Null effect weight bulge !!!

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

I've been trying to figure this out, as too how to get the neutral
position of a Null so that it effects a weight map value. I don't know
how to explain what I've done all I can say is my goal is simple, as the
null gets closer to the weight map the weight map starts to begin from
0-1 as it within range it's a 1 and it goes vise versa as it moves away.

[Stephen Blair]

Hi

None of the other threads on this subject, or the screenshot you posted earlier, do any writing of weightmap values.
So I don't understand.

Steve

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

Oh the last message did go though. Anyhow the last ICE tree I posted in
the last message, is writing to weight map values !! It works here !

[Stephen Blair]

I don't see any Set Data on the weightmap, am I going blind? ;-)

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

CheeSesus, the server says that 3 messages have come in, yet only one
comes in !!
No I didn't set Data on the Weight Map but it works the problem is when
the null is at neutral position (0,0,0) and I move the null the weight
map value goes to a insane value and when the null is out of the range
of the weight map it stays at that value. The null is moving literally
within the weight map, if you can imagine a tube / cylinder / pipe /
whatever whereas the null is moving within !!!

[Stephen Blair]

What is setting the weight map value?
The ICE tree is not setting the weight map value.

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

I don't see why I need to set a weight map value when there is a condition!

[nebbe...@googlemail.com]

Am not sure what your asking. Are bulge a tire for example, with a null driven by distance. Because u may want to look at a ray cast node or even simpler a lattice.
Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone from Virgin Media

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

I want to strictly use ICE for this, Ray Cast needs geometry what I have
does work to a point !!

[Eric Thivierge]

I sense this is going to be in contention for thread of the year already!

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
Technical Director
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Juan Brockhaus]

!!
not sure what you're looking for!?!
but is it maybe this!?!!
!!
the null drives the weightmap!!
the ice tree is on the grid!!
! !
when the null leaves the grid the weightmap is black!
only where the null is the weightmap has a value!!!
!!
hope that helps!!!

!
Juan!!
!!

[Robert Chapman]

its like trying to strike a match on Jelly....

[christian keller]

BAD BAD BAD S/N

btw, where´s kim ?

christian keller
visual effects|direction

+49 0179 69 36 248
chr...@gmx.de

[Andi Farhall]

i'll get some popcorn......

[Thomas Volkmann]

http://rray.de/xsi/ do a search for "proximity".... or am i completely
mistaken?

[Rob Wuijster]

way ahead of you....

\/-------------\/----------------\/

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[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

Completely Mistaken, although I see the direction your aiming at :-)

[Williams, Wayne]

Do you want it to bulge similar to how a kernel of corn does when it pops??!

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

Yes, when the null reaches close to the kernel :-) It would start to pop
! when the null is away from the kernel the popcorn would revert back to
a kernel :-)

[kim aldis]

I have my head in a vice.

[christian keller]

i see, this way the pain is very controllable

christian keller
visual effects|direction

+49 0179 69 36 248
chr...@gmx.de

[Raffaele Fragapane]

What you're talking about (or at least that's what it sounds like) is more than just distance.
You want to make an arbitrary distinction between something approaching the mesh, and something moving away from it. Distance, which in most of its uses is unsigned, will not do that, as the object is only aware of being N units away from its target, but there is no way to know if that's on approach or departure.

If you want that kind of behaviour you'll need a simulated tree, store a starting point, and then based on the movement vector and the previous state's distance work out whether you're approaching or moving away.

Alternatively, if you know the point of a poly hull you will be approaching or if you're dealing with things like grids, you can test the vector between that point and your object againt the normal of that point, and assume that if the dot product between the two is positive, you are approaching, if it's negative, you're moving away.

--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

That is exactly what I've been trying to describe :-)  Hrm!!

[Eric Thivierge]

Raff wins!

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
Technical Director
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

On 1/17/2011 6:00 PM, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:

What you're talking about (or at least that's what it sounds like) is more than just distance.
You want to make an arbitrary distinction between something approaching the mesh, and something moving away from it. Distance, which in most of its uses is unsigned, will not do that, as the object is only aware of being N units away from its target, but there is no way to know if that's on approach or departure.

If you want that kind of behaviour you'll need a simulated tree, store a starting point, and then based on the movement vector and the previous state's distance work out whether you're approaching or moving away.

Alternatively, if you know the point of a poly hull you will be approaching or if you're dealing with things like grids, you can test the vector between that point and your object againt the normal of that point, and assume that if the dot product between the two is positive, you are approaching, if it's negative, you're moving away.

How do I find the point of a poly hall.  Is it the right direction to be getting .global.kine.pos for the null and dot product that together with point normal !?!?

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

Doesn't a dot product do the same thing as a 'get distance between' ? I haven't come up with anything that works but this made me wonder ! Both release scalar values!

[Raffaele Fragapane]

No, it doesn't
The dot product is signed and is used to find the root of the angle between vectors. This means it will be 0 when two vectors are orthogonal, positive when their directions are less than 90 degrees apart, and negative when their directions are more than 90 degrees apart.

Distance is factored nowhere in any of the vector products, they will just give you a scalar related to their angle (dot or scalar product), or another vector orthogonal to both or a 0vector when the vectors in the product lay on the same "line" (cross or vector product).

[Raffaele Fragapane]

And in those regards, reading about stuff on wikipedia, instead of assuming two operations would be so redudnant just based on the type of their output, might get you a lot further along than chain posting ;)

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

No, it doesn't
The dot product is signed and is used to find the root of the angle between vectors. This means it will be 0 when two vectors are orthogonal, positive when their directions are less than 90 degrees apart, and negative when their directions are more than 90 degrees apart.

Distance is factored nowhere in any of the vector products, they will just give you a scalar related to their angle (dot or scalar product), or another vector orthogonal to both or a 0vector when the vectors in the product lay on the same "line" (cross or vector product).

DistanceBetween fires out a scalar based on two vector or scalar data inputs ?
In this case what am I finding a distance of the null and the point position or the null and the point normal ? Currently I have a simulated ICE Tree setting the data on a variable.

Speaking left to right :-) 
global.pos of the null and dot product that with the point position of the object > dot product into the subtract, subtracting the weight map then that is all going into the set data variable all on a simulated ice tree.

"I thought we were progressing with voice communication, we've become barbaric as it's become socially accepted to write everything out"

[Raffaele Fragapane]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account <christo...@gmail.com> wrote:

DistanceBetween fires out a scalar based on two vector or scalar data inputs ?

It's a question you can answer by just looking at the node.
 

In this case what am I finding a distance of the null and the point position or the null and the point normal ? Currently I have a simulated ICE Tree setting the data on a variable.

The distance between the point position and a normal has no sense, one is a displacement vector telling you where the object is, the other a normalized direction vector telling you which way the normal of the surface is facing.

Get the vector between a chosen location on the surface and your null (subtracting the two in the right order), then get the dot product between that and the normal from that location. When the dot product is positive, you are approaching that point on the surface (assuming you are travelling in a direction opposite to the normal), when it's negative, you are moving away from it.
The distance you only need when you want a magnitude to effect change on the state of the object, it tells you nothing in regards to approaching or departing, which was your initial problem.
 

Speaking left to right :-) 
global.pos of the null and dot product that with the point position of the object > dot product into the subtract, subtracting the weight map then that is all going into the set data variable all on a simulated ice tree.

If you do it the way I'm suggesting above, you don't need a simualated ice tree, as per my initial mail.
You only need to use a simulated ice tree if you want to compare the distance from the object at the previous frame with the current one, in which case you won't need a dot product, since given a threshold/fine enough subframe sampling, you would know whether you are approaching the object or moving away from it based on the rate of change, if the distance is decreasing compared to the previous frame, you are approaching, if it's increasing, you are moving away from it.
 

"I thought we were progressing with voice communication, we've become barbaric as it's become socially accepted to write everything out"

Not sure what to make of that.
Starting to smell a powercardinal here... who was it that jinxed it in the retrospective thread?

[Alan Fregtman]

Your intuition is right.

He is, in fact, PowerCardinal (a.k.a. Christopher The Creative Sheep
and NerdOwl on xsibase.)

[Raffaele Fragapane]

The continued lack of acknowledgment of anything that's going on, combined with the kind of persistance in refusing to put any effort into anything normally only found in koalas and pandas, was kind of a giveaway.
Do I win anything?
But more importantly, why did I bother?

[Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Christopher Nerd - Gmail Account <christo...@gmail.com> wrote:

DistanceBetween fires out a scalar based on two vector or scalar data inputs ?

It's a question you can answer by just looking at the node.
 

In this case what am I finding a distance of the null and the point position or the null and the point normal ? Currently I have a simulated ICE Tree setting the data on a variable.

The distance between the point position and a normal has no sense, one is a displacement vector telling you where the object is, the other a normalized direction vector telling you which way the normal of the surface is facing.

Get the vector between a chosen location on the surface and your null (subtracting the two in the right order), then get the dot product between that and the normal from that location. When the dot product is positive, you are approaching that point on the surface (assuming you are travelling in a direction opposite to the normal), when it's negative, you are moving away from it.
The distance you only need when you want a magnitude to effect change on the state of the object, it tells you nothing in regards to approaching or departing, which was your initial problem.
 

Speaking left to right :-) 
global.pos of the null and dot product that with the point position of the object > dot product into the subtract, subtracting the weight map then that is all going into the set data variable all on a simulated ice tree.

If you do it the way I'm suggesting above, you don't need a simualated ice tree, as per my initial mail.
You only need to use a simulated ice tree if you want to compare the distance from the object at the previous frame with the current one, in which case you won't need a dot product, since given a threshold/fine enough subframe sampling, you would know whether you are approaching the object or moving away from it based on the rate of change, if the distance is decreasing compared to the previous frame, you are approaching, if it's increasing, you are moving away from it.

I had created a Simulated ICE Tree, can I post what I had done, now I shouldn't create an Simulated ICETree?

 

"I thought we were progressing with voice communication, we've become barbaric as it's become socially accepted to write everything out"

Not sure what to make of that.
Starting to smell a powercardinal here... who was it that jinxed it in the retrospective thread?

The last part was something that I was playing with it had nothing to do with the message !

[kim aldis]

You win Christopher. You can take him home and love him and hug him and love him and hug him and ..........

Don't forget to feed him. He eats cardboard and likes milk but you can't teach him tricks.

[peter boeykens]

assuming dot product and distance are the same thing because they both produce scalars is pretty far off.

that’s like saying a multiplication and an addition are the same thing because they both produce a figure.

 

 

You did go to school right? Then you probably learned all of this before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_product

 

overly simplified - between two vectors:

 

the distance is a subtraction - the result is a new vector - if you get a scalar its going to be the length of that vector

the dot product a multiplication - the result is the angle between them - which can be described with a scalar

 

now the vectors used for both operations aren't the same.

for a distance you need vectors describing a position

for a dot product you need vectors describing a direction. (such vectors don’t have a position, so a distance between them is nonsense.)

 

...

 

[Rob Wuijster]

Show's over? ;)

\/-------------\/----------------\/

[Darren Macpherson]

'Starting to smell a powercardinal here... who was it that jinxed it in the retrospective thread? '

Ah crap, I think that might have been me.  Sorry, I failed to realise how powerful I am.

--

darren macpherson | 3d artist | +2772 355 0924 | www.darrenmacpherson.com | dar...@darrenmacpherson.com | skype: darren.macpherson

[Olivier Jeannel]

...In Kung Fu Panda, the panda indeed puts some efforts in the end.

[Adam Seeley]

intermission...

 

	Adam Seeley Senior Animator, Commercials, UK T: +44 (0)20 7565 1000   E: adam....@primefocusworld.com@primefocusworld.com www.primefocusworld.com

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wuijster
Sent: 18 January 2011 08:51

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Null effect weight bulge !!!

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3385 - Release Date: 01/17/11 19:34:00

[Williams, Wayne]

Darren Macfearsome power for the lose L

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Darren Macpherson
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:34 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Null effect weight bulge !!!

 

'Starting to smell a powercardinal here... who was it that jinxed it in the retrospective thread? '

[Matt Lind]

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/4ba57de

 

 

 

Matt

[Alan Fregtman]

http://tinysong.com/hM8v

;)

[Rob Wuijster]

Argh... now I cannot get it out of my head!!! %-)

\/-------------\/----------------\/

http://tinysong.com/hM8v

;)

You win Christopher. You can take him home and love him and hug him and love him and hug him and ...........

 

Don't forget to feed him. He eats cardboard and likes milk but you can't teach him tricks.

 

On 18 Jan 2011, at 03:33, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:

The continued lack of acknowledgment of anything that's going on, combined with the kind of persistance in refusing to put any effort into anything normally only found in koalas and pandas, was kind of a giveaway.
Do I win anything?
But more importantly, why did I bother?

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Alan Fregtman <alan.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your intuition is right.

He is, in fact, PowerCardinal (a.k.a. Christopher The Creative Sheep
and NerdOwl on xsibase.)

 

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No virus found in this incoming message..

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3385 - Release Date: 01/17/11 19:34:00

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

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