Nomenclature for WikiMaster

[Carol]

Hi all
I'm new to this group, so "Hi" to everyone.

I co-facilitating the current WikiEducator workshop and I came across
the WikiMaster certification.

Now I am a great advocate of using gender-neutral terminology.

I know that master could be thought of as mastery of a skill/subject
but even so the term has a long history of being associate with male
activity, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master. With origins in
Medieval Guilds which of course were only open to men.

I would like to propose that a gender-neutral term be found.

For example WikiExpert, Guru, Principal, Champion, Pro, Virtuoso

What are your thoughts?

Best wishes

Carol

[aprasad]

If we go for a change, I would prefer Guru :)

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[Wayne Mackintosh]

Hi Carol,

Welcome to the list!

I share your advocacy for gender neutral terminology, and this is well aligned with WIkiEducator's Open Community Governance Policy which is rooted in the following shared values: 

diversity, freedom, innovation, transparency, equality, inclusivity, empowerment, human dignity, wellbeing and sustainability.

Reflecting back on the development of the typology -- the community intent was to associate the typology with the notions of mastery based on the metaphor of a mentored apprenticeship process.

I invite you to join the workgroup which is reviewing the criteria of our community certification model (http://wikieducator.org/WikiMaster/Workgroup) as this would be a good time to revisit the terminology.

It would be great to get a rough consensus from members on the list regarding  your thoughts about changing the nomenclature.

Pending a positive response, we can then discuss alternatives in the workgroup and assess the activities and actions required for changing the typology (for example -- the emplates used across the wiki, updating all the tutorials and references to the typology, and finding volunteers to implement the changes etc.)

Thanks Carol -- great contribution.

Cheers
Wayne



    

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[Patricia Schlicht]

Hi Wayne,

I like the WikiChampion. She has got a point.

cheers,

Patricia

[Wayne Mackintosh]

Hi Patricia & Anil

Agreed -- I can see that the concept of "WIkimaster" can be misinterpreted and perceived to convey gender bias (although not intended :-( ).  That said, why should we be using terms which can be misinterpreted or ambiguous?

Hey - -there may be some debate and competition about the substitute candidate :-)  I see that WikiGuru and  WikiChampion are in the running ;-)

Join the workgroup and help us find the best solution for the community.

Cheers
Wayne

[Sebastian Panakal]

Dear Carol,

 

I agree with you. Keep me posted of developments.

Regards

Sebastian Panakal

On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:14 AM, Carol <carolcoo...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Jan Visser]

On the other hand:

 

Women and Medieval Guilds

There were women in Medieval Guilds. A law called 'femme sole' allowed women to trade in their own right in the case of a widow continuing her husband's craft. The whole family were involved in the Craft Guilds helping the craft guild member who was the head of the family. A wife, daughter or son would work accordingly in the trade of the family. Women were therefore able to take over the trade upon the death of a husband. (see http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/medieval-london-guilds.htm).

 

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_the_Middle_Ages and http://www.virtualworldlets.net/Papers/Hosted/WomenMed.php.

 

Prof. Philip Daeleader has excellent courses on the Middle Ages with The Teaching Company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Daileader).

 

I think the designation master has a long history of gender neutral use. One can even obtain a master degree in gender studies. The term is widely used as an academic qualification (MSc, MA, MBA, etc.) In the arts, particularly music, there are master classes and there is no shortage of women offering or taking such classes.

 

I value the connection with the concept of 'mastery' and thus vote for 'master' as the preferred alternative among those offered to designate this supreme level of competence.

 

Jan

 

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[shekhar sharma]

How about WikiWiz?

Shekhar Sharma
9437 Black Hawk Court
Manassas, VA 20111
703-335-9454

[Carol]

Hi Jan

Interesting that you raise the issue that a woman could take over on
the death of her husband. Not of any consolation for those not wishing
to be married who who might have liked to be a member of the guild in
their own right not as a replacement for a dead husband. Pls don't
think I am having a go just wanting to add to the debate here.

There have been many feminists myself amongst them who would have
willingly been awarded something other than Master for a degree, but
fighting academia is almost impossible in these matters. Heck I
couldn't even submit my thesis on CD back in 1999, now of course they
are digitising everything :) The irony is not lost on me. I hope one
day my female colleague will be able to be awarded something not
entitled Master.

Everyone - What other terms are there we could use? I am sure my list
of suggestions is only the tip of the iceberg.

Carol

[minh mcCloy]

Why can't master be rounded up & be just gently morphed  into a word that connotes any & all genders. English does meaning shifts all the time to - it is part of its power & delight.

Why abandon 'master' to a gendered ghetto? What will you do with 'masterpiece" -gurupiece, superpersonpiece?

We could embrace 'master' exhibit flexibility.

wikimaster has a nice ring to it

:)
minh

Carol

[Jan Visser]

Hi Minh and Carol,

 

Yes, Minh, that’s exactly my point. It’s by using the terms across the genders that those connotations start changing. Terms like director, minister, secretary, doctor, nurse, president, engineer, farmer, entrepreneur, author, technician and many more are used across the genders. In my own culture of origin there are male midwives who refuse to be called anything but midwife (because of the nice ring – the Dutch translation of midwife connotes wisdom) even though a perfectly acceptable gender neutral term also exists. In the past such terms as the ones cited may have had strong gender connotations, but the more we progress beyond the divisions of the past, the more those terms lose those connoted irrelevant meanings. We are now way beyond the Middle Ages, a period in the history of Europe that wasn’t as bad as often depicted. As we and our communities and societies evolve throughout the ages, so do our languages. Flexibility is what allows it to happen.

 

Jan

 

---

[ESPHIT Andrés Aurelio Alarcón Tique]

Hellow every body

I have also the feeling that there is no matters than affect people using generic names regarding our genders, some of name come from history and customes

In spanish there names had been lateley reformed to be also female, but they don´t sounds good I´ll prefer the used name. in english is easy to use generic names without think in genders

Best Regards

Andres Aurelio

2010/7/25 Jan Visser <jvi...@learndev.org>

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[Alison Snieckus]

Hi all,

I'm OK with the nomenclature as is. As Jan and others have indicated, by using the term "master" as we do, even recognizing that our intent refers to the idea of mastery, we continue the process of changing its meaning to include women. I like the idea of "reclaiming" language to suit our current needs. As far as I can tell, there are no identified "wikimasters".

It is more important to me that both men and women are sufficiently represented in the upper certification levels.

I added a note with a link to this discussion on the Workgroup:Wikimaster_criteria page on WE.

Good discussion,
Alison
http://wikieducator.org/User:ASnieckus

2010/7/25 ESPHIT Andrés Aurelio Alarcón Tique <esp...@gmail.com>

[Patricia Schlicht]

Thanks, Wayne, done!

Cheers,

Patricia

[Carol]

Interesting discussion. Is there any way Wayne to put this out to the
whole WikiEducator community so we get a wide range of views?

Cheers Carol

On Jul 26, 5:17 am, Alison Snieckus <alison.sniec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm OK with the nomenclature as is. As Jan and others have indicated, by
> using the term "master" as we do, even recognizing that our intent refers to
> the idea of mastery, we continue the process of changing its meaning to
> include women. I like the idea of "reclaiming" language to suit our current
> needs. As far as I can tell, there are no identified "wikimasters".
>
> It is more important to me that both men and women are sufficiently
> represented in the upper certification levels.
>
> I added a note with a link to this discussion on the

> Workgroup:Wikimaster_criteria<http://wikieducator.org/Workgroup:Wikimaster_criteria>page
> on WE.
>
> Good discussion,
> Alisonhttp://wikieducator.org/User:ASnieckus

>
> 2010/7/25 ESPHIT Andrés Aurelio Alarcón Tique <esp...@gmail.com>
>
> > Hellow every body
> > I have also the feeling that there is no matters than affect people using
> > generic names regarding our genders, some of name come from history and
> > customes
> > In spanish there names had been lateley reformed to be also female, but
> > they don´t sounds good I´ll prefer the used name. in english is easy to use
> > generic names without think in genders
>
> > Best Regards
> > Andres Aurelio
>

> > 2010/7/25 Jan Visser <jvis...@learndev.org>

>
> >  Hi Minh and Carol,
>
> >> Yes, Minh, that’s exactly my point. It’s by using the terms across the
> >> genders that those connotations start changing. Terms like director,
> >> minister, secretary, doctor, nurse, president, engineer, farmer,
> >> entrepreneur, author, technician and many more are used across the genders.
> >> In my own culture of origin there are male midwives who refuse to be called
> >> anything but midwife (because of the nice ring – the Dutch translation of
> >> midwife connotes wisdom) even though a perfectly acceptable gender neutral
> >> term also exists. In the past such terms as the ones cited may have had
> >> strong gender connotations, but the more we progress beyond the divisions of
> >> the past, the more those terms lose those connoted irrelevant meanings. We
> >> are now way beyond the Middle Ages, a period in the history of Europe that
> >> wasn’t as bad as often depicted. As we and our communities and societies
> >> evolve throughout the ages, so do our languages. Flexibility is what allows
> >> it to happen.
>
> >> Jan
>

> >>  ------------------------------
>
> >> *From:* wikied...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> >> wikied...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *minh mcCloy
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:54 PM
> >> *To:* wikied...@googlegroups.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [WikiEducator] Re: Nomenclature for WikiMaster
>
> >> *Why can't master be rounded up & be just gently morphed  into a word

> >> that connotes any & all genders. English does meaning shifts all the time to

> >> - it is part of its power & delight.*
>
> >> *Why abandon 'master' to a gendered ghetto? What will you do with
> >> 'masterpiece" -gurupiece, superpersonpiece?*
>
> >> *We could embrace 'master' exhibit flexibility.*
>
> >> *wikimaster has a nice ring to it*
>
> >> *:)
> >> minh*
>
> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Carol <carolcoopertay...@gmail.com>

[Derek Chirnside]

Shekhar, 'Wiz' as in Wizard?

-Derek

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: shekhar sharma <rsvp2s...@gmail.com>
Date: 25 July 2010 21:19
Subject: Re: [WikiEducator] Nomenclature for WikiMaster
To: wikied...@googlegroups.com


How about WikiWiz?

[shekhar sharma]

Yes as in Wizard.

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[Wayne Mackintosh]

Hi Carol,

Yes, -- the way we do this is in WikiEducator is through the process of a "Community Workgroup" --- There is a policy which guides the establishment of workgroups and the procedures for decisions which have a community wide impact.

See: http://wikieducator.org/Workgroup:WikiEducator_Workgroups/Guidelines

Clearly there is community interest relating to the nomenclature of the WIkimaster typology and given that there is already an existing workgroup, this would be the best vehicle to take a community decision and plan for the implementation.  Work would be done transparently in the wiki with regular updates on the community list. In this way -- anyone with a substantive interest in the topic will be free to add their views and help shape and implement any decisions which are taken.

This is an issue falling within the ambit of an "operational guideline" and would not require "approval" from Council to be implemented -- which is the reason Council approved the policy for workgroups - -that is a process for the community to take decisions.

Next step is to get the nomenclature question into the charter for this workgroup and move forward.

Cheers
Wayne

[MALLAMIBRO]

Hi All,
With due respect to all the female members of WE, i feel the
WikiMaster conveys the intended meaning for that level of attainment.
Ibrahim Oyekanmi

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Email: malla...@gmail.com

[minh mcCloy]

I have often used the criteria of novice, apprentice, journeyman, master with k-6 kids in the context of skill acquisition. Not once has either the master or journeyMAN been an issue with the kids- they don't see it. Sometimes however a visiting adult will impose their acquired prejudice on the kids & insist on discussing/commenting on the practice. It induces a lot of shrugging in the kids as the attempt to see what issue is there.

It is my feminism that makes me want claim words that are useful or stylish or quaint or incongruous for general use. On the other hand I have a real fondness for the word aviatrix - so singular, so little opportunity to use it. But if I could aviate I think I would call myself an aviatrix :D - & thus declare my mastery of the skies - me & Amelia Erheart.

:)

minh

[Randy Fisher]

Hi All,

I am pleased to see the diversity and breadth of discussion - and many new voices.

It is a credit to our mutual efforts, that WikiEducator and OER are reaching more and more people, and providing opportunities for substantive discourse and content creation, and sharing.

Bravo!

- Randy

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[Sebastian Panakal]

I am watching the variety of ideas, interesting discussions and the enjoying thrill of being in WE community. Let there be more. I have not made up my mind yet...

[Patricia Schlicht]

It is really interesting to follow all the different views and for me personally, there are seveal aspects that seems to ring true. They are:

 

1. While I think Carol has a point in pointing out the gender specific word "Master", there are several thoughts I have I would like to share:

[Patricia Schlicht]

Sorry, hit the sent button too early, my fingers were fast (;-)))

 

So in continuation of my thoughts, this is what I would like to share:

 

a. While Carol definitely has a point in pointing out the gender insensitive word "Master" (it would be the same vice versa, namely, if the WikiMaster programme would be called "WikiMistress", I am pretty sure our male population would object (smile!)

 

b. I also think that the "wikiMASTER" programme should be looked at like a "degree", a recognition for completing certain tasks and assignment to showcase wikiskills 'mastered"/not mistressed. Like a Bachelor of Arts (not Bachelorette of Arts) or a Master Degree in whatever you want it to be (not a Mistress Degree).

 

Several ideas were supported and naturally, our own cultures come into play, so WikiGuru naturally finds its home in mostly Asian environments but Champion, like I suggest, would be something chosen over here.

 

I think if we are to change the naming convention for the "wikimaster" programme, we would need to find something gender neutral.

 

Just my thoughts reading all the comments.

 

Cheers,

Patricia

[Jan Visser]

Hi Patricia,

 

Thanks for those insights.

 

The cultural aspect is indeed crucial. Though we communicate in English, we are all from hugely diverse cultures. By way of example, I have found that often, when I work at universities in Mexico, people tend to call me Maestro. In terms of academic titles that would be below my level (in Portuguese speaking countries I would typically be called Doutor, or, if I am lucky, Engenheiro). As to Maestro, I can’t be sure if the connotations the Mexican academics have in mind, when they work with me, go beyond the ordinary meaning of teacher. But it makes me feel honored because the term is, particularly in the way they use it, an expression of respect, of recognition of the great value (mutually felt) that is inherent in the relationship between master and apprentice. It goes beyond the current connotations of what is assumed by the academic Master degree in the Anglo-Saxon culture.

 

I should add that it looks totally strange to me, from my cultural perspective, that terms like Guru, Expert, or Champion are felt to be more gender neutral than Master. Just count the number op publicly recognized female Gurus, Experts and Champions and compare them with the number of males who receive that public recognition, and you’ll see my point. What matters is, in my view, not that we change the words, but that we give them new meanings by changing the reality.

 

Jan

 

---

[Randy Fisher]

Hi All,

Another thought - there are WikiEducator instances in other languages.

If, folks for those wikis want to develop appropriate cultural phrases / meanings for the WikiApprentice / WikiMaster certification, of course they are welcome to do so!

It would be great to learn of their experiences, as shared with other linguistic cultural groups using WE.

- Randy

[Jorge Vidals]

Hi to everybody,

My suggestion is that WikiMaster title could be remain as a degree
obtained, and if you are man you will be a Wikimaster and if you are a
woman you will be a Wikimistress.

As Jan says, here in México people who teach something is called
"Maestra" if you are a woman or "Maestro" if you are a man. But the
degree that a teacher has gotten is a "Licenciatura en Educación" at
least for primary and secondary education. If you are Engineer,
Chemical or from another carreer and you teach in a University you are
a "Maestro" o "Maestra". The same apply for crafts and this is
thinking in "El maestro" or "La maestra" share his o her knowledge
with his or her pupils or apprentices.

I like all the great ideas that Wikieducators have given and I think
the workgroup which is working on Wikimaster certification need to
take in account that our community is not only in English, Spanish or
German; there are others instances comming up and many others will be
formed in the future. And I think every body in the world know what
Master means and how will be named if the person who have the title is
a woman or a man.

If WikiMaster were changed for another word as WikiChampion (for me
sounds as a sport title) or WikiGurú (a wise man for me) for example,
the workgroup need to choose a word which describe all the work
required to get that title and the steps required to achieve this
knowledge. Another issue is that WikiArtisan degree will be required
to be changed not for gender but for to be in accordance with the new
title.

My last thinking: in spanish when somebody made something with mastery
is called "con maestria" and this term is a female gender and men
do'nt disagree with that word despite in my country there are a lot of
"macho" men.

Warm regards

Jorge

> <patri...@oerfoundation.org> wrote:
>
> It is really interesting to follow all the different views and for me
> personally, there are seveal aspects that seems to ring true. They are:
>
> 1. While I think Carol has a point in pointing out the gender specific word
> "Master", there are several thoughts I have I would like to share:
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Sebastian Panakal
>

> <sebastianpana...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am watching the variety of ideas, interesting discussions and the enjoying
> thrill of being in WE community. Let there be more. I have not made up my
> mind yet...
>

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Randy Fisher <wikira...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am pleased to see the diversity and breadth of discussion - and many new
> voices.
>
> It is a credit to our mutual efforts, that WikiEducator and OER are reaching
> more and more people, and providing opportunities for substantive discourse
> and content creation, and sharing.
>
> Bravo!
>
> - Randy
>

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 5:15 AM, minh mcCloy <mizm...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have often used the criteria of novice, apprentice, journeyman, master
> with k-6 kids in the context of skill acquisition. Not once has either the
> master or journeyMAN been an issue with the kids- they don't see it.
> Sometimes however a visiting adult will impose their acquired prejudice on
> the kids & insist on discussing/commenting on the practice. It induces a lot
> of shrugging in the kids as the attempt to see what issue is there.
>
> It is my feminism that makes me want claim words that are useful or stylish
> or quaint or incongruous for general use. On the other hand I have a real
> fondness for the word aviatrix - so singular, so little opportunity to use
> it. But if I could aviate I think I would call myself an aviatrix :D - &
> thus declare my mastery of the skies - me & Amelia Erheart.
>
> :)
>
> minh
>

> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 6:45 PM, MALLAMIBRO <mallami...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> With due respect to all the female members of WE, i feel the
> WikiMaster conveys the intended meaning for that level of attainment.
> Ibrahim Oyekanmi
>

> ...
>
> leer más »

[victor mensah]

Thanks Jorge,

 

Very sound points worth deliberating on. Will give more comments as soon as practicable.

 

regards,

Victor.

On 29 July 2010 03:43, <wikieducat...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

  Today's Topic Summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator/topics

• Nomenclature for WikiMaster [1 Update]

 Topic: Nomenclature for WikiMaster

Jorge Vidals <j_vi...@yahoo.com.mx> Jul 28 03:23AM -0700 ^

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