A question for the solar experts on the list. If we wanted to set up
a remote solar-powered MP with say a 10W solar panel, what sort of
battery would you recommend in combination for long term use?
Thanks... Steve
> A question for the solar experts on the list. If we wanted to set up
> a remote solar-powered MP with say a 10W solar panel, what sort of
> battery would you recommend in combination for long term use?
voltage regulated lead-acid batteries, like Panasonic LC-R series. You'll find
these also as power backup in alarm systems.
As a side note: In Germany insurance companies demand that these backup
batteries are replaced every two years. So the companies that perform this
service are a good source of those batteries in mint condition.
You will also need a charge regulator and a low voltage disconnect circuit.
Cheers,
Elektra
Here is a link to an excellent resource for planning a solar powered
deployment, if a little pessimistic.
http://www.ubnt.com/wiki/Planning_a_wisp_solar_powered_tower
From the guide, Assuming you are powering a 4w device, this equates to
96W per day,
"You will need a battery bank that will run your equipment for a set
amount of days without sunlight, and still not be discharged more than
50%. To work this out, we take the daily power usage, multiply it by
the number of days , and then multiply again by 2 so we factor in the
50% discharge limit."
You can reduce this somewhat to a day with a battery 50% discharged or
less, so if an NS2 requires 4w, it's requirement for the day is 96...
So it's 96 * 2 / 12.. Which equates to a 16AH battery, or an 8Ah if
you want the battery depleted after a day.
A 10w solar panel can deliver ~0.8 to a 12v battery, if the battery is
rated at 16Ah, you will need 16 hrs to charge the battery fully, but
thats if you are lucky, for a 8Ah battery, that's 8hrs, but again if
you are extremely lucky.
Please don't take this as gospel, it is just an assumption not knowing
your exact scenario. As a rule of thumb it is always best to start
with your equipment requirements and go from there as the guide
explains, and always assume that Solar panels do not always meet
specifications.
What are the final power requirements of the MP if I may ask?
Don
On Wednesday, August 11, 2010, Steve Song
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "village-telco-dev" group.
> To post to this group, send email to village-...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to village-telco-...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/village-telco-dev?hl=en.
>
>
The battery is just a reservoir, so its size is determined by the time
during which the solar panel is not able to power the MP. If the solar
panel cannot recharge the battery fully on *most* days, it's not going
to stay up.
From the testing for AfrikaBurns, I figure that a panel can provide a
continuous feed of 15-20% of its rated power output in a Cape Town
climate. Obviously the panel wattage is halved because of nighttime,
but it also has the sun striking it at an angle most of the time.
Solar panels are surprisingly effective in cloudy conditions.
If an MP consumes an average of 2.5W, a 10W panel is only going to
keep the MP up continuously if sunlight is optimal or the MP is turned
off at night. I suggest a 20W panel for cloudy or temperate locations
to ensure that the battery is fully charged by the afternoon of each
day.
After that, the battery reserve calculation is trivial - it only needs
to keep the MP up overnight with a little more reserve in case of an
especially dark day. If a lead-acid battery discharges more than 50%
of its capacity, it ages considerably more.
So 2.5W at 12V is 200mA. We want to keep the MP up for 20 hours of
zero power input - we need 200mA x 20 hours = 4AH. A battery that can
discharge 4AH without being damaged is 8AH.
So I recommend a minimum 20W panel with minimum 8AH battery.
David
Hi Steve
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:43 PM, Steve Song
<steve...@shuttleworthfoundation.org> wrote:
> A question for the solar experts on the list. If we wanted to set up
> a remote solar-powered MP with say a 10W solar panel, what sort of
> battery would you recommend in combination for long term use?
So I recommend a minimum 20W panel with minimum 8AH battery.
| Your location: | Cape Town, South Africa |
|---|---|
| Using data from Capetown/Df Malan weather station | |
| Min. solar irradiation per day | 2.44 kWh / m2 |
| Average solar irradiation per day | 5.20 kWh / m2 |
| Max. solar irradiation per day | 7.89 kWh / m2 |
| Energy usage (per day) | 0.06 kWh |
|---|---|
| Power from other sources (wind, hydro, etc) | 0 Ah a day at 12 V |
| System voltage | 12 V |
|---|---|
| Current required (factoring loss) | 5 Ah at 12 V |
| Solar Panels | 2 × Suntech Solar Panel 20Watt 12Volt Multi-crystalline) |
| Solar Charge Controller | 1 × Morningstar Sunguard 12Volt 4.5Amp Regulator |
| Days of battery backup | 5 days |
| Battery depth of discharge | 50 % |
| Battery bank required (factoring loss) | 54 Ah 1 × Fullriver Sealed Lead Acid AGM Battery 12Volt 60Ah HGL |
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "village-telco-dev" group.
To post to this group, send email to village-...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to village-telco-...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/village-telco-dev?hl=en.
I am using model aircraft batteries I bought from hobbyking.com in Hong
Kong. The battery I chose is 1AH at 14.5V or 14Wh, cost $15, and
weights 115g. This tiny battery will run the MP for perhaps 6 hours,
plenty for my application. The charger is at the top, which runs off
12V. I have velcro-ed one battery to my MP 1.3 prototype on the left,
so with a small telephone my MP is now much more portable.
These batteries pack quite a punch, when I accidentally touched the
flying leads together there was a scary loud "crack", an impressive
spark and lots of smoke. These tiny batteries can supply > 50A into
model aircraft motors.
The MP has a microcontroller with A/D and D/A - it would be possible to
modify the MP to have a built in solar charge controller at very little
extra cost. Battery charge state could be read out via Wifi, automatic
watchdog could be added. Nice project if some one is interested.
Cheers,
David
Thanks for your interest in this project.
The Mesh Potato circuit diagram in on the wiki. We have an Ar2317
processor for Wifi and an Atmel microcontroller (uC) that is currently
used as some glue logic for the FXS port. It's very similar to an
Arduino type microcontroller. It has plenty of analog and digital I/O
that is not being used.
There is no decent data available on the AR2317 - the good people at
Atheros require us to pay USD$100,000 to get the data, even for a
project with huge good will like the Village Telco. We have some how
managed to develop the Mesh Potato despite this.
Yes, some sort of control bus is required between the AR2317 and the uC.
Something could be knocked up a spare GPIO and the CPLD. Perhaps make
the uC look like another SPI port. One side of the AR2317 serial port
is already connected to the uC.
Elektra might have some ideas on appropriate algorithms for solar charge
controllers.
Cheers,
David
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to village-telco-dev
> +unsub...@googlegroups.com.
having run a solar-powered home for 18 years, I'd like to suggest to use
voltage regulated lead-acid batteries (VRLA). 7 Ampere hours is
sufficient to power a Mesh-Potato for approximately 30 hours. However
discharge cycles going below 80% should generally be avoided in order to
have the batteries last long, so I'd recommend about twice the capacity.
So far we haven't pulled all registers to save power on the MP yet. The
FXS module consumes considerable power once the driver is loaded. Maybe
we can save some power here.
Floating lead-acid batteries from motorcycles or cars have properties
that are not really well suited for such an application. They can only
take a very limited amount of charge-discharging cycles.
A simple shunt charge regulator will do. We can do pulse-width
modulation of the incoming current by means of a single MOS-FET
transistor. I have been building charge-regulators like this. They were
shunting the solar panel when the battery voltage was exceeding 13.8
Volt and started to charge again at 13.4 Volt. Depending on the state of
charge the length of the pulses varies. Once the battery is charged the
battery receives a single short charge pulse every now and then. If the
battery is under load the pulse length increases.
We need to have a low-voltage disconnect, too. This can again be done by
a single transistor, or we can put the Atheros SoC and the FXS chip in
suspend mode, if this is supported.
Cheers,
Elektra
Some more thoughts:
1/ As Elektra suggests deep cycle batteries are designed for this sort
of job However I imagine they are specialised kit in much of Africa. I
wonder if a regular starter battery would work OK if we are only
discharging to a few % of it's AH capacity? For example my (petrol) car
starter battery is 60AH, a MP would use 2-3AH per day at 12V.
2/ A MP power reduction project would be a nice project for some one.
As well as low power operation of the FXS port there might be some
register that lets us reduce the AR2317 clock speed. We rarely use 100%
CPU, especially when not making calls.
3/ Elektra with the shunt regulator the mosfet switch connects across
the panel? So when the switch closes if shorts the panel or the
duration of the pulse? Does it get hot? A circuit might help if you
have one. Sounds like a cool design.
4/ A sleep timer was something the Air Jaldi people were very interested
in. The MP could be told to go to sleep from midnight to 6am for
example. So the uC would open the power switch (same one used for low
voltage cut out), then close it again hours later to bring the rest of
the MP up again. This can dramatically cut the night-time power
consumption and hence battery capacity needed.
5/ I messed around with a related device (measured battery voltage,
watchdog, sleep timer etc) a few years ago:
http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=68
Cheers,
David
> Deep cycle batteries should be easy to find in any city near water, since they are standard kit for just about any marine power system. For example, the backup power supply on the OpenBTS installation in Niue was built from locally purchased boat batteries. There are very few things that can be purchased locally in Niue but deep-cycle batteries were no problem.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
In my work with Inveneo we were able to find high quality deep-cycle batteries from solar and UPS dealers in most larger African cities. The most difficult place to source them was Freetown in Sierra Leone, but even there we were able to find a few importers and suppliers.
best,
Jeff
yes. The circuit is very effective and simple. Of course you need a
diode to prevent current from the battery floating to transistor. To
have such a diode is a good idea, anyway.
> So when the switch closes if shorts the panel or the
> duration of the pulse? Does it get hot?
At the power levels we need for the MP, no. A heat sink is not required,
given that the MOS-Fet switches fast enough.
> A circuit might help if you
> have one. Sounds like a cool design.
>
Sure, I'll draw one.
> 4/ A sleep timer was something the Air Jaldi people were very interested
> in. The MP could be told to go to sleep from midnight to 6am for
> example. So the uC would open the power switch (same one used for low
> voltage cut out), then close it again hours later to bring the rest of
> the MP up again. This can dramatically cut the night-time power
> consumption and hence battery capacity needed.
>
I thought about this idea, too. However I would personally prefer a
telephone system that allows to make calls anytime. There are number of
reasons that crossed my mind: Call someone in case of a emergency. Make
a cheap international call to someone in a timezone far away during
their daylight time.
Cheers,
Elektra
A few notes:
Lithium vs Lead-acid: Definitely lead-acid, due to expense,
availability and that methamphetamine addicts steal lithium batteries
for their modified Birch.
Deep-cycle vs standard: True deep-cycle absorbent glass mat (AGM)
batteries used in marine applications are expensive and unnecessary.
Rather use a cheap gel lead-acid battery (often touted as deep-cycle
but not truly so) and look after it with a clever regulator. The best
source in South Africa for such batteries is http://deltecpower.co.za/
A clever regulator needs to:
a. separate the battery from the power consumption, so that it can cut
power when battery charge drops to 50%.
b. Apply a charge of 14.4-15V when the battery needs charging and
apply a charge of 13.5-13.8V when the battery is full.
I have been using a Solsum 6.6f from
http://www.sustainable.co.za/steca-solum-6-6f-solar-charge-controller.html
(see attached picture). It's rated at 6A and requires a minimum input
of 15VDC, which it then regulates to one of the above voltages. The
main components are:
a. ATTINY44V-10SSU uC
b. 2 x FR2407 MOSFETs
c. 2 x 75321S MOSFETs
d. FAJ15 GFX diode
20W solar input requires max 2A and price increases exponentially with
amperage so it would be worthwhile sourcing a 2A circuit with same
function. I haven't found one yet.
The regulator has 3 LEDs that flash different patterns according to
charge state. I am not sure whether the regulator shunts the panel
when the battery is full, but that would certainly not work for when
the regulator is deployed as a UPS downstream from a 220VAC
transformer.
The regulator requires minimum 15VDC input because it cannot step the
voltage up when charging. Solar panels actually deliver 21VDC (20W at
447mA max). The Linksys PSU, as well as many other similar 12V PSUs
actually deliver 16VDC. We should ensure that the PSUs that ship with
the MP do the same, so that the same regulator/battery combination
could be used as UPS and conversion to solar involves nothing more
than connecting a panel.
Optimum lead-acid charge voltages fluctuate wildly with temperature,
so the battery should not be sited in direct sunlight. I suggest
keeping the battery and regulator inside the house close to the phone,
which would mean another wire pair running to the MP to deliver
battery charge information. Battery charge info is nice but is it
necessary? All that it would provide is notice of imminent power-down.
I would rather see a separate regulator/battery unit that can just be
spliced into the DC power supply (solar or transformer) and sit in a
cool place.
David's WiSPCaR is useful for preventing router hangs on remote
routers, but they are not necessarily power-related. I find on WRTs
and Nanos that certain processes hang while others stay up, which
would complicate an onboard monitoring system. I prefer to set a cron
job to cycle remote routers every early morning.
David C
Yes that makes sense. My cheap petrol car starter battery gets
discharged a few % each time I crank the car (200A for 10 seconds) and
lasts for 3+ years.
With this thread I was just pointing out that because the MP consumption
is so low, and starter batteries so common, it's nice to know that a
starter battery will do the job if that's all that is available. I
doubt we will be in a position to mandate battery choice.
In terms of implementation on an MP, here is a suggested plan:
[ ] Implement a prototype charger with a regular Atmel microcontroller.
[ ] Reflash the MP uC and hook up some wires to the prototype charger
components. This will kill the telephony functionality but demo the
charger on MP hardware.
[ ] design a communication path between the AR2317 and the uC. Key
issue is how to make sure telephony software (a FIFO buffer) is not
interrupted when doing charger work.
[ ] implement a communication path, write driver software and test it.
We need a way to send bytes between the AR2317 and the uC. This could
be tricky. There is one spare GPIO on the AR2317. The AR2317 RS232 tx
already goes to the uC. Communications could possibly limited to when
there is not an active phone call. It is also possible to reprogram the
CPLD, e.g. to implement a second SPI device.
[ ] integrate running prototype charger and telephony on MP at the same
time.
Some references:
1) MP01 schematic, note AR2317 GPIOs and uC circuit:
http://villagetelco.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/villagetelco/sch
2) uC code for MP01:
http://villagetelco.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/villagetelco/david/avr/
Cheers,
David
I have been running a new solar-powered Nano2 on a mountain site for
the past few weeks, with a 12AH lead-acid battery reserve.
The 30W solar panel was sourced locally by a third party and appears
to be a "string ribbon" type. Because the 30W spec was way over the
requirement, we sited the panel between rocks so that it would not be
immediately visible, thus reducing the chance of theft (which is what
had happened to our previous 20W amorphous silicon panel at a more
exposed site nearby). The panel gets no morning sun, but is fully
exposed and aimed toward to the late afternoon sun.
We had a rather dark week, in which the panel did not receive
unclouded sunlight for about 5 days, and the regulator cut the load to
the Nano. In cloudy conditions facing directly towards the sun, I
found the amperage on the panel to be only 12mA * 21V = 250mW, way
below the 140mA * 21V = 3000mW from the 10W monocrystalline panel I
had experimented with over the previous equinox.
So it appears that efficiency may vary according to panel type at less
than optimal sun exposure. I shall confirm this by measuring current
on a sunny day soon, to ensure that the new panel is indeed capable of
delivering 30W.
In the meantime, we have replaced the battery with a 60A car battery
to power through cloudy days. This is more expensive and more at risk
of theft, but we are relying on the camouflage for security. I'll also
set up an adjacent node to ping the Nano and notify by email if it
loses power. This security works for batteries as power is lost
immediately after theft, but not for panels.
A recent thread on a private South African WiFi list described the
problem of panel theft. The only proven solution was to fit the panels
with expensive satellite trackers. After a few thefts and subsequent
recoveries, the thieves left the panels alone. Hopefully camouflage
will turn out to be a less expensive but equally effective solution
for us.
David
Thanks Paul - I didn't know that.
However the complete or partial shading only happens in the morning -
for most of the afternoon the panel is completely illuminated.
Another reason for nestling it in rocks is to protect from bushfires.
David