I just was looking at the announcement of the "Nook", the new ebook reader from Barns & Noble. It has a couple of interesting features but basically seems to be a "me-too" product. It costs $258 and uses E-Ink technology for its main display. It has a second strip display at the bottom that is full color that bsically shows book covers apparently so you can select books to downlaod and read.
* 2 GB of internal memory, but it also has a micro-SD slot to allow you to add memory cards.
* It has audio and can play recorded books and music (MP3) (I guess so you can listen to music while you read.) No idea how its audio controls work, and it does not seem to support iTunes.
* It also supports lending -- the ad says most ebooks can be lent to friends for up to 14 days. That is novel.
* It also says it supports making notes and bookmarking in books, although it does not seem to have a keyboard of any kind, so I am unsure of how you write a note.
* IT supports the EPUB, eReader (remember, B&N owns eReader and Fictionwise), and PDF standards (at least it says that PDFs are "easily displayed).
* Long life battery (the ad says rather vaguely that you can "read for days").
* It looks nice and seems to be a nice size, although that is hard to judge in a photo.
What it doesn't have:
* Color display -- don't plan on using it for books or business PDFs with color graphics.
* Backlight -- This lack of a backlight, which I often use when reading on my UX, is actually described as a "feature". I found that interesting.
* Support for other ebook formats.
So essentially you can pay $260 for this (you can buy a lot of books for $260) and get one book free with it, and read your books on a gray scale screen with no backlight, or you can read most of the same books from eReader on any of a list of smart phones and other handhelds including the iPhone/Touch and both Mac and Windows portables, that you are using anyway. The long battery life is nice. I do occasionally read until my battery is close to dying on the UX (but then I just get the power cord out and plug it in by my recliner and continue reading). But otherwise this does not convince me. I see it as an expensive extra gadget that I have to carry around with me.
I really wonder how many of the people who bought the Kindle actually use it regularly and how many have long since relegated it to the back of a closet somewhere. For that matter, I wonder how many people actually have purchased the Kindle at all. Amazon isn't saying.
All the best,
-- Bert Latamore IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor From tweets and blogs to white papers and books -- You provide the information; I craft the words.
I've been using a Sony 505 for the last year for most of my reading (going back and forth between that and my phone) so the idea of having my e-ink reader be capable of reading all of my eReader content plus still have epub support and get the added 3G, I'm sold.
I love my ebooks on phones, but it's the Sony device that gets the most use on the train in the morning and on trips.
Using e-ink in direct sunlight in the summer is fantastic. No more hiding in the shaded area to read.
Dedicated readers aren't for everyone, but I sure love 'em.
Bert Latamore wrote:
> I just was looking at the announcement of the "Nook", the new ebook > reader from Barns & Noble. It has a couple of interesting features but > basically seems to be a "me-too" product.
> It costs $258 and uses E-Ink technology for its main display. It has a > second strip display at the bottom that is full color that bsically > shows book covers apparently so you can select books to downlaod and read.
> * 2 GB of internal memory, but it also has a micro-SD slot to allow you > to add memory cards.
> * It has audio and can play recorded books and music (MP3) (I guess so > you can listen to music while you read.) No idea how its audio controls > work, and it does not seem to support iTunes.
> * It also supports lending -- the ad says most ebooks can be lent to > friends for up to 14 days. That is novel.
> * It also says it supports making notes and bookmarking in books, > although it does not seem to have a keyboard of any kind, so I am unsure > of how you write a note.
> * IT supports the EPUB, eReader (remember, B&N owns eReader and > Fictionwise), and PDF standards (at least it says that PDFs are "easily > displayed).
> * Long life battery (the ad says rather vaguely that you can "read for > days").
> * It looks nice and seems to be a nice size, although that is hard to > judge in a photo.
> What it doesn't have:
> * Color display -- don't plan on using it for books or business PDFs > with color graphics.
> * Backlight -- This lack of a backlight, which I often use when reading > on my UX, is actually described as a "feature". I found that interesting.
> * Support for other ebook formats.
> So essentially you can pay $260 for this (you can buy a lot of books for > $260) and get one book free with it, and read your books on a gray scale > screen with no backlight, or you can read most of the same books from > eReader on any of a list of smart phones and other handhelds including > the iPhone/Touch and both Mac and Windows portables, that you are using > anyway. The long battery life is nice. I do occasionally read until my > battery is close to dying on the UX (but then I just get the power cord > out and plug it in by my recliner and continue reading). But otherwise > this does not convince me. I see it as an expensive extra gadget that I > have to carry around with me.
> I really wonder how many of the people who bought the Kindle actually > use it regularly and how many have long since relegated it to the back > of a closet somewhere. For that matter, I wonder how many people > actually have purchased the Kindle at all. Amazon isn't saying.
> All the best,
> -- > Bert Latamore
> IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> You provide the information; I craft the words.
An e-ink display which does not rely on backlight is indeed a feature. I have ereader software for my VGA Pocket PC, my iPod Touch, my Sony Clié and my various laptops, and none of them come close to the e-ink display on my Sony Reader when outdoors, or for that matter anywhere near a lightsource. The clarity of an e-ink display is quite different from that of an LCD. Some people don't like it, but I see sharpness (or lack thereof) very well, and no LCD is even remotely as sharp as e-ink.
Thus, my Sony Reader gets much more mileage than any of my other devices, despite being yet another thing to lug around. It's well worth it, for the screen and battery life.
I on the other hand do almost all of my reading indoors, although on a good
afternoon I might sit on the porch or deck and read. I find a backlight very
helpful, particularly since the lights around the house are not always
positioned optimally for shining on a page. It also helps when reading in a
moving vehicle. I am partial to motion sickness, which is brought on partly
by sudden variations in light when I am trying to read. The backlight
overpowers those and makes it easier for me to read when traveling (and not
driving, obviously. Then I listen to podcasts).
Bert
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:43 AM, Jesper Anderson <jes...@pobox.com> wrote:
> An e-ink display which does not rely on backlight is indeed a feature.
> I have ereader software for my VGA Pocket PC, my iPod Touch, my Sony
> Clié and my various laptops, and none of them come close to the e-ink
> display on my Sony Reader when outdoors, or for that matter anywhere
> near a lightsource. The clarity of an e-ink display is quite different
> from that of an LCD. Some people don't like it, but I see sharpness
> (or lack thereof) very well, and no LCD is even remotely as sharp as
> e-ink.
> Thus, my Sony Reader gets much more mileage than any of my other
> devices, despite being yet another thing to lug around. It's well
> worth it, for the screen and battery life.
> Jesper
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
> I just was looking at the announcement of the "Nook", the new ebook reader
> from Barns & Noble. It has a couple of interesting features but basically
> seems to be a "me-too" product.
> It costs $258 and uses E-Ink technology for its main display. It has a
> second strip display at the bottom that is full color that bsically shows
> book covers apparently so you can select books to downlaod and read.
> * 2 GB of internal memory, but it also has a micro-SD slot to allow you to
> add memory cards.
> * It has audio and can play recorded books and music (MP3) (I guess so you
> can listen to music while you read.) No idea how its audio controls work,
> and it does not seem to support iTunes.
> * It also supports lending -- the ad says most ebooks can be lent to
> friends for up to 14 days. That is novel.
> * It also says it supports making notes and bookmarking in books, although
> it does not seem to have a keyboard of any kind, so I am unsure of how you
> write a note.
> * IT supports the EPUB, eReader (remember, B&N owns eReader and
> Fictionwise), and PDF standards (at least it says that PDFs are "easily
> displayed).
> * Long life battery (the ad says rather vaguely that you can "read for
> days").
> * It looks nice and seems to be a nice size, although that is hard to judge
> in a photo.
> What it doesn't have:
> * Color display -- don't plan on using it for books or business PDFs with
> color graphics.
> * Backlight -- This lack of a backlight, which I often use when reading on
> my UX, is actually described as a "feature". I found that interesting.
> * Support for other ebook formats.
> So essentially you can pay $260 for this (you can buy a lot of books for
> $260) and get one book free with it, and read your books on a gray scale
> screen with no backlight, or you can read most of the same books from
> eReader on any of a list of smart phones and other handhelds including the
> iPhone/Touch and both Mac and Windows portables, that you are using anyway.
> The long battery life is nice. I do occasionally read until my battery is
> close to dying on the UX (but then I just get the power cord out and plug it
> in by my recliner and continue reading). But otherwise this does not
> convince me. I see it as an expensive extra gadget that I have to carry
> around with me.
> I really wonder how many of the people who bought the Kindle actually use
> it regularly and how many have long since relegated it to the back of a
> closet somewhere. For that matter, I wonder how many people actually have
> purchased the Kindle at all. Amazon isn't saying.
> All the best,
> --
> Bert Latamore
> IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> You provide the information; I craft the words.
-- Richard D. Cartwright
P.O. Box 1144
Hixson, TN 37343
901-493-6612
__________________________________
If Dante had known about daytime television the Ninth Circle of Hell would
have TV sets.
Bert, I can't understand why you think a dedicated ereading device
like the Sony or the Kindle is going to be put to rest in a closet
somewhere. Everyone I know who has one - we have three in my family -
uses it regularly. I see people on buses, subways, trains using them.
And I have mine with me almost all the time. I read the NYTimes and
the New Yorker on my Kindle and find that easier because I don't have
to hold something larger and in need of folding. I still am not clear
on whether you have ever used one but I am willing to bet that, if you
did, you would prefer the experience to reading on a backlit screen.
Try one and see, and then let us know.
Richard you can buy that $260 worth of books but remember that with a
Sony or a Kindle, you can download tons of out of copyright material
absolutely free.
Philippe> Richard you can buy that $260 worth of books but Philippe> remember that with a Sony or a Kindle, you can download Philippe> tons of out of copyright material absolutely free.
The out of copyright material is the easy part. You can download that onto any device that has enough memory.
...in Calormen, story-telling (whether the stories are true or made up) is a thing you're taught, just as English boys and girls are taught essay-writing. The difference is that people want to hear the stories, whereas I never heard of anyone who wanted to read the essays.
I pre-ordered mine last night, too. I'm not typically an early adopter, I like to wait until a device has at least a revision before I buy in nowadays. This, though, is what I've been wanting for years. When I bought my Sony 505 two years ago I was sad that I couldn't use my eReader books, or have a built-in dictionary or hilight text like I had on my PDAs, but the tradeoff is worth it. Now that I can have a device that will be compatible with my dozens of eReader books and won't be a compromise on features, I'm sold. I was tempted to get the Sony 600 when it came out a couple of months ago, to get the dictionary and hilighting back, but the loss of contrast was a dealbreaker. When I saw the nook it was a facepalm moment. Why hadn't anybody else figured out that a contextual menu system is the smartest way to deal with an e-ink reader? Dedicated buttons mean you end up with a monster like the Kindle or sacrifice features like the Sony. Touchscreens are nice in concept, but e-ink refreshes slowly, making any menu selection or browsing process a little tedious. And using a traditional touchscreen means losing contrast, since you have to add a layer above the the e-ink. I-Rex got around this by using a wacom layer under the e-ink, but that forces you to use a dedicated pen for input. No fingers allowed. I think B&N has been watching the field very closely here, and waited until they came up with just the right design before jumping in.
This is going to be a very difficult six weeks, waiting for my nook to arrive.
- Kerry
On Oct 21, 2009, at 05:41 , Aaron F. Gonzalez wrote:
> I've been using a Sony 505 for the last year for most of my reading > (going back and forth between that and my phone) so the idea of having > my e-ink reader be capable of reading all of my eReader content plus > still have epub support and get the added 3G, I'm sold.
> I love my ebooks on phones, but it's the Sony device that gets the > most > use on the train in the morning and on trips.
> Using e-ink in direct sunlight in the summer is fantastic. No more > hiding in the shaded area to read.
> Dedicated readers aren't for everyone, but I sure love 'em.
Just a thought; I wonder if the touch screen at the bottom can be
programmed to display footnotes and annotations? That might open up
some interesting extensions for ebooks. (This is merely a desire on my
part; I haven't found any such reference or inference in all the press
release and faqs I came across.) mcc
Since the device runs android my guess is that B&N will be able to very easily add features down the road. The lower screen can be used to enter notes for the book, so it doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine using it to display footnotes, etc. Also, thanks to android, this may be a device that's easy to hack and add homebrew features.
Man Ching Cheung wrote:
> Just a thought; I wonder if the touch screen at the bottom can be
> programmed to display footnotes and annotations? That might open up
> some interesting extensions for ebooks. (This is merely a desire on my
> part; I haven't found any such reference or inference in all the press
> release and faqs I came across.) mcc
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Donald Stidwell
> <donald.stidw...@mac.com> wrote:
>> More info on Nook. It will read eReader/Fictionwise books but they have to
>> be transferred via USB: http://bit.ly/2ajN9Q
Kerry,
That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is eInk, which
is specifically designed for reading material. It is not generally
considered adequate for general computer displays because it lacks the
graphic ability and color display.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since the device runs android my guess is that B&N will be able to very
> easily add features down the road. The lower screen can be used to enter
> notes for the book, so it doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine using
> it to display footnotes, etc. Also, thanks to android, this may be a
> device that's easy to hack and add homebrew features.
> Man Ching Cheung wrote:
> > Just a thought; I wonder if the touch screen at the bottom can be
> > programmed to display footnotes and annotations? That might open up
> > some interesting extensions for ebooks. (This is merely a desire on my
> > part; I haven't found any such reference or inference in all the press
> > release and faqs I came across.) mcc
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Donald Stidwell
> > <donald.stidw...@mac.com> wrote:
> >> More info on Nook. It will read eReader/Fictionwise books but they have
> to
> >> be transferred via USB: http://bit.ly/2ajN9Q
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have been hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I suspect the lower screen combined with android might make for some very interesting uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all the browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used for displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom screen for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I could probably have a field day with this setup.
> That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is eInk, > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not generally > considered adequate for general computer displays because it lacks the > graphic ability and color display.
I suppose we'll see how useful the bottom color display bar is for
displaying text and providing a soft-keyboard for users. I know it's
nice to have extensibility, but there are some things that should be
available out of the box. It's like all these engineers are designing
an electronic replacement for a book rather than an ebook reader ;)
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Kerry,
> That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is eInk, which
> is specifically designed for reading material. It is not generally
> considered adequate for general computer displays because it lacks the
> graphic ability and color display.
> Bert
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Since the device runs android my guess is that B&N will be able to very
>> easily add features down the road. The lower screen can be used to enter
>> notes for the book, so it doesn't seem like a stretch to imagine using
>> it to display footnotes, etc. Also, thanks to android, this may be a
>> device that's easy to hack and add homebrew features.
>> Man Ching Cheung wrote:
>> > Just a thought; I wonder if the touch screen at the bottom can be
>> > programmed to display footnotes and annotations? That might open up
>> > some interesting extensions for ebooks. (This is merely a desire on my
>> > part; I haven't found any such reference or inference in all the press
>> > release and faqs I came across.) mcc
>> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Donald Stidwell
>> > <donald.stidw...@mac.com> wrote:
>> >> More info on Nook. It will read eReader/Fictionwise books but they have
>> >> to
>> >> be transferred via USB: http://bit.ly/2ajN9Q
> --
> Bert Latamore
> IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> You provide the information; I craft the words.
But how large is that lower screen? It looks pretty narrow to me in the
photos. I think it would be pretty hard to read, say Pimlical or Quicken (to
name two applications I use constantly) in that screen.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have been
> hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I suspect the
> lower screen combined with android might make for some very interesting
> uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower
> screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all the
> browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used for
> displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom screen
> for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I could
> probably have a field day with this setup.
> Bert Latamore wrote:
> > Kerry,
> > That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is eInk,
> > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not generally
> > considered adequate for general computer displays because it lacks the
> > graphic ability and color display.
> > Bert
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
It's a 3.5" display, which puts the area at roughly the same as an iPhone. I can't find the pixel dimensions, though, so I have no idea how high the resolution is. At least 72dpi, hopefully much higher.
Sure, you wouldn't want to view a whole month of a calendar on it, but you could do a pretty nice graphical week view, and most certainly scroll through a list view. You could view a static month calendar on the e-ink screen and use the lower screen for event details and add/edit. Same thing for Quicken, you could use the upper screen to view a list of transactions and then use the lower screen to add/edit transactions or view trends.
Bert Latamore wrote:
> But how large is that lower screen? It looks pretty narrow to me in the > photos. I think it would be pretty hard to read, say Pimlical or Quicken > (to name two applications I use constantly) in that screen.
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com > <mailto:klann...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have been
> hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I suspect the
> lower screen combined with android might make for some very interesting
> uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower
> screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all the
> browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used for
> displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom screen
> for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I could
> probably have a field day with this setup.
> Bert Latamore wrote:
> > Kerry,
> > That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is eInk,
> > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not
> generally
> > considered adequate for general computer displays because it
> lacks the
> > graphic ability and color display.
> > Bert
> -- > Bert Latamore
> IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> You provide the information; I craft the words.
Well, color is an important part of the information on a Quicken screen. I
would not want to step back to gray scale for that and most other displays.
It would work potentially for a word processor, presuming that the screen
responds quickly enough. I have no experience with eInk and just don't know
about that.
The other thing is that I don't know if there would be a real market for a
version of this with other applications. People clearly want keyboards. The
latest thing in portables for instance is not windows tablets but Windows
and Linux netbooks, which essentially look and operate like small laptops,
with an attached keyboard. I am in the distinct minority in wanting a tablet
format computer with an attachable keyboard instead. I want something I can
hold in my hand and use standing up easily, but that is not what is selling.
But even at that the tablets that are out there are falling in price because
the price of components is dropping. So would a $500 tablet computer be
heavy competition for a $350 ebook reader, given that you can of course read
ebooks on the tablet also?
But just to give an example of why I prefer that: Today I had to go down to
Front Royal to meet my wife for lunch, a rare treat. We were meeting at the
eye doctor's actually, where she was picking up her new reading glasses.
While I was going I also wanted to take our trash to the recycling and do
the grocery shopping (I usually do those on Sundays, but this week we had a
nasty personal emergency -- our dog died apparently of brain cancer -- so I
did not get to them).
I actually arrived at the eye doctor's 20 minutes early. No problem, I had
my UX with me, and it is a beautiful day, so I put the windows down in the
car and read my book while listening to music on my iPod until Moire
arrived. I hadn't brought the UX for that reason -- I needed it so I could
enter our expenditures in Quicken and because I have my shopping list in it
(I so wish there was a Windows version of Handishopper, btw! That is one
Palm app I really miss). But since it was there my book was with me. If I
was reading a paper book or a book on a single-use device I might very well
not have thought to bring it with me, and it certainly would have been a
problem if I did -- do I leave it in the hot car or carry it along with my
UX into the doctor's office, the restaurant, and the food store?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's a 3.5" display, which puts the area at roughly the same as an
> iPhone. I can't find the pixel dimensions, though, so I have no idea how
> high the resolution is. At least 72dpi, hopefully much higher.
> Sure, you wouldn't want to view a whole month of a calendar on it, but
> you could do a pretty nice graphical week view, and most certainly
> scroll through a list view. You could view a static month calendar on
> the e-ink screen and use the lower screen for event details and
> add/edit. Same thing for Quicken, you could use the upper screen to view
> a list of transactions and then use the lower screen to add/edit
> transactions or view trends.
> Bert Latamore wrote:
> > But how large is that lower screen? It looks pretty narrow to me in the
> > photos. I think it would be pretty hard to read, say Pimlical or Quicken
> > (to name two applications I use constantly) in that screen.
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com
> > <mailto:klann...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have been
> > hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I suspect
> the
> > lower screen combined with android might make for some very
> interesting
> > uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower
> > screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all the
> > browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used for
> > displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom
> screen
> > for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I
> could
> > probably have a field day with this setup.
> > Bert Latamore wrote:
> > > Kerry,
> > > That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is
> eInk,
> > > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not
> > generally
> > > considered adequate for general computer displays because it
> > lacks the
> > > graphic ability and color display.
> > > Bert
> > --
> > Bert Latamore
> > IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> > From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> > You provide the information; I craft the words.
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
I'm sorry to hear about your dog, that's terrible. I don't think anybody intends to turn an e-ink device into a full-fledged computer or even a competitor for a netbook (or your UX). For example, I do about 95% of my PDA stuff on my iPhone, which also acts as my iPod, but I almost never read on it. For me, an e-ink reader is really just for reading, and I keep it on-hand pretty much always for that purpose. But, as mentioned before, using the lower screen to add book-related functionality would be wonderful, and some folks out there might want to add additional entertainment to the device. One could definitely play around with it and add some functionality, since the OS and the hardware are both there, but of course it's not going to be a full-fledged PDA/netbook replacement. Also, regardless of the desires of executives at Sony, Amazon and B&N, not everybody out there wants a dedicated e-reading device. In fact, I would hazard to guess that the majority of people don't and probably won't in the future. That said, the number of us who do is growing. Also, it's $260, not $350. The $300 I paid for my 505 two years ago is starting to feel like a bit of a rip-off.
Bert Latamore wrote: > Well, color is an important part of the information on a Quicken screen. > I would not want to step back to gray scale for that and most other > displays. It would work potentially for a word processor, presuming that > the screen responds quickly enough. I have no experience with eInk and > just don't know about that.
> The other thing is that I don't know if there would be a real market for > a version of this with other applications. People clearly want > keyboards. The latest thing in portables for instance is not windows > tablets but Windows and Linux netbooks, which essentially look and > operate like small laptops, with an attached keyboard. I am in the > distinct minority in wanting a tablet format computer with an attachable > keyboard instead. I want something I can hold in my hand and use > standing up easily, but that is not what is selling.
> But even at that the tablets that are out there are falling in price > because the price of components is dropping. So would a $500 tablet > computer be heavy competition for a $350 ebook reader, given that you > can of course read ebooks on the tablet also?
> But just to give an example of why I prefer that: Today I had to go down > to Front Royal to meet my wife for lunch, a rare treat. We were meeting > at the eye doctor's actually, where she was picking up her new reading > glasses. While I was going I also wanted to take our trash to the > recycling and do the grocery shopping (I usually do those on Sundays, > but this week we had a nasty personal emergency -- our dog died > apparently of brain cancer -- so I did not get to them).
> I actually arrived at the eye doctor's 20 minutes early. No problem, I > had my UX with me, and it is a beautiful day, so I put the windows down > in the car and read my book while listening to music on my iPod until > Moire arrived. I hadn't brought the UX for that reason -- I needed it so > I could enter our expenditures in Quicken and because I have my shopping > list in it (I so wish there was a Windows version of Handishopper, btw! > That is one Palm app I really miss). But since it was there my book was > with me. If I was reading a paper book or a book on a single-use device > I might very well not have thought to bring it with me, and it certainly > would have been a problem if I did -- do I leave it in the hot car or > carry it along with my UX into the doctor's office, the restaurant, and > the food store?
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, color is an important part of the information on a Quicken screen. I > would not want to step back to gray scale for that and most other displays. > It would work potentially for a word processor, presuming that the screen > responds quickly enough. I have no experience with eInk and just don't know > about that.
You and Kerry seem to be going back and forth. Kerry and I were thinking of using the LCD screen at the bottom of the screen as a display for other things. In this case, you would have color and so forth. Whether the pixel resolution, for the majority of users, is satisfactory remains to be seen. I think Kerry is referring to the fact that a fair amount of information might be displayed on the LCD screen, which is at least the same width as the eink screen. You are thinking of more complex sorts of visual goodness for the eink screen, maybe? That's my interpretation of your last several posts...
Oh, if you are interested, Cringely swears that Apple has something up
its sleeve regarding ebook readers, including an eink color display
that refreshes at video rates. Nice, but it's all speculation.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, color is an important part of the information on a Quicken screen. I
> would not want to step back to gray scale for that and most other displays.
> It would work potentially for a word processor, presuming that the screen
> responds quickly enough. I have no experience with eInk and just don't know
> about that.
> The other thing is that I don't know if there would be a real market for a
> version of this with other applications. People clearly want keyboards. The
> latest thing in portables for instance is not windows tablets but Windows
> and Linux netbooks, which essentially look and operate like small laptops,
> with an attached keyboard. I am in the distinct minority in wanting a tablet
> format computer with an attachable keyboard instead. I want something I can
> hold in my hand and use standing up easily, but that is not what is selling.
> But even at that the tablets that are out there are falling in price because
> the price of components is dropping. So would a $500 tablet computer be
> heavy competition for a $350 ebook reader, given that you can of course read
> ebooks on the tablet also?
> But just to give an example of why I prefer that: Today I had to go down to
> Front Royal to meet my wife for lunch, a rare treat. We were meeting at the
> eye doctor's actually, where she was picking up her new reading glasses.
> While I was going I also wanted to take our trash to the recycling and do
> the grocery shopping (I usually do those on Sundays, but this week we had a
> nasty personal emergency -- our dog died apparently of brain cancer -- so I
> did not get to them).
> I actually arrived at the eye doctor's 20 minutes early. No problem, I had
> my UX with me, and it is a beautiful day, so I put the windows down in the
> car and read my book while listening to music on my iPod until Moire
> arrived. I hadn't brought the UX for that reason -- I needed it so I could
> enter our expenditures in Quicken and because I have my shopping list in it
> (I so wish there was a Windows version of Handishopper, btw! That is one
> Palm app I really miss). But since it was there my book was with me. If I
> was reading a paper book or a book on a single-use device I might very well
> not have thought to bring it with me, and it certainly would have been a
> problem if I did -- do I leave it in the hot car or carry it along with my
> UX into the doctor's office, the restaurant, and the food store?
> Bert
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's a 3.5" display, which puts the area at roughly the same as an
>> iPhone. I can't find the pixel dimensions, though, so I have no idea how
>> high the resolution is. At least 72dpi, hopefully much higher.
>> Sure, you wouldn't want to view a whole month of a calendar on it, but
>> you could do a pretty nice graphical week view, and most certainly
>> scroll through a list view. You could view a static month calendar on
>> the e-ink screen and use the lower screen for event details and
>> add/edit. Same thing for Quicken, you could use the upper screen to view
>> a list of transactions and then use the lower screen to add/edit
>> transactions or view trends.
>> Bert Latamore wrote:
>> > But how large is that lower screen? It looks pretty narrow to me in the
>> > photos. I think it would be pretty hard to read, say Pimlical or Quicken
>> > (to name two applications I use constantly) in that screen.
>> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com
>> > <mailto:klann...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have been
>> > hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I suspect
>> > the
>> > lower screen combined with android might make for some very
>> > interesting
>> > uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower
>> > screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all the
>> > browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used for
>> > displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom
>> > screen
>> > for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I
>> > could
>> > probably have a field day with this setup.
>> > Bert Latamore wrote:
>> > > Kerry,
>> > >
>> > > That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is
>> > eInk,
>> > > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not
>> > generally
>> > > considered adequate for general computer displays because it
>> > lacks the
>> > > graphic ability and color display.
>> > >
>> > > Bert
>> > --
>> > Bert Latamore
>> > IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
>> > From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
>> > You provide the information; I craft the words.
> --
> Bert Latamore
> IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> You provide the information; I craft the words.
Now an e-ink color display that refreshes quickly would be very interesting.
That has been a dream for the next generation portable for years, of course.
Much thinner and lighter, and much more durable. And once production ramps
up, probably cheaper as well. And of course it is still e-ink, so it would
also be great for reading. I still would like a backlight, however, for
reading inside.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Man Ching Cheung <mc.che...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Oh, if you are interested, Cringely swears that Apple has something up
> its sleeve regarding ebook readers, including an eink color display
> that refreshes at video rates. Nice, but it's all speculation.
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Well, color is an important part of the information on a Quicken screen.
> I
> > would not want to step back to gray scale for that and most other
> displays.
> > It would work potentially for a word processor, presuming that the screen
> > responds quickly enough. I have no experience with eInk and just don't
> know
> > about that.
> > The other thing is that I don't know if there would be a real market for
> a
> > version of this with other applications. People clearly want keyboards.
> The
> > latest thing in portables for instance is not windows tablets but Windows
> > and Linux netbooks, which essentially look and operate like small
> laptops,
> > with an attached keyboard. I am in the distinct minority in wanting a
> tablet
> > format computer with an attachable keyboard instead. I want something I
> can
> > hold in my hand and use standing up easily, but that is not what is
> selling.
> > But even at that the tablets that are out there are falling in price
> because
> > the price of components is dropping. So would a $500 tablet computer be
> > heavy competition for a $350 ebook reader, given that you can of course
> read
> > ebooks on the tablet also?
> > But just to give an example of why I prefer that: Today I had to go down
> to
> > Front Royal to meet my wife for lunch, a rare treat. We were meeting at
> the
> > eye doctor's actually, where she was picking up her new reading glasses.
> > While I was going I also wanted to take our trash to the recycling and do
> > the grocery shopping (I usually do those on Sundays, but this week we had
> a
> > nasty personal emergency -- our dog died apparently of brain cancer -- so
> I
> > did not get to them).
> > I actually arrived at the eye doctor's 20 minutes early. No problem, I
> had
> > my UX with me, and it is a beautiful day, so I put the windows down in
> the
> > car and read my book while listening to music on my iPod until Moire
> > arrived. I hadn't brought the UX for that reason -- I needed it so I
> could
> > enter our expenditures in Quicken and because I have my shopping list in
> it
> > (I so wish there was a Windows version of Handishopper, btw! That is one
> > Palm app I really miss). But since it was there my book was with me. If I
> > was reading a paper book or a book on a single-use device I might very
> well
> > not have thought to bring it with me, and it certainly would have been a
> > problem if I did -- do I leave it in the hot car or carry it along with
> my
> > UX into the doctor's office, the restaurant, and the food store?
> > Bert
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> It's a 3.5" display, which puts the area at roughly the same as an
> >> iPhone. I can't find the pixel dimensions, though, so I have no idea how
> >> high the resolution is. At least 72dpi, hopefully much higher.
> >> Sure, you wouldn't want to view a whole month of a calendar on it, but
> >> you could do a pretty nice graphical week view, and most certainly
> >> scroll through a list view. You could view a static month calendar on
> >> the e-ink screen and use the lower screen for event details and
> >> add/edit. Same thing for Quicken, you could use the upper screen to view
> >> a list of transactions and then use the lower screen to add/edit
> >> transactions or view trends.
> >> Bert Latamore wrote:
> >> > But how large is that lower screen? It looks pretty narrow to me in
> the
> >> > photos. I think it would be pretty hard to read, say Pimlical or
> Quicken
> >> > (to name two applications I use constantly) in that screen.
> >> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 3:14 PM, Kerry Lannert <klann...@gmail.com
> >> > <mailto:klann...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> > This is true, but considering the gusto with which people have
> been
> >> > hacking the linux-based Sony Readers and even the Kindle, I
> suspect
> >> > the
> >> > lower screen combined with android might make for some very
> >> > interesting
> >> > uses. You could build a basic solitaire game playable on the lower
> >> > screen, for example. The way they've built the store you do all
> the
> >> > browsing on the lower screen, and the upper screen is only used
> for
> >> > displaying detailed pages about the books you're browsing. Bottom
> >> > screen
> >> > for graphics, upper screen for text. More creative people than I
> >> > could
> >> > probably have a field day with this setup.
> >> > Bert Latamore wrote:
> >> > > Kerry,
> >> > > That is a good thought. The problem is that the main screen is
> >> > eInk,
> >> > > which is specifically designed for reading material. It is not
> >> > generally
> >> > > considered adequate for general computer displays because it
> >> > lacks the
> >> > > graphic ability and color display.
> >> > > Bert
> >> > --
> >> > Bert Latamore
> >> > IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> >> > From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> >> > You provide the information; I craft the words.
> > --
> > Bert Latamore
> > IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
> > From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
> > You provide the information; I craft the words.
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:46, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am in the distinct minority in wanting a tablet format computer with an > attachable keyboard instead.
Most certainly not. The problem so far is a combination of price, performance, battery life and (to my mind the most important factor) a proper tablet GUI. The Windows paradigm totally sucks on phones, and it's even worse on tablets. Apple have a huge advantage with their polished iPhone / iPod Touch interface, and I'm certain they're working on making that work on a full size tablet system.
> So would a $500 tablet computer be heavy competition for a $350 ebook reader, > given that you can of course read ebooks on the tablet also?
If the tablet computer has 50+ hours battery time, then most certainly yes. Except the LCD will not be as good for reading as the eink screen is. And the device will be heavier and more fragile.
I expect future ebooks to get slimmer and more portable, and maybe even "rubberized" and thus rugged - maybe even foldable or rollable. And in a few generations of oled / eink a proper multipurpose display with the sharpness off eink, the contrast of oled and the speed surpassing even what oled and lcd have today will make a true multipurpose device a reality. Until then I will stick with my eink for reading and my LCD for home use and GUI. I occasionally read on the iPhone, but it's nowhere near as comfortable.
I am, however, highly impressed with the screen on my new Macbook Pro 13.3". It's sharp, bright and with immense contrast. Miles ahead of any other laptop screen I've ever used. I suspect convergent devices which will satisfy even my aging eyes are not that far away. The only problem is it can't beat 7 hours battery life without some serious effort, and that's nowhere near enough.
Jesper,
As someone who uses a Windows tablet daily, I think you are a little hard on
the Windows GUI on a tablet. It certainly is not perfect, but it works
pretty well on a touch screen.
The big problem I have is that the editing screens of some of the
applications I use, particularly Quicken and Pimlical, are not sized well
for the Vaio UX screen. This probably is not a problem on larger tablets,
but the Vaio is really sized as a large handheld (which is what I wanted)
rather than a clipboard-sized tablet. In some cases I have to switch layouts
from horizontal to vertical to get to the "okay" button and then back to
horizontal for editing, which is annoying. But I can live with it, and the
advantage of having everything with me when I need to go out of the office
is worthwhile.
On the other hand, I am not arguing that something like the iPhone GUI would
be better.
One thing I would add to your list is a good virtual keyboard, like the
Fitaly keyboard. That is what makes the UX usable for me -- as far as I have
every been able to discover the UX totally lacks handwriting recognition,
and the built-in chicklet keyboard under the screen is very slow and
difficult to use. It is one thing I do not like about the design.
Fortunately Fitaly on Windows is terrific.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:26 PM, Jesper Anderson <jes...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 21:46, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I am in the distinct minority in wanting a tablet format computer with an
> > attachable keyboard instead.
> Most certainly not. The problem so far is a combination of price,
> performance, battery life and (to my mind the most important factor) a
> proper tablet GUI. The Windows paradigm totally sucks on phones, and
> it's even worse on tablets. Apple have a huge advantage with their
> polished iPhone / iPod Touch interface, and I'm certain they're
> working on making that work on a full size tablet system.
> > So would a $500 tablet computer be heavy competition for a $350 ebook
> reader,
> > given that you can of course read ebooks on the tablet also?
> If the tablet computer has 50+ hours battery time, then most certainly
> yes. Except the LCD will not be as good for reading as the eink screen
> is. And the device will be heavier and more fragile.
> I expect future ebooks to get slimmer and more portable, and maybe
> even "rubberized" and thus rugged - maybe even foldable or rollable.
> And in a few generations of oled / eink a proper multipurpose display
> with the sharpness off eink, the contrast of oled and the speed
> surpassing even what oled and lcd have today will make a true
> multipurpose device a reality. Until then I will stick with my eink
> for reading and my LCD for home use and GUI. I occasionally read on
> the iPhone, but it's nowhere near as comfortable.
> I am, however, highly impressed with the screen on my new Macbook Pro
> 13.3". It's sharp, bright and with immense contrast. Miles ahead of
> any other laptop screen I've ever used. I suspect convergent devices
> which will satisfy even my aging eyes are not that far away. The only
> problem is it can't beat 7 hours battery life without some serious
> effort, and that's nowhere near enough.
> Jesper
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 22:35, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com> wrote: > Jesper, > As someone who uses a Windows tablet daily, I think you are a little hard on > the Windows GUI on a tablet. It certainly is not perfect, but it works > pretty well on a touch screen.
You should hear me on the Windows GUI on a Desktop system - to put it mildly, it blows chunks compared to the best GUI's out there. Even OSX beats the pants off of it. Yes, it *works*, especially once you've gotten used to the kinks and warts, and I can make it jump through hoops on command - but it's not even remotely as smooth an experience as it could be.
> One thing I would add to your list is a good virtual keyboard, like the > Fitaly keyboard.
The iPhone keyboard is excellent for occasional text input, but won't do for entering masses of text. Fitaly or somesuch would be a great addition. And a good kana/kanji input for my Japanese studies - this is something which bugs me about the iPhone.
And, well, yeah, I'm hard on the Windows GUI. Or not so much the GUI alone, but the total system of memory management, file allocation methods and general resource management. Windows is built with planned obsolesence and designed to rot with use in order to provide incentive to upgrade, and that shows - and it annoys me very much, since it would be so easy to make it much, much better.
Oh, well, if you want to get into the architecture of Windows, yes it leaves
a lot to be desired. Drives me crazy regularly.
The thing that gets me most with the UX is that things just stop working.
For instance, about three weeks ago (I think) Weatherbug and Vonage
Companion started crashing every time I tried to start them. (Vonage is a US
public VoIP system that replaces the wire-line dial-up phone service. Vonage
Companion is a piece of Front End software allowing you to make and receive
calls, and record them, on Windows or Mac). I tried everything I could think
of including completely deinstalling them, running CCleaner to take
everything out of the Registry, and then reinstalling them No luck at all.
Then a few days ago they suddenly started working again. I have no idea why
they were crashing or why they are working now.
At the moment it appears that the finger print reader is not working. No
idea why, except that I have installed a couple of new updates from
Microsoft in the last couple of days. That may or may not have anything to
do with it. However, I can live without that much easier than I can without
Weatherbug and VOnage.
Oh, and this morning when I started Firefox it announced that it had
identified something in Windows as causing instabilities. That's nice.
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Jesper Anderson <jes...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 22:35, Bert Latamore <bert.latam...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Jesper,
> > As someone who uses a Windows tablet daily, I think you are a little hard
> on
> > the Windows GUI on a tablet. It certainly is not perfect, but it works
> > pretty well on a touch screen.
> You should hear me on the Windows GUI on a Desktop system - to put it
> mildly, it blows chunks compared to the best GUI's out there. Even OSX
> beats the pants off of it. Yes, it *works*, especially once you've
> gotten used to the kinks and warts, and I can make it jump through
> hoops on command - but it's not even remotely as smooth an experience
> as it could be.
> > One thing I would add to your list is a good virtual keyboard, like the
> > Fitaly keyboard.
> The iPhone keyboard is excellent for occasional text input, but won't
> do for entering masses of text. Fitaly or somesuch would be a great
> addition. And a good kana/kanji input for my Japanese studies - this
> is something which bugs me about the iPhone.
> And, well, yeah, I'm hard on the Windows GUI. Or not so much the GUI
> alone, but the total system of memory management, file allocation
> methods and general resource management. Windows is built with planned
> obsolesence and designed to rot with use in order to provide incentive
> to upgrade, and that shows - and it annoys me very much, since it
> would be so easy to make it much, much better.
> *rant mode off*, heheh
> Jesper
-- Bert Latamore
IT Journalist, Report Writer and Book Doctor
From tweets and blogs to white papers and books --
You provide the information; I craft the words.
|
