iCloud status update (29 October)

[Patrick Woolsey]

Good morning everyone,

As an update, we're continuing to work on problems which are blocking
iCloud support, though we unfortunately still do not have an ETA.

I apologize for the sparse postings, and I will continue posting updates
here at least monthly as well as upon any tangible changes.

Finally, I again thank you all for your continued patience.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com>
P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048

[David]

Patrick,

Am I reading too much into your update status when you say "I will continue to posting updates here at least monthly"?

Does this mean we are going to be waiting for "months" before you can complete your work on the update"?

I have to say I am getting a little worried.

DavidH

[Tripp Frohlichstein]

I am curious Patrick.   Many other applications are using iCloud.  What is it about Yojimbo (explained in a way us non-tech people can understand) and iCloud holding you up.  This is not an accusatory post - just curious.

Thank you.

Tripp Frohlichstein

@tfrohl

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[Cameron Saemann]

From what I understand, iCloud is not just "iCloud". There are three main ways to use iCloud, and the method that Yojimbo needs to use is called Core Data syncing, and from everything I've heard, it's a huge pain in the ass to implement. 

This is from another developer: "To say it has been a challenge would be an understatement — it has probably been one of the hardest tasks I have ever undertaken for a Mac or iOS app."

http://mentalfaculty.tumblr.com/post/23163747823/under-the-sheets-with-icloud-and-core-data-the-basics

[Paul Chernoff]

There are different ways applications use iCloud. The mechanisms for storing documents on iCloud (e.g. Pages or PDFpen) are different from from synching database records (Yojimbo). I don't know any program that is using iCloud that uses the same iCloud syncing mechanism.

--Paul

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 06:18 -0700 10/30/2012, David wrote:
>Patrick,
>
>Am I reading too much into your update status when you say "I will
>continue to posting updates here at least monthly"?

Yes, I believe you may be :-) as we will also provide updates upon any
material changes of status.

>Does this mean we are going to be waiting for "months" before you can
>complete your work on the update"?
>
>I have to say I am getting a little worried.

I hope not, though (as I mentioned yesterday) I regret we still can't
provide an ETA.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 13:06 -0500 10/29/2012, Tripp Frohlichstein wrote:
>I am curious Patrick. Many other applications are using iCloud. What is
>it about Yojimbo (explained in a way us non-tech people can understand)
>and iCloud holding you up. This is not an accusatory post - just curious.

I was just about to reply when I saw Cameron's post (thanks! :), which hits
the salient points. :-)


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[Tripp Frohlichstein]

Thank you very much.

Tripp

[Barta Endre]

Hi,

Things works well on the cloud both on OSX and on IOS.

Regards,

Endre

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 21:19 +0100 10/30/2012, Barta Endre wrote:
>
>Things works well on the cloud both on OSX and on IOS.
>

For the record :), Things doesn't use iCloud.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[Cameron Saemann]

They also spent years (plural) building their own syncing system. Not do overly defend the delay, because I really, really, want Yojimbo iCloud sync, but these are just facts.

[Phil Emery]

wow what a pain in the butt for BareBones.

So what happens in a few years when Apple decides to abandon the iCloud syncing system you're working on now? (like they did with mobile me, etc) 

There is a reason why Apple didn't want to depend on Google for it's maps.

Here's my vote: screw the iCloud, I don't think you can trust it. Use dropbox (or other such service). Have your master DB in the dropbox folder (or other shared folder system). The user has their own DB in their user folder, then do a sync between the master DB and the user DB at program boot/quit. You can deal with record syncing issues then.

Probably couldn't sync to iOS devices directly via dropbox but you could keep your present OSX/iOS set up you have now, and even enable record editing in iOS as you'd have a much better handle on your sync points.

just my 2¢

[Paul Chernoff]

I find that 1Password does a great job of syncing using DropBox between various Macs and iOS devices.

That said, I am not going to recommend that BareBones take this approach with Yojimbo. I have no idea of the difficulties involved with either approach and which is better suited for Yojimbo. I am sorry that this has become such a problem for BareBones and its customers (and me).

--Paul Chernoff

[Beau Giles]

I also think that iCloud would be more seamless for the end users; no need to install any software... and *cough* 'just works'.

And syncs in the background - being one of the main reasons I don't actually use 1Password on iOS as much as I'd like

[Shaun James]

I for one aren't interested in iCloud. I'd like to be able to edit and add records on the iOS device and just sync over wifi like now. It'd be faster, more reliable, and Apple won't be able to kill it off in a couple of years for the next "big buzzword thingy".

Shaun

[cubic....@fastmail.fm]

The fact that we have no syncing mechanism at all after all this time indicates that we will not be getting one. Seriously, the whole "oooh it is sooooo difficult to do with iCloud" is rubbish. Everybody else has managed it in days.

At this point, your decision on whether to continue using Yojimbo depends on how much syncing means to you, as Barebones doesn't want to implement sync.

[Charlie Garrison]

Good morning,

On 2/11/12 at 12:04 AM -0000, cubic....@fastmail.fm wrote:

>Seriously, the whole "oooh it is sooooo difficult to do with iCloud" is rubbish.

You haven't been following along, or you wouldn't be making such
blatantly false statements. So why bother saying anything at
all. Just read this thread again if you want real information.

>Everybody else has managed it in days.

"Everybody" also includes you; I'm sure others on this list
would love to see what you managed to accomplish with the iCloud
Core Data syncing in just a few days. Or was that a rubbish
statement from you.

As someone who has written database synching engines; I don't
envy BBSW or Apple with this one. It's far from trivial to solve.


Charlie

--
Ꮚ Charlie Garrison ♊ <garr...@zeta.org.au>

O< ascii ribbon campaign - stop html mail - www.asciiribbon.org
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[cubic....@fastmail.fm]

I _definitely_ reckon that the best response to pointing out the glaringly obvious is personal attacks. Perhaps, as well as apparently not knowing anything about programming or databases or database programming, I also have poor personal hygiene and a bit of a bad haircut?

[Cameron Saemann]

Sadly, none of what you said is true. 

On a side note, Apple has done a good job simplified the concept of iCloud to the public, but then screwing developers with a service not ready for prime time. People used to give Cultured Code a ton of hell for why they wouldn't "just use iCloud" as if it were a toggle you simply switched on in your app.

[Terry J Fundak]

Dear Cubic Archon,

I find that people who hide their identity and don't even sign there posts often say things that are not helpful and not polite ....

I think the response you got was because it sounded like you may not have read the previous several months of dialog that the rest of us customers of BareBone have been having....

Many of us loved Yojimbo ( i.e found it very useful under MobileMe which Apple broke for reasons that are beyond me.... ) and now we are disappointed and looking for understand of what to expect and when..... out of a new version of Yojimbo.

I don't think that anybody had express their disappointment any more loudy than I, but mostly, I was looking for a way to help BB get Apple to help BB or something.....or even know that I should move on.....

The June 2012 deadline has long past and we are still waiting.

Terry

_______________________________________
Terry J Fundak
Systems Engineer
Network Design and Security Solutions for SMBs
Tech Support - Client and Server Systems

TJSoftworks
1834 Chadwick Court
Santa Rosa, CA 95401
(707) 849-1000
(415) 877-1783
te...@tjsoftworks.com

[Seth Elgart]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 at 9:57 PM, cubic....@fastmail.fm wrote:

I _definitely_ reckon that the best response to pointing out the glaringly obvious is personal attacks. Perhaps, as well as apparently not knowing anything about programming or databases or database programming, I also have poor personal hygiene and a bit of a bad haircut?

I know nothing of your personal hygiene or your hair style. Which is as it should be. :-) 

But you say it was a personal attack and that your points were glaringly obvious, but to me it seems that neither is true. Have you actually read the thread? It goes back months and has a lot of good points in it. And while the response you got to me seemed somewhat annoyed, which was also my first response to what you wrote, but again to me it didn't seem like a personal attack against you but rather only a comment on what you said and the way you said it. You made some rather bold claims but offered up no evidence on which those were based. It's quite possible you *do* have evidence, but you certainly didn't include any in your email.

So let's look at what you said, shall we?

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 at 8:04 PM, cubic....@fastmail.fm wrote:

The fact that we have no syncing mechanism at all after all this time indicates that we will not be getting one.

Glaringly obvious? No, I don't think so. What do you base this on? We don't have one now but your statement will be easily falsified when one is released. Not only is your statement logically false, it may also be factually false at some point. We don't have an iCloud-based syncing mechanism today, that's true. But that does not logically show that we won't have one in the future. So, what evidence do you have for this?

 

Seriously, the whole "oooh it is sooooo difficult to do with iCloud" is rubbish.

Glaringly obvious? How? iCloud/Dropbox syncing of text files may not be all that difficult, but what Yojimbo does is several orders of magnitude more complex. You're asking a "simple" data storage app to do the same job as a database server and client, and that does not seem to me to be an easy job.

 

Everybody else has managed it in days.

Glaringly obvious? Who has done a similar job to what Yojimbo is facing? You have given no list of as-complex apps that already have it done. 

 

At this point, your decision on whether to continue using Yojimbo depends on how much syncing means to you, as Barebones doesn't want to implement sync.

Again, glaringly obvious? On what do you base this statement? Where is your evidence? Why would they *not* want to implement this most requested feature?

You've said four things here, claiming each of them to be so obvious as to need no explanation. However, you've not provided any evidence to back your claims. Based on what you've written it certainly seems like you feel these things are true, but feelings aren't facts until you've shown evidence. 

You're proclaiming things to be true which to at least several on this list feel to them like rubbish. That's not a personal attack, that's a request for something to back up your claims. 

What you do with your hygiene or your hair is your business. However, seemingly unsubstantiated claims made in a public forum may indeed get a few people annoyed at you when you don't provide anything on which to base your statements. 

I'm not attacking you, I just don't think you can simply "declare truth" and expect everyone to just up and believe you.

Seth

[Phillip Walker]

Right now, I'm experimenting with eWallet for my sensitive information (credit cards, passwords, etc) and evernote for everything else. As I've said in the past, I can live with my current syncing solution for Yojimbo (just syncing my iPad when I'm on the same network) and don't really care if it works with iCloud or not, but I can't live with not being able to edit Yojimbo notes on my mobile device. Others feel differently, of course.

[John W. Luther]

Troll.

[Charlie Garrison]

Good morning,

On 2/11/12 at 8:26 AM -0500, John W. Luther
<luth...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Troll.

Yep, I realized that with his second post. Unfortunately my
troll armour was being cleaned when I saw his first post, and I
got knocked off the bridge. Luckily I wasn't alone. :-)

>On 2/11/12 at 1:57 AM -0000, cubic....@fastmail.fm wrote:
>
>>I _definitely_ reckon that the best response to pointing out
>>the glaringly obvious is personal attacks. Perhaps, as well as
>>apparently not knowing anything about programming or databases
>>or database programming, I also have poor personal hygiene and
>>a bit of a bad haircut?

I made no personal attack, and not even any reference personal
hygiene. That troll needs to go back to school. Maybe he's proud
of his personal hygiene.


In an effort to stay on topic, after hearing the latest iCloud
update I was thinking more about Sidekick. How many of you are
using Sidekick to have Y on your phone (or iPad)? If so, how are
you implementing the syncing? And what app are you using to view
the data?

[Brian Brown-Cashdollar]

Not sure if you can comment on this or not, but are you working through the issues of syncing with CoreData, or are you waiting on Apple to make CoreData syncing more practical to implement in order to move forward?

Thanks,

For those of you considering alternative. I purchased 1Password over the summer for syncing purposes and as a hedge, and although I love that it has well developed products for iPad and iPhone, on the Mac, Yojimbo for me is just quicker and easier to use for me.

[Patrick Woolsey]

Yes, I can :-) and we are indeed working through the issues involved.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

At 07:17 -0800 11/12/2012, Brian Brown-Cashdollar wrote:
>Not sure if you can comment on this or not, but are you working through
>the issues of syncing with CoreData, or are you waiting on Apple to make
>CoreData syncing more practical to implement in order to move forward?
>
>Thanks,
>
>For those of you considering alternative. I purchased 1Password over the
>summer for syncing purposes and as a hedge, and although I love that it
>has well developed products for iPad and iPhone, on the Mac, Yojimbo for
>me is just quicker and easier to use for me.
>

[...]

[tacitus]

To be honest Patrick I would settle for the ability to input data to the iPad version and sync when I'm on the same LAN.  iCloud sync could come some time in the future although I appreciate that for many people it's a 'must have'.  

Regards,

On Monday, October 29, 2012 4:12:56 PM UTC, Patrick Woolsey wrote:

Good morning everyone,

As an update, we're continuing to work on problems which are blocking
iCloud support, though we unfortunately still do not have an ETA.

I apologize for the sparse postings, and I will continue posting updates
here at least monthly as well as upon any tangible changes.

Finally, I again thank you all for your continued patience.

Regards,

 Patrick Woolsey
==

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 23:32 -0800 11/12/2012, tacitus wrote:
>To be honest Patrick I would settle for the ability to input data to the
>iPad version and sync when I'm on the same LAN. iCloud sync could come
>some time in the future although I appreciate that for many people it's a
>'must have'.
>

Though I do understand the reason for your request, I regret that isn't
feasible for us to do in advance of iCloud support.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[Shaun James]

I'd be entirely satisfied with that :)

Shaun

--

[Archie Campbell]

Looks like it's about time for another monthly status update.  What's the latest?