embedding slideshare presentations?
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josh underwood
Jun 25, 2008, 11:23:18 AM6/25/08
to WikiEducator
Hi All,
Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
embed presentations hosted on http://www.slideshare.net in
WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
contributing it to our library at http://d4tel.blogspot.com
We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhanced_Learning_For_Rural_Livelihoods
josh underwood
researcher, www.lkl.ac.uk
Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
embed presentations hosted on http://www.slideshare.net in
WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
contributing it to our library at http://d4tel.blogspot.com
We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhanced_Learning_For_Rural_Livelihoods
josh underwood
researcher, www.lkl.ac.uk
Randy Fisher
Jun 25, 2008, 11:56:39 AM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi All,
I am interested in the answer to the slideshare question as well - and any info about copyright.
Also, what if the presentation includes images such as clipart from Microsoft, or pix from somewhere else - how is this handled?
- Randy--
________________
Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to Improve Performance.
* Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and WikiEducator!
+ 1 604.684.2275
wiki...@gmail.com
www.wikieducator.org
www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher
Skype: wikirandy
I am interested in the answer to the slideshare question as well - and any info about copyright.
Also, what if the presentation includes images such as clipart from Microsoft, or pix from somewhere else - how is this handled?
- Randy
________________
Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to Improve Performance.
* Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and WikiEducator!
+ 1 604.684.2275
wiki...@gmail.com
www.wikieducator.org
www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher
Skype: wikirandy
Minhaaj ur Rehman
Jun 25, 2008, 1:06:27 PM6/25/08
to WikiEducator
As far as i know, Kalutra is being supported at the moment. Slideshare
would be great tool to have in WE. If its already there, i would like
to know how to use it, if not, can we incorporate it in WE ? thanks
for bringing this up Josh.
On Jun 25, 9:56 pm, "Randy Fisher" <wikira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am interested in the answer to the slideshare question as well - and any
> info about copyright.
>
> Also, what if the presentation includes images such as clipart from
> Microsoft, or pix from somewhere else - how is this handled?
>
> - Randy
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:23 AM, josh underwood <josh.underw...@gmail.com>
>
> > josh underwood
> > researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk
>
> Skype: wikirandy
would be great tool to have in WE. If its already there, i would like
to know how to use it, if not, can we incorporate it in WE ? thanks
for bringing this up Josh.
On Jun 25, 9:56 pm, "Randy Fisher" <wikira...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I am interested in the answer to the slideshare question as well - and any
> info about copyright.
>
> Also, what if the presentation includes images such as clipart from
> Microsoft, or pix from somewhere else - how is this handled?
>
> - Randy
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> > embed presentations hosted onhttp://www.slideshare.netin
> > WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
>
> > Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> > enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
> > contributing it to our library athttp://d4tel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> > embed presentations hosted onhttp://www.slideshare.netin
> > WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
>
> > Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> > enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
>
> > We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> > for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
> >http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhan...
> > We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> > for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
>
> > josh underwood
> > researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk
>
> --
> ________________
> Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to Improve
> Performance.
> * Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and
> WikiEducator!
>
> + 1 604.684.2275
> wikira...@gmail.comwww.wikieducator.orgwww.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher
> --
> ________________
> Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to Improve
> Performance.
> * Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and
> WikiEducator!
>
> + 1 604.684.2275
>
> Skype: wikirandy
Wayne
Jun 25, 2008, 3:26:23 PM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Josh --
Yip this is the right place to ask the question. Slideshare is an impressive technology and there are Mediawiki extensions available to embed Slideshare content in a Mediawiki installation.
The reason WikiEducator does not implement solutions like the Slideshare extensions are based on our values and commitment to the free cultural works definition. All our server technology must run on open source software and we extend this commitment to the embedding of third party media services. So for example, we do not embed the Youtube extension, but do support the Kaltura extension because the Company has committed to releasing all its software as open source.
There is a promising solution in the pipeline called Webpresent (http://chameleon.uwc.ac.za/app/ ) --- This technology runs entirely on open source software with the added capability to host online web sessions. Moreover, the technology encourages remixing and sharing by converting all slide show formats into free file formats.
Hope this helps --- in the mean time the best we can do is link to a presentation uploaded on Slideshare.
Cheers
Wayne
Yip this is the right place to ask the question. Slideshare is an impressive technology and there are Mediawiki extensions available to embed Slideshare content in a Mediawiki installation.
The reason WikiEducator does not implement solutions like the Slideshare extensions are based on our values and commitment to the free cultural works definition. All our server technology must run on open source software and we extend this commitment to the embedding of third party media services. So for example, we do not embed the Youtube extension, but do support the Kaltura extension because the Company has committed to releasing all its software as open source.
There is a promising solution in the pipeline called Webpresent (http://chameleon.uwc.ac.za/app/ ) --- This technology runs entirely on open source software with the added capability to host online web sessions. Moreover, the technology encourages remixing and sharing by converting all slide show formats into free file formats.
Hope this helps --- in the mean time the best we can do is link to a presentation uploaded on Slideshare.
Cheers
Wayne
Wayne
Jun 25, 2008, 4:02:11 PM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Randy,
The issue of copyright with images included in slide show is not entirely straight forward. I must preface that I am not a lawyer and my answers are based on practical experience. So don't take this a legal advisory.
Typically slide shows are designed for use in the face-to-face classroom situation. As such there is more flexibility in the use of copyrighted material under the fair use doctrine in the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use ) or Fair Dealing in most commonwealth countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing ). This doctrines regulate the exceptions to copyright and vary from country to country.
Things start changing when you upload slide shows to public websites like WikiEducator --- and it is my interpretation that Fair Dealing would not cover the use of all rights reserved copyright resources on WikiEducator. For example, a business entrepreneur in the Cameroon may decide to package a study guide from WikiEducator resources in print format and distribute these in Country for profit. In this scenario -- the entrepreneur would not be protected under fair dealing.
Microsoft Clip art is Copyrighted material which does not meet the requirements of the free cultural works definition. For example, you would legally need to hold a Microsoft "End-User License Agreement" to have permission for personal use of the clip art as defined by the terms of the license agreement. (see: http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/permissions/default.mspx ). Furthermore, there is a non-commerical restriction on Microsoft clip art -- which means we can't use this in WikiEducator.
By way of practical example -- I am an Ubuntu GNU/Linux User -- therefore at home I would not be legally allowed to use Microsoft Clipart -- because I do not have a legitimate "End-User License Agreement" -- the same applies to Microsoft fonts. However, at the office I would legally be permitted to use the clip art by virtue of the Corporate licence that COL holds for its staff. So for example, I would be legal in the office -- but technically speaking working at home on my personal machine (which also runs Ubuntu <smile>) . That said, I only use resources which meet the free cultural works definition.
Insofar as WE is concerned -- we may only use content that meets the requirements of the free cultural works definition.
Apology for the long and complicated response -- but its a complex topic.
Cheers
Wayne
The issue of copyright with images included in slide show is not entirely straight forward. I must preface that I am not a lawyer and my answers are based on practical experience. So don't take this a legal advisory.
Typically slide shows are designed for use in the face-to-face classroom situation. As such there is more flexibility in the use of copyrighted material under the fair use doctrine in the US (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use ) or Fair Dealing in most commonwealth countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing ). This doctrines regulate the exceptions to copyright and vary from country to country.
Things start changing when you upload slide shows to public websites like WikiEducator --- and it is my interpretation that Fair Dealing would not cover the use of all rights reserved copyright resources on WikiEducator. For example, a business entrepreneur in the Cameroon may decide to package a study guide from WikiEducator resources in print format and distribute these in Country for profit. In this scenario -- the entrepreneur would not be protected under fair dealing.
Microsoft Clip art is Copyrighted material which does not meet the requirements of the free cultural works definition. For example, you would legally need to hold a Microsoft "End-User License Agreement" to have permission for personal use of the clip art as defined by the terms of the license agreement. (see: http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/permissions/default.mspx ). Furthermore, there is a non-commerical restriction on Microsoft clip art -- which means we can't use this in WikiEducator.
By way of practical example -- I am an Ubuntu GNU/Linux User -- therefore at home I would not be legally allowed to use Microsoft Clipart -- because I do not have a legitimate "End-User License Agreement" -- the same applies to Microsoft fonts. However, at the office I would legally be permitted to use the clip art by virtue of the Corporate licence that COL holds for its staff. So for example, I would be legal in the office -- but technically speaking working at home on my personal machine (which also runs Ubuntu <smile>) . That said, I only use resources which meet the free cultural works definition.
Insofar as WE is concerned -- we may only use content that meets the requirements of the free cultural works definition.
Apology for the long and complicated response -- but its a complex topic.
Cheers
Wayne
Leigh Blackall
Jun 25, 2008, 6:25:29 PM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I must say that the responses to Josh and Minhaaj's requests are disappointing so far, and this issue remains unresolved for me from so long ago. Josh and Minhaaj, there is passionate history to this request. Try searching the email list archive for "embedding 3rd party media". I hope you are as concerned as I am by this, were as before I seemed to be on my own. Here I go again, spured on by the fresh requests. Get ready for a heavy email...
The copyright and free content response doesn't work:
Kaltura and copyright. Anyone can load ANY Youtube movie into Kaltura. As we know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so for all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has ACTUALLY been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate to Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to Wikieducator!
Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or standard/popular) formats.
Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
The 'only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:
As I've tried to point out, while Kaltura is open source and potentially exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip, Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on Wikieducator:
--
--
Leigh Blackall
+64(0)21736539
skype - leigh_blackall
SL - Leroy Goalpost
http://learnonline.wordpress.com
The copyright and free content response doesn't work:
Kaltura and copyright. Anyone can load ANY Youtube movie into Kaltura. As we know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so for all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has ACTUALLY been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate to Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to Wikieducator!
Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or standard/popular) formats.
Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
The 'only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:
As I've tried to point out, while Kaltura is open source and potentially exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip, Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on Wikieducator:
- http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall = Blip movies loading via RSS feed. Note that the Blip player is Flash9 and is not strictly free. However, Blip cross uploads to Archive.org where they transcode to strictly free formats, so it is often possible to find a copy of a Blip movie on Archive.org. I haven't yet worked out how to embed Archive media into Wikied.
- http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall/sandpit = Youtube and Slideshare content embedded into Wikied. Note that its not perfect, and not that easy either. Welcome any Wiki hackers to make it good. Also note, that I don't endorse the use of Youtube movies because they do not support free licensing, but Kaltura does accept Youtube, so I guess the Wikieducator ethics are flexible sometimes.
--
Leigh Blackall
+64(0)21736539
skype - leigh_blackall
SL - Leroy Goalpost
http://learnonline.wordpress.com
Minhaaj ur Rehman
Jun 25, 2008, 6:47:57 PM6/25/08
to WikiEducator
Leigh very thought full arguments must say. Since you've brought this
up, its my time to get rid of my stage fear. I have also been against
copyrights. I believe and respect WE's open source oriented thinking
and given the discussion and arguments you've put forward leigh there
is not much left for me to say. I strongly support incorporating
slideshare into WE. I believe there are no legal consequences
whatsoever and if there are, its about time we must look into it.
There might be a way. As much as i would like to see every technology
on earth copyright or left used to serve free education, i know its
not possible (thanks to greedy corporations), but there are somethings
we can do, slideshare being one of them.
I am on your side in this debate Leigh. We need to bully Wayne
here :)
On Jun 26, 4:25 am, "Leigh Blackall" <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I must say that the responses to Josh and Minhaaj's requests are
> disappointing so far, and this issue remains unresolved for me from so long
> ago. Josh and Minhaaj, there is passionate history to this request. Try
> searching the email list archive for "embedding 3rd party media". I hope you
> are as concerned as I am by this, were as before I seemed to be on my own.
> Here I go again, spured on by the fresh requests. Get ready for a heavy
> email...
>
> *The copyright and free content response doesn't work:*
> case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:*
> > commonwealth countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing). This
> > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:23 AM, josh underwood <josh.underw...@gmail.com>
>
> > josh underwood
> > researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?b9EVjhuphpdIL6zBYQsCzAQsLCM0hVk_JJP...>
> >www.wikieducator.org<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?ICzBd5VB5ASOYqenPhOqejhO-r01695puwT...>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
up, its my time to get rid of my stage fear. I have also been against
copyrights. I believe and respect WE's open source oriented thinking
and given the discussion and arguments you've put forward leigh there
is not much left for me to say. I strongly support incorporating
slideshare into WE. I believe there are no legal consequences
whatsoever and if there are, its about time we must look into it.
There might be a way. As much as i would like to see every technology
on earth copyright or left used to serve free education, i know its
not possible (thanks to greedy corporations), but there are somethings
we can do, slideshare being one of them.
I am on your side in this debate Leigh. We need to bully Wayne
here :)
On Jun 26, 4:25 am, "Leigh Blackall" <leighblack...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I must say that the responses to Josh and Minhaaj's requests are
> disappointing so far, and this issue remains unresolved for me from so long
> ago. Josh and Minhaaj, there is passionate history to this request. Try
> searching the email list archive for "embedding 3rd party media". I hope you
> are as concerned as I am by this, were as before I seemed to be on my own.
> Here I go again, spured on by the fresh requests. Get ready for a heavy
> email...
>
> Kaltura and copyright. Anyone can load ANY Youtube movie into Kaltura. As we
> know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so for
> all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has ACTUALLY
> been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate to
> Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video
> publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for
> example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them
> into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that
> later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would
> have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to
> Wikieducator!
>
> Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables
> people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to
> download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its
> been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or
> standard/popular) formats.
>
> Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS
> copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services
> and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a
> breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to
> attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
>
> *The 'only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the
> know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so for
> all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has ACTUALLY
> been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate to
> Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video
> publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for
> example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them
> into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that
> later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would
> have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to
> Wikieducator!
>
> Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables
> people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to
> download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its
> been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or
> standard/popular) formats.
>
> Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS
> copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services
> and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a
> breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to
> attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
>
> case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:*
> As I've tried to point out, while Kaltura is open source and potentially
> exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious
> ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful
> educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not
> want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source
> purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip,
> Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
>
> On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download
> of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free
> transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use
> (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they
> offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the
> functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I
> think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable
> middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
>
> Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not
> compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually
> copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle
> it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights
> with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we
> will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
>
> Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on
> Wikieducator:
>
> 1.http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall= Blip movies loading
> exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious
> ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful
> educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not
> want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source
> purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip,
> Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
>
> On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download
> of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free
> transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use
> (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they
> offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the
> functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I
> think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable
> middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
>
> Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not
> compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually
> copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle
> it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights
> with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we
> will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
>
> Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on
> Wikieducator:
>
> via RSS feed. Note that the Blip player is Flash9 and is not strictly free.
> However, Blip cross uploads to Archive.org where they transcode to strictly
> free formats, so it is often possible to find a copy of a Blip movie on
> Archive.org. I haven't yet worked out how to embed Archive media into
> Wikied.
> 2.http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Leighblackall/sandpit= Youtube and
> However, Blip cross uploads to Archive.org where they transcode to strictly
> free formats, so it is often possible to find a copy of a Blip movie on
> Archive.org. I haven't yet worked out how to embed Archive media into
> Wikied.
> Slideshare content embedded into Wikied. Note that its not perfect, and not
> that easy either. Welcome any Wiki hackers to make it good. Also note, that
> I don't endorse the use of Youtube movies because they do not support free
> licensing, but Kaltura does accept Youtube, so I guess the Wikieducator
> ethics are flexible sometimes.
>
> that easy either. Welcome any Wiki hackers to make it good. Also note, that
> I don't endorse the use of Youtube movies because they do not support free
> licensing, but Kaltura does accept Youtube, so I guess the Wikieducator
> ethics are flexible sometimes.
>
> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Wayne <wmackint...@col.org> wrote:
> > Hi Randy,
>
> > The issue of copyright with images included in slide show is not entirely
> > straight forward. I must preface that I am not a lawyer and my answers are
> > based on practical experience. So don't take this a legal advisory.
>
> > Typically slide shows are designed for use in the face-to-face classroom
> > situation. As such there is more flexibility in the use of copyrighted
> > material under the fair use doctrine in the US (
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use) or Fair Dealing in most
> > Hi Randy,
>
> > The issue of copyright with images included in slide show is not entirely
> > straight forward. I must preface that I am not a lawyer and my answers are
> > based on practical experience. So don't take this a legal advisory.
>
> > Typically slide shows are designed for use in the face-to-face classroom
> > situation. As such there is more flexibility in the use of copyrighted
> > material under the fair use doctrine in the US (
> > commonwealth countries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing). This
> > wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> > embed presentations hosted onhttp://www.slideshare.net<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?1pd7aqbPab9JBUQsLCzAQsCzBYS02Ev93W4...>in
>
> > Hi All,
>
> > Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> > WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
>
> > Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> > enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
> > contributing it to our library athttp://d4tel.blogspot.com<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?ICzBd5VB5ASOYqenPhOqejhO-r01EcjY_y1...>
>
> > Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> > enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
>
> > We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> > for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
> >http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhan...<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?5AQsFELcEICSnzhO-qejhOqenPo08N8HbQ6...>
> > We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> > for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
>
> > josh underwood
> > researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?b9EVjhuphpdIL6zBYQsCzAQsLCM0hVk_JJP...>
>
> > --
> > ________________
> > Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to
> > Improve Performance.
> > * Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and
> > WikiEducator!
>
> > + 1 604.684.2275
> > wikira...@gmail.com
> > --
> > ________________
> > Randy Fisher - Facilitating Change, Connections and Collaboration to
> > Improve Performance.
> > * Engaging People in Teams, Communities and Organizations....and
> > WikiEducator!
>
> > + 1 604.684.2275
> >www.wikieducator.org<http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?ICzBd5VB5ASOYqenPhOqejhO-r01695puwT...>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Wayne
Jun 25, 2008, 7:53:16 PM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hey, Leigh, Minhaaj
Leigh always packs a solid and compelling argument. I also don't mind being bullied a little.
A more thoughtful response will follow shortly. I have a ferry to catch.
Cheers
Wayne
Leigh always packs a solid and compelling argument. I also don't mind being bullied a little.
A more thoughtful response will follow shortly. I have a ferry to catch.
Cheers
Wayne
Chris Harvey
Jun 25, 2008, 9:39:02 PM6/25/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Why dont we just use ogghandler
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OggHandler
And for people that want to use non-free content and non-free flash players we can just make a template that links to the other stuff.
Kaltura is not open source, I wonder if the WE community was even asked whether to use it or not?
Apart from that, the things leigh suggests, just make more work. Using ogghandler is clearly the best solution. Wikipedia uses ogghandler and at least they never exclude people who use free software like WE does.
Just upload your videos/presentations in ogg format.
Warm regards
Chris
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:OggHandler
And for people that want to use non-free content and non-free flash players we can just make a template that links to the other stuff.
Kaltura is not open source, I wonder if the WE community was even asked whether to use it or not?
Apart from that, the things leigh suggests, just make more work. Using ogghandler is clearly the best solution. Wikipedia uses ogghandler and at least they never exclude people who use free software like WE does.
Just upload your videos/presentations in ogg format.
Warm regards
Chris
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 3:37:16 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Leigh, Minhaaj, Chris and friends
Gee -- I got my work cut out for me in responding to all these issues in what is a complex debate. That said, the thing I respect most about the WE family is our open and transparent dialogue -- we may not agree all of the time -- but when the going gets tough we talk! Apology for the long post -- but there are important values and issues that I am obligated to chat about.
When WIkiEducator started - there was one account user, me. We started as a community of association. I made a promise to all new account holders that that WikiEducator would always be free. Today we have 4200 users, and I've extended that promise to every new account holder and I don't intend to renege on my commitments or fiduciary responsibilities to the community. I grew up in South Africa , and arguably I have an overly sensitised view on the value of freedom -- for example:
* As a young boy, I personally witnessed multiple instances of police brutality where black South Africans were assaulted by the then South African police because they were not caring a "pass book" in terms of the Pass Law Act aimed to restrict and control the movement of non white citizens in South Africa.
* Through my work in the independent schools movement through the Catholic education system, I learned of hundreds of our schools -- mostly rural mission schools been --- that were shut down by the Apartheid regime in 1952. Simply because we were providing education to black children;
* When I was authoring my Masters degree -- I was not permitted to cite any works of Paulo Freire because this was baned literature at the time. So Pedagogy of the Oppressed was strictly out of bounds unless you were prepared to spend a few years being incarcerated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire )
* As a teenager -- I grew up on Reggae Music and I recall returning from France, somewhat stressed at immigration with a banned vinyl LP record recorded by Tapa Zukie -- Why? Because there was a track on this album on the life of Steve Biko, an anti-apartheid activist in South Africa who died in police custody in 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko ).
I have witnessed and experienced abuse of freedom (as many others around the world) and perhaps I place too high a priority on freedom?
In my professional career there have been numerous instances where I have risked my job security because of freedom of expression. Throughout my career I have been challenged because of my values associated with freedom of speech and the use of free software. It has not been an easy road and very often a lonely road -- but I wouldn't change it for the world! When the going gets tough, I have drawn inspiration from the "guru" leaders, for example:
* Mahatma Gandhi -- who incidentally faced racial discrimination in South Africa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi ) and on his return to India played an instrumental role in liberating India from Colonial rule.
* Archbiship Emeritus Desmond Tutu, who played an instrumental role in liberating South Africa. I encoure members of the list to view this short video clip of Bishop Tutu on freedom in education -- http://wikieducator.org/Archbiship_Emeritus_Desmond_Tutu_on_the_importance_of_freedom
* Of course Madiba (Nelson Mandela) has influenced my world view considerably. Do take a look at the Ubunty: Spirit of Humanity video linked on Minhaaj's page -http://wikieducator.org/User:Minhaaj
Leigh, I'm not sure that I agree with your contentions that the "copyright and free content response doesn't work" and "only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the case, and doesn't stack up against educational values".
I must confess that my views on freedom have been informed/ biased by my own life experiences and perhaps I err on the conservative side of the freedom culture.
I'm know that that we have a diverse range of opinion starting from the free software purists to educators who don't give a dam about copyright or free software. I'm also suspect that WikiEducator's stance in support free software has probably stunned our rate of growth in the short term, but that we will be a stronger project in the long term.
Chris, you are right in pointing out that Kaltura has not uploaded all its code as open source just yet -- but the company has made a public commitment that all their source code will be released as open source. WIkiEducator's decision to find an acceptable solution was largely in response to Leigh's compelling demands for rich media content and the release of this implementation was announced to the community prior to the time without any objection. Sure, there will be folk who are not happy with all our decisions -- but we do our best within the value structure of our community.
I think that our commitment to the freedom philosophy will pay long term dividends. Consider for example:
* David Wiley's reflections on an academic who considers that students taking notes may infringe on his IP rights ( http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/482 )
* The revised copyright legislation in Canada -- do read Brian Lamb's post of 17 June 2008 - "Copyright follies redux; can we afford to treat openness as a luxury? -- http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/brian/archives/2008_06.php
Our commitment to the free cultural works definition enables us to collaborate with the Wikimedia Foundation on core technologies like wiki ==> print. I can assure, that absence of our commitment to the freedom culture -- collaborations like this with a top ten website would not be possible.
Hope this adds value to our discussions.
Cheers
Wayne
Gee -- I got my work cut out for me in responding to all these issues in what is a complex debate. That said, the thing I respect most about the WE family is our open and transparent dialogue -- we may not agree all of the time -- but when the going gets tough we talk! Apology for the long post -- but there are important values and issues that I am obligated to chat about.
When WIkiEducator started - there was one account user, me. We started as a community of association. I made a promise to all new account holders that that WikiEducator would always be free. Today we have 4200 users, and I've extended that promise to every new account holder and I don't intend to renege on my commitments or fiduciary responsibilities to the community. I grew up in South Africa , and arguably I have an overly sensitised view on the value of freedom -- for example:
* As a young boy, I personally witnessed multiple instances of police brutality where black South Africans were assaulted by the then South African police because they were not caring a "pass book" in terms of the Pass Law Act aimed to restrict and control the movement of non white citizens in South Africa.
* Through my work in the independent schools movement through the Catholic education system, I learned of hundreds of our schools -- mostly rural mission schools been --- that were shut down by the Apartheid regime in 1952. Simply because we were providing education to black children;
* When I was authoring my Masters degree -- I was not permitted to cite any works of Paulo Freire because this was baned literature at the time. So Pedagogy of the Oppressed was strictly out of bounds unless you were prepared to spend a few years being incarcerated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire )
* As a teenager -- I grew up on Reggae Music and I recall returning from France, somewhat stressed at immigration with a banned vinyl LP record recorded by Tapa Zukie -- Why? Because there was a track on this album on the life of Steve Biko, an anti-apartheid activist in South Africa who died in police custody in 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko ).
I have witnessed and experienced abuse of freedom (as many others around the world) and perhaps I place too high a priority on freedom?
In my professional career there have been numerous instances where I have risked my job security because of freedom of expression. Throughout my career I have been challenged because of my values associated with freedom of speech and the use of free software. It has not been an easy road and very often a lonely road -- but I wouldn't change it for the world! When the going gets tough, I have drawn inspiration from the "guru" leaders, for example:
* Mahatma Gandhi -- who incidentally faced racial discrimination in South Africa ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi ) and on his return to India played an instrumental role in liberating India from Colonial rule.
* Archbiship Emeritus Desmond Tutu, who played an instrumental role in liberating South Africa. I encoure members of the list to view this short video clip of Bishop Tutu on freedom in education -- http://wikieducator.org/Archbiship_Emeritus_Desmond_Tutu_on_the_importance_of_freedom
* Of course Madiba (Nelson Mandela) has influenced my world view considerably. Do take a look at the Ubunty: Spirit of Humanity video linked on Minhaaj's page -http://wikieducator.org/User:Minhaaj
Leigh, I'm not sure that I agree with your contentions that the "copyright and free content response doesn't work" and "only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the case, and doesn't stack up against educational values".
I must confess that my views on freedom have been informed/ biased by my own life experiences and perhaps I err on the conservative side of the freedom culture.
I'm know that that we have a diverse range of opinion starting from the free software purists to educators who don't give a dam about copyright or free software. I'm also suspect that WikiEducator's stance in support free software has probably stunned our rate of growth in the short term, but that we will be a stronger project in the long term.
Chris, you are right in pointing out that Kaltura has not uploaded all its code as open source just yet -- but the company has made a public commitment that all their source code will be released as open source. WIkiEducator's decision to find an acceptable solution was largely in response to Leigh's compelling demands for rich media content and the release of this implementation was announced to the community prior to the time without any objection. Sure, there will be folk who are not happy with all our decisions -- but we do our best within the value structure of our community.
I think that our commitment to the freedom philosophy will pay long term dividends. Consider for example:
* David Wiley's reflections on an academic who considers that students taking notes may infringe on his IP rights ( http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/482 )
* The revised copyright legislation in Canada -- do read Brian Lamb's post of 17 June 2008 - "Copyright follies redux; can we afford to treat openness as a luxury? -- http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/brian/archives/2008_06.php
Our commitment to the free cultural works definition enables us to collaborate with the Wikimedia Foundation on core technologies like wiki ==> print. I can assure, that absence of our commitment to the freedom culture -- collaborations like this with a top ten website would not be possible.
Hope this adds value to our discussions.
Cheers
Wayne
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 3:43:20 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 10:25 +1200, Leigh Blackall wrote:
Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
Hey Leigh -- Isn't this stretching the argument a little too far :-).
How did the content get into the 3rd party media site in the first place? Is that copying or some other process?
When you upload a Kaltura the author is requested to confirm a CC-BY-SA license. I think we are also missing the an important point here, namely the ability to "edit" video collaboratively online -- that's pretty COOL.
Cheers
WAyne
How did the content get into the 3rd party media site in the first place? Is that copying or some other process?
When you upload a Kaltura the author is requested to confirm a CC-BY-SA license. I think we are also missing the an important point here, namely the ability to "edit" video collaboratively online -- that's pretty COOL.
Cheers
WAyne
Brent
Jun 26, 2008, 4:08:50 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I don't think that this argument is valid. Embedding a Slideshare video doesn't require us using any proprietary code on our server and extending this to third parties in this way doesn't seem right to me ... its over-extending a bit don't you think? By this argument we should also not allow any content that anyone (third party) has authored in Word, because its proprietary. Slideshare content as Leigh has pointed out can be licensed CC-By-SA, the source can often be downloaded and edited in open formats. If anything we should possibly be more accomodating to this practice than Kultura, which has a proprietary playback format in Flash (as does Slideshare but with access to the source document),and has little facility for downloading the original files that make up the aggregate in any usable format (unlike Slideshare), and ... arguably has more short-term educational value than Kultura.
Freedom is a double edged sword; too many instances of people killed to get it, who then kill to keep it.
brent.
--
--------------------------------
http://digitalsynapse.co.nz
http://greymatter.co.nz
--------------------------------
Freedom is a double edged sword; too many instances of people killed to get it, who then kill to keep it.
brent.
--------------------------------
http://digitalsynapse.co.nz
http://greymatter.co.nz
--------------------------------
Chris Harvey
Jun 26, 2008, 5:29:58 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I don't think that this argument is valid. Embedding a Slideshare video doesn't require us using any proprietary code on our server
How do you watch the videos on your server?
If anything we should possibly be more accomodating to this practice than Kultura, which has a proprietary playback format in Flash
Im not sure about all the flash videos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Video
Until version 9 update 2 of the Flash Player, Flash Video referred to a proprietary file format, having the extension FLV.
Warm regards
Chris Harvey
Chris Harvey
Jun 26, 2008, 5:32:37 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Thank you for sharing your story Wayne, hopefully I can write something more meaningful like this soon.
Regards
Chris
Regards
Chris
Minhaaj ur Rehman
Jun 26, 2008, 8:08:01 AM6/26/08
to WikiEducator
Very inspirational story Wayne. I must say, people like you are the
change agents of miracles. I can see how your experiences have shaped
your love for free education and FOSS. I appreciate that and respect
that. I on the other side, forgive me for being one of the academics
who speak out against copyright. My own corporate research website has
no copyrights at all. Like your talk pages says i have some biases
too, like, i am all for free open source education, universally for
everyone and nothing can change my views on that. I do support using
every technology that can assist this goal but i respect your views
being the founder and dedicated educator. Let the force be with WE.
On Jun 26, 3:32 pm, "Chris Harvey" <gnuch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for sharing your story Wayne, hopefully I can write something more
> meaningful like this soon.
>
> Regards
> Chris
>
> > South Africa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi) and on his
> > as a luxury? --http://weblogs.elearning.ubc.ca/brian/archives/2008_06.php
> > case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:*
>
> ...
>
> read more »
change agents of miracles. I can see how your experiences have shaped
your love for free education and FOSS. I appreciate that and respect
that. I on the other side, forgive me for being one of the academics
who speak out against copyright. My own corporate research website has
no copyrights at all. Like your talk pages says i have some biases
too, like, i am all for free open source education, universally for
everyone and nothing can change my views on that. I do support using
every technology that can assist this goal but i respect your views
being the founder and dedicated educator. Let the force be with WE.
On Jun 26, 3:32 pm, "Chris Harvey" <gnuch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for sharing your story Wayne, hopefully I can write something more
> meaningful like this soon.
>
> Regards
> Chris
>
> > return to India played an instrumental role in liberating India from
> > Colonial rule.
> > * Archbiship Emeritus Desmond Tutu, who played an instrumental role in
> > liberating South Africa. I encoure members of the list to view this short
> > video clip of Bishop Tutu on freedom in education --
> >http://wikieducator.org/Archbiship_Emeritus_Desmond_Tutu_on_the_impor...
> > Colonial rule.
> > * Archbiship Emeritus Desmond Tutu, who played an instrumental role in
> > liberating South Africa. I encoure members of the list to view this short
> > video clip of Bishop Tutu on freedom in education --
>
> > Our commitment to the free cultural works definition enables us to
> > collaborate with the Wikimedia Foundation on core technologies like wiki ==>
> > print. I can assure, that absence of our commitment to the freedom culture
> > -- collaborations like this with a top ten website would not be possible.
>
> > Hope this adds value to our discussions.
>
> > Cheers
> > Wayne
>
> > On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 10:25 +1200, Leigh Blackall wrote:
>
> > I must say that the responses to Josh and Minhaaj's requests are
> > disappointing so far, and this issue remains unresolved for me from so long
> > ago. Josh and Minhaaj, there is passionate history to this request. Try
> > searching the email list archive for "embedding 3rd party media". I hope you
> > are as concerned as I am by this, were as before I seemed to be on my own.
> > Here I go again, spured on by the fresh requests. Get ready for a heavy
> > email...
>
> > *The copyright and free content response doesn't work:*
> > Our commitment to the free cultural works definition enables us to
> > collaborate with the Wikimedia Foundation on core technologies like wiki ==>
> > print. I can assure, that absence of our commitment to the freedom culture
> > -- collaborations like this with a top ten website would not be possible.
>
> > Hope this adds value to our discussions.
>
> > Cheers
> > Wayne
>
> > On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 10:25 +1200, Leigh Blackall wrote:
>
> > I must say that the responses to Josh and Minhaaj's requests are
> > disappointing so far, and this issue remains unresolved for me from so long
> > ago. Josh and Minhaaj, there is passionate history to this request. Try
> > searching the email list archive for "embedding 3rd party media". I hope you
> > are as concerned as I am by this, were as before I seemed to be on my own.
> > Here I go again, spured on by the fresh requests. Get ready for a heavy
> > email...
>
> > Kaltura and copyright. Anyone can load ANY Youtube movie into Kaltura. As
> > we know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so
> > for all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has
> > ACTUALLY been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate
> > to Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video
> > publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for
> > example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them
> > into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that
> > later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would
> > have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to
> > Wikieducator!
>
> > Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables
> > people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to
> > download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its
> > been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or
> > standard/popular) formats.
>
> > Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS
> > copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services
> > and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a
> > breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to
> > attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
>
> > *The 'only use open source software' is sometimes too limiting. isn't the
> > we know, Youtube does not support user licensing like CreativeCommons, so
> > for all we know there is already a plethora of non free video that has
> > ACTUALLY been loaded onto Wikieducator (or the Kaltura servers that relate
> > to Wikied), if not, then there's nothing stopping it. Other popular video
> > publishing sites do support CC licensing (Blip.tv and Archive.org for
> > example, as does Slideshare), but we aren't able to load videos from them
> > into Kaltura, or embed them into the wiki directly officially (more on that
> > later). The irony is, that if I find free content on Blip or Archive I would
> > have to copy and load to Youtube before being able to bring them in to
> > Wikieducator!
>
> > Slideshare supports CreativeCommons, supports open formats, and enables
> > people to download the original source files. Kaltura does not enable me to
> > download the original source files, or the edited version (Yet - and its
> > been a long wait with no news), and does not support open (or
> > standard/popular) formats.
>
> > Embedding 3rd Party Media is not copying. Uploading media into Kaltura IS
> > copying. Embedding 3rd party media is explicitly encouraged by the services
> > and authors, where as copying them into Kaltura is not, and in my view IS a
> > breach of moral rights at least. Especially becuause it is not easy to
> > attribute original footage in Kaltura (credit titles are not good enough).
>
> > case, and doesn't stack up against educational values:*
> > As I've tried to point out, while Kaltura is open source and potentially
> > exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious
> > ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful
> > educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not
> > want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source
> > purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip,
> > Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
>
> > On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download
> > of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free
> > transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use
> > (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they
> > offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the
> > functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I
> > think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable
> > middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
>
> > Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not
> > compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually
> > copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle
> > it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights
> > with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we
> > will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
>
> > Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on
> > Wikieducator:
>
> > 1.
> > exciting software, it compromises the Wikieducator values in MORE serious
> > ways which impact on every user now. That said, Kaltura has wonderful
> > educational potential and for that reason I am glad we have it and would not
> > want to lose it. Kaltura is an acceptable middle ground between open source
> > purity and educational outcomes. The same can be said for Slideshare, Blip,
> > Archive, FlickrCC and other 3rd party media services.
>
> > On the open source front, Slideshare, Blip and Archive all enable download
> > of original source material, support free content licensing, and offer free
> > transcoding of uploaded media into open standard formats for us to use
> > (already more than what Kaltura offers). More importantly in my view, they
> > offer access to free content of outstanding educational value, plus the
> > functionality that many online teachers and learners have come to expect. I
> > think supporting 3rd party media that uses CC licensing is an acceptable
> > middle ground between open source purity and educational outcomes.
>
> > Supporting the EMBED (not upload or copy) of 3rd Party media will not
> > compromise the free content/free culture vision of Wikieducator. Actually
> > copying footage into Kaltura does. WIth regard to embedding, we will handle
> > it in a smart way. First we will embed. Then we will ask ensure copyrights
> > with the author. Then we will copy and upload content of high value. Then we
> > will make offline and low bandwidth versions.
>
> > Here are examples of Slideshare, Youtube and Blip content embedded on
> > Wikieducator:
>
>
> ...
>
> read more »
Erik Moeller
Jun 26, 2008, 11:22:03 AM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
One possible compromise might be to allow, by policy, the embedding of
external media from sites which
external media from sites which
- recognize free content metadata,
- make available source data.
This policy could be extended by process to upload copies of source
data to WikiEducator, to ensure that the content will survive even if
the embedded platforms don't - and to allow us to migrate the content
to open source technology when it becomes feasible to do so.
The risks of embedding are real: platforms have in the past changed
licenses of user-contributed content, added obnoxious advertising, or
simply gone out of business. We need to, as a minimum, retain the
ability to "take our content and leave" when we cooperate with such
services.
We all agree that having fully open source playback mechanisms for all
kinds of interactive content would be ideal, but it's correct that
this isn't even true for Kaltura right now -- it depends on Flash, and
doesn't run in the open source Flash players.
It would be interesting to see if Kaltura would qualify as an embedded
tool under such a policy -- and if it doesn't, we should talk to the
Kaltura folks about it (e.g. availability of source data).
Cheers,
Erik
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 12:23:23 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 20:08 +1200, Brent wrote:
Freedom is a double edged sword; too many instances of people killed to get it, who then kill to keep it.
Hey Brent -- that's very true and I do see the logic of your argument.
The issue of embedded 3rd party media is not a decision I can take on my own. The best I can do at this stage is to remain true to the commitments I have made until we get a proper community governance model in place and explore the strategic implications very carefully, for example the impact on future strategic partnerships etc. Clearly this will need to be one of the first tasks of the WE Council.
I do encourage everyone to take a look at the Draft Policy for Community Governance -- we have until 7 July to comment on this.
http://www.wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Policy_for_Community_Governance
The double edged sword will come into play when we host the first elections -- We currently do not have the means (financial and technical) to install an open source survey technology -- and we may need to rely on a proprietary service like survey monkey to administer the elections. Unless of course something from the community can help us out :-).
Cheers
Wayne
The issue of embedded 3rd party media is not a decision I can take on my own. The best I can do at this stage is to remain true to the commitments I have made until we get a proper community governance model in place and explore the strategic implications very carefully, for example the impact on future strategic partnerships etc. Clearly this will need to be one of the first tasks of the WE Council.
I do encourage everyone to take a look at the Draft Policy for Community Governance -- we have until 7 July to comment on this.
http://www.wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Policy_for_Community_Governance
The double edged sword will come into play when we host the first elections -- We currently do not have the means (financial and technical) to install an open source survey technology -- and we may need to rely on a proprietary service like survey monkey to administer the elections. Unless of course something from the community can help us out :-).
Cheers
Wayne
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 12:24:34 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hey Minaaj -- I'm just a teacher with a passion for education, but thanks for the kind works <blush>.
Cheers
Wayne
Cheers
Wayne
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 12:25:30 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Chris --
Surfing your blog and contributions to the list -- I'm suspect that you have an interesting story to tell.
Cheers
Wayne
Surfing your blog and contributions to the list -- I'm suspect that you have an interesting story to tell.
Cheers
Wayne
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 12:30:18 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Erik,
I think this is a productive compromise. We should table these ideas for the first WE council to research and decide on the best way forward.
I agree with you that we would need a solid policy before implementation. I suspect that there will be long and productive discussions :-).
Cheers
Wayne
I think this is a productive compromise. We should table these ideas for the first WE council to research and decide on the best way forward.
I agree with you that we would need a solid policy before implementation. I suspect that there will be long and productive discussions :-).
Cheers
Wayne
Leigh Blackall
Jun 26, 2008, 6:35:59 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I think Eric's suggestion is a good one.
Wayne
Jun 26, 2008, 6:43:59 PM6/26/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
On Fri, 2008-06-27 at 10:35 +1200, Leigh Blackall wrote:
I think Eric's suggestion is a good one.
Ditto -- lets get this onto the agenda for the first council meeting.
Cheers
Wayne
Cheers
Wayne
Hillary
Jun 27, 2008, 1:06:19 AM6/27/08
to WikiEducator
Hi everyone
What I do with our slideshows is put a link (the slideshare url) into
our wiki activity so that those looking at it can press on the link
which leads through to slideshare. We also embed the slideshare into a
blog which we use as an interface to the wiki.
Hope this is clear?
Hillary
On Jun 26, 3:23 am, josh underwood <josh.underw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> embed presentations hosted onhttp://www.slideshare.netin
> WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
>
> Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
> contributing it to our library athttp://d4tel.blogspot.com
>
> josh underwood
> researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk
What I do with our slideshows is put a link (the slideshare url) into
our wiki activity so that those looking at it can press on the link
which leads through to slideshare. We also embed the slideshare into a
blog which we use as an interface to the wiki.
Hope this is clear?
Hillary
On Jun 26, 3:23 am, josh underwood <josh.underw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Hope this is the right place to ask this question - is it possible to
> embed presentations hosted onhttp://www.slideshare.netin
> WikiEducator pages? If so, how do I do it?
>
> Also, if anyone has an interesting experience of designing technology
> enhanced learning for rural communities please do consider
>
> We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
> http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhan...
> We will be making resources from our workshop on designing learning
> for rural communities available through our WikiEducator page
>
>
> josh underwood
> researcher,www.lkl.ac.uk
Nadia
Jun 29, 2008, 7:49:26 AM6/29/08
to WikiEducator
Thank you for the advice. I embedded my power point presentation from
both slideshare and the chameleon link . I was not quite sure which
copyright part to flag. I would like people to be able to use it but
not to sell it for their own profit.
Nadia
both slideshare and the chameleon link . I was not quite sure which
copyright part to flag. I would like people to be able to use it but
not to sell it for their own profit.
Nadia
Leigh Blackall
Jun 29, 2008, 3:27:02 PM6/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
HI Nadia,
What is the link to what you are talking about?
Btw, content on Wikieducator explicitly does not exclude commercial use. Could I talk you into reconsidering your non commercial restriction?
What is the link to what you are talking about?
Btw, content on Wikieducator explicitly does not exclude commercial use. Could I talk you into reconsidering your non commercial restriction?
Chris Harvey
Jun 29, 2008, 6:02:22 PM6/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Nadia_El_Borai/%3DSubject:Simple_rules_to_write_a_paper%3D#Subject:_Simple_rules_to_write_a_paper
It looks like the information in the slides is also on the page.
Warm Regards
Chris
It looks like the information in the slides is also on the page.
Warm Regards
Chris
Leigh Blackall
Jun 29, 2008, 6:27:48 PM6/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
I must be missing something.. I didn't see an embedded slide presentation?
Chris Harvey
Jun 29, 2008, 7:00:41 PM6/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Under the heading "To view as Power Point presentation" theres 2 links. One to the slideshare page and the other to webPresent ppt.
I guess they're embedded links to the presentations.
Its a much better idea then embedding those things that dont work with free software and make the page load so slow.
Good work Nadia and Hillary!
Warm Regards
Chris
I guess they're embedded links to the presentations.
Its a much better idea then embedding those things that dont work with free software and make the page load so slow.
Good work Nadia and Hillary!
Warm Regards
Chris
Leigh Blackall
Jun 29, 2008, 7:29:52 PM6/29/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Yes, Hillary works with us here at Otago Polytechnic where linking to the media services is of course common. For those of us interested in using wiki pages as a primary location for students doing the course - then the embedded media is more optimum as it SAVES download time and navigational stresses. For Hillary, she does not use the Wiki as a primary place for students, and instead uses course blogs, where embedding is simple.
Nadia
Jun 30, 2008, 7:46:14 AM6/30/08
to WikiEducator
Dear Leigh,
This was not my understanding. I thought people would use the material
for knowledge. Not for profit.
If there is any profit it should be for the person who is producing
the material.
I need to understand which part to choose and what the meaning is.
It may be helpful to have a list for us to make the proper choice
rather than what I did, just guessed at the real meaning.
I would appreciate your help in elucidating the meaning.
Thank you
Nadia
This was not my understanding. I thought people would use the material
for knowledge. Not for profit.
If there is any profit it should be for the person who is producing
the material.
I need to understand which part to choose and what the meaning is.
It may be helpful to have a list for us to make the proper choice
rather than what I did, just guessed at the real meaning.
I would appreciate your help in elucidating the meaning.
Thank you
Nadia
Leigh Blackall
Jun 30, 2008, 8:06:28 AM6/30/08
to wikied...@googlegroups.com
Hi Nadia,
Well.. Wikieducator uses the Creative Common Attribution and Share Alike (CC BY SA) copyright licnese. That means that anyone using content from Wikied is free to copy, redistribute, perform, and yes... even make profit or commercial gain with it - so long as they attribute the original author AND use the same license on anything they have made from the content.
Wikied also support the Creative Commons Attribution (CC BY) license - which simply requires people who copy to give credit to the original author/s.
In both instances, people ARE free to use materials for commercial activity, and that is deliberate on the part of Wikied as it is seen as a freedom of use that Wikied does not want to limit. It is also a more simple way to manage copyrights.
So, in short, content actually ON Wikied should not have a license other than CC BY SA or CC BY. Wikied does not support restrictions such as Non Commercial (NC), or No Derivatives (ND).
In the case of your slides, they are on Slideshare.net and so your decission to restrict people's use to non commercial activity does not contradict Wikied's policy of free content. We could not copy the slides onto Wikied however - that would cause a conflict.
Regards
Leigh
Well.. Wikieducator uses the Creative Common Attribution and Share Alike (CC BY SA) copyright licnese. That means that anyone using content from Wikied is free to copy, redistribute, perform, and yes... even make profit or commercial gain with it - so long as they attribute the original author AND use the same license on anything they have made from the content.
Wikied also support the Creative Commons Attribution (CC BY) license - which simply requires people who copy to give credit to the original author/s.
In both instances, people ARE free to use materials for commercial activity, and that is deliberate on the part of Wikied as it is seen as a freedom of use that Wikied does not want to limit. It is also a more simple way to manage copyrights.
So, in short, content actually ON Wikied should not have a license other than CC BY SA or CC BY. Wikied does not support restrictions such as Non Commercial (NC), or No Derivatives (ND).
In the case of your slides, they are on Slideshare.net and so your decission to restrict people's use to non commercial activity does not contradict Wikied's policy of free content. We could not copy the slides onto Wikied however - that would cause a conflict.
Regards
Leigh
josh underwood
Jul 4, 2008, 4:55:31 AM7/4/08
to WikiEducator
Thanks all for great replies. I'm now much more aware of the issues!
I guess what I will and more or less have done is what Hillary
suggests - e.g. link to a blog that embeds from slideshare. See the
first "activity" block on
http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhanced_Learning_For_Rural_Livelihoods
Hope to find the time to be more active in WikiEducator
Josh
I guess what I will and more or less have done is what Hillary
suggests - e.g. link to a blog that embeds from slideshare. See the
first "activity" block on
http://www.wikieducator.org/PCF5:_Learning_To_Design_Technology_Enhanced_Learning_For_Rural_Livelihoods
Hope to find the time to be more active in WikiEducator
Josh
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