Kits / Workshops / Projects

[Paul Rose]

Hey Guys,

I was reflecting on the ideas that were being thrown around about kits to be made to teach theory and get some hands on experience with the basics.
To be honest, for the ignorant like me, as I know next to nothing about electronics and remember very little about electricity. This sounds perfect for the newbie but clueless type like me.

Other than laziness, embarrassment and nervousness that comes with not knowing anything about a subject among those who do, one thing I held myself back with turning up was the lack of anything to do focus on. I do have my arcade stick project, but that really has been quite whimsical in nature to try and do anything, which is why I though an Arduino in there as well, might as well right?

At the very least if there were kits I invested in to do every week with help and guidance and a how / why it works (Which I think is the important part as too many resources on the web neglect this), it may have been a lot easier to keep motivated to come and learn as I went. Not saying that I ever felt from my first visit that things were not friendly and relaxed, more that I felt a bit lost with everything being so new and having no ideas other than "This sounds cool". At that point it was easier to go, "Hey I know how to play DoTA lets to that instead."

So from this angle I would love to help out and even invest if needed in getting kits together and scrapping material into the wiki to ease starting off with York Hackspace and electronics in general, as from my experience at least, starting is the hardest part.

So what do you guys have in mind? What direction do you want to take this in?

[Daniel Bailey]

I think you've summed up that quite well. In not so sure on having kits for everyone every week but a workshop every now and then and perhaps ongoing projects that offer opportunities for members to teach other members could be a step in the right direction.

Perhaps a monthly workshop sort of thing?

My only other thought was that if we start doing this, just in case there is a large turnout, we should probably aim for a week when we are the only group using guppies premises so that it doesn't get too hectic.

Maybe we could even have a project for everyone to contribute, one that it's better than the robot swarm that just faded out, one single interesting project that can get lots of people involved perhaps?

I think we should discuss this in detail either by email or at the next meeting.

Dan.

[Paul Rose]

> In not so sure on having kits for everyone every week

That wasn't my meaning. I more meant spec'ing up some simple projects
and ordering in the components to to have a couple sets of each build on
hand for those who want to build them / buy them. Maybe just some space
components box that in theory doesn't go anywhere. Then there is
something for newcommers with nothing on them to get into straight away
and join in with on the night. Providing there are kits with sufficient
reuse and range of activity, then those who know something can still
entertain themselves with more advanced things when others are
concentrating and maybe not as talkative.

>
> Perhaps a monthly workshop sort of thing?
>

I like this idea, as long as you can find a topic to work on every month
=] which I am sure you could. technique basics like soldering,
components, prototyping, bits of kit, programming, and that sort of thing

>
> My only other thought was that if we start doing this, just in case
> there is a large turnout, we should probably aim for a week when we
> are the only group using guppies premises so that it doesn't get too
> hectic.
>

So I assume from this there is going to be some sort of drive for
membership, or do you envisage that things will be so awesome that
people will get the WOM machine going bring new people in. Either way,
that is pretty cool and it could possibly render my suggestion about the
kits a bit dead. I was just thinking of having these things as people
some in in drips and drabs as they seem to. I mean it could easily be
kept up but then probably at the costs of subs for supplies and the need
to keep a stock check (boring stuff zzz)

> ongoing projects that offer opportunities for members to teach other
> members could be a step in the right direction.
>

> Maybe we could even have a project for everyone to contribute, one
> that it's better than the robot swarm that just faded out, one single
> interesting project that can get lots of people involved perhaps?
>

Grouped these as they are similar.

Having worked with people / societies / groups before, I can honestly
say that I have never seen this kind of thing work to a great degree.
Firstly, you have to agree on the project and if you have done it before
then I am sure you know the kind of discussion and politics that can
arise from it. The other thing, is that I find people tend to care more
when it is something they actually want to do. While they might agree
and join the project, they will get bored easy if they for some reason
can't or don't want to truly commit to it anymore. They will either
break away or at the worst stop turning up. This particular one has
cause me a lot of trouble in whilst I was doing KUBE Radio and running
the Gaming Soc at Keele.

I would say that it would be less imposing and less stressful to keep
the "bring your own projects" style of weekly meet (Aside form workshops
and the like) and then encouraging collaborations on projects say
desig,n hardware or programming, or having small competitions in groups
every now and then. I think that would be the best way to inspire this
kind of group work and would be a lot less effort then having to
co-ordinate a group project between such a fluid group of people who may
or may not be there each week.

>
> I think we should discuss this in detail either by email or at the
> next meeting.
>

Again from experience, this kind of admin stuff is always better over
email. Of course it will get talked about in person, but if the main
outcome is documented that leaves a clear trail for other future members
to know what, why and how things came to be. (Again another huge
frustration from society running!) and leaves more time for hacking
about in the meets =]


Well that turned into a wall of text... I really enjoyed running and
helping to run Soc's at uni. There was something about pushing things
forward and collaborating with the running of things that I really got a
kick out of, but I am very aware I am just a new face, feel free to tell
me to STFU or to pipe down if you are in a good mood =P At the very
least I would like to share my experiences to stop you guys getting in
the same often frustration and painful places as I have been already. I
am of course not savvy with that has been done before so I do apologise
if I am teaching you how to suck eggs!

--
Paul

[Daniel Bailey]

Aha, I understand now, yes it is probably a good idea to have a stock of some stuff for newcomers to do when they arrive with nothing. I remember when Matthew turned up one week with nothing, we showed him some stuff but he couldn't do much, fortunately he had sense and got himself an Arduino kit (after our recomendation) which was a wise idea. We should probably have some stuff handy, I'd start the list something like this;

 - Simple soldering kits for people who have never soldered before.

 - An Arduino starter kit for people that want to get into programming microcontrollers.

 - Breadboards and suitable components for showing people simple circuits if they want to get into electronics

 - <Your suggestions here...>

On the subject of possible large turnout on the workshop, I was thinking that (at least with the first workshop) we should have a drive for members or at least 'visitors' that can show others "Hey look I build an astable multivibrator at York Hackspace" or something like that to get the ball rolling and the word spreading.

If I remember correctly the other group (Aspire?) meets every other week? is that right? and so we could have a workshop sort of thing every other week they aren't there (once a month) just so that if there is a surge of 'visitors' on workshop days then Guppy won't drown in people (pardon the pun).

I think Paul is absolutely right about the group projects. Thinking back now, the robot swarm did fail horribly (as a team project/concept) and so a team project on the scale of Entire-Hackspace-Involvement is probably a bad idea. We do want everyone to be able to do something they are going to enjoy and not just something that they feel they would have to do because everyone else is. Smaller scale team projects may work but these would likely just be pairs working on something together or one person teaching the other rather than a "Right lets all do this" kind of thing.

Another list, this time a list of possible workshops;

This includes all of Paul's suggestions;

 - soldering

 - components

 - prototyping

 - bits of kit?

 - programming

And also

 - CAD design, possibly? (Be it solid models for print or PCB layouts, schematics etc.)

 - Again, feel free to suggest more.

I like this discussion. I think Paul has made some good points, and I pretty much agree with everything that has been said so far. I hope everyone else gets involved and makes some helpful suggestions or offers constructive criticism etc. Emails are indeed handy to look back at, I have several times already.

Keep going!

Dan.

[Daniel Bailey]

I'll mention now just incase... should we start to consider now methods of raising funds for a more spacious space or would that be something for a later discussion or is it more of a "lets wait and see" kind of thing.

Dan.

[John Cooper]

On 27/04/13 13:33, Paul Rose wrote:

Hey Guys,

I was reflecting on the ideas that were being thrown around about kits to be made to teach theory and get some hands on experience with the basics.
To be honest, for the ignorant like me, as I know next to nothing about electronics and remember very little about electricity. This sounds perfect for the newbie but clueless type like me.

Some Kits sounds like a great idea. A mixture of things that people can play with like an arduino kit and also something that can be take away. I am thinking things from a simple

http://www.makershed.com/product_p/mkdw3.htm - Blinky soldering kit
http://www.makershed.com/Supercap_Racer_Kit_p/mstin4.htm - Whizzy robot thing.
http://www.makershed.com/Learn_to_Solder_Decoration_p/mkls2.htm - Maybe get some YHS boards?
http://www.makershed.com/MintyBoost_Bundle_p/msbunmb.htm - Minty boost. but might be more than one night!

We don't have to use those kits, I think Nottingham make their own. Just so we have something that people can take away with them. Also they don't just have to be electronics. Desktop Trebuchet Kit? Screen printing T-Shirts is pretty easy.

http://nottinghack.org.uk/ Nottinghack do a lot of workshops that may be worth looking at.

Oh and badges. Everybody loves badges. http://www.adafruit.com/category/70

I don't mind chipping in some cash to get us started.

Anyway, heading to the Maker Faire tomorrow so will come back inspired no doubt.

john

Other than laziness, embarrassment and nervousness that comes with not knowing anything about a subject among those who do, one thing I held myself back with turning up was the lack of anything to do focus on. I do have my arcade stick project, but that really has been quite whimsical in nature to try and do anything, which is why I though an Arduino in there as well, might as well right?

At the very least if there were kits I invested in to do every week with help and guidance and a how / why it works (Which I think is the important part as too many resources on the web neglect this), it may have been a lot easier to keep motivated to come and learn as I went. Not saying that I ever felt from my first visit that things were not friendly and relaxed, more that I felt a bit lost with everything being so new and having no ideas other than "This sounds cool". At that point it was easier to go, "Hey I know how to play DoTA lets to that instead."

So from this angle I would love to help out and even invest if needed in getting kits together and scrapping material into the wiki to ease starting off with York Hackspace and electronics in general, as from my experience at least, starting is the hardest part.

So what do you guys have in mind? What direction do you want to take this in?

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[Daniel Bailey]

Those skill badges seem expensive. (Or do they seam expensive?) :D

[John Cooper]

On 27/04/13 22:51, Daniel Bailey wrote:

Those skill badges seem expensive. (Or do they seam expensive?) :D

They do a bit.

Saw these guys at the Maker Faire today, http://shrimping.it/blog/ which could be quite a good, and cheap thing to have in stock for when people turn up and want to get started with something that they can take away. ( Essentially they are the just an ATMEGA and programmer) People can build stuff on breadboards or learn to solder them on stripboard. Might be a good thing to start with.

john

[Bob Stone]

Hi!  My input would be, I'd like to see transfer of skills *between us, from and to each other* (and am consequently less bothered about total beginner projects aimed at 'folks who aren't us'. - to quote Marx(!), "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", and of course I've got a selfish eye on the things I particularly want to learn from others - Eagle and other circuit design, sending to Seeed or DesignSpark or other PCB fabrication, surface mount soldering with solder paste and a hot plate (through-hole is surely simple enough to not really warrant worrying about too much?), 3D cad design for 3D printers.  Tech stuff like charlieplexing vs simpler row/column cycling, Use of tools like Bus Pirate or OpenBench Logic Sniffer.  I've posted on my member page on the wiki a number of projects I've done, I imagine if others followed suit we might more easily find out what experience we've got to hand between us and what people might like to learn from what others have done.  Definitely though would be a good idea to have some sort of simple-ish kit on hand in the drawer for newcomer absolute beginners - although I've not been around all that long it sounds like there may be a history of folks turning up once and not returning, presumably not finding whatever it was they were looking for - I can see it being a fairly simple and inexpensive way to grab people's interest for more than that just-once session if we had on hand little blinky badges or miniature stylophone kits (£10) or similar "soldering plus software equals magic" projects for those who turn up out of the blue.

Have had a great day at Maker Faire, spoke to the Oomlout guys and told them we sent a sale their way from Matt with their great ARDX starter kit, also spoke to the guys from Phenoptix, Robosavvy and Pimoroni, all of whom I've bought from in the past (and bought another Raspberry Pi from Pimoroni plus their great Pibow case for it - a model A, better for electronics as it's a third of the current of the B).  I was wearing my LED matrix shirt, which turns out to be an awesome ice breaker with makers (who'd have thought!).  Some of the other Hackspaces had stands, I think Nottingham in particular had a hugely impressive array of great internal projects, but several of the others had stuff I really thought we could pretty much match if we pooled resources, I think we could exhibit at one of these shows if we put our minds to it.

BTW for those at the last Wednesday session - I got the motion hat / servo motion duplicator working, I only needed to change one line of code from where it was (not working) Weds, the trick of course is to work out which one - in my case I had a line predicated on "if (Serial.available()) { , which then went on to try to decode every part of a line of serial data, not spotting that this function would be 'true' if there was just one character of serial data available.  So, changing it to "if (Serial.available() >20) { //did the trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNdoKCMop9I

 

Bob :)

[Paul Rose]

I was in stitches when I realised what you were on about ^^

[Paul Rose]

Hi Bob!

> My input would be, I'd like to see transfer of skills *between us,
> from and to each other* (and am consequently less bothered about total
> beginner projects aimed at 'folks who aren't us'. - to quote Marx(!),
> "From each according to their ability, to each according to their
> needs", and of course I've got a selfish eye on the things I
> particularly want to learn from others

I think this is an important view as well, I may not have come across
that way, but I also do know the problems that can occur to over
pandering to new faces. Society fairs twice a year for three years =/.
However there was financial incentive involved with that and rules to
stop fundraising otherwise. Back to the point though.

It would be pointless to even try and do something for the lower
spectrum of skills without make sure the rest have ample attention, love
and care as well.

> - Eagle and other circuit design, sending to Seeed or DesignSpark or
> other PCB fabrication, surface mount soldering with solder paste and a
> hot plate (through-hole is surely simple enough to not really warrant
> worrying about too much?), 3D cad design for 3D printers. Tech stuff
> like charlieplexing vs simpler row/column cycling, Use of tools like
> Bus Pirate or OpenBench Logic Sniffer.

While some of that is over my head right now, (Charlieplexing sounds
cool after a google ^^) I am getting the feeling that some of those
topics would make good workshop material, as some of it is software and
some is something that requires more forethought? Like the surface mount
soldering?

> I've posted on my member page on the wiki a number of projects I've
> done, I imagine if others followed suit we might more easily find out
> what experience we've got to hand between us and what people might
> like to learn from what others have done.

I had another look at your wiki page. I have to say, you have been very
good at documenting what you have done, it is all too easy not to. And
board hoarding, I know it was mentioned last week but daaaannnng. I know
you are the man to come to when it comes to those!

> Definitely though would be a good idea to have some sort of
> simple-ish kit on hand in the drawer for newcomer absolute beginners -
> although I've not been around all that long it sounds like there may
> be a history of folks turning up once and not returning, presumably
> not finding whatever it was they were looking for - I can see it being
> a fairly simple and inexpensive way to grab people's interest for more
> than that just-once session if we had on hand little blinky badges or
> miniature stylophone kits (�10) or similar "soldering plus software
> equals magic" projects for those who turn up out of the blue.

I think you're right here, I didn't imagine anything too extensive as
the sort of bait and hook of getting people in. Maybe enough kit on hand
to do an electronics club project. http://electronicsclub.info they seem
to have had a face lift in the last few months, very welcome! Do take
homes sit well with people who turn up and receive? I have never really
experienced it to know.

> Have had a great day at Maker Faire, spoke to the Oomlout guys and
> told them we sent a sale their way from Matt with their great ARDX
> starter kit,

I looked into this myself. I even think I asked them if they did them
without the Ardunio as I already had one. then I forgot and bought a
general set of bits and bobs form bitsbox xD I have to say I did find
myself on their site a lot however.

> BTW for those at the last Wednesday session - I got the motion hat /
> servo motion duplicator working, I only needed to change one line of
> code from where it was (not working) Weds, the trick of course is to
> work out which one - in my case I had a line predicated on "if
> (Serial.available()) { , which then went on to try to decode every
> part of a line of serial data, not spotting that this function would
> be 'true' if there was just one character of serial data available.
> So, changing it to "if (Serial.available() >20) { //did the trick.

Well that feels like a violation of POLA/S :3 I would never have
expected anything but a boolean value from that function either.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNdoKCMop9I
Great to see it working. I don't know why but I instantly had the
feeling that a good dubstep mix could be made from that video with your
head bobbing round in time... =] Good to see all of your projects there
however! +1 sub if you are into that sort of thing.
> Bob :)

[Daniel Bailey]

If one thing's for sure so far it's that we all want kits for newcomers right?

I'm willing to buy some solder kits and project kits to put in the drawer, up to a particular budget.

I suppose we'll want a handful of super basic beginner solder kits bitsbox has a few, to keep it simple I thought that the LED ring kit would be good.

The sound generator looks interesting too.

I thought I might buy some of these along with an arduino kit in preparation for a soldering workshop. (The Arduino would be to entertain those that want more after completing a solder kit.)

Does this sound like a good idea?

Everyone buy kits and advertise a soldering workshop?

Would our organizational expert agree this is a good plan or do we need something more organised/sophisticated/thought-through?

OO! Just now (while writing this email) I had a good idea. How about solder kits that can be chained together somehow. (We might have to design these ourselves.) I was thinking something like a flip-flop counter kit that can be joined to other (identical) flip-flop counter kits to make a bigger counter. It would teach people about simple logic chips and offer a kind of team effort thing.

On second thoughts perhaps not a counter but an LED cylon kit that can be expanded to have a potentially infinite row of LEDs. As more people build kits the line of LEDs gets longer. This could be a really fun thing to do to get lots of people to turn up, learn to solder, have fun and then return for more next time.

I can design such a board and get them made at seeed if everyone likes this idea.