Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
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Mobolaji Aluko
Mar 26, 2013, 6:02:31 AM3/26/13
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Dear All:
This is the reverse of the Yoruba adage where you are all but mentioned but for name, but out of cowardice, you say "No it is not I" for lack of a will to fight the abuser, in this case Adeniyi, who should name the abused and let the devil be ashamed.
One wonders why...and I am surprised, not at his commentary - to which he has a right - but at his cowardice as well as timing.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
Shaking his head
And Scratching it....
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Adebayo Adejuwon <adead...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gbosaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!Thank God for you a jare my brother.That Chief Tola Adeniyi is a brown envelope journalist is well known by all and sundry. That he was an apologist to OGD is no news. That he is still doing boy boy to OGD at his old age is not something people are not unaware of. This same Tola Adeniyi who used the his Till Death Do us part column in the Nigerian Tribune to deceive Nigerians only to become errand boy for IBB in the movement to Abuja scandal, and later Abacha is not lost on Nigerians.One would have thought that people like Chief Tola Adeniyi aka Deto Deni would have gained some wisdom now that he is above seventy years.
From: Iyke Ajitona <ajito...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:10:16 AM
Subject: [NIgerianWorldForum] Re: [OmoOdua] TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Alagba,Oh, yes, atanpako in ju'we ookan; we sure know the disguised object of Adeniyi's vitriol, bushy hair, and all. But Adeniyi represents to me the character in one Hausa adage that goes: "He who calls his wife a prostitute must not be surprised when his children are called bastards." Adeniyi, himself a "brown envelope" journalist characteristic of his current employer, has by this stupid comments done more damage to Achebe's memory, grouping him with the likes of Rotimi, Okigbo, Osofisan and excluding the most prominent of these literary giants; what does that say of his logic? Should he, a coward, be brave enough, he should mention the suspected name and face the invocation of thunderous and fiery response. Enough on the lousy "egunje" journalist, he should henceforth be disregarded. The one with the "bushy hair" will remain our icon and hero.Iyke AjitonaSent from my IPadWho exactly is Tola Adeniyi attacking in the name of writing a tribute? What would have passed for a good tribute in the memory of Late Prof.Chinua Achebe, in my opionon sounds like a direct attack on somebody Tola Adeniyi cannot confront directly.Read and form your opinion.
Chinua Achebe: The uncrowned nobel laureate
By TOLA ADENIYI
The motto of Obafemi Awolowo University is ‘For Learning and Culture’. No one academic in Nigeria reflects and personifies that maxim more than Professor Chinua Achebe. The grandfather of modern English literature in Africa was both a colossus in learning, as he was a thoroughbred and highly cultivated individual in manners and character. Chinua Achebe’s transition last week took the world by storm and he was genuinely mourned by all those who appreciated the worth, both of his writings and his character. His passing on into eternity was a personal loss to this writer. It was in July 1965 that Uncle Segun Olusola took me to Chinua Achebe, somewhere on Broad Street, Lagos, to seek his permission for me to adapt his most celebrated classic, Things Fall Apart, published in 1958 into a play.
I had seen the dramatic elements in the novel and decided to make a drama out of it. Achebe asked me a few questions and satisfied with my answers, approved my proposal to adapt the novel for both stage and television. Ambali Sanni’s Muslim College, Ijebu Ode, provided the funds while the students made up the cast. The production was taken round the whole Western region, including Lagos (minus the colony) and was given loud applause by the likes of Derek Bullock and Dapo Adelugba. That was the beginning of the romance with this giant of letters, who, seven years later, hosted me and my wife on our honeymoon to his official residence at the University of Nigeria, Nsukka, in 1972. Achebe gave pride to African writing and to Africans. For the first time, he provided a lens into Africa and presented Africa from the African perspective.
His writings were African-based but with monumental universal appeal. Hence his maiden novel Things Fall Apart got translated into well over 50 languages and sold over 12 million copies. Apart from being the greatest writer of prose to emerge from African continent, Achebe wrote for the masses. Achebe spoke so that he could be understood. The beauty of his writings was that he was a most excellent communicator, believing that the over all purpose of any work of art is communication. Your work, be it dance, song, speech, drama, gesture, painting must convey a message and that message must be comprehended by your listener, your viewer or your audience. Anything short of that is intellectual garbage. In fact, Achebe could easily pass for a playwright of immense stature.
There is so much drama in all of his novels. And this was the reason I started work on The Theatre in Achebe’s novels. All the characters in his writings are alive and touchable. The trees, the mountains, the rivers and valleys in his novels speak. Chinua Achebe gave dignity and personality to art. For him, you do not need to grow a bush on your head or grow rodents in your hair to impress on the world that you are an artist or a writer. Achebe was a man of character. He taught for many years at Nsukka and no one ever heard that he drove his female students nuts, nor was he ever accused of befriending or marrying his students. Achebe taught us what a great mind should be. Achebe never went round state governors with beggar’s bowl, soliciting for money or gratification nor was he ever accused of sleeping with his friends’ widows.
Twice Achebe was offered national honours. Twice he rejected them, arguing that he was not one that would pose as holy in the day time and be in cosy alliance in the night with people he accuses in the day time. The millions, who have continued to mourn Achebe since his transition, do so in deep sorrow and in sincerity, having discovered in the literary colossus a most genuine and sincere human being. Achebe identified with his Igbo nation. He shared the pains and sufferings of his people. And never for once did he treat them with condescension that he was in any way superior to his clan. Achebe was mature. He showed maturity in all his dealings. He did not exhibit childishness. He was never petty or small-minded. All those who had anything to do with him ended up respecting him because he commanded respect.
Even when he was in his thirties, he displayed unusual maturity and mastery of human relations. As far as Achebe was concerned, a writer or any artist for that matter was first and foremost a human person with deep human feelings and ethos. Chinua Achebe eminently qualified for a Nobel Prize before that hitherto prestigious prize got politicised and became not a reward for distinction but a reward for those, who had mastered the art and science of boardroom politics or global arm-twisting. Although Achebe mentioned lizard in almost all his works, the honourable man of letters never learnt the art of lizarding. Prose writer Chinua Achebe shared the distinction of being the best in their arts with John Pepper Clark and Christopher Okigbo, who, up till today, are the best writers of poetry, with Professor Ola Rotimi, the best in playwriting and play production, with Ene Henshaw, Wale Ogunyemi and Professor Femi Osofisan as playwrights with greatest relevance and profundity.
This explains why, to me, Achebe remains the uncrowned Nobel Prize winner with most authentic claim to that crown. The Federal Government of Nigeria must immediately commence the process of creating a national monument to immortalise this rare genius of both learning and character. Chinua Achebe was not just a writer; he was a distinguished writer with the best and noblest of human virtues. A non hypocrite. A non bully. Achebe was both a great ambassador of Africa and a true and respectable specimen of the finest humanity. •Do not submit your happiness to the whims and caprices of others…
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elombah daniel
Mar 26, 2013, 6:33:48 AM3/26/13
to Mobolaji Aluko, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
My brothers,
Chief Tola Adeniyi saw the truth, spoke the truth and wrote absolutely nothing but the truth...
Yes, Wole Soyinka, we all love him, but somehow in our quiet moments, deep in our hearts, we just look at the man, his works, his attitude, his grandstanding, his writings and quietly wonder......
I read Chinua Achebe as a primary school pupil.....but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.
As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.
As for Soyinka's politics - wining and dining with all our former corrupt
president's at night and pretending in the daytime to side with the masses, we also saw them, but still feel that his good sides outweigh his bad sides....after-all this is Nigeria, our Nigeria.....and yes we still respect Soyinka as Nigeria's worthy ambassador.....
Soyinka is great, no doubt, but Achebe is a colossus!.....and if you Bolaji Aluko wrote, just last night that there is nothing wrong for some disgusting and animalistic low-lifes on this forum to
lie and speak ill of the distinguished and honourable Achebe in death, (You last night urged "dear all" to speak the good the bad the ugly about Achebe) it is rampaging hypocrisy for you for you to disparage Chief Tola Adeniyi for saying the truth as he saw them.
Daniel Elombah
+44-7435469430
Every Nigerian that has something important to say, says it on www.elombah.com
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:02 AM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
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==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
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elombah daniel
Mar 26, 2013, 6:33:33 AM3/26/13
to Mobolaji Aluko, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
My brothers,
Chief Tola Adeniyi saw the truth, spoke the truth and wrote absolutely nothing but the truth...
Yes, Wole Soyinka, we all love him, but somehow in our quiet moments, deep in our hearts, we just look at the man, his works, his attitude, his grandstanding, his writings and quietly wonder......
I read Chinua Achebe as a primary school pupil.....but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.
As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.
As for Soyinka's politics - wining and dining with all our former corrupt
president's at night and pretending in the daytime to side with the masses, we also saw them, but still feel that his good sides outweigh his bad sides....after-all this is Nigeria, our Nigeria.....and yes we still respect Soyinka as Nigeria's worthy ambassador.....
Soyinka is great, no doubt, but Achebe is a colossus!.....and if you Bolaji Aluko wrote, just last night that there is nothing wrong for some disgusting and animalistic low-lifes on this forum to
lie and speak ill of the distinguished and honourable Achebe in death, (You last night urged "dear all" to speak the good the bad the ugly about Achebe) it is rampaging hypocrisy for you for you to disparage Chief Tola Adeniyi for saying the truth as he saw them.
Daniel Elombah
+44-7435469430
Every Nigerian that has something important to say, says it on www.elombah.com
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
To: Omo...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:02 AM
Subject: NigerianID | Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
UPCOMING EVENT| TORONTO 2013 NIGERIA-CANADA INVESTMENT & TRADE FORUM - May 2&3.
==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
.
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Michael Afolayan
Mar 26, 2013, 8:01:58 AM3/26/13
to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, Yan Arewa
Based on this write-up, Tola Adeniyi is at the very best, a poor analyst and at the very worst, a restless gossip. My uncle has always warned that a good idea badly presented could be easily dismissed as a bad one altogether. What could have been a great tribute to a revered icon now reads like an emission of nonsense. Apparently, Adeniyi failed to recognize that Achebe and Soyinka, two
fairly good and close friends, wrote from two different genres, for two different
audiences and, logically, in two different styles. He took personal vendetta to a new low! This is a typical idle village women's syndrome, which only reminds one of Lanrewaju Adepoju's poem that he rightly titled, "Ede Aiyede I &II." In it, the poet made it clear that only the Yoruba are the living army that would shoot at its own wounded soldiers. Listen to him here, if you speak Yoruba: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqNa3JcNklc and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fISc4GBpNYg. . . O ma se o!
Michael O. Afolayan
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 5:02 AM
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
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elombah daniel
Mar 26, 2013, 7:05:52 AM3/26/13
to topcrest topcrest, Mobolaji Aluko, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa, N Igerian World Forum@yahoogroups.com, Naija Observer@yahoogroups.com
Oga Joe
"Achebe wrote for the masses. Achebe spoke so that he could be understood. The beauty of his writings was that he was a most excellent communicator, believing that the over all purpose of any work of art is communication. Your work, be it dance, song, speech, drama, gesture, painting must convey a message and that message must be
comprehended by your listener, your viewer or your audience. Anything short of that is intellectual garbage" - TOLA ADENIYI
...Of course not, I am not blaming Oga Soyinka, but my point became relevant in the context of was written above by Tola Adeniyi, and for which Oga Bolaji wanted to crucify the man.
Daniel Elombah
+44-7435469430
Every Nigerian that has something important to say, says it on www.elombah.com
From: topcrest topcrest <topc...@yahoo.com>
To: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>; Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; "Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>; "N Igerian World Fo...@yahoogroups.com" <NIgerianW...@yahoogroups.com>; "Naija Obse...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaO...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
.but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.
As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.
Dan,
Surely that is not Soyinka's fault is it? Accessibility is a function of the reader not the writer IMHO. Alexander solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago was incomprehensible to me when Father O'Conell introduced it to us as form 2
students. It remains a classic.
- Part I The Prison Industry, Ch. 1 "Arrest" (p13, The Gulag Archipelago, Collins 1974)
- Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself.
Joe
From: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>
To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; "Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com"
<niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Subject: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
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UPCOMING EVENT| TORONTO 2013 NIGERIA-CANADA INVESTMENT & TRADE FORUM - May 2&3.
==============================
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Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
.
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Michael Afolayan
Mar 26, 2013, 11:20:01 AM3/26/13
to OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU, Africa-USA Internet Network
Toyin - You never cease to baffle my intellectual curiosity. Sometimes you would make some of the most profound intellectual contributions and at other times bring in scary and questionable submissions. You have projected Cambridge-styled scholarly provocations and then turn around to call fellow discussants "bastards" and engulf them with other street names. This time around you mixed a serious scholarly discourse with roadside gossip, talking of Soyinka's unsubstantiated private life as if you were privy to it. You then threw around names of legendary writers and reverted into telling your readers about the greatness of Soyinka's works and Chinua Achebe's near-mediocrity, all in one breath. Please be aware that it is the responsibility of the critic to be deep, objective, descriptive, and fair but I am not sure where to
place your position at all. It's not a good thing when someone of my age does not know where to place someone, especially a critic's perspective. I know Dr. Ojo's position; I know "Vicious Animal"'s style, and can place many people on these fora along certain paradigms, but I am still trying to figure you out. Forgive if I am reading you wrong; it might be that your level of sophistication transcends my rudimentary analytical skills, but I think you can use a
From: OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <tva...@gmail.com>
To: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
little bit of consistency. It would make you a whole lot more productive. Thanks for listening! Michael
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To: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>
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Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Why We Should Weigh Achebe and Soyinka With Each Other
I think it is helpful to weigh Achebe and Soyinka with each other.
They both represent types of greatness and weighing them in relation to each other can help us better understand types of human achievement.
The Value of the Tola Adeniyi Essay and Reactions to it in Comparing Soyinka and Achebe
The Tola Adenity essay and the reactions to it help us in this.
These reactions rightly point out that he evokes Soyinka in negative terms without mentioning him, an absence all the more telling for projecting those qualities in lifestyle and art that Soyinka is associated with.
His essay achieves greater potency by its style of evocation without mentioning. It belongs in the canon of Soyinka and Achebe criticism.
I will never forget "For [ Achebe] , you do not need to grow a bush on your head or grow rodents in your hair to impress on the world that you are an artist or a writer", vividly evoking the Soyinkaesque cultivation of a white crown of hair and of chin, itself suggesting Soyinka's poem 'to My First White Hairs' which Chinwezu lambasted as obscurantist pretension in his famous critique of the Soyinka style of writing in African literature.
Adeniyi also does well to evoke, by indirection , Soyinka's quietly notorious sexual escapades, both actual and speculative, contrasting that with Achebe's prosaic personal erotic life.
My only problem with his essay is that he does not compare and contrast Soyinka and Achebe's lifelong styles of engagement with the Nigerian question.
Even though Adeniyi is all pro-Achebe and anti-Soyinka, and his trying to describe the greatest African writing without mentioning Soyinka is almost laughable, he helps to break the spell of silence about Soyinka's private life, a subject that needs to be discussed to help contextualize, place in perspective the persona and life of the great man, a greatness highlighted by his flaws,
Public and Private Achievement of Soyinka and Achebe
Achebe is a great writer but he is not in Soyinka's class in terms of both quality and volume.
Soyinka is a much more achieved public figure as writer, scholar and public intellectual than Achebe.
Achebe, on the other hand, is a much more successful family man.
Public Life
Achebe was not significantly engaged in participation in public social affairs beyond the Nigerian Civil War and his embassy with Soyinka and Clark to plead for an end to the cycle of bloodletting represented by executing coup plotters in the Vatsa case.
Soyinka, on the other hand, has played a central and controversial roles in Nigerian politics before and during the civil war and after and has paid a price for it, the most striking being his almost two year imprisonment during the war.
He was controversially involved in Babangida's govt, a move I see as flawed in legitimizing an illegal govt and as evoking the shortsightedness which Nigerians have suffered in relation to military govts but also as demonstrating the reinterpretation of his positions by a person who wants to respond to issues from a creative rather than stagnant position.
After that, Soyinka has been consistent as an insightful and courageous a critic of various govts as well as taking active part in various pro-democracy movements, the highlight of that being during the deadly days of the Abacha era that led him to flee the country under thereat of assassination, as he states.
Achebe, on the other hand, has chosen to play his role in Nigeria from a distance, by making comments from the US.That gave him some gravitas but his closing intervention that suggested an Igbo centered vision at the expense of Nigeria diluted that gravitas for many.
Soyinka is a much more achieved public figure as writer, scholar and public intellectual than Achebe.
Private, Family Life
Achebe, on the other hand, is a much more successful family man. His wife of many years is easily known. His two sons are also easily known, one having studied medicine at Cambridge and his wife publishing a book on the concept of children born and dying recurrently in repeated life cycles in Igbo culture, the equivalent of abiku in Yoruba culture.
Soyinka, on the other hand is known for a marital life that is less than enviable. His first wife, some decades ago, gave a bitter and poignant interview to a Nigerian gossip magazine, detailing accounts of Soyinka's extra-marital betrayals even with his own students of his daughter's ages. I did not see any response from Soyinka or any one else to that painfully graphic interview.
After his Nobel prize he married a much younger woman and none of his marriages has ever played a public role in his life. That is his character. It is difficult to point to any of his children because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould.
Literary and Scholarly Achievement
Appreciating Soyinka's works does not often proceed in the same way as that of Achebe.
For those who want immediate understanding when reading, they may see the Soyinka of the plays The Jero Plays; The Swamp Dwellers and The Strong Breed; the autobiographies A Voyage Around Essay; Ibadan: The Penkelemese Years and Ake : The Years of Childhood and some of his public speeches and a poem he composed for a company calender some years ago.
Those who want a bridge between the easier and yet powerful and the conceptually dense and ideationally stratospheric Soyinka can read his essay and poem The Credo of Being and Nothingness and his play Death and the King's Horseman. These works are readily accessible and embody an aspect of the ideational and stylistic unforgettableness of the master.
Those who want to penetrate into the arcana of the uncompromising Soyinka who may be compared with the greatest writing in human history, the Soyinka who breathes the same air as those works in which humans have shaped their most profound understanding of existence, from the ancient Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day, also known as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, to the Hindu Upanishads to the Bible, to the Jewish Zohar, to the Koran and Islamic mystical masterpieces of Ibn Arabi and Jalal ud din Rumi, down to the most modern masters in all cultures, from the ancient European masters Homer and Aeschylus, to the medieval achievement of Dante, to the Russian masters Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy, to the more recent achievements of T.S. Eliot and Italo Calvino, to the vast scope of the various genres of literature from the Middle East, to South and North America, from Nahguib Mahfouz to Jorge Luis Borges, could read Soyinka's Myth, Literature and the African World, The Man Died, and A Shuttle in the Crypt, perhaps his three greatest works, covering essay, autobiography and poetry and move on to his various other writings in drama, poetry, prose and the novel.
I am not arguing that Soyinka is equal to all these writers. He does not have the sheer celestial bulk and scope of an Ibn Arabi, a Jalal ud din Rumi or a Dante. The Bible, the Koran, the Upanishads and the Zohar are in a different class altogether from all other literature, except the Hindu Mahabharata which is more a library than single book.
I see Soyinka as breathing the air the greatest writers breathe more often than Achebe. Having read almost all the works by both writers, I see Achebe as striking his most powerful notes principally in two works- Arrow of God and "The Madman" and to a lesser but very significant degree in some of his essays, such as "Language and the Destiny of Man", "The Igbo World and its Art" and "Chi in Igbo Cosmology" and his Okigbo essay "Dont Let Him Die".
Soyinka, on the other hand, is able to strike his most powerful notes again and again, with a scope and frequency that goes far beyond Achebe's. He also demonstrates a much greater scope of writing in terms of the number of genres he has been active in and even the number of his works.
In every genre except prose fiction, he has a number of works amongst the world's greatest-poetry, drama, autobiography, the essay, and even his prose work, The Interpreters has a strategic place in African literature.
Achebe, opn the other hand, has a much slimmer body of greatest works that belong in the stratospheric heights of literature.
Those who want to better understand Soyinka could follow my blog Wole Soyinka Dancing. I will be posting woks that adopt a fresh approach to Soyinka, showing why he so is much enjoyable, ideationally powerful and mentally expanding, using both verbal exposition and powerful visual illustrations.
thanks
toyin
I think it is helpful to weigh Achebe and Soyinka with each other.
They both represent types of greatness and weighing them in relation to each other can help us better understand types of human achievement.
The Value of the Tola Adeniyi Essay and Reactions to it in Comparing Soyinka and Achebe
The Tola Adenity essay and the reactions to it help us in this.
These reactions rightly point out that he evokes Soyinka in negative terms without mentioning him, an absence all the more telling for projecting those qualities in lifestyle and art that Soyinka is associated with.
His essay achieves greater potency by its style of evocation without mentioning. It belongs in the canon of Soyinka and Achebe criticism.
I will never forget "For [ Achebe] , you do not need to grow a bush on your head or grow rodents in your hair to impress on the world that you are an artist or a writer", vividly evoking the Soyinkaesque cultivation of a white crown of hair and of chin, itself suggesting Soyinka's poem 'to My First White Hairs' which Chinwezu lambasted as obscurantist pretension in his famous critique of the Soyinka style of writing in African literature.
Adeniyi also does well to evoke, by indirection , Soyinka's quietly notorious sexual escapades, both actual and speculative, contrasting that with Achebe's prosaic personal erotic life.
My only problem with his essay is that he does not compare and contrast Soyinka and Achebe's lifelong styles of engagement with the Nigerian question.
Even though Adeniyi is all pro-Achebe and anti-Soyinka, and his trying to describe the greatest African writing without mentioning Soyinka is almost laughable, he helps to break the spell of silence about Soyinka's private life, a subject that needs to be discussed to help contextualize, place in perspective the persona and life of the great man, a greatness highlighted by his flaws,
Public and Private Achievement of Soyinka and Achebe
Achebe is a great writer but he is not in Soyinka's class in terms of both quality and volume.
Soyinka is a much more achieved public figure as writer, scholar and public intellectual than Achebe.
Achebe, on the other hand, is a much more successful family man.
Public Life
Achebe was not significantly engaged in participation in public social affairs beyond the Nigerian Civil War and his embassy with Soyinka and Clark to plead for an end to the cycle of bloodletting represented by executing coup plotters in the Vatsa case.
Soyinka, on the other hand, has played a central and controversial roles in Nigerian politics before and during the civil war and after and has paid a price for it, the most striking being his almost two year imprisonment during the war.
He was controversially involved in Babangida's govt, a move I see as flawed in legitimizing an illegal govt and as evoking the shortsightedness which Nigerians have suffered in relation to military govts but also as demonstrating the reinterpretation of his positions by a person who wants to respond to issues from a creative rather than stagnant position.
After that, Soyinka has been consistent as an insightful and courageous a critic of various govts as well as taking active part in various pro-democracy movements, the highlight of that being during the deadly days of the Abacha era that led him to flee the country under thereat of assassination, as he states.
Achebe, on the other hand, has chosen to play his role in Nigeria from a distance, by making comments from the US.That gave him some gravitas but his closing intervention that suggested an Igbo centered vision at the expense of Nigeria diluted that gravitas for many.
Soyinka is a much more achieved public figure as writer, scholar and public intellectual than Achebe.
Private, Family Life
Achebe, on the other hand, is a much more successful family man. His wife of many years is easily known. His two sons are also easily known, one having studied medicine at Cambridge and his wife publishing a book on the concept of children born and dying recurrently in repeated life cycles in Igbo culture, the equivalent of abiku in Yoruba culture.
Soyinka, on the other hand is known for a marital life that is less than enviable. His first wife, some decades ago, gave a bitter and poignant interview to a Nigerian gossip magazine, detailing accounts of Soyinka's extra-marital betrayals even with his own students of his daughter's ages. I did not see any response from Soyinka or any one else to that painfully graphic interview.
After his Nobel prize he married a much younger woman and none of his marriages has ever played a public role in his life. That is his character. It is difficult to point to any of his children because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould.
Literary and Scholarly Achievement
Appreciating Soyinka's works does not often proceed in the same way as that of Achebe.
For those who want immediate understanding when reading, they may see the Soyinka of the plays The Jero Plays; The Swamp Dwellers and The Strong Breed; the autobiographies A Voyage Around Essay; Ibadan: The Penkelemese Years and Ake : The Years of Childhood and some of his public speeches and a poem he composed for a company calender some years ago.
Those who want a bridge between the easier and yet powerful and the conceptually dense and ideationally stratospheric Soyinka can read his essay and poem The Credo of Being and Nothingness and his play Death and the King's Horseman. These works are readily accessible and embody an aspect of the ideational and stylistic unforgettableness of the master.
Those who want to penetrate into the arcana of the uncompromising Soyinka who may be compared with the greatest writing in human history, the Soyinka who breathes the same air as those works in which humans have shaped their most profound understanding of existence, from the ancient Egyptian Book of Coming Forth by Day, also known as the Egyptian Book of the Dead, to the Hindu Upanishads to the Bible, to the Jewish Zohar, to the Koran and Islamic mystical masterpieces of Ibn Arabi and Jalal ud din Rumi, down to the most modern masters in all cultures, from the ancient European masters Homer and Aeschylus, to the medieval achievement of Dante, to the Russian masters Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy, to the more recent achievements of T.S. Eliot and Italo Calvino, to the vast scope of the various genres of literature from the Middle East, to South and North America, from Nahguib Mahfouz to Jorge Luis Borges, could read Soyinka's Myth, Literature and the African World, The Man Died, and A Shuttle in the Crypt, perhaps his three greatest works, covering essay, autobiography and poetry and move on to his various other writings in drama, poetry, prose and the novel.
I am not arguing that Soyinka is equal to all these writers. He does not have the sheer celestial bulk and scope of an Ibn Arabi, a Jalal ud din Rumi or a Dante. The Bible, the Koran, the Upanishads and the Zohar are in a different class altogether from all other literature, except the Hindu Mahabharata which is more a library than single book.
I see Soyinka as breathing the air the greatest writers breathe more often than Achebe. Having read almost all the works by both writers, I see Achebe as striking his most powerful notes principally in two works- Arrow of God and "The Madman" and to a lesser but very significant degree in some of his essays, such as "Language and the Destiny of Man", "The Igbo World and its Art" and "Chi in Igbo Cosmology" and his Okigbo essay "Dont Let Him Die".
Soyinka, on the other hand, is able to strike his most powerful notes again and again, with a scope and frequency that goes far beyond Achebe's. He also demonstrates a much greater scope of writing in terms of the number of genres he has been active in and even the number of his works.
In every genre except prose fiction, he has a number of works amongst the world's greatest-poetry, drama, autobiography, the essay, and even his prose work, The Interpreters has a strategic place in African literature.
Achebe, opn the other hand, has a much slimmer body of greatest works that belong in the stratospheric heights of literature.
Those who want to better understand Soyinka could follow my blog Wole Soyinka Dancing. I will be posting woks that adopt a fresh approach to Soyinka, showing why he so is much enjoyable, ideationally powerful and mentally expanding, using both verbal exposition and powerful visual illustrations.
thanks
toyin
--
Compcros
Compcros
Comparative Cognitive Processes and Systems
"Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge"
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"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
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Nurudeen Saliu
Mar 26, 2013, 11:10:59 AM3/26/13
to Omo...@yahoogroups.com, Akinyemi Onigbinde, topcrest topcrest, elombah daniel, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
Tola Adeniyi’s tribute is Kongi implied. Recall, Kongi was partly, if not largely responsible for routing them from their abasha business ( messy undertakings). Some Awoist!
Dotun N. Salu
From: Omo...@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Omo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mobolaji Aluko
Sent: 26 March 2013 14:43
To: Akinyemi Onigbinde
Cc: topcrest topcrest; elombah daniel; Omo...@yahoogroups.com; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com; naijaintellects; niger...@yahoogroups.com; Ra'ayi; USAAfrica Dialogue; Yan Arewa
Subject: [OmoOdua] Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Akinyemi:
It will not be in the late departed Prof Achebe's interest if this issue were to degenerate into "Discuss (Compare and Contrast) the Literature, Life and Times of Soyinka and Achebe." It would be un-even because Soyinka is still here with us and can defend himself or still make changes as he or his Maker see fit.
The Tola Adeniyi angle is childishly jejune and ill-advised.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Akinyemi Onigbinde <akinom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Elonbo,
I hope you guys are not coming with your revisionism as history history,about,yet another Yoruba person,just because one Yoruba person who was a traitor,working hand-in-glove with a Soyinka hunter in those days when Nigeria's fate hung in the balance,only expressed his frustration,a frustration he has carried about for reasons best known to him and his discredited pedigree.Now,name one Nigeria President that Soyinka hobnobbed with in the night while pretending to be on the masses side in day time.You should also name one Nigeria head of state that has not been on the receiving end of Soyinja's vitriol.Oh,perhaps,he went to hobnob with Ojukwu as the civil war gathered storm to merit being jailed for some odd 28 months,most of which he spent in solitary conferment.Yet,he surely was a darling to Abacha,Tola Adeniyi'shero,to warrant his house in Abeokuta been petrol- bombed after having been chased into exile,like many of his compatriots in the NADECO struggle.Also,Soyinka,as a University teacher, was a night-time friend of Ladoke Akintola and Tafawa Balewa when he risked everything to invade a radio station to stop Akintola's propaganda,afternath of the rigging of election in Western region,precipitating what,today,is known as wetie.
As for his writings,if you ask me,those who should know and appreciate their quality,or otherwise have since spoken in his being awarded the Nobel Prize for literature.Thus,your being unable to access them may well be due to the obvious fact that Soyinka is a serious writer who can only enjoy the attention of serious readers.I can only hope you don't want to be a new neo-Tarzan in town,a role Chinwezu led others to play in the 80s,aftermath of Soyinka'sNobel prize for literature.In the ensuring debate the troika got a serious tearing apart by the lion himself
I think you will save Achebe a hit-back if you advice yourself to desist from a dangerous path of taking a side-kick at Wole Soyinka.Even Achebe,the departed story-teller, did not risk a direct confrontation with the master polemicist
Akinyemi Onigbinde
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2013, at 11:45, topcrest topcrest <topc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
.but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.
As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.
Dan,
Surely that is not Soyinka's fault is it? Accessibility is a function of the reader not the writer IMHO. Alexander solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago was incomprehensible to me when Father O'Conell introduced it to us as form 2 students. It remains a classic.
·
- Part I The Prison Industry, Ch. 1 "Arrest" (p13, The Gulag Archipelago, Collins 1974)
- Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself.
Joe
From: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>
To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; "Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:33 AM
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Mobolaji Aluko
Mar 26, 2013, 10:42:49 AM3/26/13
to Akinyemi Onigbinde, topcrest topcrest, elombah daniel, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
It will not be in the late departed Prof Achebe's interest if this issue were to degenerate into "Discuss (Compare and Contrast) the Literature, Life and Times of Soyinka and Achebe." It would be un-even because Soyinka is still here with us and can defend himself or still make changes as he or his Maker see fit.
The Tola Adeniyi angle is childishly jejune and ill-advised.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Akinyemi Onigbinde <akinom...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Elonbo,I hope you guys are not coming with your revisionism as history history,about,yet another Yoruba person,just because one Yoruba person who was a traitor,working hand-in-glove with a Soyinka hunter in those days when Nigeria's fate hung in the balance,only expressed his frustration,a frustration he has carried about for reasons best known to him and his discredited pedigree.Now,name one Nigeria President that Soyinka hobnobbed with in the night while pretending to be on the masses side in day time.You should also name one Nigeria head of state that has not been on the receiving end of Soyinja's vitriol.Oh,perhaps,he went to hobnob with Ojukwu as the civil war gathered storm to merit being jailed for some odd 28 months,most of which he spent in solitary conferment.Yet,he surely was a darling to Abacha,Tola Adeniyi'shero,to warrant his house in Abeokuta been petrol- bombed after having been chased into exile,like many of his compatriots in the NADECO struggle.Also,Soyinka,as a University teacher, was a night-time friend of Ladoke Akintola and Tafawa Balewa when he risked everything to invade a radio station to stop Akintola's propaganda,afternath of the rigging of election in Western region,precipitating what,today,is known as wetie.As for his writings,if you ask me,those who should know and appreciate their quality,or otherwise have since spoken in his being awarded the Nobel Prize for literature.Thus,your being unable to access them may well be due to the obvious fact that Soyinka is a serious writer who can only enjoy the attention of serious readers.I can only hope you don't want to be a new neo-Tarzan in town,a role Chinwezu led others to play in the 80s,aftermath of Soyinka'sNobel prize for literature.In the ensuring debate the troika got a serious tearing apart by the lion himselfI think you will save Achebe a hit-back if you advice yourself to desist from a dangerous path of taking a side-kick at Wole Soyinka.Even Achebe,the departed story-teller, did not risk a direct confrontation with the master polemicistAkinyemi Onigbinde
Sent from my iPad
.but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.
As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.
Dan,Surely that is not Soyinka's fault is it? Accessibility is a function of the reader not the writer IMHO. Alexander solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago was incomprehensible to me when Father O'Conell introduced it to us as form 2 students. It remains a classic.
- Part I The Prison Industry, Ch. 1 "Arrest" (p13, The Gulag Archipelago, Collins 1974)
- Every man always has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself.
Joe
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Mobolaji Aluko
Mar 26, 2013, 9:23:14 AM3/26/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, topcrest topcrest, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, Yan Arewa
Be honest with yourself for once: is that ALL that Tola Adeniyi wrote? All his bar-room slanders, silly and irrelevant snide remarks about hair and rodents, uncultured and uncouth to say the least?
And where, for goodness sakes, did I mention Soyinka? Did Tola Adeniyi MENTION Soyinka? Does he have enough intestinal fortitude to mention Soyinka? Even you, puny tiny you, have more intestinal fortitude.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
Having a belly laugh
PS: By the way, each writer IDENTIFIES his target audience, and sticks with it. No writer worth his salt allows his readers to define him; otherwise, very soon the readers will consider him or her to be pandering to them to steal their pockets rather than to express a point of view based on his innate capabilities. So Achebe identifies his readers; Soyinka identifies his readers, etcheram, ad nauseum, and the twain need not be the same. Furthermore, what a reader reads at age 6 and his understanding then is quite different from what that same reader reads 30, 40 years later when he is more educated and/or has more experience in life. For example, I read Gulliver's Travels simply as science fiction when I was in secondary school, only to learn that it was biting political satire later on....
OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
Mar 26, 2013, 9:49:53 AM3/26/13
to elombah daniel, Mobolaji Aluko, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
UPCOMING EVENT| TORONTO 2013 NIGERIA-CANADA INVESTMENT & TRADE FORUM - May 2&3.
==============================
"No part of any discussion on NigerianID may be used, quoted, or referred to, without the express permission of the individual author, or the Chief moderator All discussions on NigerianID are the express property of the author and NigerianID." Copyright 2006-2013. NigerianID. All Rights Reserved.
Nigerian Professionals and Business Network. Our mission is to promote the spirit of patriotism, networking, and cooperation among Nigerians in Diaspora.... http://www.nidoa.org
Donate your used Glasses to the "Seeing Changes the View" Nigeria Project at http://www.proudNigerians.org and help someone today. ProudNigerians.Org is an informal movement of like-minded people who wants to see incremental changes in Nigeria and who are leading by taking simple actions and paying it forward. Mobilizing the people is our primary goal.
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OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
Mar 26, 2013, 10:22:28 AM3/26/13
to elombah daniel, Mobolaji Aluko, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, USAAfrica Dialogue, Yan Arewa
Abiola Irele is back in Nigeria. . At Kwara State University.
Anunoby, Ogugua
Mar 26, 2013, 1:57:02 PM3/26/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, Yan Arewa
Tola Adeniyi makes it clear that his tribute was a personal one to Chinua Achebe- a man who was graciously kind to him as an artist and friend. He lays bare some of the many essences of Achebe’s difference and greatness not just as a very successful writer but more importantly as a true believer in the siblinghood of the human race. He gives the impression that for him, Achebe was a brainy and moral man which is indeed a lot to write about a man behind his back. His tribute reads to me more like a eulogy. Tola Adeniyi like many all over the enlightened world seems touched by Achebe’s passing.
I am struck by Tola Adeniyi’s ample praise of Achebe as a man of character and virtue. For him, character is as much a measure of a person’s greatness as is their intellectual accomplishments and esteem. For him, greatness, measured by service to others, is a lot more than impressive works of art, science, and technology. It is also about self-discipline, and respect for others especially the lowly and powerless. It is about not taking advantage of others. There may not be many who would seriously disagree with him. Tola Adeniyi’s tribute for me, is a call to deep reflection, action, and perhaps change. Tola Adeniyi deserves to be commended for his thoughtfulness, courage, and candor.
I am also struck by the vitriolic attacks on Tola Adeniyi by some who impute discontent with and grudge against an “unnamed” person in his Achebe tribute. I have some questions. Is there really such a one? Has Tola Adeniyi made any non-factual statements or written evident untruths? Has truth ceased to be justification for slander and libel? If Tola Adeniyi lied, his critics should fairly and round take him on them rather than crudely disparage him on the basis of presumptions and suppositions. I am not sure that the “unnamed” person whoever they are, would have need for any of Tola Adeniyi’s critics to defend them. They may not care. Achebe himself is reported to have said, if you do not like somebody’s book, write your own.
One other fact of Achebe’s fruitful life we may need to embrace is his rejection of the resort to verbal abuse and invectives in conversation and debate.
oa
OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
Mar 26, 2013, 1:34:09 PM3/26/13
to usaafricadialogue
It seems Afolayan's response below was sent to this group, so I respond through this group.
On Dialogical Etiquette
I would be pleased if this can be verified. It does not look true to me-
'You have [turned] around to call fellow discussants "bastards" and engulf them with other street names.'
If that claim can be substantiated, I will respond to it.
Is Afolayan perhaps one of those who is happy to see people throw unprovoked insults at Adepoju and when Adepoju attacks them in return, you complain but make sure that you say nothing about the person who initiated the offense?
Adepoju is scholarly but is also a person who gives to you what you give him. He will not insult you. But if you insult him, he could insult you in return. That is a means of self protection in the jungle of online groups.
Some people , particularly the pro-Biafra right wing brigade, have made it their business to insult Adepoju without provocation. Kingsley Nnnabuagha made it his business for much of last year to attack me anytime I made any comment on Nigerian centred groups. He severally attacked my family. All because he did not like my views on Biafra. No one defended me. So, this year, I defended myself. Kingsley has avoided me since then.
On Edo centred groups some years ago, some Bini people would recurrently degenerate into vicious insults when they became overwhelmed with my polemical perseverance. I was shocked and resigned from those groups. I returned and gave it to them in their own coin. No one tries that again.They leave me alone.
If I am not prepared to defend myself vigorously, I would not be able to speak my mind on controversial issues the way I do.
When Ikhide and Ogbunweze recently directed insults at me without provocation on this group, I read no response, no protection of me from Afolayan. On what moral platform does such a person then pontificate about justice?
I chose to sidestep the behavior of Ikhide and Ogbunweze on those occasions because I saw them as more ridiculous than serious.
When Cornelius recently responded to my polite disagreement to him with a rude animalistic reference, where was Afolayan? On a fence of non-vision?
Adeshina Afolayan and Michael Afolayan ( same or different people?) challenged my response in kind to Cornelius. 'Did you read what he wrote earlier' ? I responded. They then retreated into silence. Is that justice?
On Soyinka's and Achebe's Private Lives
On Soyinka's private life. I have followed the subject for years. The sources I have given are clear. His wife's interview is something I kept as a record.
I have also followed Achebe's private life, both of these figures to the degree I am able at a level of general interest.
Is it relevant? Yes. It is part of the totality of Soyinka and Achebe.
Our people are not familiar with the culture of total biographical assessment practiced in the West. You examine every corner of the person's life and make an assessment. That is the kind of thing I am doing.
One can even go further to examine the relationship of the artists private life to his work. Is Soyinka's greatness and versatility related to his mercurial erotic temperament? Is Achebe's more prosaic erotic persona related to his more predictable style of writing?
Such questions are not new in Western scholarship since Freud. Its just that to Nigerians, such issues are almost taboo.
The powerful book on the life of one of the greatest modern scientists, A Life of Erwin Schrodinger, takes pains to discuss his unconventional relationship where he kept both a mistress and wife in the same house, so as to give a rounded picture of the man.
Purely valoristic and purely public centred biographies are both outmoded and overly limited.
On Soyinka and Achebe in the Global Canon
I describe Achebe as great. I describe Soyinka as greater.
It is possible to present Achebe in terms of the same context of global comparison, the cumulative, incantatory invocation of art that I did with Soyinka but here, I was reacting to the way Adeniyi tried to denigrate Soyinka in such a comprehensive way.
I will try to post here my various Achebe evaluations over the years once I retrieve them from my email archives.
On Dialogical Etiquette
I would be pleased if this can be verified. It does not look true to me-
'You have [turned] around to call fellow discussants "bastards" and engulf them with other street names.'
If that claim can be substantiated, I will respond to it.
Is Afolayan perhaps one of those who is happy to see people throw unprovoked insults at Adepoju and when Adepoju attacks them in return, you complain but make sure that you say nothing about the person who initiated the offense?
Adepoju is scholarly but is also a person who gives to you what you give him. He will not insult you. But if you insult him, he could insult you in return. That is a means of self protection in the jungle of online groups.
Some people , particularly the pro-Biafra right wing brigade, have made it their business to insult Adepoju without provocation. Kingsley Nnnabuagha made it his business for much of last year to attack me anytime I made any comment on Nigerian centred groups. He severally attacked my family. All because he did not like my views on Biafra. No one defended me. So, this year, I defended myself. Kingsley has avoided me since then.
On Edo centred groups some years ago, some Bini people would recurrently degenerate into vicious insults when they became overwhelmed with my polemical perseverance. I was shocked and resigned from those groups. I returned and gave it to them in their own coin. No one tries that again.They leave me alone.
If I am not prepared to defend myself vigorously, I would not be able to speak my mind on controversial issues the way I do.
When Ikhide and Ogbunweze recently directed insults at me without provocation on this group, I read no response, no protection of me from Afolayan. On what moral platform does such a person then pontificate about justice?
I chose to sidestep the behavior of Ikhide and Ogbunweze on those occasions because I saw them as more ridiculous than serious.
When Cornelius recently responded to my polite disagreement to him with a rude animalistic reference, where was Afolayan? On a fence of non-vision?
Adeshina Afolayan and Michael Afolayan ( same or different people?) challenged my response in kind to Cornelius. 'Did you read what he wrote earlier' ? I responded. They then retreated into silence. Is that justice?
On Soyinka's private life. I have followed the subject for years. The sources I have given are clear. His wife's interview is something I kept as a record.
I have also followed Achebe's private life, both of these figures to the degree I am able at a level of general interest.
Is it relevant? Yes. It is part of the totality of Soyinka and Achebe.
Our people are not familiar with the culture of total biographical assessment practiced in the West. You examine every corner of the person's life and make an assessment. That is the kind of thing I am doing.
One can even go further to examine the relationship of the artists private life to his work. Is Soyinka's greatness and versatility related to his mercurial erotic temperament? Is Achebe's more prosaic erotic persona related to his more predictable style of writing?
Such questions are not new in Western scholarship since Freud. Its just that to Nigerians, such issues are almost taboo.
The powerful book on the life of one of the greatest modern scientists, A Life of Erwin Schrodinger, takes pains to discuss his unconventional relationship where he kept both a mistress and wife in the same house, so as to give a rounded picture of the man.
Purely valoristic and purely public centred biographies are both outmoded and overly limited.
On Soyinka and Achebe in the Global Canon
I describe Achebe as great. I describe Soyinka as greater.
It is possible to present Achebe in terms of the same context of global comparison, the cumulative, incantatory invocation of art that I did with Soyinka but here, I was reacting to the way Adeniyi tried to denigrate Soyinka in such a comprehensive way.
I will try to post here my various Achebe evaluations over the years once I retrieve them from my email archives.
basil ugochukwu
Mar 26, 2013, 8:26:58 PM3/26/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Adeniyi did not have to mention any names because the innuendos and the "hidden target" couldn't be any clearer. And this is sad. While he may claim to have delivered an excellent tribute to memorialize a great man of letters, he trivializes it at the end by a failure to let sleeping dogs lie. It's as clear as daylight that he is on a personal vendetta trajectory. He didn't have to hide under an Achebe tribute to fulfill that mission. That's not the way of scrupulous, perspicacious adults and opinion molders.
Basil
From: "Anunoby, Ogugua" <Anun...@lincolnu.edu>
To: "usaafric...@googlegroups.com" <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 1:57:02 PM
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
Mobolaji Aluko
Mar 27, 2013, 4:01:33 AM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, Yan Arewa
I now hope that you have read Dr. Ola Soyinka, Ogun State Commissioner of Health's account about his "Private Family Life" with his famous father in :
or in
You must learn to sometimes hedge your ignorance with a measure of humility. As one famous American Senator was said, it is not what you don't know that bothers, but it is what you seem to know so well that just ain't so.
And there you have it.
Bolaji Aluko
PS: Besides Olaokun, another daughter of Prof. Soyinka (Mrs. Moremi Soyinka-Onijala) has served in the federal government as Special Adviser on Migration and Humanitarian Affairs. So it is flat out false that "It is difficult to point to any of (Soyinka's) children because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould."
OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
Mar 27, 2013, 7:47:37 AM3/27/13
to YanA...@yahoogroups.com, usaafric...@googlegroups.com, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi
My brother,
What you have just posted corroborates my thesis.
You quoted my summation-
"It is difficult to point to any of (Soyinka's) children because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould."
The parenting style of the great man as described by his son demonstrates my point clearly.
Perhaps the sentence should read " information on Soyinka's children and family life is less readily available than on Achebe because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould."
Public Visibility and Association
First, Soyinka's family life does not feature significantly in his public profile.
That of Achebe does, to a degree.
Soyinka's son's interview makes that clear.
I have comes across information about Soyinka's children from time to time, but if not for the fact that someone takes the pains to point it that these individuals are Soyinka's children, such identification might not come readily. For example, Kayode Soyinka, a bureau chief of Newswatch, was with Dele Giwa on the fateful day the letter bomb was delivered to him. I was keen to know if there is any relationship between him and Wole Soyinka. I learnt there was none.
I have seen only one picture of Soyinka with his children, and it was a staged picture, not a picture taken in an everyday setting.
On the other hand, I remember a picture of Achebe's son wheeling him some years ago. I also remember an interview with Achebe's wife whose book on the Igbo version of abiku I have in my library in Nigeria. I was particularly struck by the fact that Achebe's wife had published a book.
I know of Achebe's daughter who is an academic in the US. I even have a rough idea what she looks like, like I still remember my immediate impression of Achebe's son who was wheeling him.
I have this information, not because I looked out for it, but because I stumbled on it in the general run of things.
I am suggesting the idea that one is less likely to stumble upon information on Soyinka's family life than that of Achebe.
Physical Rootedness vs Physical Mobility
Secondly, Soyinka's son describes what is Soyinka's peripatetic lifestyle for much of his adult life. That kind of life is quite challenging to the routines conducive to raising a family.
Soyinka began at UI, which he left in his second year to go to Leeds. From Leeds he was at the Royal Court Theatre in London. From there he was in Nigeria on a fellowship to study African drama. After this perhaps followed his years at the University of Ife. He later left Ife bcs he was unhappy with the educational system, and perhaps founded his own theatre troupe. He was also out of Nigeria when he was editor of Transition, if I remember well. He spent two years in prison, in unenviable conditions. Some of his most important works were either gestated or written out of Nigeria, as he describes in the accounts of those works. A good part of Myth, Literature and the African World perhaps and almost certainly Death and the King's Horseman in Cambridge, if I remember well. After his release from prison, he left for a friend's farm in France where he wrote The Man Died. He has also worked as director of the International African Institute outside Nigeria. He fled into exile from Abacha and stated that even in exile, the dictator's squad was still after him to kill him. He has taken up appointments with various universities in the West, at different times.
Compare this history to that of Achebe, before and after his accident.
Achebe began and ended his academic studies at UI. Does Achebe have the same or even near equal level of global activity after his BA? Achebe was ensconced in Biafra, not in prison, during the war. As a member of the Biafran elite, his family would have been protected and readily accessible to him. He would have traveled abroad as ambassador to Biafra but he would return home to his family. Or was the family abroad?
What did Achebe do after the war?
To the best of my knowledge, he was at Nsukka, where he founded Okike. He did not edit a journal abroad, like Soyinka. Which of his works was gestated or written abroad? Note, too that he was founding editor of the African Writers Series, a job to which presence on the continent and in Nigeria would have proved vital. Note that Soyinka never published in that series. Their styles of professional development and positioning are so different.
Parenting Style : Locational Consistency vs Dynamic Focus
Note the description by Soyinka's son of his father's efforts to forge a bond with him as the young man grew older. Soyinka, understanding his lifestyle and its implications for his role as a father, made sure that he gave his son attention in between his trips. His son also describes his father's intermittent presence during his formative years along with his tendency to withdraw into contemplation. The picture suggests that as father and son matured, the father took his time to create special moments to spend with his son in between his various trips around the world.
Domestic Centring
Now, imagine the challenges facing Soyinka, his children and their mothers.
First, he had a child whom his wife cared for, his first son.
In the midst of this delicate situation, he spent two years in prison. After that, he is off to France to write about the prison experience.
Further down the line, his wife is deeply unhappy and gives an interview to a Nigerian gossip mag about a lifestyle of martial infidelity she ascribes to him.
Can you imagine the potential of these developments for a man who is living a physically mercurial lifestyle, in a context where bonding with children and nurturing them is difficult enough even if one were doping a 9-5 job for all the years of the children's growth?
Availability of Details of Family Life
How much information is readily available on Soyinka's first wife?
I am describing his wives through conjecture from an interview with his son linked below.
How much info is available on his second wife, whom I expect is Laide?
Beyond his dedication of The Man Died to her, how much can one readily point to?
How much information is readily available on his third wife?
Does he have any children from his third marriage?
Who is the name of the mother of his first child?
I am not about to Google all these questions because I am not really interested in them.
I ask them to suggest what I think is one fact- that most people reading this post cant answer these questions because the information is not readily available.
These are questions is likely to elicit blank spaces in people's minds.
Even if I were to search for the info, I expect that with Achebe, I would answer the relevant questions on page 1 of a Google search. I wonder how many pages one might look through in Soyinka's case.
Test : Wikipedia Pages on Soyinka and Achebe
I invite anyone to test everything I have written through in the Wikipedia entry on Achebe and Soyinka.
I'm sorry to spoil the satisfaction of discovery but the following is evident
1. I have underestimated the scope of Soyinka's engagements outside Nigeria, particularly in terms of highly prestigious appointments in the West.
2. Compared to Soyinka, Achebe's mobility outside Nigeria is almost provincial.
3. There is no reference to Soyinka's adult private life. No mother of children, no wife, no children, no family history.
4. The Achebe essay has an entire subsection titled "Marriage and Family" where we learn of
A. How and where he met his wife.
B. Where and when they married
C. The development of their marriage, with a link to an article to back this up.
D. The names of all their children, in the order in which they were born, stating when they were born.
E. The names of their grandchildren.
F. The relationship between the Achebe's vision of child rearing and the writing of the maestro's children's books in relation to the rest of his oeuvre.
G. A summative statement by Achebe of his vision of family, supported by
H. Links to Achebe's last daughter's faculty profile at Michigan Sate University and to her book publications
Two Reason for Wikipedia Information Discrepancy on the Family Lives of Achebe and Soyinka
One reason for the discrepancy of information between the Wikipedia info Soyinka and Achebe's marital life is that much of the info for Achebe comes from Ezenwa-Ohaeto's prize winning Achebe book while Ohaeto passed away before he could complete his Soyinka biography which I remember he once got a fellowship to work on at Harvard. Perhaps when a comprehensive Soyinka biography is competed, we shall have the relevant info.
Another is that similar but not as comprehensive info on Soyinka is available online but is not in his Wikipedia essay.
It is at
First Wife, Laide Speak On Romance With Wole Soyinka
Why ladies mill round Wole Soyinka —Son
I hope that will be updated.
I also hope a comprehensive Soyinka biography will come out soon as he is still with us.
How do they say it in mathematics?
Quid Erat Demonstratum. - please forgive any mistake in the Latin.
thanks
toyin
What you have just posted corroborates my thesis.
You quoted my summation-
"It is difficult to point to any of (Soyinka's) children because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould."
Perhaps the sentence should read " information on Soyinka's children and family life is less readily available than on Achebe because he is not a family man of the Achebe mould."
Public Visibility and Association
First, Soyinka's family life does not feature significantly in his public profile.
That of Achebe does, to a degree.
Soyinka's son's interview makes that clear.
I have comes across information about Soyinka's children from time to time, but if not for the fact that someone takes the pains to point it that these individuals are Soyinka's children, such identification might not come readily. For example, Kayode Soyinka, a bureau chief of Newswatch, was with Dele Giwa on the fateful day the letter bomb was delivered to him. I was keen to know if there is any relationship between him and Wole Soyinka. I learnt there was none.
I have seen only one picture of Soyinka with his children, and it was a staged picture, not a picture taken in an everyday setting.
On the other hand, I remember a picture of Achebe's son wheeling him some years ago. I also remember an interview with Achebe's wife whose book on the Igbo version of abiku I have in my library in Nigeria. I was particularly struck by the fact that Achebe's wife had published a book.
I know of Achebe's daughter who is an academic in the US. I even have a rough idea what she looks like, like I still remember my immediate impression of Achebe's son who was wheeling him.
I have this information, not because I looked out for it, but because I stumbled on it in the general run of things.
I am suggesting the idea that one is less likely to stumble upon information on Soyinka's family life than that of Achebe.
Physical Rootedness vs Physical Mobility
Secondly, Soyinka's son describes what is Soyinka's peripatetic lifestyle for much of his adult life. That kind of life is quite challenging to the routines conducive to raising a family.
Soyinka began at UI, which he left in his second year to go to Leeds. From Leeds he was at the Royal Court Theatre in London. From there he was in Nigeria on a fellowship to study African drama. After this perhaps followed his years at the University of Ife. He later left Ife bcs he was unhappy with the educational system, and perhaps founded his own theatre troupe. He was also out of Nigeria when he was editor of Transition, if I remember well. He spent two years in prison, in unenviable conditions. Some of his most important works were either gestated or written out of Nigeria, as he describes in the accounts of those works. A good part of Myth, Literature and the African World perhaps and almost certainly Death and the King's Horseman in Cambridge, if I remember well. After his release from prison, he left for a friend's farm in France where he wrote The Man Died. He has also worked as director of the International African Institute outside Nigeria. He fled into exile from Abacha and stated that even in exile, the dictator's squad was still after him to kill him. He has taken up appointments with various universities in the West, at different times.
Compare this history to that of Achebe, before and after his accident.
Achebe began and ended his academic studies at UI. Does Achebe have the same or even near equal level of global activity after his BA? Achebe was ensconced in Biafra, not in prison, during the war. As a member of the Biafran elite, his family would have been protected and readily accessible to him. He would have traveled abroad as ambassador to Biafra but he would return home to his family. Or was the family abroad?
What did Achebe do after the war?
To the best of my knowledge, he was at Nsukka, where he founded Okike. He did not edit a journal abroad, like Soyinka. Which of his works was gestated or written abroad? Note, too that he was founding editor of the African Writers Series, a job to which presence on the continent and in Nigeria would have proved vital. Note that Soyinka never published in that series. Their styles of professional development and positioning are so different.
Parenting Style : Locational Consistency vs Dynamic Focus
Note the description by Soyinka's son of his father's efforts to forge a bond with him as the young man grew older. Soyinka, understanding his lifestyle and its implications for his role as a father, made sure that he gave his son attention in between his trips. His son also describes his father's intermittent presence during his formative years along with his tendency to withdraw into contemplation. The picture suggests that as father and son matured, the father took his time to create special moments to spend with his son in between his various trips around the world.
Domestic Centring
Now, imagine the challenges facing Soyinka, his children and their mothers.
First, he had a child whom his wife cared for, his first son.
In the midst of this delicate situation, he spent two years in prison. After that, he is off to France to write about the prison experience.
Further down the line, his wife is deeply unhappy and gives an interview to a Nigerian gossip mag about a lifestyle of martial infidelity she ascribes to him.
Can you imagine the potential of these developments for a man who is living a physically mercurial lifestyle, in a context where bonding with children and nurturing them is difficult enough even if one were doping a 9-5 job for all the years of the children's growth?
Availability of Details of Family Life
How much information is readily available on Soyinka's first wife?
I am describing his wives through conjecture from an interview with his son linked below.
How much info is available on his second wife, whom I expect is Laide?
Beyond his dedication of The Man Died to her, how much can one readily point to?
How much information is readily available on his third wife?
Does he have any children from his third marriage?
Who is the name of the mother of his first child?
I am not about to Google all these questions because I am not really interested in them.
I ask them to suggest what I think is one fact- that most people reading this post cant answer these questions because the information is not readily available.
These are questions is likely to elicit blank spaces in people's minds.
Even if I were to search for the info, I expect that with Achebe, I would answer the relevant questions on page 1 of a Google search. I wonder how many pages one might look through in Soyinka's case.
Test : Wikipedia Pages on Soyinka and Achebe
I invite anyone to test everything I have written through in the Wikipedia entry on Achebe and Soyinka.
I'm sorry to spoil the satisfaction of discovery but the following is evident
1. I have underestimated the scope of Soyinka's engagements outside Nigeria, particularly in terms of highly prestigious appointments in the West.
2. Compared to Soyinka, Achebe's mobility outside Nigeria is almost provincial.
3. There is no reference to Soyinka's adult private life. No mother of children, no wife, no children, no family history.
4. The Achebe essay has an entire subsection titled "Marriage and Family" where we learn of
A. How and where he met his wife.
B. Where and when they married
C. The development of their marriage, with a link to an article to back this up.
D. The names of all their children, in the order in which they were born, stating when they were born.
E. The names of their grandchildren.
F. The relationship between the Achebe's vision of child rearing and the writing of the maestro's children's books in relation to the rest of his oeuvre.
G. A summative statement by Achebe of his vision of family, supported by
H. Links to Achebe's last daughter's faculty profile at Michigan Sate University and to her book publications
Two Reason for Wikipedia Information Discrepancy on the Family Lives of Achebe and Soyinka
One reason for the discrepancy of information between the Wikipedia info Soyinka and Achebe's marital life is that much of the info for Achebe comes from Ezenwa-Ohaeto's prize winning Achebe book while Ohaeto passed away before he could complete his Soyinka biography which I remember he once got a fellowship to work on at Harvard. Perhaps when a comprehensive Soyinka biography is competed, we shall have the relevant info.
Another is that similar but not as comprehensive info on Soyinka is available online but is not in his Wikipedia essay.
It is at
First Wife, Laide Speak On Romance With Wole Soyinka
Why ladies mill round Wole Soyinka —Son
I hope that will be updated.
I also hope a comprehensive Soyinka biography will come out soon as he is still with us.
How do they say it in mathematics?
Quid Erat Demonstratum. - please forgive any mistake in the Latin.
thanks
toyin
--
CompcrosComparative Cognitive Processes and Systems"Exploring Every Corner of the Cosmos in Search of Knowledge"
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Abolaji Adekeye
Mar 27, 2013, 11:29:54 AM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Tola Adeniyi is such a coward. At his age one feels he should be old enough to know better (but wisdom is to Solomon what age is to Methuselah ). The attack is in poor taste and reeks of bitterness and envy. Perhaps, it is Soyinka's fault not have hosted Deto Deni to a lavish honeymoon.
Bj
--
Nurudeen Saliu
Mar 27, 2013, 12:17:43 PM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
BJ
“….The attack is in poor taste and reeks of bitterness and envy”
Poor taste, bitterness and envy. These things eat at the being of whomever they reside but, who cares.
Kongi dey KAMPE with wholesome omoluabi attributes.
Aba Saheed and shifting morals, till death do they part.
Enjoy your day
Dotun N. Salu
Ikhide
Mar 27, 2013, 11:58:43 AM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
I have to say, I read that "tribute" and I was appalled by the cowardice and the savagery of the individual that wrote it. I have no doubt that Professor Achebe would have disavowed such a self-serving "ode" to him. Absurd.
- Ikhide
Stalk my blog at http://www.xokigbo.com/
Follow me on Twitter: @ikhide
Join me on Facebook: www.facebook.com/ikhide
From: elombah daniel <elsd...@yahoo.com>
To: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>; "Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects <naijain...@googlegroups.com>; "niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
My brothers,Chief Tola Adeniyi saw the truth, spoke the truth and wrote absolutely nothing but the truth...Yes, Wole Soyinka, we all love him, but somehow in our quiet moments, deep in our hearts, we just look at the man, his works, his attitude, his grandstanding, his writings and quietly wonder......I read Chinua Achebe as a primary school pupil.....but as a secondary school student, I only managed to finish 'The Man Died', mainly because of it's historical narrative.As for the rest of Soyinka's works....For all my love for Literature, (I chose Literature as an option both in Secondary and Tertiary) I had to force myself to read them as an undergraduate, just because they were written by the great Wole Soyinka.As for Soyinka's politics - wining and dining with all our former corrupt president's at night and pretending in the daytime to side with the masses, we also saw them, but still feel that his good sides outweigh his bad sides....after-all this is Nigeria, our Nigeria.....and yes we still respect Soyinka as Nigeria's worthy ambassador.....Soyinka is great, no doubt, but Achebe is a colossus!.....and if you Bolaji Aluko wrote, just last night that there is nothing wrong for some disgusting and animalistic low-lifes on this forum to lie and speak ill of the distinguished and honourable Achebe in death, (You last night urged "dear all" to speak the good the bad the ugly about Achebe) it is rampaging hypocrisy for you for you to disparage Chief Tola Adeniyi for saying the truth as he saw them.Daniel Elombah+44-7435469430
Every Nigerian that has something important to say, says it on http://www.elombah.com/
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dayoal...@yahoo.co.uk
Mar 27, 2013, 3:57:05 PM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, Akinyemi Onigbinde, topcrest topcrest, elombah daniel, Omo...@yahoogroups.com, NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com, naijaintellects, niger...@yahoogroups.com, Ra'ayi, Yan Arewa
The death of Achebe, the renown literary scholar has opened intellectual discuss. Commentators and 'scholars' of different shades and colors have made comments. After an analytical study of the commentaries, I came to the conclusion that the death of Achebe provided a good ground for two set of commentators. The first are those who believed in Achebe and used the opportunity of his death to eulogize him. The second are writers using the opportunity of Achebe's death to register their protests against their unidentified 'literary enemies'. Mug slugging, name calling and unguarded use of foul language have replaced fair dialogue guiding intellectual discuss. I think it is time for Toyin Falola to introduce some dose of sanity into USA African Dialogue Series, so as to maintain decorum and respect for the opinion of others. Enough of exchange of words. Give Ahebe some break. Dayo Alao.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:36:50 +0000 (GMT)
To: Akinyemi Onigbinde<akinom...@yahoo.com>
ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: topcrest topcrest<topc...@yahoo.com>; elombah daniel<elsd...@yahoo.com>; Omo...@yahoogroups.com<Omo...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects<naijain...@googlegroups.com>; niger...@yahoogroups.com<niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue<USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (shina7...@yahoo.com
Mar 27, 2013, 2:10:13 PM3/27/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
On Dialogical Etiquette
Toyin,
I have only something to say on what you aptly titled 'dialogical etiquette'.
First, I don't think discussion should degenerate to the level of abusive language. Pardon me, but I belong to the old school in this regard. The last time the elders on this forum began the insult game, I was appalled. It seems to me that you don't consider it demeaning to trade insults.
Second, are you justified in entering the gutter with someone who considers it appropriate to address you from that dishonourable position? Does that count as justice? If someone considers it below him/herself to hurl insults at me, I promptly keep quiet. If I reply with further insults, does that serve the purpose of the dialogical etiquette/ethic?
Third, I don't need to say anything to the person who began the 'insult war' since I only care about the person who may be provoked to want to reply. In other words, if you receive insults, can you be so magnanimous as to allow the insults to die with you rather than being the source of its escalation and hence the consequent bastardisation of the noble and serious mandate of this forum? Believe, your claim that
Toyin,
I have only something to say on what you aptly titled 'dialogical etiquette'.
First, I don't think discussion should degenerate to the level of abusive language. Pardon me, but I belong to the old school in this regard. The last time the elders on this forum began the insult game, I was appalled. It seems to me that you don't consider it demeaning to trade insults.
Second, are you justified in entering the gutter with someone who considers it appropriate to address you from that dishonourable position? Does that count as justice? If someone considers it below him/herself to hurl insults at me, I promptly keep quiet. If I reply with further insults, does that serve the purpose of the dialogical etiquette/ethic?
Third, I don't need to say anything to the person who began the 'insult war' since I only care about the person who may be provoked to want to reply. In other words, if you receive insults, can you be so magnanimous as to allow the insults to die with you rather than being the source of its escalation and hence the consequent bastardisation of the noble and serious mandate of this forum? Believe, your claim that
"If I am not prepared to defend myself vigorously, I would not be able to speak my mind on controversial issues the way I do"
does not make any sense to me. Insults should not in any way detract from saying what you want to say.
Lastly, let me reiterate the words of my Olooko (name sake-Oga Michael Afolayan), I respect your argumentative resilience...except when you go on and on and on like you are doing with the Osu stuff or when you shoot off on something that deserves deeper thought like the Soyinka and Achebe comparison.
The insult game irritate me, and makes those who engage in it appear lowly in my estimation. You don't need to agree with me on this. Yet, we need a dialogical etiquette and not in your template.
Be well brother!
Adeshina Afolayan
Lastly, let me reiterate the words of my Olooko (name sake-Oga Michael Afolayan), I respect your argumentative resilience...except when you go on and on and on like you are doing with the Osu stuff or when you shoot off on something that deserves deeper thought like the Soyinka and Achebe comparison.
The insult game irritate me, and makes those who engage in it appear lowly in my estimation. You don't need to agree with me on this. Yet, we need a dialogical etiquette and not in your template.
Be well brother!
Adeshina Afolayan
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
From: OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <tva...@gmail.com>
Sender: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:34:09 +0000
To: usaafricadialogue<usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA
ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
ezii...@gmail.com
Mar 27, 2013, 4:13:07 PM3/27/13
to dayoal...@yahoo.co.uk, usaafric...@googlegroups.com
I quite agree with you, Prof. Alao. People should learn to make their own contributions without being insulting.
Ezinwanyi E. ADAM
Sent from my Nokia Phone
------Original message------
From: <dayoal...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>,"Akinyemi Onigbinde" <akinom...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "topcrest topcrest" <topc...@yahoo.com>,"elombah daniel" <elsd...@yahoo.com>,"Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>,"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,"naijaintellects" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>,"Ra'ayi" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,"Yan Arewa" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:57:05 PM GMT+0000
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
The death of Achebe, the renown literary scholar has opened intellectual discuss. Commentators and 'scholars' of different shades and colors have made comments. After an analytical study of the commentaries, I came to the conclusion that the death of Achebe provided a good ground for two set of commentators. The first are those who believed in Achebe and used the opportunity of his death to eulogize him. The second are writers using the opportunity of Achebe's death to register their protests against their unidentified 'literary enemies'. Mug slugging, name calling and unguarded use of foul language have replaced fair dialogue guiding intellectual discuss. I think it is time for Toyin Falola to introduce some dose of sanity into USA African Dialogue Series, so as to maintain decorum and respect for the opinion of others. Enough of exchange of words. Give Ahebe some break. Dayo Alao.
More info: http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=13832107750&tc_rand=331455426&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001
Ezinwanyi E. ADAM
Sent from my Nokia Phone
------Original message------
From: <dayoal...@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>,"Akinyemi Onigbinde" <akinom...@yahoo.com>
Cc: "topcrest topcrest" <topc...@yahoo.com>,"elombah daniel" <elsd...@yahoo.com>,"Omo...@yahoogroups.com" <Omo...@yahoogroups.com>,"NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com" <NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>,"naijaintellects" <naijain...@googlegroups.com>,"niger...@yahoogroups.com" <niger...@yahoogroups.com>,"Ra'ayi" <Raay...@yahoogroups.com>,"Yan Arewa" <YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 7:57:05 PM GMT+0000
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
The death of Achebe, the renown literary scholar has opened intellectual discuss. Commentators and 'scholars' of different shades and colors have made comments. After an analytical study of the commentaries, I came to the conclusion that the death of Achebe provided a good ground for two set of commentators. The first are those who believed in Achebe and used the opportunity of his death to eulogize him. The second are writers using the opportunity of Achebe's death to register their protests against their unidentified 'literary enemies'. Mug slugging, name calling and unguarded use of foul language have replaced fair dialogue guiding intellectual discuss. I think it is time for Toyin Falola to introduce some dose of sanity into USA African Dialogue Series, so as to maintain decorum and respect for the opinion of others. Enough of exchange of words. Give Ahebe some break. Dayo Alao.
Sent from my BlackBerry wireless device from MTN
-----Original Message-----
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:36:50
To: Akinyemi Onigbinde<akinom...@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: topcrest topcrest<topc...@yahoo.com>; elombah daniel<elsd...@yahoo.com>; Omo...@yahoogroups.com<Omo...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects<naijain...@googlegroups.com>; niger...@yahoogroups.com<niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue<USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
From: Mobolaji Aluko <alu...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:36:50
To: Akinyemi Onigbinde<akinom...@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Cc: topcrest topcrest<topc...@yahoo.com>; elombah daniel<elsd...@yahoo.com>; Omo...@yahoogroups.com<Omo...@yahoogroups.com>; NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com<NaijaP...@yahoogroups.com>; naijaintellects<naijain...@googlegroups.com>; niger...@yahoogroups.com<niger...@yahoogroups.com>; Ra'ayi<Raay...@yahoogroups.com>; USAAfrica Dialogue<USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>; Yan Arewa<YanA...@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: NigerianID | Bolaji Aluko Re: TOLA ADENIYI ON ACHEBE!!!
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (alu...@gmail.com)
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OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU
Mar 28, 2013, 5:24:31 AM3/28/13
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
To Shina,
To ask me to apologize to Cornelius and then keep silent when I challenge you to consider what Cornelius earlier said does not suggest justice.
It suggests hypocrisy to demand one person should apologize and then keep silent when you are asked to consider what the other person stated earlier.
I dont see how you can explain that away.
Anybody who wants a forum that is insult free needs to play an active role in ensuring it. Be quick to criticize bad behavour.
Finally, please, please, stop telling me you admire anything I do. I am better off without the kind of admiration from you and Michael Afolayan.
Your claims of admiration always come with unjust assessments.
I am more comfortable with the unqualified attack of an Ogbunweze, an Ikhide or a Kingsley Nnabuagha.
I am not interested in snide admirers.
I am not here to court anybody's support, admiration or approval. I simply do what I consider my duty to myself and to societies I belong to.
If you see no value in an extensive discussion of a subject of such gravity as the osu issue, tell us why and not engage in snide remarks. If you have any point to make on the Soyinka issue, state why as Aluko has done.If you cannot take the trouble to state and justify your position, why bother commenting?
Finally, pleases, spare me your attention with claims of admiration. It is not welcome. It is against my interests.
Toyin
To ask me to apologize to Cornelius and then keep silent when I challenge you to consider what Cornelius earlier said does not suggest justice.
It suggests hypocrisy to demand one person should apologize and then keep silent when you are asked to consider what the other person stated earlier.
I dont see how you can explain that away.
Anybody who wants a forum that is insult free needs to play an active role in ensuring it. Be quick to criticize bad behavour.
Finally, please, please, stop telling me you admire anything I do. I am better off without the kind of admiration from you and Michael Afolayan.
Your claims of admiration always come with unjust assessments.
I am more comfortable with the unqualified attack of an Ogbunweze, an Ikhide or a Kingsley Nnabuagha.
I am not interested in snide admirers.
I am not here to court anybody's support, admiration or approval. I simply do what I consider my duty to myself and to societies I belong to.
If you see no value in an extensive discussion of a subject of such gravity as the osu issue, tell us why and not engage in snide remarks. If you have any point to make on the Soyinka issue, state why as Aluko has done.If you cannot take the trouble to state and justify your position, why bother commenting?
Finally, pleases, spare me your attention with claims of admiration. It is not welcome. It is against my interests.
Toyin
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