Re: [OmoOdua] Leye Ige, JUI & Ola Kassim: When did we stop "speaking ill" of the dead on these fora?: RE: DON'T DIMINISH CHINUA ACHEBE WITH AN ETHNIC LABEL!

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Mobolaji Aluko

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Mar 25, 2013, 9:55:19 PM3/25/13
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Felix:

How many wished Achebe "Hell"?  
Maybe one or two, from all I can tell....
But the overwhelming majority wish him "Well" 
So it is on those we must dwell

And there you have it.


Bolaji  Aluko


On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 2:41 AM, felix vescovi <fell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Prof Aluko,
I'm just wondering (with the hope of not undoing myself before a Don) what would be pretentious in people calling for a moment of "silent" for the mourning of (as you yourself put it) the “inimitable Prof. Chinua Achebe”. On the death of a celebrity as Chinua Achebe -a Nigerian who told intriguing stories to the world from his ethnic Ibo root, I expected the Good, the Bad and the Ugly to be written about him but what I did not expect was to hear educated minds, majority established in developed societies to wish him hell just a day or two after his death. You may have a good reason(s) for taking the same position as Mr Ojutalayo, I myself could enjoy and learn from the good and the bad stories that are being written about Achebe, the master story teller but certainly not during his mourning period.
Regards,
...felix

From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com
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Sent: Tuesday, 26 March 2013, 0:30
Subject: [NaijaPolitics] Re: [OmoOdua] Leye Ige, JUI & Ola Kassim: When did we stop "speaking ill" of the dead on these fora?: RE: DON'T DIMINISH CHINUA ACHEBE WITH AN ETHNIC LABEL!
 


Dear All:

Ayo Ojutalayo's position below pretty much sums up my position on the present discussions, and we should cut out the pretence:  with the inimitable Prof. Chinua Achebe now gone to join our forefathers and his Maker - and that time being so close to the publication of his controversial farewell book "There Was Another Country" - it would be UNREASONABLE to expect that the Good, the Bad and the Ugly will not be written about him, with the Good assuredly eventually overwhelming the Bad and the Ugly for this Master Story-Teller of Five Phases of a Changing Life - (1) His pre-Ibadan/Lagos days;  (2) his Ibadan/Lagos Days; (3) His War Years; (4) His Post-War/Physically-Mobile Years, and (5) his last Less Mobile/Exilic Years!

May his soul live in perpetual/eternal rest.  [Amen.]  I am thrilled that I met him - three times - and chaired one of his Brown University Symposium sessions.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Leye,Both JUI and Ola Kassim are pretending as if they don't know what the controversy is about. If Achebe died before his There was a country was published, it would have been a different story. Achebe having been a literary giant is not the issue, and he cannot be diminished when it comes to that. But he can be diminished for what he wrote in There was a country. He can be diminished for his role during the civil war, and it is true that his "relationship with Nigeria" was never the same after the civil war. And since he who lives in glass house should not throw stone, Achebe threw stones with his last book. No wonder his role during the civil war, his (Nigerian) patriotism, and his usefulness to his village have been issues since the book was published. And since when did we stop "speaking ill" of the dead on these fora? Or, when did people start condemning those who "speak ill" of the dead on these fora? I beg, JUI and Ola Kassim should let us enjoy the good and the bad stories that are being written about Achebe, the master story teller!
Ayo Ojutalayo

 

From: Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com>
To: talk...@yahoogroups.com; "'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com'" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "'NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>; "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; "'NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; omo oodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Yorubanation <yoruba...@yahoogroups.com>; "yorub...@yahoogroups.com" <yorub...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "'YanA...@yahoogroups.com'" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; "'Raay...@yahoogroups.com'" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; "'edo-nat...@yahoogroups.com'" <edo-nat...@yahoogroups.com>; "'NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; "'afe...@yahoogroups.com'" <afe...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:50 PM
Subject: ||NaijaObserver|| Re: [talkhard] RE: DON'T DIMINISH CHINUA ACHEBE WITH AN ETHNIC LABEL!
 
JUI,
Shakespeare DID NOT use his literary skills to LIE about other Nationalities. Any writer can speak to and be appreciated by the global world as long as he/she addresses issues of interest to that world----- it becomes another issue entirely when such writer's talents are used to LIE about others--which was what Achebe did. Or are you saying he did not lie?
Leye Ige
--- On Mon, 3/25/13, Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jb...@cdc.gov> wrote:

From: Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jb...@cdc.gov>
Subject: [talkhard] RE: DON'T DIMINISH CHINUA ACHEBE WITH AN ETHNIC LABEL!
To: "'talk...@yahoogroups.com'" <talk...@yahoogroups.com>, "'NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com'" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>, "'NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>, "'niger...@yahoogroups.com'" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>, "'NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "'YanA...@yahoogroups.com'" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>, "'Raay...@yahoogroups.com'" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>, "'edo-nat...@yahoogroups.com'" <edo-nat...@yahoogroups.com>, "'NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com'" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>, "'afe...@yahoogroups.com'" <afe...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 1:41 AM

 
Leye,
You should appreciate Dr Kassim’s point and outlook on this issue. For example, a significant proportion of Shakespeare’s popular works, especially the plays were his European kingdoms and empires and love stories……….Julius Caesar, Macbeth, Merchant of /Venice, King Richards etc!!! However, the plays speak to humanity, not necessarily a propaganda about the culture of his European roots; and thus, Shakespeare is appreciated around the world for the message of his literary work for humanity, not necessarily for their European settings!
The same is true for Achebe and that is why his work appreciated worldwide, not necessarily Nidiigbo versus the rest of Nigerians you interpret in the work. You should broaden your mind in your review of Achebe and the global impact of his works, even as we all realize that a prophet is no worthy in his home. Take care. JUI
 
 
 
Dr Ola Kassim,
Funerals and wak keeping ceremonies are occasions to celebrate and reflect on the lives of the departed.
Reflection on the "lives of the departed" MUST be truthful. If the fact that his books were translated into other languages made him a "global" person, does the fact that Ngugi wa Thiongo writes in Kikuyu make him LESS global? So, you can see that what defines "global" goes beyond mere translation of a piece or pieces of writing, but in recognition of the "other". Ngugi was DELIBERATE in his choice of Kikuyu because he wanted the global community to engage his language AS IT IS, just as writers in Danish or German languages are--and that does NOT make him a "tribalist". And to the best of my knowledge, Ngugi had not and did not use his literary talents to rubbish the "other" unlike Achebe.
This is an inappropriate time to bring up any any controversies about what Prof. Chinua Achebe might have written or done in his lifetime!
Any time is APPROPRIATE, in the sense that his life and works are reflected in current situations. And this is not about "controversies" for whatever is written about Achebe are NOT  now being made up--such that there is nothing that will be written NOW that could not have been written BEFORE he died. So, this is not about any controversy.
May His Soul rest In Perfect Peace with our Lord Jesus Christ.
Only the MERCY of God, according to His Great Goodness can determine who will enter HIS rest. FOR, it is written that the gates of Heaven are CLOSED to "whoever loves and practices a lie". And Achebe loved and practiced LIES over a long period of time. Leye Ige  --- On Sun, 3/24/13, OlaKa...@aol.com <OlaKa...@aol.com> wrote:
 
Leye, JUI et al:

If the educational authorities, the  teachers and the students in South Korea could find enough relevance in Chinua Achebe's "Things Fall Apart" to have made the Korean translation
of the book a compulsory text in their educational system (as has been done in several other
 countries around the world)  it becomes extremely difficult to rationalize his work
as being basically concerned with a reflection and glorification of ONLY his Igbo heritage,

When Korean children read Things Fall apart they find the relevance to their lives in the hardship
their parents and grandparents suffered during Chinese and Japanese colonizations of their lands
the same way Australian Aborigines and Native Indians in rge USA and might also see a a refelction of some aspects of their collective history.

The Holy Bible is mostly an account of ancient Jewish civilization and religion. The religion it promotes
 -Christianity is now a global phenomenon. The same is true of the Holy Koran and Islam--  which also originated from the Middle East--specifically Saudi Arabia but which has also spread across the world.

Even though Things Fall apart is not in the same category as the aforementioned Holy Books just like  Chinua Achebe is not  comparable to either Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohamed) the two Holy Books and "Things fall Apart"  they all share the attribute of the transnational influence of  cultures that
begin in one corner of the world but ends up having relevance across the world.

"Things Fall Apart" resonates broadly across the world because it documents from an Igbo perspective
the influence of foreign cultural norms and religious practices brought in by colonialists on existing
native cultural and religious values.

"Man of the People", another novel by Chinua Achebe reflects on the overall Nigerian political landscape and not necessarily only his Igbo heritage

Likewise D.O.Fagunwa's Ogboju Ode Ni Igbo Irunmale (and Prof. Wole Soyinka's translation of the same book) also resonates far beyond its location in Yorubaland.

It is also difficult to argue that Chinua Achebe would have relied solely on the wisdom derived ONLY from his Igbo heritage when he wrote T"hings Fall Apart" and his other books. Chinua Achebe studuied English Lierature at the Unibersity College, Ibadan He also lived and worked for several years in Lagos. No huma being is shaled bonly by
the cultural norms of his or her ancestral heritage--no matter what the ethnic chauvinists might want us to believe.

Regardless of our agreement or disagreement about the late Prof Chinua Achebe politics, we cannot deny that his influence extends beyond Nigeria and West Africa to the rest of the world.

To the rest of the world Chinua Achebe's works and life were a Nigerian success story--not just an Igbo one.
Within the Nigerian landscape, Chinua Achebe would be described first and foremost as an Igbo man
from Southeast Nigeria. In igboland,  the people of Ogidi would rightfully lay the first claim on his kinship while other Igbo stay far behind in the line of kinship.

Funerals and wak keeping ceremonies are occasions to celebrate and reflect on the lives of the departed.
This is an inappropriate time to bring up any any controversies about what Prof. Chinua Achebe might have written or done in his lifetime!

May His Soul rest In Perfect Peace with our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Bye,

Ola
 
 
 
---- Original Message ----
From: Joe Attueyi <topc...@yahoo.com>
To: talkhard <talk...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: NIgerianWorldForum <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; YanArewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; Raayiriga <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; talkhard <talk...@yahoogroups.com>; edo-nationality <edo-nat...@yahoogroups.com>; afenmai <afe...@yahoogroups.com>; NigerianID <Niger...@yahoogroups.com>; naijapolitics <naijap...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaObserver <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>; omo oodua <omo...@yahoogroups.com>; Yorubanation <yoruba...@yahoogroups.com>; yorubaworld <yorub...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 24, 2013 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [talkhard] Re: [NIgerianWorldForum] DON'T DIMINISH CHINUA ACHEBE WITH AN ETHNIC LABEL!
 
So says a phantom !
 
Hehehehe!
 
Joe

Sent from my Iphone
  

On Mar 24, 2013, at 10:00 PM, Leye Ige <ige....@yahoo.com> wrote:
 
Professor Chinua Albert Achebe’s humanity meets this contemporary label, identification and recognition; and so, while the appropriate identity of Achebe is his global citizenship, the least label that should be assigned to him is his Nationality, NIGERIA! Achebe’s ethnicity in Nigeria [whether Igbirra, Igalla, Tiv, Kanuri, Ndiigbo, Edo, Efik, Hausa, Fulani, Yoruba or Ijaw] is inconsequential in his global deeds, impact and citizenship at this time!---- JUI

"his global citizenship" is based on his projection of Igbo National values, especially through his " Things fall apart". And of course, because he lived in Nigeria, he had to write about Nigeria, where his focus was also on the projection of his Igbo national values couched in "global" terms. His last writing was also a projection of his Igbo Nationality. So, it is false to claim his "ethnicity is inconsequential"---it was the foundation of his existential praxis; while his LIES about the "other"  further exposes the fallacy of his "globalism". That was why I wrote in December 2012 that his "There was a country" was written to rally the troops in the expectation of his curtain falling soon.
Besides, while the issue is NOT about his literary skills(if any), all those encomiums from Mandela, Wole Soyinka et al DID NOT vitiate the LIES he told in the process as these great persons will attest, if necessary.
Leye Ige --- On Sun, 3/24/13, Igietseme, Joseph (CDC/OID/NCEZID) <jigie...@cdc.gov> wrote:
 
In pursuit of the One Human Family ideal of the Global Village, racial and ethnic groups are intermediary socio-cultural arrangements that allow humans to commune, plan and work toward greater aspirations with collective and synergistic visions and effort that accelerate human evolution to the ultimate. The attempt to stagnate human aspirations and identity on racial and ethnic identities is fruitless and counter-productive to human progress in the 21st Century AD!
In fact, at this time of human history, human deeds are seen, recognized and appreciated in the context of their national, international and global sphere, influence and impact. Professor Chinua Albert Achebe’s humanity meets this contemporary label, identification and recognition; and so, while the appropriate identity of Achebe is his global citizenship, the least label that should be assigned to him is his Nationality, NIGERIA! Achebe’s ethnicity in Nigeria [whether Igbirra, Igalla, Tiv, Kanuri, Ndiigbo, Edo, Efik, Hausa, Fulani, Yoruba or Ijaw] is inconsequential in his global deeds, impact and citizenship at this time!
After all, you can’t describe the children of Queen Elizabeth of England with the Greek ethnic background of her husband, Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh; we stop at the Greek Nationality background. Likewise, the least you can decently ascribe to US President Obama is the Nationality of his Kenyan father. Stooping to his Luo ethnic group is a diminution and a sacrilege! Nigerians should learn and be used to internationally acceptable norms, standards and habits to be fit to march alongside the world citizens into the imminent Global Village!!! Take care. JUI  
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Mobolaji Aluko

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Mar 25, 2013, 8:30:48 PM3/25/13
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Dear All:

Ayo Ojutalayo's position below pretty much sums up my position on the present discussions, and we should cut out the pretence:  with the inimitable Prof. Chinua Achebe now gone to join our forefathers and his Maker - and that time being so close to the publication of his controversial farewell book "There Was Another Country" - it would be UNREASONABLE to expect that the Good, the Bad and the Ugly will not be written about him, with the Good assuredly eventually overwhelming the Bad and the Ugly for this Master Story-Teller of Five Phases of a Changing Life - (1) His pre-Ibadan/Lagos days;  (2) his Ibadan/Lagos Days; (3) His War Years; (4) His Post-War/Physically-Mobile Years, and (5) his last Less Mobile/Exilic Years!

May his soul live in perpetual/eternal rest.  [Amen.]  I am thrilled that I met him - three times - and chaired one of his Brown University Symposium sessions.

And there you have it.


Bolaji Aluko
On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Ayo Ojutalayo <ayooju...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Leye,

Both JUI and Ola Kassim are pretending as if they don't know what the controversy is about. If Achebe died before his There was a country was published, it would have been a different story. Achebe having been a literary giant is not the issue, and he cannot be diminished when it comes to that. But he can be diminished for what he wrote in There was a country. He can be diminished for his role during the civil war, and it is true that his "relationship with Nigeria" was never the same after the civil war. And since he who lives in glass house should not throw stone, Achebe threw stones with his last book. No wonder his role during the civil war, his (Nigerian) patriotism, and his usefulness to his village have been issues since the book was published. And since when did we stop "speaking ill" of the dead on these fora? Or, when did people start condemning those who "speak ill" of the dead on these fora? I beg, JUI and Ola Kassim should let us enjoy the good and the bad stories that are being written about Achebe, the master story teller!

Ayo Ojutalayo


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Segun Ogungbemi

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Mar 26, 2013, 12:55:22 PM3/26/13
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This is not the time to open up controversies and criticisms of the late African literary giant, Prof. Achebe. 
The universe is the abode of humans whether alive or dead. The grave where the remains of Achebe will be buried will eternally becomes his permanent abode. 
We wish him eternal rest in his final environment. 
Segun Ogungbemi. 

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