Re: Should our government require tracking GPS in all private vehicles?
Stoneman
> Seems the Dutch are getting ready to track their motoring public for the
> purpose of taxing people by the mile. I'm wondering if automatic GPS
> generated speeding tickets can be that far behind.
>
> How far will the enviro-nazis go in the name of global warming?
>
> http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.244057bd1b30448115575c218...
>
> -----------------
> Netherlands to levy 'green' road tax by the kilometre
> Nov 13 04:20 PM
>
> The Dutch government said Friday it wants to introduce a "green" road tax
> by the kilometre from 2012 aimed at cutting carbon dioxide emissions by
> 10 percent and halving congestion.
>
> "Each vehicle will be equipped with a GPS device that tracks how many
> kilometres are driven and when and where. This data will be then be sent to
> a collection agency that will send out the bill," the transport ministry said
> in a statement. ...
> ----------------
>
> See link above for the whole article.
Good thing I won't be moving there any time soon. The UK has a similar
tax - congestion tax - if you go into downtown London you'll have to
pay quite a bit of money to park there. Just ridiculous, really. We're
turning into a big brother society sooner than you think.
homepc
"S. Cargo" <sca...@muxxnet.com> wrote in message
news:_NWdnZOrUq5iZmDX...@supernews.com...
>
> Seems the Dutch are getting ready to track their motoring public for the
> purpose of taxing people by the mile. I'm wondering if automatic GPS
> generated speeding tickets can be that far behind.
>
> How far will the enviro-nazis go in the name of global warming?
>
>
> -----------------
> Netherlands to levy 'green' road tax by the kilometre
> Nov 13 04:20 PM
>
> The Dutch government said Friday it wants to introduce a "green" road tax
> by the kilometre from 2012 aimed at cutting carbon dioxide emissions by
> 10 percent and halving congestion.
>
> "Each vehicle will be equipped with a GPS device that tracks how many
> kilometres are driven and when and where. This data will be then be sent
> to
> a collection agency that will send out the bill," the transport ministry
> said
> in a statement. ...
> ----------------
>
> See link above for the whole article.
With a such a high population density, I can understand why the Dutch
government wants to discourage vehicle use.
Our countries are so different in terms of population density, size and
climate. What might work out very well for them, would probably have
little value for us here in Canada. I don't think we have to worry about a
mandatory big brother GPS tracking device anytime soon.
That being said, a while back an Ontario insurance company was offering a
discount on auto insurance if volunteers would accept using an installed
tracking device in their car for a test period.
This would probably make a lot of people think of 1984. However for some
older people like me who only drive on their days off to run errands during
off peak hours, there could possibly be a substantial saving in car
insurance costs while others who spend a lot more time on the road will
ultimately have to pay more for the privilege. Bottom line here is there
should be strong and clear legislation in place to protect user
confidentiality and ensure information gathered in these data collection
devices is never used for purposes other than what they were originally
designed for -- just like our medical records.
Diane Gall
> I've *never* considered myself a libertarian until I started seeing what is
> 'required' to combat climate change. It's going to happen here soon and many
> people just don't understand that there is a LOT more to it than using curly
> bulbs. insulating the attic, and trading the SUV in for a 4 cylinder car.
>
> This is a great time in history for governments who want to exercise tight
> control over their populations. (For the good of the planet of course).
If the climate change scientists are right (let us suppose), and we
fail to do what is required to avoid massive global repercussions, how
will future generations judge us? Do we even care?
That having been wondered, just what kind of libertarian did all that
you started seeing cause you to consider yourself?
Di
homepc
> Opus- wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:39:00 -0600, "S. Cargo" <sca...@muxxnet.com>
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>>
>>>Seems the Dutch are getting ready to track their motoring public for the
>>>purpose of taxing people by the mile.
>>
>>
>> It's pretty easy to block a GPS signal.
>
> That's true... One could put a piece of foil over the antenna before
> going to work, and then remove it when they got home. That would make
> it appear the vehicle never moved.
>
> But, without enforcement, laws are meaningless. There would probably
> some body created to watch the public and make sure they don't do these
> things.
>
>> But this is how it all starts. The term "enviro-nazi" is an honest
>> one. The fascists all start out sounding good. It's all for the
>> greater good, they say. We all have to give a little, they say. But
>> harsher actions may be required, they say. And we accept it, because
>> it's for the "greater good".
>
> Yes.. I see also that the British government wants to issue 'carbon
> cards' so
> they can track the carbon use of each individual citizen and 'punish' them
> if
> they use too much.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ygvd46d
>
> I've *never* considered myself a libertarian until I started seeing what
> is
> 'required' to combat climate change. It's going to happen here soon and
> many
> people just don't understand that there is a LOT more to it than using
> curly
> bulbs. insulating the attic, and trading the SUV in for a 4 cylinder car.
>
> This is a great time in history for governments who want to exercise tight
> control over their populations. (For the good of the planet of course).
Britain is another country just like Netherlands where it's much warmer and
the population density is far greater than in Canada. Our country is colder
and the population is spread out. We can't help but to use more fuel to
live here. To impose identical taxation and restrictions here would burden
our economy at the worst time. Using the carrot approach by offering huge
discounts on bus passes and home improvements would be met by a lot less
resistance and produce the same desired effect.
Since the government offered tax credits for bus passes, transit ridership
has increased a great deal. High gas prices probably had something to do
with it too, but the tax break helped steer commuters in the right
direction without the threat of another tax that would cost more money to
implement.
That Canadian Kid
> That being said, a while back an Ontario insurance company was
> offering a discount on auto insurance if volunteers would accept using
> an installed tracking device in their car for a test period.
>
> http://www.piurl.com/p/1x_M
>
> This would probably make a lot of people think of 1984. However for
> some older people like me who only drive on their days off to run
> errands during off peak hours, there could possibly be a substantial
> saving in car insurance costs while others who spend a lot more time
> on the road will ultimately have to pay more for the privilege.
> Bottom line here is there should be strong and clear legislation in
> place to protect user confidentiality and ensure information gathered
> in these data collection devices is never used for purposes other than
> what they were originally designed for -- just like our medical
> records.
Well the fact that you may use your car less doesn't necessarilly mean you
should get a discount. Usually people who use their vehicles less, such as
one or two days a week and only for a few Km, don't make for very good
drivers and are a high risk to cause accidents.
That Canadian Kid
> Britain is another country just like Netherlands where it's much
> warmer and the population density is far greater than in Canada. Our
> country is colder and the population is spread out. We can't help but
> to use more fuel to live here. To impose identical taxation and
> restrictions here would burden our economy at the worst time. Using
> the carrot approach by offering huge discounts on bus passes and home
> improvements would be met by a lot less resistance and produce the
> same desired effect.
>
> Since the government offered tax credits for bus passes, transit
> ridership has increased a great deal. High gas prices probably had
> something to do with it too, but the tax break helped steer commuters
> in the right direction without the threat of another tax that would
> cost more money to implement.
Comparing Canada to any one particular European Country is like
comparing Apples to Oranges, it just doesn't work.
But this thread is vocusing on tracking vehicle use instead of trying to
force our government to work for us instead of tracking us.
The reason this is thought up is simple, it is cheaper to track us than
to make a serious conserted effort to answer the problem.
We are colder here and many of us life much farther from work than in
England or Denmark etc.
Many Canadian cities have poor mass transit and many don't have a
subway.
We have a quality of life here we have come to expect and earned and
also defended by our fathers and their fathers.
One solution or an attempt at a solution is the Venus Project.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/
http://www.venusproject.ca/
At the moment we have many techonolgies that can help us, we have wind
power, solar power and electric cars.
Trouble with all this, is expense to the average person. For me to put
up a wind turbine that would actually start to benefit me would cost
about $23,000 and that wont take me off the grid, just supplement my
power consuption. Solar costs about $1 a watt, so there is a high
expense. An electric car that can go approx 350 miles on one charge and
travel at a top speed of 150 mph but these cars cost over $100,000. Can
you see the trend, anything that will truly benefit us is priced for the
elite and the government is doing nothing to help the average person
move toward the future.
Also, one other tid bit to think about, solar cells will only recharge
so often and then they are garbage and they are not biodegradable, so
what do you do with them when they are finished, the same with the
batteries for the cars, etc...
That Canadian Kid
<snip>
> There are many pressing matters that confront modern society. One
> example would be, AIDS. It spreads misery and death to millions
> around the world every year.
>
> If governments cared, they would ban all the activities that allowed
> the propagation of the aids virus. (Things like casual sex and
> intervenous drug use). It seems this would curtail or eliminate the
> disease.
>
> In practice, this is not done. Only factions like the crazy religious
> right and the Sharia Muslim want to encourage strict laws and
> penalties pertaining to morality.
>
> What do we tell the child of a prostitute that is born with AIDS?
> What was done to protect that child? Is the government responsible
> for failing to act? How will that child judge society.
>
> My answer to these matters is that we educate the public and allow
> them to do what they see fit. If a person wants to spend $20,000 to
> take their house off the grid and go 100% wind/solar, then good for
> them. If they want to trade their SUV in for a golf cart that runs on
> fermenting chicken droppings, then I respect their decision.
Education is definitely needed especially with you, in order to get off
the grid all together you will need to spend more like $50,000.
> If a person wants to have sex with over a thousand women and wind up
> with AIDS (like basketball star Magic Johnson did), I won't condemn
> him. I will feel sorrow, but I also won't accept any responsibility
> for his predicament.
Another Bayomi wannabe who thinks that aids is only contracted from
having sex or using dirty needles, I feel sorry for your kids education.
> We will adapt to our changing climate just like we seem to adapt to
> every other malady that mankind seems to want to impose on itself in
> the interest of personal pleasure. If we spend enough, we may cure
> AIDS one day so that it will no longer be a scourge on society. If
> we spend enough, we can also mitigate the results of global warming,
> be it man made or not.
We will adapt when we learn to research our alternatives and educate
ourselves and the true facts and quit being judgemental. As a society we
as a whole are more responsible for our fellow man that you would like
to believe. If you want to live in the bush, hunt for you food, create
your own mass transit so be it but don't expect to live in a society of
600,000+ people and not take some responsibility, after all we pay for
your kids education even if we don't have kids.
Diane Gall
< snip >
That was all very nice, but no answer to either question I asked.
Thanks anyway.
Di
dick blisters
"That Canadian Kid" <Th...@Canadian.Kid> wrote in message
news:Xns9CC497E88C06...@69.16.185.252...
agenda?
That Canadian Kid
news:hdqnh0$bm6$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
I suggest you look up SGI and MPI sitesas well as many other insurance
sites.
But I am sure that the fact that graduated licencing is in place in most
provinces had no effect on your or your reaction to my posts.
Graduated Lic = New Driver = Restrictions = Because of no experience
which equal no experience = no driving
I am sure you intend to suggest that an old driver has plenty of
experience, the trouble with that is unless (like anything else) the
experienced is used then you loose that experience.
This is all pretty much basic stuff, first level statistics, first year
university stuff, sorry if I posted over your level of comprehension.
BTW I would never purposely make fun of someones name but I wonder why
someone would purposely use an offensive name instead of his given name.
Seems to me you are looking for abouse.
homepc
"That Canadian Kid" <Th...@Canadian.Kid> wrote in message
news:Xns9CC497E88C06...@69.16.185.252...
In some cases that maybe true. However, once an auto accident has happened,
any person found at fault will see their rates automatically increase
anyway, regardless of any discounts they may have had.
Most older drivers tend to be cautious and are more aware of their
limitations due to age and increased reaction time. Avoiding driving during
rush hour and unsafe weather conditions should be habits that are rewarded.
Those who must routinely drive during rush hour and in all kinds of weather
( including stormy or icy conditions ) are obviously in a higher risk
category, and should therefore pay more for their insurance.
That Canadian Kid
news:hdsg3h$d9s$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
Well with that attitude I can safely assume you agree that most people
under 25 should pay more for insurance, as well those who have children
between 16 and 20 driving their vehicles should pay higher insurance.
It has already been studied that older drivers are not any worse than
anyone else but they are slower to do things such as make left hand
turns, which may make it more dangerous for on coming traffic.
My idea for a better driver no matter what the age is mandatory road
tests every 3 years for everyone that holds a valid drivers lic. And if
you fail the manditory test doesn't necessarily mean you would loose
your lic but that you may have to tak manditory driver ed.
Younger drivers and older drivers are major causes of accidents, whether
they are simply more cautious or not experienced enough they still do
not follow the rules of the road effectively enough. Today for instance,
there was an older driver making a left hand turn in front of me, he was
in the left hand turning lane as well as the driving lane and was
sitting there with no idea how to correct his mistake, yet held up
traffic. He was forcing cars to go around him therefore creating an
accident situation.
This is more common than you may thing.
T.N.Johns
news:08c16ab6-cc1c-41e5...@w37g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
Hmmmmmmmm do you really think he is a libertarian. Do you think he is a
minarchist or anarchist or somewhere inbetween?
Diane Gall
I am pretty sure he doesn't have a clue, but what do I know?
Di
homepc
"That Canadian Kid" <Th...@Canadian.Kid> wrote in message
I haven't heard of any old folks flipping Jeeps filled over capacity with
their old rowdy pals while yakking on a cell phone trying to decide which
lane to drive in on their way to Mickey D's lately.
I do remember reading something about a few minor fender benders that
happened during our 1st little bit of snow about a month ago.
But being the old fart that I am, I wanted to stay home that day and miss
out on all the action. Go figure....
Diane Gall
> "That Canadian Kid" <T...@Canadian.Kid> wrote in messagenews:Xns9CC5C41197CB...@69.16.185.252...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "homepc" <wiebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >news:hdsg3h$d9s$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >> "That Canadian Kid" <T...@Canadian.Kid> wrote in message
Well, no. But how about driving through 3 blocks of a Farmer's Market
killing 10 people?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/17/farmers.market.crash/index.html
Di
homepc
"Diane Gall" <diane....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bb7f339-bf91-4810...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/07/17/farmers.market.crash/index.html
Di
And a few summers back a young guy drove into a crowd lined up in front of a
Winnipeg night club. You can't predict when these kind of time bombs will
go off -- fortunately occurrences like these are an aberration rather than a
rule.
Remember I wrote that most older drivers tend to be cautious? Well, there
will always be some people at any age who believe it is their god given
right to drive on the road, and refuse to acknowledge just how dangerous
their driving is to others around them, or know when it's time to hang up
their car keys.
That Canadian Kid
news:he1g4i$hg5$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> "Diane Gall" <diane....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3bb7f339-bf91-4810-ab44-
89241d...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com.
Cautious as in driving 20 in a 50 or 60 in 100. Or as in taking 10 min
to make a left hand turn when the on coming traffic is 3 blocks away. As
I said earlier, they cause more accidents that they are in and continue
to drive away.
Cautious is really a code name for I forget where I am going or why I am
on the road anymore.
If everyone and I mean everyone with a valid lic had to be retested
every 3 years a lot of bad drivers would be weeded out.
Take a look at the last sentence in the first paragraph:
http://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-and-safety-guideline/older-drivers-
elderly-driving-seniors-at-the-wheel.html
At least I believe you can still read and comprehend what is being said
in the article.