Daylight Saving
jg
jg
> jg wrote:
>> Can we take that as a NO, or is there still someone who doesn't get
>> it?
>
> of years and they'll be back on their soap boxes again.
>
What's the bet it will be straight on with DS's travelling companion -
extended shopping hours, with its real aim of sending small shops broke?
spodosaurus
It's already on the cards - nationals won't support it so Barnett is
trying to get a few Labor MPs onside to pass it - Colin wants 9pm
without changes to Sunday trading, the Labor MPs want 7pm on weeknights.
--
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Paulco
You walk in to any IGA 830 at night and they are packed - and people doing a
full shop, not just last minute stuff.
The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
owners who want to protect their monopoly.
"spodosaurus" <spodosaurus@_yahoo_.com> wrote in message
news:4a0f81a5$0$24378$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
to...@altavista.com
>We should have extended trading.
>You walk in to any IGA 830 at night and they are packed - and people doing a
>full shop, not just last minute stuff.
Most IGA's I know of close around 8pm at the latest, and many close at the same time as
the other shops in the shopping centres.
>The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
>owners who want to protect their monopoly.
Now that "IS" bullshit....
jg
> We should have extended trading.
> You walk in to any IGA 830 at night and they are packed - and people doing a
> full shop, not just last minute stuff.
> The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
> owners who want to protect their monopoly.
>
>
>
Coles & Woollies don't seem to be suffering too badly from this IGA
monopoly, but there will certainly be one if they are allowed free rein.
Ray Haddad
wrote:
>We should have extended trading.
>You walk in to any IGA 830 at night and they are packed - and people doing a
>full shop, not just last minute stuff.
>The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
>owners who want to protect their monopoly.
True. It always has amazed me that here on Oz you have banks that are
open only when the customers are working and stores that keep much the
same hours as the workers in the area they service. It's almost as if
they expect everyone working to have a wife at home who doesn't work
but shops and does banking business for the working guy.
The retailers and government have simply got to wake up to the real
world of two income earners who both work all day and have to beg off
work just to go to the bank or post office. Restricted shopping hours?
It's a hurtful means of regulation and we need to dump it. Now.
--
Ray
Stephen X. Carter
>On Mon, 18 May 2009 22:08:22 +0800, "Paulco" <pau...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Most IGA's I know of close around 8pm at the latest, and many close at the same time as
>the other shops in the shopping centres.
>
>>The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
>>owners who want to protect their monopoly.
>
>Now that "IS" bullshit....
It's pretty much on the mark.
During the last (trading hours) referendum, IGA stores were all festooned with posters against
the proposal. I find it hard to imagine anything more hypocritical than posters against sunday
trading on display in a store open on sundays!
Solid gold humbug.
--
steve.hat.stephencarter.not.com.but.net
Nothing is Beatle Proof!!
Mr Kite posters and more at http://www.zazzle.com/mr_kite*
Mr Kite posters and more at http://www.zazzle.co.uk/mr_kite*
jg
Yet more than half the population doesn't want it. I'm sure they have
given as much consideration as they have been given and been influenced
by advertising no more than yes voters.
A friend told me about the nightmare allowing big shops free reign has
become in the UK - "Tesco - The Supermarket that's eating Britain".
someone
trading hours and DLS..
"Paulco" <pau...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4a116bd6$0$24383$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
Ray Haddad
<dynasoar.REMOVE.THIS..@ozdebate.com> wrote:
>jg wrote:
>> Ray Haddad wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 May 2009 22:08:22 +0800, "Paulco" <pau...@nospam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We should have extended trading.
>>>> You walk in to any IGA 830 at night and they are packed - and
>>>> people doing a full shop, not just last minute stuff.
>>>> The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are
>>>> the IGA owners who want to protect their monopoly.
>
>>> True. It always has amazed me that here on Oz you have banks that are
>>> open only when the customers are working and stores that keep much
>>> the same hours as the workers in the area they service. It's almost
>>> as if they expect everyone working to have a wife at home who
>>> doesn't work but shops and does banking business for the working guy.
>
>>> The retailers and government have simply got to wake up to the real
>>> world of two income earners who both work all day and have to beg off
>>> work just to go to the bank or post office. Restricted shopping
>>> hours? It's a hurtful means of regulation and we need to dump it.
>>> Now. --
>
>> Yet more than half the population doesn't want it. I'm sure they have
>> given as much consideration as they have been given and been
>> influenced by advertising no more than yes voters.
>
>> A friend told me about the nightmare allowing big shops free reign has
>> become in the UK - "Tesco - The Supermarket that's eating Britain".
>
>I'm fairly neutral about whether extended hours for shopping is necessary,
>but why are you concentrating only on the supermarkets? Ray understands
>there's more than supermarkets involved, but you seem to be ignoring that
>Walk through your local shopping centre and you'll find many times more
>people in total shopping in the department stores and the specialty stores
>than in the supermarkets.
>
>I'd be interested to read your thoughts on whether these other shops should
>or should not have extended hours.
There is, of course, a much bigger picture for certain. IGA stores are
all right but they don't carry the range of products that other stores
carry. Bunnings has the right idea with stores open a minimum of 12
hours every day. No matter where you work, there's always going to be
a time when you can fit in a trip to Bunnings for something you need.
Banks are the worst offenders out there. What possesses them to
believe that a working man or woman can take time off to stand in an
interminable queue just to deposit a cheque? It's laughable. Not every
transaction can be done at an ATM, on the web or via a phone call. Try
presenting your 90 points worth of ID for example.
I don't believe that any laws should make it mandatory that if your
mall happens to embrace the extended trading that your shop has to
remain open. That should be up to your choice as a business owner and
your security if your doors must be closed because you are closed.
There are horror stories of megaplex giants gobbling up those who
don't want to stay open late but in the US, there are stores open 24
hours a day in major cities and the mom and pop stores still survive.
They all have the option to become a megaplex giant though.
I say remove the regulations and let the store owners decide. The
ultimate decision will be in the hands of the shoppers who will either
prove or disprove the need for extended trading hours.
--
Ray
Bernd Felsche
Trading hours should be IDEALLY be "relaxed".
Unfortunately, that means that shops will have to provide service
for the same number of customers, selling the same amount of goods,
over a longer period. Which means increased staff levels. Most
employees don't seem to want to work without pay, so the longer
opening mean higher costs and prices to the customers.
Longer shopping hours don't automatically mean more stuff is bought.
In fact; shoppers have time to buy more carefully; so the unintended
consequence may be a slight reduction in turnover.
A European-style midday break may be a better option for many shops.
e.g. open from 7 a.m. until 1 p.m. and then close for an hour (or
two) and then open from 3 p.m. to 9 p.m. The hours are not the sort
of thing I'd want to see regulated ... I can personally attest to
customer-disappointment when getting to a shop in the middle of the
day only to find it closed.
Perhaps a limit to trading hours on weekdays and weekends/holidays
would provide enough flexibility. Shops can then use those as they
wish.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | When we remember that we are all mad,
X against HTML mail | the mysteries disappear and life stands
/ \ and postings | explained. -- Mark Twain
Neil Gerace
> Coles & Woollies don't seem to be suffering too badly from this IGA
> monopoly, but there will certainly be one if they are allowed free rein.
If they had smaller shops with better service, they too could be open all hours.
to...@altavista.com
>Snip SNip
>There is, of course, a much bigger picture for certain. IGA stores are
>all right but they don't carry the range of products that other stores
>carry. Bunnings has the right idea with stores open a minimum of 12
>hours every day. No matter where you work, there's always going to be
>a time when you can fit in a trip to Bunnings for something you need.
And just look whats hapened to all the , as you put it, "mom and pop" hardware stores that
used to be in every suburb.
Apart from the odd few, there is now NO choice in selection or price and convenience.
You just have to go to Bunnings... even if it is at 6pm on a sunday night, because you
just "must" have the piece of useless stuff, you'll probably not end up using after all.
>
>Banks are the worst offenders out there. What possesses them to
>believe that a working man or woman can take time off to stand in an
>interminable queue just to deposit a cheque? It's laughable. Not every
>transaction can be done at an ATM, on the web or via a phone call. Try
>presenting your 90 points worth of ID for example.
In total agreeance here, but banks have always had this lack of open hours,and service.
I note also though that no one is really calling for them and all offices and government
workers to be open all the hours in a day also, just so the small tarders and their staff
can get their business done. (remember, they'll be the one's manning the counters when you
want to go shopping at all hours)
>
>I don't believe that any laws should make it mandatory that if your
>mall happens to embrace the extended trading that your shop has to
>remain open. That should be up to your choice as a business owner and
>your security if your doors must be closed because you are closed.
Oh they probably won't legislate it to be mandatory to open, but the landlord will most
certainly effectively do this by quoting lease clauses, and if that is not successful,
then they will just not renew the small traders lease when it's due for renwal.
If that causes to much undue bother, then they will just "rate" the small trader out of
existence with rent increases, and replace them with some other sucker who thinks he can
make a go of it with all the hours and extra associated costs.
If they levelled the playing field as far as the rental costs etc goes, the smaller trader
may have a chance.
It is not uncommon for small traders to pay say 3 ~ 4 times (if not more) the rental
price per square metre that the major retailers pay, and they are usually limited to a
maximum of 5 years lease terms, whereas the majors often have the security of 20 +++ year
lease terms
>
>There are horror stories of megaplex giants gobbling up those who
>don't want to stay open late
As there are here. Just take a look at shopping centre vacancies that occur when a whole
bunch of leases become due and you'll see many site hoarded up with a sign on front saying
"Exciting NEW retailer coming soon"
Finally the long existing tenant has been forced out through excessive demands, long
hours, costs or the landlord rating them out.
It is not uncommon for a larger department store ( say for arguements sake, Big W) to run
there store with possibly only 5 ~ 10 staff on the floor (surely you;ve looked around at
one of these to get some non existant help ?), whereas the small trader will usually need
to keep a full compliment of staff available and on duty at much greater costs
>but in the US, there are stores open 24
>hours a day in major cities and the mom and pop stores still survive.
>They all have the option to become a megaplex giant though.
That's if they can ever get their heads above water without the waves drowning them and
making them just so much more detritus on the shores.
>
>I say remove the regulations and let the store owners decide. The
>ultimate decision will be in the hands of the shoppers who will either
>prove or disprove the need for extended trading hours.
Wrong, the store owner does'nt get the chance to decide, that is done for him by the Major
tenants through the landlords.
As far as the shoppers proving or disproving the "need" for extended hours, this is a load
of bunkum !
All that happens is that they now spread their shopping pattern over a much longer period.
Anyway, thats enough rambling for now.
(Come on steve... time for you to chip in here... I've left it open for you )
to...@altavista.com
>>Snip Snip
>
>Trading hours should be IDEALLY be "relaxed".
Most small traders, probably could, and some would remain open for all hours now, but the
major traders, usually through the landlords keeps the centres closed because they are not
allowed to trade due to their size and power.
>
>Unfortunately, that means that shops will have to provide service
>for the same number of customers, selling the same amount of goods,
>over a longer period. Which means increased staff levels. Most
>employees don't seem to want to work without pay, so the longer
>opening mean higher costs and prices to the customers.
Aint that the truth !
>
>Longer shopping hours don't automatically mean more stuff is bought.
>In fact; shoppers have time to buy more carefully; so the unintended
>consequence may be a slight reduction in turnover.
Aw stop it, all this common snese is hurting me.
>
>A European-style midday break may be a better option for many shops.
>e.g. open from 7 a.m. until 1 p.m. and then close for an hour (or
>two) and then open from 3 p.m. to 9 p.m. The hours are not the sort
>of thing I'd want to see regulated ... I can personally attest to
>customer-disappointment when getting to a shop in the middle of the
>day only to find it closed.
As can I and others.
Was travelling around Europe a couple of years ago when we thought we would stop in the
reasonable sized town for some lunch, as it was around that time..... 12.30 ~ 1pm or such,
only to find all the stores, lunch stores included had their doors shit with signs that
said "closed for lunch break (or similar wording) -- back at 2pm"
to...@altavista.com
>On Mon, 18 May 2009 23:04:07 +0800, to...@altavista.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 18 May 2009 22:08:22 +0800, "Paulco" <pau...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Most IGA's I know of close around 8pm at the latest, and many close at the same time as
>>the other shops in the shopping centres.
>>
>>>The current system is bullshit and the only people that support are the IGA
>>>owners who want to protect their monopoly.
>>
>>Now that "IS" bullshit....
>
>It's pretty much on the mark.
>
>During the last (trading hours) referendum, IGA stores were all festooned with posters against
>the proposal. I find it hard to imagine anything more hypocritical than posters against sunday
>trading on display in a store open on sundays!
>
>Solid gold humbug.
Nice to see you're back Steve.
Stephen X. Carter
>On Tue, 19 May 2009 08:51:34 +0800, Ray Haddad <r...@perthmagic.com> wrote:
>>Snip SNip
>
>>There is, of course, a much bigger picture for certain. IGA stores are
>>all right but they don't carry the range of products that other stores
>>carry. Bunnings has the right idea with stores open a minimum of 12
>>hours every day. No matter where you work, there's always going to be
>>a time when you can fit in a trip to Bunnings for something you need.
>
>And just look whats hapened to all the , as you put it, "mom and pop" hardware stores that
>used to be in every suburb.
>
>Apart from the odd few, there is now NO choice in selection or price and convenience.
>
>You just have to go to Bunnings... even if it is at 6pm on a sunday night, because you
>just "must" have the piece of useless stuff, you'll probably not end up using after all.
That's just wierd. If someone's daft enough to have to go out for something to a store that you
decry, and that they will probably end up not using after all, then there's no logic in it! :-)
>>Banks are the worst offenders out there. What possesses them to
>>believe that a working man or woman can take time off to stand in an
>>interminable queue just to deposit a cheque? It's laughable. Not every
>>transaction can be done at an ATM, on the web or via a phone call. Try
>>presenting your 90 points worth of ID for example.
>
>In total agreeance here, but banks have always had this lack of open hours,and service.
Don't get me started on banks! There's insufficient bandwidth to carry the number of horror
stories I have!
Originally, when transactions were totally paper based - not that long ago actually - the
opening hours were understandable. That excuse no longer applies.
My pet hate in banks at the moment is the introduction of what I believe are called
Concierge(s). Obsequious individuals who accost you when you enter to ask you if they can help
direct you to the service you want to use. 99% of the time when I go into a bank I **know**
what I want to do, and am quit happy to join the structured/managed queue to the counter. (Yes,
by all means, direct me to a specialist if I don't know how to set about getting the service -
sic - that I want, but don't interecept me on the way in! Wait until I've decided not to join
the counter queue).
Stephen X. Carter
>
>Was travelling around Europe a couple of years ago when we thought we would stop in the
>reasonable sized town for some lunch, as it was around that time..... 12.30 ~ 1pm or such,
>only to find all the stores, lunch stores included had their doors shit with signs that
>said "closed for lunch break (or similar wording) -- back at 2pm"
Just as well. Would you anyway want to eat at a lunch store that had its door shit?
:-)
to...@altavista.com
>On Wed, 20 May 2009 09:46:15 +0800, to...@altavista.com wrote:
>
>>
>>Was travelling around Europe a couple of years ago when we thought we would stop in the
>>reasonable sized town for some lunch, as it was around that time..... 12.30 ~ 1pm or such,
>>only to find all the stores, lunch stores included had their doors shit with signs that
>>said "closed for lunch break (or similar wording) -- back at 2pm"
>
>Just as well. Would you anyway want to eat at a lunch store that had its door shit?
>
>:-)
OH !
Well spotted, how unlike me to miss a spelling error, when I usually pick up other posters
errors.
gromit
steve@[127.0.0.1] (Stephen X. Carter) posted:
[snip]
>My pet hate in banks at the moment is the introduction of what I believe are called
>Concierge(s). Obsequious individuals who accost you when you enter to ask you if they can help
>direct you to the service you want to use. 99% of the time when I go into a bank I **know**
>what I want to do, and am quit happy to join the structured/managed queue to the counter. (Yes,
>by all means, direct me to a specialist if I don't know how to set about getting the service -
>sic - that I want, but don't interecept me on the way in! Wait until I've decided not to join
>the counter queue).
And let's not forget Telstra shops who use this "function" as well. I
tend to use the phone now to deal with them - it's no different to
being put on hold only to be told "your call is important to us...."
--
Phil
To reply delete "NOTHANKS"
Ima Polar
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You are full of shit, er, shot, er, shat, er, shut, er, fuck it!!!!!!!