[web2py] Debian Packaging
Mark Breedveld
I'm almost done with my exames, so i've a little sparetime left.
What brings me back to webpy packaging.
Well I'm fairly new to web2p development.
And have no clue how the process goes.
I read somewhere in the mailinglist that you approve changes.
And publish them into a new version.
My question is:
How and where would you like to have the web2py packaging system
developt?
and
How would you like to have the packaging system to work?
Because if the above statement is right, then you would be the end
user of the packaging system.
I hope you can get me on the road.
regards,
Mark Breedveld,
--
Subscription settings: http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/subscribe?hl=en
mdipierro
but I am not convinced that packaging for debian requires changing in
the web2py source code. In fact, I hope it does not. If it does not,
there is nothing for me to approve, although I will be happy to review
your proposal and test it.
Thanks for your help on this.
Massimo
Mark Breedveld
I ment was.
How do you package the application before publish it?
Is there a repo? Do have a script to do that?
It is a question about the process, not a technical web2py question.
And my second question was how should we develop the deb package? Is
there a repo that we could use for package code/script? Who approves
or creates the debian packages for every release? And how should we
use it?
I'm new to the opensource, so any advice would be welcome.
regards Mark,
On Apr 20, 4:09 pm, mdipierro <mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu> wrote:
> This is partially true. I approves changes in the web2py source code
mdipierro
the mercurial source.
I do not have an answer to the second question.
Massimo
Yarko Tymciurak
On Apr 20, 9:34 am, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> My excuses, that was not what I ment.
>
> I ment was.
>
> How do you package the application before publish it?
> Is there a repo? Do have a script to do that?
Perhaps this will help:
- The repo is http://code.google.com/p/web2py/
- the application has a makefile for build / distribution (see
http://code.google.com/p/web2py/source/browse/Makefile)
it's not so much a production process, as a convenient collection of
steps for Massimo to use when you prepares a release, but it should
provide you some insight (there may be steps not captured in the
makefile).
- The packaged files (a source zip, a mac executable, a windows
executable) are posted on www.web2py.com; See the makefile entries
for these at "src", "app", "win". Since web2py (for development)
requires "no installation" (caveat: if running source, you need to
have python installed), you run web2py as shown in the Makefile
entry: "run"
>
> It is a question about the process, not a technical web2py question.
>
> And my second question was how should we develop the deb package? Is
> there a repo that we could use for package code/script? Who approves
> or creates the debian packages for every release? And how should we
> use it?
codify the deb packaging process:
I think you would want to make a clone from the google-code repo, make
your package commands, and submit for review; Massimo would have
people from the list test the installation in various contexts, and it
would go from there.
I presume once a packaging process is created, understood, and
accepted by all, Massimo would merge it (I expect Makefile entries)
and begin to add it to his release process - so that a release would
include packaging up for submittal to a debian repository.
Some questions that come to mind:
What would an acceptable release frequency be (Massimo releases
relatively frequently)?
Does a local-host install of web2py make sense?
Is this the right mechanism for releasing web2py?
There will be people more interested in configuration and deployment
in a server environment, and the configurations (apache, etc.) and
choices are beyond a package. A standard installation in a server
environment may not make sense, as the web2py instance will have
additions of application code - either it needs to be in user space,
or (as on a slice) user has to have access to the installation area,
to add to it (minmally, links to the web2py applications).
For personal installation, for local development, a package doesn't
make sense: unzip, run, develop --- that's the normal process (and
you begin to insert your application code in the tree).
I hope this was helpful, answered some of your questions.
- Yarko
Mark Breedveld
This are some of the answers I was looking for.
I'll dive into it, tomorrow.
But this gives me an idea about how the release cicle is done.
And how we could implement the debian packages in it.
Which has been discussed in an earlier.
http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_frm/thread/51b731d9abb5270d/7eb4e9f60e683e01?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=debian#7eb4e9f60e683e01
This might give an idea why we want to package web2py.
And the reason I started this post was because I had the same
questions as you.
The frequent releases of Massimo etc.
More than enough to discuss,
but first I'll study the answer you give me and come up with an idea
== more questions :p.
regards
Mark Breedveld,
Mark Breedveld
So we could keep the current packaging system like it's now.
But we both now that it ain't suitable for debian packaging system.
So I have a tiny idea.
We start working with a major and a tiny release.
The major release will not be up to date, but a proven version.
And released every quarter or half a year. Just like ubuntu.
This we make it easier for companies to offer long term support.
Which is an important issue for customers.
It also shows that web2py has reached the status of an mature
webserver/framework.
My excuse for the long waiting for my answer, but I starting my own
business.
While I'm also busy with school.
But I've made request on Hogeschool Rotterdam to support web2py.
And they where very positieve, so I keep you all posted.
regards Mark Breedveld,
On Apr 20, 7:06 pm, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> Thank you very much,
> This are some of the answers I was looking for.
>
> I'll dive into it, tomorrow.
> But this gives me an idea about how the release cicle is done.
>
> Which has been discussed in an earlier.http://groups.google.com/group/web2py/browse_frm/thread/51b731d9abb52...
José L.
developer and was thinking also of packaging web2py for Debian, but
I've begun to use web2py only a few weeks ago and I prefer to know
more the framework before trying to package it.
Anyway, if I've understood it correctly, I've read in this thread that
you're planning to add the debianization to the web2py sources, so the
package can be created easily. That's a bad practice from the Debian
point of view, and package maintainers encourage upstream not to do
it, unless upstream is the package maintainer. In fact, it's very
usual that, if upstream sources contain a debian directory, the
maintainer removes it before adding the definitive one.
The oficial maintainer must know and modify the debianization all the
time, so he (or they) are who must write it, not upstream. It's the
maintainer responsability having it in a good shape inside the debian
repository.
On the other hand, I've also read that you plan to recheck the package
every quarter of a year. That's not a good practice either, the
package should be checked when it's needed. I.e: everytime a new
upstream version is released, on when a bug in the packaging is
discovered.
If you want to do the Debian package for web2py I recommend you fill a
ITP (Intend to Package) bug in bugs.debian.org, so you'll be the
official maintainer of it, and do all the packaging in Debian. Doing
it in that way, web2py will be in the Debian archive and,
automatically, in all its derivatives, as Ubuntu.
If you need any help, I can lend you a hand, or even do the
maintaining of web2py together, but for that, I need more time to know
the insides of web2py before feeling I can do a good work with it.
Regards.
José L.
Trollkarlen
Its a service where you can package for all mager distros, and have
them all in se same repo.
/T
Mark Breedveld
provider.
Which I've solved now.
Thank you both for your reaction.
You're (Jose) right on the best practices.
In order to set up a debian packaging proces we should have or do the
following
- The web2py community should have a maintainer (group)
- Which has manage the releases repo's
- Ajust web2py for use through the repo
- example : disables the buildin update function /
splits data into the right locations etc
- We should release a debain version on short notice after the sources
release of Massimo.
- We could use http://build.opensuse.org which is/looks very good
Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
because he will have to work with him
I will test http://build.opensuse.org to look if it's usefull for
web2py.
My guesses is that it will be.
I hope to do the testing this weekend.
Dimo has been started to package gluon map.
For futher info on the plans. there is another post on this.
Search for debian on the web2py group and you will found a hole thread
on this.
I hope i have informed you well.
regards Mark Breedveld,
www.markbreedveld.nl
On 21 mei, 07:37, Trollkarlen <robbelibob...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For packaging i sugest using thehttp://build.opensuse.org.
> Its a service where you can package for all mager distros, and have
> them all in se same repo.
>
> /T
>
> On 18 Maj, 08:42, José L. <jredr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 17 mayo, 17:32, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
>
> > > I've been through the material and it's quite straight forward.
> > > So we could keep the current packaging system like it's now.
>
> > > But we both now that it ain't suitable fordebianpackaging system.
> > developer and was thinking also of packaging web2py forDebian, but
> > I've begun to use web2py only a few weeks ago and I prefer to know
> > more the framework before trying to package it.
> > Anyway, if I've understood it correctly, I've read in this thread that
> > you're planning to add the debianization to the web2py sources, so the
> > package can be created easily. That's a bad practice from theDebian
> > point of view, and package maintainers encourage upstream not to do
> > it, unless upstream is the package maintainer. In fact, it's very
> > usual that, if upstream sources contain adebiandirectory, the
> > maintainer removes it before adding the definitive one.
>
> > The oficial maintainer must know and modify the debianization all the
> > time, so he (or they) are who must write it, not upstream. It's the
> > maintainer responsability having it in a good shape inside thedebian
> > repository.
>
> > On the other hand, I've also read that you plan to recheck the package
> > every quarter of a year. That's not a good practice either, the
> > package should be checked when it's needed. I.e: everytime a new
> > upstream version is released, on when a bug in the packaging is
> > discovered.
>
> > If you want to do theDebianpackage for web2py I recommend you fill a
> > ITP (Intend to Package) bug in bugs.debian.org, so you'll be the
> > official maintainer of it, and do all the packaging inDebian. Doing
> > it in that way, web2py will be in theDebianarchive and,
> > automatically, in all its derivatives, as Ubuntu.
>
> > If you need any help, I can lend you a hand, or even do the
> > maintaining of web2py together, but for that, I need more time to know
> > the insides of web2py before feeling I can do a good work with it.
>
> > Regards.
> > José L.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
mdipierro
"web2py mantainer" which I guess I am. If I understand I nominate you
since you have spend some time on this.
On May 27, 6:38 am, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> My excuse for my late reaction, but you all landed up my spambox of my
> provider.
> Which I've solved now.
>
> Thank you both for your reaction.
> You're (Jose) right on the best practices.
>
> In order to set up a debian packaging proces we should have or do the
> following
> - The web2py community should have a maintainer (group)
> - Which has manage the releases repo's
> - Ajust web2py for use through the repo
> - example : disables the buildin update function /
> splits data into the right locations etc
>
> - We should release a debain version on short notice after the sources
> release of Massimo.
>
> - We could usehttp://build.opensuse.orgwhich is/looks very good
>
> Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> because he will have to work with him
>
> I will testhttp://build.opensuse.orgto look if it's usefull for
Luke Faraone
On May 27, 7:38 am, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> In order to set up a debian packaging proces we should have or do the
> following
> - The web2py community should have a maintainer (group)
> - Which has manage the releases repo's
> - Ajust web2py for use through the repo
> - example : disables the buildin update function /
> [...]
> Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> because he will have to work with him
A friend of mine took the initiative to file a ITP for web2py in
Debian.[1] At the time, I do not believe that he was aware of this
discussion. As this appears to be a very complex task, and there
already is interest elsewhere in packaging web2py for Debian, I think
there wouldn't be a problem in transferring the ITP to whoever wishes
to actually submit the package, or maintaining the package
collectively.
[1]: http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/thread/0500716076d15548
Thanks,
Luke Faraone
http://luke.faraone.cc/
mdipierro
> [1]:http://groups.google.com/group/linux.debian.bugs.dist/browse_thread/t...
> Thanks,
>
> Luke Faraonehttp://luke.faraone.cc/
Mark Breedveld
Well was affraid you would ask that.
And there're two very good reasons why I should not be me.
No expirence
No time at all, full time student with three jobs to pay it.
But since we have here at least three expirenced debian packagers.
I'll guess we could arange something there.
But before we run for president:p.
First package one to see what kind of work has to be done.
And to turn that in an endless process.
I was wondering of who has time to package.
Dimo started to pack to gluon.
But web2py-core and some others stuff mentionat here :
http://groups.google.nl/group/web2py/browse_thread/thread/51b731d9abb5270d/9ce194a4cc6a9fd6?hl=nl&lnk=gst&
And luke, could you invite your friend to this discussion?
So we all can put things together.
After the weekend you here about Novell Suse build.
It seems quite good and i'll think it also is.
I have worked before with virtual machine builder of Novell Suse.
Which is also quite good.
You all here soon of me.
regards Mark Breedveld,
www.markbreedveld.nl
Mark Breedveld
I've took a look at build.opensuse.org and seems to be good.
I haven't tested it, but because I do not have time for that.
But I see how it works and packing web2py should not be a problem.
Because it's mainly moving files around and checking depencies.
But as far as I could see it ment for building rmp.
Which are used by the major distrubutions redhat, mandriva and
opensuse.
This ain't bad, but another topic.
This would make the distrubution of a virtual appliance very easy.
Which we could make also there.
My idea is to first create a debian packaging (process).
Which has the difficultes guidelines.
And copy the main structure to opensuse, so we have one and same
structure.
Change it to there guidelines and get a working process for both.
Are there're any volentares for packaging web2py?
Regards
Mark Breedveld
www.markbreedveld.nl
So we have two biggeste package structures filed in.
On 27 mei, 22:24, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> Well was affraid you would ask that.
> And there're two very good reasons why I should not be me.
>
> No expirence
> No time at all, full time student with three jobs to pay it.
>
> But since we have here at least three expirenceddebianpackagers.
> I'll guess we could arange something there.
>
> But before we run for president:p.
> First package one to see what kind of work has to be done.
> And to turn that in an endless process.
>
> I was wondering of who has time to package.
> Dimo started to pack to gluon.
>
Mark Breedveld
packages?
On 2 jun, 09:56, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've took a look at build.opensuse.org and seems to be good.
> I haven't tested it, but because I do not have time for that.
>
> But I see how it works and packing web2py should not be a problem.
> Because it's mainly moving files around and checking depencies.
> But as far as I could see it ment for building rmp.
> Which are used by the major distrubutions redhat, mandriva and
> opensuse.
> This ain't bad, but another topic.
> This would make the distrubution of a virtual appliance very easy.
> Which we could make also there.
>
Mark Breedveld
On 2 jun, 09:57, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> Ps. does anyone know how to contactdimoor his progress on the gluon
Mark Breedveld
build.opensuse.org
http://wiki.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Debian_builds
So now it seems is a very good plan.
regards Mark Breedveld
> Ps. does anyone know how to contactdimoor his progress on the gluon
Mark Breedveld
I've two announcements to make.
First one is that the Hogeschool Rotterdam (HRO) about to launch a
test educational environment with web2py.
Tested on GAE and SUN. So support is on his way.
Secondly I just got an idea with a hole different approach to
packaging.
We make a program that manages (create, delete, update, configures)
multiple instances of web2py with different users and frontend servers
like apache.
With configures, I mean the wsgi, fastgci, proxy, but also passwords,
clustering. etc.
We upload that single program into the repo.
- This is ideal for universities how want to give every student a
web2py server.
- Hosting compagnies (same idea as above)
- Single users
And of course our packagers who have not to take up against the
release frequency of web2py (which is to high for industrial
packaging).
Also it easier the get compliant to the guidelines of debian/novell
opensuse.
And last but not least. The current publishing way has not the be
changed.
I hope the idea is clear and I hope to hear of you al soon.
regards Mark Breedveld,
On May 27, 1:38 pm, Mark Breedveld <m.breedv...@solcon.nl> wrote:
> My excuse for my late reaction, but you all landed up my spambox of my
> provider.
> Which I've solved now.
>
> Thank you both for your reaction.
> You're (Jose) right on the best practices.
>
> - The web2py community should have a maintainer (group)
> - Which has manage the releases repo's
> - Ajust web2py for use through the repo
> - example : disables the buildin update function /
> splits data into the right locations etc
>
> - We should release a debain version on short notice after the sources
> release of Massimo.
>
> Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> because he will have to work with him
>
> My guesses is that it will be.
> I hope to do the testing this weekend.
>
> Dimo has been started to package gluon map.
> For futher info on the plans. there is another post on this.
Joschua
web2py packages. Would be cool to install web2py from the Ubuntu or-
the-like Software-Center! :D
> > Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> > My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> > And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> > because he will have to work with him
>
mdipierro
> > Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> > My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> > And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> > because he will have to work with him
>
Christopher Steel
That sounds like a great idea.
Chris
> > > Because the maintainer has to invest a lot of time on regular bases.
> > > My idea is to launch a vacature for it on the community.
> > > And have Massimo make a decide how will become the lead packager,
> > > because he will have to work with him
>
Mark Breedveld
to make the application clear. Because it's quite complex, but
possible.
But in the mean while, I would like to get a list of currently used
configurations.
Like this.
web2py + apache wsgi + postgreSQL (textual configuration)
web2py (textual configuration) + apache proxy (textual configuration)
+ postgreSQL (textual configuration)
web2py (textual configuration) + tomcat (XML configuration) +
postgreSQL (textual configuration) //This will probably not exist,
just an example
José L.
is frozen, which means that we won't see web2py in Debian stable
before a year or two.
I'd like to know if you keep on trying to do the packaging. Also, if
you need help I can create a collaboration group for the packaging in
alioth.debian.org.
And, if you think you can not do it, please let me hijack to ITP, I'd
try to do the packaging, so in the medium term, we can have a working
package to be tested by the Debian community (and its derivatives, as
Ubuntu, Linux Mint, LinEx, etc.)
Regards.
José L.
> > > > > I will testhttp://build.opensuse.orgtolookifit'susefull for