if you care about web2py...
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mdipierro
May 31, 2009, 11:40:47 PM5/31/09
to web2py Web Framework
... you should comment on threads like this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/
Massimo
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/
Massimo
Zoom.Quiet
May 31, 2009, 11:58:29 PM5/31/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:40, mdipierro <mdip...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/
>
>
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/
>
done!-)
> Massimo
--
http://zoomquiet.org
'''过程改进乃是催生可促生靠谱的人的组织!'''
Free as in Freedom! 哲思自由软件社区:http://zeuux.org
mdipierro
Jun 1, 2009, 12:51:46 AM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
thanks!
On May 31, 10:58 pm, "Zoom.Quiet" <zoom.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> done!-)
>
> > Massimo
>
> --http://zoomquiet.org
On May 31, 10:58 pm, "Zoom.Quiet" <zoom.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:40, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
>
> > ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> >http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> > ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> done!-)
>
> > Massimo
>
> --http://zoomquiet.org
Yarko Tymciurak
Jun 1, 2009, 3:28:05 AM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
There seem to be 4 entries there for "web2py" (with various text along with "web2py", making them separate entries...)
Zoom's at least is the single word "web2py" - all you other guys, vote up the clean one-word one!
Zoom's at least is the single word "web2py" - all you other guys, vote up the clean one-word one!
dlypka
Jun 1, 2009, 5:31:13 AM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
Done.
Alexei Vinidiktov
Jun 1, 2009, 6:16:12 AM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
Done.
--
Alexei Vinidiktov
Benigno
Jun 1, 2009, 9:05:30 AM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
there go my 2 cents.
On Jun 1, 5:40 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> Massimo
On Jun 1, 5:40 am, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> Massimo
Message has been deleted
carlo
Jun 1, 2009, 9:10:59 AM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
added.
carlo (aka sotospeak)
On 1 Giu, 05:40, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> Massimo
carlo (aka sotospeak)
On 1 Giu, 05:40, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> Massimo
![Álvaro Justen [Turicas]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXBcQXThlzweDwwnyeZk0O8kG17NFWSeKqcGPhsCM3DVpfVyhJGJg=s40-c)
Álvaro Justen [Turicas]
Jun 1, 2009, 10:33:11 AM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
done.
--
Álvaro Justen
Peta5 - Telecomunicações e Software Livre
21 3021-6001 / 9898-0141
http://www.peta5.com.br/
Álvaro Justen
Peta5 - Telecomunicações e Software Livre
21 3021-6001 / 9898-0141
http://www.peta5.com.br/
Pete
Jun 1, 2009, 12:02:15 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
Done.
Yarko Tymciurak
Jun 1, 2009, 12:59:14 PM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on one:
I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on one:
- atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
- janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
- child entry:
- turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
- satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
- csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
- mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
- alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
- zoomq
Yarko Tymciurak
Jun 1, 2009, 1:08:55 PM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
.... oops... somehow hist "send"... continuing:
It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple entires)
So let's try this (again):
---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
--> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
Thanks,
- Yarko
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yar...@gmail.com> wrote:
hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on one:
- atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
- janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
- child entry:
- turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
- satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
- csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
- mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
- alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
- zoomq
- zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
- benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
- dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
- johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple entires)
So let's try this (again):
---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
--> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
Thanks,
- Yarko
HansD
Jun 1, 2009, 1:13:24 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
- votings needs registering (don't like that)
- seeing how a simple vote ends up like this, wouldn't like to be the
documentation lead :-)
On 1 jun, 19:08, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .... oops... somehow hist "send"... continuing:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
>
> > I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on
> > one:
>
> > - atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
> > - janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
> > - child entry:
> > - turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
> > - satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
> > - csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
> > - mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
> > - alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
> > - zoomq
>
> - zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
> - benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
> - dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
> - johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
>
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Pete <wasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Done.
- seeing how a simple vote ends up like this, wouldn't like to be the
documentation lead :-)
On 1 jun, 19:08, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .... oops... somehow hist "send"... continuing:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
>
> > I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on
> > one:
>
> > - janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
> > - child entry:
> > - turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
> > - satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
> > - csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
> > - mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
> > - alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
> > - zoomq
>
> - zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
> - benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
> - dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
> - johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
>
> Last night we had 4 separate entries; today we have 11 SEPARATE entries...
>
> It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I
> voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple
> entires)
>
> So let's try this (again):
>
> ---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry
> and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
> --> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry
> (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
>
> Thanks,
> - Yarko
>
>
>
> > -
> Last night we had 4 separate entries; today we have 11 SEPARATE entries...
>
> It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I
> voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple
> entires)
>
> So let's try this (again):
>
> ---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry
> and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
> --> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry
> (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
>
> Thanks,
> - Yarko
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Pete <wasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Done.
Yarko Tymciurak
Jun 1, 2009, 1:56:25 PM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, HansD <hans....@pobox.com> wrote:
- votings needs registering (don't like that)
...it's a reddit design, to prevent one person from artificially "upping" a vote; presumably this way you can "depend" on reddit votes, and that is what it offers.
- seeing how a simple vote ends up like this, wouldn't like to be the
documentation lead :-)
... not sure this has anything to do specifically w/ documentation, or leading it...
I think this is a reddit user-interface design thing (I could talk more than I care to about that);
The only real thing it has to do with documentation is what any abstract representation in human systems has: it's like a network problem, n-nodes result in n! connections; complexity explodes (and reddit has not, in this case, facilitated solving this).
The rational solutions to managing explosion of complexity:
- - reduce n (decays to n=1; I write my version of documentation; you comment, and I decide how to fix - like it or leave it, the complexity is thus managed thru a single point of control);
- - abstract concepts, so that each appropriate abstraction becomes a node point, and thus manage complexity, and yet retain meaningful system interrelationships (interfaces) between concepts (i.e., keep the "network connections" between those n nodes).
While discussions have OFTEN focused on frustration about documentation, the approaches proposed (or complaints levied) fail to address the n! problem, or the nature of what is needed. wiki, wiki syntax, while having some noticeable effect, will not solve the node explosion problem, and therefore will not do anything to solve the "lots of email posts on google group" as documentation. In fact, the groups serve well to opportunistically solve (e.g. document) those problems - albeit in a sometimes non-structured way which makes retrieval and correlation problematic, and has many other artifacts...
This (and reddit "solution") is one instance, one example of a more general problem: the tendency (perhaps addictive in the way it's pursued) of diving to solution, implementation details (useful for discovery) but with rare follow throuh to a structural organization.
"Good" documentation will help do this (and by "good" I mean consistent, unifying, aligned around the same abstractions; everybody building their own disparate or non-existing abstractions will only fail to address n! issue);
good docstrings will encourage this;
good testing framework and buildbot testing may also help some.
- Yarko
weheh
Jun 1, 2009, 2:45:09 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
Done
On May 31, 11:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> Massimo
On May 31, 11:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> Massimo
Yannick
Jun 1, 2009, 4:44:22 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
thanks for the link... Done !
Yarko Tymciurak
Jun 1, 2009, 5:11:44 PM6/1/09
to web...@googlegroups.com
I'm confused - there are now 13 separate entries that mention web2py... all of them with very low votes (most 1, some now zero).
I had hoped people would look at web2py ranking, and VOTE on ONE web2py entry and comment under ONE entry... I've tried to point this out...
I've also (now) tried to vote on all of these (but as more people CREATE a new web2py entry it is harder, and reddit is oblivious - it just creates a new entry against text string)
I also notice that votes I commented on a few hours ago are _falling_ so it would seem some are going to the trouble of finding all the web2py entries and voting them _down_...
mikech
Jun 1, 2009, 5:16:50 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
Done.
On May 31, 8:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> Massimo
On May 31, 8:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> Massimo
mdipierro
Jun 1, 2009, 7:02:59 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
LOL
once again they are implying you are me.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/c09zcd8
Some people really have a hard time admitting web2py is getting
popular.
once again they are implying you are me.
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/c09zcd8
Some people really have a hard time admitting web2py is getting
popular.
Richard
Jun 1, 2009, 7:42:48 PM6/1/09
to web2py Web Framework
done.
desfrenes
Jun 2, 2009, 1:42:03 AM6/2/09
to web2py Web Framework
ahaha...
"We are the Borg. Lower your shields, and surrender your ship. We will
add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service ours. Resistance is futile."
On 2 juin, 01:02, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> LOL
>
> once again they are implying you are me.
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
"We are the Borg. Lower your shields, and surrender your ship. We will
add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service ours. Resistance is futile."
On 2 juin, 01:02, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> LOL
>
> once again they are implying you are me.
>
mdipierro
Jun 4, 2009, 5:12:51 PM6/4/09
to web2py Web Framework
I would like to apologize to the member of this list about my my
previous post:
".. you should comment on threads like this:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
"
As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
occasions.
So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
Anyway, as expected, you have once again been accused of being me:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/c09zcd8
This is annoying, this is frustrating.
Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
troll. For this I apologize.
I do not know what the best course of action is.
Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
not?
Should I step in and defend users accused of being me (as I did here
http://lwn.net/Articles/335217/)?
I will do my best not to make controversial statements.
I really really prefer to spend my time coding than discussing these
issues.
Massimo
On May 31, 10:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
>
> Massimo
previous post:
".. you should comment on threads like this:
"
As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
occasions.
So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
Anyway, as expected, you have once again been accused of being me:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framework_do_you_prefer/c09zcd8
This is annoying, this is frustrating.
Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
troll. For this I apologize.
I do not know what the best course of action is.
Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
not?
Should I step in and defend users accused of being me (as I did here
http://lwn.net/Articles/335217/)?
I will do my best not to make controversial statements.
I really really prefer to spend my time coding than discussing these
issues.
Massimo
On May 31, 10:40 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> ... you should comment on threads like this:
>
>
> Massimo
JorgeR
Jun 4, 2009, 6:20:54 PM6/4/09
to web2py Web Framework
From my part, I did understand it as you meant.
Never thought you were promoting a troll.
On Jun 4, 4:12 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> I would like to apologize to the member of this list about my my
> previous post:
>
> ".. you should comment on threads like this:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
> "
>
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
>
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
>
> Anyway, as expected, you have once again been accused of being me:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
Never thought you were promoting a troll.
On Jun 4, 4:12 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> I would like to apologize to the member of this list about my my
> previous post:
>
> ".. you should comment on threads like this:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
> "
>
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
>
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
>
>
> This is annoying, this is frustrating.
>
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
>
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
>
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
>
> Should I step in and defend users accused of being me (as I did herehttp://lwn.net/Articles/335217/)?
> This is annoying, this is frustrating.
>
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
>
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
>
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
>
desfrenes
Jun 4, 2009, 6:49:48 PM6/4/09
to web2py Web Framework
This so-called troll issue is irrelevant. Reddit thread is asking
"which framework?". web2py users answered, end of the story. No need
to know the reasons why users answered, if they did because of your
post then fine, what's wrong with that ?
> I really really prefer to spend my time coding than discussing these
> issues.
Then please do so !
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them?
sure.
> I will do my best not to make controversial statements.
Maybe you should drop comparisons with other frameworks and only focus
on web2py strength. I don't think we have to talk about django or
anything else to communicate.
"which framework?". web2py users answered, end of the story. No need
to know the reasons why users answered, if they did because of your
post then fine, what's wrong with that ?
> I really really prefer to spend my time coding than discussing these
> issues.
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them?
> I will do my best not to make controversial statements.
on web2py strength. I don't think we have to talk about django or
anything else to communicate.
Bill
Jun 4, 2009, 7:34:11 PM6/4/09
to web2py Web Framework
Massimo,
Gosh! I think you are terrific and contributing 200%. I find it
difficult to conceive that you would receive any criticism for your
voluminous output. Rather, I would expect you to be out celebrating
your kudos.
Pettiness seems to be a mark of humanity everywhere. Please disregard
it and look at the big picture. I enclose a link of a person who was
killing himself working for a positive product which you know as
cakephp. Larry would write that he had been seated in his chair for
weeks. Hope he slept a little in his chair.
https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Contributors
Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut
I support you and your efforts. I thank you for your personal
courtesies toward me. I hope I can return the favor someday.
Bill
On Jun 4, 3:12 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> I would like to apologize to the member of this list about my my
> previous post:
>
> ".. you should comment on threads like this:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
> "
>
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
>
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
>
> Anyway, as expected, you have once again been accused of being me:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
Gosh! I think you are terrific and contributing 200%. I find it
difficult to conceive that you would receive any criticism for your
voluminous output. Rather, I would expect you to be out celebrating
your kudos.
Pettiness seems to be a mark of humanity everywhere. Please disregard
it and look at the big picture. I enclose a link of a person who was
killing himself working for a positive product which you know as
cakephp. Larry would write that he had been seated in his chair for
weeks. Hope he slept a little in his chair.
https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/Contributors
Larry E. Masters aka PhpNut
I support you and your efforts. I thank you for your personal
courtesies toward me. I hope I can return the favor someday.
Bill
On Jun 4, 3:12 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> I would like to apologize to the member of this list about my my
> previous post:
>
> ".. you should comment on threads like this:http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ooh3/which_web_framewor...
> "
>
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
>
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
>
>
> This is annoying, this is frustrating.
>
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
>
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
>
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
>
> Should I step in and defend users accused of being me (as I did herehttp://lwn.net/Articles/335217/)?
> This is annoying, this is frustrating.
>
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
>
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
>
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
>
Joe Barnhart
Jun 4, 2009, 9:03:04 PM6/4/09
to web2py Web Framework
Massimo --
No apology needed. You are the #1 advocate for web2py and it is only
understandable that you would try to rally support in the context of a
discussion thread.
If you have a problem, it is that you are doing more "push" marketing
than "pull" marketing. Push marketing is when you try to get out the
word and tell people about a great new product. You try to create a
market for the product by flooding news of it to every corner you can
reach.
Pull marketing is when you quietly work away on your product, making
it better and better but not really trying to get out the word. What
happens is that others find out by word of mouth -- from blogs,
Reddit, Slashdot, and all other social sites. Pull marketing takes
longer, but delivers a far more powerful response. People stampede to
your product because they WANT it. They sing its praises and you
don't need to.
But pull marketing is not without effort, too. To make it work you
need to constantly refine your product -- you have no problem in this
area. However, you also need to make your early users successful with
lots of help like this forum as well as really good up-to-date
documentation. (You knew that was coming, didn't you!)
Warm regards,
Joe Barnhart
No apology needed. You are the #1 advocate for web2py and it is only
understandable that you would try to rally support in the context of a
discussion thread.
If you have a problem, it is that you are doing more "push" marketing
than "pull" marketing. Push marketing is when you try to get out the
word and tell people about a great new product. You try to create a
market for the product by flooding news of it to every corner you can
reach.
Pull marketing is when you quietly work away on your product, making
it better and better but not really trying to get out the word. What
happens is that others find out by word of mouth -- from blogs,
Reddit, Slashdot, and all other social sites. Pull marketing takes
longer, but delivers a far more powerful response. People stampede to
your product because they WANT it. They sing its praises and you
don't need to.
But pull marketing is not without effort, too. To make it work you
need to constantly refine your product -- you have no problem in this
area. However, you also need to make your early users successful with
lots of help like this forum as well as really good up-to-date
documentation. (You knew that was coming, didn't you!)
Warm regards,
Joe Barnhart
weheh
Jun 5, 2009, 2:37:52 AM6/5/09
to web2py Web Framework
Massimo, I never interpreted your request as a troll-like action.
Quite the contrary ... it seemed like a straightforward request for
the web2py user-base to respond with honest answers to a useful
question for framework recommendations.
I've briefly skimmed some of the flaming responses you've gotten, and
frankly, I'm amazed you have the time to respond to them at the level
of detail that you do. Frankly, I wish you would ditch answering the
bulletin boards and flamers and spend more time on the web2py docs and
website!!!
Doc is the highest-leverage activity possible right now for
disseminating accurate info about web2py. Lack of complete, up-to-date
doc is probably still the greatest hinderance to widespread adoption
of web2py IMHO. Let me qualify those last 2 statements. The doc you've
written is excellent, but dense. Dense in the sense that it is
parsimonious in its use of words and yet still conveys a lot of
information. That means it can be hard for someone like me to read, so
I have to re-read multiple times to get the full value of your
statements. I'm more persistent than most, so you probably lose a lot
of prospective users because of this. What is more aggravating,
however, is lack of doc on new capabilities. I spend a lot of time
sifting through this group to find out how to do things. It would be
easier if this info was in an updated reference manual plus user's
guide.
The web2py website is also in need of improved navigation and
organization IMHO. It can be hard to figure out where things are, or
where I am in terms of navigation if I jump in via a google search.
So, if I could manage your time (which I don't have time to do), I'd
have you spending much more time documenting, creating teaching
examples, and working on extending web2py. I would have you spending
much less time in that reddit thread.
Honestly, Massimo, all us web2py'ers are in your debt and we all know
it. Stick to your game plan and don't get distracted by flamers. Keep
up the excellent work.
Quite the contrary ... it seemed like a straightforward request for
the web2py user-base to respond with honest answers to a useful
question for framework recommendations.
I've briefly skimmed some of the flaming responses you've gotten, and
frankly, I'm amazed you have the time to respond to them at the level
of detail that you do. Frankly, I wish you would ditch answering the
bulletin boards and flamers and spend more time on the web2py docs and
website!!!
Doc is the highest-leverage activity possible right now for
disseminating accurate info about web2py. Lack of complete, up-to-date
doc is probably still the greatest hinderance to widespread adoption
of web2py IMHO. Let me qualify those last 2 statements. The doc you've
written is excellent, but dense. Dense in the sense that it is
parsimonious in its use of words and yet still conveys a lot of
information. That means it can be hard for someone like me to read, so
I have to re-read multiple times to get the full value of your
statements. I'm more persistent than most, so you probably lose a lot
of prospective users because of this. What is more aggravating,
however, is lack of doc on new capabilities. I spend a lot of time
sifting through this group to find out how to do things. It would be
easier if this info was in an updated reference manual plus user's
guide.
The web2py website is also in need of improved navigation and
organization IMHO. It can be hard to figure out where things are, or
where I am in terms of navigation if I jump in via a google search.
So, if I could manage your time (which I don't have time to do), I'd
have you spending much more time documenting, creating teaching
examples, and working on extending web2py. I would have you spending
much less time in that reddit thread.
Honestly, Massimo, all us web2py'ers are in your debt and we all know
it. Stick to your game plan and don't get distracted by flamers. Keep
up the excellent work.
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