New to Wind Sports

[Joshua Jackson]

Hello all at Wind Fun St. Louis! I recently had a work trip to Deerfield Beach, FL and saw kite boarding for the first time. I knew it was something I had to try (I used to wakeboard quite often in my high school days [11 years ago]). Anyway, I just purchased and received my first trainer kite (hq hydra 350). Flying it in the decent wind today I'm hooked and amazed at the power these kites can produce. I'd like to master the basics before I attempt anything on water with a bigger kite. Would a land board be the next logical step (after getting comfortable with the kite)? If so, any suggestions on a decent/ inexpensive board? Sorry for the long post.

[Tim]

Hi Joshua.  You are on the right track, spend a bunch of time with that trainer now to get familar with kites.  A landboard is also a good way to come up the learning curve; I was out landboarding yesterday getting used to my new kite (it rocks).  I got the landboard years ago so not sure what brands/models are out there now.  Mine is a Ground Industries Patrol Deck or something like that...you can also use a skateboard on a parking lot.  But crashing the kite on asphalt is not so good on it....

 Being a wakeboarder will help you with board skills. 

Highly recommend you go somewhere like South Padre Island TX or Outer Banks NC and take lessons.  Learning here is difficult due to the gusty winds, deep water, and small launches.  Smooth wind and shallow water will allow you to progress MUCH faster.  The schools will also have a large variety of equipment you can try, and that will help you figure out which kites you like, which boards, which harness, etc.  You don't wanna buy stuff that doesn't work for you...it is to expensive !  There are a lot of schools, do some internet research to find a good one.  Kitty Hawk Kites out in NC is pretty cool, and they have on-site lodging.   Even Smithville Lake north of Kansas City is far better than anything here, and makes learning easier.

There is a school in Kansas City, but I have no experience with them.  The kiteboarding group out there is pretty cool, great bunch of guys and they have far better wind and spots than here.  Ha ha that is why there are only a handful of kiters in STL.

Carlyle Lake and Rend Lake in IL are the two spots we usually kite at.  Creve Ceour lake can work, but it is dangerous (people, cars, power lines, terrible wind) so not recommended for beginners.  

Tim

On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Joshua Jackson <joshua.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all at Wind Fun St. Louis!  I recently had a work trip to Deerfield Beach, FL  and saw kite boarding  for the first time. I knew it was something I had to try (I used to wakeboard quite often in my high school days [11 years ago]).  Anyway, I just purchased and received my first trainer kite (hq hydra 350).  Flying it in the decent wind today I'm hooked and amazed at the power these kites can produce.  I'd like to master the basics before I attempt anything on water with a bigger kite. Would a land board be the next logical step (after getting comfortable with the kite)?  If so,  any suggestions on a decent/ inexpensive board?  Sorry for the long post.

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[Joshua]

Tim - I appreciate the advice! Since I have zero experience with skateboarding, I plan on a nice grassy field to start. Lessons sound like a good idea, if for nothing else than to try out different gear like you mention and learn the safety aspect (my wife could easily be convinced if I did it in conjuction with a nice destination for a vacation). I'm probably getting ahead of myself though, considering yesterday was literally the second time I've actually ever flown even just the trainer. I definitely would like to get proficient at flying that before I paid for lessons (no point in wasting money on something I can learn on my own). I'm not familiar with Creve Ceour but am pretty familiar with Rend and Carlyle (Carlyle especially... my parents have a little clubhouse in HLB).

 

Again, thanks for the advice!

[Chris Roberts]

Hi Josh,

I am in a similar position as you.  I have a trainer that I have flown a lot and have learned from that.

 

Kite Force Academy in KC has a $150 Cadet class which is basically an intro to equipment and some time flying a big kite on the shore.  No water time or board time.  I was there for this about 2 weeks ago and met the guys, John and Alex. They are good guys and will work with your schedule.

 

The next step for me is to get out and try some body dragging.  So anyone who has recommendations for where a good place in Rend is for that I would love to hear it.  I don't have the flexibiilty to take off during the week and go to one of the big lakes but I am looking forward to some weekend trips when windy cooperates.

 

-Chris

 

 

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Joshua <joshua.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tim - I appreciate the advice! Since I have zero experience with skateboarding, I plan on a nice grassy field to start. Lessons sound like a good idea, if for nothing else than to try out different gear like you mention and learn the safety aspect (my wife could easily be convinced if I did it in conjuction with a nice destination for a vacation). I'm probably getting ahead of myself though, considering yesterday was literally the second time I've actually ever flown even just the trainer. I definitely would like to get proficient at flying that before I paid for lessons (no point in wasting money on something I can learn on my own). I'm not familiar with Creve Ceour but am pretty familiar with Rend and Carlyle (Carlyle especially... my parents have a little clubhouse in HLB).

 

Again, thanks for the advice!

--

[Tim]

Joshua - you are welcome.  Let me know if there is anything else you need...I'm always glad to help new folk.  And FLY THAT KITE !  Run around with it, fly it one handed, fly it while sitting/laying on the ground, fly it while eating a hamburger, whatever.  All this will help a lot when you get in the water.

Chris - glad to hear you are still with it!  Was just wondering the other day "where is that guy?" ha ha ha

Tim

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Joshua <joshua.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tim - I appreciate the advice! Since I have zero experience with skateboarding, I plan on a nice grassy field to start. Lessons sound like a good idea, if for nothing else than to try out different gear like you mention and learn the safety aspect (my wife could easily be convinced if I did it in conjuction with a nice destination for a vacation). I'm probably getting ahead of myself though, considering yesterday was literally the second time I've actually ever flown even just the trainer. I definitely would like to get proficient at flying that before I paid for lessons (no point in wasting money on something I can learn on my own). I'm not familiar with Creve Ceour but am pretty familiar with Rend and Carlyle (Carlyle especially... my parents have a little clubhouse in HLB).

 

Again, thanks for the advice!

--

[Joshua]

Chris - It's always good to hear of someone in the same spot you are. What kind of trainer did you end up buying? I originally purchased the HQ Rush IV Pro 350 but much to my surprise, when I opened the package, they had shipped me the Hydra 350 instead (not sure if they ran out of the other and gave me the upgrade or if it was a mistake. I did feel bad not calling them to ask, but that went away after flying the kite the first time...).

 

I looked at the Kite Force Academy's website, but it looked like the sessions were $300... I just did a quick look, so maybe I missed something.

 

Here is kind of the plan I laid out for myself (let me know if I'm missing something):

1) Fly the trainer until I feel completely comfortable with it.

2) Find an inexpensive board and try out some landboarding (3.5m may not be big enough unless wind is decent).

3) Test out some light body dragging at Carlyle (I have access to a boat, so I may do the body dragging out in the middle of the lake)

4) Look into some sort of lessons to test out some larger kites in a safe environment and to learn the basic etiquettes of kiteboarding along with proper safety.

5) Bite the bullet and purchase some gear

6) Practice, Practice, Practice

7) ZIP ACROSS THE LAKE!!!

8) Plan a nice vacation for my wife (that just happens to be in a nice location for Kiteboarding, haha).

 

How long will this take? Who knows!

 

The main thing is I'd like to maximize any lessons so that I only need to cover (and pay for) what I can't do on my own.

[Chris Roberts]

Joshua -

I am at the point that I want to start body dragging!  I have flown the big kites for 2-3 hours and lots of hours on the trainer.  The guys at Kite Force said keep practicing on land and start body dragging.

 

The lesson I took used to have a $150 sticker slapped over the $300 price which you see currently.  They must have took that down.  Sorry for that!

 

-Chris

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[Joshua Jackson]

No worries, Chris. I'm only in about an hour on the trainer, haha, so not ready for a lesson quite yet. I know you mentioned body dragging at Rend, do you have a larger kite too, or just the trainer? Do you plan on the dragging with the trainer?

[Uta]

I am in a similar situation, started windsurfing again last summer, came across a trainer kite by accident.  I just was amazed how, easily Kevin managed that kite.  It took me quite a while to control the seemingly uncontrollable.  I talked to some people in the Chicago area for lessons, but that was last year end of fall.  

[Joshua Jackson]

Another decent evening for the trainer kite. I'm actually getting pretty confident with it. I'm looking forward to a day where the wind really gives me a run for my money. I'm thinking of starting to look for a mountain board.

Joshua Jackson

* Please pardon the grammar, sent from a mobile device.

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[Danny Johnson]

Joshua,
 
I have a mountain board I bought while I was up at Kitty Hawk Kites a few years back.  I have only used it once and would be willing to sell it.  I am probably going to build myself a kite buggy to use on the grass instead.

Regards,
 

Danny Johnson

 

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Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 20:00:41 -0500
Subject: Re: New to Wind Sports
From: joshua.j...@gmail.com
To: windf...@googlegroups.com

[Joshua Jackson]

Awesome. Send me a photo and a description when you get the chance. Let me know what you're thinking price wise. I'm not sure I'm looking for something "top of the line" quite yet (should probably stay saving for some lessons and a kiteboarding setup)

Joshua Jackson

* Please pardon the grammar, sent from a mobile device.

[Danny Johnson]

Joshua,
 
You should find a pic of the mountain board attached to this email.  It is a MBS Core 95.  I think I tried it with a sail attached and with my kites.  I am just not good enough with the whole mountain board rig at my age and will probably build or buy a kite buggy before it is all over with.
 
I paid around $300 plus tax at Kitty Hawk Kites a few years back.  I am asking $100 for it.  The wheels still have the little nubbys on them they have been used so little.
 
Regards,

Danny Johnson

 

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Date: Thu, 16 May 2013 20:11:14 -0500
Subject: RE: New to Wind Sports

[Joshua Jackson]

Sold!

Joshua Jackson

* Please pardon the grammar, sent from a mobile device.

[Ben G]

That's a great board. I have the same one and use it with my foil kite in forest park. Incredible deal.

[Joshua Jackson]

Just let me know the best place/time.

[T Kahrhoff]

Josh, just bought the exact same trainer kite in March from a great little surf shop in Michigan. It is indeed a great kite. I would say here in St Louis the land board is indeed the best way to get yourself accustomed to kiting. There are, to my knowledge, zero training facilities in the area...with the closest being in Kansas City 4.5 to 5 hours away. And of course, all over Chicago.

HQ, in addition to great kites, makes good affordable landboards. They are all over the Internet. I've tried Alpine, REI, and SA locally and they have no clue what I'm asking them when I say landboard.

I'll be taking my second private lesson on the waters of Lake Michigan next month in Grand Haven. The best way to learn is through a certified IKO instructor, but with a small kite like the hydra, learning on your own is possible. It becomes extremely dangerous, if not deadly, with anything larger than a trainer. Be very careful.

Sent from my iPad

On May 14, 2013, at 9:23 PM, Joshua Jackson <joshua.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all at Wind Fun St. Louis! I recently had a work trip to Deerfield Beach, FL and saw kite boarding for the first time. I knew it was something I had to try (I used to wakeboard quite often in my high school days [11 years ago]). Anyway, I just purchased and received my first trainer kite (hq hydra 350). Flying it in the decent wind today I'm hooked and amazed at the power these kites can produce. I'd like to master the basics before I attempt anything on water with a bigger kite. Would a land board be the next logical step (after getting comfortable with the kite)? If so, any suggestions on a decent/ inexpensive board? Sorry for the long post.
>

[Joshua Jackson]

T Kahrhoff - So far I love that trainer kite. I actually ordered the Rush IV pro 350 but they sent me the Hydra instead (not going to complain). A landboard is definitely my next purchase. I'm sure the Hydra will have enough power when the winds get a little stronger than what I have been flying it in. Either way, I have a 6 acre property with a decent hill on it so sounds like fun anyway! I've mainly looked on Amazon and other sites for the board, but I'm going to buy the one Danny has (assuming he still wants to sell it).

 

When I first started looking at Kiteboarding a month or so ago, i thought to myself, "surely I could teach myself to do that... I taught myself to wakeboard'. Then I saw some videos and decided that wasn't a smart idea. Like others have said on here, the lessons will be worth it if for nothing else than to try out different equipment and learn the safety procedures/equipment inside and out.

 

I appreciate the feedback!

 

Joshua Jackson

[Danny Johnson]

Joshua,

Maybe we can meet at Creve couer, rend, or Carlyle some time.  I live out towards Carlyle in case you are ever out my way.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

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[Joshua Jackson]

Sounds good. I live out towards Carlyle as well. (New Baden)

[KDA...@aol.com]

TKK129

 

saw your mail who do you take lessons from in Michigan??  do you drive up there are you looking for any one to join you

 

Thanks for your Help

Kevin

[Danny Johnson]

Joshua,

In that case I can meet you at the mcdonalds in town sometime.

Regards

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On May 20, 2013, at 9:33 AM, "Joshua Jackson" <joshua.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sounds good. I live out towards Carlyle as well. (New Baden)

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[Joshua Jackson]

Sounds like a plan!

[Terry Kahrhoff]

Kevin, Ive been going to Michigan for family trips. Started after the Gulf oil spill and weve been back every year since. Its absolutely awesome. The shop I am doing my private lesson from is in Grand Haven and is called Wet Mitten. Owned by two brothers, it’s the perfect little mom and pop surf shop and has IKO instructors. Im paying 350 for a 5 hour private lesson. Pretty cheap.

 

Lake Michigan may be called a lake, but it can have the surf, tides, and waves of any Gulf waters Ive been to. And, its shark free. Always a plus in my world.

 

Here is the link to the shop…if you call, ask for John or Ben. Great guys.

 

http://www.wetmittensurfshop.com/

 

Terry-

 

From: windf...@googlegroups.com [mailto:windf...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of KDA...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 11:16 AM
To: windf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New to Wind Sports

 

TKK129

--

[Terry Kahrhoff]

Josh, Im in Lake St Louis. If you are ever out this way, Id love to hook up with our Hydras and share some pointers. Im sure we could learn just by sharing experiences. Let us know how the landboarding goes after you get your feet wet on that.

 

Terry-

 

From: windf...@googlegroups.com [mailto:windf...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joshua Jackson
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 7:59 AM
To: windf...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: New to Wind Sports

 

T Kahrhoff - So far I love that trainer kite. I actually ordered the Rush IV pro 350 but they sent me the Hydra instead (not going to complain). A landboard is definitely my next purchase. I'm sure the Hydra will have enough power when the winds get a little stronger than what I have been flying it in. Either way, I have a 6 acre property with a decent hill on it so sounds like fun anyway! I've mainly looked on Amazon and other sites for the board, but I'm going to buy the one Danny has (assuming he still wants to sell it).

--

[Terry Kahrhoff]

Good Luck Josh. You got a great deal on a great board!

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[Joshua Jackson]

Terry - that would be a fun time flying with someone else around, sharing ideas. I live in Illinois, so Lake St. Louis would be quite the drive! I'm looking forward to trying it's water survivability at Carlyle sometime. Hopefully it gets enough power to try out some dragging.

[Tim]

Joshua, dragging is awesome practice and will be a huge benefit.  Get yourself into the "superman" position, one hand on the bar controlling power and other hand out in front of you.  It is a great workout.

Just be aware that you will get pulled downwind, so have a boat or something around to retrieve you.  ha ha or end up walking around the entire lake. 

You could also play around with an old surfboard, or kayak, or whatever.  Your kite won't generate enough power to kiteboard with (unless you weight 60 lbs) but if you are on something that floats you can have some fun.  The Hydra is a great kite..I need to pick one up.  Most foils are pretty useless in the water...once they hit and get wet game over.

Tim

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[Joshua Jackson]

Tim - Dragging sounds like a lot of fun too. I'll definitely have a boat around. I'll probably just go out in the middle of the lake. I currently don't have a harness or D-loop. I'm wondering if those would be a good investment (the harness will be needed anyway, the D-loop isn't very expensive).

 

Haven't done anything around the water with the Hydra yet, but I still love that kite. I'm really glad they sent me the wrong one...

[Tim]

Joshua, it would be ideal to have a harness for body dragging since that would mimic kiteboarding.  But, your Hydra kite doesn't have a sheeting system nor does the bar have a chicken loop ( I think that is what you called the "d-loop" ?) so not really necessary.  Sure you could add a chicken loop but without sheet-ability (control the angle of attack of the kite which lets you modulate power) not much point in it.  I've flown 3-line foils with a harness and they can be scary in our gusty winds...when a gust hits your kite is suddenly making tons more power and you can't control it.

Harness is a really personal choice...there are three main styles.  Seat, waist, and shorts.  You really need to try a bunch of different ones to see what works for you.  I use an Ocean Rodeo Session 2, and love it.  Others love shorts like the Dakine Nitrous, and others love the seat type.  One thing to keep in mind is that if you get a normal waist harness, it will probably ride up which obviously moves the hook up which means you get far less potential bar throw and difficult to reach the sheeting system.  I got short little arms so this was a real problem until I got the Session.  A seat harness keeps the hook low, but the riding position is restricted as is freedom of movement (at least to me).

Like I said before, just fly that kite until you can do it without thinking.  Do the landboard thing.  Try a kayak or SUP or floaty or whatever in the water.  Move the kite across the window. Sit on the ground in a tuck (like starting a wakeboard) and dive the kite to pull you up to standing.  If the wind is light, loop it to get enough power to stand up.  Run 90 degrees to the wind and sine-wave the kite up and down.   All this kite flying will pay big dividends when you take a lesson and fly a full-sized kite.

If you ever wanna get together let me know and I can show you some equipment and explain it...I know how hard it is here since there are no local shops to go look at stuff !  If there is wind I'd let you fly (on land) a normal kite so you can see what they are like.  I have a couple old ones that I won't cry over if you crash them into the ground.

Do you have a SUP? I saw somewhere that using the Hydra with a SUP is good fun.  

Oh, and please wear a life jacket.  You'll need a kiteboarding one eventually, but anything will work for body dragging.

Tim

 

[Joshua Jackson]

Tim - From what I've read, the chicken loop is for the depowering (sheeting). The D-Loop (http://thekitebuddy.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=102) is used on 2-line or 3-line kites and basically just attaches to the bar and provides a loop to hook into the harness. This would allow for flying the kite one handed and reducing fatigue on the arms/hands. The one thing that does make me a little nervous about it, however, is the fact that simply letting go of the handle would no longer pull the third (brake) line. In a bind, one would have to let go of the bar and then either unhook the loop from the harness or pull the emergency release on the loop (although I have yet, despite my best efforts, been overpowered... wind hasn't been high enough for that yet). HOWEVER, I hear you about the trying out harnesses before making a purchase, so i'm just not going to worry about any of that for now.

 

I've still only flown the kite about 4 times but feel pretty comfortable doing it. I tried running 90 degrees to the kite but I keep losing power...

 

I appreciate the offer! I may just take you up on it sometime. I want to maximize any time I spend with a trainer so anything I can get accustomed to before hand will pay huge dividends for me in the long run. Let me know if you ever make it out to Carlyle (if not, I'd definitely drive anywhere in the area to check it out sometime).

 

I do not have a SUP (may have to look into one). Most of my previous water activities revolved around wakeboarding (started off skiing/slalom and transitioned to wakeboarding the first time I saw a board). I always wear a life jacket anymore. I've had a couple nasty wipeouts on the wakeboard where I was glad I had one on.

 

Again, I really appreciate all the advice/guidance/etc. everyone has given me so far. (my wife thinks it's funny that I joined a group centered around me flying a kite, haha, but there are some really nice, helpful people on here)

[Tim]

Joshua, I live out west (saint charles) so Carlyle is my go-to lake as it is the closest.  Nothing out my way works, except for creve ceour but I have yet to make that happen.  Something always goes wrong there...some sort of curse.  ha ha ha.

If you have a good place to land-fly kites then next time I head out to Carlyle we could meet and chat.  Seeing the equipment (if you haven't seen it) in person would be good, and of course flying a kite.  And I'll bring all my various harness for you to see and try (if you are XL they will fit great).  If you have a good place to fly a kite, I don't really mind a road trip, especially if it is a good spot to landboard.  My landboard spots are pretty useless on weekends now..to many soccer players.  Let me know where you fly and I'll look it up on google maps.

You are right about the d-loop..those are great for coastal areas with nice smooth wind but not the best idea here due to our gusts.  You can certainly use one on your Hydra since it isn't big enough to get you into serious trouble..you might get dragged a bit during a gust if you are locked in, but that is about it.  I fly my 6m foil with a d-ring and it works OK.  Mine is home-made and doesn't have any sort of release...  You gotta pull the bar toward you (overcoming whatever pull the kite has) to get it out of the hook.  Flying like this with a landboard is sort of fun since the only control of kite power you have is to edge the board.   I have been bit a few times by that crazy kite so don't fly it much anymore.  Hard to believe the pioneers of this sport used those old-school 2-line foils to actually kiteboard.  We are so lucky, modern equipment is just way way way better.

The local sailing/kayak shop has this cool inflateable SUP...I have been toying with getting one since my ride is not so great at hauling full-size SUP.  From what they say and I've read, it works pretty good.  Combined with a Hydra, that could be fun.  I wonder if I could fly my smallest kite (9m) with it and go upwind...hmmmm something to think about.

Tim

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[Joshua Jackson]

Tim - I've only flown the kite in the park in New Baden, IL (it's on the east side of town, south of the swimming pool). I have yet to go out on a weekend though, so i can't say whether or not it's a good spot. I'm sure there are much better places a lot closer to you, haha. I think something is keeping the wind from being "pure" there, since the kite tends to randomly lose power and then get it back.

[Igor]

Hello everybody,

I have been following your group for a couple of weeks, it is amazing to find people that share this passion or better, as my wife calls it, obsession.
Of course, she has such a long way to go before beeing able to understand what windsurfing is........
I recently moved to St. Louis, when I looked at the map and realize where it was, I never imagine that was possible to go windsurfing here. I remember last November going for a walk to CC lake at seeing a kiter in the water but no winsurfers.
I have been windsurfing pratically all my life but I left all my gear in Europe. Anybody knows a cheap way to bring it here? Any experience in that?
In the mean time I bought a kite, went once to CC lake but has been a TOTAL disaster, I saw you people talking about a trainer kite but I did not get one yet.
Next weekend I'll take a course with the hope that after I will be able to meet you at the beach
and have some wonderfull sessions.

Greetings,

Igor

[Tim]

Welcome to the group.

Tim

- can you hear me now?

[Joshua Jackson]

Where are you taking your lesson at, Igor? (Trying to feel out the different options)

Joshua Jackson

* Please pardon the grammar, sent from a mobile device.

[Ben G]

Igor Ithink I met you a few weeks ago with Chris and Chad at CC. From France?
welcome