Re: Marine Corps Times: Army platoon defies "suicide" order
David Casey
<news:Xns9583736F...@216.168.3.44>:
> http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-453911.php
Wow, from just the details in the article, it sounds like a major command
problem to me. Whichever officer is in charge of that unit isn't doing
their job.
Dave
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la n.
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:24:59 -0000, Non-republicrat Voter wrote in
> <news:Xns9583736F...@216.168.3.44>:
>
>
>>http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-453911.php
>
>
> Wow, from just the details in the article, it sounds like a major command
> problem to me. Whichever officer is in charge of that unit isn't doing
> their job.
>
> Dave
I've read this report in various news sources, including
up here in Canada.
- nilita
Gene Aldrich
<sgtc...@IH8SPAMcableone.net>
wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:24:59 -0000, Non-republicrat Voter wrote in
><news:Xns9583736F...@216.168.3.44>:
>
>> http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-453911.php
>
>Wow, from just the details in the article, it sounds like a major command
>problem to me. Whichever officer is in charge of that unit isn't doing
>their job.
Sounds like the Jarheads are getting fed up themselves:
Marine In Iraq: 'It's Worse Every Day'
October 15, 2004
The summer of 2000, before his senior year in high school, Jonathan Snyder
made up his mind. He was going to be a Marine.
That's all he talked about, says his father, Sherman Snyder Jr. That's what
he was all about, his dad says. He wanted to be the best, and the best were
the Marines. His dad's not sure where his oldest son's desire came from. He
has a couple of cousins who are Marines and an uncle served during World War
II.
Jonathan, he said, was 100 percent dedicated to becoming a Marine.
He signed up that summer and, upon graduating from Gettysburg High School in
2001, he went off to Parris Island, S.C., for basic training. He was going
to be a warrior.
His corps class graduated from basic on Sept. 12, 2001.
Snyder was gung-ho, as many of his Marine brothers were at the time. They
were ready to kick ass and take names. They were ready to take vengeance on
those who attacked the country they had sworn to defend with their lives.
He was sent to Camp Lejeune in North Carolina where he joined the 1st
Battalion, 2nd Marines.
He knew he'd be going to battle. His father said that's why he'd signed up
to protect his country.
After a few stateside assignments, his unit went to Iraq.
And it is there that the education of Lance Cpl. Jonathan Snyder really
began.
His lessons culminated Sunday, when he was quoted in the Washington Post,
saying, "Every day you read articles in the states when it's like Oh, it's
getting better and better.' But when you're here, you know it's worse every
day."
In July, his platoon the 81s, named for the size of its mortar rounds was
deployed to Camp Iskandariyah, in Babil Province, about 30 miles southwest
of Baghdad. The fighting there has been fierce, even though it's drowned out
by headlines from places like Fallujah, Samarra and Sadr City. Since the
Marines entered Babil Province, 102 of their ranks have been wounded. Four
have been killed.
Nearly every day, the Marines encounter roadside bombs. Hardly a day passes
without their camp coming under rocket or mortar attack.
Every day in the Corps, the saying goes, is a holiday a holiday in hell.
When the 81s go out on patrol, the Post quoted the soldiers as saying, they
seldom accomplish anything. One Marine told the reporter, "You don't really
know who you're fighting." Other Marines said that by the time they respond
to an attack, the insurgents have disappeared, and they're left with nobody
to fight.
They hear their officers telling them that once they train Iraqi security
forces, they'll be able to leave. They think that's nonsense although you'd
be hard pressed to find a Marine who uses that word in lieu of a more
descriptive term. The soldiers believe the Iraqis are nowhere near being
able to take over for the Marines and may never be. Some of the Iraqi
police, in fact, have changed sides and have joined the insurgents.
Sherman Snyder has heard some of this from his son. He doesn't hear from him
as regularly as he'd like. It's hard to make a phone call or write a letter
when you're under attack. Sherman said his son has kept in touch with his
wife, Stephanie, and 7-month-old daughter, Ann Marie. They are living with
Sherman in Gettysburg while Jonathan is overseas.
His son doesn't say a lot about what's going on in Iraq. He does say,
though, that things aren't going well.
And he does question the war.
"I feel about the same way he does," said Sherman, who works for a
weatherization company. "We've lost 1,000 soldiers for nothing."
Sherman said, "I don't blame those boys over there. They're doing their job.
But the people who got us into this . . ."
The people who got us into this.
You know who they are. They are the same people who told us we had to fear
Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and his ties to the people who attacked
us things that turned out to be fiction. They are the same people who are
now saying they'll delay any large- scale military action in Iraq until
after the election playing politics with the lives of guys like Jonathan
Snyder.
Sherman said Jonathan has told him that he's supposed to leave Iraq next
February. He'll believe it when it happens.
His son, he said, went into the Marines to protect this country. Now,
Sherman said, he doesn't know. He just doesn't know.
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_marine_101504,00.html
Delexnkt
news:10nalk9...@corp.supernews.com...
version of it) about a week or so ago it also mention about halfway through
that this one Marine's attitude did not reflect that of other Marines in
Iraq or even in his own unit. The article in fact went on to say that his
particular view was actually not shared by most of the Marines. Amazing how
that got left out in this article.
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Gene Aldrich
"Delexnkt" <dele...@gsiwave.com> wrote in message
news:41756...@127.0.0.1...
> Very interesting. You know, when I first saw this article (or another
> version of it) about a week or so ago it also mention about halfway
through
> that this one Marine's attitude did not reflect that of other Marines in
> Iraq or even in his own unit. The article in fact went on to say that his
> particular view was actually not shared by most of the Marines. Amazing
> how that got left out in this article.
Meanwhile they'll be making room for "a few good men" at Ft. Leavenworth:
Marines Show Frustration In Iraq
Associated Press
October 19, 2004
QAIM, Iraq - The sound of the Black Hawk medical helicopter is an ominous
sign for the Marines patrolling this forgotten western corner of Iraq that
borders Syria. It means that one of them is seriously wounded or killed at
the hands of their elusive enemy or the bombs he had laid in waiting.
The sound of roaring engine, shattering evening calm, gets immediately
followed up with a quick whisper among the troops, trying to find out who
was it, this time.
At this Marine base few miles away from the Syrian border to the far west of
the restless Anbar province, the news spreads quickly.
"We are losing guys left and right," says Cpl. Cody King, 20, of Phoenix,
Ariz. "All we are doing around here is getting blown up," he says, not
hiding his anger.
Most of the incidents these days in this far flung corner of Iraq, enveloped
by an endless desert, dried up river beds and winding dirt roads, include
155 mm artillery shells, mines and other sort of crude home made bombs,
which are among the biggest killer of troops in this war. They make the
Marine's enemy faceless and only heighten the feeling of vulnerability, not
assuaged by the limited armor at their disposal.
King and his fellow Marines from the weapons company of the 1st Battalion,
7th Marine Regiment, spoke in between patrols, huddled together and sifting
through their log book venting their anger and frustration, but never
speaking of fear.
Among other things their green leather bound book lists are the number of
times their company was hit by homemade bombs since they got to Iraqi two
months ago. Written in fine careful print, the book contains names of those
who were killed or wounded during those incidents.
On Sept. 3, during their first patrol since coming back to Iraq, a
thunderous blast ripped through a group of Marines that King was with, as
they were providing security for the engineers repairing a bridge over the
Euphrates river, near the town of Ubayd.
Four Marines were killed and three were wounded when a home made bomb went
off, sending shrapnel and debris flying. Some of the those killed were
barely recognizable, said King, who escaped unscathed.
Marine deaths per month in Iraq, have in recent months exceeded those
suffered by the Army, even though the Army have at least three times as many
troops in Iraq. It is difficult to pinpoint the reasons for the unusually
high death toll for the Marines because they limit details on the
circumstances of battle deaths to either "enemy action" or "non-combat
related."
The Army specifies the type of weapon that caused the death as well as the
city where it happened.
"After you lose so many Marines, you just keep fighting to stay alive,"
King, a son of a Vietnam veteran, say.
But for some of the Marines lack of armor, few vehicles and too restrictive
rules of engagement are partly to blame.
"We need more armor, more vehicles and more bodies," says King.
Gunnery Sgt. Jason Berold, says that rules, as they are now, are very
frustrating. Unless they see insurgents shooting at them or have otherwise
what they call positive identification, little they can do but watch as they
leg it and melt among the people.
"It is very frustrating," says Berold, 38, of Los Angeles.
"All we are doing is getting Americans killed and we cannot do much about
it," says King, as the other marines in the room nod in approval.
"None of us are scared of going out ... as long as you get one bad guy."
But now because of the existing rules of the engagement, the only thing left
after the incidents, is to "pick up your dead and wounded and get out of
there as soon as possible," King says.
Sgt. Ryan Hall, 27, says that a "50:50" chance of getting blown on patrol,
is a good bet among his troops. As he walks outside the compound, Hall, of
Abilene, Texas, points to the damage that their company vehicles, have
suffered in the recent patrols. There are cracks in the armored windshield
of their Humvees from flying shrapnel. Holes on the back and damage to its
side.
As they spoke, shortly after darkness fell in this distant base, another
sound of the helicopter signaled what they all knew.
"You do not know whether he will survive," King says.
That night alone, only one made it, after a suicide car bomber ram into
their patrol near the town of Qaim. Two soldiers and one Marine died.