On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
> I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on
> one:
> - atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
> - janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
> - child entry:
> - turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
> - satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
> - csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
> - mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
> - alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
> - zoomq
- zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
- benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
- dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
- johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
Last night we had 4 separate entries; today we have 11 SEPARATE entries...
It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I
voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple
entires)
So let's try this (again):
---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry
and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
--> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry
(this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
> > I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count on
> > one:
> > - atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
> > - janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
> > - child entry:
> > - turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
> > - satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
> > - csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
> > - mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
> > - alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
> > - zoomq
> - zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
> - benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
> - dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
> - johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
> Last night we had 4 separate entries; today we have 11 SEPARATE entries...
> It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I
> voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the multiple
> entires)
> So let's try this (again):
> ---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's entry
> and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
> --> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's entry
> (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote first...
> Thanks,
> - Yarko
> > -
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Pete <wasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:13 PM, HansD <hans.don...@pobox.com> wrote:
> - votings needs registering (don't like that)
...it's a reddit design, to prevent one person from artificially "upping" a
vote; presumably this way you can "depend" on reddit votes, and that is
what it offers.
> - seeing how a simple vote ends up like this, wouldn't like to be the
> documentation lead :-)
... not sure this has anything to do specifically w/ documentation, or
leading it...
I think this is a reddit user-interface design thing (I could talk more than
I care to about that);
The only real thing it has to do with documentation is what any abstract
representation in human systems has: it's like a network problem, n-nodes
result in n! connections; complexity explodes (and reddit has not, in this
case, facilitated solving this).
The rational solutions to managing explosion of complexity:
- - reduce n (decays to n=1; I write my version of documentation; you
comment, and I decide how to fix - like it or leave it, the complexity is
thus managed thru a single point of control);
- - abstract concepts, so that each appropriate abstraction becomes a
node point, and thus manage complexity, and yet retain meaningful system
interrelationships (interfaces) between concepts (i.e., keep the "network
connections" between those n nodes).
While discussions have OFTEN focused on frustration about documentation, the
approaches proposed (or complaints levied) fail to address the n! problem,
or the nature of what is needed. wiki, wiki syntax, while having some
noticeable effect, will not solve the node explosion problem, and therefore
will not do anything to solve the "lots of email posts on google group" as
documentation. In fact, the groups serve well to opportunistically solve
(e.g. document) those problems - albeit in a sometimes non-structured way
which makes retrieval and correlation problematic, and has many other
artifacts...
This (and reddit "solution") is one instance, one example of a more general
problem: the tendency (perhaps addictive in the way it's pursued) of diving
to solution, implementation details (useful for discovery) but with rare
follow throuh to a structural organization.
"Good" documentation will help do this (and by "good" I mean consistent,
unifying, aligned around the same abstractions; everybody building their
own disparate or non-existing abstractions will only fail to address n!
issue);
good docstrings will encourage this;
good testing framework and buildbot testing may also help some.
> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Yarko Tymciurak <yark...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > hmmm ... is this a user interface problem with redditt?
> > > I think I see MORE entries on web2py now, but not an increase in count
> on
> > > one:
> > > - atryda: 1 point; "Web2py is best for me..."
> > > - janhesky: 1 point: "Web2py for great GAE compatibility."
> > > - child entry:
> > > - turicas: 1 point: "sure, web2py is very cool..."
> > > - satospeak: 1 point: "web2py of course..."
> > > - csmiga: 1 point: "web2py..."
> > > - mark1983: 3 points: "web2py of course..."
> > > - alvinru: 3 points: "I use web2py..."
> > > - zoomq
> > - zoomq: 2 points: "web2py" (the simple, one word entry)
> > - benigno: 1 point: "web2py is about..."
> > - dlypka: 1 point: "web2py on App Engine..."
> > - johnromero: 0 points (!): "web2py and rails"
> > Last night we had 4 separate entries; today we have 11 SEPARATE
> entries...
> > It would be _nice_ if you could just ADD up the points, but you CAN'T (I
> > voted on more than one entry last night... the problem is all the
> multiple
> > entires)
> > So let's try this (again):
> > ---> If you want to vote for web2py on redditt, please find zoomq's
> entry
> > and enter a vote (press the up-arrow);
> > --> If you want to add comments, login and click "comment" to zoomq's
> entry
> > (this will at least keep them all together)... BUT be sure to vote
> first...
> > Thanks,
> > - Yarko
> > > -
> > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Pete <wasp...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm confused - there are now 13 separate entries that mention web2py... all
of them with very low votes (most 1, some now zero).
I had hoped people would look at web2py ranking, and VOTE on ONE web2py
entry and comment under ONE entry... I've tried to point this out...
I've also
(now) tried to vote on all of these (but as more people CREATE a new
web2py entry
it is
harder, and reddit is oblivious - it just creates a new entry against
text string)
I also notice
that votes I commented on a few hours ago are _falling_ so it would
seem some are going to the trouble of finding all the web2py
entries and voting them _down_...
"We are the Borg. Lower your shields, and surrender your ship. We will
add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service ours. Resistance is futile."
On 2 juin, 01:02, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
occasions.
So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
troll. For this I apologize.
I do not know what the best course of action is.
Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
not?
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
This so-called troll issue is irrelevant. Reddit thread is asking
"which framework?". web2py users answered, end of the story. No need
to know the reasons why users answered, if they did because of your
post then fine, what's wrong with that ?
> I really really prefer to spend my time coding than discussing these
> issues.
Then please do so !
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them?
sure.
> I will do my best not to make controversial statements.
Maybe you should drop comparisons with other frameworks and only focus
on web2py strength. I don't think we have to talk about django or
anything else to communicate.
Gosh! I think you are terrific and contributing 200%. I find it
difficult to conceive that you would receive any criticism for your
voluminous output. Rather, I would expect you to be out celebrating
your kudos.
Pettiness seems to be a mark of humanity everywhere. Please disregard
it and look at the big picture. I enclose a link of a person who was
killing himself working for a positive product which you know as
cakephp. Larry would write that he had been seated in his chair for
weeks. Hope he slept a little in his chair.
> As you know I have been accused online of being the only one posting
> messages about web2py (although this is not quite true) and other
> users users have been accused of being me. Me being the only image of
> web2py has not been healthy for anybody. We have discussed it in a few
> occasions.
> So when I suggested that "you should comment on the threads like
> this..." I did not mean to say "you should comment on this one
> thread". I did not mean to promote a troll (that was not a thread I
> started and it was not a thread I contributed until after I posted
> this messages). I just meant to say that if people should make their
> voice heard so that I am not the only voice for web2py.
> Nevertheless my post was ambiguous. Some people that I respect have
> read it out of context and have concluded that I was promoting a
> troll. For this I apologize.
> I do not know what the best course of action is.
> Should I post links to web2py related news when I find them? Should I
> not?
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