sustainable transportation consultation?

[NBickham]

I’m looking for a sort of 'sustainable transportation consultation.'
Thought this might be the place to ask for input...

My family recently relocated from Milwaukee to rural Jefferson County,
in an effort to produce more of our food and live in closer connection
with nature. We strive to live as sustainably as we can, step by baby
step. Unfortunately, in the short term, our move will require more
driving. We'd like to do it with as little environmental impact as
possible.

For the next several years, my husband will need to drive to Milwaukee
2-3 days per week. I also make short trips (perhaps 10 miles round
trip) with our 2 children a few times a week. We will occasionally
need to be able to haul things like small livestock, salvaged finds,
or manure for the garden.

Currently we have a 1996 Honda Civic (automatic transmission) and a
1998 Honda Odyssey minivan (the last year that the Odyssey was built
on a car body). Both have well over 100k miles and in the past several
years have incurred a LOT of repair costs. Our goal has been to make
these vehicles last as long as possible, in hopes that by the time we
need something else, there will be more sustainable options available.
The minivan is really more car than we need, except that it has been
useful for hauling lumber, straw bales, etc. It's also handy for
camping trips a few times a year.

We have researched commercially available electric vehicles (NEVs) in
the past but haven’t stayed on top of new developments over the past
1.5-2 yrs. We're also interested in biodiesel, if we can access a
reliable source or make our own without generating toxic waste.

Perhaps a small pick-up truck would be ideal for my husband to drive
to Milwaukee and to use for hauling things. And for a second vehicle,
we really only need something small, and it doesn't have to be able to
travel long distances or on major highways. Not sure what we'd do for
camping trips... maybe rent a van.

A hybrid vehicle or a new diesel is probably beyond our budget.

What would you do in our situation, when you were ready to replace a
vehicle? We know nothing about electric conversion, and have a lot of
other projects on our plates, but would consider paying (or bartering
with) someone to help us convert a vehicle, or buying one already
converted. Would an EV be powerful enough for occasional hauling?
There isn't an EV available yet that has a range sufficient for my
husband's 112 mile round trip commute, is there? Anything on the
horizon?

What about other options such as gasification or alcohol fuel (a la
David Blume)?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
Nicole

[Greg David]

My thoughts...

Alcohol ala Blume is prolly the most sustainable/even renewable. There are several difficulities to overcome; production-a local alcohol cooperative?, conversion of car to alcohol, drinking the fuel...

biodiesiel, prolly eaiser to get set up. easier to find cars that will work without conversion. yellow grease will not be available cheap much longer. seed source biodesel is not as good for Nature as holistic ethanol. Algae? maybe...not yet developed much.

electric, has big environmental and social cost in battery materials. prolly not enough lithium in the world for widespread use. perhaps new batteries designs will be better. Old style works, but not great range.

gasification could work...conversion necessary, not too complicated, Fuel sourcing could be restorative. Bulky, needs mainenence with every use. some legal issues. Compression around the corner...range?

Telecomuting practical. High sp internet available?

Organizing commuter network?

Hope this is helpful,

Geg

  

Greg David

W4512 Riverdale Lane

Watertown, WI 53094

920-262-9996

920-988-5629

eart...@mac.com

[Benjamin Nelson]

To Nicole and others interested,

Many people have found small diesels to be great cars. The only ones
really available to us are Volkswagon.
A VW Golf with a TDI engine could run bio-diesel, and has a back seat
for the kids.

Diesels also have good towing power, so it would be no problem to use
a trailer for when you do need to haul lumber, manure, etc.

There are Electric Vehicles that could do a round-trip to Milwaukee,
but believe me, you don't want to know how much they would cost.....
Electric vehicles are great for shorter trips. Running ten mile of
errands would be great use of an EV. A regular gas car can be
converted to total electric. How much it costs varies, but it IS
possible to do.

Keep in mind that we also have E-85 pumps in Waukesha and Jefferson
Counties. That's 85% ethanol, and 15% gasoline. Although how
commercial ethanol is produced right now is NOT ideal, it still is a
renewable fuel, and a better alternative than straight gasoline. Any
"flex-fuel" vehicle can run on E-85, but it can also run on plain
gasoline is you are out traveling away from the ethanol area.

I also heard that as part of the "Renewable Transportation" money that
will be coming into the state next year, part of the plan for it is to
get a number of commercial Bio-Diesel stations up and running in our
state.

You may also want to meet up with the Milwaukee Hybrid Group. Their
next meeting is on Saturday, October 17th.
http://www.milwaukeehybridgroup.com/
They also offer free driver training to help you get better fuel
economy out of whatever you drive.

Hope that helps!

-Ben Nelson

[Robert Frost]

Nicole,

This is a subject I have given ALOT of thought, I used to build / race my own cars and am a gear head at heart so bear with my loooooong response.  I think about vehicles ALOT.

Greg nailed the fuels question (ethanol is more sustainable, biodiesel is easier for the next 5-10 years) and Ben is our expert on EV so in addition to that, here are some "normal" options I see for you:

Passenger / Commuter Vehicle:

>Used Hybrid

>Used VW Diesel

>Keep your Civic

Larger Vehicle:

>Mid Size Truck (1/2 ton) 

>Trailer for the Minivan

Passenger Car options in more depth:

- The only hybrids I would recommend would wither be an Insight or a Gen 2 Prius - both can be found in the $10k range depending on mileage.  The Civic hybrids and Gen 1 Prius are not efficient enough to justify the expense in my opinion.  The Insight will get a reliable 55-70mpg (I hit 95mpg+ on 5 occasions for entire commutes) but it will be useless for anything other than moving 1-2 persons and a little cargo.  I loved mine to pieces as a commuter car, but the lack of multi-functionality killed it for me.   The Gen 2 Prius (2004-08) seat 5 and get 45-55mpg and have a proven track record.  Figure on a battery change about the time you need a new tranny (150-175,000 miles).  Snow tires make either a real 4 season vehicle - I have plowed snow up over the hood of my Insight with them on.  Insights are getting long in the tooth - shop very carefully.

-I ADORE my 2000 TDI Golf and recommend them highly.  47 mpg almost every tank, with a low at 42 when I towed 1000#'s for 500 miles, and 53mpg for the first two tanks (1300 miles) which were 90% highway.  It sits 4-5, the seats fold flat (I have fit 3 55 gallon drums in it), has all the luxury amenities like butt warmers , great audio, and moonroofs, and it has enough power to pull 1500#'s in a 5x8 trailer up to 80 mph.  $8k gets you a nice one and they last - mine has 140,000 miles with no rust (stainless exhaust) and another 100k in it.  This would be my recommendation (a Jetta Wagon is preferred - but they are more expensive and rare) if you want to replace just the minivan and don't see the need for a larger vehicle (see below).  If you are serious I can let you test drive it and answer any additional questions - they need new suspensions every 100k miles, but that is their only real weak point mechanically.

-** My favorite** For the $7-8k difference between selling your Civic and buying one of the above options you can buy (an have installed) an entire new motor, transmission, and have the entire body stripped, repaired and repainted.  It likely still gets 35-40 mpg and converts easily to Ethanol ($300) should the need arise.  There are lots of out of work or under employed mechanics out there (I can recommend a great one) that could use the money.  $200 a month -every month- (unlikely) in repairs for the next 3 years would still leave you ahead of the game vs the above options.  The 10 mg difference between the Civic and the Pruis is only about 120 gallons of gas for 20,000 miles - about .3 tons of C02 which is not that big an issue - plan a tree a year (3001 v. 3000) to offset it.

With unemployment on the rise I think the social justice aspect of keeping old cars running is an important consideration - both your cars are imports and designed to run 250k+ miles before a major system (cylinder head, block, or tranny) rebuild.

Larger Vehicle

-This may not be a comfortable subject, but it  needs to be broached:  it may be time for a Farm Truck.  With 30 acres you will find yourself coming across weekly, and even daily, needs for a pickup or large trailer.  Feed for the sheep will fit in the van, but what about 2 yards  of soil amendments?  3000 willow rods?  Lumber for a shed?  If the tractor gets a flat how will you transport the tire? There are more than just "societal norm" reasons that every farm has a truck.   A good used 90's 1/2 ton truck can be had for $4-6000 with either gas or diesel engines - the diesels will have ALOT more towing capability (10,000#'s+) but be on the high end of the price, are likely more truck than you need, and may need some luv.  They will also get 20-22mpg vs 15-18.  Greg's midsize  Toyota is an awesome compromise, but make sure any truck can tow 5000#'s plus and hold 500#'s+ in the bed.  Solid roof racks are hard to beat - giving you the option to move 16-20' sticks of timber, 24' ladders, etc.

--**Preferred** The only thing that a truck has over a good trailer is the ability to move ALOT of weight - your minivan can't really tow more than  3000#'s, where a truck could tow the entire tractor. If you think that is not needed - a trailer is very hard to beat.   I run my entire farm and LLC operation off of a 5x8 trailer which can hold 1500#'s: which is 2 yards of manure, 3 yards of chips, or 3000 potatoes.  A 5x10 should work on your minivan and provide alot of utility.  My trailer was $700, a 5x10 can be found for $1300 -new- at Farm and Fleet.  The best thing about trailers is that they can also be towed by your tractor into the field and when you remove it from your van, you go back to getting your 24-28mpg.   $1300 is alot better then $6000 and the maintenance is close to zero.  Trailers are also MUCH easier to load than trucks as the bed height is under 2' tall and you don't need to pay licensing or insurance on many of them.

Craigslist is FULL of options right now if you are game - deals are common as an unfortunate repercussion of the  New Depression.

I know you said that you don't want to think new, but Subaru is bringing the Forester in with their new diesel in 2010.  37mpg, AWD, and it tows over 4000#'s.  A true Jack of All Trades for $25k.

Good luck!

-Rob

On Oct 6, 2009, at 12:01 AM, NBickham wrote: