2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

[Marco Peixoto]

http://www.si-community.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3492

Link got deleted by AD request but in one of the posts there's a link to some wiki history

For one I cant believe this is all 2014 will get new... but on the other hand.... 

[James De Colling]

I doubt thats all there is, that list is more a bonus tools or service pack. hopefully the full list will get released soon.

uv packing...one thing ive wanted for quite some time....that said, it is the only thing in the current list that affects my daily workflow

[Stefan Andersson]

Before rants about how bad the situation is for Softimage I think this would be a good time for Autodesk to step in and say what we can expect.

I'm holding my breath for the moment :)

regards
stefan

--
Stefan Andersson | Digital Janitor

blog | showreel | twitter | LinkedIn | cell: +46-73-6268850 | skype:sanders3d

[Rob Wuijster]

Didn't that list do that for you?

Breath out now.

Rob Wuijster
E ro...@casema.nl

\/-------------\/----------------\/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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[Mirko Jankovic]

Still hoping that those empty pages for animation ice etc will be filled with more stuff.

If not... then outside SI guys made a lot more and better additions to Softimage than whole SI dev team that are actually paid to improve it.

So far from what we know this is not something that company's dev team would work on for year and how long?

Exocortex guys, Eric Mootz and others did a lot more for SI than dev team.. don't wanna miss other but list would go on and on for people that improved SI 

more than what we see in SI itself from dev team. 

Still could be early to rant but what did you expect when seeing this adding oil on fire :)

In all this time there wasn't a single sign that SI future is bright :)

[Eric Lampi]

Guys,

Don't you think it's better to just wait for the list to be released before getting too worked up over it?

--
Freelance 3D and VFX animator

http://vimeopro.com/user7979713/3d-work

[Francois Lord]

+1

[Doeke Wartena]

I would like if you can see the size of objects so it's easier to make models for 3d printing.

2013/3/14 Francois Lord <flord...@gmail.com>

[Mário Domingos]

This is an example of a proper software update. 

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2447&Itemid=360

Mário Domingos

www.mariodomingos.com

Sent from my super iPhone

[Emilio Hernandez]

Well that sure is something people using Houdini appreciate and we using AD products regret.   Perhaps updates are so Top Secret that AD doesn't want other software companies to see what's coming up...   More of the same.  In the meantime we can only hope that NEW IMPROVEMENTS  to Softimage are coming.  Something like now you can have in Maya the Softimage color scheme and vs., ...

But for some small things actually the way Softimage is now with the participation of Exocortex, Eric Mootz, and the other addons that are coming out, I think that there is not too much to improve...

2013/3/14 Mário Domingos <mdoming...@gmail.com>

--

[Mirko Jankovic]

I'm sure that if other companies see what AD have prepared for lunch in the next month or so, they (other companies) will rush in and implement same or better in a month or two!!!

I mean cmon who are we kidding :)

And on it is true that 3rd party people brought more improvement's to SI in the last coupl eyears than AD did.. so then just simple solution: stop paying subs price to AD and start paying guys that actually do improve Softimage :)

I bet that a lot of people would rather still stay on SI 2010 for example with fresh income of upgrades from Exocortex and rest of the crew. Mentioning Exocortex too much but it would  huge list to go over everyone we all know who are they and we are all thankful for keeping SI great... without them lets admit SI would be a lot lesser than it is now....

[Matt Lind]

WTF?  There are *plenty* of areas that need improvement in Softimage:

 

-          ASCII file format support for forward/backwards compatibility and external access for custom development

-          Realtime Shaders (High Quality Viewport) can use a complete rebuild as the current one is near useless.

-          Completion of NURBS curve and surface modeling SDK and tools

-          Support for topology generators in SDK outside of ICE

-          Multithreading support in UI and SDK.

-          Expansion of user interface SDK so we can things other than property pages.

-          Improvement to weight editing tools for assigning/reassigning weights to bones and different envelopes

-          Etc..

 

Maybe you don’t see the sore spots, but I certainly do.  The Softimage core is where a lot of work is needed as many systems are unfinished or not accessible which makes it very difficult to write custom tools or get performance needed to serve larger scale pipelines.  That’s why a lot of effort was put into ICE over the past few releases.  Unfortunately, some of the areas of great need weren’t touched, or not touched enough.

 

 

Matt

[Matt Lind]

WTF? (part 2)

 

I would definitely NOT want to stay on 2010.  Way too many blocking issues and bugs.  We just upgraded to 2013 SP1 from Softimage 7.5 as it was the first version since 7.5 which gave us the bare minimum feature set that didn’t have major issues – and even then I had to write a lot of custom code to work around known issues.  I’m still looking at newer releases as they come down the pipe as there are some pretty serious issues in 2013 SP1 that we cannot live with for long.  Hoping 2014 resolves them.

 

People are already complaining about lack of development of SI.  Customer base is what determines how many resources AD puts into the product.  If fewer customers pay for support, how much developer time do you think is going to be put into the product?  In other words, by not paying you are effectively killing the product.  Sure, 3^rd parties can supply some fancy plugins, but that will only continue as long as there are paying customers to support the product, and the 3^rd parties ability to support the product is dependent on their ability to get access to the necessary components to write their tools.  If AD doesn’t develop the core, the 3^rd parties cannot do their work.  One hand feeds the other.

 

 

Let’s think rationally for a change.

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mirko Jankovic
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:35 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

 

I'm sure that if other companies see what AD have prepared for lunch in the next month or so, they (other companies) will rush in and implement same or better in a month or two!!!

[Mirko Jankovic]

Yes let's think rationally...

What you are kinda saying is let's all be investors so then maybe AD will invest in development and all will be happy? Invest in something that so far shown really really slow progress...

You alone said that nothing between 7.5 and 2013 wasn't really worth of upgrade. What does that tell us?

Years and years developing and only now after couple of them you can update and |STILL you alone have to work around... 

ooooook? :)

[Greg Punchatz]

WTF part 3...... I agree with Matt for once!!

---

Greg Punchatz

Sr. Creative Director
Janimation
214.823.7760
www.janimation.com

[Mirko Jankovic]

btw Matt sry for small offtopic but LOVE the look of wildstar. Are there any making of docs or something around? And was it SI work or? 

Again sry for ot

[Simon van de Lagemaat]

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com> wrote:

If fewer customers pay for support, how much developer time do you think is going to be put into the product?  In other words, by not paying you are effectively killing the product. 

Wait, what? This is a chicken before the egg scenario.  Poor development precedes fewer paying customers almost all of the time.  There's no possible way in hell the end user can be blamed for anything here.  It's my companies money and my choice to decide where our money is spent and when there are better options they will be taken.  The only people to blame for dropped subscriptions are AD.  

Asking me to front cash for speculative development is insane especially given AD's track record over the last few releases.  It's on them to properly invest money into r'n'd and proper development.  If they aren't getting the cash flow from the customer then they need to ante up and get them interested again with a kick ass major revision.  This isn't kickstarter and AD isn't a small up and coming developer that needs an influx of cash to get going.

There are several existing and speculative products on the market right now that are grasping for my attention and AD does not have a single one of them.  I bear zero ill will towards Softimage or AD, I just make business decisions based on future trends and where I think a package will be in 3-5 years.

[Mirko Jankovic]

...and to add on Simon's post.. it is hard to even imagine where package will be if absolutely everything about it's roadmap is hidden completly.

it more looks like let's get as much as possible from subscription before they stop than having real plan about it at all.

[olivier jeannel]

100% Agree,
Reading you guys, it's like if everybody on the list was french :)

[Francois Lord]

I wouldn't expect many changes in the core since the development team has changed entirely.
From what I've heard, 3dsMax has the same problem. The core engineers have all left over time and the new team can only add new buttons. I suspect the same is happening for Softimage.

This is unfortunate, but very understandable.

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau]

Nostradamus knew.

[pet...@skynet.be]

> 100% Agree,
> Reading you guys, it's like if everybody on the list was french :)

 

Rob is becoming one fast.

He still has work on the cheese though.

 

Let’s get this thread off track because it’s going nowhere – is it that time of the month again?

“ let’s rant some about AD.”

“ everybody calm down, AD is not the devil”

 

Meanwhile I hope the DEV’s can concentrate on their jobs – and I hope even more that they are thinking:  “...wait till they see what we have up our sleeves.”

 

 

 

 

From: olivier jeannel

Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 8:41 PM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

 

[Andy Moorer]

I wouldn't let early leaked information set the tone for how I'll feel about the actual release, not when we'll find out the full "official" truth so soon anyway. (Shrug.)

AD, and the Softimage teams, should certainly understand that this is an industry where the rule is, "grow or die." If we don't see a reasonable attempt to keep up with the pace of competition, we're right to question, but I'm not going to flay them before even hearing the official change list.

[Matt Lind]

No and no.

 

Regardless of the product and the company, business is business.  If your company makes printed T-shirts and a particular T-shirt isn’t selling, chances are the company will stop manufacturing it.  It’s common sense.

 

Use that analogy on Softimage – if people stop buying it, why would AD continue development of it?  Duh.

 

As for upgrades, I never said there wasn’t anything worth the upgrade.  What I said is there were show stopping issues preventing our upgrade.  Very big difference between the two.  We wanted to upgrade because of the new features we needed (and requested), but bugs prevented us from making the move.

[Mirko Jankovic]

If T-shirts are great with good looking designs and quality materials and always putting out new series of designs people WILL keep buying it.

If you are trying to sell same shirt over and over again and each season offer a bit different color of same shirt then people will stop buying it.

simple as that following that analogy.

[Matt Lind]

If enough T-shirts don’t sell, the company will investigate as to why that is and make changes.  Companies don’t like spending and not seeing a return.

 

BUT, as a customer you shouldn’t withhold your money as first course of action.  You should be communicating your issues through proper channels to get them resolved.  If and only you’ve gone down all available channels and still without resolution should you withhold payment in the form of using a different product.  Withholding payment should be the last resort, not the first.

 

 

Matt

[Mirko Jankovic]

we are really moving away but... customers are complaining about latest couple series of t-shirts.. more than enough time to investigate and change ;)

[Simon van de Lagemaat]

How long do you think people should go before using the last resort?  One year?  Two?  Ten? I think AD has had a very long grace period since they bought Softimage and people have been patient enough.

They also aren't the only game in town, in fact they own some of the other games. 

[Matt Lind]

I wouldn’t go that far.

 

Sure, the entire team was changed, but to say they cannot make core changes implies the product cannot be further developed.  In which case, why make the dev team change at all?  Seems rather pointless to move development to an entirely different country and hire specialists for a short term maintenance project.  Who would want to be employed in that scenario knowing that was the case?  Not exactly job stability.

[Sebastien Sterling]

Looks like AD took down the link as well, but someone talked about being able to use weight maps in Syflex ice, which sounds good...

Ow and Mario +1

These days bonus tools in Maya have better offerings then official updates

[Alan Fregtman]

I think what Francois was probably trying to say (and what I would say) is it takes some time to truly understand the core of an enormous codebase like that of any DCC, and to expect core/architectural changes this early is probably too optimistic. I don't think one should jump to conclusions off a lack of considerable core changes in the first year. There's probably millions of lines of code from various eras and authors.

If this is it for 2014, I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt for this first release with the new team, and look with hopeful eyes at what 2015 might enhance or bring.

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

I totally agree with Alan, you can't expect a whole new team to be fully operational the first year on a software like SI.

AD's big mistake was that they didn't kept anyone form the previous one, they should have done this in two steps.

my 2 cents

-----------------------------------------------
Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos

2013/3/15 Alan Fregtman <alan.f...@gmail.com>

[Matt Lind]

They did do it in two steps.  That’s partly why the feature lists of the past few releases were larger.

[Ahmidou.xsi]

In three steps then, with one core dev working on site with the new team for 2014 to make the relay process smoother.

[Gustavo Eggert Boehs]

I remember the guys in the old Canada team saying that the current team was "trained" for 2 years before being let on their own... so, it was a two phase step... 

2013/3/14 Ahmidou Lyazidi <ahmid...@gmail.com>

--
Gustavo E Boehs
http://www.gustavoeb.com.br/blog

[Johan Forsgren]

I don't think this is a question of dev team. The same is true for Maya , not to the same extent but still the same.  The only real innovation has been wiewport 2.0, which granted is great but Im a motion graphics guy, while game devs might find it useful my use for it is fairly limited.  

I'm not saying there isn't good features in the updates, but they're hardly worth The cost of the subscription we have now. 

On Thursday, March 14, 2013, Alan Fregtman wrote:

I think what Francois was probably trying to say (and what I would say) is it takes some time to truly understand the core of an enormous codebase like that of any DCC, and to expect core/architectural changes this early is probably too optimistic. I don't think one should jump to conclusions off a lack of considerable core changes in the first year. There's probably millions of lines of code from various eras and authors.

If this is it for 2014, I for one will give them the benefit of the doubt for this first release with the new team, and look with hopeful eyes at what 2015 might enhance or bring.

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com> wrote:

I wouldn’t go that far.

 

Sure, the entire team was changed, but to say they cannot make core changes implies the product cannot be further developed.  In which case, why make the dev team change at all?  Seems rather pointless to move development to an entirely different country and hire specialists for a short term maintenance project.  Who would want to be employed in that scenario knowing that was the case?  Not exactly job stability.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Francois Lord
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:54 PM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

 

I wouldn't expect many changes in the core since the development team has changed entirely.
>From what I've heard, 3dsMax has the same problem. The core engineers have all left over time and the new team can only add new buttons. I suspect the same is happening for Softimage.

This is unfortunate, but very understandable.

On 14/03/2013 14:50, Matt Lind wrote:

WTF?  There are *plenty* of areas that need improvement in Softimage:

 

-          ASCII file format support for forward/backwards compatibility and external access for custom development

-          Realtime Shaders (High Quality Viewport) can use a complete rebuild as the current one is near useless.

--

JOHAN FORSGREN
CG ARTIST
Phone + 46 31 752 20 00	johan.f...@edithouse.se
Direct  + 46 31 752 20 07	Follow Edithouse at at twitter.com/edithouse

Edit house Film Works	www.edithouse.se
Lilla Bommen 4a, S-411 04 Göteborg, Sweden	www.twitter.com/edithouse

[Peter Agg]

Personally I'm fine with a version every now and then which just cleans up after itself, maybe just adding in one or two things on the side. I imagine the kinds of updates which get me excited are the kinds which send most other people to sleep. :)

But then I work at a large company, so have no need to justify a subscription cost or anything.

[Sam]

I didn't withhold my money for several lackluster releases. This year I decided I would wait for them to prove they had something worth upgrading to and so far it looks as if I will be keeping my money. The problem here is that the proper channels don’t seem to care. If they did, they wouldn't have moved most of the Softimage team to Maya.  

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lind

Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 1:54 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

[Sebastien Sterling]

What if they came out with a version with no new features... however they had fixed 75 % of all known bugs and issues known to the soft. would many people be interested in that ? a clean optimisation of what is already there, tightening down the screws as it where?

[James De Colling]

that would be a service pack no?

imo - new features - new major version number

bug fixes - SP / .5 at best

[Adam Seeley]

Hi,

Just wondering for those people who have a foot each in the AD camp & the Houdini camp..... are the Houdini crowd a bunch of happy campers or do they have the same amount of gripes?

Adam

 

----------------------

Freelance Softimage Generalist

http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=21162305

https://vimeo.com/album/2280465

---

From: Emilio Hernandez <emi...@e-roja.com>
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013, 18:24

Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

Well that sure is something people using Houdini appreciate and we using AD products regret.   Perhaps updates are so Top Secret that AD doesn't want other software companies to see what's coming up...   More of the same.  In the meantime we can only hope that NEW IMPROVEMENTS  to Softimage are coming.  Something like now you can have in Maya the Softimage color scheme and vs., ...

But for some small things actually the way Softimage is now with the participation of Exocortex, Eric Mootz, and the other addons that are coming out, I think that there is not too much to improve...

2013/3/14 Mário Domingos <mdoming...@gmail.com>

This is an example of a proper software update. 

http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2447&Itemid=360

Mário Domingos

www.mariodomingos.com

Sent from my super iPhone

On 14/03/2013, at 17:10, Doeke Wartena <clank...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like if you can see the size of objects so it's easier to make models for 3d printing.

2013/3/14 Francois Lord <flord...@gmail.com>

+1

On 14/03/2013 09:45, Eric Lampi wrote:

Guys,

Don't you think it's better to just wait for the list to be released before getting too worked up over it?

--

[Stefan Kubicek]

At least the latest "point release" looks good.
http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2445&Itemid=66

Complete new features list: http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2447&Itemid=360

Modo 701 has just been announced as well:
http://www.luxology.com/store/special_offers/

> Hi,
>
> Just wondering for those people who have a foot each in the AD camp & the Houdini camp..... are the Houdini crowd a bunch of happy campers or do they have the same amount of gripes?
>
> Adam
>
>
> ----------------------
> Freelance Softimage Generalist
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=21162305
>
> https://vimeo.com/album/2280465
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emilio Hernandez <emi...@e-roja.com>
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
> Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2013, 18:24
> Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide
>
> Well that sure is something people using Houdini appreciate and we using AD products regret. Perhaps updates are so Top Secret that AD doesn't want other software companies to see what's coming up... More of the same. In the meantime we can only hope that NEW IMPROVEMENTS to Softimage are coming. Something like now you can have in Maya the Softimage color scheme and vs., ...
>
> But for some small things actually the way Softimage is now with the participation of Exocortex, Eric Mootz, and the other addons that are coming out, I think that there is not too much to improve...
>
>
>
>

> 2013/3/14 Mï¿œrio Domingos <mdoming...@gmail.com>

>
> This is an example of a proper software update.
>>
>>
>> http://www.sidefx.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2447&Itemid=360
>>
>>

>> Mï¿œrio Domingos

>>
>>
>> www.mariodomingos.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my super iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14/03/2013, at 17:10, Doeke Wartena <clank...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I would like if you can see the size of objects so it's easier to make models for 3d printing.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/3/14 Francois Lord <flord...@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14/03/2013 09:45, Eric Lampi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't you think it's better to just wait for the list to be released before getting too worked up over it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
>

--
-------------------------------------------
Stefan Kubicek
-------------------------------------------
keyvis digital imagery
Alfred Feierfeilstraï¿œe 3
A-2380 Perchtoldsdorf bei Wien
Phone: +43/699/12614231
www.keyvis.at ste...@keyvis.at
-- This email and its attachments are --
--confidential and for the recipient only--

[Ciaran Moloney]

I don't think it's all sweetness and light in Houdini land. It's a bug-fest just like all of these other software. And just like everybody else, users get cranky about bugs or features that have been on the list for years. Clearly there's way more positivity to every release than most every other DCC, reflecting that development has its priorities straight. So yeah, they definitely have less gripes - they get daily builds FFS! (and to be fair they pay for it...)

Ciaran

[Rob Chapman]

but is really hard to use if one is of simple mind (like myself) and so used to Softimage workflow,  nodes are executed when not even connected, just floating!  I really cannot handle POP CHOP SOP VOX POP HOT WOT? terminology as well as you breathe too heavily nearby then you have 17 gb of datas that you did not ask for.

grass is not always greener etc. 

:)

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau]

I don’t think Houdini could replace a software like Softimage, parts of it surely can but not all of it.

 

Modo might be more of a contender. Modo 701 is interesting albeit not the revolution we are expecting from the new merge of Modo and The Foundry.

Modo is pretty powerful for its young age. It has some rough spots but it will come.

[Mirko Jankovic]

let's be honest.. NOTHING so far can replace Softimage and it's workflow.... it is not only tools and parts in it it is workflow as a whole so... even if they put in maya everything SI have it still won't be SI so...

[Matt Lind]

Wildstar is not a released product, so no behind the scenes stuff yet.   

 

The official wildstar website is here: http://www.wildstar-online.com

Our studio website is here: http://www.carbinestudios.com

 

If you hunt around the web you’ll find various pages devoted to the product such as Facebook, MySpace, Google+, etc…

 

 

Softimage is used for most 3D artwork that goes into the game with exception of terrain (internal tools) and character modeling/texturing (Modo).

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mirko Jankovic
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2013 12:11 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: 2014 New feature list... minor corrections list... you decide

 

btw Matt sry for small offtopic but LOVE the look of wildstar. Are there any making of docs or something around? And was it SI work or? 

Again sry for ot

 

[Sam]

We shouldn't have to pay for bug fixes. Honestly, for what I do I don't run into that many bugs. Compared to just about anything on a mac nowadays, SI is rock solid.

[Sam]

Modo has most of the same problems lightwave has, including a horrid UI (especially the texture editor) and terrible character animation tools. You would think they would bring someone in who knows about this stuff instead of leaving it to the people who made the mess of lightwave in the first place, but I guess when they are running the company pride gets in the way.

[Octavian Ureche]

I couldn't help noticing one of the main features on that 2014 list:
"Realigned Help Menu".
This has to be a joke. Otherwise, it's beyond what words can describe.

Seriously, is that one of the features after 1 year of development?

[Andy Moorer]

Wildstar looks great, and like it was a really fun project. Kudos Matt can't wait to see more.

I value bug fixes and incremental improvements, and won't be heartbroken if the release focuses on this area.

What I'll be looking for will be whether there is a reasonable and competitive pace of development/improvement, and what indications there are that there is some reasoned, strategic thinking behind the release. 

If Softimage has chosen a plan of attack which puts a priority on fixes and incremental improvements, ok cool enough for now. Particularly if we see continuing efforts to follow through on unrealized potentials of previous initiatives.

But I would also want to have some reassurance at some point that the innovation which has gotten Softimage to this point has not been abandoned. The community has understandable anxiety and will need to see that AD has allowed for more than merely treading water.