: "War dead: On the verge of 5,000" - A Western Wisconsin PWerspective
Wisconsin Mike
Here is an excellent article, from a fine writer:
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/05/31/news/00lead.txt
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War dead: On the verge of 5,000
By Lee Newspapers
.
As the U.S. approaches a milestone number of soldiers killed, we asked
people their thoughts on the ongoing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here they
are, in their own words.
A Vietnam veteran
Bruce Reed Jr., 60, of Winona, was stationed in Saigon and the Central
Highlands as a combat medic in the Vietnam War from 1969 to 1970.
I believe we had a just reason in getting involved. Not saying the
government is - or was - right on the pursuing it as long as it has, but we
have to remember to support the troops whether the government is right or
wrong. It needs to end or it's going to turn into another Vietnam. The
government didn't learn any lessons from that war, and we're back in another
situation. Nothing's really changing.
It touches everybody. Whether they've got a relative in it or a classmate
there. It involves everybody.
It's almost like another Vietnam. It's all right to make a mistake in school
or in life or in government as long as you learn from the mistake.
We found out Vietnam was a mistake but didn't learn anything. I think we're
just repeating that.
It just draws the country and people farther apart. Look at South and North
Korea acting up again. We're involved in everybody's business. If we take
care of our own, we'd be better off. We can't be the savior of everybody. We
need to take care of our own.
We've got an all-volunteer military right now. Not like in Vietnam, when
there were draftees. Those in the service now know the hazards and risks. I
don't think it's fair for them to be there two or three times. They're doing
their duty. Hopefully this doesn't go on another 10 or 15 years, but I have
a feeling it's going to. With that, there's more loss of life and limb. And
not all scars are physical.
Parents of a soldier
Betty and Harlan Stoleson's 49-year-old son, Sgt. Jeff Stoleson, is on his
second deployment in Iraq with the Wisconsin National Guard. Harlan, 79, is
a retired postal worker. Betty, 69, is a funeral home custodian.
Harlan: I was surprised they went into a war with as little information as
they actually had. They had a lot of false information and I was just
surprised that all these senators - only one senator voted against it. It's
easy to start a war, but it's a little harder to get out of it.
I don't really know if we've achieved much, but there are still hot spots in
the world that I think are more dangerous than this Iraq situation. Like
with North Korea and their atomic bombs and missiles. Iran, there's another
hot spot. What are we gonna do about those if we went to war with Iraq over
something that really wasn't that big a deal?
I just wonder how they'll get those troops out of there. Just think if you're
with the last bunch of troops left over there, you don't have many
supporting you. How safe are you going to be? Those last few they've got to
leave. It'll be a big job to get them out safe.
Betty: They know that our guys are over there fighting for our freedom. It's
an issue that I think people think about a lot. Why are we over there? That's
what a lot of people think. People wonder why we're over there. ...
You don't realize what they go through or what parents go through, unless
you have somebody over there. It makes a big difference. You realize what
parents go through. You really do. It's hard. It's really hard. We pray for
him every night. That's all you can do. ...
We've lost too many soldiers.
War protestor
Gail Vaughn, 57, protests the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan every Monday
afternoon outside the La Crosse Post Office. She will stand trial in federal
court Thursday for a trespassing charge she received in a December protest
at Fort McCoy, Wis.
Partly the reason we went is our own personal or spiritual reasons to
commemorate something we feel is important and partly it's for educational
purposes, to spread the word to other folks. ...
Surveys have said 70 percent of the American people are against the war in
Iraq. They're tired of it, they want it to end, they want the troops to come
home. But it never happens. ? I think the legislators are way behind the
people in terms of wanting the war to end. And if we don't apply pressure,
it's not going to end. So, as tired as we are, we continue to try to do
something about it.
People say, "Well who are you? What group?" We just say, "What you see is
what you get. If you show up, you're part of the group."
What have we accomplished, besides the debt, besides the 5,000 people that
are dead, almost, and besides the 20(,000) or 30,000 who are severely
wounded and will take looking after for the rest of their lives?
We have destroyed that country - I think - permanently. Afghanistan, too. ?
We walked across the barricade - they just drew a little line and said, "Don't
step over that line." So we did.
Our idea was to get a chance to go speak to the people in the courts, the
people who represent the United States government, so that we could
officially go on record, because one of the tenets of international law is
that if you see crimes being committed by your government, you are morally
obligated to do something to try to stop them. Otherwise you are complicit.
At the Legion
Jerry Pilger and Mac Dahl are retired educators. Both recently talked about
the current military action in Iraq and Afghanistan while at the La Crescent
American Legion Post 595.
Q: Has your opinion of the war changed over the years?
Pilger: I don't know if wars, in the end, justify their means by changing
cultures. Historically, they haven't. People go back to what they've done
before, maybe a limited change, but it's usually short-term. So if we're
there to change cultures and force democracy, it probably won't happen.
Dahl: My opinion hasn't really changed. My feeling is we shouldn't have been
there in the first place. We were given some false information, and they
went in there with the idea there were weapons of mass destruction, and the
United Nations inspection team didn't find anything ? I don't think (Iraq)
was the threat we thought they'd be ? I don't think we should stick our nose
in a conflict or start a conflict just to get rid of one man (Saddam
Hussein).
Q: Is the war still one of the top issues facing our country?
Pilger: It's hard to put it on the back burner. It affects multiple
families, and loss of life is never good or easy. Memorial Days will
continue.
Dahl: I think the economy is No. 1, but it's certainly tied in with what's
going on in Afghanistan and Iraq because it's costing us money. ? I hope it
never gets to that point, where it's back in the forefront.
Q: Do you believe the war has achieved anything?
Pilger: I think it was a significant achievement, capturing Hussein and his
sons.
Dahl: My feeling is if you want democracy, you have to go out and get that
yourself. I don't think you can force democracy on other people. It's a
different culture. But to answer the question, I'd have to say "yes." I
think the Iraqis probably realize more freedom now than they have in the
years past. I support our troops because they were ordered there, but at the
same time, I feel for the families who lost people over there.
Q: How do you believe the war will continue to shape the country's future?
Pilger: I think it'll make us examine our goals wider and deeper to see if
the value of war is worth the effort, because history has proven it isn't.
So maybe instead of being so eager to go in, we ought to analyze the
situation and negotiate some kind of peace amongst themselves and let them
be the primary negotiators.
Dahl: We were completely out of character with the Iraq war. We weren't
attacked or preempted. They can talk all they want about (9/11), but that
wasn't Iraq. I think a lot of people are mixed up about it.
In Washington
U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold was first elected to the Senate in 1992. He voted
against military action in Iraq.
My opinion of the Iraq war and the wisdom of making that a priority
certainly has not changed. It was a decision that compromised the overall
effort against al-Qaida.
I'm proud of our troops, but I do note that the casualty rate is rising. My
feeling is that this thing (in Iraq and Afghanistan) is potentially
drifting, and I do not accept the notion that we're going to get a benefit
from being there (in Iraq) much longer. It was a bad strategic approach.
The war is not the top issue. For a while it was the top issue, but it is
hardly mentioned now in my town meetings. I've done half of the town
meetings.
This year in the early listening sessions, the comments had to do with the
economy, the stimulus plan and the financial bailout. In the last few
listening sessions, health care has come up.
What have we achieved? In Iraq, we made a mistake going in there. (But) in
terms of military security around the world, it has been great.
Afghanistan has evolved. I supported the mission and thought it was
necessary. But now it's eight years later, and the three characters we went
after - Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Mullah Omar - are not only
all alive but all in Pakistan. Now, after eight years in Afghanistan, there
is a great problem with the appearance of an unending occupation.
Pakistan is threatened in part because of our actions in Afghanistan and how
we handled it. We've got to do whatever we can to try to take away the
sources of support for the Taliban and al-Qaida - and not create a situation
that looks like we're escalating the occupation in Afghanistan.
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Important note: discussion comments at the link given above are only for
Western Wisconsin residents, so I cannot permit you to join in on the local
discussion...very sorry.
Here are my comments on the article given above:
We must continue to support the troops and support our committeements
abroad, however we must view the results with a jaundiced eye, for in my
perpective, the Western Wisconsin perspective, we have not won the peace
which is so critical to our lives.
Sincerely,
Wisconsin Mike