the street
and she scooted across. Fortunately, the driver was alert and braked
with plenty of time and distance to spare. When I talked to her about
it, it was very clear that she can't comprehend stopping distances for a
vehicle or judge their speed. Your child, being older, probably has
better judgement in this area.
The other thing we're doing is having her tell us what to do next.
"We're going to stop at the stop sign and turn right after we check for
cars".... etc. We also stop before starting off on a "tricky bit" to
make sure she understands how we plan to cross the bridge, or navigate
the upcoming intersection. It gives her a chance to see our otherwise
invisible thought processes.
Other than that, it's been a lot of practice sessions. She'll go out
with her dad to practise making left hand turns or work on some other
skill set. The practice sessions seem to coincidentally end at a local
ice-cream shop but I'm sure that's just happenstance <grin>
I did find information at
http://www.johnforester.com/Articles/education.htm that was very useful
in helping us teach cycling safety to our daughter. It gave me a good
insight into what she was capable of dealing with in terms of perception
and reaction.
As far as keeping up, a couple of comments. One, we've both had to cut
our speed when we're with her because she's not capable of travelling as
fast as we do and we've had to experiment a lot with gears etc to keep
our pace down to her level. Second, both of us now use a rear view
mirror on our bikes, not to watch traffic but so the leading parent can
keep an eye on the back of the pack. Finally, because she's growing so
fast, we've had to raise her bike seat twice this summer so she's
getting good extension on her legs. Everytime we've done this, her
average speed has gone up about 1 kph, so she's getting closer to our
normal speeds.
I know this sounds like a lot of effort but it isn't really. We enjoy
biking as a family and I know I'll feel a lot calmer when she makes her
first solo trip to friend's house because I have a very good idea of
what her skills are.
We've also encouraged her to define her own goals to give her a sense of
accomplishment. One was "biking to the downtown", another was "biking on
a downtown street", the next one is "biking to school". We've done a bit
of "stage management" like doing the "downtown street" on a Sunday
morning but I think it's important for kids to attain their own goals to
build their confidence.
--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX
>of a city (Balerno village on the outskirts of Edinburgh;Scotland)so we do
>not have very heavy traffic.Started them off with little jaunts around the
>streets now we travel two miles away and two miles back
Just how I started with my son, but not on the outskirts of Edinburgh - down in
Norfolk, England on mostly rural roads :-)
Little rides out - some little circular ones, and some in & outs so to speak.
The in & out was often to the nearest ice cream shop & back. If my husband came
too, we'd ride so that we had an adult in the lead, child in the middle, adult
at rear. I'd also do a running commentary of what I was doing & why on stuff
like signalling to turn, do a roundabout, change lane, etc..
The little rides became longer ones, plus we started rides to school and from
school. Once he became confident and *I* became confident of his abilities and
road sense, I let him venture out alone. I remeber the first time I let him
cycle to and from school unaccompanied... I must have lost half-a-stone that
day (fret, fret, fret...) and chewed my fingernails to the bone. But, he was
fine :-)
Now, at 14, he's started competitive cycling (round here that means time trials
effectively during the season) and is loving it. He cycles to his friends'
homes and he's developed a good sense of road awareness. I still worry about
him, though - it's part of the job description of being a parent - worry, give
them the skills so you don't have to wrap them ion cotton wool... more worry
;-)
I found in the early days, incentives such as a ride to the ice cream shop
worked well for motivation. Then a ride to the next ice cream shop... the next
cafe... all worked as good incentives to keep the interest up.
Cheers, helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email
Mail sent to it is dumped
My correct one can be gleaned from
h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$
by getting rid of the overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~
bobqzzi
Depends on the kid. I often take my 11 year old nephew with me on
rides that go , at least partially, through heavily trafficed areas.
It has never been a problem as he is very serious and conscientious
about how he rides (at least when he is with me). He has gone on
several short bike tours with no problem. His older sister (13) rode
over 1000 miles with me last year, and also accopnaied us on a bike
tour to Hawaii- again no problems.
I think most kids would be fine if the tenets of vehicular cycling are
explained, and they are accomapnied and corrected by an adult.
Bob
risto....@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi
: Your 12 yo is probably a lot smarter than you give him credit for. When
: I was 12 I rode everywhere in a major capital city (3 million people). I
: rode at least 3 miles to school on a dual carriage highway in peak
Hmm dunno, I sometimes did pretty stupid things as a kid, though I
still do... Guess it's the European traffic system, transitions
between vehicular cycling and just biketrack/sidewalk cycling can
be quite confusing.
: If the kid wants to ride with you then you should encourage it. Pretty
: soon he'll be grown up and gone. Get him a good bike with decent gears
: so he can keep up with you. What are you going to say in a few years
: time when he starts moaning that you can't keep up with him?
: I can see the post already. I have an old man who wants to ride with me,
: but he's too slow and panics whenever we go out in heavy traffic. should
: I buy him a wheelchair or a walking stick?
:D I guess it's inevitable. It all depends on who can put in the
best training miles ;)
Bran
3 Sep 2003 11:24:17 UTC
-> Anyone have experience in this area? If so, was there a particular age when
-> you encouraged your kid to ride along? Any tips would be greatly
-> appreciated.
->
We have cycled everywhere winter and summer for the past two years. I
considered our son able as soon as he could hold his line, shoulder check
and hold a reasonable speed; he was 9 when he met those requirements and
now at 11 he is riding side streets and feeders on his own and is a better
"driver" than most of the motorized ones.
tips? follow the laws yourself and expect the young to do the same. While
children may not alway do as we say they often follow our example.
--
I hurt before the ride so fibro gives me a head
start on the rest of the pack. silver lining?
bran.eve...@sk.sympatico.ca
Lars Lehtonen
>I'm getting back into recreational cycling after a long hiatus, and my
>oldest son (12) wants to ride with me almost all the time. I enjoy his
>company when we ride in our immediate neighborhood, but he's bugging me
>about riding on some heavily trafficked streets outside the neighborhood.
I was doing longer solo rides and managing downtown traffic at that age,
in the not-so-distant late 1980s. Colorado was already so overrun with
SUVs by then that I encountered a Lamborghini LM002 on one of my rides.
Lars
Kerry Nikolaisen
If possible, sign yourself and your son up for an effective cycling
course. They go over bike handling skills in the classroom and on the
road, and they spend a fair amount of time discussing how to handle a
bike in traffic.
The best thing you can do is ride! I started my son out early (8 or 9)
and we took short trips in traffic. Most of the early times were spent
just riding with traffic and not having to negotiate turns (left). We
slowly got to that point eventually, as he became comfortable riding
with traffic.
Whatever you do, ride at his speed, or it is no fun for him.
Kerry
Michel Gagnon
> My oldest son (12) wants to ride with me almost all the time. I enjoy his
> company when we ride in our immediate neighborhood, but he's bugging me
> about riding on some heavily trafficked streets outside the neighborhood.
>
> He has fairly good bike handling skills for his experience level, though he
> often has trouble keeping up. I'm most concerned about him riding safely in
> traffic. A tandem would solve the problem, but the cost is prohibitive at
> present. I've considered buying a beater MTB (like his) and taking him to
> some area trails, but I suspect he's attracted to the "adventure" of really
> going somewhere on his bike.
>
If you have nice trails in your area, it could be a nice *alternate*
place to ride. However, on-street riding has quite a few advantages,
including the fact one actually goes somewhere and one is able to use
the bike for useful transportation like going to school, work,
shopping, etc.
I have a 7-year-old daughter who has been riding both on the
trailercycle and by herself (more and more) for the last 2 years. She
knows the rules of the road and has known them from riding the
trailercycle, walking or even sitting in the car, so I don't think she
would zoom through a red light or stop sign on purpose.
As others said, when she rides her own bike, I prefer that she rides
in front of me so I can give her pointers and correct her if
necessary. Right now, I trust fairly much her traffic sense with the
following limitations:
- Traffic level per se doesn't seem to be a problem, especially if
there is a wide outside lane or if the side of the street (or
shoulder) is fairly even. The more critical factor is how long it
lasts: i.e. no problem for say, 1-2 km in a busy environment followed
by longer distance in more quiet roads.
- Hills are a problem. She doesn't feel confident in riding down
hills, so I choose either short ones or long ones with shallow grades.
- Some intersections are problematic, due to her confidence level, her
speed, etc. With her, I do 2-step left-turns and avoid if possible
places where one or two right lanes turn in a high-speed turn.
- Expanding a bit on the "intersection" issue, I avoid small streets
or bike path with problematic intersections. There is nothing worst
for a small hid than having to cross a high-volume street when there
is no traffic light to cross it. This is true both on foot and by
bike, so the typical pseudo-"safety" instruction of "walking your
bike" doesn't make any sense.
Regards,
Michel Gagnon
Horace
"Alexander Gilchrist" <sa...@gwm.sc.edu> wrote in message
news:3F55EADD...@gwm.sc.edu...
<snip>
> Choose fairly quiet backroads at first, working up gradually to more
> heavily traveled roads. Match your speed to his, and gradually work
> up. A tandem will only postpone his learning to ride with and cope with
> traffic.
>
Thanks for the tips. I want to make sure he's serious about the longer
rides, so we'll be working on single-file riding, signals, traffic
call-outs, etc. I just need to scout out some backroads for us, probably
hauling the bikes to a starting point, since we live in the urban part of
town. I think having a "destination" would help with the motivation. He kept
up with me pretty well on a ride of about four miles last week.
As far as speed goes, another poster suggested I follow in trail behind my
son, matching his speed. This will be easier when he can manage higher
gears. Right now I'm encouraging him to spin in the lower gears. (I'm
probably a little neurotic about gearing since I have arthritic knees). I
don't want him to mash big gears and hurt his knees.
Where in SC do you live? We moved from the Greenville area to NC last year.
We had a lot more nearby backroads in SC.
Horace
practice.
Horace
"Mark Weaver" <wea...@nospam-corvusdev.com> wrote in message
news:a62cnaweCMX...@comcast.com...
Brunswick_kate
> [i- Hills are a problem. She doesn't feel confident in riding down
> hills, so I choose either short ones or long ones with shallow grades.
One thing we did learn this summer is that coaster brakes are **not** a
good idea for kids. We were out doing some road work with rolling hills
for the experience. Oneida got going a little fast on the downhill
grade, lost her footing on her pedals and with coaster brakes, had
nothing left to slow her speed except gravity. Fortuntely, it was
nothing more serious than road rash but a big lesson for mom and dad.
She's getting a new bike next summer that's more suited to touring and
it will have proper brakes on it. In the meantime, we're off the hills
for a while.
Pete
"Brunswick_kate" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:3f56bbdf$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
> wrote:
> > [i- Hills are a problem. She doesn't feel confident in riding down
> > hills, so I choose either short ones or long ones with shallow grades.
>
>
>
> One thing we did learn this summer is that coaster brakes are **not** a
> good idea for kids. We were out doing some road work with rolling hills
> for the experience. Oneida got going a little fast on the downhill
> grade, lost her footing on her pedals and with coaster brakes, had
> nothing left to slow her speed except gravity. Fortuntely, it was
> nothing more serious than road rash but a big lesson for mom and dad.
> She's getting a new bike next summer that's more suited to touring and
> it will have proper brakes on it. In the meantime, we're off the hills
> for a while.
How old is she? Sometimes little kids have problems with enough finger
strength to squeeze adequately.
Pete
bstay
schools) had a rule that you were not allowed to ride your bike to
school until you were 12. Apparently there had been several traffic
safety studies (and Sweden is a safety concious country if any) made in
the area of children and traffic. Before the age of 11 a normal child
CANNOT properly judge speed/distance in regards to oncoming traffic.
Also, coordination skills are not fully developed. Another problem is
focussing skills. A very small child can only focus on one task, and
quickly forget about anything else. We are all familiar with the
situation where a child suddenly runs after a ball that went in the
street. In the midst of the action it's impossible for a child to
remember to look for cars. The focus is only on the ball and the game.
At the age of 11 these problems have been mostly outgrown and
coordination and focus skills are basically fully developed. A normal
11 year old can also manage several tasks simultaneously, as in riding
your bike and looking out for traffic. Regardless of all this in many
cases a good knowledge of how it all works can work well in lieu of
actual skills. If you teach your child to err on the safe side and
always stop at crossings to walk the bike across, you should not need
to worry at all.
There is one other important fact that many parents forget. Many
children "live" on their bikes and have fantastic handling skills due to
constant practice. This works in their favor. Many parents ride their
bike once a week or much less. They are far more incompetent riders in
many cases.
You should not worry about your son. He's already got the psycho-motor
skills required and if you teach him the rules of the road he'll be as
safe as any adult.
1. Sit down and go through the traffic regulations related to cycling
and some to cars. That way he'll know what to expect. Use local
streets and crossings as examples.
2. Get out and drive a car lenght behind him when he rides. That way you
block him completely from other traffic with yours, and you can
supervise his riding.
3. Go and ride a bike with him. Again, stay behind so that you can see
what he does. Both in the case of #2 and #3 you force him to make his
own good/bad decisions without the benefit of looking following you
like a duckling.
You can skip step two if you don't think it's needed. I did it with my
kids because they were a bit younger and I wanted the safety of the car
shield on my first outing on a bigger road. I choose some roads with
enough traffic to pose a threat, but not too much so that I wouldn't
block traffic by driving slowly.
Good luck!:)
--
"I could never be a woman. I would stay home all day and play with my breasts." --Steve Martin, L.A. Story
Steve McDonald
Horace wrote:
>I'm getting back into recreational cycling after a
>long hiatus, and my oldest son (12) wants to ride
>with me almost all the time. I enjoy his company
>when we ride in our immediate neighborhood, but
>he's bugging me about riding on some heavily
>trafficked streets outside the neighborhood.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I'm surprised he hasn't taken off on his own bike adventures by
now. When my parents made the mistake of letting me get a bike at age
nine, I immediately started disappearing and going on long excursions.
I didn't know where I was most of the time, but I soon figured out how
to find my way home. The first rule I learned was never to tell where
or how far I'd gone and the folks were given no basis by which to
restrict me. A first bike can provide a liberating and eye-opening
experience for a young person and rarely would one want to spoil it by
having a parent calling the shots. Learning how to ditch the folks and
conceal one's activities from them, is an important skill that can be
carried all through life, especially later when dealing with a spouse of
one's own. Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding
can be a good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be
done well only without any supervision. This is the way young people of
my time did things, but nowadays, they are coddled and protected to the
point of becoming dysfunctional when they suddenly find they are on
their own.
Steve McDonald
Peter Cole
news:17qclv8dnc9v830il...@4ax.com...
> lol....
>
> While reading your post I was struck by the thought that perhaps had I
> encouraged my son a bit more to ride his bike he might be a better car
driver
> now that he is grown.
I've used this idea as a "selling point", that is pointing out that many
traffic handling skills are common between cycling and driving, so that
cycling is sort of a "pre-driver's ed".
I agree that 11-12 is the right age to introduce kids to riding in traffic. I
alternated between riding behind ("nag mode"), where I could watch & comment,
and riding ahead, where I could show by example.
I got my son an excellent pamphlet "Street Smarts", written by our local
(Boston) cycling safety guru John Allen, after studying it, he lent it to his
friends. Most of it's content is available in on-line form
http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/hwyIntHS.nsf/frmBikeManual .
Perhaps the obvious thing to point out is that before you can teach, you
should be sure your own traffic skills are good.
Off-road cycling is an excellent way for children to learn bike handling
skills, often in conditions that are more challenging than road cycling.
I worked my son up through ever more difficult traffic situations, culminating
with rush hour urban routes. Now that he's just turned 15, he rides
everywhere. I think the biggest danger now is that he'd do something stupid
"following the leader" with friends who don't have a good grasp of cycling
safety.
Peter Cole
news:3Dz5b.47967$dO2....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
>
> How old is she? Sometimes little kids have problems with enough finger
> strength to squeeze adequately.
It's important to get brakes with levers that accommodate children's limited
hand reach. Many better lever have a reach adjustment, many kid's bike levers
are dysfunctional.
TWS
jaunts this summer. He stays in front and is doing fine on the back streets.
Today I was riding with him to school when out of know where a SUV with a cell
phone mom about clipped him. This is one time I kept my cool on this matter as
the driver stopped and broke down in tears after she realized what could have
happened.
Alexander Gilchrist
Horace wrote:
> Thanks for the tips. I want to make sure he's serious about the longer
> rides, so we'll be working on single-file riding, signals, traffic
> call-outs, etc. I just need to scout out some backroads for us, probably
> hauling the bikes to a starting point, since we live in the urban part of
> town. I think having a "destination" would help with the motivation. He kept
> up with me pretty well on a ride of about four miles last week.
[snip]
> Where in SC do you live? We moved from the Greenville area to NC last year.
> We had a lot more nearby backroads in SC.
Irmo, SC, probably the most bicycle hostile place in SC, if not the
nation, filled with frantic soccer moms (and Little League dads) on the
cell phone in their SUV's and resenting anyone else on the road. That's
slightly NW of Columbia, a city and area that has no alternatives for
commuting other than getting on busy arterials and going a roundabout
way to get anywhere. There are, however, plenty of outlying roads
nearby for recreational riding.
Dennis P. Harris
<noSpamb...@noSpamearthlink.net> wrote:
> As far as speed goes, another poster suggested I follow in trail behind my
> son, matching his speed. This will be easier when he can manage higher
> gears. Right now I'm encouraging him to spin in the lower gears. (I'm
> probably a little neurotic about gearing since I have arthritic knees). I
> don't want him to mash big gears and hurt his knees.
>
it sounds like you're getting a good start on teaching him how to
ride efficiently and safely.
you might find it interesting to read forester's "effective
cycling" together and discussing it both before and during rides.
Eric S. Sande
>cycling" together and discussing it both before and during rides.
Select your chapters carefully. Forester is a controversial reference
in modern times. I believe his basic technique and message is sound,
but I also think we are overdue for a new general cycling text.
How can a 35 year veteran traffic cycling nazi like me say this.
Well, it's easy. The environment has changed radically in the
suburban areas. The city and rural riding scenarios are still
basically the same as they were in the 1970s, but we need a better
strategy to deal with the suburban belts.
And those areas are growing, to our detriment.
It has become very difficult to operate effectively there.
It is still possible but it is not pleasant.
--
_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>cwhi...@texastwr.utaustin.edu__________
Horace
> I'm surprised he hasn't taken off on his own bike adventures by
> now. When my parents made the mistake of letting me get a bike at age
> nine, I immediately started disappearing and going on long excursions.
> I didn't know where I was most of the time, but I soon figured out how
> to find my way home. The first rule I learned was never to tell where
> or how far I'd gone and the folks were given no basis by which to
> restrict me. A first bike can provide a liberating and eye-opening
> experience for a young person and rarely would one want to spoil it by
> having a parent calling the shots. Learning how to ditch the folks and
> conceal one's activities from them, is an important skill that can be
> carried all through life, especially later when dealing with a spouse of
> one's own. Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding
> can be a good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be
> done well only without any supervision. This is the way young people of
> my time did things, but nowadays, they are coddled and protected to the
> point of becoming dysfunctional when they suddenly find they are on
> their own.
>
> Steve McDonald
>
Well, he keeps pretty busy with homework and violin practice, right now. He
and my younger son are really into Yu_Gi_oh (oh_no!) and so spend way too
much time dueling and playing the PS1.
I know what you mean about coddling and overprotection. I'm guilty, and want
to encourage more independence, like I had when I was a kid growing up in
the countryside (where there were few opportunities for real mischief or
danger.)
The city where we live makes me nervous about just cutting him loose. He has
a friend who lives a few blocks over, so I'll probably encourage him to ride
over there, since it seems a waste to load him into the van and drive him.
And we let him ride solo to a nearby school for some fun.
Horace
Dennis P. Harris
bigroc...@webtv.net (Steve McDonald) wrote:
> This is the way young people of
> my time did things, but nowadays, they are coddled and protected to the
> point of becoming dysfunctional when they suddenly find they are on
> their own.
This over-protectiveness is the reason that so many kids are
turning into couch potatoes before they reach adolescence.
Paranoid parents don't want their kids riding their bikes or
walking to school because they are paranoid about traffic or
perverts, and many urban parents don't want their kids hanging
out at local parks because they're afraid of drug dealing and
other crime.
Instead of pushing for safe streets, parents just restrict their
kid from both exercise and exploration of their community.
Instead of giving in to this paranoia and protectiveness, parents
should become active in community affairs and agitate for crime
free communities and streets designed and built to accomodate
pedestrians and cyclists and to slow traffic to a reasonable and
safe speed.
To do otherwise is to let the bad guys win.
Peter Cole
news:21501-3F5...@storefull-2116.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding
> can be a good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be
> done well only without any supervision.
That's plain crazy.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding can be a
>> good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be done
>> well only without any supervision.
> That's plain crazy.
Oh? When are you going to let your children off the leash. It's often
a sheltered youth that causes big crashes in later life.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Benjamin Lewis
I'm glad my parents were crazy, then. Otherwise I might be paranoid about
riding in traffic like so many people here seem to be.
--
Benjamin Lewis
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of
Congress. But I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Peter Gardner
> riding in traffic like so many people here seem to be.
Mine just didn't know what I was doing....college is useful for that
sort of thing.
Peter
Zoot Katz
Benjamin Lewis <bcl...@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:
>Peter Cole wrote:
>
>> "Steve McDonald" <bigroc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:21501-3F5...@storefull-2116.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>>> Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding
>>> can be a good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be
>>> done well only without any supervision.
>>
>> That's plain crazy.
>
>I'm glad my parents were crazy, then. Otherwise I might be paranoid about
>riding in traffic like so many people here seem to be.
Yep, when I was ages 7-11 and riding with my buddies, I was first
restricted to an area bounded by busy thoroughfares about a mile
apart. Within this area was the hill, the creek, the cave and the
woods. Eventually, I was permitted to cross those busy streets. The
rail yard, junk yard and quarry were still "out of bounds" but we rode
there too sometimes.
I don't remember ever riding with an adult but we got annual bike
safety courses at school.
--
zk
risto....@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi
: One thing we did learn this summer is that coaster brakes are **not** a
: good idea for kids. We were out doing some road work with rolling hills
Maybe bikes with just one braking system are not a good idea...
Though I guess the industry opts for those as they sell better to
price-conscious parents?
Peter Cole
news:GX57b.19782$dk4.6...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> Peter Cole writes:
>
> >> Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding can be a
> >> good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be done
> >> well only without any supervision.
>
> > That's plain crazy.
>
> Oh? When are you going to let your children off the leash. It's often
> a sheltered youth that causes big crashes in later life.
After I finished teaching them how to ride a bike. I have taught my son
cycling since he was 5. By the time he was 13, he had graduated to urban rush
hour riding. At 14, he was commuting a 20 mile round trip downtown (Boston)
each day. I had few qualms letting him do this since I was familiar with his
capabilities.
I will take the same approach with driving a car, except I will let someone
else be the primary instructor, as I have done with sailing/seamanship. All of
these activities involved many learned skills, and benefit from a good
teacher. The "sink or swim" approach is dumb, dangerous, and inefficient. The
"school of hard knocks" may be your alma mater, but I think it's greatly
overrated.
Peter Cole
news:yy7osmn7...@marge.cs.sfu.ca...
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
> > "Steve McDonald" <bigroc...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:21501-3F5...@storefull-2116.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >> Truly, a young person's early and independent bike riding
> >> can be a good way to learn how to survive in a tough world and can be
> >> done well only without any supervision.
> >
> > That's plain crazy.
>
> I'm glad my parents were crazy, then. Otherwise I might be paranoid about
> riding in traffic like so many people here seem to be.
Many cyclists, kids or not, have intimidating experiences riding in traffic,
then avoid it. I have taught my kids how to ride in traffic, and what to be
concerned about. Safety is a learned skill that children are unlikely to pick
up on their own. With proper training, street cycling, even for children, is
acceptably safe, without basic safety instruction, it isn't. The idea of
learning safety by trial & error is dumb.
Brunswick_kate
> Oh? When are you going to let your children off the leash. It's often a
> sheltered youth that causes big crashes in later life.
You seem to have a real "all or none" approach to this issue. We
regularly ride with our 7 year old. In fact, she's not allowed on the
road without one of us *at this time*. That's because she's just
learned how to bike, she has very poor traffic judgement skills and she
makes all kinds of silly-ass mistakes. She's improving steadily and
will eventually be granted more and more freedom to go where she wants
on her bike.
When am I going to let her off "the leash"? When I'm satisfied that
she's a competent cyclist as opposed to a kid on a bike.
--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.
>--------------------------<
alonzo lewis
<risto....@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:bjitrf$sfa$7...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Brunswick_kate <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>
> : One thing we did learn this summer is that coaster brakes are **not** a
> : good idea for kids. We were out doing some road work with rolling hills
>
> Maybe bikes with just one braking system are not a good idea...
> Though I guess the industry opts for those as they sell better to
> price-conscious parents?
>
> --