which version of Windows 7

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Kris Rivel

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Oct 27, 2009, 10:10:50 AM10/27/09
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So what flavor of Win7 is needed/recommended for us?  Home Premium, Professional or Ultimate?

Kris

Alexei

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Oct 27, 2009, 10:28:32 AM10/27/09
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Ultimate

2009/10/27 Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com>

kim aldis

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Oct 27, 2009, 10:33:40 AM10/27/09
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Fedora?

Rob Wuijster

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Oct 27, 2009, 10:34:03 AM10/27/09
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Hi Kris,

Like all previous versions of Windows, I assume W7 'Professional'.

Grab 'Ultimate' if you need the extra features like bitlocker,
applocker, boot from vhd etc.

The 'Home Premium' version can't login onto a domain, so that one is
mostly useless in a company environment. There's also a high volume
'Enterprise Edition' btw, but most of us will never see/use that one I
guess....

But so far W7 isn't officially certified for running Softimage, although
a lot of people already ran Soft on the W7RC's.
I'm still running W7RC on my laptop, and all apps -including SI2010SP-
run just fine. I don't expect this to be different when I move over to
the official release version.

cheers,

rob

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Alan Fregtman

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:07:17 AM10/27/09
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The general rule is if an app functioned in Vista, it's pretty sure
that it should work in Win7 too.

Chris Marshall

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:11:36 AM10/27/09
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XP?

Kris Rivel

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:13:19 AM10/27/09
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Thanks everyone.  Someone just had to through in Linux eh?....Kim.  I'll gladly bow down in front of Mr. Gates one more time in favor of guaranteed compatibility, zero driver issues and ease of use.

Kris

Kris Rivel

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:14:07 AM10/27/09
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I'm coming from XP 64 btw....never had Vista.  But all the good news about Win7 has convinced me to upgrade.

Kris

kim aldis

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:35:10 AM10/27/09
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that's you safe then. ;)

Luc-Eric Rousseau

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Oct 27, 2009, 11:50:54 AM10/27/09
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Arri

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Oct 27, 2009, 12:03:47 PM10/27/09
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I'm using Vista 64bit and it fine, no problems i notice
--

Arri Reschke

inhaler for Lung

 

[ tel ]           +27 21 421 8437

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[msn]          king...@hotmail.com

        

[animation] [vfx] [motion graphics]

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http://lung-animation.blogspot.com

Studio 1002 - 10th Floor - 4 Loop st

Cape Town - South Africa  8001

 

 

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Gerbrand Nel

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Oct 27, 2009, 12:17:37 PM10/27/09
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wow.. xp64.. I tried that for about a month, but found it to be unusable
;) switched to vista 64 and was pretty happy with that until I tried win
7. The only problem I've had with win 7 was quicktime. I had major
issues installing that.
Otherwise, I can't recommend win 7 enough
G

Kris Rivel wrote:
> I'm coming from XP 64 btw....never had Vista. But all the good news
> about Win7 has convinced me to upgrade.
>
> Kris
>
> On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Chris Marshall
> <chris.m...@eclipsecreative.co.uk
> <mailto:chris.m...@eclipsecreative.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> XP?
>
> On Tuesday, October 27, 2009, kim aldis <k...@kim-aldis.co.uk
> <mailto:k...@kim-aldis.co.uk>> wrote:
> > Fedora?
> >
> >
> > On 27 Oct 2009, at 14:10, Kris Rivel wrote:
> >
> >
> > So what flavor of Win7 is needed/recommended for us? Home
> Premium, Professional or Ultimate?
> >
> > Kris
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Alan Fregtman

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Oct 27, 2009, 12:21:19 PM10/27/09
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What kind of issues? Did you figure them out?

Gerbrand Nel

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Oct 27, 2009, 12:44:02 PM10/27/09
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uhhm.. yeah, but by luck.. no idea how.. I couldn't install quicktime.
no matter what. So i tried different versions of quicktime7 . no luck.
Then, a while later I was asked to do a web install of quicktime, and
that seemed to work
like I said... luck
G

Kris Rivel

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Oct 27, 2009, 2:37:36 PM10/27/09
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Interesting...I've been happy with xp64..no problems.  But its getting old and Win7 seems stable and proven enough to switch.

Kris

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 27, 2009, 3:51:29 PM10/27/09
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I'm running both XP64 and Win7 64 currently.  XP64 has come a long way since the early "nightmare" days of no drivers and limited support but it still has a few "gotchas". 

Windows 7, being a new OS, also will have some issues here and there - you can count on it.  Don't be surprised when you try to file/folder/drive share - it's a PITA just like Vista is/was.  It definitely takes some "tuning" to get it working really well.  I haven't run into a *lot* of issues with Win7 (a few older programs that refuse to install, the usual MSI incompatibility crap, drivers that have to be manually installed, etc), and admittedly I've been running the betas and not the "blessed" version - but I think overall you'll find Win7 to be stable and fast.  I trust it enough to have bought a few copies at the "pre-sale" price of $99. 

Alan Fregtman

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Oct 27, 2009, 4:01:13 PM10/27/09
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On the bright side, out of recent Windows versions, Win7 has received
the most testing out of any. :)

8 million brave testers worldwide is the figure I read on the intertubes.

tak...@earthlink.net

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Oct 27, 2009, 4:08:29 PM10/27/09
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Got my first BSOD I've seen in quite a few years yesterday while wrestling with windows7 and audio drivers.

For some reason the card I have is somewhat unsupported under windows 7 ( a relatively mainstream soundblaster card) and the beta drivers don't work, and I wouldn't care were it not for the fact this seems to affect my ability to play back movies, quicktime, etc.  Plugging in a USB set of headphones seems to "fix" it though.

Other than that I was really impressed with the fact that I could get windows up and running in <20 min.  Shocked, really. 

Shutdown and startup times are much better (compared to XP).

-T

Rob Wuijster

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Oct 27, 2009, 6:22:36 PM10/27/09
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Interesting,

Windows, Soundblaster and betadrivers in the same sentence ;-)

After the mess they made with drivers a long time ago I gave up and
never looked back. I've had M-Audio cards for a long time, nowadays it's
onboard audio. Works just fine.

rob

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tak...@earthlink.net

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Oct 27, 2009, 6:25:25 PM10/27/09
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-----Original Message-----
>From: Rob Wuijster <ro...@casema.nl>
>Sent: Oct 27, 2009 6:22 PM
>To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
>Subject: Re: which version of Windows 7
>

>Interesting,
>
>Windows, Soundblaster and betadrivers in the same sentence ;-)

and BSOD. yay

-T

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 27, 2009, 7:31:52 PM10/27/09
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Have you tried manually installing the Vista drivers for the card? (back up your registry first, of course)...

tak...@earthlink.net

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Oct 27, 2009, 7:36:46 PM10/27/09
to Joe Williamsen, soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Yeah, I did.  It sort of installs but I get nasty screechy scratching sound instead of audio. 

Found some other links to stuff that might work but overall not super encouraging.  Lots of reports of people claiming stuff worked if they removed RAM from their system to be <4gb which sort of defeats the purpose of going 64-bit in the first place.  :P

James De Colling

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Oct 27, 2009, 8:22:15 PM10/27/09
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Win7 RC1 (64bit) here, 6.5 / 7.01 running fine with a FX3700

laptop had some funky graphic issues, but that was a ATI x1600, but fixed with the opengl tag in the setenv

havent had a BSOD yet, but sometimes xsi will hang a bit while thinking and windows will think its stalled.

on another note, whats everyone think of the multi-tasking of Win7? ive never used Vista, but if I set XSI to below normal priority in XP, I could still browse the net happily while xsi renders in the background...in 7 I need to set to lowest priorty and even then it chunks along a bit

overall quite impressed with 7, picked up all hardware straight away, even offered to download the latest quadro drivers from nvidia as an optional download in the windows update

Michal Doniec

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Oct 28, 2009, 6:15:13 AM10/28/09
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Running Ultimate at home and Enterprise at work (just like 50 other people here). No issues with XSI as far as I can tell.
Win 7 is great system imo (obviosuly I am biased, but still).

piotrek marczak

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Oct 28, 2009, 6:34:51 AM10/28/09
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interesting thread

win7 is a patched vista, not a new system.

and xp64 work flawless with all 2d/3d 32/x64 softwares I tried.
Cant say the same about vista or win7.
after effects or 3ds max runs better on xp64 (performance/crash-wise).
This doesnt affect softimage which runs okay on all systems.

(i have win7 x64 at home, xp64 at work)

2009/10/28 Michal Doniec <don...@gmail.com>:

Claudio Pavan

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Oct 29, 2009, 3:56:33 AM10/29/09
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Hi Guys was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction
with a little problem I am having.

I have ice particle system set up (nothing crazy) and I want it to spit
out 1 particle every second or 2, so I put 1 in the rate and set it to
:number of particles per second:. But for some reason its not 1 particle
a second it seems very random still.

Is there a way to make it be 1 particle every second?

Thanks in advance.

Claudio

Steven Caron

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:05:20 AM10/29/09
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whats your scene frame rate?

Claudio Pavan

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:17:22 AM10/29/09
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25 (Pal)

Steven Caron

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:23:36 AM10/29/09
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thought you might have had 29.97 or something...

how many particles do you have at frame 25?

s

Claudio Pavan

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Oct 29, 2009, 7:01:22 AM10/29/09
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I have one but there after it spits out 2 close to each other and then from there pretty much takes a life of its own and seems to do what ever it likes :).

Mathieu Leclaire

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Oct 29, 2009, 10:30:52 AM10/29/09
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You have to open your emit compound and modify a few things, or create your own emit compound.

You can use a current frame node, plugged to a Modulo node and modulate it by 25 (so that at each 25th frame, the value outputs 0) and you plug that into a equal condition. You would then plug your Add point node to the true condition of your if node and plug that to the output port of your compound, or to the true input of the enable "if" node that's connected to the output of your emit compound (if you want to keep the enable condition). Now the next part depends on what type of emit you are using. If you are using an emit by position, you can just directly plug your Emit position into your Add Point Positions port and that should do the trick. Ignore all the other disconnected compounds, the convert rate per second, the select case, the build array, the filtered if emitted, etc...

That should do what you want. If you want a different emission type and need help, let me know. Otherwise, that should do the trick. The principle of this is to remove the random emission and replace it by a controllable one by using modulo and the current frame. Hope this helps.

-Mathieu

phil

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Oct 29, 2009, 3:30:04 PM10/29/09
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We are working for the local state lottery and they are claiming ownership to our software files, that we have
of course made completely in house, now I don't plan on giving these up, but I am wondering (in 16 years of business
no one has ever asked this of us before), but surely legally this is bs right?

Eric Thivierge / XSI Database

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Oct 29, 2009, 3:38:48 PM10/29/09
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What does it say in your contract? Sometimes work for hire means the client owns everything. Sometimes. I'm no lawyer but this is what I understood when I checked this out a few years back. It seemed always best to state in the contract what you were to provide to the client as final deliverables.

However, I believe normally the client only gets the final rendered image sequences not the source files unless otherwise stated in the contract.

Cheers,

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge

phil

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Oct 29, 2009, 3:50:43 PM10/29/09
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Eric,
 
    This was an on-going project that spans many years, and whatever the original contract was it definitely did not say they owned "everything".
 
thanks for your input
Phil harbath

Eric Lampi

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Oct 29, 2009, 3:54:22 PM10/29/09
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Actually, that is a very good question.  I am not sure how files are viewed under the law.

If you're a painter, and you sell someone a painting, it doesn't mean you give up your reproduction rights.  You need to specifically state it in a contract.  At least, that's the way it used to be, I don't expect that it's changed but you never know.

I'd be very interested to hear the facts if anyone knows.

Eric
 
Freelance 3-D Animator, F/X Artist

Jeffrey Dates

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:02:46 PM10/29/09
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But in my experience, the chances of them being able to view your files, let alone use them, is pretty slim.  Especially if you use anything non-default.  Like remote workgroups, scripts and such.

What I've done is determine it on a project-by-project basis.   Principal aside, do you stand to harm a client relationship if you withhold the data?   If so,  Just give them what they want, but explain you don't support them, unless they are on site.  ( meaning.. if they can't figure them out.. tough cookie! )

I know some people who plainly refuse to give up their data.  I can understand that as well...

Me, I'm in the other camp.  Because they are a client, and I value repeat business, I tend to just give them whatever they want.  Sure you run the risk of them going to another vendor with your data,  but typically if you have a good relationship with your client, you can just express that this is highly unorthodox, for this very reason.  

I often ask why?  What could they possibly want the data for?   Often, they want it for something like 'print', or 'web' content.. in which case I offer to just generate that media for cheaper then it would cost them to hire someone to try to figure out your data.

Legally, I think if it's not contractually obligated, then you can say, sorry, I don't do that.

Real Model-makers keep all the models they build for productions.  ( or charge a premium to release them )   I would think you could do the same.

I think, use your gut.  If it feels fishy..  push back.

Jeffrey Dates

tak...@earthlink.net

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:10:07 PM10/29/09
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or XSI

:P

-T

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Dates
Sent: Oct 29, 2009 4:02 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Martin Belleau

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:15:38 PM10/29/09
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We usually freeze everything, and give them the bare bones. That way we do give them the scene files, but stripped. That way they have no choice but to come back for modifs. It also pleases them that they think they get our complete scene files…

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dates


Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 4:03 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: OT: client claims file ownership

 

But in my experience, the chances of them being able to view your files, let alone use them, is pretty slim.  Especially if you use anything non-default.  Like remote workgroups, scripts and such.

Jeffrey Dates

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:19:13 PM10/29/09
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I'd be interested to hear from those who have given data to clients, only to have clients change to another vender, and turn over your data to them.

I'm fortunate, I've never had an issue with giving up project data.    But then,  It's usually data I don't care to see again anyway.  :-)

Steffen Dünner

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:22:24 PM10/29/09
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2009/10/29 Jeffrey Dates <kung...@gmail.com>
[...]
I often ask why?  What could they possibly want the data for?   Often, they want it for something like 'print', or 'web' content.. in which case I offer to just generate that media for cheaper then it would cost them to hire someone to try to figure out your data.
[...]

I know what they usually want it for: to save money, because the other 3D studio / freelancer doesn't need to model / animate / invent / style / do whatever you had to do and therefore can offer a much lower price. This is great for your beloved customer! They can dump you with your own stuff!

Give them your rendered layers, maybe the textures and other elements. But don't ever hand them over your 3D scenes, because they contain much much more than just some rendered pixels. They contain your workflow, your ideas and solutions to specific problems. They contain your recipe and the "secret ingredients".
What do you think the waiter or the cook tells you, if you ask for the recipe after eating at a good restaurant?!

Regards
Steffen 
--
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Fingerprint: 394B 3DA9 9A9A 96C6  3A5A 0595 EF92 EE1F

Graham D Clark

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Oct 29, 2009, 4:30:12 PM10/29/09
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On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 3:30 PM, phil <phil.h...@jamination.com> wrote:
If its for a brand, like a studio or company like your lottery, I especially understand, legally and for being prepared for future work. Often places will want to reuse parts or rework their logo or ad etc. Very often, later when needed, the shops that created them are out of business, hard to find, left it on old media, or just chucked it out, or to give the other perspective ask exorbitant fees.

From a client perspective example, getting the Nick logo was costly and getting the Paramount logo was a nightmare, it was in a box on a late employees desk at pactitle, for a while I had the only copy of the logo on a usb drive at home which was kinda funny, got called in for a godfather remaster.
Based on that unimpressive experience, I always ask for at least the basic layers with alphas, and often the files of renderable models, sometimes we've even required the .mb and .scns, of course all parts of vendors custom tools like rigs shaders etc are baked, very often for future work we require the assets, not merely the rendered image. The least we ask for is final layers with alphas. Then there's use of assets in other media that that shop cannot provide etc...
Of course this all gets put in writing, but all the vfx studios Ive dealt with even without this clause generally give us everything except custom things like rigs shaders etc. baked. Some even joked they might need to work on it again one day and well have the only back up copy :)
In the digital age the salt mines are looking better.
--
Graham D Clark, telephone: fad-take-two,
http://www.linkedin.com/in/grahamclark

Andy Jones

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Oct 29, 2009, 5:10:43 PM10/29/09
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If you want a simple out of the box solution for giving them something, but not your XSI scenes, you could maybe just bake out mi2 files.  Depending on how savvy they are, that could get you at least partially off the hook.

I guess I'm kind of inclined to agree that giving away the assets isn't such a terrible thing.  If the only way you're going to get more work from them is to withhold assets, you might not want to be working with them again anyway.  (Not to imply that that's necessarily the case in your situation).

I guess the part where it starts to get really dodgy for me is with tools you made that they don't want you to use again because they "own" them.  In that case, I would advocate trying to get them to agree to letting both of you continue to use the tools, in favor of having to argue about it.  You could explain that the tools are built on pre-exiting tools you already had, such that it's clear that negotiating outright ownership of the tools isn't worth the trouble.

- Andy

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 29, 2009, 5:34:38 PM10/29/09
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It depends on the contract.  I guess if you're disputing it, I'd ask them where they get their authority to claim ownership.

I'm working on a job right now where all of the assets created are owned by the client - but that's something I knew going into it....  On other contracts, I've negotiated for a client to have usage rights, but not exclusive rights, and no ownership of assets created..... it all depends on the contract....

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 29, 2009, 5:58:16 PM10/29/09
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To be honest, if a client is going to do this to you, consider it good
riddance. Just make sure you compensate for it in your initial bid -
(you'll know you need to charge them extra because this will be a clause
in the contract). Clients who are super-cheap or always looking for a
way around a fair rate are usually a nightmare to work with anyway, and
will suck the life out of you. Do the work, and move on.

Morten Bartholdy

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Oct 30, 2009, 4:30:54 AM10/30/09
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You have copyright to what you have created - the client only buys the final
product as defined in the contract be that imagery or other digital or
physical products you can produce. Think of it like a carfactory - the
customer buys a car - this does not mean he owns the productionline created
to build that car.

It can and does get more complicated in certain cases though. We do a lot of
work for a client where they provide models of their product. We then clean
them up, rig and shade them and animate them. This doesnt change the
ownership of the models - they are the property of said client, however the
rigs, shaders and scene setups, some of which or elements of which could be
proprietary, are your production line owned by you. You can choose to sell
such parts as a product, but then this should be stated in the contract.

Bottom line is I think you need to make good thoroughly thought out
contracts, not least to maintain a good relationship with your clients when
you say no you can't have this. In the end it also comes down to which kind
of relationship you wish to have with that client. If they are asking for
files after years of working with your company, it might be because they
want to go elsewhere.

Morten Bartholdy
3D & VFX Supervisor

----- Original Message -----
From: "phil" <phil.h...@jamination.com>
To: <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

kim aldis

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Oct 30, 2009, 5:46:30 AM10/30/09
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Bear in mind, all of the below relates to UK law, although the US
isn't that different, I don't think.

I've had this, a couple of times. In the UK, unless otherwise stated
in your terms of business or unless your client specifies differently
*before work begins*, the entire constructive process, pipeline as
well as data files, belong to you. You keep them, you stick to your
guns as far as is practically possible for you. If you do agree to
hand over, as well as data files there's a nasty grey area with
regards to proprietary software and data. For example, you may be
using proprietary scripted ops, compiled ops, ICE trees, materials,
whatever, from your own library, one that you've had for many years.
The would need that if they're to reconstruct parts of the job in any
meaningful way.

Remember also - and this has also happened to me - their reason for
wanting that data is so that they can get cheaper quotes from
suppliers other than you. In other words, the results of your hard
work are going to be used to gain advantage by prospective suppliers
who will be pitching against you.

Now for the nitty gritty - and this also happened to me. If you fight
this, you need to consider (obviously) how badly you want to keep this
client as well as (less obviously) how badly your client can hurt you
in a fight. The particular instance that sticks in my craw to this day
was when Dorland Kindersley decided they wanted the data files so the
BBC could pitch cheaply. They conceded, without prejudice, that they
had no legal right to claim the data but that they'd spin us round and
round in court until we gave up or keeled over and died from lack of
funding.

In the end, I parted with the data but - and bear in mind, you can't
be deliberately obstructive, so you need to act dumb on this - it was
archived on a mostly redundant tape format using an even more
redundant archive format. 'Sorry guv, that's all we have to backup
onto'.

I did have the great satisfaction, some months later, of having the
BBC - who quoted half what we did - and later DK, calling up begging
for help because they'd blown the entire 12 programme budget halfway
through the first show.

Stick to your guns, this shouldn't be encouraged. And get your TOS
ammended, make sure they sign.

good luck.

Steffen Dünner

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Oct 30, 2009, 6:03:17 AM10/30/09
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Amen! :)

Regards
Steffen


2009/10/30 kim aldis <k...@kim-aldis.co.uk>

kim aldis

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Oct 30, 2009, 6:05:40 AM10/30/09
to soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Just to add; you may want to think back to exactly what your client
asked you to do prior to commencement. Did he ask you just to 'do the
job', provide X shots, 'do the effects for this movie'. What was
discussed then would constitute the verbal contract that governed what
you were asked to supply. Verbal contracts, especially with witnesses,
are binding.

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 30, 2009, 9:44:44 AM10/30/09
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LOL - that's AWESOME - lol.... Here ya go - it's on Hi8 in ASCII - it's
what we use... it's ALL we use - lol....

rob...@texturelighting.com

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Oct 30, 2009, 9:57:06 AM10/30/09
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"... we keep all our data on 3.5" floppies...."
-- 
Render Theory: It either renders or it doesn't

Stephen Davidson

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Oct 30, 2009, 10:07:52 AM10/30/09
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Would this be of any help? :

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Code/Title_17/Chapter_1/Section_106A

 

 

 

 

Best Regards,

    Steve Davidson

    (954)552-7956
www.3danimationmagic.com

               

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of phil
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 03:30 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: OT: client claims file ownership

 

We are working for the local state lottery and they are claiming ownership to our software files, that we have

Stephen Davidson

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Oct 30, 2009, 10:08:33 AM10/30/09
to soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

 

 

 

Best Regards,

    Steve Davidson

    (954)552-7956
www.3danimationmagic.com

               

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of phil
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 03:30 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: OT: client claims file ownership

 

We are working for the local state lottery and they are claiming ownership to our software files, that we have

Stephen Davidson

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Oct 30, 2009, 10:13:19 AM10/30/09
to soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

And finally this:

Do U.S. Owners of Works of Art Also Control the Copyrights?

The claim is sometimes made by proprietors of works of art in the U.S. that ownership of a physical work of art also carries with it ownership of the copyright. This is quite simply a false and misleading assumption.

There have been only two major U.S. federal copyright acts in the twentieth century. The first was passed in 1909; the second was enacted in 1976 and became effective in 1978. Both acts make it clear that the sale or conveyance by the artist of his work of art does not carry with it the underlying copyright to the work. The following is the text of Section 27 of the 1909 Copyright Act, which remained in force until succeeded by the 1976 Act:

The copyright is distinct from the property in the material object copyrighted, and the sale or conveyance, by gift or otherwise, of the material object shall not in itself constitute a transfer of the copyright, nor shall the assignment of the copyright constitute a transfer of the title to the material object.

Section 202 of the 1976 Copyright Act (effective January 1, 1978) is equally unequivocal on the subject:

Ownership of a copyright, or of any of the exclusive rights under a copyright, is distinct from ownership of any material object in which the work is embodied. Transfer of ownership of any material object, including the copy or phonorecord in which the work is first fixed, does not of itself convey any right in the copyrighted work embodied in the object; nor, in the absence of an agreement, does transfer of ownership of a copyright or of any exclusive rights under a copyright convey property rights in any material object.

The impression that the artist forfeits his copyright when he sells his work was a short-lived one derived from the finding in the New York State case of Pushman v. New York Graphic Society Inc. (1942). A lower New York State court in that case seemed to hold that absent a signed agreement, the artist was presumed to have automatically conveyed the copyright and the rights of reproduction when he sold his work of art. Such at least was the conclusion drawn by a number of owners who sought to control the copyrights to the works in their collections. The clear intent of the 1909 law was that the artist retains the copyright unless he or she specifically signed it away in a written agreement. Pushman stood for the proposition that the artist automatically loses the copyright unless he or she retained it through a written agreement.

Thus "Pushman" contradicted the intent of the 1909 copyright law then in effect, with results which were recognized as so unfair that the New York State Legislature specifically overturned it by legislative action in 1966. The pertinent New York State Business Law provision follows:

Whenever a work of fine art is sold or otherwise transferred by or on behalf of the artist who created it, or his heirs or personal representatives, the right of reproduction thereof is reserved to the grantor until it passes into the public domain by act or operation of law unless such right is sooner expressly transferred by an instrument, note or memorandum in writing signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or his duly authorized agent. (Section 224, Article 12-E, 1966 New York General Business Law)

In spite of this negation of the "Pushman" finding, the presumption in the Pushman case is still erroneously employed by some to justify the marketing of works in their possession. The result over the years had been the growing participation of some owners in the poster, greeting card, toy, merchandise, and calendar business, coupled with a refusal to grant artists or their heirs either a royalty or a right to approve the products marketed. This has also served to encourage some manufacturers to ignore the claims of artists whose works they exploit, although by and large owners now recognize and respect the rights of creators and their heirs.

Additionally, under the national legislation of Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and virtually every other state in Western Europe, as well as under the provisions of the Berne Convention, to which the U.S. became an adherent on March 1, 1989, there has never been any doubt that the copyright always remains with the artist, but may be conveyed to an owner only if the artist specifically signs it away in a written document (a practice which is virtually unknown in Europe.)

 

 

 

Best Regards,

    Steve Davidson

    (954)552-7956
www.3danimationmagic.com

               

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of phil
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 03:30 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: OT: client claims file ownership

 

We are working for the local state lottery and they are claiming ownership to our software files, that we have

phil

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Oct 30, 2009, 1:15:31 PM10/30/09
to soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
"Just to add; you may want to think back to exactly what your client
asked you to do prior to commencement. Did he ask you just to 'do the
job', provide X shots, 'do the effects for this movie'. What was
discussed then would constitute the verbal contract that governed what
you were asked to supply. Verbal contracts, especially with witnesses,
are binding.
"

We really did not do anything, the project is very simple and we have to
redo it for every venue (sporting arenas, no 2 are the same), and they
decided that they wanted the
files so they could "update" it for free without going through us to save
money.

thanks for everyone's input, it has been extremely useful.
Phil


kim aldis

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Oct 30, 2009, 2:07:52 PM10/30/09
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So it looks like they're going away anyway. 'Bugger Off' seems like a
reasonable response then.

phil

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Oct 30, 2009, 2:13:20 PM10/30/09
to soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
actually it probably isn't that simple, this is just one particular project,
others do pop up.
I really don't mind them recreating the work, I don't claim to own the
"idea", but I built the file(s),
and I am not thrilled to give any scene/compositing files up.

Phil

Hans Payer

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Oct 30, 2009, 2:29:50 PM10/30/09
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Well I would simply ask for a fee. And tell them it's like going to a restaurant... You buy the dish not the recipe.
--
Hans

Joe Williamsen

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Oct 30, 2009, 3:23:03 PM10/30/09
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Someone else mentioned it, and I've had it happen to me as well - sometimes the client finds out (once they have all the assets) that watching the DVD extras on Jurrasic Park did NOT give them the requisite knowledge to recreate your work - nor do any 3D programs have a "make cool art" button - and they end up coming back hat in hand ;)  Sometimes, it's just a learning process they have to go through ..... but I fully understand not wanting to give up your files "just because"...  (I'm all for using the freaky-weird archive method - lol)

Norm Olsen

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Oct 30, 2009, 5:00:30 PM10/30/09
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Not having read the beginning of how this all came about (I wiped out the previous batch of mail list emails, must have missed this one), I suppose it depends on how the contract was set up (what kind of ownership clauses if any for instance). If based in the US, and there is no "work for hire" type clause, the IP creator retains the actual copyrights (here in Canuck land, it's the inverse... payment for IP creation = ownership / copyright holder of IP [unless otherwise stated within the contract]). I suppose situations like this is why it is crucial to have everything (including IP ownership) in writing, as to have no ambiguity (this would include additional requests in spur of the moments and the like).

As for "ideas", don't worry, you cannot claim them anyway. Copyright law doesn't protect "ideas / concepts", but rather the execution of those, be it concept art sketches or final finished product.


> From: phil.h...@jamination.com
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: client claims file ownership
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:13:20 -0400
>
> actually it probably isn't that simple, this is just one particular project,
> others do pop up.
> I really don't mind them recreating the work, I don't claim to own the
> "idea", but I built the file(s),
> and I am not thrilled to give any scene/compositing files up.
>
> Phil



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William Pleydon

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Oct 31, 2009, 11:32:43 AM10/31/09
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Even in Canada, only the rights to the final work would be transfered, not any of the materials, scene files and such used in the creation of the work, unless spelled out ahead of time in the contract.
 
William
----- Original Message -----
From: Norm Olsen
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