Is Vundle dead?

[Paul]

I am wondering just how often Vundle updates its list of scripts. I am aware that it’s FAQ says “multiple times per day from the RSS feed”¹, and the feed says it was last updated on 2012-11-09. tComment was updated recently to version 2.07², so I did a :BundleInstall! to see if it would update. It didn’t, so I looked on Vundle’s github mirror of it³ only to see it’s on version 2.05, released well over a year ago! I checked the plugin it installed in my .vim/, and indeed it’s using 2.05.

So now I’m asking myself, “Is Vundle a dead project?”.

¹ http://vim-scripts.org/vim/faq.html
² http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1173#2.07
³ https://github.com/vim-scripts/tComment

--

.

[Phil Dobbin]

I don't know if gmarik is actively supporting it any longer but I just
add my own plugins to its framework & it carries on being one of my
essential parts of Vim.

Can't imaging Vim without it anymore. It helps me to keep multiple
distros (I run about seven flavours of Linux & OS X) in sync really easily.

Have a look at his github repo & check the issues page out to see if
he's responding to user issues.

Cheers,

Phil...

[Benjamin R. Haskell]

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012, Paul wrote:

> I am wondering just how often Vundle updates its list of scripts. I am
> aware that it’s FAQ says “multiple times per day from the RSS feed”¹,
> and the feed says it was last updated on 2012-11-09. tComment was
> updated recently to version 2.07², so I did a :BundleInstall! to see
> if it would update. It didn’t, so I looked on Vundle’s github mirror
> of it³ only to see it’s on version 2.05, released well over a year
> ago! I checked the plugin it installed in my .vim/, and indeed it’s
> using 2.05.
>
> So now I’m asking myself, “Is Vundle a dead project?”.

First, "hasn't been updated in a couple weeks" != "dead project".

Also, you seem to be conflating vim-scripts (an automated crawler of
www.vim.org/scripts, converting them to GitHub repos) with Vundle
(itself a Vim script to allow easy installation of Vim scripts via git).

AFAICT, vim-scripts doesn't seem to be updated all that frequently,
especially lately. IIRC, it was running on Google App Engine. Maybe
changes there have made it less viable on the "free" tier. Not sure
what more to add w/o some feedback from whoever's running it.

For your specific problem, though, you should be able to point your
Vundle config directly at the tComment git repo (found in the
www.vim.org description). Change:

Bundle 'tComment' " or whatever vim-scripts calls it

To:

Bundle 'tomtom/tcomment_vim'

(Will download it directly from GitHub.)

--
Best,
Ben

[Paul]

On Saturday, 24 November, 2012 at 18:25:46 GMT, Phil Dobbin wrote:
>On 11/24/2012 06:14 PM, Paul wrote:
>
>> I am wondering just how often Vundle updates its list of scripts. I am
>> aware that it’s FAQ says “multiple times per day from the RSS feed”¹,
>> and the feed says it was last updated on 2012-11-09. tComment was
>> updated recently to version 2.07², so I did a :BundleInstall! to see if
>> it would update. It didn’t, so I looked on Vundle’s github mirror of it³
>> only to see it’s on version 2.05, released well over a year ago! I
>> checked the plugin it installed in my .vim/, and indeed it’s using 2.05.
>>
>> So now I’m asking myself, “Is Vundle a dead project?”.
>>
>> ¹ http://vim-scripts.org/vim/faq.html
>> ² http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1173#2.07
>> ³ https://github.com/vim-scripts/tComment
>
>I don't know if gmarik is actively supporting it any longer but I just
>add my own plugins to its framework & it carries on being one of my
>essential parts of Vim.

Well, I was using Pathogen previous to Vundle, and the advantage Vundle is supposed to have over Pathogen is that it can update all the plugins in one go. If it’s not doing that from its own vim-scripts mirror, I suppose Vundle users will just have to add a plugin’s original git repository instead, and if a plugin isn’t using git, update it manually just like in old times.

>Have a look at his github repo & check the issues page out to see if
>he's responding to user issues.

I did that already, still don’t have a response to it after 20 days.

--

.

[Paul]

On Saturday, 24 November, 2012 at 18:34:00 GMT, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:
>Also, you seem to be conflating vim-scripts (an automated crawler of
>www.vim.org/scripts, converting them to GitHub repos) with Vundle
>(itself a Vim script to allow easy installation of Vim scripts via
>git).

You’re right, I was conflating the two. I should have asked if the vim-scripts project was dead, not Vundle.

>For your specific problem, though, you should be able to point your
>Vundle config directly at the tComment git repo (found in the
>www.vim.org description).

Indeed, that’s what I’m doing now, thanks.

--

.

[Marc Weber]

Currently there are 3 widely used plugin management implementations:

pathogon
vim-addon-manager
vundle

They all get the basic things done, so they all are helpful. They all
can checkout git repos (which most packages today use anyway) - so they
can't really be out of date. If they work for you, use them and be
happy.

vim-addon-manager differs in some aspects (by design)
- 2 maintainers, thus bugs and requests usually get fixed within less
than 48 hours. Probably it doesn't matter, cause vundle and pathogen
are very stable, doing what they were written for.
- you can activate plugins at runtime very often. VAM sources
plugin/*.vim files for you.
- it supports dependencies (selecting plugins by name).
It does so by reading an addon-info.json file
- it suppotrs a pool of known good plugin which also allows to deprecate
superseded plugins - you can still install them, but you'll get a
warning. Eg have a look at http://vam.mawercer.de/ to get an idea
about how names are mapped to sources.
- it can install svn,hg,darcs,... sources as well as get zip files
from www.vim.org. We wrote as script dumping the important parts of
the database.
- usually a name is associated with a plugin automatically, however
you can still choose to install plugins in a vundle/pathogen like
style by using 'github:name/repo' name rewriting
- there is experimental support to lazily load plugins whenever you
edit a specific filetype.

However depending on git only (like pathogen and vundle) also has some
advantages: You can use git submodule to version your .vim state etc.
VAM does not support that. Plugins seldomly broke for me which is why
I didn't see a requirement to think about a realy fix. I still see this
as kind of flaw.

However VAM was written to make everything jsut work, thus it can also
cope with plugins having files in the wrong directories. Thus it moves
top-level foo.vim files into the appropriate plugin/syntax/indent
directories if the plugin type on www.vim.org is not set correctlly.
And it adds dependencies information for plugins which don't support the
addon-info.json themselves yet. Eg have a look at:
https://github.com/MarcWeber/vim-addon-manager-known-repositories/blob/master/db/patchinfo.vim
to get an idea. There are so many plugins out there, and sometimes its
hard to find the best one. By asking the community to help masking
outdated packages the goal of vim-addon-manager is to improve overall
experience and to get it right for the most common average "just let me
use try and finish" use case.

In the very long run (if I had more time to work on it) - I'd like to
separate the dependency and patch stuff and put it on www.vim.org so
that all plugin management solutions can read it. VAM still is a 20% of
effort yields 80% of value project.

I talked about it that much now - even though this might be considered
off-topic - is because it was not mentioned - and I think that Vim users
should know that it exists as alternative.

vim-scripts.org was broken for 2-3 month in the past - but fixed again.
We all have day jobs - almost none of us gets payed for this - so
unfortunately it may happen that things are broken for a couple of weeks
in rare cases.

Yours
Marc Weber

[ping]

thanks for the good discussion. the comment is helpful. now I know if I need, one of the 3 (or maybe all?) can be my choice.
for me today I'm still manually install plugins per needful. it's overall not a painful work.
99% the installation is just put .vim file in plugins and help doc in doc folder.
I'm thinking what might be the real driver for me to believe I MUST (or really BETTER) to install one of those.

[Marc Weber]

Excerpts from ping's message of Sun Nov 25 17:31:33 +0100 2012:

> thanks for the good discussion. the comment is helpful. now I know if I
> need, one of the 3 (or maybe all?) can be my choice.

> for metoday I'm still manually install plugins per needful. it's overall
> not a painful work.
> 99%the installation is just put.vim file in plugins and help doc in doc

> folder.
> I'm thinking what might be the real driver for me to believe I MUST (or
> really BETTER) to install one of those.

Its *not* about installing, but about
- updating
- removing
- trouble shooting

And there are a lot of plugins which ship with
plugin/
autoload/
syntax/
doc/

files. So it may require book-keeping, and you always run the risk that
files get renamed, so copying files over .vim is not enough.

By trouble shooting I mean: VAM implements bisecting nowadays. Thus you
can make it activate sets of plugins to find the one causing trouble to
you in a case. Not loading a plugin is as easy as removing a name from a
list or commenting a "Bundle foo" line using vundle.

It happened at least to 2-3 people that they were using old Sander's
snipmate running into trouble, asking for help. And the fix was always
"upgrade to latest version, it provides additional helpful features such
as automatically reloading script files depending no file modification
date" etc. If you install manually, you're going to miss such small
changes over time. Eg VAM does no longer let you install the old
snipmate by default - this way it can protect you against failure or
against spending your time on outdated tools.
Same happened to pyflake like plugins - people usually are more happy with
either syntastic or vim-addon-syntax-checker.

For this reason I invite the community to contribute to
vim-addon-manager-known-repository - so that overall user experience can
be maximized to everybody.

More than that you don't want to load all plugins always. Eg plugins
such as DrawIt may be useful once a month. What do do?
Using VAM you just do:
:ActivateAddon DrawIt
at runtime and you're done.

Marc Weber

[Chris Lott]

On this topic-- is it difficult to move from Pathogen to VAM? Can I
keep my bundle directory of plugins but use VAM with it?

c
--
Chris Lott <ch...@chrislott.org>

[Marcin Szamotulski]

> --
> You received this message from the "vim_use" maillist.
> Do not top-post! Type your reply below the text you are replying to.
> For more information, visit http://www.vim.org/maillist.php

Yes. I use the following configuration of VAM. It reads addons from
a directory:

let vam_install_path = expand('$HOME').'/.vim/vam-addons'
let &rtp.=','.vam_install_path.'/vim-addon-manager'
let g:addons=filter(map(filter(split(glob(g:vim_addon_manager['plugin_root_dir']."/*"),"\n"), 'isdirectory(v:val)'),'fnamemodify(v:val,":t")'),'v:val !~ ''vim-addon-manager.*''')
call vam#ActivateAddons(g:addons, {'auto_install' : 0})

I also have the following command to update all addons:
command! UpdateMyAddons :set nomore|call vam#install#Update(g:addons)|set more


Just change vam_install_path to your liking. The g:addons is a list of
all the addons which VAM will take care of. You can allso remove some
of them if you don't want to activate them on startup but only if you
really need them.

Best,
Marcin

[Phil Dobbin]

On 11/25/2012 05:55 PM, Marcin Szamotulski wrote:

> On 08:46 Sun 25 Nov , Chris Lott wrote:
>> On this topic-- is it difficult to move from Pathogen to VAM? Can I
>> keep my bundle directory of plugins but use VAM with it?

[snip for brevity]

As an aside, this topic is starting to generate spam originating from China.

It's not addressed to the list but delivered directly to my inbox (it
has the subject line of this post).

Cheers,

Phil...

[ping]

these are really good points.
I'd like to start this project of "migrating" to VAM from "manual mode".
but I really don't want to risk my production laptop by any chance. maybe I start from another "non-important" system and see how I feel when I move on.
is there anything I need to be careful about ?

thanks!

regards
ping

[ping]

On 11/25/2012 01:45 PM, ping wrote:
> these are really good points.

> I'd liketo start this project of "migrating" to VAM from "manual mode".

> but I really don't want to risk my production laptop by any chance.
> maybe I start from another "non-important" system and see how I

> feelwhen I move on.

sorry If I (top)posted with html (bymistake).
and also I currently installed more than 50 plugins, I'm really not sure
how it goes with the VAM installed.
but it sounds like a solution to scale.

[Marco]

2012-11-25 Phil Dobbin:

> As an aside, this topic is starting to generate spam originating from China.
>
> It's not addressed to the list but delivered directly to my inbox (it
> has the subject line of this post).

It's unrelated to this thread. Since several weeks, I have the same
issues every time I send a mail to the vim list.


Marco

[Phil Dobbin]

It's the first one I've received. I always check my bitbucket before
deleting & there has been no sign of anything before.

Cheers,

Phil...

[Benjamin R. Haskell]

I've been getting these for months. It's one of those "inbox
protection" schemes, where the sender is forced to click a link to let
the message pass through. It appears to be a mobile phone mailbox, so
probably it was errantly subscribed in the first place. Can an admin
take a look?

Email is of the form:

13657...@139.com

Where the local part (13657...) is a phone number. (A mobile prepaid card, according
to Googling it.)

--
Best,
Ben

[stosss]

I have been getting email from a ad...@139.com with a lot of Chinese
characters on both sides of admin. It is going straight into spam now
and has been after the second time I got it.

[Benjamin R. Haskell]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012, stosss wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:
>>
>> I've been getting these for months. It's one of those "inbox
>> protection" schemes, where the sender is forced to click a link to
>> let the message pass through. It appears to be a mobile phone
>> mailbox, so probably it was errantly subscribed in the first place.
>> Can an admin take a look?
>>
>> Email is of the form:
>>
>> 13657...@139.com
>>
>> Where the local part (13657...) is a phone number. (A mobile prepaid
>> card, according to Googling it.)
>>
>
> I have been getting email from a ad...@139.com with a lot of Chinese
> characters on both sides of admin. It is going straight into spam now
> and has been after the second time I got it.

Yes, the emails come from ad...@139.com, but they're on behalf of the
13657...@139.com subscriber (so `admin@` is akin to `postmaster@`).

--
Best,
Ben

[Benjamin Klein]

I have been getting these (from 139.com) too -- as far as I can tell, I’ve gotten one at least each time I’ve written to the list.

--
b

Sent from my iPhone

[John Beckett]

Benjamin R. Haskell wrote:
> Yes, the emails come from ad...@139.com, but they're on
> behalf of the 13657...@139.com subscriber (so `admin@` is
> akin to `postmaster@`).

I just had another attempt at working out how the spam
from ad...@139.com is being sent to each person who posts.
As a manager of vim_use I have exported the current subscriber
list which shows
email address, nickname, time joined, delivery method

The only entry matching the pattern \<139\> shows an email
address of the form (the "j.smith" is made up):
j.smith.139 -at- gmail.com

Three other entries match pattern "139":
1. <long user name, mostly digits> -at- n5.nabble.com
2. <user name of digits> -at- qq.com
3. A gmail.com user with "139" in nickname.

No entries match pattern "1365" (my mail has a couple of
"mailto" links with target 13657854020 -at- 139.com).

Google translate shows this for a spam message:
When you send mail, the mailbox has not been activated.
We have to send the SMS notification Ta activation
mailbox, check your e-mail.

As of when you receive this message, you activate and
read the letter sent to the following email as follows:
...

Perhaps it is a subscriber using a system that forwards mail
to a 139.com address, or a broken attempt to mirror the vim_use
mailing list inside China, or some scam.

If anyone has some ideas for how to remove this irritation,
or any further checking I might do, please post here or
direct to me.

John

[Marc Weber]

Excerpts from Chris Lott's message of Sun Nov 25 18:46:06 +0100 2012:

> On this topic-- is it difficult to move from Pathogen to VAM? Can I
> keep my bundle directory of plugins but use VAM with it?

AFAIK it doesn't make a big difference cause both pathogen an VAM put
all plugins into one directory. In the VAM case it'll also contain
vim-addon-manager (the code, only a small file will be loaded on each startup, install code as needed)
vim-addon-manager-known-repositories (the pool associating names with sources)

If directories already exist VAM will use them, and run 'git pull' on
git directories when you want to update them. If they don't it'll use
the sources registered at VAM-known-repositories to fetch.

So just reading the the section 2 in docs about how to install it
setting the directory should be enough.

Marc Weber

[Charles Campbell]

Marc Weber wrote:
(snip)

> More than that you don't want to load all plugins always. Eg plugins
> such as DrawIt may be useful once a month. What do do? Using VAM you
> just do: :ActivateAddon DrawIt at runtime and you're done. Marc Weber

(snip)

Of course, DrawIt uses vim's autoload method, and so has a very low
overhead (sets up 6 commands and 2 maps) -- its main script isn't loaded
until used.

And, there's AsNeeded...

AsNeeded provides on-demand loading; put what would normally go in
.vim/plugin
and it will be loaded when requested. By request means: when one has
issued a
command or called a function in the plugin. Unfortunately it does not do
on-demand loading based on maps that may be defined in the plugin.

You may get it from:

http://vim.sourceforge.net/scripts/script.php?script_id=915 (stable)
http://mysite.verizon.net/astronaut/vim/index.html#ASNEEDED
(cutting edge)

Regards,
Chip Campbell