price increases?

[Paul Griswold]

Can anyone from AD discuss the price increases that have been announced?  Will it affect Softimage or is it just CAD products?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&siteID=123112

-Paul

[Paul Griswold]

Nevermind - I found it here:   http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=19221863 

So it looks like we're all going to see a price increase in August.

[Thomas Helzle]

yeah, got some funny emails as well.

It seems that in the future you can update up to 6 or 7 versions back, but have to pay 70% of the full original price (which funny enough was increased quite considerably for XSI not that long ago).

I'm sure an Autodesk representative would be able to explain why this is a fantastic thing to happen.

I'd call it your basic miss-use of a monopoly.

Cheers,

Tom

http://www.screendream.de

[Eric Gunther]

You know,

I was just subscribed to this list to pick up the odd bit about 3d and
softimage...but I feel the need to comment.

I initially got softimage (decided to use it) because it was selling for
400 bucks or something. Seemed like a good way to get into the
industry, small.

what is happening and has been happening with this is just
$%#@ed up.

-eric

[David Gallagher]

What are the new subscription prices?

[Stephen Blair]

Subscription prices do not change.
Price changes apply to new licenses.

[Matt Lind]

What are the new prices for new licenses?

[Stephen Blair]

The price increase for commercial US and Canada licenses will be something on the order of 5%, I believe.
I don't have the actual prices atm.

[pet...@skynet.be]

but with north america vs europe vs japan equivalency, we'll see 10 % in
europe and 20% in japan.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

[Rob Wuijster]

In this financial climate, it's always nice to hear prices go UP....... :-\

Rob

\/-------------\/----------------\/

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12

[Stephen Blair]

It's a North American price change.
I haven't seen anything about price changes in the rest of the world.

[pet...@skynet.be]

a little fairy told me today...
in about two weeks we (Europe) would see 25% increase on
licenses/maintenance for autodesk 3D software, and upgrades at about 75% of
the cost of new licenses.

all bets are on.

[Williams, Wayne]

Autodesk hedging their Euro positions haha!

[Thomas Helzle]

"bets"? 

They are called "Screws" as far as I know ;-)

Applied to the thumbs or other sensitive body extensions they can be very effective.

Especially in an endless spiraling economic crisis they are needed to extract shareholder value from customers who might have become a bit reluctant to let go of possessions, even if it's for the greater good.

It's easily fixed with the:

S.C.R.E.W.E.D. 2013 Subscription Benefit Pack Extender Set.

Once applied, the needed flow of fresh blood, ahem, cash, is guaranteed.

Enjoy your stay ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

<pgriswold@fusiondigitalproductions.com>  wrote:

        Nevermind - I found it here:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=192218
63


        So it looks like we're all going to see a price increase in
        August.


        On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Paul Griswold

        <pgriswold@fusiondigitalproductions.com>  wrote:

[pet...@skynet.be]

nope – a bet it is, as for now it is just a rumour.

[Thomas Helzle]

The 70% of the full price for an update is not a rumor, I got that in an official mail from my reseller a month ago.

They say this will be effective from February 2013.

I haven't heard of the general price increase but wouldn't be surprised - I guess it's more the question of "when" than "if". And Softimage XSI is really worth every penny, it used to cost 70,000 or something ;-)

Hey, just kidding anyway. I'm out of the loop already.

Cheers,

Tom

[Byron Nash]

Is this an effort to get everyone on subscription? I haven't heard any word about that going up. (crossing fingers!) I personally like subscription.

[Tim Leydecker]

On 15.06.2012 18:21, Byron Nash wrote:
> Is this an effort to get everyone on subscription? I haven't heard any word about that going up. (crossing fingers!) I personally like subscription.

+1


I just recently tried to consolidate my licenses into
one single subscription covered Ultimate package.

It would have been very favorable for me but unfortunately,
my reseller would only offer a stiff +/- 5000 EUR option,
dropping Maya and upgrading Premium into a single Ultimate bundle.

If I would just go and get my subscription for my Premium bundle
and the Maya license instead, even including pesky late subscription fees,
which are imho sending a wrong message in terms of marketing anyway,
I would end up at "just" roughly 2200 EUR.

This doesn�t make sense at all and really, really sends the wrong message.

I would have thought AD would be happy to simplify things and even sell the full pack?

Cheers,


tim

On 15.06.2012 18:21, Byron Nash wrote:
> Is this an effort to get everyone on subscription? I haven't heard any word about that going up. (crossing fingers!) I personally like subscription.
>

> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Thomas Helzle <thomas...@gmail.com <mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The 70% of the full price for an update is not a rumor, I got that in an official mail from my reseller a month ago.
> They say this will be effective from February 2013.
>
> I haven't heard of the general price increase but wouldn't be surprised - I guess it's more the question of "when" than "if". And Softimage XSI is really worth every penny, it
> used to cost 70,000 or something ;-)
>
> Hey, just kidding anyway. I'm out of the loop already.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tom
>
>

> On 14 June 2012 20:57, <pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:
>
> nope � a bet it is, as for now it is just a rumour.
> *From:* Thomas Helzle <mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:37 PM
> *To:* soft...@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
> *Subject:* Re: price increases?

> "bets"?
> They are called "Screws" as far as I know ;-)
> Applied to the thumbs or other sensitive body extensions they can be very effective.
> Especially in an endless spiraling economic crisis they are needed to extract shareholder value from customers who might have become a bit reluctant to let go of
> possessions, even if it's for the greater good.
> It's easily fixed with the:
> S.C.R.E.W.E.D. 2013 Subscription Benefit Pack Extender Set.
> Once applied, the needed flow of fresh blood, ahem, cash, is guaranteed.
> Enjoy your stay ;-)
> Cheers,
> Tom
>

> On 14 June 2012 19:59, <pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:
>
> a little fairy told me today...
> in about two weeks we (Europe) would see 25% increase on licenses/maintenance for autodesk 3D software, and upgrades at about 75% of the cost of new licenses.
>
> all bets are on.
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:17 AM
>

> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

> Subject: RE: price increases?
>
> It's a North American price change.
> I haven't seen anything about price changes in the rest of the world.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com
> <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>
> Sent: June-12-12 3:15 AM
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
> Subject: Re: price increases?
>
> but with north america vs europe vs japan equivalency, we'll see 10 % in
> europe and 20% in japan.
> (sorry, couldn't resist)
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:20 AM

> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

> <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgri...@fusiondigitalproductions.com>> wrote:
> Nevermind - I found it here:
>

> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?siteID=__123112&id=192218 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=192218>

> 63
>
>
> So it looks like we're all going to see a price increase in
> August.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Paul Griswold
> <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgri...@fusiondigitalproductions.com>> wrote:
> Can anyone from AD discuss the price increases that
> have been announced? Will it affect Softimage or is
> it just CAD products?
>
>
>

> http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&__siteID=1231 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&siteID=1231>
> 12
>
>
> -Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Matt Morris]

I can't believe AD's policy concerning pricing. I've dropped both my subs due to the 70% price increase for uk subscribers - so are the prices going up even more?!

I'll think about upgrading again when they sort out their INSANE price policies. 2013 should do me for a while yet. Given that we're in a worldwide recession and the 3d market in particular seems to be being squeezed, I have no idea how they are validating these decisions.

On 16 June 2012 11:43, Tim Leydecker <baue...@gmx.de> wrote:

On 15.06.2012 18:21, Byron Nash wrote:
> Is this an effort to get everyone on subscription? I haven't heard any word about that going up. (crossing fingers!) I personally like subscription.

+1


I just recently tried to consolidate my licenses into
one single subscription covered Ultimate package.

It would have been very favorable for me but unfortunately,
my reseller would only offer a stiff +/- 5000 EUR option,
dropping Maya and upgrading Premium into a single Ultimate bundle.

If I would just go and get my subscription for my Premium bundle
and the Maya license instead, even including pesky late subscription fees,
which are imho sending a wrong message in terms of marketing anyway,
I would end up at "just" roughly 2200 EUR.

This doesn´t make sense at all and really, really sends the wrong message.

I would have thought AD would be happy to simplify things and even sell the full pack?

Cheers,


tim

On 15.06.2012 18:21, Byron Nash wrote:

Is this an effort to get everyone on subscription? I haven't heard any word about that going up. (crossing fingers!) I personally like subscription.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:22 PM, Thomas Helzle <thomas...@gmail.com <mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>> wrote:

   The 70% of the full price for an update is not a rumor, I got that in an official mail from my reseller a month ago.
   They say this will be effective from February 2013.

   I haven't heard of the general price increase but wouldn't be surprised - I guess it's more the question of "when" than "if". And Softimage XSI is really worth every penny, it
   used to cost 70,000 or something ;-)

   Hey, just kidding anyway. I'm out of the loop already.

   Cheers,

   Tom

   On 14 June 2012 20:57, <pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:

       nope – a bet it is, as for now it is just a rumour.

       *From:* Thomas Helzle <mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>
       *Sent:* Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:37 PM

       *To:* soft...@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

       *Subject:* Re: price increases?

       "bets"?
       They are called "Screws" as far as I know ;-)
       Applied to the thumbs or other sensitive body extensions they can be very effective.
       Especially in an endless spiraling economic crisis they are needed to extract shareholder value from customers who might have become a bit reluctant to let go of
       possessions, even if it's for the greater good.
       It's easily fixed with the:
       S.C.R.E.W.E.D. 2013 Subscription Benefit Pack Extender Set.
       Once applied, the needed flow of fresh blood, ahem, cash, is guaranteed.
       Enjoy your stay ;-)
       Cheers,
       Tom

       On 14 June 2012 19:59, <pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:

           a little fairy told me today...
           in about two weeks we (Europe) would see 25% increase on licenses/maintenance for autodesk 3D software, and upgrades at about 75% of the cost of new licenses.

           all bets are on.


           -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
           Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:17 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: RE: price increases?

           It's a North American price change.
           I haven't seen anything about price changes in the rest of the world.

           -----Original Message-----

           From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com
           <mailto:softimage-bounces@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>
           Sent: June-12-12 3:15 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>
           Subject: Re: price increases?

           but with north america vs europe vs japan equivalency, we'll see 10 % in
           europe and 20% in japan.
           (sorry, couldn't resist)


           -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
           Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:20 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>

                   <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgriswold@fusiondigitalproductions.com>>  wrote:

                            Nevermind - I found it here:

                   http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?siteID=__123112&id=192218 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=192218>

                   63


                            So it looks like we're all going to see a price increase in
                            August.


                            On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Paul Griswold

                   <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgriswold@fusiondigitalproductions.com>>  wrote:

                                    Can anyone from AD discuss the price increases that
                                    have been announced?  Will it affect Softimage or is
                                    it just CAD products?

                   http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&__siteID=1231 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&siteID=1231>
                   12


                                    -Paul

--
www.matinai.com

[Williams, Wayne]

“I can't believe AD's policy concerning pricing. I've dropped both my subs due to the 70% price increase for uk subscribers - so are the prices going up even more?!”

 

You are doing the right thing. Money talks, and when enough of it does, it roars. Just stop upgrading, stop subscription. When enough people do so Autodesk will be forced to re-evaluate their policies or hemorrhage money. Will probably get flamed to the depths of Hades for the contrarian opinion but monopolistic price gouging isn’t a sustainable business model due to various factors, most notably the demand curve. Only so many people can afford the new, higher premiums so they wind up losing customers there. They also  extremely piss off much of the rest of their customer base with the higher prices  which makes that base more prone to look elsewhere for solutions. This is when competitors step in and offer more value to lure that customer base away. It may be that the competition has the same sort of product for a cheaper price, or it may be they offer something that does more than what Autodesk software can do but at the same price.  Eventually, this results in an equilibrium of prices for goods and services being made possible. Know it sounds a bit odd, but this price exploration is something that is desirable in the long term. It’s one of the things which drives innovation, competition and helps producers to determine what is the right price for their product. Non-market based external factors aside (government’s injecting themselves into the economy (typically due to lobbying from a weaker competitor) via subsidies, tax breaks, no bid contracts, etc.) this process is the most efficient one our species has observed to date for the allocation of resources.

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Morris
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 7:26 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: price increases?

 

I can't believe AD's policy concerning pricing. I've dropped both my subs due to the 70% price increase for uk subscribers - so are the prices going up even more?!

       *To:* soft...@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

       *Subject:* Re: price increases?

       "bets"?
       They are called "Screws" as far as I know ;-)
       Applied to the thumbs or other sensitive body extensions they can be very effective.
       Especially in an endless spiraling economic crisis they are needed to extract shareholder value from customers who might have become a bit reluctant to let go of
       possessions, even if it's for the greater good.
       It's easily fixed with the:
       S.C.R.E.W.E.D. 2013 Subscription Benefit Pack Extender Set.
       Once applied, the needed flow of fresh blood, ahem, cash, is guaranteed.
       Enjoy your stay ;-)
       Cheers,
       Tom

       On 14 June 2012 19:59, <pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:

           a little fairy told me today...
           in about two weeks we (Europe) would see 25% increase on licenses/maintenance for autodesk 3D software, and upgrades at about 75% of the cost of new licenses.

           all bets are on.


           -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
           Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:17 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: RE: price increases?

           It's a North American price change.
           I haven't seen anything about price changes in the rest of the world.

           -----Original Message-----

           From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com
           <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of pet...@skynet.be <mailto:pet...@skynet.be>
           Sent: June-12-12 3:15 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: Re: price increases?

           but with north america vs europe vs japan equivalency, we'll see 10 % in
           europe and 20% in japan.
           (sorry, couldn't resist)


           -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
           Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:20 AM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: RE: price increases?

           The price increase for commercial US and Canada licenses will be something
           on the order of 5%, I believe.
           I don't have the actual prices atm.

           -----Original Message-----

           From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>
           [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Matt Lind
           Sent: June-11-12 7:43 PM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: RE: price increases?

           What are the new prices for new licenses?




           -----Original Message-----

           From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>
           [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Stephen Blair
           Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:38 PM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: RE: price increases?

           Subscription prices do not change.
           Price changes apply to new licenses.


           -----Original Message-----

           From: softimage-bounces@listproc.__autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>
           [mailto:softimage-bounces@__listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of David
           Gallagher
           Sent: June-11-12 7:04 PM

           To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.__com <mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

           Subject: Re: price increases?


           What are the new subscription prices?


           On 6/11/2012 6:36 PM, Eric Gunther wrote:

               You know,

               I was just subscribed to this list to pick up the odd bit about 3d and
               softimage...but I feel the need to comment.

               I initially got softimage (decided to use it) because it was selling
               for
               400 bucks or something.  Seemed like a good way to get into the
               industry, small.

               what is happening and has been happening with this is just $%#@ed up.

               -eric



               On Tue, 2012-06-12 at 00:00 +0200, Thomas Helzle wrote:

                   yeah, got some funny emails as well.
                   It seems that in the future you can update up to 6 or 7 versions
                   back, but have to pay 70% of the full original price (which funny
                   enough was increased quite considerably for XSI not that long ago).
                   I'm sure an Autodesk representative would be able to explain why this
                   is a fantastic thing to happen.


                   I'd call it your basic miss-use of a monopoly.


                   Cheers,


                   Tom


                   http://www.screendream.de

                   On 11 June 2012 21:15, Paul Griswold

                   <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgri...@fusiondigitalproductions.com>>  wrote:

                            Nevermind - I found it here:

                   http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?siteID=__123112&id=192218 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=192218>

                   63


                            So it looks like we're all going to see a price increase in
                            August.


                            On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Paul Griswold

                   <pgriswold@__fusiondigitalproductions.com <mailto:pgri...@fusiondigitalproductions.com>>  wrote:

                                    Can anyone from AD discuss the price increases that
                                    have been announced?  Will it affect Softimage or is
                                    it just CAD products?

                   http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/__servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&__siteID=1231 <http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&siteID=1231>
                   12


                                    -Paul

 

--
www.matinai.com

[Szabolcs Matefy]

To be honest, due to the increased unreliability of Autodesk products, and the increasing price, we are considering to migrate to cheaper, more reliable product out of the Autodesk household. Why I should pay for bugfixes? Why should I pay money for delivering useless, untested stuff? It’s not against the excellent guys at support (hats off for you guys, you really rock), but Autodesk policy. Shame on them. And that’ll lead to increased software piracy, it’s sure.

[olivier jeannel]

"...we are considering to migrate to cheaper, more reliable product..."
Which one ? ...just curious.

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Modo is one of the possible candidates. I was working with LW for four years, and I was working with modo for a while. It’s quite different, but it might be a good direction. Of course it’s just my opinion, my bosses will make the decision, but looking at the facts, if the price increase is that large, we probably wouldn’t renew our subscription. It’s not a fair way to pay for bugfixes. It’s like you buy a car, but wheel is working in the opposite direction.. You have to pay an additional fee for fixing the wheel? C’mon. Luxology seems to be delivering service packs addressing the issues

[olivier jeannel]

I'm an ex LW user as well :) Honestly I can't see myself going back, although I admit I have no idea what LW is offering nowadays...
Is there something close to Ice in Modo ?

[Rob Wuijster]

Modo's has replicators, LW would be combo of instancing, flocking and FiberFX I guess..
But it's not as powerful as ICE.

But looking at the latest LW and Modo, there's some nice stuff in there.

Rob

\/-------------\/----------------\/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 2012.0.2180 / Virus Database: 2433/5077 - Release Date: 06/18/12

[Toonafish]

If you're considering another app because of stability and pricing issues in Softimage, Modo might not be the place to go. I personally have much more issues with Modo crashing and even crippling saved work then I ever had in Softimage. Modo is nice, and it has a great renderer, but it's not quite there yet I think.

-Ronald

[Simon Van de Lagemaat]

I love Modo but it is in NO way ready for even moderate production loads.  I know because I've tried to implement it here for commercial production and there are quite a few roadblocks that hold it back.  That's not to say it isn't capable on smaller jobs, it most certainly is.

 

As it stands now the core of the program is not able to deal with the heavy lifting that comes up in film and some commercials, both in capability and stability.  I also don't believe that the Lux guys want Modo to become a heavy lifting package that could replace Soft or Maya.  Right now Arnold and Soft are light years ahead of Modo in terms of stability and capabilty with a moderate to heavy production load.

 

That said I feel your pain, we've let our subscription lapse because we don't feel that 2013 warrants a paid upgrade.  I really feel like AD is holding us hostage with subscription fees, they force you into paying for upgrades that you don't feel are worth the cost simply because not paying for them is more expensive in the short term... of course all that does is make us not upgrade for a longer period of time to offset the penalty. 

 

I wish AD would shit or get off the pot and either move to standalone paid upgrades or go to a full rental model like Adobe has which is closer to a pay for play model.  At least that way we could properly budget licensing costs per project.

[Thomas Helzle]

Good to hear that more people let their subscription lapse.

This business model makes it way too easy to feed crap to the customer.

While I basically understand that it is great for the developer to have a fixed income, I can't see how it would keep people on their toes if I can't vote with my updating.

I'm wary of Adobes new policies too, but they at least offer an alternative, although I am VERY cautious about the current cheap prices for their rental - as soon as most people no longer have normal licenses, they are free to increase the rental price. And they just killed most of the large second hand software market in one bold strike too. 

Thankfully, I need less and less of Adobes tools, so this isn't as big of a problem.

Initially I planned to do my new fullscreen-website in Flash, but in the end decided on HTML5, which I did mostly in a text editor and  with open source tools - turned out just fine: http://www.screendream.de ;-)

I'm really curious how the software market will develop in the near future - on one hand you have the cheap apple model, a professional app for 35 to 250 euro so almost everybody can afford it, on the other hand you have heavy handed Autodeskish companies who try to get us back to the silicon graphics days. I'm wary of both, but thankfully there is still a "normal" software market left.

modo 601 may not be the tool for full on feature film production, but in my experience, it works much better than I would have expected (especially their render tree) and I like it that I just downloaded SP2 which again fixes a lot of bugs after SP1 did the same just some weeks ago.

For Freelancers and small companies, it definitely is worth a try.

At least it works for me :-)

SItoM anybody?

Cheers,

Tom

[Steffen Dünner]

2012/6/19 Thomas Helzle <thomas...@gmail.com>

especially their render tree

They have a render tree? Node based?

Last time I checked, all I found was some sort of layer-based stack that felt somehow "ancient". Can you point me to a tutorial or feature description that shows this render tree? I would be very interested in it.

Cheers

Steffen
--
PGP-ID(RSA): 0xCCE2E989 / 0xE045734C CCE2E989
Fingerprint: 394B 3DA9 9A9A 96C6  3A5A 0595 EF92 EE1F

[Toonafish]

Neh, unfortunately the Render Tree in Modo is not node based. I works more like Photoshop layers, just like in Lightwave, but a bit more advanced. There are some advantages over the Render Tree in Softimage, but even in a medium complex scene it becomes extemely flaky and very confusing.

-Ronald

[Steffen Dünner]

Thanks for confirming my first impressions :)

That's what I meant by "ancient". I hoped that such a brand new architecture would offer me a more modern concept of material editing.

The RayGL mode is awesome though!

2012/6/19 Toonafish <ron...@toonafish.nl>

[Szabolcs Matefy]

I think modo’s rendering is a quite different approach, it’s really layerbased, where materials, objects are mostly layer masks. However rendering is quite fast, and progressive. I think it’s a good alternate (and cheap(er))

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Steffen Dünner
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 2:24 PM
To: ron...@toonafish.nl; soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: price increases?

 

Thanks for confirming my first impressions :)

[Graham Bell]

I’ve been following the thread. I don’t have any information on impending changes to pricing and policy, other than what Autodesk have announced here:
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=19221634&siteID=123112

But I will try and find out.

G

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of pet...@skynet.be
Sent: 14 June 2012 19:57
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: price increases?

nope – a bet it is, as for now it is just a rumour.

From: Thomas Helzle<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 8:37 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: price increases?

"bets"?
They are called "Screws" as far as I know ;-)
Applied to the thumbs or other sensitive body extensions they can be very effective.
Especially in an endless spiraling economic crisis they are needed to extract shareholder value from customers who might have become a bit reluctant to let go of possessions, even if it's for the greater good.

It's easily fixed with the:
S.C.R.E.W.E.D. 2013 Subscription Benefit Pack Extender Set.

Once applied, the needed flow of fresh blood, ahem, cash, is guaranteed.

Enjoy your stay ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

On 14 June 2012 19:59, <pet...@skynet.be<mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:
a little fairy told me today...
in about two weeks we (Europe) would see 25% increase on licenses/maintenance for autodesk 3D software, and upgrades at about 75% of the cost of new licenses.

all bets are on.


-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 11:17 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

Subject: RE: price increases?

It's a North American price change.
I haven't seen anything about price changes in the rest of the world.

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of pet...@skynet.be<mailto:pet...@skynet.be>
Sent: June-12-12 3:15 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: price increases?

but with north america vs europe vs japan equivalency, we'll see 10 % in
europe and 20% in japan.
(sorry, couldn't resist)


-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Blair
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 3:20 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

[David Gallagher]

For those of us who've been doing this for 20 years, I'm not inclined to get worked up about the price. Considering it used to be tens of thousands per seat.

Don't get me wrong -- the monopolistic aspects of this is disturbing to me. But they have to pay the developers from some stream of cash, after all. I'm happy if they make money from Softimage development because I'm hoping they'll do more of it.

Dave

[Eric Lampi]

Prices rise from time to time, there has to be some profit in it. Since the port to Windows NT back around '95/'96, SoftImage's price per seat has continued to fall.

Maybe it's fallen too far to cover development costs?

Eric

--
Freelance 3D and VFX animator

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

they're not raising the price of Softimage specifically, it applies to
most Autodesk products

[Thomas Helzle]

Steffen, sorry for the confusion - they call it Rendertree as well ;-)

While it's not node based (and I really am a node addict myself) this is much less of a problem than I thought, in some areas it's even better. Now that I used it for a while, my old impression (not so different from yours, Steffen) has changed a lot.

BTW. Lightwave isn't "layerbased" and never really was, Ronald? Current versions of Lightwave (for many years now actually) have full blown node shading which is in some areas better than XSI (no conversion nodes, yay ;-) ) and less good in others (some factory shaders are a bit simple). But I think the Lightwave Renderer is still top notch and GI is very fast.

Again, I don't think modo is for everybody, but IMO it's more artist friendly and -centered approach goes a long way towards getting stuff done fast where the big packages can be a bit long in the tooth.

Regarding the price: 20 years ago even a rotating cube was considered awesome and you needed a lot of special knowledge, gear and patience for even the most simple stuff. Been there, done that.

But the times are changing and today 3D is no longer something special.

I see an inflation happening: falling rates, cheaper, better and faster gear, more people wanting "in" etc.

The big tools are up against Blender - with Cycles, Camera Tracking, Volumetrics, Fluids, Compositing etc. today.

Very very different times IMO.

I can't see how Autodesk prices are cost-of-development driven in any reasonable way.

The packages they have already exist. They are noodling around with them a bit, but the last time I saw something really impressive in a major 3D package was ICE in XSI 7.

But anyway, I don't want to convince anybody of anything here, it's just that I get the impression of a serious "Stockholm Syndrome" from some of the discussions on this list ;-)

Each to his own - YMMV

Best regards,

Tom

[Thomas Cannell]

Modo does in fact have the ability to edit and build materials with nodes.  Just add them into the Schematic view and connect away.  You will still have to use it in conjunction with the tree for certain effects as it won't support everything you can do with tree.

--
------------
puppetstring.com

[Graham Bell]

Ok, so after following this thread, I met with some of my colleagues and we sat down to go through the recent pricing announcements and perhaps try and make it clearer, the best that we can. So here goes, however this is just from a Europe/EMEA view. Also to the best of my knowledge this applies to the majority of Autodesk software, not just M&E, though there are some exceptions, I don't know them all.

Changes to the upgrade model for Autodesk software:
Basically for those who don't know, Autodesk has pricing models for when someone wants to upgrade an old version of software to the current version, if they haven't been on Subscription (for whatever reason). From February 1st 2013, these models are changing

On February 1st 2013, the upgrade pricing model will change so that upgrades from 1 - 3 versions back will increase from 50% of the new licence SRP to 70% of the new licence SRP.

Upgrades from 4 - 6 versions back will remain at 70% of the new licence SRP.

Upgrades from versions older than 6 releases back will not be upgradeable.

Many customers are actually on subscription already, and this continues to be the most cost effective way to keep your software current.


Subscription price changes:

Autodesk has recently increased the cost of new subscriptions across many product lines - these changes apply to subscription renewals from February 1st 2013.

However, there is an exception for Softimage which wasn't mentioned because at this time it is not confirmed. As previously discussed on this list and other forums the Softimage subscription price has changed within the last year, and is only available as a gold subscription (not wanting to open this debate here). The subscription price for Softimage is not expected to increase further and in many cases might reduce back to a previous price. I do not know exact details, but information on local prices is expected soon. And again, I must state that I'm talking from a Europe/EMEA view. I don't have any information outside of that.

Multi-year subscription discounts to be phased out:

On August 1st 2012, the discounts for multi-year subscription will reduce from 10% to 5% for 3 year contracts and from 5% to 0% for 2 year contracts

On February 1st 2013, the discount for a 3 year renewal will reduce from 5% to 0%


So that's basically the pricing announcements that Autodesk recently made which were only focused around the upgrade models and Subscriptions.


As for anything else, and to the best of my knowledge, there are no further price changes planned at this time in EMEA. Unfortunately I cannot absolutely state that this won't change in the future or that there will not be some exceptions.

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Cannell
Sent: 19 June 2012 21:50
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: price increases?

Modo does in fact have the ability to edit and build materials with nodes. Just add them into the Schematic view and connect away. You will still have to use it in conjunction with the tree for certain effects as it won't support everything you can do with tree.

On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 1:32 PM, Thomas Helzle <thomas...@gmail.com<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Steffen, sorry for the confusion - they call it Rendertree as well ;-)
While it's not node based (and I really am a node addict myself) this is much less of a problem than I thought, in some areas it's even better. Now that I used it for a while, my old impression (not so different from yours, Steffen) has changed a lot.

BTW. Lightwave isn't "layerbased" and never really was, Ronald? Current versions of Lightwave (for many years now actually) have full blown node shading which is in some areas better than XSI (no conversion nodes, yay ;-) ) and less good in others (some factory shaders are a bit simple). But I think the Lightwave Renderer is still top notch and GI is very fast.

Again, I don't think modo is for everybody, but IMO it's more artist friendly and -centered approach goes a long way towards getting stuff done fast where the big packages can be a bit long in the tooth.

Regarding the price: 20 years ago even a rotating cube was considered awesome and you needed a lot of special knowledge, gear and patience for even the most simple stuff. Been there, done that.
But the times are changing and today 3D is no longer something special.
I see an inflation happening: falling rates, cheaper, better and faster gear, more people wanting "in" etc.
The big tools are up against Blender - with Cycles, Camera Tracking, Volumetrics, Fluids, Compositing etc. today.
Very very different times IMO.

I can't see how Autodesk prices are cost-of-development driven in any reasonable way.
The packages they have already exist. They are noodling around with them a bit, but the last time I saw something really impressive in a major 3D package was ICE in XSI 7.

But anyway, I don't want to convince anybody of anything here, it's just that I get the impression of a serious "Stockholm Syndrome" from some of the discussions on this list ;-)

Each to his own - YMMV

Best regards,

Tom

On 19 June 2012 12:55, Steffen Dünner <steffen...@googlemail.com<mailto:steffen...@googlemail.com>> wrote:
2012/6/19 Thomas Helzle <thomas...@gmail.com<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>>

especially their render tree

They have a render tree? Node based?
Last time I checked, all I found was some sort of layer-based stack that felt somehow "ancient". Can you point me to a tutorial or feature description that shows this render tree? I would be very interested in it.

Cheers
Steffen
--
PGP-ID(RSA): 0xCCE2E989 / 0xE045734C CCE2E989
Fingerprint: 394B 3DA9 9A9A 96C6 3A5A 0595 EF92 EE1F




--
------------

puppetstring.com<http://puppetstring.com>

[pet...@skynet.be]

thanks Graham for the clear information.
it beats rumours, and this doesn’t sound like 'evil coorporation' schemes to
me,
more like standardization of policies.

can you find out which the oldest upgradeable version is?

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Bell
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 9:53 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: price increases?

[Graham Bell]

Apologies for the late reply, but I believe (though TBC) that the oldest upgradeable version for Softimage is 2010.

[pet...@skynet.be]

thanks for getting back graham,

hm 2010, that’s only 3 releases back then - not 6. Oh well.

[Graham Bell]

I think for Soft its different, as 6 versions back takes it into Avid territory and am not sure how that stands, etc. Though Soft 7.5 was post acquisition so not sure about that particular version?
It appears they have followed the standard support policy which is the current verion and 3 versions back - 2012, 2011 and 2010.

[pet...@skynet.be]

yes, '6 versions' made me wonder if a pre-autodesk version could become
upgradeable again - which didn’t sound like autodesk.
then again, if it’s a way to get people back to being a paying customer, it
would be beneficial...

[John Richard Sanchez]

Hmmm Well I was paying $795 a year for subscription for XSI last year, I upgraded to the suite and now my Subscription price is 1,300per year for full suport or $900 for just upgrades and no phone support. Thats a pretty steep increase thought It was my choice to upgrade. Still trying to decide if the 1,300 is worth the money.

<steffen.duenner@googlemail.com<mailto:steffen.duenner@googlemail.com>>

wrote:
2012/6/19 Thomas Helzle
<thomas...@gmail.com<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>>
especially their render tree

They have a render tree? Node based?
Last time I checked, all I found was some sort of layer-based stack that
felt somehow "ancient". Can you point me to a tutorial or feature
description that shows this render tree? I would be very interested in it.

Cheers
Steffen
--
PGP-ID(RSA): 0xCCE2E989 / 0xE045734C CCE2E989
Fingerprint: 394B 3DA9 9A9A 96C6  3A5A 0595 EF92 EE1F




--
------------
puppetstring.com<http://puppetstring.com>

--

www.johnrichardsanchez.com

[Matt Morris]

I've just been informed that as of 1st august prices for subscription in the UK will be dropped down to £545. (Still gold subscription)

That's a much more reasonable 20% increase on my last subscription, rather than 70%, and I will probably now upgrade. I wonder how many subscriptions Autodesk has lost through this period though. There must have been a fair few like me who decided it was a pretty unreasonable hike!

--
www.matinai.com

[Thomas Helzle]

Interesting!

Now add a silver subscription  for ~300 - 400 Euro and even I may think about it again.

Add another silver subscription option without Mental Ray for ~200 Euro and I'm sold ;-)

Cheers,

Tom

http://www.screendream.de

[Graham Bell]

There was a good case for this Subs pricing for Soft, but I think you’re gonna have to let the Silver Subs thing go, for now anyway.

G

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Helzle
Sent: 12 July 2012 15:26
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: price increases?

Interesting!

Now add a silver subscription for ~300 - 400 Euro and even I may think about it again.

Add another silver subscription option without Mental Ray for ~200 Euro and I'm sold ;-)

Cheers,

Tom
http://www.screendream.de

On 12 July 2012 13:56, Matt Morris <mat...@gmail.com<mailto:mat...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I've just been informed that as of 1st august prices for subscription in the UK will be dropped down to £545. (Still gold subscription)

That's a much more reasonable 20% increase on my last subscription, rather than 70%, and I will probably now upgrade. I wonder how many subscriptions Autodesk has lost through this period though. There must have been a fair few like me who decided it was a pretty unreasonable hike!

On 9 July 2012 17:48, John Richard Sanchez <youngup...@gmail.com<mailto:youngup...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hmmm Well I was paying $795 a year for subscription for XSI last year, I upgraded to the suite and now my Subscription price is 1,300per year for full suport or $900 for just upgrades and no phone support. Thats a pretty steep increase thought It was my choice to upgrade. Still trying to decide if the 1,300 is worth the money.

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 3:26 AM, <pet...@skynet.be<mailto:pet...@skynet.be>> wrote:
yes, '6 versions' made me wonder if a pre-autodesk version could become upgradeable again - which didn’t sound like autodesk.
then again, if it’s a way to get people back to being a paying customer, it would be beneficial...


-----Original Message----- From: Graham Bell
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 12:25 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

<steffen...@googlemail.com<mailto:steffen...@googlemail.com><mailto:steffen...@googlemail.com<mailto:steffen...@googlemail.com>>>
wrote:
2012/6/19 Thomas Helzle
<thomas...@gmail.com<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com><mailto:thomas...@gmail.com<mailto:thomas...@gmail.com>>>

especially their render tree

They have a render tree? Node based?
Last time I checked, all I found was some sort of layer-based stack that
felt somehow "ancient". Can you point me to a tutorial or feature
description that shows this render tree? I would be very interested in it.

Cheers
Steffen
--
PGP-ID(RSA): 0xCCE2E989 / 0xE045734C CCE2E989
Fingerprint: 394B 3DA9 9A9A 96C6 3A5A 0595 EF92 EE1F




--
------------

puppetstring.com<http://puppetstring.com><http://puppetstring.com>



--
www.johnrichardsanchez.com<http://www.johnrichardsanchez.com>




--
www.matinai.com<http://www.matinai.com>

[Thomas Helzle]

I let subscription go completely already, no problem there Graham.