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CDC: Whooping cough epidemic worst in 50 years due to Obama immigration policies.
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Dr. James
Jul 19, 2012, 10:39:44 PM7/19/12
to
By Maggie Fox, NBC News
Whooping cough is causing the worst epidemic seen in the United
States in more than 50 years, health officials said Thursday,
and they�re calling for mass vaccination of adults.
The epidemic has killed nine babies so far and babies are by far
the most vulnerable to the disease, also known as pertussis, the
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. The best
way to protect them is to vaccinate the adults around them, and
to vaccinate pregnant women so their babies are born with some
immunity.
�As of today, nationwide nearly 18,000 cases have been reported
to the CDC,� the CDC�s Dr. Anne Schuchat told reporters in a
conference call. �That is nearly twice as many as reported last
year. We may be on track for a record high pertussis rate this
year,� she added.
�We may need to go back to 1959 to find as many cases. I think
there may be more coming to a place near you.�
The last record year was 2010, when 27,000 cases were reported
and 27 people died. In 1959, 40,000 cases were reported.
In 2008, whooping cough killed 195,000 people globally,
according to the World Health Organization.
Whooping cough is caused by a bacterial infection. It gets its
name from the nagging cough it causes that can make children
breathless. They often gasp for air, making a distinctive
whooping sound. But it�s not so serious in adults and they may
not realize that a persistent cough is being caused by pertussis.
Washington state is having an especially bad time with whooping
cough this year, with 3,000 cases so far, compared to 20 at the
same time last year, said Mary Selecky, secretary of the
Washington State Department of Health. �For every case that we
know about, we suspect that there are many people out there who
have pertussis and don�t know it,� Selecky said.
�In many cases, babies get this illness from their mothers or
others close to them. It�s absolutely tragic.�
The state has distributed 27,000 doses of a booster vaccine for
uninsured adults and has ordered more. �This disease is very
easy to catch,� Selecky said. �It has certainly gotten hold of
our population in Washington state.�
The CDC is trying to figure out what's going on, but Schuchat
said a couple of factors are clearly at work. The formulation
for the whooping cough vaccine was changed in 1997, and kids
hitting age 13 and 14 now are the first to have been fully
vaccinated with five doses of the new vaccine. The new
formulation causes less of a reaction, but it may also wear off
sooner, Schuchat said.
The older vaccine was made using a whole pertussis bacterium. It
was very effective, but it did cause swelling in some kids who
got it, and sometimes caused a fever -- something that scared
parents. It also was widely blamed for causing rare but serious
neurological reactions, although Schuchat said studies have not
confirmed this.
�Vaccines have done a good job of reducing the incidence of
pertussis but our vaccines aren�t perfect,� Schuchat said. �We
wish we had better ways of controlling pertussis. Given how
dangerous pertussis is for babies, preventing infection in
babies is our priority.�
Schuchat says people who are not vaccinated have eight times the
risk of infection compared to people who are fully vaccinated
against whooping cough. And if someone who�s been vaccinated
does get whooping cough, the disease is usually less serious and
they are far less likely to infect someone else.
The CDC says 95 percent of toddlers aged up to three years have
received at least three doses of the vaccine and 84 percent have
four doses. And in 2010 69 percent of 13- to 17-year-olds got a
fifth booster dose. Kids should get five doses to be fully
protected.
And while adults are supposed to have at least one dose of
whooping cough vaccine, only 8.2 percent of U.S. adults have
done so.
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/19/12835335-cdc-whooping-
cough-epidemic-worst-in-50-years?lite
Whooping cough is causing the worst epidemic seen in the United
States in more than 50 years, health officials said Thursday,
and they�re calling for mass vaccination of adults.
The epidemic has killed nine babies so far and babies are by far
the most vulnerable to the disease, also known as pertussis, the
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. The best
way to protect them is to vaccinate the adults around them, and
to vaccinate pregnant women so their babies are born with some
immunity.
�As of today, nationwide nearly 18,000 cases have been reported
to the CDC,� the CDC�s Dr. Anne Schuchat told reporters in a
conference call. �That is nearly twice as many as reported last
year. We may be on track for a record high pertussis rate this
year,� she added.
�We may need to go back to 1959 to find as many cases. I think
there may be more coming to a place near you.�
The last record year was 2010, when 27,000 cases were reported
and 27 people died. In 1959, 40,000 cases were reported.
In 2008, whooping cough killed 195,000 people globally,
according to the World Health Organization.
Whooping cough is caused by a bacterial infection. It gets its
name from the nagging cough it causes that can make children
breathless. They often gasp for air, making a distinctive
whooping sound. But it�s not so serious in adults and they may
not realize that a persistent cough is being caused by pertussis.
Washington state is having an especially bad time with whooping
cough this year, with 3,000 cases so far, compared to 20 at the
same time last year, said Mary Selecky, secretary of the
Washington State Department of Health. �For every case that we
know about, we suspect that there are many people out there who
have pertussis and don�t know it,� Selecky said.
�In many cases, babies get this illness from their mothers or
others close to them. It�s absolutely tragic.�
The state has distributed 27,000 doses of a booster vaccine for
uninsured adults and has ordered more. �This disease is very
easy to catch,� Selecky said. �It has certainly gotten hold of
our population in Washington state.�
The CDC is trying to figure out what's going on, but Schuchat
said a couple of factors are clearly at work. The formulation
for the whooping cough vaccine was changed in 1997, and kids
hitting age 13 and 14 now are the first to have been fully
vaccinated with five doses of the new vaccine. The new
formulation causes less of a reaction, but it may also wear off
sooner, Schuchat said.
The older vaccine was made using a whole pertussis bacterium. It
was very effective, but it did cause swelling in some kids who
got it, and sometimes caused a fever -- something that scared
parents. It also was widely blamed for causing rare but serious
neurological reactions, although Schuchat said studies have not
confirmed this.
�Vaccines have done a good job of reducing the incidence of
pertussis but our vaccines aren�t perfect,� Schuchat said. �We
wish we had better ways of controlling pertussis. Given how
dangerous pertussis is for babies, preventing infection in
babies is our priority.�
Schuchat says people who are not vaccinated have eight times the
risk of infection compared to people who are fully vaccinated
against whooping cough. And if someone who�s been vaccinated
does get whooping cough, the disease is usually less serious and
they are far less likely to infect someone else.
The CDC says 95 percent of toddlers aged up to three years have
received at least three doses of the vaccine and 84 percent have
four doses. And in 2010 69 percent of 13- to 17-year-olds got a
fifth booster dose. Kids should get five doses to be fully
protected.
And while adults are supposed to have at least one dose of
whooping cough vaccine, only 8.2 percent of U.S. adults have
done so.
http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/19/12835335-cdc-whooping-
cough-epidemic-worst-in-50-years?lite
walt tonne
Jul 20, 2012, 5:21:10 PM7/20/12
to
American eagle, only bird that fouls it's own nest.
Message has been deleted
Barb May
Jul 24, 2012, 1:03:08 PM7/24/12
to
Dr. James wrote:
> "In many cases, babies get this illness from their mothers or
> others close to them. It's absolutely tragic."
>
You failed to prove that this has anything to do with immigration.
> "In many cases, babies get this illness from their mothers or
> others close to them. It's absolutely tragic."
>
This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing to immunize
their children, along with a new version of the vaccine that is not as
effective as the old one.
--
Barb
Dano
Jul 24, 2012, 1:52:03 PM7/24/12
to
"Barb May" wrote in message news:jumkgh$351$1...@dont-email.me...
================================================
Probably more to do with paranoid right wing nutjobs who think everything
the gubmint does is a plot to get em.
Probably more to do with paranoid right wing nutjobs who think everything
the gubmint does is a plot to get em.
suzeeq
Jul 24, 2012, 1:55:50 PM7/24/12
to
right politically....
Dano
Jul 24, 2012, 2:02:21 PM7/24/12
to
"suzeeq" wrote in message news:jumnj3$mtd$1...@dont-email.me...
==========================================
I doubt that it's an equal proportion though I'll give you partial accuracy.
I doubt that it's an equal proportion though I'll give you partial accuracy.
suzeeq
Jul 24, 2012, 2:16:41 PM7/24/12
to
Gunner Asch
Jul 24, 2012, 3:13:38 PM7/24/12
to
and so on and so forth?
From 7 yrs ago...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2005/feb/12/20050212-112200-6485r/?page=all
From this year....
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/05/chagas-new-hiv/
http://cofcc.org/2012/05/latino-immigration-brings-deadly-new-virus-to-the-us/
Odd that the CDC would form up another group eh?
http://www.cdc.gov/ncezid/dgmq/
http://ccis.ucsd.edu/2012/06/contagious-disease-epidemics-national-security-and-u-s-immigration-historical-policy-responses-working-paper-187/
You may wish to read this paper...might teach you something that the DNC
wont....
http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
(I would have loved to have met the authoress)
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/nyregion/19cosman.html
..."As a Jewish child growing up during World War II, Madeleine was
acutely conscious of the need for self-protection, something she later
discussed in interviews. As a young woman, she learned to shoot. If the
knock on the door were to come, Madeleine Pelner would be ready. By the
time she was in college, her devotion to the concept of personal
responsibility had led her to the writings of Ayn Rand, whose
libertarian ideas she embraced.
Ms. Cosman's diverse work was united by her interest in the history of
medicine. As a scholar of medieval medicine, she found that early
medical treatises often included descriptions of food thought to be
curative. This led to "Fabulous Feasts." She was later the founder and
president of Medical Equity, a brokerage of medical and surgical
practices.
Most recently, Ms. Cosman's interest in health care policy led her to
study the effects of illegal immigration on the United States
health-care system. Her article "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine,"
published last year in The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons,
has been widely reproduced on anti-immigration and other conservative
Web sites.
Ms. Cosman's husband, Bard, a plastic surgeon whom she married in 1958,
died in 1983. Survivors include a daughter, Marin, of Scarsdale, N.Y.; a
son, Bard, of La Jolla, Calif.; and four grandchildren. Information on
other survivors could not be confirmed.
Ms. Cosman also leaves behind a vast library of illuminated manuscripts
and a large collection of handguns."
Gunner
Gunner
--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"
She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Ed Stasiak
Jul 24, 2012, 5:02:30 PM7/24/12
to
> Barb May
their immunizations up to date, it's dirt-poor Mexican peasants…
>
> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
> to immunize their children
Yes, because if there is any group that can be counted on to have
> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
> to immunize their children
their immunizations up to date, it's dirt-poor Mexican peasants…
Sancho Panza
Jul 24, 2012, 10:17:45 PM7/24/12
to
and the superior care it affords. Even the Journal of American
Physicians and Surgeons has analyzed the harsh realities of such care in
a formal megastudy:
The influx of illegal aliens has serious hidden medical
consequences.We judge reality primarily by what we see. But what
we do not see can be more dangerous, more expensive, and more
deadly than what is seen.
Illegal aliens’ stealthy assaults on medicine now must rouse
Americans to alert and alarm. Even President Bush describes
illegal aliens only as they are seen: strong physical laborers who
work hard in undesirable jobs with low wages, who care for their
families, and who pursue theAmerican dream.
What is unseen is their free medical care that has degraded and
closed some of America’s finest emergency medical facilities, and
caused hospital bankruptcies: 84 California hospitals are closing
their doors. “Anchor babies” born to illegal aliens instantly qualify
as citizens for welfare benefits and have caused enormous rises in
Medicaid costs and stipends under Supplemental Security Income
and Disability Income.
What is seen is the illegal alien who with strong back may
cough, sweat, and bleed, but is assumed healthy even though he and
his illegal alien wife and children were never examined for
contagious diseases.
By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
What is seen is the political statistic that 43 million lives are at
risk in America because of lack of medical insurance.
What is unseen is that medical insurance does not equal medical care.
Uninsured people receive medical care in hospital emergency
departments (EDs) under the coercive Emergency Medical
Treatment and Active Labor Act of 1985 (EMTALA), which
obligates hospitals to treat the uninsured but does not pay for that
care.
Also unseen is the percentage of the uninsured who are illegal
aliens. No one knows how many illegal aliens reside in America. If
there are 10 million, they constitute nearly 25 percent of the
uninsured. The percentage could be even higher."
--http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
Bill Steele
Jul 25, 2012, 1:37:12 PM7/25/12
to
In article <jumoq7$v3j$1...@dont-email.me>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
wrote:
Scientific literacy does not correlate with political orientation. It
just happens that on the conservative side, science can be overridden by
greed.
wrote:
just happens that on the conservative side, science can be overridden by
greed.
Barb May
Jul 25, 2012, 3:01:57 PM7/25/12
to
Sancho Panza wrote:
> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>
>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>> to immunize their children
>>
> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>
>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>> to immunize their children
>>
> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
for something.
FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping cough
and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal immigration:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/07/23/anti-vaccine-movement-causes-the-worst-whooping-cough-epidemic-in-70-years/
"The great northwest of the U.S. is known for its natural beauty. It's
also a high-tech region with a highly educated public - not exactly the
kind of place one would expect to fall for the anti-science rhetoric of
the anti-vaccine movement. But it has. The anti-vaxxers have convinced
a frighteningly high number of parents in Washington State to withhold
vaccines from their children. A story in The Seattle Times last year
reported that "Washington [state] parents are choosing not to vaccinate
their kindergartners at a rate higher than anywhere else in the
country."
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants
# 1 California: 2,209,000
# 2 Texas: 1,041,000
# 3 New York: 489,000
# 4 Illinois: 432,000
# 5 Florida: 337,000
# 6 Arizona: 283,000
# 7 Georgia: 228,000
# 8 New Jersey: 221,000
# 9 North Carolina: 206,000
# 10 Colorado: 144,000
# 11 Washington: 136,000
California: 2,209,000 illegal aliens
Washington: 136,000 illegal aliens
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57475858-10391704/cdc-us-whooping-cough-cases-rising-at-epidemic-rate/?tag=mncol;lst;1
"Washington state has the largest amount of reported cases, with more
than 3,000 by the end of last week."
--
Barb
plainolamerican
Jul 25, 2012, 4:53:21 PM7/25/12
to
On Jul 24, 12:52 pm, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Barb May" wrote in messagenews:jumkgh$351$1...@dont-email.me...
----
wrong ... it's the liberals.
I know a few and they really are nutjobs.
> "Barb May" wrote in messagenews:jumkgh$351$1...@dont-email.me...
wrong ... it's the liberals.
I know a few and they really are nutjobs.
plainolamerican
Jul 25, 2012, 4:51:02 PM7/25/12
to
On Jul 20, 4:21 pm, walt tonne <tonnewalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> American eagle, only bird that fouls it's own nest.
not true
> American eagle, only bird that fouls it's own nest.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHSgyxRQXvg
suzeeq
Jul 25, 2012, 8:46:32 PM7/25/12
to
Bill Steele
Jul 26, 2012, 1:58:20 PM7/26/12
to
In article <juq415$3rk$3...@dont-email.me>, suzeeq <su...@imbris.com>
wrote:
Ignorance knows no political boundaries.
wrote:
Bill Steele
Jul 26, 2012, 2:01:38 PM7/26/12
to
In article <jupfrl$9lu$7...@dont-email.me>,
West-coasters do have a tendency toward "natural" remedies, avoiding
food additives, prescription drugs and other medical amenities. Too bad
they slop this over onto vaccination.
food additives, prescription drugs and other medical amenities. Too bad
they slop this over onto vaccination.
Bill Steele
Jul 26, 2012, 2:09:55 PM7/26/12
to
In article
<c486105b-3170-42bd...@v7g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
The quote is from Benjamin Franklin,and it was just about eagles vs.
turkeys.
<c486105b-3170-42bd...@v7g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
turkeys.
Sancho Panza
Jul 26, 2012, 3:22:41 PM7/26/12
to
On 7/25/2012 3:01 PM, Barb May wrote:
> Sancho Panza wrote:
>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>> to immunize their children
>>>
>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>
> You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
> for something.
>
> FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping cough
> and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal immigration:
So you say that illegal immigrants do receive all their vaccinations.
> Sancho Panza wrote:
>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>> to immunize their children
>>>
>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>
> You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
> for something.
>
> FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping cough
> and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal immigration:
Must be part of their overall legal and health consciousness. What a
load of hooey.
Ed Stasiak
Jul 26, 2012, 3:59:16 PM7/26/12
to
> Barb May
> Latest available data - 2000 Census.
Good thing illegal Mexican peasants are so careful about getting
vaccinated...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html
"Depending on the source, the numbers range widely - from about
7 million up to 20 million or more.
Nailing down such figures is impossible. Even settling on a ballpark
figure is difficult given the official sources: the US Census,
apprehensions
along the US-Mexico border, and social service agencies. For one
thing,
illegal immigrants avoid responding to census questionnaires, states a
2005 report by Bear Stearns Asset Management Inc. in New York.
Based on the national census in 2000, the US Census Bureau puts
the estimate of illegal immigrants at 8.7 million. As of 2003, the US
Citizenship and Immigration Services put the number at 7 million.
Since then, United States immigration officials have said the number
has grown by as much as 500,000 a year.
Those closest to the fight to protect US borders say the figure is
higher.
The US Border Patrol union Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz., says the total
number of illegal immigrants in the US today is between 12 million
and 15 million.
The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in
Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized
migrants"
live in the US today. It bases its numbers on the "Current Population
Survey," a monthly assessment of about 50,000 households jointly
conducted by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.
In addition, Bear Stearns found, these new undocumented workers are
sending home significant amounts of money, suggesting that their
numbers
are considerably higher than official estimates. "Between 1995 and
2003,
the official tally of Mexicans has climbed 56 percent, and median
weekly
wage has increased by 10 percent," the researchers found. "Yet total
remittances jumped 199 percent over the same period. Even considering
the declining costs of money transfers, the growth of remittances
remains
astounding."
>
> California: 2,209,000 illegal aliens
> Washington: 136,000 illegal aliens
> Total: 6,994,000
> California: 2,209,000 illegal aliens
> Washington: 136,000 illegal aliens
> Latest available data - 2000 Census.
Good thing illegal Mexican peasants are so careful about getting
vaccinated...
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0516/p01s02-ussc.html
"Depending on the source, the numbers range widely - from about
7 million up to 20 million or more.
Nailing down such figures is impossible. Even settling on a ballpark
figure is difficult given the official sources: the US Census,
apprehensions
along the US-Mexico border, and social service agencies. For one
thing,
illegal immigrants avoid responding to census questionnaires, states a
2005 report by Bear Stearns Asset Management Inc. in New York.
Based on the national census in 2000, the US Census Bureau puts
the estimate of illegal immigrants at 8.7 million. As of 2003, the US
Citizenship and Immigration Services put the number at 7 million.
Since then, United States immigration officials have said the number
has grown by as much as 500,000 a year.
Those closest to the fight to protect US borders say the figure is
higher.
The US Border Patrol union Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz., says the total
number of illegal immigrants in the US today is between 12 million
and 15 million.
The Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research organization in
Washington, estimates 11.5 million to 12 million "unauthorized
migrants"
live in the US today. It bases its numbers on the "Current Population
Survey," a monthly assessment of about 50,000 households jointly
conducted by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Census Bureau.
In addition, Bear Stearns found, these new undocumented workers are
sending home significant amounts of money, suggesting that their
numbers
are considerably higher than official estimates. "Between 1995 and
2003,
the official tally of Mexicans has climbed 56 percent, and median
weekly
wage has increased by 10 percent," the researchers found. "Yet total
remittances jumped 199 percent over the same period. Even considering
the declining costs of money transfers, the growth of remittances
remains
astounding."
Barb May
Jul 26, 2012, 7:28:20 PM7/26/12
to
Sancho Panza wrote:
> On 7/25/2012 3:01 PM, Barb May wrote:
>> Sancho Panza wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>>> to immunize their children
>>>>
>>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>>
>> You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
>> for something.
>>
>> FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping
>> cough and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal
>> immigration:
>
> So you say that illegal immigrants do receive all their vaccinations.
strawman alert
> On 7/25/2012 3:01 PM, Barb May wrote:
>> Sancho Panza wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>>> to immunize their children
>>>>
>>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>>
>> You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
>> for something.
>>
>> FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping
>> cough and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal
>> immigration:
>
> So you say that illegal immigrants do receive all their vaccinations.
--
Barb
Barb May
Jul 26, 2012, 7:34:54 PM7/26/12
to
point.
It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
the epidemic.
http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100505/more-parents-refuse-delay-childs-vaccination
May 5, 2010 -- In 2008, 39% of parents refused or delayed giving at
least one routine vaccine to their children, up from 22% just five years
earlier, the CDC reports...Many of the parents who delayed or refused
vaccinations worried about whether the vaccines were safe or effective:
27% said too many shots were recommended.
26% questioned whether vaccines really worked.
25% cited worries that vaccines might cause autism.
24% worried about side effects.
The above figures are four years old, but all indications are that the
number of parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children has
continued to increase.
--
Barb
Sancho Panza
Jul 26, 2012, 8:55:11 PM7/26/12
to
pertussis pathogen. That is preposterous on its face.
Sancho Panza
Jul 26, 2012, 9:01:36 PM7/26/12
to
On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
> the epidemic.
That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
> the epidemic.
countries with socialized medicine. In this case, you are trying to say
the California climate equals the Washington climate. Maybe you have
never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
precipitation figures.
>
> http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100505/more-parents-refuse-delay-childs-vaccination
> May 5, 2010 -- In 2008, 39% of parents refused or delayed giving at
> least one routine vaccine to their children, up from 22% just five years
> earlier, the CDC reports...Many of the parents who delayed or refused
> vaccinations worried about whether the vaccines were safe or effective:
> 27% said too many shots were recommended.
> 26% questioned whether vaccines really worked.
> 25% cited worries that vaccines might cause autism.
> 24% worried about side effects.
>
> The above figures are four years old, but all indications are that the
> number of parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children has
> continued to increase.
That does not do anything to bolster your argument. It does not have the
> http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100505/more-parents-refuse-delay-childs-vaccination
> May 5, 2010 -- In 2008, 39% of parents refused or delayed giving at
> least one routine vaccine to their children, up from 22% just five years
> earlier, the CDC reports...Many of the parents who delayed or refused
> vaccinations worried about whether the vaccines were safe or effective:
> 27% said too many shots were recommended.
> 26% questioned whether vaccines really worked.
> 25% cited worries that vaccines might cause autism.
> 24% worried about side effects.
>
> The above figures are four years old, but all indications are that the
> number of parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children has
> continued to increase.
specific figures for Washington or California. It says "delayed or
refused" without breaking down the answers the survey obviously had.
This is crap science twisted and contorted to throw out some figures
that fit a narrow agenda.
Message has been deleted
Barb May
Jul 27, 2012, 1:07:52 PM7/27/12
to
Fair Play wrote:
>
> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>
> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
Well done!
I would just add that "Sancho's" claiming that the difference in
infection rates is somehow related to climate is only interesting
because it's insane...or laughably dishonest.
--
Barb
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>>
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
>>> times more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more
>>> cases of whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming
>>> that the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration.
>>> Meanwhile, the recent trend in refusing to vaccinate children based
>>> on the fear that inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited
>>> as a direct cause of the epidemic.
>>
>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>> countries with socialized medicine.
>
> She is saying nothing of the kind.
> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>>
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
>>> times more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more
>>> cases of whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming
>>> that the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration.
>>> Meanwhile, the recent trend in refusing to vaccinate children based
>>> on the fear that inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited
>>> as a direct cause of the epidemic.
>>
>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>> countries with socialized medicine.
>
>
> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>
> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
>
>> In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals
>> the Washington climate. Maybe you have never been in either, but
>> they are worlds apart. Just look at
>> precipitation figures.
>
> She is saying no such thing.
>> In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals
>> the Washington climate. Maybe you have never been in either, but
>> they are worlds apart. Just look at
>> precipitation figures.
>
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
Well done!
I would just add that "Sancho's" claiming that the difference in
infection rates is somehow related to climate is only interesting
because it's insane...or laughably dishonest.
--
Barb
Barb May
Jul 27, 2012, 1:08:14 PM7/27/12
to
Sancho Panza wrote:
> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>
>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
>> times more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more
>> cases of whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming
>> that the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration.
>> Meanwhile, the recent trend in refusing to vaccinate children based
>> on the fear that inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited
>> as a direct cause of the epidemic.
>
> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
> countries with socialized medicine.
Wait, how is that baloney?
> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>
>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
>> times more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more
>> cases of whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming
>> that the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration.
>> Meanwhile, the recent trend in refusing to vaccinate children based
>> on the fear that inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited
>> as a direct cause of the epidemic.
>
> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
> countries with socialized medicine.
Oh, I get it. Wingnuts say it's not fair to compare countries with
universal healthcare against a country that has over 16% of its
population without any health insurance, because that would be a good
argument for universal healthcare -- and we certainly can't have that.
--
Barb
Barb May
Jul 27, 2012, 1:14:16 PM7/27/12
to
--
Barb
Bill Steele
Jul 27, 2012, 2:46:33 PM7/27/12
to
In article <juuhu0$15p$1...@dont-email.me>,
All of this falls in the same category as the statement that the
intrusion of killer bees in the U.S. has increased since abortion was
legalized.
intrusion of killer bees in the U.S. has increased since abortion was
legalized.
Bill Steele
Jul 27, 2012, 2:49:44 PM7/27/12
to
In article <juuiag$3i2$1...@dont-email.me>,
Any sentence beginning with "So you say that..." when the person didn't
say it is a strawman.
However, looking at vaccination rates would be a useful datum.
say it is a strawman.
However, looking at vaccination rates would be a useful datum.
Sancho Panza
Jul 27, 2012, 4:22:05 PM7/27/12
to
side obviously has no interest in any facts that might contradict its
concrete prejudices. In the meantime, the pathetic study falls flat on
its face and the OP can only throw ad hominen crap.
Sancho Panza
Jul 27, 2012, 4:24:22 PM7/27/12
to
by you and the other two posters is fully expected from partisan hacks.
If any of you come up with some truly scientific research, be sure to
post it here.
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 27, 2012, 7:26:24 PM7/27/12
to
On 7/27/2012 6:06 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:24:22 -0400, Sancho Panza
> When you come up with a shred of evidence for your racist diatribes
> feel free to present it.
You are utterly unable to respond to the clear and specific points that
have been raised, leaving just a puerile epithet.
>
> It's hardly rocket science.
Two major fallacies are being propagated here. First is that
environmental and demographic factors have no effects whatsoever on
health. Second is that the number of illegal immigrants in Washington is
not significant, a contention that flies in the face that Washington is
hotbed of the sanctuary cities movement.
SANCTUARY CITIES AND STATES
INFORMATION RESOURCE
WASHINGTON HAS ONE OR MORE CITIES OFFERING
ILLEGAL SANCTUARY
Seattle, Washington
Martin Luther King County, Washington
King County Council protects public safety and health by ensuring all
residents have access to services
November 9, 2009
The Metropolitan King County Council acted today to formally adopt
policies that enhance public safety and public health throughout King
County. Under the legislation, all King County residents, regardless of
immigration status, can now feel safe in coming forward to report
crimes, assist in police investigations and seek preventive medical
treatment, protecting the public at large and saving taxpayer dollars.
“I want to thank the coalition of community groups and the Executive’s
Office for bringing this issue to the Council’s attention,” said
Councilmember Larry Gossett, prime sponsor of the legislation. “With
this legislation, we have taken one more step forward in immigration
reform.” ICE releases workers arrested in Washington raid that drew
attention of Obama administration
By Associated Press, March 31, 2009
SEATTLE (AP) — Many of the 28 workers arrested by immigration agents
last month in a northwest Washington raid have been released and given
permission to work, in another sign of how the Obama administration is
handling illegal immigration differently than its predecessor. Supreme
Court hears immigrant's ID theft case
By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer, February 23, 2009
WASHINGTON - Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa, an undocumented worker from
Mexico, made a curious and undeniably bad decision. After working under
an assumed name for six years, he decided to use his real name and
exchanged one set of phony identification numbers for another.
The change made his employer suspicious and the authorities were called
in. The old numbers were made up, but the new ones he bought happened to
belong to real people. Federal prosecutors said that was enough to label
Flores-Figueroa an identity thief. State GOP: No automatic citizenship
for kids born in U.S. to illegal immigrants
By Andrew Garber for the Seattle Times, June 1, 2008
SPOKANE — The state Republican Party adopted a platform Saturday that
includes a provision aimed at opposing automatic citizenship for babies
born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants.
The state party approved a similar platform plank at its 2006 convention
that proved controversial. The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
recognizes citizenship for all persons born in the United States. The
faces of illegal immigration For inmates, a final day in Wenatchee
By Jaime Adame for Wenatchee World, May 16, 2008
Up close, the faces of illegal immigration do not all look alike. Two
were boyish, another had a beard turned mostly gray.
All six men, however, were led outside Wednesday morning to a van parked
in the loading area of Chelan County Regional Justice Center.
Their lives in the days or weeks prior had included run-ins with the law
and time spent in jail. Those sentences had been served, but, as a
result of an aggressive federal push to identify criminal immigrants
held in jails or facing charges in court, the men — all Mexican
nationals — were headed from jail to a federal detention center in Tacoma.
--http://www.sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_washington.htm
>
> It's a parting gift from the last Republican Administration, yet
> another Bush Billionaire's tax cuts chicken coming home to roost .
That's it. Blame it all on Bush without even trying to find out when the
increase began. Maybe it is time to explain why yYou and your two
uninformed cites do not point to other states.
>
> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>
> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
stated political ax grinding.
>
>
> Cutbacks Hurt a State’s Response to Whooping Cough
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/health/policy/whooping-cough-epidemic-hits-washington-state.html?ref=centersfordiseasecontrolandprevention
>
> Published: May 12, 2012
>
> MOUNT VERNON, Wash. — Whooping cough, or pertussis, a highly
> infectious respiratory disease once considered doomed by science, has
> struck Washington State this spring with a severity that health
> officials say could surpass the toll of any year since the 1940s,
> before a vaccine went into wide use.
>
> Although no deaths have been reported so far this year, the state has
> declared an epidemic and public health officials say the numbers are
> staggering: 1,284 cases through early May, the most in at least three
> decades and 10 times last year’s total at this time, 128.
>
> The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession, which
> has left state and local health departments on the front lines of
> defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts.
>
> Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the
> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita —
> the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
> gone.
>
> international paradox, spending more but getting less.
>
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/what-we-can-learn-from-third-world-health-care/
>
> With all the most advanced technology and equipment, spending far more
> on health care than any other nation — a whopping $2.6 trillion
> annually, or over 17 percent of our gross domestic product — the
> United States consistently underperforms on some of the most important
> health indicators.
>
> Our infant mortality rates, for example, are worse than those in
> countries like Hungary, Cuba and Slovenia. Our life expectancy rates
> are not much better; in global rankings, we sit within spitting
> distance of Cuba, Chile and Libya
>
> For nearly three decades, Partners in Health, for example, has
> delivered consistently high-quality care to more than 2.5 million
> people in a dozen countries like Haiti, Rwanda and Peru, places with
> widespread poverty, scarce numbers of providers and no health care
> infrastructure.
>
> But they have managed to achieve, among other successes, the highest
> rate of cure of multidrug-resistant tuberculosis in the world and
> better rates of adherence to treatment regimens and follow-up than in
> much of the United States
>
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 16:24:22 -0400, Sancho Panza
> feel free to present it.
You are utterly unable to respond to the clear and specific points that
have been raised, leaving just a puerile epithet.
>
> It's hardly rocket science.
Two major fallacies are being propagated here. First is that
environmental and demographic factors have no effects whatsoever on
health. Second is that the number of illegal immigrants in Washington is
not significant, a contention that flies in the face that Washington is
hotbed of the sanctuary cities movement.
SANCTUARY CITIES AND STATES
INFORMATION RESOURCE
WASHINGTON HAS ONE OR MORE CITIES OFFERING
ILLEGAL SANCTUARY
Seattle, Washington
Martin Luther King County, Washington
King County Council protects public safety and health by ensuring all
residents have access to services
November 9, 2009
The Metropolitan King County Council acted today to formally adopt
policies that enhance public safety and public health throughout King
County. Under the legislation, all King County residents, regardless of
immigration status, can now feel safe in coming forward to report
crimes, assist in police investigations and seek preventive medical
treatment, protecting the public at large and saving taxpayer dollars.
“I want to thank the coalition of community groups and the Executive’s
Office for bringing this issue to the Council’s attention,” said
Councilmember Larry Gossett, prime sponsor of the legislation. “With
this legislation, we have taken one more step forward in immigration
reform.” ICE releases workers arrested in Washington raid that drew
attention of Obama administration
By Associated Press, March 31, 2009
SEATTLE (AP) — Many of the 28 workers arrested by immigration agents
last month in a northwest Washington raid have been released and given
permission to work, in another sign of how the Obama administration is
handling illegal immigration differently than its predecessor. Supreme
Court hears immigrant's ID theft case
By MARK SHERMAN, Associated Press Writer, February 23, 2009
WASHINGTON - Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa, an undocumented worker from
Mexico, made a curious and undeniably bad decision. After working under
an assumed name for six years, he decided to use his real name and
exchanged one set of phony identification numbers for another.
The change made his employer suspicious and the authorities were called
in. The old numbers were made up, but the new ones he bought happened to
belong to real people. Federal prosecutors said that was enough to label
Flores-Figueroa an identity thief. State GOP: No automatic citizenship
for kids born in U.S. to illegal immigrants
By Andrew Garber for the Seattle Times, June 1, 2008
SPOKANE — The state Republican Party adopted a platform Saturday that
includes a provision aimed at opposing automatic citizenship for babies
born in the U.S. to illegal immigrants.
The state party approved a similar platform plank at its 2006 convention
that proved controversial. The 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
recognizes citizenship for all persons born in the United States. The
faces of illegal immigration For inmates, a final day in Wenatchee
By Jaime Adame for Wenatchee World, May 16, 2008
Up close, the faces of illegal immigration do not all look alike. Two
were boyish, another had a beard turned mostly gray.
All six men, however, were led outside Wednesday morning to a van parked
in the loading area of Chelan County Regional Justice Center.
Their lives in the days or weeks prior had included run-ins with the law
and time spent in jail. Those sentences had been served, but, as a
result of an aggressive federal push to identify criminal immigrants
held in jails or facing charges in court, the men — all Mexican
nationals — were headed from jail to a federal detention center in Tacoma.
--http://www.sanctuarycities.info/sanctuary_state_washington.htm
>
> It's a parting gift from the last Republican Administration, yet
> another Bush Billionaire's tax cuts chicken coming home to roost .
That's it. Blame it all on Bush without even trying to find out when the
increase began. Maybe it is time to explain why yYou and your two
uninformed cites do not point to other states.
>
> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>
> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
stated political ax grinding.
>
>
> Cutbacks Hurt a State’s Response to Whooping Cough
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/health/policy/whooping-cough-epidemic-hits-washington-state.html?ref=centersfordiseasecontrolandprevention
>
> Published: May 12, 2012
>
> MOUNT VERNON, Wash. — Whooping cough, or pertussis, a highly
> infectious respiratory disease once considered doomed by science, has
> struck Washington State this spring with a severity that health
> officials say could surpass the toll of any year since the 1940s,
> before a vaccine went into wide use.
>
> Although no deaths have been reported so far this year, the state has
> declared an epidemic and public health officials say the numbers are
> staggering: 1,284 cases through early May, the most in at least three
> decades and 10 times last year’s total at this time, 128.
>
> The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession, which
> has left state and local health departments on the front lines of
> defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts.
>
> Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the
> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita —
> the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
> gone.
>
> international paradox, spending more but getting less.
>
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/26/what-we-can-learn-from-third-world-health-care/
>
> With all the most advanced technology and equipment, spending far more
> on health care than any other nation — a whopping $2.6 trillion
> annually, or over 17 percent of our gross domestic product — the
> United States consistently underperforms on some of the most important
> health indicators.
>
> Our infant mortality rates, for example, are worse than those in
> countries like Hungary, Cuba and Slovenia. Our life expectancy rates
> are not much better; in global rankings, we sit within spitting
> distance of Cuba, Chile and Libya
>
> For nearly three decades, Partners in Health, for example, has
> delivered consistently high-quality care to more than 2.5 million
> people in a dozen countries like Haiti, Rwanda and Peru, places with
> widespread poverty, scarce numbers of providers and no health care
> infrastructure.
>
> But they have managed to achieve, among other successes, the highest
> rate of cure of multidrug-resistant tuberculosis in the world and
> better rates of adherence to treatment regimens and follow-up than in
> much of the United States
>
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 27, 2012, 10:29:12 PM7/27/12
to
On 7/27/2012 7:25 AM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>>
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
>>> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
>>> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
>>> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
>>> the epidemic.
>>
>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>> countries with socialized medicine.
>
>>
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
>>> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
>>> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
>>> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
>>> the epidemic.
>>
>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>> countries with socialized medicine.
>
> She is saying nothing of the kind.
>
> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>
> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
Where is your cite to support that claim the different rates of whooping
>
> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>
> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
cough between California and Washington?
>
>> In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals the Washington climate. Maybe you have
>> never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
>> precipitation figures.
>
> She is saying no such thing.
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
As a matter of fact, I have worked on public immunization programs, some
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
very successful. Have you?
Sancho Panza
Jul 27, 2012, 10:38:40 PM7/27/12
to
On 7/27/2012 8:24 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:26:24 -0400, Sancho Panza
> No such thing has been suggested
Where do the cites and posts here take into account environmental and
demographic factors?
>
> It certainly hasn't been shown to have increased whooping cough
> infections as you so disingenuously suggested.
>
> It would seem not but thanks for showing the so called sanctuary
> DECREASES risks to public health rather than increasing them.
If you actually read what this thread has said about that, you would
have seen this utterly bizarre assertion:
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
times
>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>> whooping cough.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> It's a parting gift from the last Republican Administration, yet
>>> another Bush Billionaire's tax cuts chicken coming home to roost .
>>
>> That's it. Blame it all on Bush without even trying to find out when the
>> increase began. Maybe it is time to explain why yYou and your two
>> uninformed cites do not point to other states.
>
> Because the topic is the whooping cough epidemic and not your foul
> racist propaganda?
>
> Neither The Center for Disease Control nor Dr Liebrand are uninformed.
>
> The county’s top medical officer, Dr. Howard Leibrand, who is also a
> full-time emergency room physician, said that in the crushing triage
> of a combined health crisis and budget crisis, he had gone so far as
> to urge local physicians to stop testing patients to confirm a
> whooping cough diagnosis.
He is not a qualified epidemiologist or public health expert. If he was,
he would have a good chance of seeing the critical health importance of
factors other than those his patients present. In this instance, he
makes no bones about his quest to raise his budget. The move to stop
testing is nothing short of really weird.
>
>>
>>>
>>> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
>>> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
>>> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>>>
>>> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
>>
>> Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
>> don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
>> stated political ax grinding.
>
> The point is funding for combating lethal threats to public health
> have been axed in favor of millionaire's tax cuts and corporate
> welfare.
Got a cite for that pure by entirely empty talking point?
> Unsurprisingly the fact that Third World countries are getting better
> health care outcomes than the US doesn't even give you pause for
> thought.
If you are so bothered by all the evil ills in the U.S., it might be a
good idea to pick one of those underdeveloped countries (preferably one
that conforms to your politics) and visit it, with an eye toward a
longer stay.
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 19:26:24 -0400, Sancho Panza
Where do the cites and posts here take into account environmental and
demographic factors?
>
>
>> Second is that the number of illegal immigrants in Washington is
>> not significant,
>
> /significant/ in respect to what?
>
>> Second is that the number of illegal immigrants in Washington is
>> not significant,
>
>
> It certainly hasn't been shown to have increased whooping cough
> infections as you so disingenuously suggested.
>
>> a contention that flies in the face that Washington is
>> hotbed of the sanctuary cities movement.
>
> Do you understand what you have just posted?
>> a contention that flies in the face that Washington is
>> hotbed of the sanctuary cities movement.
>
>
> It would seem not but thanks for showing the so called sanctuary
> DECREASES risks to public health rather than increasing them.
If you actually read what this thread has said about that, you would
have seen this utterly bizarre assertion:
>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15
times
>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>> whooping cough.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "King County Council protects public safety and health by ensuring all
> residents have access to services.
>
> The Metropolitan King County Council acted today to formally adopt
> policies that enhance public safety and public health throughout King
> County.
>
> Under the legislation, all King County residents, regardless of
> immigration status, can now feel safe in coming forward to report
> crimes, assist in police investigations and seek preventive medical
> treatment, protecting the public at large and saving taxpayer
> dollars."
Isn't that heartwarming! Too bad it doesn't seem to be working.
> The Metropolitan King County Council acted today to formally adopt
> policies that enhance public safety and public health throughout King
> County.
>
> Under the legislation, all King County residents, regardless of
> immigration status, can now feel safe in coming forward to report
> crimes, assist in police investigations and seek preventive medical
> treatment, protecting the public at large and saving taxpayer
> dollars."
>
>
>>> It's a parting gift from the last Republican Administration, yet
>>> another Bush Billionaire's tax cuts chicken coming home to roost .
>>
>> That's it. Blame it all on Bush without even trying to find out when the
>> increase began. Maybe it is time to explain why yYou and your two
>> uninformed cites do not point to other states.
>
> racist propaganda?
>
> Neither The Center for Disease Control nor Dr Liebrand are uninformed.
>
> The county’s top medical officer, Dr. Howard Leibrand, who is also a
> full-time emergency room physician, said that in the crushing triage
> of a combined health crisis and budget crisis, he had gone so far as
> to urge local physicians to stop testing patients to confirm a
> whooping cough diagnosis.
He is not a qualified epidemiologist or public health expert. If he was,
he would have a good chance of seeing the critical health importance of
factors other than those his patients present. In this instance, he
makes no bones about his quest to raise his budget. The move to stop
testing is nothing short of really weird.
>
>>
>>>
>>> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
>>> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
>>> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>>>
>>> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
>>
>> Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
>> don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
>> stated political ax grinding.
>
> have been axed in favor of millionaire's tax cuts and corporate
> welfare.
Got a cite for that pure by entirely empty talking point?
> Unsurprisingly the fact that Third World countries are getting better
> health care outcomes than the US doesn't even give you pause for
> thought.
If you are so bothered by all the evil ills in the U.S., it might be a
good idea to pick one of those underdeveloped countries (preferably one
that conforms to your politics) and visit it, with an eye toward a
longer stay.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Gunner Asch
Jul 28, 2012, 8:40:04 AM7/28/12
to
On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 12:01:57 -0700, "Barb May"
Why is that? Are you a typical Leftwing Racist and Bigot?
Yes..it appears that you are.
Gunner
--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"
She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
<bar...@nonofyourbusinessx.tv> wrote:
>Sancho Panza wrote:
>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>> to immunize their children
>>>
>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>
>You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
>for something.
>
>FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping cough
>and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal immigration:
>
>Sancho Panza wrote:
>> On 7/24/2012 5:02 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing
>>>> to immunize their children
>>>
>> By default, we grant health passes to illegal aliens. Yet many
>> illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American medicine fought
>> and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis,
>> malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.
>
>You racists come out of the woodwork every time immigration is blamed
>for something.
>
>FACT: Washington state is in the middle of an epidemic of whooping cough
>and has the most reported cases. The cause is NOT illegal immigration:
>
>http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/07/23/anti-vaccine-movement-causes-the-worst-whooping-cough-epidemic-in-70-years/
>"The great northwest of the U.S. is known for its natural beauty. It's
>also a high-tech region with a highly educated public - not exactly the
>kind of place one would expect to fall for the anti-science rhetoric of
>the anti-vaccine movement. But it has. The anti-vaxxers have convinced
>a frighteningly high number of parents in Washington State to withhold
>vaccines from their children. A story in The Seattle Times last year
>reported that "Washington [state] parents are choosing not to vaccinate
>their kindergartners at a rate higher than anywhere else in the
> country."
>
>http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants
># 1 California: 2,209,000
># 2 Texas: 1,041,000
># 3 New York: 489,000
># 4 Illinois: 432,000
># 5 Florida: 337,000
># 6 Arizona: 283,000
># 7 Georgia: 228,000
># 8 New Jersey: 221,000
># 9 North Carolina: 206,000
># 10 Colorado: 144,000
># 11 Washington: 136,000
>
>
>"The great northwest of the U.S. is known for its natural beauty. It's
>also a high-tech region with a highly educated public - not exactly the
>kind of place one would expect to fall for the anti-science rhetoric of
>the anti-vaccine movement. But it has. The anti-vaxxers have convinced
>a frighteningly high number of parents in Washington State to withhold
>vaccines from their children. A story in The Seattle Times last year
>reported that "Washington [state] parents are choosing not to vaccinate
>their kindergartners at a rate higher than anywhere else in the
> country."
>
>http://www.statemaster.com/graph/peo_est_num_of_ill_imm-people-estimated-number-illegal-immigrants
># 1 California: 2,209,000
># 2 Texas: 1,041,000
># 3 New York: 489,000
># 4 Illinois: 432,000
># 5 Florida: 337,000
># 6 Arizona: 283,000
># 7 Georgia: 228,000
># 8 New Jersey: 221,000
># 9 North Carolina: 206,000
># 10 Colorado: 144,000
># 11 Washington: 136,000
>
>
>California: 2,209,000 illegal aliens
>Washington: 136,000 illegal aliens
>
>Washington: 136,000 illegal aliens
>
>http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57475858-10391704/cdc-us-whooping-cough-cases-rising-at-epidemic-rate/?tag=mncol;lst;1
>"Washington state has the largest amount of reported cases, with more
>than 3,000 by the end of last week."
Yet you ignore Chargas, TB and a host of others.
>"Washington state has the largest amount of reported cases, with more
>than 3,000 by the end of last week."
Why is that? Are you a typical Leftwing Racist and Bigot?
Yes..it appears that you are.
Gunner
--
"I was eating breakfast with my 13-year-old granddaughter
and I asked her, "What day is the 20th of February?"
She said "It's President's Day!"
(She is a smart kid.)
I asked "What does President's Day mean?"
I was waiting for something about Washington or Lincoln .... etc.
She replied, "President's Day is when President Obama steps out
of the White House, and if he sees his shadow we have
one more year of unemployment."
You know, it hurts when hot coffee spurts out your nose..."
Gunner Asch
Jul 28, 2012, 8:44:06 AM7/28/12
to
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/impacts_of_illegal_immigration_diseases.html
Legal immigrants are required to have medical screening to ensure that
they do not bring any contagious diseases into the United States.
Illegal aliens are not screened and many are carrying horrific third
world diseases that do not belong in the USA. Many of these diseases are
highly contagious and will infect citizens that come in contact with an
infected illegal alien. This has already happened in restaurants,
schools, and police forces.
Malaria was eradicated from the USA in the 1940s but recently there were
outbreaks in southern California, New Jersey, New York City, and
Houston. Additionally, Malaria tainted blood has been discovered in the
blood supply.
Dengue was first recognized in the 1950s, affects most Asian countries
and has become a leading cause of death among children in the infected
areas. Heretofore unknown in the US, Dengue outbreaks have now occurred
in the United States.
Leprosy, a scourge of Biblical days, is caused by a bacillus agent and
is now know as Hansen's Disease. In the 40 years prior to 2002, there
were only 900 total cases of leprosy in the US. In the following three
years there have been 9,000 cases and most were illegal aliens.
As noted in the article Leprosy in America: new cause for concern by Dr.
William Levis, head of the New York Hansen's Disease Clinic. "It's
creeping into the U.S. ... This is a real phenomenon. It's a public
health threat. New York is endemic now, and nobody's noticed." In the
same article, Dr. Terry Williams, who runs a Houston-based clinic
serving leprosy patients across southern Texas, said that the bulk of
the cases treated by his clinic were immigrants. "A lot of our cases are
imported," he said. "We see patients from everywhere--Africa, the
Philippines, China, South America." (emphasis added)
Hepatitis A-E is a viral infection that primarily attacks the liver. In
2004, more than 650 people contacted Hepatitis A at a single Chi-Chi's
Mexican restaurant in Pennsylvania. Four latter died. Hepatitis B is one
of the major diseases of mankind and is a serious global public health
problem. It is estimated that 2 BILLION people are infected and about
one million persons die each year. The new vaccine is only 95% effective
in preventing an infection and will not cure a person who already has
Hepatitis B, which results in a lifelong infection, cirrhosis (scarring)
of the liver, liver cancer, liver failure, and early death. An estimated
1.3 million people in the US are currently infected. No vaccine is
currently available to prevent Hepatitis C-E and treatment for chronic
Hepatitis C costs about $1,500 per person.
Tuberculosis (TB) kills approximately 2 million people each year. It is
estimated that between 2002 and 2020, approximately 1,000,000,000 people
will be newly infected, over 150 million people will get sick, and 36
million will die. TB is a highly contagious disease. Like the common
cold, it spreads through the air. When infectious people cough, sneeze,
talk or spit, they propel TB germs, known as bacilli, into the air. Each
person with active TB will infect on average between 10 and 15 people
every year.
The United States currently has one of the lowest rates of TB in the
world. Mexico has 10 times the rate of prevalence and many African
countries along with Afghanistan, Cambodia, the Philippines, and
Indonesia have rates that are 100 – 150 times higher. Making matters
worse, a few years ago a Multi-Drug-Resistant (MDR) strain of TB has
emerged that is resistant to all standard anti-TB drugs. Treating a
single case of MDR TB costs over $250,000 and as much as $1,200,000 per
person, and even with treatment about half of the patients with MDR-TB
prematurely die.
In an article in the Journal of the American Medical Assn., Dr. Reuben
Granich, a lead investigator for the CDC commented on MDR-TB:
"Evidence of it has surfaced in 38 of 61 California health
jurisdictions, and it could ‘threaten the efficacy of TB control
efforts,' Granich said. The infected were said to be four times as
likely to die from the disease and twice as likely to transmit the
disease to others ... Reluctant to label the infected as ‘illegal' or
even ‘undocumented' aliens, the report notes that of the 407 known cases
of MDR-TB, 84% were ‘foreign-born' patients, mainly from Mexico and the
Philippines who'd been in the U.S. less than five years. The percentage
of TB cases among the ‘foreign-born' jumped from 29% in 1993 to 53% as
of last year."
Recently, there was a TB Outbreak In Oklahoma City in a hospital
affecting thousands.
Hopefully, this will not be the new extensively drug-resistant XDR
strain just being brought in by illegal aliens (now 4% of US cases) and
which is currently impossible to cure at any cost. In any case, it would
not be surprising to find that the source of the outbreak is an illegal
alien working in the hospital or an infected resident worker who became
infected through contact with an infected illegal alien since the TB
rate for residents in the USA is very low.
For more information on TB and the link to illegal aliens, see:
Is CDC covering up skyrocketing TB rate?
Immigration helps diseases spread in Valley
Mayor favors tougher stance against illegals.
Chagas Disease (American Trypanosomiasis), endemic to South and Central
America, is spread by infected triatomine bugs, known as the "kissing
bugs," that bite people. It was unknown in the United States until
fairly recently. It is now estimated that between 100,000 and 500,000
people in the US have Chagas Disease. Who is infected? Mostly illegal
aliens.
Since Chagas Disease is basically unknown outside of the illegal alien
community most doctors won't recognize it and the blood supply just
started being screened for it. Most cases of Chagas Disease that occur
in patients other than illegal aliens are thought to be contracted from
tainted blood – blood sold by illegal aliens with Chagas Disease before
the blood supply started being tested for it as of August of 2006.
HIV The number of illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants with
HIV or AIDS is unknown, mostly because researchers rarely ask about
immigration status. However, it is known that the rate of HIV infection
among Latino women in California is about twice the rate of white women.
At one free California health clinic, all of the women have HIV or AIDS.
Most are Mexican or Central American "immigrants."
Then there is Schistosomiasis, Guinea Worm Infection, Whooping cough,
Cysticercosis, Morgellon's, and a host of others.
All these diseases and pathogens, and a plethora of others that are not
endemic to the US, are being brought in by unscreened illegal aliens who
then spread them to an unsuspecting population. These diseases will give
you something to think about the next time you are eating at a
restaurant with the grunt work being done by illegal aliens who didn't
have medical screening before preparing and handling your food.
As recently reported in Hepatitis Risk for East Asians in New York,
among east Asian immigrants in New York City, one person in seven
carries the Hepatitis B virus and that researchers at New York Univ.
School of Medicine, found that 15% of east Asians in New York - as many
as 100,000 people - are chronic hepatitis carriers, with the rate
highest among immigrants from China. That infection rate is 35 times the
rate found in the general population. The article did not mention how
many of the infected people were illegal aliens but odds are the vast
majority were.
Health reporter Bill Sardi noted:
"Recently an outbreak of hepatitis traced to Chi-Chi's Mexican
restaurant, in Pennsylvania was inexplicably traced to contaminated
green onions, not the most obvious cause, undocumented food workers who
harbored Hepatitis. For the most part, Hepatitis is a blood-borne, not a
food-borne disease. The Hepatitis outbreak infected over 650
individuals, caused 9,000 Americans to undergo immune globulin shots,
and killed 4 people.
If Americans found out restaurants can commonly infect their
customers from food workers, it would be a serious blow to the
restaurant industry. Better blame the green onions. Let's concede the
onions, grown in Mexico, were contaminated from fecal material
containing Hepatitis. Did all the green onions imported from Mexico end
up in one single restaurant? There were no other outbreaks of Hepatitis
anywhere elsewhere from green onions. There were 13 restaurant workers
who had Hepatitis. They were the likely source of the transmitted
infection.
While the unions resist mandatory Hepatitis screening and
vaccination for food workers, the government mandates that newborn
babies be jabbed with Hepatitis vaccines before they can leave the
hospital. The logic in this defies understanding until one realizes that
newborn babies of immigrant families can more easily acquire Hepatitis
so all babies are given the vaccines."
As noted in a May 2006 article, Milford taking harsher stance against
illegals than Framingham, increased levels of TB are being noted and
some municipalities are finally starting to take action to protect their
citizens.
As unfortunate as it may be, the US can not bear the financial burden
for treating the world's sick, ill, and infected populace, but the Govt.
should be protecting American citizens from the diseases being brought
in by illegal aliens.
How many more citizens will come down with Hepatitis, Leprosy, E-coli,
or Chagas Disease from contact with an infected illegal alien before
something is done? How many school children must get TB before our
government takes action to protect them?
Remember the movie Alien and how the creature popped out of infected
bodies? The Guinea Worm is a mini-version. Maybe your kids can take
advantage of the experience on show & tell day.
If we screen legal aliens for contagious diseases, why are we allowing
unscreened and contagious illegal aliens to roam the country infecting
the citizenry?
Diseases - collateral damage from a "victimless crime" to save ten cents
on a head of lettuce.
Gunner Asch
Jul 28, 2012, 8:51:15 AM7/28/12
to
On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:06:07 -0700, Fair Play <us...@example.com> wrote:
>
>Here in Skagit County, about an hour�s drive north of Seattle � the
>hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita �
>the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
>Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
>gone.
>
>Here in Skagit County, about an hour�s drive north of Seattle � the
>hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita �
>the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
>Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
>gone.
Thats a fun one. Like watching Alien in small scale....
Gunner Asch
Jul 28, 2012, 8:55:50 AM7/28/12
to
http://www.health--savings--accounts.com/article-8-john.htm
By Dr. John C. Goodman
President & CE0
National Center for Policy Analysis
Five Myths to Socialized Medicine
In the United States there are about 14 million people - more than a
third of the uninsured - who are, in principle, eligible to get free
medical care by joining either the Medicaid program or the State
Children�s Health Insurance Program. And yet they don�t bother to
enroll.
To understand why they don�t, you might go to the emergency room of
Parkland Hospital in my hometown of Dallas. The uninsured and Medicaid
patients come there to get their medical care. They all see the same
doctors. They get the same treatment. If they�re admitted to the
hospital, they stay in the same beds. From the patient�s point of view,
there is no real reason to join Medicaid, because they get the same care
whether or not they are formally insured. The doctors and nurses get
paid the same regardless of who is enrolled in what plan. The only
people who really care whether or not someone is enrolled in Medicaid
are the hospital administrators, because that determines how they get
their money. So they actually have paid employees who go through the
emergency room and try to get people to sign up for Medicaid. Over half
the time they fail. Then they literally go hospital room by hospital
room, trying to get admitted patients to enroll in Medicaid. And even
then they don�t always succeed. Now, it�s not that unusual for people
to go to hospital emergency rooms for their care. It�s a common feature
of health systems around the world. It may not be an efficient way to
deliver health care, but the same thing happens in Toronto and London.
Canadians take pride in the fact that patients who get free care in
Toronto emergency rooms are �insured.� But in Dallas, we�re ashamed to
say that our patients are �uninsured", even though the care they receive
in Dallas is probably better than the care they get in Toronto.
MYTH: �A RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE�
People who believe in socialized medicine have come to believe many
myths. One is that socialized medicine gives you a right to health
care. If you ask the head of Parkland Hospital and his counterpart in
Toronto or London what the difference is in these systems, I think all
three would say that in Toronto and London people have a �right� to
health care, whereas in Dallas they do not. That is just not true. If
you�re a citizen of Canada, you don�t really have a right to any
particular health care service. You don�t have a right to heart
surgery. You don�t even have a right to a place in the waiting line. If
you�re the hundredth person waiting for heart surgery, you�re not
entitled to the hundredth surgery. Other people can and do get in ahead
of you. From time to time, even Americans go to Canada and jump the
queue, because Americans can do something that Canadians cannot -
Americans can pay for care. Canadian hospitals love to admit American
patients, because that means cash into their budgets. The British
government says that, at any one time, there are about a million people
waiting to get into hospitals. According to the Fraser Institute,
almost 900,000 Canadian patients are on the waiting list at any point in
time. And, according to the New Zealand government, 90,000 people are
on the waiting lists there. Those people constitute only about 1 to 2
percent of the population in those countries, but keep in mind that only
about 15 percent of the population actually enters a hospital each year.
Many of the people waiting are waiting in pain. Many are risking their
lives by waiting. And there is no market mechanism in these countries
to get care first to people who need it first.
MYTH: �HIGHER QUALITY�
Another myth has to do with the quality of care that patients receive.
British ministers of health have told British citizens for years that
their health system is the envy of the world. Canadian ministers of
health say much the same thing. In fact, Canadian and British doctors
see 50 percent more patients than American doctors do, and, as a
consequence, they have less time to spend with each patient. In
Britain, the typical general practitioner barely has time to take your
temperature and write a prescription. And even if they discover
something wrong with you, they may not have the technology to solve your
problem. Among people with chronic renal failure, only half as many
Canadians as Americans get dialysis, and only a third as many Britons on
a per capita basis. The American rate of coronary bypass surgeries is
three or four times what it is in Canada, and five times what it is in
Britain. Britain is the country that invented the CAT scanner, back in
the 1970s. For awhile it exported more than half the CAT scanners used
in the world. Yet they bought very few for their own citizens. Today,
Britain has half the number of CAT scanners per capita as we do in the
United States. A similar problem exists in Canada.
MYTH: �MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK�
Yet another myth is that although the United States spends more on
health care, we don�t get more. That argument is often supported by
pointing to life expectancy, which is not that much different among
developed countries, and infant mortality, which is actually higher in
the United States than it is in most other developed countries. What do
we get for our money? The first thing we need to do is separate those
phenomena that have little to do with health care from those that do.
In the United States, life expectancy at birth for African American men
is 68 years, while for Asian American men it�s 81 years. We find wide
differences in life expectancy among women, too. Nobody thinks that
those differences are due to the health care system. What, then, would
we want to look at if we really wanted to compare the efficacy of health
care systems? We would look at those conditions for which we know
medical services can make a real difference. Among women who are
diagnosed with breast cancer, only one fifth die in the United States,
compared to one third in France and Germany, and almost half in the
United Kingdom and New Zealand. Among men who are diagnosed with
prostate cancer, fewer than one fifth die in the United States, compared
to one fourth in Canada, almost half in France, and more than half in
the United Kingdom.
MYTH: �EQUAL ACCESS�
Perhaps no notion is more closely tied to national health insurance than
the idea of equal access to health care. Every prime minister of health
in Britain, from the day the National Health Service started, has said
that is the primary goal of the NHS. Similar things are said in Canada
and in other countries. The British government - unlike most other
governments - studies the problem from time to time to see what kind of
progress they�re making. In 1980, they had a major report that said,
essentially: �We really haven�t made very much progress in achieving
equality of access to health care in our country. In fact, it looks
like things are worse today, in 1980, than they were 30 years ago when
the British National Health Service was started." Everybody deplored
the results of that report, and they all promised to do better. There
were a lot of articles written, a lot of conferences, and a lot of
discussions. Another 10 years passed and they pondered another report,
which said that things had deteriorated further. Today we are long
overdue for a third report, but no one expects the situation to have
improved. It�s true that racial and ethnic minorities are underserved
in the United States. But we are hardly alone. In Canada, the
indigenous groups are the Cree and the Inuits. In New Zealand, they are
Maoris. In Australia, the Aborigines. Those populations have more
health care problems, shorter life expectancies, higher infant
mortality, more health care needs, and they get less health care. When
health care is rationed, racial and ethnic minorities do not usually do
well in the rationing scheme. A Canadian study showed vast inequalities
among the health regions of British Columbia. In some cases, there were
spending differences of 10 to 1 in services provided in one area
compared to another. That probably would not surprise most health
policy analysts; you just don�t usually get this kind of data. But if
we had the data, we would probably find similar inequalities in access
to health care all over the developed world. I�m especially interested
in the elderly, because I find that - not only in Britain and Canada,
but also in the United States - when people have to make decisions about
who is going to get care and who is not, they frequently choose the
younger patient. Surveys of the elderly show that senior citizens in
the United States say it�s much easier to get surgery, see doctors, see
specialists, and enter hospitals, than say seniors in other countries.
MYTH: �LESS RED TAPE�
Then we have the myth that national health insurance is an efficient way
to deliver health care. I hear this frequently repeated by advocates in
the United States. Probably the most telling statistic for hospitals is
average length of stay. In general, efficient hospitals get people in
and out more quickly. By that standard, the U.S. hospital sector is the
most efficient in the world. And I think by many other standards it
would not be much in dispute that the U.S. hospital sector is far more
efficient than the hospital sectors of other countries. In Britain,
where at any one time there are a million people waiting to get into
British hospitals, 15 percent of the beds are empty, and another 15
percent are filled with chronic patients who really don�t need the
services of hospital; they�re simply using the hospital as an expensive
nursing home. So, effectively, almost one-third of the beds are closed
off to acute care patients. A study compared Kaiser in California with
the NHS and concluded that, after you make all of the appropriate
adjustments, Kaiser spends about the same per capita on its enrollees as
Britain spends on its population. But the Kaiser enrollees were getting
more care, more access to specialists, and other services. We often
hear that Medicare and Medicaid are efficient. The government says
Medicaid only spends about 2 percent of its budget on administration.
But that ignores all the costs that are shifted to doctors and
hospitals. When you incorporate all those costs, it turns out that
actually Medicare is not very efficient at all.
WHAT�S MISSING IS CAPITALISM
While our health care system is more market-oriented than in most
industrialized nations, we don�t really have a free market in health
care in the United States. Half the spending is done by government.
Most of the rest is done by bureaucratic institutions. The cosmetic
surgery market is about the only market where patients are really
spending their own money. And guess what? It works like a real market.
People get package prices. They can compare prices. And over the
decade of the 1990s, the average price of cosmetic surgery actually went
down in real terms, even as there were all kinds of technological
innovations that we are told drive up costs else where. Most of what
I�m telling you here today I learned, not from right-wing critics of
national health insurance, but from people who believe in it. If you
look at my book, there are probably a thousand different references, and
95 percent of them are references to government reports, academic
studies, and newspaper investigations. And in almost every case, the
author of those reports is someone who believes in national health
insurance. No matter how many problems they document, no matter how
many failures they write about, they don�t give up their faith in the
system.
They all believe that all the failures that they write about can be
reformed away. They all believe that we just haven�t tried hard enough
to reform the system and make it work. Sadly, they are wrong.
Virtually all of these problems are inevitable consequences of the
politicization of medicine. Why do these systems over provide to the
healthy and under provide to the sick? Well, in the United States,
about 4 percent of the patients spend half the money. If you�re a
politician allocating health care dollars, you cannot afford to spend
half your money on 4 percent of the voters - 4 percent who may be too
sick to go to the polls and vote for you anyway. Why is the hospital
sector so inefficient? Because it�s in the self-interest of hospital
managers to be inefficient. The chronic care patients and the empty
beds are the cheap beds. It�s the acute care patients that cost money.
Why can the rich and powerful jump to the head of the waiting lines?
Because those are the people who control the sys-tem. They can change
the system. If members of parliament, the wealthy, and the powerful had
to wait for care along with everyone else, these systems would not last
for a minute.
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 9:37:23 AM7/28/12
to
On 7/28/2012 9:20 AM, Fair Play wrote:
>>> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita �
> reinstate the programs they administer the better doesn't it?
Sounds as if it would be a far better idea to hire and enable more ICE
personnel, especially after the union spoke out this week:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/07/border_patrol_agents_incensed_at_obama_dream_policy.html
This is pretty incredible. The union representing border patrol agents
is castigating the Obama administration over the exploitation of the
president's new DREAM policy by some illegal immigrants.
Fox News:
----------------
Union heads representing thousands of America's immigration agents
slammed the Obama administration Thursday over a policy they claim is
forcing officials to ignore the law and allowing illegal immigrants to
exploit the system.
In a startling allegation, the president of the union representing
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers claimed illegal immigrants
are "taking advantage" of a new directive allowing some undocumented
residents who came to the U.S. as children to stay in the country. Union
boss Chris Crane said the policy ends up allowing illegal immigrants to
avoid detention without any proof -- particularly so-called "dreamers,"
or those illegal immigrants who would benefit under the "DREAM Act"
proposal, which Congress has not passed but the administration has
partially implemented.
"Prosecutorial discretion for dreamers is solely based on the
individual's claims. Our orders are if an alien says they went to high
school, then let them go," he said at a press conference with GOP
senators. "Officers have been told that there is no burden for the alien
to prove anything. ... At this point we don't even know why DHS has
criteria at all, as there is no requirement or burden to prove anything
on the part of the alien.
"We believe that significant numbers of people who are not dreamers are
taking advantage of this practice to avoid arrest," he said.
Crane cited one case in which, he said, an immigrant facing criminal
charges was let go under the policy. Further, he complained that
officers are "under threat of losing their jobs" if they defy the policy.
----------------------
Lose their jobs for doing their jobs? Amazing. If anything shows that
this policy is politically driven, its how the administration is
implementing it. It's clear that the Obama administration is pandering
to the radical open borders crowd with this policy and to put those
brave men and women who place their lives on the line every time they go
to work in such an untenable position is simply unconscionable.
>
> Thank goodness the Affordable Health Care Act is kicking in soon so
> infected people can get treatment.
Yup, on my dime.
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 05:51:15 -0700, Gunner Asch<gunne...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:06:07 -0700, Fair Play<us...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here in Skagit County, about an hour�s drive north of Seattle � the
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 15:06:07 -0700, Fair Play<us...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita �
>>> the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
>>> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
>>> gone.
>>
>> Chagas Disease (American Trypanosomiasis), endemic to South and Central
>> America, is spread by infected triatomine bugs, known as the "kissing
>> bugs," that bite people. It was unknown in the United States until
>> fairly recently. It is now estimated that between 100,000 and 500,000
>> people in the US have Chagas Disease. Who is infected? Mostly illegal
>> aliens.
>>
>> Since Chagas Disease is basically unknown outside of the illegal alien
>> community most doctors won't recognize it and the blood supply just
>> started being screened for it. Most cases of Chagas Disease that occur
>> in patients other than illegal aliens are thought to be contracted from
>> tainted blood � blood sold by illegal aliens with Chagas Disease before
>>> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
>>> gone.
>>
>> Chagas Disease (American Trypanosomiasis), endemic to South and Central
>> America, is spread by infected triatomine bugs, known as the "kissing
>> bugs," that bite people. It was unknown in the United States until
>> fairly recently. It is now estimated that between 100,000 and 500,000
>> people in the US have Chagas Disease. Who is infected? Mostly illegal
>> aliens.
>>
>> Since Chagas Disease is basically unknown outside of the illegal alien
>> community most doctors won't recognize it and the blood supply just
>> started being screened for it. Most cases of Chagas Disease that occur
>> in patients other than illegal aliens are thought to be contracted from
>> the blood supply started being tested for it as of August of 2006.
>>
>> HIV The number of illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants with
>> HIV or AIDS is unknown, mostly because researchers rarely ask about
>> immigration status. However, it is known that the rate of HIV infection
>> among Latino women in California is about twice the rate of white women.
>> At one free California health clinic, all of the women have HIV or AIDS.
>> Most are Mexican or Central American "immigrants."
>>
>> Then there is Schistosomiasis, Guinea Worm Infection, Whooping cough,
>> Cysticercosis, Morgellon's, and a host of others.
>>
>> All these diseases and pathogens, and a plethora of others that are not
>> endemic to the US, are being brought in by unscreened illegal aliens who
>> then spread them to an unsuspecting population. These diseases will give
>> you something to think about the next time you are eating at a
>> restaurant with the grunt work being done by illegal aliens who didn't
>> have medical screening before preparing and handling your food.
>>
>> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/guinea-worm-infection-in-humans.html
>>
>> Thats a fun one. Like watching Alien in small scale....
>
>
> Sounds like the sooner they rehire the fired public health workers and
>>
>> HIV The number of illegal Mexican and Central American immigrants with
>> HIV or AIDS is unknown, mostly because researchers rarely ask about
>> immigration status. However, it is known that the rate of HIV infection
>> among Latino women in California is about twice the rate of white women.
>> At one free California health clinic, all of the women have HIV or AIDS.
>> Most are Mexican or Central American "immigrants."
>>
>> Then there is Schistosomiasis, Guinea Worm Infection, Whooping cough,
>> Cysticercosis, Morgellon's, and a host of others.
>>
>> All these diseases and pathogens, and a plethora of others that are not
>> endemic to the US, are being brought in by unscreened illegal aliens who
>> then spread them to an unsuspecting population. These diseases will give
>> you something to think about the next time you are eating at a
>> restaurant with the grunt work being done by illegal aliens who didn't
>> have medical screening before preparing and handling your food.
>>
>> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/guinea-worm-infection-in-humans.html
>>
>> Thats a fun one. Like watching Alien in small scale....
>
>
> reinstate the programs they administer the better doesn't it?
Sounds as if it would be a far better idea to hire and enable more ICE
personnel, especially after the union spoke out this week:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/07/border_patrol_agents_incensed_at_obama_dream_policy.html
This is pretty incredible. The union representing border patrol agents
is castigating the Obama administration over the exploitation of the
president's new DREAM policy by some illegal immigrants.
Fox News:
----------------
Union heads representing thousands of America's immigration agents
slammed the Obama administration Thursday over a policy they claim is
forcing officials to ignore the law and allowing illegal immigrants to
exploit the system.
In a startling allegation, the president of the union representing
Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers claimed illegal immigrants
are "taking advantage" of a new directive allowing some undocumented
residents who came to the U.S. as children to stay in the country. Union
boss Chris Crane said the policy ends up allowing illegal immigrants to
avoid detention without any proof -- particularly so-called "dreamers,"
or those illegal immigrants who would benefit under the "DREAM Act"
proposal, which Congress has not passed but the administration has
partially implemented.
"Prosecutorial discretion for dreamers is solely based on the
individual's claims. Our orders are if an alien says they went to high
school, then let them go," he said at a press conference with GOP
senators. "Officers have been told that there is no burden for the alien
to prove anything. ... At this point we don't even know why DHS has
criteria at all, as there is no requirement or burden to prove anything
on the part of the alien.
"We believe that significant numbers of people who are not dreamers are
taking advantage of this practice to avoid arrest," he said.
Crane cited one case in which, he said, an immigrant facing criminal
charges was let go under the policy. Further, he complained that
officers are "under threat of losing their jobs" if they defy the policy.
----------------------
Lose their jobs for doing their jobs? Amazing. If anything shows that
this policy is politically driven, its how the administration is
implementing it. It's clear that the Obama administration is pandering
to the radical open borders crowd with this policy and to put those
brave men and women who place their lives on the line every time they go
to work in such an untenable position is simply unconscionable.
>
> Thank goodness the Affordable Health Care Act is kicking in soon so
> infected people can get treatment.
Yup, on my dime.
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 10:02:23 AM7/28/12
to
On 7/27/2012 11:48 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:38:40 -0400, Sancho Panza
> It's a brute fact not an assertion.
> He is being advised by epidemiologists and is rather more credible
> than an anonymous racist agitator on Usenet.
>
> "Officials at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
> which sent three epidemiologist investigators to Washington last week,
> said the number of pertussis cases had been rising gradually
> nationwide for several decades, with periodic regional outbreaks"
> consider that "weird" casts doubt on your claims to have been involved
> in these projects.
>
> "If the signs are there, he said — especially a persistent, deep cough
> and indication of contact with a confirmed victim — doctors should
> simply treat patients with antibiotics. The pertussis test can cost up
> to $400 and delay treatment by days. About 14.6 percent of Skagit
> County residents have no health insurance, according to a state study
> conducted last year, up from 11.6 percent in 2008."
>
> “There has been half a million dollars spent on testing in this
> county,” Dr. Leibrand said late last week. “Do you know how much
> vaccination you can buy for half a million dollars?” And testing, he
> added, benefits only the epidemiologists, not the patients. “It’s an
> outrageous way to spend your health care dollar.”
> embarrassing yourself further.
> infectious and potentially lethal diseases in children?
>
> I guess that shows starkly how much value your input is worth.
> Better to die of entirely preventable diseases to funnel even more
> cash to Mitt and his gang of crooked bankers.
>
>
Plainly and simply, in a progressive place like Seattle a lot of people
are either ignorant of the basic health regulations or are colluding in
extensive deception. In either case, media and physicians demonstrate
once again that they are far from totally reliable:
"What documents do I need to provide to enroll my student?Return to Top
All SPS students are required to submit an admission form which includes
basic information such as name, date of birth, address, emergency
contacts, etc.
A Certificate of Immunization Status (CIS) is also required for all
students.
The parent or legal guardian’s photo I.D., as well as two additional
address verification documents must be provided for proof of residency.
(Address verification must contain the parent/guardian name and be dated
within the past eight weeks. Examples include current telephone, utility
or cable bills; mortgage statement; health or car insurance documents;
paycheck stubs; official mail from public agencies, such as the court
system or DSHS. Residential leases are accepted only if they are dated
within the past eight weeks and are signed by both the landlord and the
tenant.) Follow-up address verification will be required in the case of
a new lease and no other address verification documentation.
Students entering Pre-K, Kindergarten, and 1st grade must provide a
birth certificate or similar document for proof of age.
--http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=1c4ea03cecef530d7ee97922f12cf80c&pageid=192382&sessionid=&sessionid=1c4ea03cecef530d7ee97922f12cf80c
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:38:40 -0400, Sancho Panza
> than an anonymous racist agitator on Usenet.
>
> "Officials at the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
> which sent three epidemiologist investigators to Washington last week,
> said the number of pertussis cases had been rising gradually
> nationwide for several decades, with periodic regional outbreaks"
>
>> In this instance, he
>> makes no bones about his quest to raise his budget. The move to stop
>> testing is nothing short of really weird.
>
> That you are ignorant enough of the real situation in the field to
>> In this instance, he
>> makes no bones about his quest to raise his budget. The move to stop
>> testing is nothing short of really weird.
>
> consider that "weird" casts doubt on your claims to have been involved
> in these projects.
>
> "If the signs are there, he said — especially a persistent, deep cough
> and indication of contact with a confirmed victim — doctors should
> simply treat patients with antibiotics. The pertussis test can cost up
> to $400 and delay treatment by days. About 14.6 percent of Skagit
> County residents have no health insurance, according to a state study
> conducted last year, up from 11.6 percent in 2008."
>
> “There has been half a million dollars spent on testing in this
> county,” Dr. Leibrand said late last week. “Do you know how much
> vaccination you can buy for half a million dollars?” And testing, he
> added, benefits only the epidemiologists, not the patients. “It’s an
> outrageous way to spend your health care dollar.”
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
>>>>> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
>>>>> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>>>>>
>>>>> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
>>>>
>>>> Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
>>>> don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
>>>> stated political ax grinding.
>>>
>>> The point is funding for combating lethal threats to public health
>>> have been axed in favor of millionaire's tax cuts and corporate
>>> welfare.
>>
>> Got a cite for that pure by entirely empty talking point?
>
> You have already had it.
>
>
>
>
>>>>> If the GOP ever regained full access to the levers of power who knows
>>>>> what preventable diseases would be re-introduced to satisfy the
>>>>> unbridled and insatiable greed and avarice of their paymasters?
>>>>>
>>>>> ..smallpox,bubonic plague?
>>>>
>>>> Both of which have been quite active in the last decade or two. But
>>>> don't let real facts interfere with your unsurprisingly and clearly
>>>> stated political ax grinding.
>>>
>>> The point is funding for combating lethal threats to public health
>>> have been axed in favor of millionaire's tax cuts and corporate
>>> welfare.
>>
>> Got a cite for that pure by entirely empty talking point?
>
>
> "The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession,
> which has left state and local health departments on the front lines
> of defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts.
>
> Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the
> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita —
> the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
> gone."
>
>
> Perhaps you should simply give it up gracefully rather than
> "The response to the epidemic has been hampered by the recession,
> which has left state and local health departments on the front lines
> of defense weakened by years of sustained budget cuts.
>
> Here in Skagit County, about an hour’s drive north of Seattle — the
> hardest-hit corner of the state, based on pertussis cases per capita —
> the local Public Health Department has half the staff it did in 2008.
> Preventive care programs, intended to keep people healthy, are mostly
> gone."
>
>
> embarrassing yourself further.
>
>>
>>> Unsurprisingly the fact that Third World countries are getting better
>>> health care outcomes than the US doesn't even give you pause for
>>> thought.
>>
>> If you are so bothered by all the evil ills in the U.S.,
>
> You are not bothered by the return entirely preventable epidemics of
>>
>>> Unsurprisingly the fact that Third World countries are getting better
>>> health care outcomes than the US doesn't even give you pause for
>>> thought.
>>
>> If you are so bothered by all the evil ills in the U.S.,
>
> infectious and potentially lethal diseases in children?
>
> I guess that shows starkly how much value your input is worth.
>
>> it might be a good idea to pick one of those underdeveloped countries (preferably one
>> that conforms to your politics) and visit it, with an eye toward a
>> longer stay.
>
> God forbid we could ever learn anything from other countries eh?
>> it might be a good idea to pick one of those underdeveloped countries (preferably one
>> that conforms to your politics) and visit it, with an eye toward a
>> longer stay.
>
> Better to die of entirely preventable diseases to funnel even more
> cash to Mitt and his gang of crooked bankers.
>
>
Plainly and simply, in a progressive place like Seattle a lot of people
are either ignorant of the basic health regulations or are colluding in
extensive deception. In either case, media and physicians demonstrate
once again that they are far from totally reliable:
"What documents do I need to provide to enroll my student?Return to Top
All SPS students are required to submit an admission form which includes
basic information such as name, date of birth, address, emergency
contacts, etc.
A Certificate of Immunization Status (CIS) is also required for all
students.
The parent or legal guardian’s photo I.D., as well as two additional
address verification documents must be provided for proof of residency.
(Address verification must contain the parent/guardian name and be dated
within the past eight weeks. Examples include current telephone, utility
or cable bills; mortgage statement; health or car insurance documents;
paycheck stubs; official mail from public agencies, such as the court
system or DSHS. Residential leases are accepted only if they are dated
within the past eight weeks and are signed by both the landlord and the
tenant.) Follow-up address verification will be required in the case of
a new lease and no other address verification documentation.
Students entering Pre-K, Kindergarten, and 1st grade must provide a
birth certificate or similar document for proof of age.
--http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=1c4ea03cecef530d7ee97922f12cf80c&pageid=192382&sessionid=&sessionid=1c4ea03cecef530d7ee97922f12cf80c
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 10:47:23 AM7/28/12
to
On 7/27/2012 11:02 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:29:12 -0400, Sancho Panza
>
> That there is an epidemic in Wa but not in Ca in spite of 10x more
> undocumented guest workers and their families living there, is what we
> are discussing.
>
> If you are now belatedly trying to claim there is also an epidemic in
> California the onus is on you to prove it.Nobody else has heard of
> any such Californian epidemic.
Nope. You and the OP's are the posters pointing to Washington to push
your agenda. When it was pointed out that other factors were most likely
also in play, the name calling and ad hominems began, accompanied by
absolutely no pertinent attestable facts. Trying to rewrite just this
thread is yet another example of mendacious distortion.
>>
>>>
>>>> In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals the Washington climate. Maybe you have
>>>> never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
>>>> precipitation figures.
>>>
>>> She is saying no such thing.
>>>
>>> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
>>> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>>>
>>> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
>>> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
>>> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
>>> reform this system.
>>>
>>> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
>>> funded immunization programs including undocumented
>>> guest workers and their families.
>>
>> As a matter of fact, I have worked on public immunization programs, some
>> very successful. Have you?
>
> That someone with your unbalanced views might be allowed anywhere near
> Hispanic children is horrific and chilling.
Nowhere was there exclusive reference to "Hispanic children." There are
other immigrant groups, ya know. But this is just another example of
nothing more than prejudiced tunnel vision. Time to spew another epithet.
>
> I sincerely hope it's simply a brag on your part.
Not at all. But we can all see the pathetic evasion of another direct
question. No surprise there!
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012 22:29:12 -0400, Sancho Panza
> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 7/27/2012 7:25 AM, Fair Play wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
>>> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
>>>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>>>> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
>>>>> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
>>>>> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
>>>>> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
>>>>> the epidemic.
>>>>
>>>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>>>> countries with socialized medicine.
>>>
>>> She is saying nothing of the kind.
>>>
>>> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
>>> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
>>> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>>>
>>> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
>>
>> Where is your cite to support that claim the different rates of whooping
>> cough between California and Washington?
>
> Duh!
>
>> On 7/27/2012 7:25 AM, Fair Play wrote:
>>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
>>> <otter...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
>>>>> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
>>>>> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
>>>>> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
>>>>> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
>>>>> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
>>>>> the epidemic.
>>>>
>>>> That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
>>>> countries with socialized medicine.
>>>
>>> She is saying nothing of the kind.
>>>
>>> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
>>> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
>>> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>>>
>>> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
>>
>> Where is your cite to support that claim the different rates of whooping
>> cough between California and Washington?
>
>
> That there is an epidemic in Wa but not in Ca in spite of 10x more
> undocumented guest workers and their families living there, is what we
> are discussing.
>
> If you are now belatedly trying to claim there is also an epidemic in
> California the onus is on you to prove it.Nobody else has heard of
> any such Californian epidemic.
Nope. You and the OP's are the posters pointing to Washington to push
your agenda. When it was pointed out that other factors were most likely
also in play, the name calling and ad hominems began, accompanied by
absolutely no pertinent attestable facts. Trying to rewrite just this
thread is yet another example of mendacious distortion.
>>
>>>
>>>> In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals the Washington climate. Maybe you have
>>>> never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
>>>> precipitation figures.
>>>
>>> She is saying no such thing.
>>>
>>> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
>>> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>>>
>>> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
>>> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
>>> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
>>> reform this system.
>>>
>>> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
>>> funded immunization programs including undocumented
>>> guest workers and their families.
>>
>> As a matter of fact, I have worked on public immunization programs, some
>> very successful. Have you?
>
> Hispanic children is horrific and chilling.
Nowhere was there exclusive reference to "Hispanic children." There are
other immigrant groups, ya know. But this is just another example of
nothing more than prejudiced tunnel vision. Time to spew another epithet.
>
> I sincerely hope it's simply a brag on your part.
Not at all. But we can all see the pathetic evasion of another direct
question. No surprise there!
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Not Sure
Jul 28, 2012, 7:02:53 PM7/28/12
to
On Jul 27, 4:25 am, Fair Play <u...@example.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
>
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 21:01:36 -0400, Sancho Panza
>
> <otterpo...@xhotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>
> >> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
> >> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
> >> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
> >> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
> >> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
> >> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
> >> the epidemic.
>
> >That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
> >countries with socialized medicine.
>
> She is saying nothing of the kind.
How would you know what "she" is saying, dipshit? Have your head under
> >On 7/26/2012 7:34 PM, Barb May wrote:
>
> >> It doesn't matter what numbers you use, California has at least 15 times
> >> more illegal aliens than Washington, but Washington has more cases of
> >> whooping cough. You have no REASONABLE basis for claiming that the
> >> whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigration. Meanwhile, the recent
> >> trend in refusing to vaccinate children based on the fear that
> >> inoculations are dangerous can be reasonably cited as a direct cause of
> >> the epidemic.
>
> >That is the same baloney as comparing US life expectancy rates to
> >countries with socialized medicine.
>
> She is saying nothing of the kind.
"her" skirt? :)
>
> If your thesis that there is a causal link between the presence of
> undocumented Hispanics were true there would be a higher incidence of
> whooping cough in CA than WA.
>
> The reverse is true and your thesis must be rejected.
>
> >In this case, you are trying to say the California climate equals the Washington climate. Maybe you have
> >never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
> >precipitation figures.
>
> She is saying no such thing.
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >>http://children.webmd.com/vaccines/news/20100505/more-parents-refuse-...
> >never been in either, but they are worlds apart. Just look at
> >precipitation figures.
>
> She is saying no such thing.
>
> While your presentation of the rival explanation of the outbreak being
> due to climate is interesting it has nothing to do with Hispanics.
>
> It's a Public Health policy that allows anybody to roam about with
> treatable infectious disease infecting others , no matter what their
> racial origin, that is the issue here and what steps must be taken to
> reform this system.
>
> I strongly suspect you would be one of the first to object to publicly
> funded immunization programs including undocumented
> guest workers and their families.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> May 5, 2010 -- In 2008, 39% of parents refused or delayed giving at
> >> least one routine vaccine to their children, up from 22% just five years
> >> earlier, the CDC reports...Many of the parents who delayed or refused
> >> vaccinations worried about whether the vaccines were safe or effective:
> >> 27% said too many shots were recommended.
> >> 26% questioned whether vaccines really worked.
> >> 25% cited worries that vaccines might cause autism.
> >> 24% worried about side effects.
>
> >> The above figures are four years old, but all indications are that the
> >> number of parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children has
> >> continued to increase.
>
> >That does not do anything to bolster your argument. It does not have the
> >> least one routine vaccine to their children, up from 22% just five years
> >> earlier, the CDC reports...Many of the parents who delayed or refused
> >> vaccinations worried about whether the vaccines were safe or effective:
> >> 27% said too many shots were recommended.
> >> 26% questioned whether vaccines really worked.
> >> 25% cited worries that vaccines might cause autism.
> >> 24% worried about side effects.
>
> >> The above figures are four years old, but all indications are that the
> >> number of parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children has
> >> continued to increase.
>
> >specific figures for Washington or California. It says "delayed or
> >refused" without breaking down the answers the survey obviously had.
> >This is crap science twisted and contorted to throw out some figures
> >that fit a narrow agenda.
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 8:22:04 PM7/28/12
to
On 7/28/2012 4:16 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 10:47:23 -0400, Sancho Panza
> Present-day countries of origin
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States
>
> According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries
> of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows
> (latest of 2009):[7]
>
>
> Country of origin Raw number Percent of total Percent
> change 2000 to 2009
> Mexico 6,650,000 62% +42%
> El Salvador 530,000 5% +25%
> Guatemala 480,000 4% +65%
> Honduras 320,000 3% +95%
> Philippines 270,000 2% +33%
> India 200,000 2% +64%
> Korea 200,000 2% +14%
> Ecuador 170,000 2% +55%
> Brazil 150,000 1% +49%
> China 120,000 1% -37%
> Other 1,650,000 15% -17%
And Seattle is supposed to reflect that how?
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 10:47:23 -0400, Sancho Panza
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States
>
> According to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the countries
> of origin for the largest numbers of illegal immigrants are as follows
> (latest of 2009):[7]
>
>
> Country of origin Raw number Percent of total Percent
> change 2000 to 2009
> Mexico 6,650,000 62% +42%
> El Salvador 530,000 5% +25%
> Guatemala 480,000 4% +65%
> Honduras 320,000 3% +95%
> Philippines 270,000 2% +33%
> India 200,000 2% +64%
> Korea 200,000 2% +14%
> Ecuador 170,000 2% +55%
> Brazil 150,000 1% +49%
> China 120,000 1% -37%
> Other 1,650,000 15% -17%
And Seattle is supposed to reflect that how?
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 9:31:57 PM7/28/12
to
On 7/28/2012 8:57 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 20:22:04 -0400, Sancho Panza
> Undocumented guest workers and their families are overwhelmingly
> Hispanic.
>
> If you have some compelling reason to think Seattle is different I
> invite you to produce it.
"The racial makeup of the city in 2004 is 67.1% White, 16.6% Asian, 2.0%
Black, 1.0% Native American, 0.9% Pacific Islander, 2.3% from other
races, and 3.4% from two or more races. 6.3% of the population is
Hispanic or Latino of any race."--wikipedia
>
> You are supposed to be demonstrating that the experts are wrong,
> and the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigrants rather than
> the collapse of vaccine delivery and preventative public heath
> systems.
On the contrary. That burden falls to the advocates of the original
claim. My function was to point out that the cites and studies offered
were at the least amateur and not probitive and at the worst duplicitous
and agenda driven. None of the advocates of the original assertion have
offered any material with a semblance of relevance, authority or veracity.
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 20:22:04 -0400, Sancho Panza
> Hispanic.
>
> If you have some compelling reason to think Seattle is different I
> invite you to produce it.
"The racial makeup of the city in 2004 is 67.1% White, 16.6% Asian, 2.0%
Black, 1.0% Native American, 0.9% Pacific Islander, 2.3% from other
races, and 3.4% from two or more races. 6.3% of the population is
Hispanic or Latino of any race."--wikipedia
>
> You are supposed to be demonstrating that the experts are wrong,
> and the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigrants rather than
> the collapse of vaccine delivery and preventative public heath
> systems.
On the contrary. That burden falls to the advocates of the original
claim. My function was to point out that the cites and studies offered
were at the least amateur and not probitive and at the worst duplicitous
and agenda driven. None of the advocates of the original assertion have
offered any material with a semblance of relevance, authority or veracity.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Sancho Panza
Jul 28, 2012, 10:57:02 PM7/28/12
to
On 7/28/2012 10:05 PM, Fair Play wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:31:57 -0400, Sancho Panza
> eight year old census data that undocumented guest workers and their
> families do not contribute to is hardly compelling.
>
> Whooping cough epidemic worst in 50 years due to Obama immigration
> policies.
This is the original claim to which I refer:
effective as the old one." It was then compounded with a lot of
half-baked propaganda about Obamacare.
>
>> My function was to point out that the cites and studies offered
>> were at the least amateur and not probitive and at the worst duplicitous
>> and agenda driven. None of the advocates of the original assertion have
>> offered any material with a semblance of relevance, authority or veracity.
>
> I agree totally.
> Not a shred of evidence has been evidence has been produced to
> support it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:31:57 -0400, Sancho Panza
> families do not contribute to is hardly compelling.
>
>>>
>>> You are supposed to be demonstrating that the experts are wrong,
>>> and the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigrants rather than
>>> the collapse of vaccine delivery and preventative public heath
>>> systems.
>>
>> On the contrary. That burden falls to the advocates of the original
>> claim.
>
> here is the original assertion , in case you have forgotten.
>>>
>>> You are supposed to be demonstrating that the experts are wrong,
>>> and the whooping cough epidemic is caused by immigrants rather than
>>> the collapse of vaccine delivery and preventative public heath
>>> systems.
>>
>> On the contrary. That burden falls to the advocates of the original
>> claim.
>
>
> Whooping cough epidemic worst in 50 years due to Obama immigration
> policies.
This is the original claim to which I refer:
"This outbreak has been caused by too many AMERICANS refusing to immunize
their children, along with a new version of the vaccine that is not as
effective as the old one." It was then compounded with a lot of
half-baked propaganda about Obamacare.
>
>> My function was to point out that the cites and studies offered
>> were at the least amateur and not probitive and at the worst duplicitous
>> and agenda driven. None of the advocates of the original assertion have
>> offered any material with a semblance of relevance, authority or veracity.
>
> Not a shred of evidence has been evidence has been produced to
> support it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
Message has been deleted
Gunner Asch
Jul 29, 2012, 7:35:21 AM7/29/12
to
On Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:31:57 -0400, Sancho Panza
Many/most reporting agencies mix latino with caucasian
California does in many of its reports.
Gunner
California does in many of its reports.
Gunner
maryjer...@gmail.com
Sep 18, 2012, 2:30:59 PM9/18/12
to
I think that if a lot of the people are believing that illegals who don't have vaccinations against diseases that we have had should not be given free health care. They either should become citizens or sent back to whatever country they come from. My doctor comes from Pakistan and he was telling me all the health regulations required to get into this country same as other races except for the ones who refuse to speak our language.
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