Dyson and Biotech and Mars and PhDs and Heretics (was Re: As...)
Paul D. Fernhout
safety (bioterrorism, accidental releases), cruelty (animal testing and
experimental generations), biopiracy (patenting old genes) and pollution
(crosspollination) until we actually can do the work mostly quarantined in
space (or in simulation or less cruel approaches).
It is scary stuff even when (maybe especially when :-) done by "experts":
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plum+lyme
That *one* example, if true, shows why advanced biotech research should
*only* be done in space IMHO.
With that said, consider esteemed scientist Freeman J. Dyson's writings, like:
"Warm-Blooded Plants and Freeze-Dried Fish"
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97nov/space.htm
"When emigration from Earth to a planet or a comet becomes cheap enough for
ordinary people to afford, people will emigrate. ... The most important part
of their baggage will be the seeds of plants and animals genetically
engineered to survive in an alien climate. On a world that has only a thin
atmosphere, like Mars, or no atmosphere at all, like Europa, the most useful
seeds will be the seeds of warm-blooded plants. After a hundred years of
development of genetic engineering, we will know how to write the DNA to
make plants grow greenhouses. Plants as large as trees could grow
greenhouses big enough for human beings to live in. If the human settlers
are wise, they will arrive to move into homes already prepared for them by
an ecology of warm-blooded plants and animals introduced by earlier,
unmanned missions. ..."
He also has many wonderful and insightful books, like _Infinite In All
Directions_.
From my own experiences in graduate school, I worry for people on this list
with space settlement interests as far as advanced schooling whether
interested it biotech (making what Dyson or Bryan suggests :-), nanotech,
or, like me, "clanking replicators".
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clanking+replicators
I was in a PhD program for a while in Operations Research and Statistics (my
stated purpose was to build self-replicating space habitats
and such, which was not taken seriously. :-) It was very stressful trying to
be serious about space settlement in the 1980s at grad school (even one that
employed Gerry O'Neill in another department :-). I'm sure my attitude was
part of the problem. And I'll acknowledge a lot of what CE&OR people know is
important -- more important than I appreciated at the time (especilly for
simulation).
Still, are there deeper roots why space studies (or any bold innovation) is
hard at the graduate level in most schools unless painted in very cautious
or mundane ways? See:
http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/radical-teacher.htm
"Why aren’t there more radical teachers? Is it just the difficulty of being
radical in a system built around compulsion, discipline, conformity, and
reproduction of the class structure? Or is part of the problem the way that
people become teachers? Indeed, why is it that so many educational radicals
were never formally trained as teachers? Jeff Schmidt provides an answer in
his book Disciplined Minds: professionals, including teachers, are selected
and molded to have politically and intellectually subordinate attitudes,
thereby making their creative energies available to the system. In short,
"professional education and employment push people to accept a role in which
they do not make a significant difference, a politically subordinate role."
(p. 2). Schmidt’s critique covers all professionals and is worth examining
before returning to the specific challenge facing radical teachers. ... How
to survive? Well, how can captive soldiers survive what is commonly called
"brainwashing"? The US Army has a manual on resisting indoctrination when a
prisoner of war. As Schmidt amusingly notes, this manual wasn’t written for
students, but "students in graduate or professional school should be able to
put such resistance techniques to good use." (p. 239). A person who
maintains an independent, nonconforming outlook in any institution,
including a prisoner-of-war camp, is seen as deviant and threatening. The
keys to resistance are knowing what you’re up against, preparing to take
action, working with others (organization!), resisting at all levels, and
dealing with collaborators by cutting them off from key information and
attempting to win them over. Schmidt gives a revealing account of his own
difficulties in graduate school and how he survived as a radical. ...
Schmidt gives a list of 33 suggestions for radical professionals working in
establishment institutions, such as helping on politically progressive
projects during working hours, exposing the organization’s flaws to
outsiders, and taking collective action to maintain the dignity of
individuals. These are all eminently practical suggestions. Schmidt does not
present a grand plan to transform professions or society. Rather, his
suggestions, like his analysis, are grounded in day-to-day realities. ..."
For me, Freeman Dyson's lighter take on things helped:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_Dyson
He's one of the few people I talked to who would talk about the evils of the
PhD schooling process:
http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/03/freeman-dyson-on-phd-global-warming.html
"Freeman Dyson has been and is an eminent physicist who has never received a
PhD even though his name appears in the main text of 1,410 scientific
articles. In fact, he considers the PhD system to be deeply flawed. ...
[Dyson thinks] Biotechnology will become as domesticated as computer games
and children and housewives will create their new animal and plant species
at home. Most people don't realize that this will happen much like John von
Neumann didn't appreciate computer games as a major source of the 21st
century entertainment ... At the celebration,
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=116010
Freeman Dyson also informed the new PhDs that their education will probably
turn out to be overspecialized and they may be declared redundant; indeed,
Dyson is just like the Fairy Blackstick from his fairy-tale. Much like in
the fairy-tale, such a redundancy may also be an opportunity because the
students can always join the heretics. Dyson himself is a proud heretic but,
unfortunately, an "old heretic" - one of those who don't "cut much ice". The
world needs young heretics, he says. And in November 2006 he will release a
book about scientists as rebels. You should buy it: ..."
And he gave me the advice in the 1980s (essentially) to find something more
useful to do with my life than spend years of it in a PhD program (and then
the publication race after etc.), which lead indirectly to my wife and I
developing a (free) garden simulator as something with both on Earth
benefits and *also* a step to learning to live in space:
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/gwi.htm
(This is not to imply any endorsement by him of me or my work. :-)
In general, I'd suggest that path to people here interested in space
settlement -- find something (free :-) to do (no matter how small) which you
care about which both has on Earth benefits and *also* is a step to learning
to live in space.
Gardening is about the level of biotech I'm comfortable with :-) till we can
do it in space. And I say that as someone who also was in a PhD program in
Ecology and Evolution for a time because I was not smart enough to listen to
Freeman Dyson's advice right away. :-)
As I expect most people aren't going to listen to me right away, either. :-)
Even if leaving grad school was profitable for certain Googlers: :-)
http://www.google.com/corporate/execs.html
And even given things are only worse for PhDs in general since the 1980s: :-)
"The Big Crunch" by David Goodstein
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html
But I can hope there are more graduate programs supportive of interests in
sustainability or space settlement on the East Coast that there was then.
Even PU now has, say, an office of sustainability:
http://www.princeton.edu/sustainability/
when twenty years ago the assistant Dean of the Chapel literally told me I
should go somewhere else if I wanted to find people who cared about
sustainability kind of stuff (I've long thought space settlement and
sustainability issues are linked.) So, community sentiment can change --
usually very slowly in the absence of some other sudden event.
Anyway, while I am all for education, apprenticing, mentoring, and so on, I
feel that very directly the institution of *schooling* in all its forms
stands in the way of humanity reaching the stars. :-)
Especially in the internet age: :-)
"Why Educational Technology Has Failed Schools"
http://patapata.sourceforge.net/WhyEducationalTechnologyHasFailedSchools.html
For background on how things in schools got this way, see:
"The Emergence of Compulsory Schooling ..."
http://www.social-ecology.org/article.php?story=20031028151034651
"Fichte’s point was that schools could and should be used to create a
compliant citizenry, one that would be used to following orders, comfortable
submitting their will to a larger authority, familiar with hierarchical
chains of command and instructed in the virtues of the State. ..."
Or:
"The Underground History of American Education"
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/prologue.htm
But as always, for balance:
http://t0.or.at/delanda/meshwork.htm
"Indeed, one must resist the temptation to make hierarchies into villains
and meshworks into heroes, not only because, as I said, they are constantly
turning into one another, but because in real life we find only mixtures and
hybrids, and the properties of these cannot be established through theory
alone but demand concrete experimentation. ... Hence, demonizing
centralization and glorifying decentralization as the solution to all our
problems would be wrong. An open and experimental attitude towards the
question of different hybrids and mixtures is what the complexity of reality
itself seems to call for."
--Paul Fernhout
Bryan Bishop
> Personally I am not a big fan of a heavy push into biotech for
> reasons of safety (bioterrorism, accidental releases), cruelty
> (animal testing and experimental generations), biopiracy (patenting
> old genes) and pollution (crosspollination) until we actually can do
> the work mostly quarantined in space (or in simulation or less cruel
> approaches).
1) Biosafety: just because we ignore it doesn't make disease go away.
2) Cruelty: living is the least possibly cruel thing, ever.
3) Biopiracy: Huh? Are you going to go hunt down bacteriophages?
4) Pollution: look, pollution occurs, we know it. Instead of
complaining, let's make more filtering technologies and perhaps even
the spacepods so that we can have relatively more pure environments,
eh? Be proactive. I see you mention this. :)
> It is scary stuff even when (maybe especially when :-) done by
> "experts": http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=plum+lyme
> That *one* example, if true, shows why advanced biotech research
> should *only* be done in space IMHO.
Best get a move on that cheap sugarshot.org option. ;)
> With that said, consider esteemed scientist Freeman J. Dyson's
> writings, like: "Warm-Blooded Plants and Freeze-Dried Fish"
> http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97nov/space.htm
> "When emigration from Earth to a planet or a comet becomes cheap
> enough for ordinary people to afford, people will emigrate. ... The
> most important part of their baggage will be the seeds of plants and
> animals genetically engineered to survive in an alien climate. On a
> world that has only a thin atmosphere, like Mars, or no atmosphere at
> all, like Europa, the most useful seeds will be the seeds of
> warm-blooded plants. After a hundred years of development of genetic
> engineering, we will know how to write the DNA to make plants grow
> greenhouses. Plants as large as trees could grow greenhouses big
> enough for human beings to live in. If the human settlers are wise,
> they will arrive to move into homes already prepared for them by an
> ecology of warm-blooded plants and animals introduced by earlier,
> unmanned missions. ..."
Yes, synthetic biology has been starting recently, and the next step
might very well be synthetic ecology, which can be tied back into
terraforming if we want to get polymathic.
> He also has many wonderful and insightful books, like _Infinite In
> All Directions_.
Dyson has lived for bloody ever. An awesome character, and who isn't
awesome with an address like 'Einstein Drive' and 'Institute for
Advanced Study' all in the same line? dy...@ias.edu
> From my own experiences in graduate school, I worry for people on
> this list with space settlement interests as far as advanced
> schooling whether interested it biotech (making what Dyson or Bryan
> suggests :-), nanotech, or, like me, "clanking replicators".
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=clanking+replicators
Btw, my interests are in both bio 'nano'tech and the clanking
replicators; it is part of this comprehensive strategy so that I don't
lose.
> I was in a PhD program for a while in Operations Research and
> Statistics (my stated purpose was to build self-replicating space
> habitats
> and such, which was not taken seriously. :-) It was very stressful
> trying to be serious about space settlement in the 1980s at grad
> school (even one that employed Gerry O'Neill in another department
> :-). I'm sure my attitude was part of the problem. And I'll
> acknowledge a lot of what CE&OR people know is important -- more
> important than I appreciated at the time (especilly for simulation).
O'Neill is now a big name. I wonder why such obviously far-reaching, but
locally implementable ideas, have been laughed at. Obviously Google is
taking kind to them, perhaps this will help clue a few people in.
> http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/03/freeman-dyson-on-phd-global-warming
>.html "Freeman Dyson has been and is an eminent physicist who has
> never received a PhD even though his name appears in the main text of
Wait, what? This is new.
> Anyway, while I am all for education, apprenticing, mentoring, and so
> on, I feel that very directly the institution of *schooling* in all
> its forms stands in the way of humanity reaching the stars. :-)
Hm, schools are also sometimes used to introduce you to the social
network, but with the internet this is much less necessary. However,
why is it that there haven't been any explicit, big *giant* groups of
people with incredible interest in highly specialized areas? Perhaps it
is because cultural diffusion of the concepts has already occured, and
we didn't think to attach a "click here to get involved" link?
> But as always, for balance:
> http://t0.or.at/delanda/meshwork.htm
> "Indeed, one must resist the temptation to make hierarchies into
> villains and meshworks into heroes, not only because, as I said, they
> are constantly turning into one another, but because in real life we
> find only mixtures and hybrids, and the properties of these cannot be
> established through theory alone but demand concrete experimentation.
> ... Hence, demonizing centralization and glorifying decentralization
> as the solution to all our problems would be wrong. An open and
> experimental attitude towards the question of different hybrids and
> mixtures is what the complexity of reality itself seems to call for."
It is not that hierarchies are evil, but that refactoring is *tough*.
Maybe I will elaborate later.
- Bryan
________________________________________
http://heybryan.org/
mike1937
but I don't think there is any intrinsic evil in educating a lot of
people at the same time; something like a free, optional, college
course would be fine in my opinion. Even if its an online collection
of tutorials paired with a forum to ask questions of the teacher, its
still in effect a school.
On Apr 17, 6:50 pm, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-fernhout.com>
wrote:
Bryan Bishop
> In the defense of schools, yes they need to be completely rethought,
> but I don't think there is any intrinsic evil in educating a lot of
> people at the same time; something like a free, optional, college
> course would be fine in my opinion. Even if its an online collection
> of tutorials paired with a forum to ask questions of the teacher, its
> still in effect a school.
http://ocw.mit.edu/
http://ocwconsortium.org/
http://ocwfinder.com/