Autodesk Tech Preview

[Ureche Octavian]

http://area.autodesk.com/blogs/eric/technology_preview_video

apart from the fact that it's a pretty cool tech for game dev,

is it just me or do those node trees look "somewhat" familiar :)

--

okto | visual

www.okto.ro

[Eric Cosky]

That’s pretty impressive.

[James Brad Barnette [3Dmotif]]

 

I just watched this and then saw this message pop up what all is that they have going on there? What game engine is that, that they have it linked with Maya like that?

[André Adam]

Looks like someone at Autodesk had a tour of Natural Motion's morpheme recently.

[David Rivera]

James, I could tell you from my point of view:
Most nowadays game engines are implementing a structural node for game logic commands.
I was actually surprised that AD finally has paid direct attention to the necessity of game industry
standards directly inside of their 3d applications (naming Maya and Max plus - God allows- SI).
ICE pipelines to come into the game and people like me (with no coding background at all) could
easily develop complex math stuff in a snap. The same way, game logic-node-building in applications
like blender, unity, udk and shiva adopted for their users to concentrate more on asthetistics
and less on coding has reached AD´s eye.

That´s a big plus for a decade of "work arounds". Let´s hope we can finally apply all the shortcuts
of 3d production inside those new technologies from AD.

Jaw dropped when watching the video demo and saw the guy cycling the character, converted into a clip,
re-loading it in native Maya, reshaping curves, and continuing the game (the same animation clip) from
a "visual log debugging". I said: Thank you AD.

Bests.
David.

From: James Brad Barnette [3Dmotif] <si_...@3dmotif.com>
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Cc:
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 3:04 PM
Subject: RE: Autodesk Tech Preview

I just watched this and then saw this message pop up what all is that they have going on there? What game engine is that, that they have it linked with Maya like that?

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Cosky
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 1:28 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Autodesk Tech Preview

 

[mike malinowski]

Agreed, this is a really interesting tech demo. Animation is always an iterative process ( especially when a game engine can have many layers stacked on top of the original motion ) and having to compare and distinguish differences between what you see in the DCC application and the engine can be a time consuming process. Being able to combine the two in the way that the video shows would increase the efficiency of debugging as well as polishing.

Some of it certainly does scream of morpheme (which is no bad thing), but if this is a direction they take then it would certainly go a long way to streamlining the animation process within a game pipe.I certainly hope they release more info during GDC.

 

Mike.

[Carl Callewaert - Fundi3D]

It is a game engine or is about animation for a game engine

c

[Gene Crucean]

Holy ICE interface ripoff.

--
[Gene Crucean] - [VFX & CG Supervisor/Generalist]
** Freelance for hire **

[Meng-Yang Lu]

I think it was bound to happen no?  Since ICE came out, everyone else has been creating similar interfaces.  Not hard to expect it to happen considering we're all one big happy Autodesk family. 

-Lu 

[Steven Caron]

well, they do own it now and the talent behind it.. *shrug*

s

On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Gene Crucean <emailgene...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

The funny thing is how AD told they were buying SI for it's game connections and capabilities, then
push game stuff in Maya..

Quite impressive demo by the way.

Cheers
Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos

2011/2/26 Steven Caron <car...@gmail.com>

[Steven Caron]

they hired talented individuals that work for softimage. :)

[Eric Turman]

There's an old saying about Innovation and Imitation... ;)

--




-=T=-

[Matt Lind]

Wouldn’t be surprised to see more products get pushed into games.  There are more seats to sell in the games market than film.  

 

Matt

[André Adam]

To be fair, though, this type of interface has been around long before ICE.

[Jean-Philippe Delisle]

That’s true. The ICE interface is only a kind of flow chart and flow charts are really not new^^

If we see a lot of those “ICE interface”, it’s only because it’s a time saver. I did thing in ICE that could have take me 10 times what it takes me if I had to use C++ (and I’m still not close to dev in C++ with confidence).

Everybody is able to connect node, but writing script or programming... it can be repulsive. Also, Nodes are now a common thing in CG. To max guy it’s new^^ But anybody in compositing and rendering are used to node. It makes the job of developing 3D software easier. One open system with core element to upgrade instead of adding every little option that people needs. More freedom to the artist!!!

Particules is the best example in softimage. The old particule system with lot of PPGs in PPGs in PPGs... what a mess!!!

 

Animation is a area that need a lot more of those kind of system. For previz, being able to connect some nodes, to make a regular walk from here to there with a node that does the path finding with some state machines. Pure goodness.

 

 

From: André Adam

Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:36 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview

 

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

true; but the graph interface in that demo is specifically an exact
copy of the ICE graph and compound editor, written by an ex-softimage
colleague, except with the M&E "dark look" skin. It's possible that
XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future.

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Jean-Philippe Delisle
<delis...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> That�s true. The ICE interface is only a kind of flow chart and flow charts
> are really not new^^
> If we see a lot of those �ICE interface�, it�s only because it�s a time

> saver. I did thing in ICE that could have take me 10 times what it takes me

> if I had to use C++ (and I�m still not close to dev in C++ with confidence).

> Everybody is able to connect node, but writing script or programming... it

> can be repulsive. Also, Nodes are now a common thing in CG. To max guy it�s

> new^^ But anybody in compositing and rendering are used to node. It makes
> the job of developing 3D software easier. One open system with core element
> to upgrade instead of adding every little option that people needs. More
> freedom to the artist!!!
> Particules is the best example in softimage. The old particule system with
> lot of PPGs in PPGs in PPGs... what a mess!!!
>
> Animation is a area that need a lot more of those kind of system. For
> previz, being able to connect some nodes, to make a regular walk from here
> to there with a node that does the path finding with some state machines.
> Pure goodness.
>
>

> From: Andr� Adam
> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:36 AM
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview
>
> To be fair, though, this type of interface has been around long before ICE.
>
>
> On 26.02.2011 00:14, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>

> I think it was bound to happen no?� Since ICE came out, everyone else has
> been creating similar interfaces.� Not hard to expect it to happen

[Eugen Sares]

Am 26.02.2011, 15:44 Uhr, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau <luce...@gmail.com>:

> true; but the graph interface in that demo is specifically an exact
> copy of the ICE graph and compound editor, written by an ex-softimage
> colleague, except with the M&E "dark look" skin. It's possible that
> XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future.

If so, don't forget a brightness param in the preferences.

>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Jean-Philippe Delisle
> <delis...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> That’s true. The ICE interface is only a kind of flow chart and flow

>> charts
>> are really not new^^

>> If we see a lot of those “ICE interface”, it’s only because it’s a time

>> saver. I did thing in ICE that could have take me 10 times what it
>> takes me

>> if I had to use C++ (and I’m still not close to dev in C++ with

>> confidence).
>> Everybody is able to connect node, but writing script or programming...
>> it
>> can be repulsive. Also, Nodes are now a common thing in CG. To max guy

>> it’s

>> new^^ But anybody in compositing and rendering are used to node. It
>> makes
>> the job of developing 3D software easier. One open system with core
>> element
>> to upgrade instead of adding every little option that people needs. More
>> freedom to the artist!!!
>> Particules is the best example in softimage. The old particule system
>> with
>> lot of PPGs in PPGs in PPGs... what a mess!!!
>>
>> Animation is a area that need a lot more of those kind of system. For
>> previz, being able to connect some nodes, to make a regular walk from
>> here
>> to there with a node that does the path finding with some state
>> machines.
>> Pure goodness.
>>
>>
>> From: André Adam
>> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:36 AM
>> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview
>>
>> To be fair, though, this type of interface has been around long before
>> ICE.
>>
>>
>> On 26.02.2011 00:14, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:
>>

>> I think it was bound to happen no? Since ICE came out, everyone else
>> has
>> been creating similar interfaces. Not hard to expect it to happen

[Eugen Sares]

Am 26.02.2011, 16:21 Uhr, schrieb Eugen Sares <soft...@keyvis.at>:

> Am 26.02.2011, 15:44 Uhr, schrieb Luc-Eric Rousseau
> <luce...@gmail.com>:
>
>> true; but the graph interface in that demo is specifically an exact
>> copy of the ICE graph and compound editor, written by an ex-softimage
>> colleague, except with the M&E "dark look" skin. It's possible that
>> XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future.
>
> If so, don't forget a brightness param in the preferences.
>

forgot to say please!
Best,
E

[Jean-Philippe Delisle]

"XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future" ...like the darker max or maya Qt interface? ^^

 

-----Message d'origine-----

From: Luc-Eric Rousseau

Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 9:44 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview

 

true; but the graph interface in that demo is specifically an exact

copy of the ICE graph and compound editor, written by an ex-softimage

colleague, except with the M&E "dark look" skin.  It's possible that

XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future.

 

On Sat, Feb 26, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Jean-Philippe Delisle

<delis...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> That’s true. The ICE interface is only a kind of flow chart and flow charts

> are really not new^^

> If we see a lot of those “ICE interface”, it’s only because it’s a time

> saver. I did thing in ICE that could have take me 10 times what it takes me

> if I had to use C++ (and I’m still not close to dev in C++ with confidence).

> Everybody is able to connect node, but writing script or programming... it

> can be repulsive. Also, Nodes are now a common thing in CG. To max guy it’s

> new^^ But anybody in compositing and rendering are used to node. It makes

> the job of developing 3D software easier. One open system with core element

> to upgrade instead of adding every little option that people needs. More

> freedom to the artist!!!

> Particules is the best example in softimage. The old particule system with

> lot of PPGs in PPGs in PPGs... what a mess!!!

>

> Animation is a area that need a lot more of those kind of system. For

> previz, being able to connect some nodes, to make a regular walk from here

> to there with a node that does the path finding with some state machines.

> Pure goodness.

>

>

> From: André Adam

> Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 2:36 AM

> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

> Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview

>

> To be fair, though, this type of interface has been around long before ICE.

>

>

> On 26.02.2011 00:14, Meng-Yang Lu wrote:

>

> I think it was bound to happen no?  Since ICE came out, everyone else has

> been creating similar interfaces.  Not hard to expect it to happen

[Schoenberger]

...like the darker - and slower - QT interface...

 

(just had a few artists which complained about that)

 

Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Delisle
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:19 AM

[Rob Wuijster]

Just add the option for colorchanges in the xml files for the GUI, and have people go wild ;-)

rob
\/-------------\/----------------\/

On 2/28/2011 12:06 PM, Schoenberger wrote:

...like the darker - and slower - QT interface...

 

(just had a few artists which complained about that)

 

Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Delisle
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 6:19 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview

"XSI's UI will evolve into that darker look in the future" ....like the darker max or maya Qt interface? ^^

---

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3472 - Release Date: 02/27/11

[javier gonzalez]

Other reviews

Maya Animation Technology Preview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEM9GuEMla8&feature=player_embedded

Maya Viewport Technology Preview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5hpDNWljlI&feature=related

[Todd Akita]

Yeah the response to QT at Psyop has not been entirely positive given the performance hit.

-T

[Marc Brinkley]

Yeah I have to admit, I am kinda torn. In some ways it looks nice but functions a little weird sometimes.

 

I would be curious to know what ADSK thinks about Qt now that Nokia is moving away from it with its recent announcement…that I had nothing to do with for the record. J

 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Marc Brinkley

GO GO GO

Microsoft Game Studios

Good Science

marc.brinkley [at] microsoft.com

[Raffaele Fragapane]

I don't know how much Qt should be blamed for, as opposed to implementation and architectural constraints and issues.
There are other Qt based products of considerable complexity out there that don't have the same performance issues. The aerospace and medviz industries have some incredibly data and interface heavy stuff running on it without complaints, as do the foundry, newtek (modo too?), daz and a number of other DCC apps.

Would be cool to hear from the autodesk developers who had to deal with the port actualy, but I guess the chances are slim to none other than the infomercials posted on Qt's own site.

[tak...@earthlink.net]

Yeah, well all I know is that everyone's been turning it off (it's a preference apparently) so they can work.  So there's probably definitely some room for improvement somewhere. 

-T

-----Original Message-----
From: Raffaele Fragapane
Sent: Feb 28, 2011 10:47 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Autodesk Tech Preview

[Steven Caron]

woah, its a pref they can just turn off?

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Are we talking about Qt here?
Because Qt is the backend to the platform right now, and you can't turn it on and off.
Maybe you're thinking of viewport 2.0? If that, then yeah, it's a lollable hog right now and everybody I know has it off.

--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

[tak...@earthlink.net]

OK then maybe it is viewport 2 that is the problem.  But they have been complaining that QT has been slow(er) as well.

To be honest I'm not sure which has been the problem (either?  both?) but all I've been hearing is grumbling.

-T

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

I used Maya some years ago only for modeling and shape creation, and now I'm stuck with it again.
I didn't liked it, as I found it counter intuitive, you almost need three or four more click for most modeling operations than in SI, and you alway have to
take care that your scene is not polluted with unused hidden nodes, reflection modeling that don't work for middle points, and so on....
Now with 2011, well there are many things that just stop working during the session, tool parameters that are not editable anymore, viewport's show options are lying to you,
I don't talk about the many crashes and freezes I have at modeling stage on a simple human character, and yes it's sloooooooooooowww....

Softimage, I miss you..

Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos

2011/3/1 <tak...@earthlink.net>

[Stefan Kubicek]

You just summarized my experiences pretty well.
I can't understand how anyone can possible get anything out of Maya within a reasonable time (compared to other apps).

--
-------------------------------------------
Stefan Kubicek Co-founder
-------------------------------------------
keyvis digital imagery
1050 Vienna Wehrgasse 9 Austria
Phone: +43/699/12614231
--- www.keyvis.at ste...@keyvis.at ---
-- This email and its attachments are
--confidential and for the recipient only--

[Stefan Kubicek]

Btw, Pfeiffer Consulting did some research on 3dsMax and Maya 2011 productivity compared to earlier versions of the software.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100727005560/en/Pfeiffer-Publishes-Autodesk-Maya-Autodesk-3ds-Max

It's quite interesting to see that most enhancements they attribute the speed improvements of Maya 2011 over 2010 to
are features that have been in Softimage and 3dsMax for ages. I'd so love to see a similar study on productivity in Softimage compared to Maya.
But we all know that aint gonna happen :-)

[Tim Leydecker]

> I can't understand how anyone can possible get anything out of Maya within a reasonable time (compared to other apps).

I can recommend Maya because it helped me build up
the willingness to make sacrifices and gave me the
ability to suffer...

In the long-run, this might be regarded as lead capabilities.

If understood at all...

Cheers

tim

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

I can recommend Maya because it helped me build up
the willingness to make sacrifices and gave me the
ability to suffer...

In the long-run, this might be regarded as lead capabilities.

If understood at all...

You've made my day :)

[Tim Leydecker]

I wasn�t joking... :-)

Humbly yours,

Cheers

tim

[Ureche Octavian]

so much maya hate in here.... you do realize experiences differ.

been using maya for as long as i can remember (v 2.0), and i'm being "stuck"

on a pretty large animation pitch project. i honesly can't complain. (linux here).

yeah, most of the time feels like i'm trying to draw with a hammer, but what it 

lacks in finesse and artist friendliness, totally makes up for in the depth of its

sdk, and the ability to pretty much change and access anything anywhere. 

i can sum up my experiences like this: xsi always took me there nicer and alot faster, but

when i got stuck...i usually got stuck for good. maya was always a pain and alot slower

to get from point a to b. but on the other hand i never found a situation in which i was

stuck. i could always write some simple mel script, or get one, or take one apart, and use

what i needed to get out of the mud. can't say the same for xsi (lack of scripts and people to ask maybe?).

now with ice, things have surely changed, but pipelines were already in place when that came around.  

--

okto | visual

www.okto.ro

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

Could you give some concrete examples? Was it feature lacking, or pipe integration?
I know there are some specific fields where Softimage coudn't compete like paint effect,
fluids, ocean, and dynamcs in general. But today, with ICE and the third party tools that
came with it, things have changed and still do!
Now I also know how ICE can be time consuming , specially at the beginning.

Cheers

Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos

2011/3/1 Ureche Octavian <okt...@gmail.com>

[Ureche Octavian]

well, one of the first things that comes to mind ( and it has nothing to do with maya per se),

is ascii scene formats. i think that alone, has been a huge saver for me, when dealing

with large projects, loads of point caches, sim data, textures and u name it. 

the ability to just open a scene in notepad++/gedit and just change stuff , references, values etc, in 20 sec, instead of 20 min, is awesome. plus, i've had corrupted scenes that i recovered simply by removing the part that was crashing, or by copy/pasting the content that was working. (same goes for nuke). i know u can parse xsi scene data via xml, but hitting F4

over a file is so much more elegant :)

i would love to see that one day in soft, cuz it sure saves my ass on a quasi daily basis.

 

cheers.

--

okto | visual

www.okto.ro

[Ureche Octavian]

oh almost forgot...a proper key for stopping xsi's activity wouldn't hurt (hint: ESC key would do fine). for those of us stuck in wacom land...it's a nightmare.

--

okto | visual

www.okto.ro

[David Gallagher]

And my experiences. I realllllly prefer modeling in Softimage.

The main thing I miss in Softimage modeling is pickwalking of points.
You can select a ring of point around an arm, say, then walk the
selection up/down the arm.

Has anyone found a way to do this in Softimage?
Dave

[Alan Fregtman]

Not quite the same... but you can select a component, alt+leftclick on
another and it selects the shortest path between the two.

[Olivier Jeannel]

Amen to that.

[Thomas Helzle]

There's a new "stop" button for the timeline now in 2012, but it seems
it's just there to prevent you from clicking several times in a row on
play to stop it.
Yeah, a dedicated, non-suffering-from-wacom-problems
stop-whatever-you-are-doing key or button (Big, Red and with the word
"PANIC" on it in friendly letters :-) ) would be great.

Well, maybe in 2013 ;-)

Cheers,

Thomas Helzle

On 1 March 2011 17:18, Olivier Jeannel <olivier...@noos.fr> wrote:
> Amen to that.

> Le 01/03/2011 15:34, Ureche Octavian a �crit�:

[peter boeykens]

20k$ savings for one person in a year ?
I'm not sure if I go to the bank and show I just bought a new maya license,
they will give me that mortgage just yet.

My no1. productivity enhancement request for XSI would be a little tool that
detects if one is using maya keyboard mapping.
If so, then every ten minutes it would pop up a message saying "this
software is not maya - please stop acting like it is" - and perhaps
gradually over time the popups would become less frequent. Surely with the
new viewport API that would be a piece of cake to make?

I don't know for you guys - but this would save me so much frustration every
day I'd end up twice as productive as a side effect. (and hint: I wouldn't
be the one getting the popups :-) )

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Stefan Kubicek" <s...@tidbit-images.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 11:48 AM