Jason Darling wrote:
> To all Watir Users,
>
> In the 1-2 years I have been using Watir, this community has grown
> very fast. I believe we all are happy that this tool is growing in
> popularity and in acceptance with our respective employer(s). However,
> I have seen- and disussed with other local Watir users- some growing
> pains. In fact, from talking to our local Watir user group in Austin
> the other night, I know that there are qualified/experienced users who
> are not engaging the community because of some of these 'growing
> pains' mentioned below:
>
> /Growing Pains/
> 1) a lot of duplicate emails/posts, especially by new users
I agree. I mostly ignore these, especially when i know that there are
solutions in the archives and the sender gives no indication that they
have read the archives.
> 2) emails/posts describing a situation and asking for assistance
> without including any code. It can be difficult to understand and help
> people without the source HTML and/or Ruby code
Sometimes, I will ask for this, but I am finding myself actually
ignoring these posts more and more. One problem may simply be that
people don't know what to show. I'm not sure how to really make this better.
> 3) a lack of respect for others by asking for help 'real time'
I never read posts with headlines such as "URGENT HELP NEEDED". Rather,
I respond based on the care that the poster has taken in writing their
request in a form that can be understood by others.
> 4) a lack of writing in English- I am referring to people using SMS,
> chatspeak, etc. Examples of this are 'pls' = please, 'R U' = Are you,
> etc. I personally find this very annoying. I, like you, am a
> professional tester and find this to be unprofessional when
> communicating with colleagues. This is not a chat room, but an
> email/post that is being composed on a computer with a full keyboard,
> not a cell phone or blackberry.
Personally, i don't find this to be a problem when all the other
elements of clear communication are in play. On the other hand, i do
find that this kind of short hand often indicates a lack of general
thoughtfulness in the writing.
> I, along with some of you, belong to the Software-Testing group by
> James Bach and Cem Kaner on yahoo. Before one can join, there is list
> of rules and guidelines that you must read and agree to. Then, you
> must send a reply back to them telling them your name and why you want
> to join the group. Only then will they grant you permission to join
> the group.
This group was never set up with similar rules. If someone wants to set
up a Watir list that is moderated and has a strict set of rules of play,
I would love to join it. But i don't have the time/energy right now to
moderate such a list. And I think this list should remain open, although
a set of guidelines are certainly welcome.
> While I am not suggesting- at least not yet- something so strict, I
> have come up with a list of solutions to assist in making this
> user-group better for both new and old members below:
>
> /Solutions/
> 1) SEARCH before sending an email/writing a post; chances are, someone
> has already asked the same question!
I agree.
> 2) include Watir and HTML code in originating emails/posts as much as
> possible
I agree. I do think that people often don't realize what they should be
showing us, but they certainly could be trying harder.
> 3) use real names in posts/emails
This is a requirement on Cem and James list, but has never been cited as
a requirement here. The only way to enforce this would be for someone to
moderate subscriptions. Currently this is not done. Does anyone want to
volunteer to do this? It's a lot of work.
> 4) be respectful of others; remember, Bret, the core team, and
> advanced users are colleagues and do not work for you; these people
> are volunteering their time and experience to help the community free
> of charge
Very true.
> 5) no use of SMS/chatspeak
Like i said before, this doesn't annoy me they way it annoy's Jason.
Shoot, i don't even capitalize "i".
> 6) making a Wiki page for new users that must be read by all new users
> when they join. This could include this set norms/guidelines I am
> suggesting, a link to the getting started page, or Bret's latest tutorial
+1. I would be happy to cite such a page so that new subscribers saw it
and also feature it prominently on wtr.rubyforge.org.
> Feel free to suggest more problems or solutions.
One of the problems you run into in a list like this is enforcement. Cem
and James' list is moderated and they won't post any emails that don't
meet their rules. Since this is an unmoderated list, how do you propose
to enforce rules such as these?
Anyway, thanks for raising these issues. The quality of discussion on
this list has declined over the past year, and i think it is worth while
to find ways to improve it.
Bret
--
Bret Pettichord
Lead Developer, Watir, http://wtr.rubyforge.org
Blog, http://www.io.com/~wazmo/blog
Since this is an unmoderated list, how do you propose
to enforce rules such as these?
- make a wiki page with guidelines for posting (I volunteer)
I think example DOs and DON’Ts next to the guideline entries might help;
For instance, if someone is newer to WATiR and/or coding in general, they may provide the whole of a script and the entire page, perhaps showing an example snippet of code and the page it relates to would make it clearer what is expected.
Jeezo. I must get better at punctuating sentences.
From:
watir-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:watir-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Željko Filipin
Sent: 28 September 2007 15:48
To: watir-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [wtr-general] Re:
Identifying problems and proposing solutions for the Watir community
eljko
Jason
Randall Biagi
Information Technology Branch
Calif. Department of Fish and Game
1807 13th Street, Suite 201
Sacramento, CA 95811-7137
USA
916-324-6305
rbi...@dfg.ca.gov
>>> "Jeff Fry" <jeff...@gmail.com> 10/1/2007 12:04 PM >>>
I think the FAQ could theoretically help here as well...but it needs some
maintenance.
I just added a section for AJAX, and updated How to search the mailing list
to use the googlegroup, not the old list. I'll try to update at least some
other low hanging fruits (e.g. pointing to the old user guide) by next
Monday.
Cheers,
Jeff
I think example DOs and DON'Ts next to the guideline entries might help;
perhaps showing an example snippet of code and the page it relates to would make it clearer what is expected.
Errrrmmmmm…..
Yes?
Won’t be immediately as I’ve got a fair amount to do, but I’ll try and get to it ASAP….
From:
watir-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:watir-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Željko Filipin
Sent: 02 October 2007 09:54
To: watir-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [wtr-general] Re:
Identifying problems and proposing solutions for the Watir community
On 9/28/07, Max Russell <mrus...@inpses.co.uk> wrote:
eljko
Yes?
Won't be immediately as I've got a fair amount to do, but I'll try and get to it ASAP….
There are NEVER deadlines, just milestones zipping past.
From:
watir-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:watir-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Željko Filipin
Sent: 02 October 2007 10:02
To: watir-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [wtr-general] Re:
Identifying problems and proposing solutions for the Watir community
On 10/2/07, Max Russell <mrus...@inpses.co.uk> wrote:
Yes?
Glad to hear that. :)
Won't be immediately as I've got a fair amount to do, but I'll try and get to it ASAP....
Take your time. There are no deadlines.
eljko