iCloud status update (08 December)

[Patrick Woolsey]

Good afternoon everyone,

I have two updates to provide you today:

First, we are still working to complete iCloud sync support for Yojimbo,
and are engaged in resolving several remaining technical issues.

Second, I regret that based on our work to date, we have determined Yojimbo
for iCloud will require OS X 10.8.2 or later (rather than OS X 10.7.4 or
later as we originally expected).

Since we recognize that this change will pose problems for some of you, we
are providing this info now in hopes it may aid your planning, and I
apologize for the added inconvenience.

Once again, I thank you all for your continued patience.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com>
P.O. Box 1048, Bedford, MA 01730-1048

[David Maude]

The news that, like Apple, Bare Bones has given up on users of "legacy" equipment – i.e. anyone who still has an Intel Core Duo machine – is very disappointing. No amount of "planning" or "patience" will go anywhere near resolving this issue. Although I'm very grateful for Patrick's support on resolving an issue with Dropbox, the only available workaround, we seem to have waited a long time for very little. That's not just an "inconvenience". 

[Diane Ross]

On 12/8/12 1:44 PM, "Patrick Woolsey" <pwoo...@barebones.com> wrote:

>Once again, I thank you all for your continued patience.

I'm perfectly fine waiting. Just so you know not everyone is in a huge
rush. :-)

Happy Holidays!

--
Diane Ross
Office Mac Help http://www.office.mvps.org/
OfficeforMacHelp http://www.officeformachelp.com/

[JustFred]

First of all thank you for your update. At the same time I must say
I'm disappointed that there is no indication about when this is going
to be resolved.
I'm not asking for a firm commitment here but more an indication of
what we can expect. I also understand further away indications are
less reliable.
When I first run into this problem it was because I got the warning
not to upgrade to iCloud too late. Since then I (or should I say we)
are waiting for more than 1 year.

Every time I think that my wait is almost over. I'm starting to loose
complete faith in Yojimbo and at the same time I really want the new
version of this application.
I have had this once before with an other application and after a long
wait the company went bankrupt. What is happening.

Given a bit background about what is happening might also restore
faith. The indication that 10.8.2 is requires seems to indicate that
Apple fixed part of their side of the issue.
I know that this has been asked before but given the timeline don't
you think you should reevaluate your strategy and provide some
background?

Please help us in staying faithful customers of your (once) great
product.

[David A.]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:44:28 -0500, Patrick Woolsey
<pwoo...@barebones.com> wrote:


>Yojimbo for iCloud will require OS X 10.8.2 or later

What about those of us who plan to never use iCloud? Will future
Yojimbo's require 10.8.2 across the board or only for iCloud
functionality?

[Bill Rowe]

On 12/8/12 at 2:09 PM, dma...@gmail.com (David Maude) wrote:

>The news that, like Apple, Bare Bones has given up on users of
>"legacy" equipment – i.e. anyone who still has an Intel Core Duo
>machine – is very disappointing.

what??? I have 10.8.2 running on Intel Core Due machine. Why
would you think this is a problem?

[Terry J Fundak]

+1

This may be all Apple.inc's "fault" in an unsecure and genuinely dangerous world ...... and I have good reason personally to think that Apple is starting down the decline to a failed Computer OS from the advanced user point of view..... 

I really am disappointed to hear this BB folks are in this state too. Beyond the missed dates, there is a failure of imagination in crafting systems for the 2012 era - that really bothers me. GoogleDocs get it. Evernotes gets it. DropBox gets it. Git gets it. Wait, "GIT" gets it..... Why not "sync" as in the version control system's natural extension of sync and let users figure out the rest...... If a document's uniqueness is HASHable then why not go for a proven "sync" solution with a "check in" override in a Yojimbo UI.....

There has to be a way to have a pretty app and not be limited by Apple's security concerns..... It appears DropBox has it mostly thus why use Yojimbo as a front end to DropBox if we are not going to get a sync out of Yojimbo.

I have a couple systems that are 10.8.2 - i.e Mt. Lion..... and I think Apple.inc. really messed up with MobileMe turn off and iCloud+Lion psuedo replacing the better SnowLeopard/MobileMe OS/System. Perhaps Mt.Lion and iCloud will get it right - it does seem better - but boy..... being tied to Apple's multiyear hiccup of Lion/iCloud is really feeling like what is tied is my balls! - and I'm really feeling it ..... S&M is stimulation but not necessarily very much fun and I certainly am not getting a lot of work done in this state.

My use of Yojimbo for new content has stopped when Apple cut MobileMe and in my castrated state, I'm feeling pretty unproductive.... after a while it is time to go "sew the oats" a different way - I still think different and remember the fun day of the past. Does BB? Does Apple?

Sadly.... I'm think we really did loose the spirit of Apple when Steve died ...

:'-(

Terry

_______________________________________

Terry J Fundak
Infrastructure Engineer
Network Design and Security Solutions for SMBs
Tech Support - Client and Server Systems

TJSoftworks
1834 Chadwick Court
Santa Rosa, CA 95401
(707) 849-1000 Cell

(415) 877-1783
e-Mail: te...@tjsoftworks.com

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[Fabian Fang]

It is a problem for some.  Even though the Yojimbo-Talk List is hardly the place for discussions of Mac OS compatibility, it should be noted that the maximum OS for Macs with Intel Core Duo processors is 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard).

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 10:05 -0700 12/09/2012, David A. wrote:

>On Sat, 8 Dec 2012 16:44:28 -0500, Patrick Woolsey wrote:
>
>>Yojimbo for iCloud will require OS X 10.8.2 or later
>
>What about those of us who plan to never use iCloud? Will future
>Yojimbo's require 10.8.2 across the board or only for iCloud
>functionality?

That's correct; the next version of Yojimbo will require OS X 10.8.2,
whether or not you use iCloud.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[ittek]

The next version of Yojimbo will require OS X 10.8.2,  whether or not you use iCloud. 

This is disappointing. Unfortunately a number of my key apps are still breaking in Mountain Lion, so I will have to wait even longer before getting my sync back.  I'm willing to do so at this point only because I have invested so much time into using Yojimbo since v1, and think it is otherwise a decent tool for the job. 

I don't really question the need for the forward push, I was merely hoping that I continue to use 10.7.

[NovaScotian]

I'm in the same boat -- I'm using Lion and will continue to do so until all the apps I use either catch up or I transition their data to some other ML compliant app.

[Terry J Fundak]

At the OS level, the move Snow Leopard to Lion was a real messy and a changed that caught me off guard in many ways and then coupled with MibileMe shutdown it was just a "forced on me transition" - that's how the full experience of it felt to me. It was so bad that the move to Mt.Lion almost felt good though I felt like a Window user living in fear or what was underneath the pretty market of the new product. Mt. Lion is better IMHO and is getting better but I would have rather stayed with SnowLeopard. 

Now, My Yojimbo ecosystem is made up of SnowLeopard and Mt. Lion it this point. When Yojimbo can sync Mt. Lion ( and iOS devices? ) Is BB really saying that Yojimbo files will have no way - even without syncing - to use my Snow Leopard machine - i.e. totally incompatible app and/or data files?

Is this the final word BB folks?

Terry

[Bill]

On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 7:42:10 AM UTC-8, Terry J Fundak wrote:

At the OS level, the move Snow Leopard to Lion was a real messy and a changed that caught me off guard in many ways and then coupled with MibileMe shutdown it was just a "forced on me transition" - that's how the full experience of it felt to me. It was so bad that the move to Mt.Lion almost felt good though I felt like a Window user living in fear or what was underneath the pretty market of the new product. Mt. Lion is better IMHO and is getting better but I would have rather stayed with SnowLeopard. 

Now, My Yojimbo ecosystem is made up of SnowLeopard and Mt. Lion it this point. When Yojimbo can sync Mt. Lion ( and iOS devices? ) Is BB really saying that Yojimbo files will have no way - even without syncing - to use my Snow Leopard machine - i.e. totally incompatible app and/or data files?

Is this the final word BB folks?

Pretty much, yes (note I'm not speaking for BareBones; I'm just a user).  But they've said they will use iCloud to sync, which requires Lion at a minimum.  Furthermore, they say they've encountered issues in Lion that mean they need to in fact build on 10.8.2 (presumably because the issues they've found can't be worked around and still exist in 10.7.5).  Even if Apple were to address the issue (or BareBones were to workaround), there's still no way to sync using iCloud from Snow Leopard.  And thus if you don't want to sync you're free to keep that Snow Leopard machine running Yojimbo 3.0.4… it will just be a data "island."

[Bill Rowe]

On 12/11/12 at 8:32 AM, acb...@gmail.com (NovaScotian) wrote:

>I'm in the same boat -- I'm using Lion and will continue to do so
>until all the apps I use either catch up or I transition their data
>to some other ML compliant app.

If you are at Lion, there isn't much reason not to go to
Mountain Lion. I am not aware of any apps that run in Lion that
won't run in Mountain Lion. The real transition that causes
issues for some is the transition from Snow Leopard to Lion
since Rosetta is not supported in Lion.

Any app you have coded for a PPC processor can't make the
transition to Lion. But there is no similar problem when going
from Lion to Mountain Lion.

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 07:42 -0800 12/11/2012, Terry J Fundak wrote:
[...]

>Now, My Yojimbo ecosystem is made up of SnowLeopard and Mt. Lion it this
>point. When Yojimbo can sync Mt. Lion ( and iOS devices? ) Is BB really
>saying that Yojimbo files will have no way - even without syncing - to use
>my Snow Leopard machine - i.e. totally incompatible app and/or data files?
>
>Is this the final word BB folks?

Since iCloud is not available for Snow Leopard, the iCloud version must
require at least OS X 10.7.4, as we said in June, and that minimum has
unfortunately now become OS X 10.8.2.

[NovaScotian]

The problems with ML arise with strict sand boxing and AppleScrips that facilitate inter app communication.

[steve....@me.com]

So my patience is now running thin.  Can you please give an indication of how close you are to getting this sorted. Do I need to wait a couple of years or fingers crossed a couple of months.

[Bill]

I don't know how this is the case.  Sandboxing only affects applications that are distributed via the Mac App Store.  (Note: BareBones noted that Yojimbo 4.0 will be distributed via the MAS only, because that's the only way to get iCloud sync).

Anything released via the MAS must be sandboxed now; this is true for applications on 10.7 and on 10.8.  So the OS version is not an issue for applications delivered via the MAS; both are sandboxed.  Similarly, for apps available outside the MAS; neither *must* be sandboxed, and thus scripts would work the same.

So I believe you're misinformed here.  It's not an OS X version thing; it's a MAS/non-MAS thing, and Yojimbo 4 will be in the former.  

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 15:26 -0800 12/19/2012, steve....@me.com wrote:
>So my patience is now running thin. Can you please give an indication of
>how close you are to getting this sorted. Do I need to wait a couple of
>years or fingers crossed a couple of months.

It certainly won't happen this year, nor take a whole year.

Right now, we're working with an estimate of Q1 2013.


Regards,

Patrick Woolsey
==
Bare Bones Software, Inc. <http://www.barebones.com/>

[Rob Jackson]

I am sorry, Patrick.  But your credibility is shot, as is BBS. You should stick with it will be ready when it is ready.  Yojimbo, in its current iteration, is dead software and no longer being supported.  And there will be a significant wait until the new version comes out.  I fell for the "it will definitely be ready before MM expires" too.  No more.  Sorry guys, but at this point, I am just angry.

- Rob 

[Archie Campbell]

Patrick,

Would it be feasible to release a tool to us to use to reconcile different Yoj. DBs on the same LAN?  That way I could sync and reconcile the two DBs I have now so that I could then go with the Dropbox (will it also work with Skydrive?) workaround until the iCloud update ships.  Or does such a tool already exist?

Thanks,

Archie

--

[Patrick Woolsey]

At 10:04 -0800 12/21/2012, Archie Campbell wrote:
>Would it be feasible to release a tool to us to use to reconcile different
>Yoj. DBs on the same LAN? That way I could sync and reconcile the two DBs
>I have now so that I could then go with the Dropbox (will it also work
>with Skydrive?) workaround until the iCloud update ships. Or does such a
>tool already exist?

I regret that isn't currently feasible. At a pinch though, you could try
the following script which Mike Conley wrote:

<http://yjscripts.pbworks.com/w/page/34623004/Merge-Transfer%20Yojimbo%20Items>

[mi...@pittelko.net]

I can't help but think that in the extended amount of time (over a year since the mobileme sunset was announced) they've been working on this that they could have developed a complete sync solution that was their own, and didn't depend on Apple....keeping them out of this little problem the next time Apple abandons something. Easy? No, but certainly possible.

I get that they don't want to release something that isn't perfect.  However, "Perfect is the enemy of good" - I suspect there are some halfway points that have come and gone without being released.  Example: I would be pretty happy with sync that worked between two machine (say, my mac and ipad) and an app that refused to run (or supplied plenty of grave warnings) if I tried to run both at the same time.  I'd at least have a working way to edit from an ipad (which would make the ipad app significantly more useful to me.) Would it be ideal? No, not really, I'd rather be able to run them both at the same time, but the reality is that the most common use case is probably "I'm moving from place to place, device to device, and not editing on two at the same time" - that's a lot different than "I need to share a database between 100 different users on 200 different machines, and edit on all of them concurrently"  Sure, it would be cool, and I can see it being useful, but it doesn't seem to be the functionality being asked for by the people I've seen.

Yojimbo has a lot of promise.  I'd really like to be able to use it as a "brain bucket" - but I can't use it like that for work and home until I can edit from more than one point (though not at the same time...there's only one of me)

They say they're working hard on solutions, which I believe, but (that word again....) I also think that there are other options besides "perfect" that would be better than where we are now.

I've tried evernote.  Don't like it.  I've tried circus ponies notebook....doesn't really do what I want. voodoopad has a lot going for it, but development was essentially stalled for so long, I moved away to Yojimbo. I still have a lot of hope for Yojimbo, I think they'll eventually get things squared away, but I can't say that I haven't looked for alternatives.

[Archie Campbell]

Thanks, Patrick, I'll check that out.

Archie

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Patrick Woolsey <pwoo...@barebones.com> wrote:

At 10:04 -0800 12/21/2012, Archie Campbell wrote:

>Would it be feasible to release a tool to us to use to reconcile different
>Yoj. DBs on the same LAN?  That way I could sync and reconcile the two DBs
>I have now so that I could then go with the Dropbox (will it also work
>with Skydrive?) workaround until the iCloud update ships.  Or does such a
>tool already exist?

I regret that isn't currently feasible. At a pinch though, you could try
the following script which Mike Conley wrote:

<http://yjscripts.pbworks.com/w/page/34623004/Merge-Transfer%20Yojimbo%20Items>

[Archie Campbell]

Folks,

In case anyone cares, I learned a couple of things while going through this process:

1) If you download the script, you may get an error once you try to run the script that it is PowerPC-only or some such.  I got around this by opening the script in AppleScript Editor and saving it.  That cleared up that problem.  The script is very slick (thanks, Mike Conley!) but I did have to run it a couple of times on my 2008-era  iMac, since an Apple Event timeout killed the script the first time.  So keep that in mind if you have an older machine.  Also, the script did not perfectly preserve some of the mod times on the Yoj items (all password items, interestingly), so a couple dozen out of ~1900 items ended up with the timestamp of when the script ran.  But the other data was preserved-very nice.

2) Skydrive also works as a destination for the DB.  In the instructions supplied by BB (http://barebones.com/support/yojimbo/tn_dropbox.html), I just substituted my Skydrive folder for the Dropbox folder in the directions, and it worked.  Beware that Skydrive doesn't work very efficiently when synchronizing two machines on the same LAN (Live Mesh also had this problem.)  I'm not sure Dropbox has the same problem.

At any rate, I'll guinea-pig this and let you know what I find.  But of course, with my luck, now that I've gone to all of this trouble, I'm sure the iCloud solution will be ready today or tomorrow.  And if that happens, you're welcome.

Archie

[Mike Conley]

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 4:57:42 PM UTC, awksedperl wrote:

1) If you download the script, you may get an error once you try to run the script that it is PowerPC-only or some such.  I got around this by opening the script in AppleScript Editor and saving it.  That cleared up that problem.  The script is very slick (thanks, Mike Conley!) but I did have to run it a couple of times on my 2008-era  iMac, since an Apple Event timeout killed the script the first time.  So keep that in mind if you have an older machine.  Also, the script did not perfectly preserve some of the mod times on the Yoj items (all password items, interestingly), so a couple dozen out of ~1900 items ended up with the timestamp of when the script ran.  But the other data was preserved-very nice.

A couple of notes:

- I've updated this script to work on 10.6+, so compatibility with newer systems should no longer be a problem (in fact, it may not run on older systems now!).

- Password and serial number items are all going to be newly-created, and thus their timestamps will be off, because there's no way to export passwords and serial numbers as objects that retain that sort of information; their data are dumped to text files and regenerated on import. Sorry about that; I find it annoying, too.

I will send a note to Rhet Turnbull, who maintains the site that the original version was posted to, and send him an updated copy. In the meantime, I've zipped the executable up and attached it here. As before, it's appreciationware, so if you like, you can toss me a couple of quid at myukpaypal at-sign mac full-stop com (thanks for that, by the way, Archie!).

[Rhet Turnbull]

Thanks Mike! I added your new script to the yjscripts wiki at http://yjscripts.pbworks.com

Cheers,

Rhet

--

[ittek]

Ok, so I am not concerned about moving to 10.8. Upgraded without much hassle on one machine.

Looking forward to being able to use yojimbo on multiple machines still. I've recent rekindled my interest in supporting independent developers (i.e. use yojimbo and pay for it vs. using Evernote) and I realize this means as developers you're dealing with a significantly fewer resources.

I won't lie I will start to be more frustrated if this is drawn out for a year or more past the sunset date, but I stop and realize that you are working as diligently as you can in the face of this technological shift, not just sitting idly while your user grumble.

Further, I'd much rather wait and have yojimbo work without a hitch than for you to be pressured to release it prematurely and have it rife with bugs.

[Bryan Bagwell]

Cheer up,

We can't be that far off from Apple replacing iCloud with a newer technology.  I hope they remember to check with BareBones to see if it is compatible with Yojimbo.

Bare Bones is a really appropriate name about now, because that is all that is left of a program that I used to trumpet to the world.  It must hurt when a revenue stream dries up.  I literally forgot about it and just saw it in my apps folder.  Can you rename the program Time Capsule?