Fwd: emend: Dictionary.com Word of the Day

[John Stoner]

any of you astrologers have any thoughts on Ophiucus? Now I wanna say
it's my sign.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dictionary.com <doc...@dictionary.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 2:00 AM
Subject: emend: Dictionary.com Word of the Day
To: John <jst...@fastmail.fm>

[snip]

________________________________

There really is a 13th zodiac sign named “Ophiuchus” that you’ve
probably never heard of.

Whether or not you believe that the position and relationship of the
sun, moon, stars, and planets has any bearing on your personality, you
probably still know what your astrological sign is. The zodiac
contains twelve constellations and is divided into twelve equal
segments. Each astrological sign represents one of the segments. The
signs are Aries,...
Read more ››

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[Monica]

I'm no astrologer though I have been quite curious about Ophiuchus and the practice of this particular type of sidereal astrology.

There are two main types of astrology, tropical and sidereal.  Tropical astrology defines its system by the seasons while sidereal astrology is defined by the physical constellations.  Hindu and Indian astrologies use sidereal astrology - still there are not many astrologers that follow the thirteen physical constellations.  When you add Ophiuchus, a bit of chaos is added to the mix - in my opinion.  Just like everything else, the stars/planets/ethereal bodies are constantly changing and move very slowly throughout time.  This wiki page about sidereal astrology gives a good chart of dates for the actual physical constellations in the sky - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_astrology - these dates change every 70.5 years.

Here's an interesting book about the sign - http://www.amazon.com/13th-Sign-Mary-Francis-Abbamonte/dp/0759680566/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289754865&sr=8-1 .

I find sidereal astrology, and the thirteen signs, a bit more appealing as we are using the physical constellations as a reference.  Both systems "work" in their own way, as it's difficult to explain the celestial world.

I will have to do more research, this is where I am at now.  I would love to hear if there is an other astrologers that practice this specific type of astrology.

Thanks for bringing it up John!

Monica

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[Ora Uzel]

It would seem to me that the purpose of having 13 astrological signs is to have a lunar-solar calendar.  13 moons...  I'm not sure if this relates to Sidereal Astrology, but the truth with astrology is that it doesn't have to have anything to do with the stars to work.  It is a system of chronologically approximated personality archetypes.  In astrology's case, the system of measurement used to chronologically divide the archetypes happens to be the stars, because few people had accurate clocks before the 15th century.

Personally I am a big fan of the idea of lunar-solar calendars, because they honor the divine feminine and masculine together.  However, I don't know enough about them to speak more on it.

Ora

[Monica]

Hmm, not quite sure about it not having to do with the stars as different celestial bodies are used to describe the different personality archetypes (ie Pluto symbolizing change and growth).  What came first - the personality archetype or the planet? Astrology, from what I understand, is basically describing how we are related to the rest of the galaxy as reflections - what happens in the sky is mirrored by what happens here (or wherever you are - and vice versa).  Astrology is used to describe that mirror.

 

I'm not convinced that you could use clock time as a base, as everyone's time is different (do accurate clocks exist??).  The stars are a concrete way of seeing the progression of time and even these are continually changing. Do you have an example of astrology that is not based on the stars?

 

I'll have to check out lunar - solar calendars, sounds interesting. Thanks Ora!

 

Monica

 

 

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[Ora Uzel]

On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Monica <monica...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not convinced that you could use clock time as a base, as everyone's time is different (do accurate clocks exist??).  The stars are a concrete way of seeing the progression of time and even these are continually changing. Do you have an example of astrology that is not based on the stars?

Considering that clocks do not require the movement of the heavens to keep them running -- at least not as long as humans are around -- it is entirely plausible to have a system of dynamic and diverse archetypes based on any arbitrary time measurement system.

The reason why the current system is 12 is most likely because it is sourced from the lunar 13 month system, but the solar calendar is more easily divided up into even numbers and 12 works wonderfully, especially for the more intellectual types who divide up those 12 into four (elements) and those four into sets of three (cardinal, fixed, mutable) and the added planets just add for a more interesting and supposedly accurate element.

But personally, I see it from a Jungian perspective of archetypes more than astronomical mirroring.  When I was born, the Cuban doctor who received me had more gravitational pull on me than Mars or Venus.

The only reason the lunar/solar calendars were put in is because that's how we measure the seasons, and a chronologically based system of archetypes has its best accuracy when it considers the changing of the seasons (dry/weat, hot/cold).  Naturally Capricorns are different in their earthiness than Virgos, because the weather in most places of the planet at those times is vastly different.  You'll notice that astrology is more popular and perhaps more accurate in places where the changing of seasons has been more historically valuable to survival, especially when valuable to great empires (Greece, Rome, Persia, India, etc).  The first empires to shun astrology didn't really come around until intensely precise and accurate calendars were invented (i.e. Gregorian calendar).

*   *   *

Then again, you could just say I'm not big on an astronomical connection to astrology, because all of my inner planets are in the twelfth house, causing me to naturally attempt to transcend astrology.  Or maybe I've watched Cosmos too many times... ;-)

Blessings,
Ora

[Spiral Syzygy]

Can anyone give me a historical example of any group of people ever
using a 13moon calendar? It's hard for me to imagine than any
sky-watching civilization would ever use a system that broken. You
cannot have 13 lunar cycles in one solar cycle. They fall out of sync
in less than two months. If you don't believe me, you can either do
the math on how many solar days are in a lunar month or you can do it
the old fashioned way and count how many days pass in a lunar cycle,
just as any ancient peoples would/could. I haven't been convinced yet
that 13moon calendars are anything more than some modern foolish idea
people keep attributing to one or another ancient civilization to make
it seem more legit or spiritually oriented. It's just hogwash. I'm
open to being educated contrary to this view, but I've had no takers.

Spiral

[Ora Uzel]

Just to clarify, I was NOT referring to any of those modern 13 moon calendars claimed to be Mayan/Aztec or whatever in origin.  Though those things are just as valid as regular astrology aside from a lack of experience (a few thousand years of experience less) in honing the archetypal interpretations.


I don't think any 13 moon "calendars" were ever precise.  You have to remember that we're talking about people with little concept of time who just kept track of whether the moon was full or not.

The real deal with time measurement didn't occur until people began to realize that the sun and moon are not conveniently timed and solstices generally occur in different moon phases from year to year.

The truth is that there are 12.368 lunar cycles per year.  That means that 13 is a plausible, but less accurate number than 12.  It's possible to arrive at 13 moons if one counts the extra third of a lunar month (roughly) as a whole extra month.

Ora

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