Tension between Pastors and Worship Leaders
Greg Jones
between Pastors and Worship leaders.
Why do you think these tensions develop and what can be done to bridge gaps?
I'll wait for others to chime in before sharing my thoughts.
Greg
trit...@cox.net
1) Pastor sees worship as "setup" for the "big event" - the sermon; WL sees worship as a vital time in and of itself.
2) Pastor sees worship as a "draw" for the "unchurched;" WL sees it more as a relational activity between God and his children.
3) Pastor and WL differ on styles of music.
4) Someone or ones in the congregation grumble to the pastor about what they "don't like" about worship, and the pastor fears losing "vital members."
5) WL develops a following in the congregation. Pastor feels threatened, and/or WL purposefully cultivates this following, creating division.
6) As a congregation draws closer to God, skeletons begin to get dissatisfied with their closets, and come dancing out in the aisles. Sometimes the worship ministry is the vehicle for a new closeness with God, and the WL gets the blame for some of the things that come to light.
7) There is a move of God afoot in many churches that is causing uncomfortable shifting at a very foundational level. One of the upshots of this is friction between a lot of people - especially "staff."
Who's to blame in these situations - pastor or WL? Either, both, and neither. Sometimes it is a person's ego (or some persons' egos), disobedience, or something of the sort. But in my rarely-humble-enough opinion, our system of church, all by itself, most frequently creates the environment in which tensions develop.
Mike B.
Check out resources for singing worshipers - singingforthemaster.net
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Greg Jones
I see the gap as mainly being that Pastors are typically NOT creatives.
Creativity requires that one always ask, "What if" questions. This type
of questioning can scare Pastors who often think that their job is to
'draw the lines' by giving answers. I personally believe that a Pastor's
job is to give questions, after all Jesus was asked over 100 questions
in His recorded ministry, He answered only 3 of them and turned around
and asked over 300.
Because creativity is question driven (I'd argue that being analytical
is also question driven, but the questions are "What IS" instead of
"What if"), this makes the creativity of a worship leader and musicians
appear 'untamed' to many types of Pastors. The creative can be perceived
as a 'risk' and this creates conflict as the worship leader tries to get
the Pastor to think outside of a box. The
In my own personal experience, I've found that Pastors don't understand
what to look for in a worship leader regarding the artistic side. In
other words, they will look for someone who is a decent singer or
instrumentalist, but they might not understand the difference between
the worship team hitting all of the right notes vs the worship team also
employing dynamics, and great arrangement strategies. As a result, often
times I see churches that have worship teams that might hit all the
right notes but lack these things and sound stale. The Pastor is
oblivious to this, and therefore helped hire a worship leader who was as
well.....
Just my .02
Greg
Frank Scales
I'd like to briefly share observations based on real life experiences,
and I'll share two that have diametrically opposing outcomes.
First - thriving, evangelistic church of about 1500 or so begins to
experience a move into deeper worship lead by worship leader and
hungry congregation. Pastor begins cutting it off and controlling.
Ultimately leads to worship leader leaving and a mass exodus of
people. They form a new church and are thrving today. Former church
has changed names, and I am not sure they're around anymore. And it
was a 30-40 year old church that had a rich, evangelistic history, now
off the map. Was it God or man?
Second - mega church10,000+ in weekly attendance. Pastor hires worship
leader who's cutting edge and lets him do his thing. Worship leader,
humble and submitted supports the pastor. They are a team and "do"
the office in which they are called and skilled. Both pastor and
worship leader show great respect for each other privately and
publically. The church continues to thrive today with 4 venues with
9 weekend services and growing. A great example of servant-leadership.
Dean Thomas
Good question, but too many answers are possible. Mike & Frank brought different experiences to the table, pointing out with Greg a couple of big potential issues, but certainly not all that are possible, and maybe not even the underlying cause (IMO, of course).
Frank talked about a pastor and WL who were working together and getting along well. His implication was that the WL was hired and allowed to do his own thing. I would suggest that's only partly true.
Yes, it could seem that the pastor hired talent, but my guess is that the pastor was considering more than just musical talent, that he hired someone who shared his vision. Talent will get you where character and lack of vision can't keep you, and the character aspect is both the WL's character AND the pastor's! When programs in the church are part of pastoral vision, they will thrive. When they are not, they will wither for lack of support and nurture.
When a pastor doesn't have a clearly delineated vision, it becomes hard to support him/her. If you can't figure out what you're supporting as a WL, you revert to truly "doing your own thing." It is YOUR thing, not PASTOR's thing! When your thing is a Godly, Biblically mandated "thing" like worship and people are inclined to follow, it's going to prosper at some level. Your prosperity based on your vision of what your position entails is going to be threatening to someone whose vision (or lack of vision) is floundering. That sense of being threatened is often aggravated by a lack of security or confidence. If a pastor feels that his/her flock is being polarized by a charismatic WL or Sunday School program, evangelism committee, prison ministry, or anything else that s/he has given permission to, but that is not part of his/her personal vision for the house, that pastor is generally going to react because of the lack of confidence.
If people are supposed to follow and support, and stay under the cloud, the cloud has to have some clear lines of definition. If there is no cloud--no stated, solid vision of the house, it's really hard to get in the shadow of the cloud, hard to follow when there is no clear leader or map.
Again, one man's experience and opinion. I hope it makes sense to someone. It's a bleary-eyed morning.
A Joyous Christmas to each of you!
--
Paul Stewart
respond right now due to work schedule, I was wondering if anyone would
bring up pride, humility, and serving. Pride is one of the most stubborn of
sins in humanity; it seems to me that in "pastors" (those who lead a
ministry) and worship leaders it is an even worse issue.
Jesus said that we should humble ourselves and let God exalt us. Yet how
often does that happen with church leadership? How often do worship leaders
refuse pride, refuse thinking that they know better (and they might, but
that does not matter anyway), and submit to the one in higher authority? I
had to face this again in the last two weeks when I was told to keep Wed.
night worship to 20 minutes. Does it matter if more worship is better? If it
seems like that is hardly enough time to really enter in, especially with
people arriving late? If it is like worship gets short shrift to
preaching...again? Whether any of that is true or not, it is pride for me to
hold onto it, to take offense, to begrudge or refuse to serve as asked. Even
if something really is wrong, respectfully voice your opinion at the proper
place and time, and then submit. *pray*, and then leave it in God's hands.
Bottom line, tension will most often stem all or in part from pride. I'll
give it 3 to 1 odds that the worship leader will be erring in this way (and
2 to 1 that the senior pastor is). We all need to pick up our crosses daily
and be submitted to God....
Paul S
Interesting thread Greg.
--
Greg Jones
Pride is definitely an impediment. I have seen it first hand and maybe
in myself given Paul's statement about letting something go even if we
are right. But let me first explain why I have fought at impasses when I
thought I was right.
When a disagreement arises, the ideal is that both sides express the
reasoning (backed up by God's word whenever possible) behind their
positions. Both sides should try to be as objective as possible in
determining which argument is stronger because after all, when both are
humble, each side loves truth more than winning their argument.
I have too often, found myself arguing with Pastors who didn't use
reason with objectivity, who seemed to love their position more than truth.
That scares me and it smacks of pride. During an impasse, when one
side's position lacks strong reasoning, you expect that side to humbly
surrender, not basically say, "Don't ask for good reasons, do it anyway
because I'm the authority." Truth is the ultimate authority and God is
truth.
And yes it is possible in these situations that I was wrong and had
'blind spots' that weren't uncovered not because the Pastor was wrong,
but simply because he couldn't express WHY he was right....
I believe humility is having the boldness to stare our weaknesses in the
eye without flinching. But what I've learned from these past impasses is
that the only way for truth to be obtained through a contention and to
allow for "iron sharpening iron" is when both sides love the truth more
than they love being right, and both sides have the ability to use
reason. I have learned the hard way to assess the person I am debating
and see if they are reasoned. If they are not, I've learned that what
can be argued without reason, can be dismissed without reason.
Therefore, in that situation, all conversation from my side is disarmed
and I'm left with simply telling the dissenter that I love them. If it
is the Pastor, I am forced to submit in such a situation and let God
sort things out if this means we have veered off of His path.
One last thing that I want to say about pride is that I have too often
found myself in situations where Pastors seem to accommodate people's
pride rather than 'stomp it out'. As an example, at my previous church,
I had a few people drop off the team because they couldn't cut it. I
never told them they couldn't cut it and was thankful that I didn't have
to. I would have preferred that they didn't drop off because my first
intention is to grow people out of such situations. But you have to be
willing to learn to grow and such growth requires a focus on your
weaknesses. These folks neither had the passion to grow, or the
willingness to 'stare their weaknesses in the eye without flinching' to
grow.
To me, a good Pastor cultivates quality over quantity and doesn't coddle
spiritual immaturity but tries to grow it. But I was instead 'dinged'
because these people dropped off. In my opinion, this Pastor wasn't
being Christ-like. Christ let proud people be offended in His earthly
ministry. But maybe I have a blind-spot of pride here.....
Greg