hi guys, here is my response to a posting by Peter Joseph vis-a-vis his talk topic for Hans' show on 9/10. you can find the link (and respond yourself) here: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunen.... i've copied and pasted the relevant segments below. i would love to hear your feedback as i think 9/11 truth is a pivotal issue to be clear about as a movement and chapter. *
"I'm simply going to describe how to deal with any protest group and how to get them oriented toward root causes and away from the us and them issue. 911 itself is actually irrelevant as a specific issue in this context. Also, I'm sorry to those who disagree, but I consider 911 a dead "social" issue now. It is the JFK assas. all over again and we saw how that turned out after 40 years. E Howard Hunt finally came forward in sorts on his death bed... and you will likely see people come forward who worked the 911 event in another 40 years. In other words, the energy put into it will likely see a neg. return. As a tool, it isn't going to do much - and, of course, it has been polluted by the Alex Jones mentalities who create an artificial context and hence stigma, which serves the establishment in the end - for the rhetoric is so irrational and idiotic." --Peter Joseph, 9/9/10*
"Peter, the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently pejorative and dismissive. they seem to belie a rather blatant feeling of superiority vis-a-vis Zeitgeist's outlook on root causes (an outlook that i agree with myself), but i don't think using words like "deal with" is appropriate. it strikes me as arrogant, and does nothing to try and include or enlighten others who may be working for positive change through a different method.
secondly, i think describing 9/11 as a "dead social issue" is completely unfounded and nearly insane. #1, if a small portion of the population knew the real truth of 9/11, the effects would likely be astronomical. it was, for example, the 9/11 segment in your first film that "awakened" me. #2, the event was not so long ago. and given that u.s. foreign and domestic policy today is a direct result of 9/11, 9/11 truth can potentially be the major game-changer in reeling in those policies and opening the door to alternatives like a resource-based economy. #3, 9/11 is a "real" issue to people, something they've experienced themselves and can relate to as they remember it firsthand. by striking 9/11 truth from the agenda, you're essentially eliminating the primary opportunity to jolt people in the american and global community out of their slumber.
building on this last point, i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this point. i know that a shift in consciousness is completely necessary before any legitimate change can happen. yet if that consciousness is not grounded in something real-world then ultimately it is at the same level as religion with it's ungrounded ideals of "compassion" and "love" that Jacque Fresco (and i with him) so oppose. i know that 9/11 truth has it's shortcomings, and yet i think that in terms of practical action-based opportunities it can offer far more to those yearning to get involved than the Zeitgeist Movement can. my approach is to advocate for 9/11 truth while never losing sight of it's being a symptom of a larger issue; i bring up alternatives like a resource-based economy to my 9/11 truth group whenever it seems appropriate.
i want to make it clear that i sincerely would like to see the movement succeed, which means initiating viable projects to implement it's ideas. in the absence of such projects, however, i am pulled to areas where i feel that concrete change is possible [i]in the now[/i]. at this point, direct actions seem to be [i]divergences[/i] from the official Zeitgeist Movement, a motion which i find totally backwards to true change. people need to be able to dive into something, and to affect change themselves, not wait for some grand blueprint to be implemented seemingly on it's own. i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin affecting concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will soon see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
“[The food control system,] Codex Alimentarius, is scheduled for full global implementation on December 31, 2009, and not a word has been spoken in main stream media about this threat to humanity. Yet, according to the projections based on figures from the World Health Organization and the Food and Agriculture Organization, a minimum of 3 billion people will die from the Codex mandated vitamin and mineral guideline alone.”
I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that simple.
Moety, i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most effective change. also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference between that and being strung out.
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote: > I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really > come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more > willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread > awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people > really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS > wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly > about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to > do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is > not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about > everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together > with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you > feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get > so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that > simple.
I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across instead of the focus being on the words "strung out" Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
Sender: znyc@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 To: <znyc@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: znyc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
Moety,
i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different
groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most
effective change.
also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with
getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the
chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference
between that and being strung out.
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really
> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more
> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread
> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people
> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS
> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly
> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to
> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is
> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about
> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together
> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you
> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get
> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that
> simple.
i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
Peter, i think we may agree on more than it might seem. i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that things will actually stay this way.
my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally accessible.
in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy. it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can begin with, here and now
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote: > I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a > difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things > more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be > stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it > shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback > on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across > instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® > ------------------------------ > *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com> > *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com > *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400 > *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com> > *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com > *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
> Moety, > i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different > groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most > effective change. > also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with > getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the > chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference > between that and being strung out.
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really >> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more >> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread >> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people >> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS >> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly >> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to >> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is >> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about >> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together >> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you >> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get >> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that >> simple.
Hello people,
I've been away for some time... Traveling, and then some priorities
came up, but now I am back from the mountains to say this:
Peter is right, he has more experience, his word, be it opinion or
fact, is more credible... It's obvious and your can verify that he
knows what he's saying and doing and personally, I feel that he
deserves to be called a good leader (He founded the movement, so let's
not play, "O, I don't like positions of power to be assigned to him or
her or me, cuz that goes against our beliefs"... Let's not get caught
up in or victimized by our self-inflicted dogma and Belief Systems
(BS)... Peter knows when to quit-it in and which subjects to quit-
it... He is one of the few people that I've witnessed who can avoid
becoming victim of his own dogma and avoid creating and projecting a
belief system... He connects and projects logic and reflects what the
world has become so well in his movies.... He's done a lot of fucking
work, and this movement has huge fucking impact on people all over the
world because it means a lot and touches the fucking core of this
planet's most dire problems and where these problems (seen as "The way
things are") will eventually lead us... The movement is a major veil
lifter, it pulls the wool off of people's eyes... now, if you've
already been disillusioned, then GREAT, go ahead, help out TZM, and
start whatever project(s) you like... The goal is to make this more
popular, it is F-ing inspirational and we need people with skills,
like scientists, engineers, and Students, to get involved, because it
is the people that will make the changes we all want so terribly to
see happen Now and Quickly... This is not a Fast-Food Movement, just
like Medical Orgone Therapy takes years for the individual to reach
their maximum potential of psychological, physiological, sexual, and
social freedom....
Projects can and will be started, just because Peter doesn't give the
command, doesn't mean you can't start a project under The Zeitgeist
Flag... And, from all the projects and movements and things that I've
seen and researched, The Zeitgeist Movement IS Superior... Those
involved have a right to arrogance, because this movement fills in all
the gaps where others lack... The action is up TO YOU!!! not The
Movement... You are the movement...
I was also away because I needed to meditate on some things and work
on personal enhancement, we can all agree that TZM does promote such
stuff, as it's centered around the expansion of consciousness... If
you want to see where real work is being done, look at the Orgonomists
and the science of Orgonomy - this really seems like (to me) the
medical side of The Zeitgeist Movement where people's brains and
bodies are being "fixed" or brought back to their natural unarmored
state of being - this is why I want so much to get The Orgonomists
(The American College of Orgonomy: www.orgonomy.org) and The Zeitgeist
Movement, (The founders) Peter and Co., at the same table along with
other scientists as I've talked about sooo much in previous posts....
In my opinion, if you want to see stuff happen, get all those other
groups and people who are DOING STUFF involved with TZM, and MERGE
FORCES under the Zeitgeist Flag!!!
Thank you,
Cosmic Ape
On Sep 14, 5:12 pm, "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
> Peter,
> i think we may agree on more than it might seem.
> i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent
> showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for
> opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york
> city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about
> fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that
> things will actually stay this way.
> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical
> projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist
> Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and
> human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is
> already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do
> believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their
> outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this
> movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's
> credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally
> accessible.
> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of
> permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy.
> it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i
> advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods
> to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all
> people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not
> at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global
> permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me
> it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to
> fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can
> begin with, here and now
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> > I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a
> > difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things
> > more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be
> > stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it
> > shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback
> > on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across
> > instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> > ------------------------------
> > *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com>
> > *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com
> > *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400
> > *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com>
> > *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com
> > *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
> > Moety,
> > i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different
> > groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most
> > effective change.
> > also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with
> > getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the
> > chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference
> > between that and being strung out.
> > On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really
> >> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more
> >> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread
> >> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people
> >> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS
> >> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly
> >> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to
> >> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is
> >> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about
> >> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together
> >> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you
> >> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get
> >> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that
> >> simple.
for those who did not get a chance to view the link akimbo posted, here is Peter's response in text -->
the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently pejorative and dismissive.
You can project the assumption of a dismissive, pejorative and arrogant disposition all you like within my words - "deal with"- but that is not at all my intent or view.
I have spent literally 100s of hours on the issue of 911 and have been at ground zero talking to people for 6 years along with countless radio shows after Z1. I have analyzed the situation and, in my view now (take it or leave it), it has run its course and is a "dead issue" in the broad sense. The damage has been done and while the benefit of showing the government that we know some of their games is good - they will simply change strategies.
i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this point.
We offer the only complete solution that I know of. You want patchwork? - join some other group as well. We are in this for the long haul for the long view - change. I will leave it to the many other activist groups to diligently work the temporal angle and help. They are needed - but this is not the intent of TZM as those groups rarely present long term solutions. So, your notion of "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. We offer a total model based on a tremendous amount of research on the highest level and our goal is to get the world to understand this worldview and change based on reason, before it is too late.
i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin affecting concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement and Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will soon see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
My new film will show the reasoning for the change along the lines of human possibly coupled with the neg. bio-social pressures which are growing at at exponential rate. Virtually everything is now in decline on this planet and human life span decline (for the majority) is right around the corner.
I don't think that you understand that this change will happen one way or another. The only question is how much suffering you and everyone else will endure as it is fought while the system breaks down. It could take 30 years or it could take 300. It is up to you. There is a "point of no return" as well, so keep that in mind.
Anyone out there there who wants to focus on 911 as though its revelation is anything new or that it is somehow different from the dozens of other false flags which have gone unaddressed... as the war machine keeps going based on its mafia style need for control --- fine --- but don't be surprised when you figure out the threshold has been met and it is going nowhere. You need to focus your time and what will have the longest term gain. And even if it was fully exposed and people were put in the jail; the myth of terrorism and government policy of private invasion was lifted - IT WILL DO NOTHING TO FIX THE REASONS WHY THE EVENT AND THE POLICIES OCCURRED TO BEGIN WITH.
I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. This is exactly why I avoid the issue like the plague these days. All it does is distract. If you think 911 is more important than the on going cancer known as the economic system (which is where 911 actual spawned from) which will be what kills us all if change isn't made fast - go ahead. I have done my time and I'm Moving Forward. <--
and here is the radio address on Vimeo uploaded by Lovemoon
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 5:12 PM, KID.AKIMBO <kdaki...@gmail.com> wrote: > hi guys, > Peter responded to my comment on the forum. you can find his response here:
> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
> Peter, > i think we may agree on more than it might seem. > i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent > showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for > opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york > city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about > fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that > things will actually stay this way.
> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical > projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist > Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and > human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is > already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do > believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their > outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this > movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's > credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally > accessible.
> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of > permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy. > it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i > advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods > to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all > people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not > at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global > permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me > it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to > fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can > begin with, here and now
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a >> difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things >> more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be >> stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it >> shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback >> on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across >> instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® >> ------------------------------ >> *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com> >> *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com >> *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400 >> *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com> >> *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com >> *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
>> Moety, >> i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different >> groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most >> effective change. >> also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with >> getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the >> chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference >> between that and being strung out.
>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really >>> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more >>> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread >>> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people >>> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS >>> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly >>> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to >>> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is >>> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about >>> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together >>> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you >>> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get >>> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that >>> simple.
-- - Roberto Enamorado
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." - Albert Einstein"... And to understand is to transform what is." Jiddu Krishnamurti
Sender: znyc@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 10:22:00 To: <znyc@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: znyc@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
for those who did not get a chance to view the link akimbo posted, here is
Peter's response in text -->
the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently
pejorative and dismissive.
You can project the assumption of a dismissive, pejorative and arrogant
disposition all you like within my words - "deal with"- but that is not at
all my intent or view.
I have spent literally 100s of hours on the issue of 911 and have been at
ground zero talking to people for 6 years along with countless radio shows
after Z1. I have analyzed the situation and, in my view now (take it or
leave it), it has run its course and is a "dead issue" in the broad sense.
The damage has been done and while the benefit of showing the government
that we know some of their games is good - they will simply change
strategies.
i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior
stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the
physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this point.
We offer the only complete solution that I know of. You want patchwork? -
join some other group as well. We are in this for the long haul for the long
view - change. I will leave it to the many other activist groups to
diligently work the temporal angle and help. They are needed - but this is
not the intent of TZM as those groups rarely present long term solutions.
So, your notion of "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. We offer a
total model based on a tremendous amount of research on the highest level
and our goal is to get the world to understand this worldview and change
based on reason, before it is too late.
i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin affecting
concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement and
Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and
accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will soon
see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if
not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
My new film will show the reasoning for the change along the lines of human
possibly coupled with the neg. bio-social pressures which are growing at at
exponential rate. Virtually everything is now in decline on this planet and
human life span decline (for the majority) is right around the corner.
I don't think that you understand that this change will happen one way or
another. The only question is how much suffering you and everyone else will
endure as it is fought while the system breaks down. It could take 30 years
or it could take 300. It is up to you. There is a "point of no return" as
well, so keep that in mind.
Anyone out there there who wants to focus on 911 as though its revelation is
anything new or that it is somehow different from the dozens of other false
flags which have gone unaddressed... as the war machine keeps going based on
its mafia style need for control --- fine --- but don't be surprised when
you figure out the threshold has been met and it is going nowhere. You need
to focus your time and what will have the longest term gain. And even if it
was fully exposed and people were put in the jail; the myth of terrorism and
government policy of private invasion was lifted - IT WILL DO NOTHING TO FIX
THE REASONS WHY THE EVENT AND THE POLICIES OCCURRED TO BEGIN WITH.
I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. This is exactly why I avoid
the issue like the plague these days. All it does is distract. If you think
911 is more important than the on going cancer known as the economic system
(which is where 911 actual spawned from) which will be what kills us all if
change isn't made fast - go ahead. I have done my time and I'm Moving
Forward. <--
and here is the radio address on Vimeo uploaded by Lovemoon
> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
> Peter,
> i think we may agree on more than it might seem.
> i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent
> showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for
> opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york
> city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about
> fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that
> things will actually stay this way.
> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical
> projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist
> Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and
> human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is
> already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do
> believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their
> outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this
> movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's
> credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally
> accessible.
> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of
> permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy.
> it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i
> advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods
> to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all
> people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not
> at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global
> permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me
> it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to
> fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can
> begin with, here and now
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a
>> difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things
>> more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be
>> stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it
>> shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback
>> on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across
>> instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com>
>> *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com
>> *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400
>> *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com>
>> *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
>> Moety,
>> i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different
>> groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most
>> effective change.
>> also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with
>> getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the
>> chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference
>> between that and being strung out.
>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really
>>> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more
>>> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread
>>> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people
>>> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS
>>> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly
>>> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to
>>> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is
>>> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about
>>> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together
>>> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you
>>> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get
>>> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that
>>> simple.
-- - Roberto Enamorado
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
- Albert Einstein"... And to understand is to transform what is." Jiddu
Krishnamurti
>for those who did not get a chance to view the link akimbo posted, here is >Peter's response in text -->
>the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently >pejorative and dismissive.
>You can project the assumption of a dismissive, pejorative and arrogant >disposition all you like within my words - "deal with"- but that is not at >all my intent or view.
>I have spent literally 100s of hours on the issue of 911 and have been at >ground zero talking to people for 6 years along with countless radio shows >after Z1. I have analyzed the situation and, in my view now (take it or >leave it), it has run its course and is a "dead issue" in the broad sense. >The damage has been done and while the benefit of showing the government >that we know some of their games is good - they will simply change >strategies.
>i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior >stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the >physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this point.
>We offer the only complete solution that I know of. You want patchwork? - >join some other group as well. We are in this for the long haul for the long >view - change. I will leave it to the many other activist groups to >diligently work the temporal angle and help. They are needed - but this is >not the intent of TZM as those groups rarely present long term solutions. >So, your notion of "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. We offer a >total model based on a tremendous amount of research on the highest level >and our goal is to get the world to understand this worldview and change >based on reason, before it is too late.
>i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin affecting >concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement and >Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and >accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will soon >see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if >not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
>My new film will show the reasoning for the change along the lines of human >possibly coupled with the neg. bio-social pressures which are growing at at >exponential rate. Virtually everything is now in decline on this planet and >human life span decline (for the majority) is right around the corner.
>I don't think that you understand that this change will happen one way or >another. The only question is how much suffering you and everyone else will >endure as it is fought while the system breaks down. It could take 30 years >or it could take 300. It is up to you. There is a "point of no return" as >well, so keep that in mind.
>Anyone out there there who wants to focus on 911 as though its revelation is >anything new or that it is somehow different from the dozens of other false >flags which have gone unaddressed... as the war machine keeps going based on >its mafia style need for control --- fine --- but don't be surprised when >you figure out the threshold has been met and it is going nowhere. You need >to focus your time and what will have the longest term gain. And even if it >was fully exposed and people were put in the jail; the myth of terrorism and >government policy of private invasion was lifted - IT WILL DO NOTHING TO FIX >THE REASONS WHY THE EVENT AND THE POLICIES OCCURRED TO BEGIN WITH.
>I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. This is exactly why I avoid >the issue like the plague these days. All it does is distract. If you think >911 is more important than the on going cancer known as the economic system >(which is where 911 actual spawned from) which will be what kills us all if >change isn't made fast - go ahead. I have done my time and I'm Moving >Forward. <--
>and here is the radio address on Vimeo uploaded by Lovemoon
>> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
>> Peter, >> i think we may agree on more than it might seem. >> i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent >> showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for >> opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york >> city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about >> fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that >> things will actually stay this way.
>> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical >> projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist >> Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and >> human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is >> already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do >> believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their >> outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this >> movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's >> credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally >> accessible.
>> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of >> permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy. >> it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i >> advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods >> to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all >> people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not >> at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global >> permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me >> it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to >> fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can >> begin with, here and now
>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a >>> difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things >>> more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be >>> stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it >>> shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback >>> on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across >>> instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
>>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com> >>> *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com >>> *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400 >>> *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com> >>> *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com >>> *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
>>> Moety, >>> i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different >>> groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most >>> effective change. >>> also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with >>> getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the >>> chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference >>> between that and being strung out.
>>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
>>>> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really >>>> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more >>>> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread >>>> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people >>>> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS >>>> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly >>>> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to >>>> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is >>>> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about >>>> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together >>>> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you >>>> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get >>>> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that >>>> simple.
>-- >- Roberto Enamorado
>"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." >- Albert Einstein"... And to understand is to transform what is." Jiddu >Krishnamurti
> Thanks Roberto. These are very profound statements indeed. Many ideas to think about. The extent to PJ's knowledge is compelling.
> On Wed Sep 15th, 2010 10:22 AM EDT Roberto Enamorado wrote:
> >for those who did not get a chance to view the link akimbo posted, here is
> >Peter's response in text -->
> >the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently
> >pejorative and dismissive.
> >You can project the assumption of a dismissive, pejorative and arrogant
> >disposition all you like within my words - "deal with"- but that is not at
> >all my intent or view.
> >I have spent literally 100s of hours on the issue of 911 and have been at
> >ground zero talking to people for 6 years along with countless radio shows
> >after Z1. I have analyzed the situation and, in my view now (take it or
> >leave it), it has run its course and is a "dead issue" in the broad sense.
> >The damage has been done and while the benefit of showing the government
> >that we know some of their games is good - they will simply change
> >strategies.
> >i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior
> >stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the
> >physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this point.
> >We offer the only complete solution that I know of. You want patchwork? -
> >join some other group as well. We are in this for the long haul for the long
> >view - change. I will leave it to the many other activist groups to
> >diligently work the temporal angle and help. They are needed - but this is
> >not the intent of TZM as those groups rarely present long term solutions.
> >So, your notion of "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. We offer a
> >total model based on a tremendous amount of research on the highest level
> >and our goal is to get the world to understand this worldview and change
> >based on reason, before it is too late.
> >i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin affecting
> >concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement and
> >Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and
> >accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will soon
> >see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if
> >not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
> >My new film will show the reasoning for the change along the lines of human
> >possibly coupled with the neg. bio-social pressures which are growing at at
> >exponential rate. Virtually everything is now in decline on this planet and
> >human life span decline (for the majority) is right around the corner.
> >I don't think that you understand that this change will happen one way or
> >another. The only question is how much suffering you and everyone else will
> >endure as it is fought while the system breaks down. It could take 30 years
> >or it could take 300. It is up to you. There is a "point of no return" as
> >well, so keep that in mind.
> >Anyone out there there who wants to focus on 911 as though its revelation is
> >anything new or that it is somehow different from the dozens of other false
> >flags which have gone unaddressed... as the war machine keeps going based on
> >its mafia style need for control --- fine --- but don't be surprised when
> >you figure out the threshold has been met and it is going nowhere. You need
> >to focus your time and what will have the longest term gain. And even if it
> >was fully exposed and people were put in the jail; the myth of terrorism and
> >government policy of private invasion was lifted - IT WILL DO NOTHING TO FIX
> >THE REASONS WHY THE EVENT AND THE POLICIES OCCURRED TO BEGIN WITH.
> >I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. This is exactly why I avoid
> >the issue like the plague these days. All it does is distract. If you think
> >911 is more important than the on going cancer known as the economic system
> >(which is where 911 actual spawned from) which will be what kills us all if
> >change isn't made fast - go ahead. I have done my time and I'm Moving
> >Forward. <--
> >and here is the radio address on Vimeo uploaded by Lovemoon
> >> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read it.
> >> Peter,
> >> i think we may agree on more than it might seem.
> >> i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and recent
> >> showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for
> >> opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new york
> >> city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about
> >> fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and think that
> >> things will actually stay this way.
> >> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical
> >> projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The Zeitgeist
> >> Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population and
> >> human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it is
> >> already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. i do
> >> believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of their
> >> outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this
> >> movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the movement's
> >> credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is universally
> >> accessible.
> >> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the principles of
> >> permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based economy.
> >> it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i
> >> advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as methods
> >> to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that all
> >> people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future and not
> >> at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global
> >> permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. to me
> >> it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come to
> >> fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we can
> >> begin with, here and now
> >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a
> >>> difference in opinion and approach. Some people are going to find things
> >>> more important then others and that's fine. Peoples toes are going to be
> >>> stepped every now and again from choice of words. If it's not malicious it
> >>> shouldn't be taken so seriously. As u said you were interested in feedback
> >>> on this and I gave it from my perspective. I hope my point came across
> >>> instead of the focus being on the words "strung out"
> >>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>> *From: * "KID.AKIMBO" <kdaki...@gmail.com>
> >>> *Sender: * znyc@googlegroups.com
> >>> *Date: *Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:28:37 -0400
> >>> *To: *<znyc@googlegroups.com>
> >>> *ReplyTo: * znyc@googlegroups.com
> >>> *Subject: *Re: my response to Peter's post re: 9/11
> >>> Moety,
> >>> i hope it's clear i wasn't asking for permission. i work with different
> >>> groups and different techniques as i see fit to try to make the most
> >>> effective change.
> >>> also, i find it a little worrisome to equate engaging in a dialogue with
> >>> getting "strung out." i logically expressed my opinions to Peter and the
> >>> chapter as i think it's a important issue to discuss. there's a difference
> >>> between that and being strung out.
> >>> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 08:52, <Moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>>> I am with PJ on this one. 9 years have passed and nothing has really
> >>>> come of it. Like most of us, we agree some of these people will be more
> >>>> willing to hear us out. So 9/11 serves as a good platform to spread
> >>>> awareness. There is so many things going on now that we can say if people
> >>>> really knew the truth things will change like the economy, oil spills, BS
> >>>> wars, etc, etc, etc. People will gravitate to the things they feel strongly
> >>>> about, and they should do so. They don't need the approval from anyone to
> >>>> do such. Seriously, PJ was giving his opinion on the matter. His word is
> >>>> not the end all. If people don't agree, which will happen on just about
> >>>> everything, (as we saw with something as simple as post cards) get together
> >>>> with others that feel the same in and outside the movement and do what you
> >>>> feel is right. There is no one way to go about this and people shouldn't get
> >>>> so strung out over different opinions on different matters. To me it's that
> >>>> simple.
> >--
> >- Roberto Enamorado
> >"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding."
> >- Albert Einstein"... And to understand is to transform what is." Jiddu
> >Krishnamurti
here's a posting from a Z member in argentina. it's obvious that english isn't a first language for this person, yet i think his(?) points shine through quite brilliantly. i placed my emphasis on text in blue. you can direct link here: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_kunen...
"*What? 911 a dead "social" issue? There are a million of deaths and you say "dead 'social' issue"? There are a world fool it and we do nothing? There are wars and genocides excused on 911 and we do no nothing? There are wars in preparation and will not do anything about it?*
Peter, we are join here to do what? Wait you new film and feel us "revolutionaries"? There are a world in problem *Now*. The system is lie us. We must shout it with the true. The 911 is a big, big lie and we don't do nothing? The 911 is a excuse for the system to make a real 1984 in our homes and we don't must fight? Somebody say "New World Order" and you response is:"Alex Jones lies". Alex Jones is a little boy. Forget him and confront the real problem. The elite are a one and single discourse. They are coordinated. They are a single organization. Call it mafia or wethever. They are the enemy becouse they fight against the changes we want but we do nothing.
The system is seek, and we must fix it. But doing stufs, not waiting a magical "critical mass". The fascism is growing and growing and we do nothing. The Big Brother are more big and less brother and we do not protest. There are genocides in Honduras support for US govern and we say nothing. These genocides walk to all us (if we don't worry about innocents in Honduras). If we stand here doing nothing and think about the utopic world we make in the future, we are lost. We must make the future now, becouse now we are in problem.
The revolution is now and now we don't protest, don't march, don't nothing but talk. This is your revolution?
The revolution is now and may be ir paceful, but the revolution are not the big nothing we doing here. We must go to street to protest. We must confronting the big war in course and the futures wars in preparation. We must condemn the invasion of Iraq, the coup in Honduras, the threat to any country that does not obey the U.S.
We must make the change we want. Not just waiting it.
* If we continue to expect to be more numerous. If we keep waiting for the planet to change its consciousness. If we keep talking we will meet the shackles standing before a firing squad. The enemy (because there is an enemy) is moving faster than us.*"
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 16:56, ms_sadia_has...@yahoo.com <
sayyeda.has...@gmail.com> wrote: > Whew... That's perspective for ya!. I concur.
> On Sep 15, 10:47 am, Maria Jones <masju2...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Thanks Roberto. These are very profound statements indeed. Many ideas to > think about. The extent to PJ's knowledge is compelling.
> > On Wed Sep 15th, 2010 10:22 AM EDT Roberto Enamorado wrote:
> > >for those who did not get a chance to view the link akimbo posted, here > is > > >Peter's response in text -->
> > >the words "deal with" in reference to protest groups is inherently > > >pejorative and dismissive.
> > >You can project the assumption of a dismissive, pejorative and arrogant > > >disposition all you like within my words - "deal with"- but that is not > at > > >all my intent or view.
> > >I have spent literally 100s of hours on the issue of 911 and have been > at > > >ground zero talking to people for 6 years along with countless radio > shows > > >after Z1. I have analyzed the situation and, in my view now (take it or > > >leave it), it has run its course and is a "dead issue" in the broad > sense. > > >The damage has been done and while the benefit of showing the government > > >that we know some of their games is good - they will simply change > > >strategies.
> > >i would like to point out the irony in the Zeitgeist Movement's superior > > >stance regarding root causes while offering ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the > > >physical world in terms of a viable alternative for people at this > point.
> > >We offer the only complete solution that I know of. You want patchwork? > - > > >join some other group as well. We are in this for the long haul for the > long > > >view - change. I will leave it to the many other activist groups to > > >diligently work the temporal angle and help. They are needed - but this > is > > >not the intent of TZM as those groups rarely present long term > solutions. > > >So, your notion of "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. We offer a > > >total model based on a tremendous amount of research on the highest > level > > >and our goal is to get the world to understand this worldview and change > > >based on reason, before it is too late.
> > >i hope that your next film will offer some literal steps to begin > affecting > > >concrete change together as a movement. if not, the Zeitgeist Movement > and > > >Venus Project will remain grandiose ideals (however well-founded and > > >accurate) which are inaccessible to the common person. i hope we will > soon > > >see the importance of implementing the policies we would like to see. if > > >not, there can be no hope of seeing them come to fruition.
> > >My new film will show the reasoning for the change along the lines of > human > > >possibly coupled with the neg. bio-social pressures which are growing at > at > > >exponential rate. Virtually everything is now in decline on this planet > and > > >human life span decline (for the majority) is right around the corner.
> > >I don't think that you understand that this change will happen one way > or > > >another. The only question is how much suffering you and everyone else > will > > >endure as it is fought while the system breaks down. It could take 30 > years > > >or it could take 300. It is up to you. There is a "point of no return" > as > > >well, so keep that in mind.
> > >Anyone out there there who wants to focus on 911 as though its > revelation is > > >anything new or that it is somehow different from the dozens of other > false > > >flags which have gone unaddressed... as the war machine keeps going > based on > > >its mafia style need for control --- fine --- but don't be surprised > when > > >you figure out the threshold has been met and it is going nowhere. You > need > > >to focus your time and what will have the longest term gain. And even if > it > > >was fully exposed and people were put in the jail; the myth of terrorism > and > > >government policy of private invasion was lifted - IT WILL DO NOTHING TO > FIX > > >THE REASONS WHY THE EVENT AND THE POLICIES OCCURRED TO BEGIN WITH.
> > >I'm not going to respond to this thread anymore. This is exactly why I > avoid > > >the issue like the plague these days. All it does is distract. If you > think > > >911 is more important than the on going cancer known as the economic > system > > >(which is where 911 actual spawned from) which will be what kills us all > if > > >change isn't made fast - go ahead. I have done my time and I'm Moving > > >Forward. <--
> > >and here is the radio address on Vimeo uploaded by Lovemoon
> > >> i responded in kind (pasted below). i hope he gets a chance to read > it.
> > >> Peter, > > >> i think we may agree on more than it might seem. > > >> i don't think 9/11 is a revelation, perhaps just the most major and > recent > > >> showcase of our broken system. i advocate for using it as a means for > > >> opening people's minds to the desperate need for change. i live in new > york > > >> city and many people i speak to have no interest in bringing about > > >> fundamental change. they're quite happy with how things are-- and > think that > > >> things will actually stay this way.
> > >> my use of the words "ABSOLUTELY NOTHING" were in reference to physical > > >> projects of which none, as of yet, have been put forward by The > Zeitgeist > > >> Movement. it is precisely because i am aware of the coming population > and > > >> human life span decline (reminding myself that in other countries it > is > > >> already so) that i so strongly advocate for projects to be initiated. > i do > > >> believe that TZM and The Venus Project have offered much in terms of > their > > >> outlook and focus on root causes (there's a reason i'm part of this > > >> movement) but i find it irresponsible and detrimental to the > movement's > > >> credibility to not put forth some kind of working model which is > universally > > >> accessible.
> > >> in terms of my own work, i am a certified permaculturist. the > principles of > > >> permaculture incorporate most of the principles of a resource-based > economy. > > >> it's wonderful to see them work so effortlessly in the real world. i > > >> advocate for a return to self-sustainability and bioregionalism as > methods > > >> to transition to a resource-based economy as these are techniques that > all > > >> people can employ here and now, and not at some point in the future > and not > > >> at the level of theory. i wonder if TZM would ever advocate a global > > >> permaculture movement as a means to achieve a resource-based economy. > to me > > >> it seems that if we were actually interested in seeing our dream come > to > > >> fruition, we would initiate a project like this. something tangible we > can > > >> begin with, here and now
> > >> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:52, <moe...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >>> I was speaking in general how people seem to worry to much about a > > >>> difference in
