Non-dairy whey?

[Todd]

Hello all,

We have a contract to cater an upcoming vegan event ... wow! Kefir
whey is a main ingredient in most of my salad dressings, so I'm
researching alternatives for that. I plan to use the kefir whey as a
starter for something like soy milk, and then make a few batches to
reduce the amount of kefir whey in the final mix. Does anyone have
experience doing something like this? Information on the internet
seems minimal. I have read that soy milk will separate into curds and
liquid on heating, so that's where I'll be starting; I'm also going to
try a direct innoculation at room temperature to see if I can get a
drainable yogurt. Any advice?

thanks!
-Todd

[gyps...@gmail.com]

Hi Todd,
What purpose does the kefir whey serve in your salad dressing?? 
Have you considered Lacto Fermented Vegetable juice in place of the dairy whey?  It's really good and it might work.  Or what about using Water Kefir grains to ferment nut milk that you make?  I've read somewhere of folks using Water Kefir grains on non-dairy milk.

Looking forward to what you come up with.
Blessings,
Marie

-Todd

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[Todd Van Horne]

Hi Marie, good questions. The main two purposes it serves are as a flavoring and a preservative. I think kefir whey has a rich umami flavor, so it saves putting in other ingredients. Kefir whey also stays good for a very long time, and I suspect it has a similar effect on things it's mixed with. Kefir whey mayonnaise, for example, will spoil much more slowly than a regular mayonnaise. I had a good result from one of my soy milk experiments, and just put together a dressing with it last night. I'll let you know how it turns out!

[Elizabeth Evans]

How about dairy kefir grains in coconut milk? (what i have read is
that it works, but you can't use them for dairy again ... they lose
something)
Or water kefir grains in coconut water?

Elizabeth

[Todd Van Horne]

Unfortunately, not much access to coconut milk in Japan!

-Todd

[gyps...@gmail.com]

Todd,  I believe the lacto fermented vegetable juice would provide the same purpose.... I use it in the mayonnaise that I make for the very same reason because I do not use dairy of any kind.... I've also used it recently in some very delicious fermented ketchup.  The one difference would be the flavor of the lacto juice would be determined by the vegetables that are fermented... unless you use a large amount, I don't feel the flavor would be noticeable because it isn't in the mayonnaise that I make.

[Nancy H Alwin]

Gypsy Marie, where did you find a recipe for fermented ketsup? Can you send it to me? That and the mayo too!

I'm just learning to use fermentation, made some kraut, going to get some kefir grains and go to town! So exciting.

Can't wait to hear the ketsup recipe...ketsup can be GOOD for you??? LOL!

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[Todd Van Horne]

Great to know!  Cabbage is just coming back into season and I was thinking I really want some sauerkraut--I'll have to try this!

I also found a fermented ketsup recipe a while ago, but tomatoes are expensive here. :(

-Todd

[gyps...@gmail.com]

Hi Nancy,
I did a search on google for lacto fermented ketchup... I wrote down the basic ingred of 10 recipes and then went through them to pick and choose for my recipe.  I made 2 different recipes and really like them both... so I'll most likely be making 2 to have on hand...

I'm the only one in the house who will eat this so I've made small batches....

#1
7 oz organic tomato paste
1/4 c. boiled and cooled water
1 clove garlic put through a garlic press
1 Tb. fish sauce
1 Tb. Nama Shoyu (non-pasturized soy sauce)
1/2 Tb. black strap molasses
2 Tb. organic cane sugar
1 Tb. raw apple cider vinegar
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp granulated onion
1/4 tsp cinnamon
pinch clove
pinch allspice
1/4 tsp dry mustard
2 Tbs. lacto fermented juice (from vegetables)

Mix altogether and pour into a wide mouth pint canning jar.  It will be nearly 3/4 full.  Smooth the top as much as possible.  Take another 1 Tbs. lacto juice and carefully pour over the top surface.  Put the jar lid on but leave loose.  Let sit 3-5 days and then refrigerate.

#2
7 oz organic tomato paste
1/4 c. boiled/cooled water
2 Tbs. lacto juice
3 Tbs. maple syrup
1 clove garlic, pressed
2 Tbs. fish sauce
1 Tbs. Nama Shoyu
1/8 tsp cinnamon
Mix and pour into the jar as above.  Also add the additional Tbs. lacto juice to top as in #1.  This one was thinner than #1.

I found them both yummy in their own way.  Certainly the recipes could be doubled... Once I have it tweaked to my liking, I will make a larger batch.  The second time I made #1, I used Rapadura sugar in place of org. cane sugar.  I do not like it as well and won't do that again.  It might work though if the blackstrap mollases was eliminated if using Rapadura sugar.  You can certainly adjust the thickness/thiness by adjusting the water.

The mayo base recipe I got from TropicalTraditions.com... this is what I've tweaked it to:
3/4 c. oil. (I used equal amounts (2 oz each) of virgin coconut oil, Extra virgin olive oil and unrefined sesame oil - NOT toasted sesame)
2 egg yolks
1/4 tsp dry mustard
1/8 tsp salt
few shakes of granulated onion and garlic (optional)
1/4 tsp org. cane sugar (optional)
1 Tbs. raw apple cider vinegar
3/4 Tbs. rice vinegar

I place all the ingredients into a wide mouth pint canning jar.  I insert my stick blender, hold it on the bottom of the jar, turn it on and count to 10.  Then begin slowly (while holding it steady against the side of the jar) bringing it up to the top of the oil/mixture.  By the time you get to the top you have mayonnaise and it takes less than a 30 seconds!  It will be very thick.  I then stir in by hand 2 Tbs. lacto fermented veg juice.  I put the lid on, and let it sit on the counter several hours (some recipes say 7 hrs) to allow the fermentation to take place.  Then place in the refrigerator.

On the Tropical Traditions website there are many comments (I recommend reading them all) on the mayonnaise video that can give you a lot of different perspectives on the recipe and process... that's where I got the idea for using the stick blender.  I've made mayonnaise by hand many years ago and it's time consuming.  Using the stick blender in the jar is quick, easy and you store it in the same jar.  I use it up within 2 weeks and use tape to put the date I make it and then 2 wk ahead on the jar lid. Using the stick blender in a bowl will not give the same results, in my opinion. Some recipes using whey, and fermenting for 7 hrs. say it will keep much longer... but I don't use whey and I feel better about not pushing the safety boundary that far.

Also... The Healthy Home Economist dot com and Cheeseslave dot com are both good for reference and recipes too... as well as Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon.

Enjoy and have fun!