Let's have a laugh
Tore Tjomsland
make N2O ?
Tore Tjomsland
e-mail: t...@cmi.no
bill nelson
: Is there anybody out there who knows how to
: make N2O ?
Sure - obtaining a purity good enough for breathing is another matter.
Heating ammonium nitrate is one way. Unfortunately, it also tends to
produce NO2 and possibly NO, neither of which you want to breath.
Bill
Liang Chai
Put metal (such as Zinc) into HNO3, you can get the gas mixture NO2, NO,
..., and the ratio depends on the concentration of the acid solution. AT
certain range, you can get mainly N2O.
Liang Chai
lc...@phoenix.princeton.edu
Howard Berkey
Sure, throw a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in your oven @350 F. Of course, this will smell, and could possibly explode, but you'd get N2O!
-H
--
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Howard Berkey how...@netcom.com
Genius, n.:
A chemist who discovers a laundry additive that rhymes with
"bright".
Tom Perigrin
Good Grief... that advice is almost criminal. The topic, "let's have
a laugh" indicates that the person intends to inhale the gas. Merck
Index lists NO2 as "one of the most insidious gases" and says
that very small ppms are indectable to human senses and can cause fatal
pulmonary edemas hours or days after inhalation. I imagine that
the estate or survivors of anyone trying to make N2O by your method would
have a good suit against you.
I would suggest that the original poster consider the NO2 problem VERY
SERIOUSLY. There are ways to make N2O which are substantially free of
NO2, but I would want to wash it and trap the NO2 very carefully if it was
coming anywhere near my lungs. Remember, LETHAL concentrations
can be indectable to the senses!!!!!
Better yet, if you want to get intoxicated on something you can
make at home, try homebrewing or winemaking. Unless you use lead
vessels very little can go wrong that can kill you, apart from
cirhossis, kidney failure, drunk driving, etc...
Stephen Jacobs
this you'll be dead within the week (barring a lung transplant).
Those brown fumes aren't terribly bad-smelling, or terribly irritating in the
short run, but they cause pulmonary edema, even in low concentration.
Steve s...@chinet.chi.il.us
Frank Smith
heating of ammonium nitrate. You also get water vapour produced as well, so
this would have to be removed by cold trapping before you would get fairly
pure N2O. There should not be any other oxides of nitrogen present but if
there is any ammonium nitrite this will decompose to nitrogen gas.
Beware that ammonium nitrate is an explosive so small quantities and gentle
heating are imperative.
bill nelson
: Back when I was a student I learned that nitrous oxide can be made by gentle
: heating of ammonium nitrate. You also get water vapour produced as well, so
: this would have to be removed by cold trapping before you would get fairly
: pure N2O. There should not be any other oxides of nitrogen present but if
: there is any ammonium nitrite this will decompose to nitrogen gas.
What other compounds might be present that would give off undesireable gases
with gentle heating? Is there any way to know? Can you come up with a trap
that will trap everything except N2O and N2?
:
: Beware that ammonium nitrate is an explosive so small quantities and gentle
: heating are imperative.
It is not explosive at the temperatures and pressures that you will be able
to generate in your oven. It is possible that there are other compounds
present that could form explosive gases when heated.
Bill
bill nelson
:
: Sure, throw a bag of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in your oven @350 F. Of course, this will smell, and could possibly explode, but you'd get N2O!
From all the information I have available, ammonium nitrate need a combination
of high temperature and elevated pressure, before it will explode. You will
not get that in your oven.
However, get it too hot and you get other oxides of nitrogen besides N20. I
certainly would want to watch the temperatures very closely. I also would want
to trap out any NO and NO2 that might form. Nitrated lungs are not good for
your continued health.
Bill
Howard Berkey
This is true (and I was kidding with the fertilizer, of course). NH4NO3 is
stable stuff, it requires a shock or heat/pressure combo to set it off. It
does produce quite an effective explosion; it's used in strip mining and the
army uses it in cratering charges.
A word of caution about the metal/HNO3 route...DO NOT USE COPPER METAL. Nitric
acid reacts very strongly with Cu.
-Howard
Ryan Hartwich
Hey, has anyone heard about a flash point, oh say 451 degrees F for
paper, well, if you are planning on doing anything with nitrates
(you know, an ingredient in about 1/2 explosives known to man), try
looking in the Merck index for its flash point!
Ryan
/-------------------------------------------------\
| \ /------\ |
| ===========> | Ryan | send email to: |
| / \------/ |
| bt...@cleveland.freenet.edu |
\-------------------------------------------------/
--
Frank Smith
>: Back when I was a student I learned that nitrous oxide can be made by gentle
>: heating of ammonium nitrate.
>bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Bill Nelson) writes:
>What other compounds might be present that would give off undesireable gases
>with gentle heating? Is there any way to know? Can you come up with a trap
>that will trap everything except N2O and N2?
Metal nitrates or nitric acid are the most likely impurities. These could be
removed by recrystallization from water: solubility 871g/100mL at 100degC
but 118g/100mL at 0degC. Since N2O boils at -88.5degC a trap cooled with
solid CO2 would be useful to trap gases other than water vapour since its
temperature would be -78.5degC. I would collect water vapour first in ice
or with a second CO2 trap. N2 is very low boiling and will sail through.
>:
>: Beware that ammonium nitrate is an explosive so small quantities and gentle
>: heating are imperative.
>
bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>It is not explosive at the temperatures and pressures that you will be able
>to generate in your oven. It is possible that there are other compounds
>present that could form explosive gases when heated.
>
Explosions are unpredictable things. I would suggest don't heat it too fast or
to too high a temperature. It is not explosive gases that are the
problem, but the fact that a solid occupying small volume changes to gases
of much larger volume. My book says that explosions of ammonium nitrate
generate N2, O2 and H2O, none of which are explosive.
Stephen Jacobs
The explosive properties of ammonium nitrate were discovered by accident.
Now that we know that it's a high explosive (that's a completely different
kind of thing from a propellant), I personally choose to give it a wide
berth. I simply don't want to be the one to discover the odd circumstance
that makes it easy to detonate.
For what it's worth, high temperature and pressure aren't a particularly
practical way to detonate ammonium nitrate. In the Texas City explosion,
conventional wisdom has it that a large volume of burning ammonium nitrate
allowed a flame front to keep accelerating (yeak, that has to do with
temperature and pressure, but not externally applied) until it became
supersonic (defines a high explosive). Subsequently, it was found that
mixing in some fuels gave a composition that could be detonated by booster
explosives. Even later, it was found that mixing in little bits of other
industrial explosives gave compositions that could be set off by primary
explosives. I really REALLY don't want to stumble onto the next step, if any
bill nelson
: In article <1992Aug4.1...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
:
: For what it's worth, high temperature and pressure aren't a particularly
: practical way to detonate ammonium nitrate. In the Texas City explosion,
Nope - pretty hard, actually. It takes a good shock to initiate AN.
: conventional wisdom has it that a large volume of burning ammonium nitrate
: allowed a flame front to keep accelerating (yeak, that has to do with
: temperature and pressure, but not externally applied) until it became
: supersonic (defines a high explosive). Subsequently, it was found that
That is one theory. Another is that the decomposition gases detonated.
Whatever happened, it was under high pressure and temperature conditions.
: mixing in some fuels gave a composition that could be detonated by booster
: explosives. Even later, it was found that mixing in little bits of other
: industrial explosives gave compositions that could be set off by primary
: explosives. I really REALLY don't want to stumble onto the next step, if any
The thing is, it is the other explosives that are detonated by the primary
explosives. These explosives then detonate the AN.
Bill
Anthony Ankrom
>
>From all the information I have available, ammonium nitrate need a combi
ation
>of high temperature and elevated pressure, before it will explode. You w
ll
>not get that in your oven.
>
>However, get it too hot and you get other oxides of nitrogen besides N20
I
>certainly would want to watch the temperatures very closely. I also woul
want
>to trap out any NO and NO2 that might form. Nitrated lungs are not good
or
>your continued health.
>
>Bill
Simply bubbling the gasses through several traps comtaining NaOH or KOH
(but not Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 because of CO2 production) will remove the other
nitrogen oxides because all of these oxides EXCEPT N2O form acid solutions.
--
If mail barfs, send it to the ip #: aan...@130.253.192.68
dAdaMatriX
I've lost my memories to all my fears...
Stephen Jacobs
>In article <1992Aug4.1...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> bi...@hpcvaac.cv.hp.c
>m (bill nelson) writes:
>
>
> Simply bubbling the gasses through several traps comtaining NaOH or KOH
>(but not Na2CO3 or NaHCO3 because of CO2 production) will remove the other
>nitrogen oxides because all of these oxides EXCEPT N2O form acid solutions.
>
alkali is that the kinetics of dissolution are slow. The equilibrium
may be clean and wholesome, but the stuffthat comes out of the system under
real working conditions isn't trustworthy.
Not to be more of a killjoy than necessary, N2O is readily available and not
too expensive. If you want to play with it, and have a high regard for your
life, why not buy the stuff? The little cartridges that go into whipped cream
bottles are N2O. Those with the right kind of lab access can simply steal
a little. For reference: in addition to being used in atomic spectroscopy,
N2O is also interesting as a supercritical solvent and as a reagent gas in
CI mass spec.
For the classic 'ether party,' I'd recommend ether (anesthetic grade of
course). Nobody should be dumb enough to smoke near it, and its irritant
properties reduce the risk of somebody forgetting to breathe.
Steve s...@chinet.chi.il.us
Arno Hahma
>Back when I was a student I learned that nitrous oxide can be made by gentle
>heating of ammonium nitrate. You also get water vapour produced as well, so
>this would have to be removed by cold trapping before you would get fairly
>pure N2O. There should not be any other oxides of nitrogen present but if
>there is any ammonium nitrite this will decompose to nitrogen gas.
That is true. However, heating pure ammonium nitrate will lead to
several kinds of decomposition and other oxides of nitrogen are
formed, although in small amounts. Others have already pointed out
that the other oxides of nitrogen are poisonous.
A better alternative is to add some water (a couple of per cent of the
weight of the ammonium nitrate) and a phosphate, say calcium
phosphate. Any phosphates will catalyze the decomposition greatly and
it will take place a few ten centigrades lower than without the
phosphate. The water is required to make the reacting mixture liquid
at a lower temperature at the start thus getting the catalyst and the
ammonium nitrate into a better contact.
They also make N2O industrially by heating ammonium nitrate with a
phosphate catalyst. The resulting N2O will be considerably purer than
that obtained from pure AN.
>Beware that ammonium nitrate is an explosive so small quantities and gentle
>heating are imperative.
Ammonium nitrate requires a strong detonator to be detonated as such.
As a mixture with organic fuels, it requires less strong a detonator,
a few grams of a high explosive may be enough.
Alternatively, extremely large amounts of ammonium nitrate
contaminated with organic impurities may explode, if set to fire.
Extremely large amounts here means tens of tons or more. So, ammonium
nitrate is pretty safe to handle and heat in a laboratory scale.
ArNO
2
Jack Belli
Namely,if you can buy something at a reasonable price and in the required
purity then don't bother making it.I would suggest a visit to the nearest lab
with an AA and filling your balloons,garbage bag or whatever with reagent
grade
N2O then have a gas..........................
Aloha,
Jack
PS: if your not near a lab bribe the workers at the local industrial gas
outlet.
David Knapp
> Are we forgetting one of the first things one learns as a synthetic chemist?
>Namely,if you can buy something at a reasonable price and in the required
>purity then don't bother making it.I would suggest a visit to the nearest lab
>with an AA and filling your balloons,garbage bag or whatever with reagent
>grade
>N2O then have a gas..........................
I would like to just add that this is a great way to have your *last* laugh.
Many people die each year from suffocation resulting from using this bag
technique. Some die because they pass out from the nitrous oxide, then
have their face buried in the bag. Two hospital janitors from my home
state died *at the same time* because they had both inhaled the latex
gloves they were taking tokes out of.
Perhaps you could use a rigid container; nitrous under glass? In any case,
think before you do that kind of stuff.
--
David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder
Highly Opinionated, Aging and kn...@spot.colorado.edu
Perpetual Student of Chemistry and Physics.
Write me for an argument on your favorite subject.
Vince Summers
Newsgroups: sci.chem
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I would like to echo that. Here in Virginia at Martha Jefferson Hospital
a patient died because the anaesthetist slipped in providing that instead
of proper breathing gas.
Vince Summers
vsum...@polaris.cv.nrao.edu