CG Showers (long)
W F Sill
Compared to some of you with a rolling castle (do you have a moat for
that thing?) we are practically back-packers, since our class B has
no shower. So a few words in the ears of you folks thinking about
running a CG:
In the 50's, campground showers were rare and poor, and only the brave
or desperate tried showering at rush hour. Today, plenty of booths
are available at all but the most primitive facilities, water is hot
and usually plentiful, faucets mainly adjustable, and the walls are
usually intact and fairly clean despite increasingly thoughtless and
disgusting fellow campers. Our recent experiences have been pretty
good, except for the time an Indian soaked us an extra buck to use his
rickety shower in an almost-deserted camp, and then banged on the wall
to remind my wife that her 5 minutes were up! And once we stayed at a
State Park which advertised Flush Toilets and Hot Showers but failed
to mention they were well over two miles from the sites! Still,
progress has been made, and we love it.
We really hate to grouse about showers because most CG units are
really nice. And they are essential. By comparison, most RV shower
stalls (!) are made for carrying packages and rinsing small dirty
children in emergencies. Adult showers? In smaller rv's, forget it.
Even if there was enough hot water, you'd need the Jaws of Life to get
out of the thing! So the campground shower is lovely. Usually.
We recently stayed for most of a week at a fine Tennessee KOA whose
water heater was located in Louisiana or Texas. It took 12 minutes for
hot water to arrive (OK, so I exaggerate), but we're not complaining
because it was a rare problem and the people were too nice to crab to.
Some places are so nice it would be unthinkable to grumble. A southern
Virginia KOA recently upgraded the bathhouse to Waldorf standards: A
row of sinfully elegant clear-glass decorator bulbs lit the lavatory
areas, and two booths had timed heat lamps which warmly flooded the
area with both light and heat. The walls were tastefully decorated
with daubs of bright colors. But each shower booth had just one
solidly-mounted, chrome-plated, slippery hook. Inside, there were two
tiny soap dishes, cleverly integrated into the corners of the very
nice molded shower stall, correctly sized to hold one guest-sized soap
bar or a used razor blade --- but certainly not both.
So, there are improvement opportunities to consider. We recommend
that every member of the owner's family - not just the cleaning person
- go down and bathe in the campground's showers occasionally. In
addition to your usual work, like cleaning up after slobs, look for
three things:
1. Hooks and shelves. Is there any storage other than the single
regulation inch-long hook, and the one greasy soap dish? Where to
hang/park glasses, watch, towel, soap dish, brush, shampoo, rinse,
razor, etc. If you wear clothes, where did you hang them? (My name is
NOT Jenny! 8-) )
2. Light. Why is the Coke machine is so brightly lighted that a
dental technician could work by it's glow, while shower stalls are
dark? Can you see anything? Nothing is clear (!) in a dark shower
stall, especially:
3. Clever Faucets that work (!?) in unfathomable ways. We do not
like feeling stupid, and early morning is a dreadful time for riddles
on how to get the water running with one's glasses off in poor light
in a booth so small one cannot bend over. Once water flows, we get
downright crabby while braving the steam (or ice water) to figure out
the controls for regulating temperature and flow rate. Must I push,
pull, bend, twist, or... is the Clever Shower Head turned off? We
are quite fond of the Mom and Apple-pie Plumbing Standard: Left handle
is hot, right cold; knobs counter-clockwise to open, clockwise to
close. On our last trip we encountered a State facility (AL) with one
of those dishpan-sized single-lever jobs. In addition to the fact the
little or no difference in temperature seemed to develop regardless of
it's position, there was a smaller lever behind the Big One marked
"High" and "Low". We were never able to determine whether they meant
temperature, altitude, flow rate, or blood pressure - because it had
no perceptible impact.
We refuse to carp about curtains vs doors: We don't care as long as
the towel stays dry. Likewise building materials. No color is too
ugly for us, nor any finish too rustic to interfere with our enjoyment
of a good flow of hot water. We don't even mind cinder block walls
as long as you put a board across the top so our razor won't fall into
the block holes amid the collection of discarded gum wrappers,
cigarette butts, and semi-jellied used soap cakes. (Delicate members
of your family should NOT actually look in there.)
But please give us some hooks & shelves, light, and sensible faucets.
Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
"When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
I'm beginning to believe it."
C. Darrow
Charles Parker
cannot see without their contacts, and of course, you have to get inside
before you can put in your contacts.
We have a shower in the RV, but I give that to my wife, and I use the cg
facilities.
--
email: cpa...@pdq.net
"W F Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:hv5ris8lmkh1qmk4h...@4ax.com...
>
> Compared to some of you with a rolling castle (do you have a moat for
> that thing?) we are practically back-packers, since our class B has
> no shower. So a few words in the ears of you folks thinking about
> running a CG:
snip
bill horne
> campground showers
> Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
> "When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
> I'm beginning to believe it."
> C. Darrow
Except for the Waldorf-like one, that pretty much describes my
experiences - and except that you forgot to include the spiders, frogs,
toads, wasps, mosquitos, and fire ants that I have met in showers.
--
bill
Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
R Bishop
bill horne <red...@rye.net> wrote:
>W F Sill wrote:
>> campground showers
>>
>> Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
>> "When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
>> I'm beginning to believe it."
>> C. Darrow
>
>Except for the Waldorf-like one, that pretty much describes my
>experiences - and except that you forgot to include the spiders, frogs,
>toads, wasps, mosquitos, and fire ants that I have met in showers.
And snakes. In one campground toilet years ago in central Ky, I met a very
large black snake. Since it was rattlesnake country, I didn't really
note what kind of snake it was until I was long gone. Fortunately, I'd
not removed any clothing yet.
Sue
>
>--
>bill
>Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself,
if you can't see where it keeps its brain."
J K Rowlings
JRE
JRE
W F Sill wrote:
> Compared to some of you with a rolling castle (do you have a moat for
> that thing?)
<big snip>
Jason Q. Paulsel
meet in the shower.
Jason
"W F Sill" <wi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:rgfris82uhaa31s8g...@4ax.com...
> Not long ago, bill horne <red...@rye.net> wrote:
>
> > . . . you forgot to include the spiders, frogs,
> >toads, wasps, mosquitos, and fire ants that I have met in showers.
>
> I see now why we haven't met: you go to those places where the sites
> are like grease pits and.... well, you get the idea!
>
> Yes, we've met some cockroaches and mosquitos and the occasional wasp
> - not to neglect gritty/slimy floors and the odd dysfunctional
> equipment - but on the whole we find fewer problems in modern times.
> For the most part I marvel that CG's can maintain reasonably useful
> showers in the face of a steady barrage of abuse & vandalism by the
> 'customers'.
gonzo
You raised some interesting points. Any kinda' CG shower is
fine with me, a blessing after the ones we had during that big
campout called 'Nam. However, my lady is an amputee and the
number one pet peeve we have is those slippery ceramic tiled
floors. Dangerous beyond words.
Mark
mtsof...@aol.com
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
W F Sill
> . . . you forgot to include the spiders, frogs,
>toads, wasps, mosquitos, and fire ants that I have met in showers.
I see now why we haven't met: you go to those places where the sites
are like grease pits and.... well, you get the idea!
Yes, we've met some cockroaches and mosquitos and the occasional wasp
- not to neglect gritty/slimy floors and the odd dysfunctional
equipment - but on the whole we find fewer problems in modern times.
For the most part I marvel that CG's can maintain reasonably useful
showers in the face of a steady barrage of abuse & vandalism by the
'customers'.
Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Gustave Weber
skylight-illuminated area and a nearby towel, and almost instant hot
water. That's why I shower in the rig! Yes, we use it for clothes hamper
stowage on a trip longer than a week, but I can move that out of the way
and back while the campground shower users are taking ten steps. I can
squeegee down the walls in the rest of the time it takes them to go one
way.
I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
inhibit their use?
Curious
Gus Weber
W F Sill wrote:
> Not long ago, bill horne <red...@rye.net> wrote:
>
> > . . . you forgot to include the spiders, frogs,
> >toads, wasps, mosquitos, and fire ants that I have met in showers.
>
> I see now why we haven't met: you go to those places where the sites
> are like grease pits and.... well, you get the idea!
>
> Yes, we've met some cockroaches and mosquitos and the occasional wasp
> - not to neglect gritty/slimy floors and the odd dysfunctional
> equipment - but on the whole we find fewer problems in modern times.
> For the most part I marvel that CG's can maintain reasonably useful
> showers in the face of a steady barrage of abuse & vandalism by the
> 'customers'.
>
Neon John
Gustave Weber wrote:
>
> I never had a spider in a shower, never a jellied soap, always a great
> skylight-illuminated area and a nearby towel, and almost instant hot
> water. That's why I shower in the rig! Yes, we use it for clothes hamper
> stowage on a trip longer than a week, but I can move that out of the way
> and back while the campground shower users are taking ten steps. I can
> squeegee down the walls in the rest of the time it takes them to go one
> way.
>
> I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
> inhibit their use?
>
> Curious
Several reasons:
a) We have a small (22') rig because we like to go places where a
larger rig wouldn't work. Means a small shower.
b) Most places we go do not have full hookups, usually just power
and water. Not much of a shower is possible with a 25 gallon
holding tank.
c) I'm 6'7" tall. If I (attempt) to stand in my shower, the ceiling
would strike me just about on the top of my shoulder and my shoulder
extends out over the edge when the other shoulder is hitting the
wall.
d) as a fairly severe arthritis sufferer, there is nothing not
involving drugs that gives quite as much relief as a long hot
shower. Not much of anything "long" about 6 gallons of hot water.
e) I hate cleaning bathrooms!
With one exception, I've had quite pleasant experiences in CG
showers. The one was at a CG near kitty hawk. The CG had flooded
the year before from the hurricane and the guy just never quite got
around to fixing anything. And since everything was water-damaged,
well, maybe there's not much incentive to keep the place clean.
My biggest gripe with CG showers is that they are TOO SMALL!!! At
least give me room to turn around! That and a place to lay my soap
and shampoo and I'm a happy camper.
One of the best showers I've ever used was at the state run Frozen
Head state park in Wartsville, TN. Wartsville is the home of one of
Tn's Big Houses which is located on the road to the park. It was
obvious that the showerhouse was designed by prison architects. The
handicapped shower was as large as a barn stall. It had a HUGE
showerhead that did a good imitation of a fire nozzle. The drain
was an industrial-style grated gutter at one end. Had a welded
stainless steel shelf for toiletries. Epoxy coated concrete floor.
The stall was large enough that I could move completely out of the
spray to shave, etc. Wonderful!
Some of the most consistently best experiences I've had have been at
the chain truckstops. Can't beat a price that ranges from free to
$5, the place is clean and private and it is air conditioned.
John
--
John De Armond
johngd...@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
Michael Daymude
> inhibit their use?
>
>
shower in the rig and those that don't. I am with you. I like certainty
and convenience. But, those others, well...they like ADVENTURE! It's
worth it to them for the ocassional really good shower. Or, f or some
other reason, they just prefer those showers you gotta walk to and put
up with. Perhaps they don't like movin' hamper. <g> -- Michael
.
Gerald Pearson & Sue Sarlette
>
<....>
> So, there are improvement opportunities to consider. ...
> In addition to your usual work, like cleaning up after slobs, look
> for three things:
>
>
> 3. Clever Faucets that work (!?) in unfathomable ways. We do not
> like feeling stupid, and early morning is a dreadful time for
> riddles on how to get the water running with one's glasses off in
> On our last trip we encountered a State facility (AL) with one
> of those dishpan-sized single-lever jobs. In addition to the fact
> the little or no difference in temperature seemed to develop
:-)) One of the men's showers at the campground we stayed at last
weekend had one of those dishpan sized single lever jobs which was
obviously hooked up backwards! After several minutes of rather
uncomfortable experimentation, I finally figured out that I needed to
turn the thing to COLDER in order to get hot water!!! When I turned the
control to maximum "hot" the water was cold.
-- Gerry
'99 Aliner, '98 Grand Caravan
W F Sill
>Will,
>You raised some interesting points. Any kinda' CG shower is
>fine with me, a blessing after the ones we had during that big
>campout called 'Nam. However, my lady is an amputee and the
>number one pet peeve we have is those slippery ceramic tiled
>floors. Dangerous beyond words.
OK, here's a possible gadget: It's a flexible mat made with rope and
hardwood strips. Use it to carry yer stuff to the shower, then pitch
it on the floor to provide a good non-slip grip and keep ya from
walking in the other guy's grit. Hose it off when done. If there is
enuf interest I will take a picture and send one to interested parties
who provide on non-munged email address.
W F Sill
>I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
>inhibit their use?
Either you have never actually looked at very many rv shower stalls,
or you are below-average in size.
For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size, most
rv showers are simply too small - meaning short, narrow,shallow - for
practical use. This is not something to blame makers for - it's kinda
like the grey water capacity argument in that it is impractical to put
a large home-size shower in a 2' x 2' x 6' corner of a smaller rv.
Of all the rv's we've ever owned, only one (a 5th wheel) had a usable
shower.
George Lowry
<gwebe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I never had a spider in a shower, never a jellied soap, always a great
>skylight-illuminated area and a nearby towel, and almost instant hot
>water. That's why I shower in the rig! Yes, we use it for clothes hamper
>stowage on a trip longer than a week, but I can move that out of the way
>and back while the campground shower users are taking ten steps. I can
>squeegee down the walls in the rest of the time it takes them to go one
>way.
>
>I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
>inhibit their use?
>
>Curious
>
>Gus Weber
You guys are making me love my converted coach more & more. By using
my own neo angle tiled shower, I don't have to worry about picking up
any of the various diseases that inhabit public bath facilities. I
have more than enough hot water since I designed in a system that will
keep the water hot until you run out of water. With 144 gallons of
water, that doesn't happen often. We also designed in a clothes
hamper so that we don't have to use the shower for storing dirty
clothes. It is a shame that most RV designers and manufacturers have
never spent a night in an RV, let alone several days. We can and have
spent two weeks before needing to dump and refill....
George
madee
Will wrote:
>>>>>For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size,
>>>>>Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
>>>>>"When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
>>>>>I'm beginning to believe it."
>>>>>C. Darrow
>>>>>
Uhhhh, say what?
Bob Giddings
didn't bump my head in. I'm slightly larger than you, at least in that
direction. Walked into a Mallard 235M 5th wheel the other day, and
thought I'd died and gone to heaven, far as head room goes. Have to get
on my knees to make the bed, though.
Bob
W F Sill wrote:
>
> Not long ago, Gustave Weber <gwebe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
> >inhibit their use?
>
> Either you have never actually looked at very many rv shower stalls,
> or you are below-average in size.
>
> For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size, most
> rv showers are simply too small - meaning short, narrow,shallow - for
> practical use. This is not something to blame makers for - it's kinda
> like the grey water capacity argument in that it is impractical to put
> a large home-size shower in a 2' x 2' x 6' corner of a smaller rv.
>
> Of all the rv's we've ever owned, only one (a 5th wheel) had a usable
> shower.
>
Neon John
George Lowry wrote:
> You guys are making me love my converted coach more & more. By using
> my own neo angle tiled shower, I don't have to worry about picking up
> any of the various diseases that inhabit public bath facilities. I
> have more than enough hot water since I designed in a system that will
> keep the water hot until you run out of water. With 144 gallons of
> water, that doesn't happen often. We also designed in a clothes
> hamper so that we don't have to use the shower for storing dirty
> clothes. It is a shame that most RV designers and manufacturers have
> never spent a night in an RV, let alone several days. We can and have
> spent two weeks before needing to dump and refill....
Yo, george. How 'bout coming with us this memorial day? We're
going to a lovely little meadow in the Smoky mountains above the
Tellico River, a place called Waucheese Lookout. Gorgeous place -
on a clear day, one can see forever. Best place in the area for
playing with ham radios. It's only about 10 miles off the
pavement. Most of the way, it's a logging road. About the last
half mile is eroded rocky roadbed. My little Itasca can handle the
switchbacks and rocks pretty well. About that bus, hmmm. Well I do
have a friend who's an officer in the National Guard. I could
probably arrange the use of a Chinook helicopter to set that
behemoth on the mountaintop :-) Can I borrow your shower afterward?
....
Hey, we all make our tradeoffs. In my stage of life, it's to
tolerate a small MH in return for being able to go places I couldn't
with a larger one without having to have a toad.
W F Sill
>Adding to the confusion:
>Will wrote:
>>>>>>For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size,
>Uhhhh, say what?
Think about it for a while, madee - maybe it will come to you. Most
short people are as smart as the other kind if they work at it.
W F Sill
>You guys are making me love my converted coach more & more. By using
>my own neo angle tiled shower, I don't have to worry about picking up
>any of the various diseases that inhabit public bath facilities. I
>have more than enough hot water since I designed in a system that will
>keep the water hot until you run out of water. With 144 gallons of
>water, that doesn't happen often. We also designed in a clothes
>hamper so that we don't have to use the shower for storing dirty
>clothes. It is a shame that most RV designers and manufacturers have
>never spent a night in an RV, let alone several days. We can and have
>spent two weeks before needing to dump and refill....
I kinda thought we'd hear from George! Glad he chimed in, because a
converted coach is the only way to go (IMO) if you are a full-timer or
nearly so. Now THAT kind of a shower would work for even 4' 27"
people!! 8-)
bill horne
>
> Not long ago, Gustave Weber <gwebe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
> >inhibit their use?
>
> Either you have never actually looked at very many rv shower stalls,
> or you are below-average in size.
>
> For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size, most
> rv showers are simply too small - meaning short, narrow,shallow - for
> practical use. This is not something to blame makers for - it's kinda
> like the grey water capacity argument in that it is impractical to put
> a large home-size shower in a 2' x 2' x 6' corner of a smaller rv.
>
> Of all the rv's we've ever owned, only one (a 5th wheel) had a usable
> shower.
>
> "When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
> I'm beginning to believe it."
> C. Darrow
Well, I'm only 5' 8", but my 17' TT is only 6' floor to ceiling. The
shower is somewhat cramped, but it does the job, and it's certainly
better than my first TT, in which we 'showered' out of two pots while
standing at the kitchen sink. That worked amazingly well, too. However,
we use CG showers whenever they're available.
gonzo
got a "portable" mat and shower chair. Some CGs use the rough
concrete up to the stall. But most seem to use slick tiles. One
floor was sooooo bad, I ended up carrying her to the shower
because her crutches kept sliding.
Now, for those who might ask... we do use the shower in the MH,
alot. But when there's a pool and a shower... she loves the
luxury of a swim and a long hot shower. The other catch is that
it takes a fair amount of hot, clean water to clean out the
liner of her artificial leg. Yes, we do work-arounds and such...
and for making traveling a joy, the MH is the only way to go.
Donut
Bob Giddings wrote:
> I'd settle for a sit down shower, it I could find a short trailer that I
> didn't bump my head in. I'm slightly larger than you, at least in that
> direction. Walked into a Mallard 235M 5th wheel the other day, and
> thought I'd died and gone to heaven, far as head room goes. Have to get
> on my knees to make the bed, though.
Ya gotta take off the hat and the boots, Bob. Damned Texans......<g>
Donut
To email remove the 'u' from do...@gilanet.com
R Bishop
bill horne <red...@rye.net> wrote:
>W F Sill wrote:
>>
>> Not long ago, Gustave Weber <gwebe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
>> >inhibit their use?
>>
>> Either you have never actually looked at very many rv shower stalls,
>> or you are below-average in size.
>>
>> For adults people of normal (I'm 5' 15") to Large Economy size, most
>> rv showers are simply too small - meaning short, narrow,shallow - for
>> practical use. This is not something to blame makers for - it's kinda
>> like the grey water capacity argument in that it is impractical to put
>> a large home-size shower in a 2' x 2' x 6' corner of a smaller rv.
>>
>> Of all the rv's we've ever owned, only one (a 5th wheel) had a usable
>> shower.
>>
>> Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
>> "When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
>> I'm beginning to believe it."
>> C. Darrow
>
>Well, I'm only 5' 8", but my 17' TT is only 6' floor to ceiling. The
>shower is somewhat cramped, but it does the job, and it's certainly
>better than my first TT, in which we 'showered' out of two pots while
>standing at the kitchen sink. That worked amazingly well, too. However,
>we use CG showers whenever they're available.
Heck, folks, you ain't camped until you've done a three week honeymoon in
a canvas tent that had survived Woodstock. In Nova Scotia. During a bad
storm. In July. During Black Fly season. The marriage survived and
so did the tent.
Sue
>
>--
>bill
>Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself,
Neon John
George Lowry wrote:
> Been there, done that! Now I prefer the comfort. Though I have taken
> the coach into some places others thought was impossible. That's one
> of the reasons we stuck with a 35 footer. My wheel base is only about
> 22'.... Been into a lot of back woods places in the Sierras. I will
> admit there are a few that I won't try to get into though...
I'm actually quite interested in coach conversions since I want to
build my own next RV and that seems to be the best way to go for
someone who doesn't happen to own an RV factory. What kind of bus
did you start with? I'm interesting in what kind of sub-40 ft
busses there are. Only ones I'm familiar with are the urban route
buses. Those have a very nice feature that I'm interested in - the
ability to kneel down so I don't have to climb a high first step.
George Lowry
wrote:
>
>
>George Lowry wrote:
>
>> You guys are making me love my converted coach more & more. By using
>> my own neo angle tiled shower, I don't have to worry about picking up
>> any of the various diseases that inhabit public bath facilities. I
>> have more than enough hot water since I designed in a system that will
>> keep the water hot until you run out of water. With 144 gallons of
>> water, that doesn't happen often. We also designed in a clothes
>> hamper so that we don't have to use the shower for storing dirty
>> clothes. It is a shame that most RV designers and manufacturers have
>> never spent a night in an RV, let alone several days. We can and have
>> spent two weeks before needing to dump and refill....
>
>Yo, george. How 'bout coming with us this memorial day? We're
>going to a lovely little meadow in the Smoky mountains above the
>Tellico River, a place called Waucheese Lookout. Gorgeous place -
>on a clear day, one can see forever. Best place in the area for
>playing with ham radios. It's only about 10 miles off the
>pavement. Most of the way, it's a logging road. About the last
>half mile is eroded rocky roadbed. My little Itasca can handle the
>switchbacks and rocks pretty well. About that bus, hmmm. Well I do
>have a friend who's an officer in the National Guard. I could
>probably arrange the use of a Chinook helicopter to set that
>behemoth on the mountaintop :-) Can I borrow your shower afterward?
>....
>
>Hey, we all make our tradeoffs. In my stage of life, it's to
>tolerate a small MH in return for being able to go places I couldn't
>with a larger one without having to have a toad.
>
>John
Hi John,
Been there, done that! Now I prefer the comfort. Though I have taken
the coach into some places others thought was impossible. That's one
of the reasons we stuck with a 35 footer. My wheel base is only about
22'.... Been into a lot of back woods places in the Sierras. I will
admit there are a few that I won't try to get into though...
George
George Lowry
wrote:
>I'm actually quite interested in coach conversions since I want to
>build my own next RV and that seems to be the best way to go for
>someone who doesn't happen to own an RV factory. What kind of bus
>did you start with? I'm interesting in what kind of sub-40 ft
>busses there are. Only ones I'm familiar with are the urban route
>buses. Those have a very nice feature that I'm interested in - the
>ability to kneel down so I don't have to climb a high first step.
>
>John
For a start...... This is such a large subject. We started with a GM
4106 intercity bus, originally used by Greyhound. Ours is a 1962 which
makes it 38 years old and it probably has several million miles on it.
I figure it probably doesn't have more than a million miles left in it
which is much more than we will probably put on it.
If I had it to do over, I would not build my own. I would shop around
and find one that was close to what I wanted that was in a "forced
sale" such as illness or death in the family. I could go out and buy
one like mine for about $30 - 40K today. I have invested over $125K
not including any labor, in building it.
If you would like to see what we have done, check out
<www.jps.net/wwemu> It has most of the modifications included. I am
not completely up to date on the web page..
As far as what is available, with a little looking, you can find
almost any length you want. One of our friends converted an old
"x-ray" bus; the kind that went around to schools etc and you went in
the front door, got your x-ray, and out the back. As I recall, it was
about 30 feet. Ours is 35'. As you probably know, there are buses
available up to 45 ft. plus the articulating buses that go to 60 ft.
The one problem with the larger buses, over 40 ft, is that the vehicle
codes have exceptions for buses but the moment you change them into an
RV, the exemption does not apply. There are efforts to change the
laws but...... Same argument applies to the wide bodies. That is
why we compromised and went with the 35' length and 8' width. As far
as manufacturers; The most common are GM, Eagle, MCI, Prevost, and
Flxible (That is the correct spelling). There are a lot of buses
coming from Europe these days such as Dina, Van Hool, and Neoplan.
I would suggest a subscription to the National Bus Trader
<www.busmag.com> for a lot of information as well as the best source
of classified ads..
The great thing about converting is that you CAN have it the way you
want. Within limits as to the compromises you have to make to fit
your size requirements and pocketbook. It is much better than any of
the factory MHs I have had.
Rather than take up everybody's time on the subject, if you want more
info, let me know by email and I will be happy to discuss all the
pros and cons on the subject...
George
George Miklas
Camping page http://www.pathway.net/harmonicat/camping.htm
mikey
"Nick Simicich" <n...@spamcop.net> wrote in message news:6qt2js86fkg21i1uq...@4ax.com...On Fri, 26 May 2000 04:04:18 GMT, Gustave Weber
<gwebe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I have a 26 foot class C. What is it about other coach showers that
>inhibit their use?
I'm 6'4". The distance between my head and the skylight (and it
better have a domed skylight) is mere inches. Turning around in the
shower is difficult as well.
Marge & Stan
up. Drove by it last week. Sorry, don't have a name. Maybe an Atlanta
local can help. Stan.
Ross Binnie
Re: Van Hool bus conversions. I saw 2 new units at the I10 tourist info
center on Jan 3 this year. Just made me drool with envy!
Re Bus Shells: There are many available. Try ABC Bus Company for an
extensive list of links, also there is a company selling used coaches right
across the street from Travelers World RV Park in San Antonio, TX
Happy Trails
George Lowry wrote in message <3946efe0....@news.jps.net>...
D. Reaves
> Not long ago, madee wrote:
>
> >Adding to the confusion:
>
> >Will wrote:
>
> Will came back with:
> Think about it for a while, madee - maybe it will come to you. Most
> short people are as smart as the other kind if they work at it.
>
> Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Will, since you're 355.6mm taller than I, will you jog my memory? The source of my university cum laude degree isn't supplying memory replacements to short people. Did you say that showers usually have hot water faucets on the right and cold on the left? If so -- OWEEEeeeeeee!
No park showers have ever supplied the convenience, comfort and security of the ones in our RVs. Defenseless and nude, I met the biggest spiders I've ever seen in a Texas state park shower late one night. They wanted an orgy, so I told them I'd scream and call my husband. Of course they didn't know he was deaf. That was a QUICK shower!
The best RV tub-shower with seat we had was in an old Airstream MH -- as long as we removed the fitted-to-the-tub liner under the litter box first and cleaned up the scattered clumping litter, which can clog a gray water tank.
The A/S MH had a pre-heater that ran off the engine. That plus the propane water heater gave longer showers. Anybody have any ideas on inexpensive ways of adding one to our present MH (Ford 460)?
Soothing soaks to all,
Dot, whose ISP quit for 12 or more hours on the holiday weekend.
--
* North Central Florida * drea...@email.msn.com
"But no one is willing to give up the truth as he sees it..."
- Robert M. Persig
Neon John
"D. Reaves" wrote:
> The A/S MH had a pre-heater that ran off the engine. That plus the propane water heater gave longer showers. Anybody have any ideas on inexpensive ways of adding one to our present MH (Ford 460)?
Sure. Buy the heat exchanger listed here:
http://www.hotcampshowers.com/new1851.html and have it installed in
the hot water line. This would be trivially easy to make if you or
hubby's handy with tools.
W F Sill
> Did you say that showers usually have hot water faucets on
>the right and cold on the left? If so -- OWEEEeeeeeee!
If I wrote that, I shouldn't have - the point was that you can't
depend on any particular arrangement. One State facility featured
chain operated valves (no choice of temp!) which must be held
continuously to function!
>The A/S MH had a pre-heater that ran off the engine.
>That plus the propane water heater gave longer showers.
>Anybody have any ideas on inexpensive ways of adding
>one to our present MH (Ford 460)?
I think the nice marine WH's available from West Marine etc are under
$300 with engine heating coil and 120v element. If you are handy
enuf to install yourself, and don't miss propane, that's the way to
go. It would cost as lot more in labor. I know of no practical way to
convert a propane WH, but someone can probably tell us if there's a
propane/coolant unit available.
Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
D. Reaves
#1 "D. Reaves" (that's me) wrote (confusingly):
> The A/S MH had a pre-heater that ran off the engine. That plus the propane water heater gave longer showers. Anybody have any ideas on inexpensive ways of adding one to our present MH (Ford 460)?
This was ONE water heater, not two heaters/systems on the '83 Airstream (A/S) Class A, 30' motorhome. Upon arrival at our destination, we had instant *very* hot water -- hotter than what the propane provided -- so that more cold water was used (despite the small six gallon tank) to allow the temp to be comfortable and not conducive to burns.
As you've figured out by now, the water was being heated continuously by the hot water in the engine's radiator. The hose from the radiator to the "car" heater had a T that gave access to another hose that ran to the water heater tank. That hose was connected to a copper coil inside the tank that circulated the hot radiator water, thereby heating the water in the tank. Another similar hose and T setup hose returned the cold water to the radiator.
The A/S's water heater also utilized propane just as our more familiar, newer RV water heater systems. But the heat exchange system worked so well that we often had no need to turn on the propane. Think about how long a recently operated automobile stays warm. Ask any cat!
Although we did not have any problems, potential disaster could take place. DH (Dear Husband) suggests cut offs at all T's, not just at water heater/tank. The hoses to and from "car" heater was long and hidden in wall. If it broke or leaked... !!!! Damage to RV coach interior and ruined engine if no water in radiator!
Probably impractical or too expensive to "make your own," but it's something to think about since one can't find such a set in, for example, Camping World. Another idea inspired by picturing the anode rod in older water heaters: add AC power to heat water and save propane. See the under $100 "Hott Rod" in Camping World catalog. Make your own?
#2 "Neon John" wrote ...
> > Sure. Buy the heat exchanger listed here:
> > http://www.hotcampshowers.com/new1851.html and have it installed in
> > the hot water line. This would be trivially easy to make (skip)
Not what I had in mind but great site for campers, John. Liked the $24.95 outside shower enclosure. Could be used for RVs for outside showers. Thanks for URL.
#3 "W F Sill" wrote...
> > > I think the nice marine WH's available from West Marine etc are under
> > > $300 with engine heating coil and 120v element. If you are handy
> > > enuf to install yourself, and don't miss propane, that's the way to
> > > go. It would cost as lot more in labor. I know of no practical way to
> > > convert a propane WH, but someone can probably tell us if there's a
> > > propane/coolant unit available.
Will, again not what I had in mind. My fault as I wrote as if there were two heaters.
RVers, if I'm not clear this time, forgive me and don't pick on me too much as long as you get the idea! BTW, our MH's shower and water heater work fine; it's just that the old A/S had a better idea.
--
Dot * North Central Florida * drea...@email.msn.com
Neon John
"D. Reaves" wrote:
> This was ONE water heater, not two heaters/systems on the '83 Airstream (A/S) Class A, 30' motorhome. Upon >arrival at our destination, we had instant *very* hot water -- hotter than what the propane provided -- so that >more cold water was used (despite the small six gallon tank) to allow the temp to be comfortable and not >conducive to burns.
>
> As you've figured out by now, the water was being heated continuously by the hot water in the engine's >radiator. The hose from the radiator to the "car" heater had a T that gave access to another hose that ran to >the water heater tank. That hose was connected to a copper coil inside the tank that circulated the hot >radiator water, thereby heating the water in the tank. Another similar hose and T setup hose returned the cold >water to the radiator.
That kind of heater is still available. I saw one for sale at our
local RV store (Shipp's RV service, Chattanooga, TN) awhile back.
No idea what brand. Logical for a motorhome, a bit more complicated
for a trailer as you note.
> Although we did not have any problems, potential disaster could take place. DH (Dear Husband) suggests cut >offs at all T's, not just at water heater/tank. The hoses to and from "car" heater was long and hidden in wall. >If it broke or leaked... !!!! Damage to RV coach interior and ruined engine if no water in radiator!
If I was setting such a system up for a trailer, I'd do things a bit
backwards. I'd put the heat exchanger in the vehicle and then have
a small pump circulate water heater water to and from the
exchanger. That way, all a leak does is leak out the fresh water.
If the tubing is run under the trailer, then there's little risk of
water damage.
I'm very interested in how the liquid lines connected between the
trailer and the tow vehicle in your old Air Stream.
> Probably impractical or too expensive to "make your own," but it's something to think about since one can't >find such a set in, for example, Camping World. Another idea inspired by picturing the anode rod in older water >heaters: add AC power to heat water and save propane. See the under $100 "Hott Rod" in Camping World catalog. >Make your own?
These can be made very cheaply, for less than $10. I've made a
bunch of these for use on refrigeration system in my restaurant as
de-superheaters. Improves both the efficiency and the cooling
capacity. All that is involved is a couple of lengths of rigid
copper tubing and two reducing tees.
Let's say that we're using 1/2" tubing for the core and 3/4" tubing
for the jacket. For a one foot (nominal) long exchanger, you'd need
a foot of 3/4" tubing, about 15 inches of 1/2" tubing and a couple
of 1/2 X 1/2 X 3/4 reducing sweat (solder) tees. Everything is
available at Ace Hardware, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.
This tee will have the side leg for 1/2" tubing, one straight leg
for 1/2" tubing and one straight leg for 3/4" tubing. The 1/2"
straight leg has a little ridge in it to keep the tubing from
extending into the tee. If this ridge is reamed out (with a pocket
knife or rat tailed file), then 1/2" tubing can be passed through
the tee to the 3/4" tubing. this is the key.
After reaming the ridges, one simply pushes a tee onto each end of
the 3/4" tubing. The 15 inch length of 1/2" tube is then pushed
from one tee through the 3/4" tubing and out the other tee. Center
this tubing so that an equal amount sticks out on each end. Insert
short stubs of 1/2" tubing into the side legs. All joints are then
soldered (silver soldered if you really care :-)
Viola!!! Instant heat exchanger. Radiator hose can be simply
slipped over the copper tubing and secured with worm clamps or one
can solder on hose nipples.
It literally takes longer to describe how to do it than to make the
thing.
> Not what I had in mind but great site for campers, John. Liked the $24.95 outside shower enclosure. Could be used for RVs for outside showers. Thanks for URL.
Yer welcome. Here's another URL for outside showers
http://www.bivouacbuddy.com/index.html. I actually like the look of
this one better. The one pictured on the home page has a built-in
reservoir but if you look on the order page, they offer it without
the reservoir. This is on my to-buy list for extended dry camping.
G Sanders
>
> That kind of heater is still available. I saw one for sale at our
> local RV store (Shipp's RV service, Chattanooga, TN) awhile back.
> No idea what brand.
John, it was probably a Suburban. They list a Propane/110 Volt/Engine
Assist water heater in their current brochures. I picked up one
(brochure, that is) about a week ago.
--
Gary Sanders
Bait for spammers:
root@localhost
postmaster@localhost
admin@localhost
abuse@localhost
postm...@127.0.0.1
Sky Walker
Who is going to handle that 'flexible mat' after your shower?
Your hands?
Does this mean you don't want to let your shoes touch the dirty floor, but you
would use your hand touch the mat that touch the floor?
On Fri, 26 May 2000 12:10:02 GMT, W F Sill <wi...@epix.net> wrote:
=>
=>OK, here's a possible gadget: It's a flexible mat made with rope and
=>hardwood strips. Use it to carry yer stuff to the shower, then pitch
=>it on the floor to provide a good non-slip grip and keep ya from
=>walking in the other guy's grit. Hose it off when done. If there is
=>enuf interest I will take a picture and send one to interested parties
=>who provide on non-munged email address.
=>
=>Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
=>"When I was a boy, I was told that anybody could become president;
=>I'm beginning to believe it."
=>C. Darrow
=>
=>
--
E-Mail: SkyWalker1689 at Hotmail period Company
800-404-3733 get your phone number(use it on your own risk)
http://www.ocregister.com/classified/
http://www.catnet.ne.jp/fukuda/garmap/e_garmap.html
http://www.latimes.com/HOME/CLASS/TRANS/
W F Sill
A long time ago, I wrote:
=OK, here's a possible gadget: It's a flexible mat made with rope and
=hardwood strips. Use it to carry yer stuff to the shower, then pitch
=it on the floor to provide a good non-slip grip and keep ya from
=walking in the other guy's grit. Hose it off when done. If there
=isenuf interest I will take a picture and send one to interested
=parties who provide on non-munged email address.
Now today Sky Walker <RO...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>Who is going to handle that 'flexible mat' after your shower?
>Your hands?
>Does this mean you don't want to let your shoes touch the dirty floor, but you
>would use your hand touch the mat that touch the floor?
In your case, I suggest getting a large supply of these, and instead
of (ugh!) touching them, just leave them there.
On second thought, you are so far outa touch with the concept of a
shower mat that you probably don't need one - your feet ain't on the
ground anyway!
(BTW, I still have the photo if anyone wants it)
Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
"Everyone is entitled to his own views. No one
is entitled to his own facts." J. Schlesinger
Grey_w...@hotmail.com
On 2000-06-15 wi...@epix.net said:
wi>Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.rv-travel,alt.rv
wi>A long time ago, I wrote:
wi>=OK, here's a possible gadget: It's a flexible mat made with rope
wi>and =hardwood strips. Use it to carry yer stuff to the shower,
wi>then pitch =it on the floor to provide a good non-slip grip and
wi>keep ya from =walking in the other guy's grit. Hose it off when
wi>done. If there =isenuf interest I will take a picture and send one
wi>to interested =parties who provide on non-munged email address.
wi>Now today Sky Walker <RO...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
wi>>Who is going to handle that 'flexible mat' after your shower?
wi>>Your hands?
wi>>Does this mean you don't want to let your shoes touch the dirty
wi>>floor, but you would use your hand touch the mat that touch the
wi>floor?
wi>In your case, I suggest getting a large supply of these, and instead
wi>of (ugh!) touching them, just leave them there.
wi>On second thought, you are so far outa touch with the concept of a
wi>shower mat that you probably don't need one - your feet ain't on the
wi>ground anyway!
For-the-love-of (insert your favorite name here), stop with the
complication already! Wanna keep your feet OFF the floor? They're called
SHOWER CLOGS!!! Done with the shower??? rinse them!!! SIMPLE!!!! BTW they
(shower clogs) are non-skid.
wi>(BTW, I still have the photo if anyone wants it)
I certainly don't..only an IDIOT would use such a device!!
wi>Will KD3XR ---- the Curmudgeon of Sill Hill
Surely you need to replace "curmudgeon" with BOZO..
wi>"Everyone is entitled to his own views. No one
wi>is entitled to his own facts." J. Schlesinger
All sentences that seem true should be questioned.
JQP
I use Draino on mine.
JQP
<Grey_w...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ier25.12$J3....@news1.atlantic.net...
Hugh
clean it's ok. Or do you mean you warsh your hair piece with Drano. Just
kiddin', just kiddin'. Scuse me, just couldn't help myself <VVBG>.
Hugh
JQP
Drain-o for the drain. Fortunately I'm defying my genetics, because I
*should* be half bald by now
JQP
"Hugh" <hug...@dreamscape.net> wrote in message
news:394A5F39...@dreamscape.net...
GBinNC
wrote:
>JQP wrote:
>>
>> I thought shower clogs were caused by losing your hair in the shower?
>> I use Draino on mine.
>Wow Jason that's a frightening picture but, guess if it gets your hair
>clean it's ok. Or do you mean you warsh your hair piece with Drano. Just
>kiddin', just kiddin'. Scuse me, just couldn't help myself <VVBG>.
>Hugh
There's a "hugh" difference in what he said and what he meant, huh!
GB in NC
Jay Denebeim
JQP <NOpaul...@usa.net> wrote:
>Oh, I guess I wasn't too clear on that one.
>
>Drain-o for the drain. Fortunately I'm defying my genetics, because I
>*should* be half bald by now
Your mother's female relatives tend to go for bald guys? (baldness is
passed through the mother's side of the family)
Jay
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JQP
"Jay Denebeim" <dene...@deepthot.org> wrote in message
news:8ie56f$qup$1...@dent.deepthot.org...
Jay Denebeim
JQP <NOpaul...@usa.net> wrote:
>> Your mother's female relatives tend to go for bald guys? (baldness is
>> passed through the mother's side of the family)
>affirmative
What about your sisters? Perhaps the baldness gene in guys causes
attraction to bald guys in gals.
Hugh
> There's a "hugh" difference in what he said and what he meant, huh!
>
> GB in NC
Ha, you've been reading my posts. I got a hugh laugh out of that <g>.
Hugh