Ok. It's April Fools. Who here doesn't care?

[Doram]

Quoted from the last FAQ page answer after following the "Virgle is
real." link:

"oh, all right. Fine. April Fool's. Ha, ha, ha. It isn't real. There.
Are you happy? Does it please you to drag us out of our lovely little
fantasy world, to crush all our hopes and dreams? Is that really what
you need to hear? Fine, you've heard it. Virgle isn't real.

Yet."

You know what? I personally believe that if Sir Richard Branson was
crazy/brilliant enough to really go out and start Virgin Galactic,
then he is certainly smart enough to join in with what was admittedly
an April Fools Day joke, just to feel out what the real public
sentiment on the subject is, so that he can see if a project like this
could find real support out there.

I know it's an April Fools Day joke, and I DON'T CARE! I want to talk
about it anyways, because I think it is a good idea, and I want to
tell that to the only rich person I know that has these interests.

Who's with me!!

We WANT Virgle!!!

[Lewis Nitzberg]

*crickets* heh

--
"Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?"
"That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat.
"I don't much care where--" said Alice.
"Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.

[steLz]

Yeah I want Virgle. It's a sexy idea. I love Stargate Atlantis and I
like Eve Online and the thought of these being reality (sort of) turns
me on.

[M. Thyer]

I certainly hope that someone with a big pile of money (such as
Branson or Google) is listening. The joke starts to look like it was
made in bad taste if they're not.

There are several Mars analog projects that have been underway for
some time, testing and trying to make colonization of the red planet a
possibility for humanity's future (http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/
research/technology-onepagers/moonmars.html). The technology exists
today, or so we're told, to get mankind to Mars and even to return him
to Earth (Buzz Aldrin, "Let's Go to Mars", Popular Mechanics, Dec
2005). There are collections of scientists and engineers eager to
overcome the challenges that remain and entire nations who would
gladly become Martian if given the opportunity. Millions of man-hours
annually are ready to be volunteered at the first inkling of a
project; dreamers are everywhere. All that remains is for an
investment of time, money, and planning to make this Mankind's
greatest journey a reality.

[mysteriowallace]

I think that this is the best idea ever, with or without Google and
Virgin. I also don't care if it's a joke. For a very brief moment I
thought they were serious and it was a glorious moment.

DanW

On Apr 1, 3:16 pm, Doram <DoramBaram...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Lewis Nitzberg]

yes, it would be, but so would a cure for cancer. And aids. Oh, and ending world hunger would be cool. And wars too, they ain't that great.... so how about we work on our own planet before we explore others? Think about it... humanity is already going down hill... do we really need TWO humanities going down hill?

Yeah, yeah, it's an april's fool joke, play along, but seriously, this is a good point I'm making (at least I think so..)

[steLz]

Maybe the cure for cancer and aids is on Mars.

On Apr 2, 12:01 pm, "Lewis Nitzberg" <lnitzb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, it would be, but so would a cure for cancer. And aids. Oh, and ending
> world hunger would be cool. And wars too, they ain't that great.... so how
> about we work on our own planet before we explore others? Think about it...
> humanity is already going down hill... do we really need TWO humanities
> going down hill?
>
> Yeah, yeah, it's an april's fool joke, play along, but seriously, this is a
> good point I'm making (at least I think so..)
>

> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:58 PM, mysteriowallace <mysteriowall...@gmail.com>

> "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[tacodomains]

It's a cool idea any way :)

On Apr 1, 7:01 pm, "Lewis Nitzberg" <lnitzb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, it would be, but so would a cure for cancer. And aids. Oh, and ending
> world hunger would be cool. And wars too, they ain't that great.... so how
> about we work on our own planet before we explore others? Think about it...
> humanity is already going down hill... do we really need TWO humanities
> going down hill?
>
> Yeah, yeah, it's an april's fool joke, play along, but seriously, this is a
> good point I'm making (at least I think so..)
>

> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:58 PM, mysteriowallace <mysteriowall...@gmail.com>

[Lewis Nitzberg]

o it's an AWESOME idea, don't get me wrong; I've been dreaming of getting off Earth since I was a wee lad heh
But eh... Mars is kinda far away... maybe a week in Hawaii will be just as good

[GirlfromNantucket]

I dont care either. It's a fun idea.

A lot like Asimov's Foundation series.

And it gave me something new to daydream about in work today :)

[Tobias Greenich]

I'm all for it, and I'm reasonably sure that someone is eying this
whole group and seriously analyzing the reactions. We either have
technologies or the roots of technologies to get something like this
done. Our scientists were planning trips to Bernard's Star in the
Sixties, and drew up schematics.

Curing cancer and AIDS would no doubt be a wonderful thing, increasing
the quality of life for many. Consider, however, that once eradicated,
there will be other things that crop up, things we didn't foresee.
SARS was a wonderful example. Nature always tries to thin the ranks
when we get too populous for our inhabited area.

World Hunger is something that can be remedied for a while, but as
populations increase it will become more and more of a problem. We
consume more and more, and eventually cannot be supported. We study
that in all kinds of animals. They adapt, and move elsewhere, or their
ranks get thinned to a point where the consumables can recoup and the
species can be supported once again.

Good luck ending war. The arguments for that are too numerous to
mention.

Think about it... humanity is heading down hill even faster than we
think. Do we really want all of our eggs in one basket?

[Lewis Nitzberg]

Hehe yaaa.... I think i spent 90% of my day at work corresponding with strangers on Vigile, 5% at a meeting, 2% at lunch, and the rest on this project I have due...

[Kei_Centillion]

I thought it was funny, especially the stuff here;

http://groups.google.com/group/virgle/browse_thread/thread/e234e61c85d21d1d

lol

Thought it was serious at first, seeing it on the google homepage.
Google has been doing crazy stuff lately lol

My favorite part:

There are four ultimate goals:

2) Gravity. Good for keeping residents as residents.

[Freako]

Agreed. If we wait for everything to get resolved on this planet,
we'll never get to "Plan B." I would rather my grandchildren have some
options.

And I bet I could finally dunk the B-Ball in 1/3 gravity!

[Lewis Nitzberg]

Good points, Tobias. it was just a thought I've had swirling around in my head ever since I've started thinking about human colonization of other planets.

[Lewis Nitzberg]

Alright, you've both convinced me that it IS a good idea :P

[GirlfromNantucket]

What would be even *more* fun is if the joke were on the people who
concluded it was an April Fool's Joke.

And it were actually real.

[Minalkra]

Sure. As soon as I saw the front page of Google, I knew it was an
April Fools joke. But seriously, I don't care either. It is an
excellent idea. Give people an ALTERNATIVE and things around this
planet just MIGHT start to get better. When there's an entire planet
out there not kowtowing to you, larger countries might just start
having to be, well, NICE before all their populations evaporate. And
don't get me started on ecological disasters. One small mountain-
sized chunk of space rock and we've hit the reset button for the
planet. It's about TIME someone realized Mars was a very profitable,
if long term, investment. Now, where's my Space Colonist Handbook?

On Apr 1, 7:20 pm, "Lewis Nitzberg" <lnitzb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alright, you've both convinced me that it IS a good idea :P
>

[Lewis Nitzberg]

Girlfrom, what if it's on a joke on people who think it's a joke on people who concluded that it was a joke?
Or better yet, what if it's completely, 100% real? Like, no jokes involved. Not on those who concluded it was a joke, not on those that think it's on a joke on those people, and no on the people who think it's a joke on those people who think it's a joke?

Yeah...

[Hicks]

Two problems:
1. The goal of working to colonize another world does not prevent us
from continuing to work on other problems
2. The "let's fix our problems here first" argument of "fixing our
problems on earth" first is made too often.
The idea is that we merely need to focus our collective will on
solving our issues, but it ignores the fact that there are few
examples of societies working together to solve Big Problems.
Many people today are disillusioned and don't believe we can solve
global problems like climate change, poverty, over-population, etc.

However, a project like colonizing another world would inspire people.
It would show that we really can do big things when working together.
It would create a generation of dreamers who believe anything is
possible and refuse to allow humanity to slide further downhill.

On Apr 1, 4:01 pm, "Lewis Nitzberg" <lnitzb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> yes, it would be, but so would a cure for cancer. And aids. Oh, and ending
> world hunger would be cool. And wars too, they ain't that great.... so how
> about we work on our own planet before we explore others? Think about it...
> humanity is already going down hill... do we really need TWO humanities
> going down hill?
>
> Yeah, yeah, it's an april's fool joke, play along, but seriously, this is a
> good point I'm making (at least I think so..)
>

> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:58 PM, mysteriowallace <mysteriowall...@gmail.com>

[Lewis Nitzberg]

's cool hicks, I changed my mind. But good points nonetheless :)

[Freako]

And another thing!

"Does it please you to drag us out of our lovely little
fantasy world, to crush all our hopes and dreams? Is that really what
you need to hear? Fine, you've heard it. Virgle isn't real. "

Exactly who is crushing who's dreams?

[DamHamburgler]

Wait, wait, wait,...this is a hoax?? It's all a big joke? This means
they're NOT looking for a world-renowned expert in Guitar Hero II??
DAMN!!


...now what's my purpose in life?...

[GirlfromNantucket]

Lewis, I'll meet you over on the weed thread ;)

[Jared Croft]

It would be cool if they did this...but it would take more capital
than they could likely raise.

[mike1937]

to further hicks' argument, throwing money at things like curing
cancer probably wont help, scientists are already doing everything
they can think of. We have plenty of resources to spend on something
like this without making many sacrifices, especially rich people like
Branson.

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[TheOt...@gmail.com]

I'm with you. We want this!

And I agree quite a lot with Dan W. For that (a little more than
"brief") moment when I believed this was actually happening, I was a
kind of DEEP DOWN happy I haven't been in years. I wasn't emotional
or crying or anything... there was just this very clear, very
resounding ... 'Shared YES' with humanity. It felt great, and I am
still kind of feeling the warm tingly residuals -- like I just came
back from a great vacation -- so for that, THANKS GOOGLE AND VIRGIN
(and Virgle)

That having been said, I'm moving forward as if it might be real.
Personally, I think its brilliant to launch the idea on a day in which
most ahem bozos would ASSUME that its an April Fool's Day joke, but
then to secretly mine the respondents for the best of the best and
begin preparing us in secret... then one day in 2014, (just like Jodi
Foster in Contact) we'll blow them all away by giving them no time to
prepare, and just announcing that morning that we're launching.

I'm so there.

So, we all "act as if" and plan for stuff and talk about it as if
we're going... if it does happen, we'll be well prepared, and if it
was a joke, what harm did it do?

Rob "MacGyver" Norton
Paperclip, Rubber Band and Gum Wrapper Engineer, Universe Class
Counselor, Empath, Party-Trick Class (working on it... HEY! I felt
that. STOP PSYCHICALLY POKING ME.)

[M. Thyer]

Spring break here, I was working out in the back yard on a gardening
project with my son. My wife ran out side after seeing the project
page saying "You need to read this right away." She was so right,
Virgle is a bad joke on those of us with courage enough to dream of
the possibility of man on Mars. I'm still hoping to participate in a
Mars analog project perhaps next year. I'm presently amazed by all
the people laughing at this kind of work. Really helps me understand
that humanity has a very small minded common denominator who will
happily consume spin-off technologies, but are realistically only
interested in toys within their own tiny worlds.

Lewis Nitzberg has a good point, why not focus on the problems we have
here on Earth? Because we know that one of the keys to keeping our
nation's prosperity is to remain the innovation-mill of the world.
How does mankind transform those nationalistic endeavours into
something more universal? Simply put it looks build a new matrixed
organization that reaches across the social and economic silos that
we've traditionally organized within. A BIG project, one with much of
mankind involved is one way to achieve such an evolutionary step;
horizontal and vertically integrated social organization intent on
growing mankind's galactic influence.

From the moment we bridge the casm of space between Home and Mars
we'll need collections of dedicated, hardworking, and capable people.
These will be the first people in the history of the species to leave
significant portions of their genetic legacy behind them and evolve
simply by force of will.

[1nfinitezer0]

Although I agree that the inspirational qualities of establishing a
footing on another planet has the potential to bring people together
the world over, I don't think Mars is really the place to start. If
we can't rally over real world threats to humanity like global warming
and unfair food distribution, how is fleeing to a distant planet going
to help?

We have no idea how to begin terraforming a planet with no
atmosphere. The probability of subsurface water may be high, but the
cost of utilizing such a remote resource compared to desalination is
foolhardy. So what does Mars give us? Another epic scene and radio
broadcast to pin in the hat of achievement of mankind? Hurrah! Go
us. Meanwhile the rockets launched continue to produce huge chunks of
greenhouse gasses and millions die from curable diseases.

I think we'd be better off trying to build sustainable orbital
ecosystems before going to another planet. How long ago was it that
we got to the moon? How much effort has been made to return? Do you
think commercialization will change that? Short of impending doom of
humanity, I don't see how we could cooperate enough to get Mars
colonized before we've been forced to deal with the problems on Earth.

And yeah, it's a joke, but it was a well planned joke, and if it's not
an ulterior motive to inspire us and to spark discussion of a positive
future... well, I don't know what else Google would be thinking. They
are the best candidates for 'good guys' we've had in a long time.

On Apr 1, 5:35 pm, Hicks <pskov...@gmail.com> wrote:

[TheOt...@gmail.com]

You know what I say?

SCREW EARTH

They'll just hate on us anyway.

I mean, we've TRIED. We talked all nice and stuff, we said "hey, you
know, this um.... global warming thing... well, you know... it just
MIGHT actually be sort of a viable theory and .... you know, if we
could just maybe SLOW DOWN a bit..." circa NINETEEN SEVENTY THREE.

Then we said "Hey, why can't we all just like... you know, try and
keep the end-game in mind and get along and educate everyone the same
and you know try to solve things like world hunger rather than
spending 80 bil fighting each other when we're all supposed to value
each other..." CIRCA every day since I can remember.

If we as an entire HUMANITY really think that one faction's beliefs
are that destructive -- GET RID OF THEM. Just do it, live with the
regret, the pain, maybe we'll learn from it -- who knows. Anybody
watch "Sunshine"? and I quoth:

"Are you really asking me to weigh the life of one person against that
of mankind for all eternity? Kill him." I mean, it ain't pretty...
and I certainly wouldn't want to actually DO it, but sheesh -- all
this bickering and spending money we could really USE for other stuff
when what was really wanted was to just exterminate an entire people.
I'm not saying it was right, but hell, huMAN UP, grab yer crap, say
what you're going to do, and do it. If the rest of the world
disagreed with you, they'd just smack you down HARD like they did with
Hitler. If they thought you were right, they'd probably let you get
away with it or maybe even help -- then we could all live with the
remorse and regret for ever and ever, but hey -- we'd be rid of the
"terrorists!" whoopee! FINALLY, whirled peas.

So, just for the record -- when we're on Mars, and everybody wants to
get rid of somebody else because they're a total pain in the butt and
they're threatening our hard-earned way of life? Do it, don't whine,
MARTIAN UP and DO IT, then shut the hell up and MOVE ON. Even if its
me.

-Rob

Paperclip, Rubber Band and Gum Wrapper Engineer, Universe Class
Counselor, Empath, Party-Trick Class (working on it... HEY! I felt
that. STOP PSYCHICALLY POKING ME.)

> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[TheOt...@gmail.com]

Does no one remember BioSphere2?

Anyway, terraforming is relatively simple.

You need ice. There's lots of that in space. Comets and whatnot.

Throw the ice down on the planet (before we get there) and place it
strategically so that it melts into natural valleys.

Melt it.

Let the gasses from melting it dissipate.

Normally, if we were starting from scratch, we'd have issues here
under a heading called "Invent 'Life'", however, we're lucky. We've
got Amoebas! and lots of other stuff.

Find the heartiest water-only creatures you can find. Put them in the
water. They fart. They die. They create a bunch of really great
stuff when they fart and die. This great stuff includes a by-product
called atmosphere (it takes a while, but if you isolate the water
under big glass pyrex bowls (ooh! somebody go grab all the sodium
borate we can... we're going to need a lot of it and there's not THAT
much left. Death Valley is a good place to start) the atmosphere
concentrates a lot faster.)

Atmosphere supports plant life. Plants support Amminals. Amminals
are cute and cuddly. I digress. Some are also tasty. Some are also
us. Speaking of which, I really want to see the first Martian Horsey
gallop in 1/3 gravity and get used to it. I bet it will be a
beautimus thing to watch. Let's make unicorns. Why am I channeling a
14-year old Japanese girl? HEY I SAID QUIT PSYCHICALLY POKING ME.
Ok, SHE can't come.

Sigh.

Rob "MacGyver" Norton
"Sodium Borate can be so damned boring"

Hmm. Someone should write a Firewall application in Python and call it
PyRex. "ding"

> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Paul D. Fernhout]

On:
http://groups.google.com/group/virgle/web/related-ideas-to-project-virgle
From: "A Review of Licensing and Collaborative Development with Special
Attention to Design of Self-Replicating Space Habitat Systems"
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/SSI_Fernhout2001_web.html
"One reason more cooperation on such a library hasn't happened to date is
that the various societies people support have (seemingly) very different
objectives. For example, numerous space-settlement related efforts (such as
SSI http://www.ssi.org/, the Mars Society http://www.marssociety.org, the
Living Universe Foundation http://www.luf.org, PERMANENT
http://www.permanent.com, and the Artemis Project http://www.asi.org) each
have a different approach towards space settlement. Since so many bright
people want similar things, the question arises of how we can work together
to help all of these projects develop. Rather than argue whether L5 or Mars
or the asteroids or the Moon or the rings of Saturn should be humankind's
first space settlement, we could be asking what is common between those
efforts so that that groundwork can be shared."

Perhaps it is not "progress" but "transcendence" which is needed in our
society at this point? It continually boggles my mind that people are
willing to admit to problems of such extreme magnitude caused by "progress"
so far -- like the threat of nuclear war, the threat of bioengineered
plagues (or even just cluster bombs and land mines), the threat of economic
collapse (speculation, derivatives, etc.), the threat of widespread
pollution with unexpected consequences (e.g. endocrine disruptors from
plastics), the threat of global climate change, the threat of universal
fascism (by "liberals" or "conservatives" :-), the threat (or opportunity)
of an upcoming technological singularity, and so on (essentially the
technological face of the usual horsemen: war, plague, famine, leading to
death), but then, when faced with these huge threats, the solutions proposed
are timid, piecemeal, or regressive. Why not consider that big systemic
problems (sometimes resulting from incremental quantitative changes over
time adding up to vast qualitative changes) may require widespread
transcendental changes (even if just of the heart or the prevalent mythology)?

Where is the bold rethinking of economics (other than as each-for-his-own)?
Or trying to move beyond war (as opposed to win one)?
Or broad rethinking of the nature of work/school and contemplation of
appropriate technology and education?

At least Project Virgle is bold, though so are these projects:
http://www.inhabitat.com/
Example:
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/03/28/prefab-friday-zerohouse-shows-nothing-is-everything/
"Ever dreamed of owning a completely self-sufficient home that produces its
own energy, water, and is completely customizable? New York architect Scott
Specht has the answer to all of our zero-energy prefab dreams with the new
ZeroHouse™. This completely self-sustaining prefabricated house generates
its own power, collects its own water, processes its own waste and is 100%
automatic. Versatile, durable and site-sensitive, ZeroHouse can be erected
in almost any location in one day with steel frame components and a
helical-anchor foundation system that requires no excavation."

--Paul Fernhout

[Meatwad12]

I think we need all these diseases and wars to control the
population.

[eli]

yes i agree!

On Apr 1, 4:10 pm, tacodomains <tacodoma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's a cool idea any way :)

[Volucris]

I don't care either whether it's all fake. Google could do this, and
if they had the guts, I would be the first volunteer. Humans have
dreamed for centuries of going into space, not only just as visitors,
but also as settlers, colonizers. There's a whole universe out there,
and this is the next step of its exploration. Whatever it takes to get
up there, onto Mars or any other planet, I and millions of others
would do it. We would sacrifice our lives on Earth for the possibility
of the barest existence in space. It's the destiny of humankind. It's
the dream of thousands of years. The stars are waiting for us, and
maybe someday soon someone will have the courage to reach out and move
us a little closer to them.

[mike1937]

i agree and would also volunteer time, i think legions of people with
the correct expertise would.

[geeaea]

We're already doomed here on earth ..so the joke of the day
(compliments of Ms. April Furst) isn't necessarily all that funny.

I'm was hoping for more impact from AIDS and whatnot in prolific 3rd
world populations. Perhaps a good plague will solve our woes. 6
billion consumers just is about 3 billion too many ..and with 9
billion in the not too distant future, it's only going to get worse.
We'll have even more wars, but they won't be world wars, hence there
won't be enough impact upon the population. Environmental impact will
be mediated at great expense ..and fail. If we don't crack the energy
nut ..it's academic. If we do, then by all means, let's hit the road.

On Apr 1, 7:15 pm, Tobias Greenich <TobiasGreen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm all for it, and I'm reasonably sure that someone is eying this
> whole group and seriously analyzing the reactions. We either have
> technologies or the roots of technologies to get something like this
> done. Our scientists were planning trips to Bernard's Star in the
> Sixties, and drew up schematics.
>
> Curing cancer and AIDS would no doubt be a wonderful thing, increasing
> the quality of life for many. Consider, however, that once eradicated,
> there will be other things that crop up, things we didn't foresee.
> SARS was a wonderful example. Nature always tries to thin the ranks
> when we get too populous for our inhabited area.
>
> World Hunger is something that can be remedied for a while, but as
> populations increase it will become more and more of a problem. We
> consume more and more, and eventually cannot be supported. We study
> that in all kinds of animals. They adapt, and move elsewhere, or their
> ranks get thinned to a point where the consumables can recoup and the
> species can be supported once again.
>
> Good luck ending war. The arguments for that are too numerous to
> mention.
>
> Think about it... humanity is heading down hill even faster than we
> think. Do we really want all of our eggs in one basket?

[scarletdancer]

Yeah, I thought this was really cool and wanted it to be real.
(Although I did notice the questionnaire was a little silly.) I'm
disappointed this was an April Fools' joke. Come on guys, let's do
this thing for real. I'd volunteer to help colonize Mars in a
heartbeat if I weren't already getting too old and decrepit to do
something like that. In any case, I'd love to find a way to contribute
in some way to a mission like that, even if I didn't personally get to
go or gain financially from it in any way. Let's send some bright,
young, non-decrepit people to colonize Mars! Hurrah!

[slaz]

It's amazing how desperate people are for a big, grand idea like this.
I mean "desperate" in a good way; like "very ready". Today in the
news, american congress was hassling big oil executives about their
tax breaks and how much they don't invest in renewable energy, and
someone said, "america needs to figure out renewable energy with a
project on the scale of the manhattan project or apollo moon
landings." Not to get political, but the $0.5 trillion (or whatever)
spent on "helping" everyday iraqis get a snootful of freedom sounds
like more than enough, but who am I to suggest it?

On Apr 1, 3:58 pm, mysteriowallace <mysteriowall...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that this is the best idea ever, with or without Google and
> Virgin.  I also don't care if it's a joke.  For a very brief moment I
> thought they were serious and it was a glorious moment.
>
> DanW
>

> On Apr 1, 3:16 pm, Doram <DoramBaram...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Quoted from the last FAQ page answer after following the "Virgle is
> > real." link:
>
> > "oh, all right. Fine. April Fool's. Ha, ha, ha. It isn't real. There.
> > Are you happy? Does it please you to drag us out of our lovely little
> > fantasy world, to crush all our hopes and dreams? Is that really what
> > you need to hear? Fine, you've heard it. Virgle isn't real.
>
> > Yet."
>
> > You know what? I personally believe that if Sir Richard Branson was
> > crazy/brilliant enough to really go out and start Virgin Galactic,
> > then he is certainly smart enough to join in with what was admittedly
> > an April Fools Day joke, just to feel out what the real public
> > sentiment on the subject is, so that he can see if a project like this
> > could find real support out there.
>
> > I know it's an April Fools Day joke, and I DON'T CARE! I want to talk
> > about it anyways, because I think it is a good idea, and I want to
> > tell that to the only rich person I know that has these interests.
>
> > Who's with me!!
>

> > We WANT Virgle!!!- Hide quoted text -

[Jack]

I personally would love it if this project was real. Hell, I just
left the Air Force with the exact purpose of going back into college
and trying to get into the space field. Believe it or not some of us
would love it if we could leave Earth and have a one way trip to
another world just in the hopes of planting the seed of humanity some
where other then the home world. If he is looking for someone to go I
will be happy to go.

[redstar]

It was really exciting to believe this until I realized what the date
was.

It's okay. Someday, a project like this will be a reality. There will
very likely be recruitment drives to populate the colonies on
Humanity's second world.

Personally, I think getting our species out into the Solar System and,
eventually, the universe, will be what solves most of our "problems at
home". We are overpopulated and experiencing the growing pains of a
species desperate to expand. This is just my personal opinion because
it makes sense to me.

If there were an actual "populate Mars" project, I would go. No
question. Nothing on this planet is more exciting than the prospect of
going to another one. I can't wait until I hear an announcement like
this again, one that's entirely serious, because I would not hesitate
to sign up. This would be a very real way to get actively involved in
shaping Humanity's future in the universe. I hope that, some day, they
aren't joking.

[Doram]

Ok, responses to a lot of stuff:
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
On solving humanity's terrestrial problems before colonizing space:
---
I personally believe that going into space in any capacity will
prove the solution to untold numbers of problems here on the ground.
Out there lie practically infinite amounts of resources from energy to
industrial raw materials.
If you want to talk brass tacks, then consider this - What starts
wars? The most fundamental answer is control over resources. Why is
any nation interested in Iraq/Middle-East in general? Oil. We want.
They have. Why have the Israelis and Palestinians been fighting for
centuries? Land - for living, farming, and worshipping. What is the
difference between a billionaire and a homeless person? Resources.
What do you think would happen, if a nearly infinite source of
energy and matter for raw materials was found and made available to
everyone? Frankly, it exists, and it is only a few miles straight up,
just on the other side of our atmosphere. It's called space. Even if
we took advantage of every "green" energy source on the surface of the
Earth (from solar to wind to geothermal to tidal, everything...) we
would still be utilizing about 0.104% of the total energy that the sun
puts out every single day[1]. We exist in a solar system where our
planet only makes up 0.223% of the total mass of just the planets and
dwarf planets[2], not to mention the literal millions of asteroids in
and around the solar system. If we could just get out there, and bring
any amount of that back here, we would not need to fight over
resources any more. (Rants about how to make sure that it is fairly
and evenly spread to everyone is fodder for some other day's rant,
though...)
Finally, we will have made good progress towards achieving these
very same goals in the mere process of preparing to colonize Mars. We
will need resources beyond comprehension, and as has always been the
case with the space program, the technology produced will, at the very
least, trickle down through mundane commercialism to the masses.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
On Virgle, and why I was excited:
---
As has been mentioned by others here, there are numerous other
foundations, societies, etc., who are already promoting and working on
just this idea. Personally, I knew that the second someone made space
travel cheap enough, private citizens, through commercial ventures,
would explode into space. I was hoping this was the first step in that
direction.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
On my take of the 100 year plan:
---
Well, in my envisioning of the Diaspora of the Human race, I always
envisioned it going in this order:
1) Commercial Access to Space
2) Large Scale Space Station & Shipyard in Orbit around Earth
3) Small Scale Colonization of Moon
4) Construction of Large Scale Dyson Sphere or related technology for
Collection of Solar Energy
5) Large Scale Mining of Asteroids
6) Large Scale Colonization of Mars
7) Begin Planning for Colonization of Nearest System with Habitable
Planet
8) Onwards to the rest of the Galaxy
9) And the rest of the known Universe
At some point the whole question of "Aliens" would be answered as
well...

\/===/\ Footnotes /\===\/
[1] Calculated from values in Mother Earth News, Issue 227, P 50.
[2] Calculated from mass values listed on Wikipedia pages for each
planet, dropping %error values.

[Jared Croft]

In the words of the great Thomas Paine: "We have it in our power to
begin the world over again."

[Digital T]

ok, well we now know we have to numbers to do something like this, now
what is the next step we need to take to make this thing happen? and
no, the answer i (and im sure every other serious person) am not
looking for is waiting on someone with a lot of money. what if we all
came together and and helped finance the project ourselves. im sure
the pilgrims didnt have a whole lot of outside help when they got on
that boat.....

[mike1937]

I think the logical next step is a more extensive website where
information can be gathered, stored, and verified, a more organized
forum can be created, and people can collaborate. Or find out if such
a site, or other ones that we may utilize, already exist. Their are
already hundreds of forums discussing what methods are best for
colonization, but none where people really get into the extreme
details someone needs to actually execute a plan this complex. Check
out the thread on "virgle may be the real world Praxis" for some other
ideas on executing this project.

Software collaborations like this happen on a small scale everyday,
when the game bioshock came out and didn't work on about half of
computers the community worked together to come up with a patch within
a couple weeks.

The very first thing we need is to obtain free server space that
supports php (or some other server side scripting). Once just a little
infrastructure is in place, legions of people like myself that know
html and java are willing to finish the site.

If anyone decides to start this, let us know and post the URL here.

[Justin]

This isn't an April Fools joke, they only SAID it was to weed out the
true nonbelievers. DUH!

[Digital T]

ok, so does anyone have free server space we could launch this little
project on? lets get this thing up and moving!

> > that boat.....- Hide quoted text -

[kinkoblast]

I think colonizing Luna first might be a better idea than going
straight to Mars. For one thing, Luna is closer, meaning easier to
move stuff between the new colony and Earth... and less communications
lag. Little enough that a turn-based game would be playable between
someone on Luna and Earth... or so we could get advice when we
suddenly have a pressure leak.

Once we have habitation working fairly well on Luna, THEN we go on to
Mars. It's a much more logical (but a lot less exiting) way to do
things.

[mike1937]

we could learn a lot from going to the moon, but a permanent
settlement simply isn't feasible due to the few resources available.
When compared to the massive cost of building a moonbase what we learn
seems kinda diminished, after all foresight and terran models can
figure out much of the same thing. That's what the proposed website
would have to do first, figure out what basic research has been done
then what needs to be done. The information identified as being needed
could be assigned to some volunteers with the proper expertise, who
would perform experiments and would hopefully be reimbursed a bit from
donations, and then they would recieve credit for their contributions
on the site, and all the martians would sing their praises throughout
the millenia. Much like the april fools version of virgle proposes.

[John]

As this guy (quoted text) said, I think possibly the most interesting
aspect of this whole thing is the psychology angle.

Sure finally getting a Mars colony off the ground would be great, and
while I guess there could be a one in a million chance that they are
serious and just launching on April 1 for kicks, I think there is a
much better chance that this is a psychology project. It's probably
not, but it certainly would be an interesting one. It is true that the
responses will help gauge public feeling and public interest.

And even though google probably isn't doing anything with it you can
bet Mars projects are keeping an eye on what people are saying.
They'll be here trying to glean ideas to get more public funding, if
nothing else. Money is still the key issue here. Several groups have
workable plans, but even the cheapest projects run about $30 billion,
and that's just for a mission. A colony is another story entirely.

[Paul D. Fernhout]

Doram wrote:
> If you want to talk brass tacks, then consider this - What starts
> wars? The most fundamental answer is control over resources.

See: "War is a racket" by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient
Major General Smedley D. Butler - USMC Retired
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
"WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the
most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international
in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars
and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something
that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small
"inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of
the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make
huge fortunes. ... It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit
out of war. ..."

> If we could just get out there, and bring
> any amount of that back here, we would not need to fight over
> resources any more.

Earthly solutions exist:

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/03/28/prefab-friday-zerohouse-shows-nothing-is-everything/
"Ever dreamed of owning a completely self-sufficient home that produces its
own energy, water, and is completely customizable? New York architect Scott
Specht has the answer to all of our zero-energy prefab dreams with the new

ZeroHouse(tm). This completely self-sustaining prefabricated house generates

its own power, collects its own water, processes its own waste and is 100%
automatic. Versatile, durable and site-sensitive, ZeroHouse can be erected
in almost any location in one day with steel frame components and a
helical-anchor foundation system that requires no excavation."

_Cradle to Cradle_
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm
"Today, with our growing knowledge of the living earth, design can reflect a
new spirit. In fact, the authors write, when designers employ the
intelligence of natural systems—the effectiveness of nutrient cycling, the
abundance of the sun's energy—they can create products, industrial systems,
buildings, even regional plans that allow nature and commerce to fruitfully
co-exist."

http://www.celsias.com/2007/11/23/nanosolars-breakthrough-technology-solar-now-cheaper-than-coal/
"The Nanosolar company was founded in 2002 and is working to build the
world’s largest solar cell factory in California and the world’s largest
panel-assembly factory in Germany. They have successfully created a solar
coating that is the most cost-efficient solar energy source ever. Their
PowerSheet cells contrast the current solar technology systems by reducing
the cost of production from $3 a watt to a mere 30 cents per watt. This
makes, for the first time in history, solar power cheaper than burning coal."

Leaders still launch big wars where a few get the benefits and many others
pay the costs.

Again, "[The racket War is] can be smashed effectively only by taking the
profit out of war."

One way:
"The Abolition of Work" by Bob Black, 1985
http://www.whywork.org/rethinking/whywork/abolition.html
"I am not playing definitional games with anybody. When I say I want to
abolish work, I mean just what I say, but I want to say what I mean by
defining my terms in non-idiosyncratic ways. My minimum definition of work
is forced labor, that is, compulsory production. Both elements are
essential. Work is production enforced by economic or political means, by
the carrot or the stick. (The carrot is just the stick by other means.) But
not all creation is work. Work is never done for its own sake, it's done on
account of some product or output that the worker (or, more often, somebody
else) gets out of it. This is what work necessarily is. To define it is to
despise it. But work is usually even worse than its definition decrees. The
dynamic of domination intrinsic to work tends over time toward elaboration.
In advanced work-riddled societies, including all industrial societies
whether capitalist or "communist," work invariably acquires other attributes
which accentuate its obnoxiousness.
...
References: "The Right To Be Lazy" by Paul Lafargue
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/index.htm
"

Another way:
"The Dignity Movement"
http://www.breakingranks.net/weblog/dignitarian-society
"When the dignity movement targets illegitimate uses of rank, it is likely
to manifest not in million-man marches in the nation’s capital, but rather
in millions of schools, businesses, health care facilities, churches, and
families across the country - that is, within the relationships and
organizations in which rank is being abused. The specificity of rank -
parent, coach, boss, teacher, doctor, rabbi, roshi, imam, or priest - means
that a dignitarian society will be built relationship by relationship,
organization by organization.
...
It’s impossible to tell in advance precisely what an organization will look
like after it turns itself into a dignitarian one. This is because the
process of transformation must be one in which everyone involved has a voice
and everyone’s views have some political weight. But here are some things
that dignitarian institutions might do:

1. Recognize and Listen
2. Facilitate Questions & Protect Dissent
3. Hold Accountable and Affix Responsibility
4. Incorporate Flexible Rank
5. Compensate Equitably
6. Delegate Responsibility
7. Break the Taboo on Rank
8. Be Transparent
9. Flatten Unnecessary Hierarchies
10. Promote Peer to Peer Organization
"

Another way:
http://oceania.org/mall/millimag.html
"Aquarius is a cybergenically grown floating island - a space colony at sea."

Yet another way:
RepRap
http://www.reprap.org/
"The promise of advanced fabrication technology that can copy itself is a
truly remarkable concept with far reaching implications."
- Sir James Dyson, 17 April 2007.
"[RepRap] has been called the invention that will bring down global
capitalism, start a second industrial revolution and save the environment..."
- The front page of The Guardian, November 25, 2006.
"Money is a sign of poverty."
- Iain M. Banks, 1987.

From:
http://www.i-dig.info/culture/culturefaq.html
"There is no hierarchy as such in the Culture's society every individual
(machine or organic) is equal. The Culture is post-scarcity due to
sophisticated technology. That is to say because the Culture can manipulate
things at an atomic level anything can be produced with ease so anybody can
have anything they want. Money, therefore, has no place in the Culture (in
fact the Culture considers money to be a sign of poverty)."

My feeling now: Let's build cities in space just because they might be
wonderful places for trillions of people to live someday. Anything else is a
bonus.

--Paul Fernhout

[mike1937]

wOOt! I have finished an extremely early alpha of a website for our
cause. Keep in mind that I did this in about five minutes because I
got bored, and the server its currently on doesn't support any server
side script, that means that the user can do whatever they want on it
but no one else can see it no matter how much programming you put in.
The links dont work, though I did make them do superfluous animations.
And the fonts kinda cool.

Hope this actually works: http://home.comcast.net/~arid_shadow/marsalpha.html

It's more of an outline meant to galvanize you guys to come up with
something better than an alpha, but if I get bored I might add a bit
more.

On Apr 2, 7:14 pm, "Paul D. Fernhout" <pdfernh...@kurtz-fernhout.com>
wrote:

> Doram wrote:
> > If you want to talk brass tacks, then consider this - What starts
> > wars? The most fundamental answer is control over resources.
>
> See: "War is a racket" by Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Recipient
> Major General Smedley D. Butler - USMC Retired
> http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
> "WAR is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the
> most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international
> in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars
> and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something
> that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small
> "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of
> the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make
> huge fortunes. ... It can be smashed effectively only by taking the profit
> out of war. ..."
>
> > If we could just get out there, and bring
> > any amount of that back here, we would not need to fight over
> > resources any more.
>

> Earthly solutions exist:http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/03/28/prefab-friday-zerohouse-shows-not...

> "Ever dreamed of owning a completely self-sufficient home that produces its
> own energy, water, and is completely customizable? New York architect Scott
> Specht has the answer to all of our zero-energy prefab dreams with the new
> ZeroHouse(tm). This completely self-sustaining prefabricated house generates
> its own power, collects its own water, processes its own waste and is 100%
> automatic. Versatile, durable and site-sensitive, ZeroHouse can be erected
> in almost any location in one day with steel frame components and a
> helical-anchor foundation system that requires no excavation."
>
> _Cradle to Cradle_
> http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm
> "Today, with our growing knowledge of the living earth, design can reflect a
> new spirit. In fact, the authors write, when designers employ the

> intelligence of natural systems--the effectiveness of nutrient cycling, the
> abundance of the sun's energy--they can create products, industrial systems,

> buildings, even regional plans that allow nature and commerce to fruitfully
> co-exist."
>

> http://www.celsias.com/2007/11/23/nanosolars-breakthrough-technology-...

[M. Thyer]

Go get a job with NASA, you're on the same page with them.
Unfortunately, the technical challenges that face any solar system
colonization (or manned exploration) project are essentially the
same. Sure, Mars has an atmosphere and Luna does not. And we all
know that 1/16 Earth gravity is a lot less than 1/3 Earth gravity.
Realistically, the first step in this project has nothing to do with
Mars or Luna at all. Rather, it has to do with learning how to live
on Mars in an Earth based analog.