供參考 Why Is the Chinese Government Blocking Chinese Wikipedia?

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Han-Teng Liao

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Dec 15, 2009, 1:15:45 AM12/15/09
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Suo Huijun (索慧君): Why Is the Chinese Government Blocking Chinese Wikipedia?

Suo Huijun (索慧君) is a masters student in the New Media Center, School of Journalism and Communication of Tsinghua University. She recently published a paper on the development of wiki in China. In the paper, she interviewed a anonymous government official who is working in one of an Internet control agencies. The following are some excerpts of her interview of the conversation regarding Wikipedia, translated by CDT:

When asked about the Chinese government’s attitude toward Wikipedia, this official said: “Actually, the government had conflicted thoughts during the back and forth process of blocking – unblocking – blocking Wikipedia. … On the one hand, Wikipedia is very valuable in terms of accumulating and spreading knowledge and culture. On the other hand, this means of communication could also be used by a small group of anti-China elements, publishing information which will endanger state security, social stability, and ethnic unity.

When asked “How can Wikipedia threaten state security?” the official provided an argument which makes people think: “A small group of evil-doers has more strength then a large number of people with goodwill.” The official admits that most Wikipedia users have goodwill. But there are a small number of destructive elements whose actions are persistent and constant. The final result of this phenomenon is that “the strength of a small number of evil-doers will make Wikipedia into a platform spreading bad information, and threatening state security and social stability. ” “Knowledge and culture has many ways to progress; they will not be halted just because Wikipedia is blocked. But state security is a different matter. ”

Xi Shen

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Dec 15, 2009, 5:34:35 AM12/15/09
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so what should we conclude from that statement? shall we support the
block, because it is good for the state security?

the statement is meaningless.


2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com>:
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Han-Teng Liao

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Dec 15, 2009, 6:20:52 AM12/15/09
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香港的維基發展算是東亞水準之上的吧....

索文以美中的文化差異來說為何維基在中國沒能快速發展...

但就香港的文化指標來說,比較像中國而不是美國,但

維基發展是多元的,不是嗎?

http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_hong_kong.shtml

http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_china.shtml




2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com>
不過這老外是引用索的文章內的片段,來說明官員對一個碩士研究生說明的講法....

但是這算是首次官方承認封鎖維基百科,並提供理由依據,是吧?


索的論文的主要論點是,維基在中國發展慢,政治控制非主因,而是中國民族性格



2009/12/15 Xi Shen <david...@googlemail.com>

Han-Teng Liao

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Dec 15, 2009, 6:14:50 AM12/15/09
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不過這老外是引用索的文章內的片段,來說明官員對一個碩士研究生說明的講法....

但是這算是首次官方承認封鎖維基百科,並提供理由依據,是吧?


索的論文的主要論點是,維基在中國發展慢,政治控制非主因,而是中國民族性格



2009/12/15 Xi Shen <david...@googlemail.com>
so what should we conclude from that statement? shall we support the

Philip Tzou

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Dec 15, 2009, 10:18:37 AM12/15/09
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在被问及中国政府对维基百科的态度时,这位政府官员的回答出乎笔者预期:“其实,政府对维基百科反复的开放和封禁中,也表现出很矛盾的思想。”这位受访者是这样解释政府的“矛盾”思想的:“一方面,在知识文化的积累传播上,维基很有价值;但另一方面,这种传播方式也会被少数反华分子利用,发布危害国家安全、社会稳定、民族团结的信息。”

2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com>

Philip Tzou

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Dec 15, 2009, 10:19:33 AM12/15/09
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对了,这个来源之前我就贴到[[中文维基百科]]的讨论页去了。

2009/12/15 Philip Tzou <phili...@gmail.com>

Kevin Chao

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Dec 21, 2009, 3:35:59 AM12/21/09
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i think that wikipedia is building in the china and we think that it's fair ang good for our people and peoples to know the more knowladges in a fair and good way in free. it's not need u to buy a book or magazines and there's wikimania every year and  i think that wikipedia should be recognize in china in recent years.
and i hope to improve the devlpement of the wikipedia in china(include Hong Kong sar, Macao sar, and Chinese Taiwan), it's good to have a new view in china's opionos that 'book' for free. instead of Baibu and other encyclopedia.
 
if the management of taipei wikipedia and hongkong wikipedia and macao's wikipedians see this mail, if u  want to improve wikipedia in your district (of course mainland wikiners, too) plz send me a mail to zwm...@yahoo.com.cn
TKS !!!
 
Kevin Armstrong, Zhao

2009/12/15 Philip Tzou <phili...@gmail.com>

Kevin Chao

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Dec 21, 2009, 3:39:14 AM12/21/09
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it's not good for our country to block the wikipedia and if u do that u will make a mistake, that is said be too "LEFT" or "RIGHT" in china


 
2009/12/15 Xi Shen <david...@googlemail.com>

Ted Chien

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Dec 21, 2009, 4:01:11 AM12/21/09
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You can leave your ideas in this forum, we can see them.

We already have a Wikipedia website for the people who use Chinese (not just Chinese people, but also for Western people who love to use Chinese), all we can do now is to improve it and let all the Chinese people to know it so people can get benefits from it, and that needs eveyone's help in this mailing list, not just us people who formed the local chapters of Wikimedia Foundation.

BTW, there are Wikimedia Hong Kong / Wikimedia MaCao and Wikimedia Taiwan as local chapters of Wikimedia Foundation, not Wikipedia HK / Wikipedia MC / Wikipedia TW. Wikipedia is run by Wikimedia Foundation and can be edit by all of you, we just be there to help on promoting it

Regards,
Ted
Secretary
Wikimedia Taiwan


2009/12/21 Kevin Chao <zwm...@gmail.com>

Han-Teng Liao

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Dec 21, 2009, 4:19:17 AM12/21/09
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不知道您用英文表達意見是否比用中文表達意見來的清楚, 再者, 您對維基百科各
語種的運作, 以及各地方的維基媒體協會運作方式, 似乎有很大的誤解。參與某一
語種的維基百科, 和參與某一地方的維基媒體協會, 可以完全沒有關係。媒體協會
的工作人員和維基百科的編輯人員, 的相關產生流程也是互相獨立的。換句話說,
沒有所謂的台北維基, 香港維基或澳門維基的管理團隊 (你所說的 the
management of taipei wikipedia and hongkong wikipedia and macao's
wikipedians )

目前維基百科的改進計劃多以開放透明的方式進行, 此論壇也是公開的, 我想這對
我來說也許比發私人信到yahoo.com.cn的信箱好一些

Kevin Chao wrote:
> i think that wikipedia is building in the china and we think that it's
> fair ang good for our people and peoples to know the more knowladges
> in a fair and good way in free. it's not need u to buy a book or
> magazines and there's wikimania every year and i think that wikipedia
> should be recognize in china in recent years.
> and i hope to improve the devlpement of the wikipedia in china(include
> Hong Kong sar, Macao sar, and Chinese Taiwan), it's good to have a new
> view in china's opionos that 'book' for free. instead of Baibu and
> other encyclopedia.
>
> if the management of taipei wikipedia and hongkong wikipedia and
> macao's wikipedians see this mail, if u want to improve wikipedia in
> your district (of course mainland wikiners, too) plz send me a mail to

> zwm...@yahoo.com.cn <mailto:zwm...@yahoo.com.cn>


> TKS !!!
>
> Kevin Armstrong, Zhao
>
> 2009/12/15 Philip Tzou <phili...@gmail.com

> <mailto:phili...@gmail.com>>


>
> 对了,这个来源之前我就贴到[[中文维基百科]]的讨论页去了。
>
> 2009/12/15 Philip Tzou <phili...@gmail.com

> <mailto:phili...@gmail.com>>


>
> 中文原文来源:http://academic.mediachina.net/article.php?id=5476
>
> 在被问及中国政府对维基百科的态度时,这位政府官员的回答出乎笔者
> 预期:“其实,政府对维基百科反复的开放和封禁中,也表现出很矛盾
> 的思想。”这位受访者是这样解释政府的“矛盾”思想的:“一方面,在知
> 识文化的积累传播上,维基很有价值;但另一方面,这种传播方式也会
> 被少数反华分子利用,发布危害国家安全、社会稳定、民族团结的信息。”
>
> 2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com

> <mailto:han...@gmail.com>>


>
> 香港的維基發展算是東亞水準之上的吧....
>
> 索文以美中的文化差異來說為何維基在中國沒能快速發展...
>
> 但就香港的文化指標來說,比較像中國而不是美國,但
>
> 維基發展是多元的,不是嗎?
>
> http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_hong_kong.shtml
>
> http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofstede_china.shtml
>
>
>
>
>
> 2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com

> <mailto:han...@gmail.com>>
>
> 不過這老外是引用索的文章內的片段,來說明官員對一個碩士


> 研究生說明的講法....
>
> 但是這算是首次官方承認封鎖維基百科,並提供理由依據,是吧?
>
>
> 索的論文的主要論點是,維基在中國發展慢,政治控制非主
> 因,而是中國民族性格
>
>
>
> 2009/12/15 Xi Shen <david...@googlemail.com

> <mailto:david...@googlemail.com>>


>
> so what should we conclude from that statement?
> shall we support the
>
> block, because it is good for the state security?
>
> the statement is meaningless.
>
>
> 2009/12/15 Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com

> <mailto:han...@gmail.com>>:

> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia>
> >
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe>
> >
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe>
> > zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com>


> > 通 過 郵 件 和 新 聞 組 發 言 ﹙發 言 請 用 純
> 文 本﹚ :
> > zh_wikipedia ﹙AT﹚ googlegroups ﹙DOT﹚ com
> >
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese

> <http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese>


> > IRC Web 介 面 : http://urlcut.com/ircwiki
> > Wave : http://sn.im/tmiq7
> >
> > 維基百科 - 人人可編輯的自由百科
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> David Shen
>
> http://twitter.com/davidshen84/
> http://meme.yahoo.com/davidshen84/
>
> --
> 您 收 到 此 信 息 是 由 於 您 在 訂 閱 Google 群
> 組 “zh.wikipedia”
> 維 基 百 科 群 組 瀏 覽 訂 閱 與 取 消 :
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia

> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe
> zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe%0Azh_wikipedi...@googlegroups.com>


> 通 過 郵 件 和 新 聞 組 發 言 ﹙發 言 請 用 純 文
> 本﹚ :
> zh_wikipedia ﹙AT﹚ googlegroups ﹙DOT﹚ com
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese

> <http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese>


> IRC Web 介 面 : http://urlcut.com/ircwiki
> Wave : http://sn.im/tmiq7
>
> 維基百科 - 人人可編輯的自由百科
>
>
>
> --
> 您 收 到 此 信 息 是 由 於 您 在 訂 閱 Google 群 組
> “zh.wikipedia”
> 維 基 百 科 群 組 瀏 覽 訂 閱 與 取 消 :
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia

> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe>
> zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com>


> 通 過 郵 件 和 新 聞 組 發 言 ﹙發 言 請 用 純 文 本﹚ :
> zh_wikipedia ﹙AT﹚ googlegroups ﹙DOT﹚ com
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese

> <http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese>


> IRC Web 介 面 : http://urlcut.com/ircwiki
> Wave : http://sn.im/tmiq7
>
> 維基百科 - 人人可編輯的自由百科
>
>
>
> --
> 您 收 到 此 信 息 是 由 於 您 在 訂 閱 Google 群 組 “zh.wikipedia”
> 維 基 百 科 群 組 瀏 覽 訂 閱 與 取 消 :
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia

> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/subscribe>
> httpS://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe
> <https://groups.google.com/group/zh_wikipedia/boxsubscribe>
> zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:zh_wikipedia...@googlegroups.com>


> 通 過 郵 件 和 新 聞 組 發 言 ﹙發 言 請 用 純 文 本﹚ :
> zh_wikipedia ﹙AT﹚ googlegroups ﹙DOT﹚ com
> news://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese

> <http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.wikipedia.chinese>

Kevin Chao

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Dec 22, 2009, 6:32:32 PM12/22/09
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tks i know that wikipedia how to work in worldwide.
and i just mean wikipedians it is mean who use wikipedia [维基人] so i'll
have a idea for set up a league for wikiners in china.

tks

2009/12/21, Han-Teng Liao <han...@gmail.com>:

Kevin Chao

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Dec 22, 2009, 6:34:15 PM12/22/09
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Kevin Chao

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Dec 28, 2009, 3:15:12 AM12/28/09
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ok i think that wikipedia needs our intellingence and confidence to improve its developement in every coner of the world like that the google.com. And we also can be very good of using knowledge to do it better. And not to use it by the "a little of people" so that we can improve it in China or in other contries.
We can see that the YouTube.com had been blocked by chinese government a lot of times and we had already know that is very bad for us can't upload and watch the video on the biggest video website of the world and we can't do anything with it.
and lots of website like, facebook.com, flikers.com and blogger.com
it's not good to block them at all, but we can't find a good way to slove it. so the wikipedia has been a very good one. it can be read some in china mainland. 'Cos the government thought some of wikipedia is good, and some of it can harm the secruity of the mainland.
 
so why not can China's govroment be open like USA?  It's a problem, a BIG problem.

2009/12/23 Kevin Chao <zwm...@gmail.com>

上官良治

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Dec 28, 2009, 3:02:06 PM12/28/09
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2009.12.24王丹演講「如何看到一個真正的中國」

2009年12月24日王丹老師前來靜宜演講,現場提問熱烈,激 盪在場學生相當多的思考,值得推薦。本影像共分12個檔案。

我是個台灣人,我隔壁的那個強大的中國,我是想了解它的。
也許我還沒什麼能夠知識能夠發出有深度的評論,但至少我能夠看看各個不同的見解。

以上影片給各位參考(沒辦法翻牆的很遺憾,因為這是youtube的)

預祝中文維基的各位,新年快樂!

2009/12/28 Kevin Chao <zwm...@gmail.com>
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