ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched person?
I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a few minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and love, and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie. Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender' the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater purposes.
I guess what I have always asked is, what is being devoted actually
mean? Devotion is something that for everyone is differnt yet the
concept seems to hold. I do not consider myself an unchurched person,
I just realize that there is a different reason to this mystery we
deem life. For everyone there is a reason for wanting to know God.
Most who search for knowing God are searching because we want to know
that beyond the insanity of this planet is a sane God watching over us
and making sure that all stays in order so that oneday we may go and
reside with him.
We create a belief system that includes the ever powerful all knowing
all sovereign God. We devote ourselves to him so we might be rewarded
after we die and while on this earth hope he throws us some bread
crumbs. Better that we serve a God who if we jump through all of the
hoops correctly, will allow us to enter what we understand heaven to
be. If we do not do any of this, we will burn in Hell forever. Sounds
like free will doesn't really exist. We are given two choices and that
is it. I has nothing to do with serving God of your own free will, but
rather being saved from the everlasting flames of Hell that is too
horrible to imagine even in your worst nightmares you could not dream
of such unimaginable suffering. I guess we would be like Dogs devoted
to his master so he doesn't get beat everytime he craps on the carpet
or something like that.
I am not being offensive, I am just doing what no one else dares to
do, question everything. I am analyzing all of my thoughts and all of
my beliefs to get to one thing and one thing only. The Truth.
I will tell you this, for now I pray to God to ask for His wisdom and
guidance. Most of all I want the Truth and nothing more. I do read the
Bible, but I do not accept it all as God's Truth, I am constantly
asking God to reveal what is actually being said and what is
important, to Guide me through the web of confused thinking and
stories that are told. I also look outside of the Bible for answers,
and I have found that most out there have no clue, when I say most I
refer to 99.9% of the sources out there have no idea what it is they
are talking about or what they themselves actually know or believe. I
do not judge or sit in judgment of anyone, I just want to burn off the
crap and what survives the fire, is real.
Monk
On Nov 14, 6:49 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you
> go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched
> person?
> I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a few
> minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and love,
> and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie.
> Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message
> translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender'
> the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater
> purposes.
ok...let's forget hell... maybe hell does not exist (I would certainly
like to think not). Can we be devoted to God just because we love him?
or because he is TRUE?
j
On Nov 29, 10:46 am, Monk <pcanywhere...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I guess what I have always asked is, what is being devoted actually
> mean? Devotion is something that for everyone is differnt yet the
> concept seems to hold. I do not consider myself an unchurched person,
> I just realize that there is a different reason to this mystery we
> deem life. For everyone there is a reason for wanting to know God.
> Most who search for knowing God are searching because we want to know
> that beyond the insanity of this planet is a sane God watching over us
> and making sure that all stays in order so that oneday we may go and
> reside with him.
> We create a belief system that includes the ever powerful all knowing
> all sovereign God. We devote ourselves to him so we might be rewarded
> after we die and while on this earth hope he throws us some bread
> crumbs. Better that we serve a God who if we jump through all of the
> hoops correctly, will allow us to enter what we understand heaven to
> be. If we do not do any of this, we will burn in Hell forever. Sounds
> like free will doesn't really exist. We are given two choices and that
> is it. I has nothing to do with serving God of your own free will, but
> rather being saved from the everlasting flames of Hell that is too
> horrible to imagine even in your worst nightmares you could not dream
> of such unimaginable suffering. I guess we would be like Dogs devoted
> to his master so he doesn't get beat everytime he craps on the carpet
> or something like that.
> I am not being offensive, I am just doing what no one else dares to
> do, question everything. I am analyzing all of my thoughts and all of
> my beliefs to get to one thing and one thing only. The Truth.
> I will tell you this, for now I pray to God to ask for His wisdom and
> guidance. Most of all I want the Truth and nothing more. I do read the
> Bible, but I do not accept it all as God's Truth, I am constantly
> asking God to reveal what is actually being said and what is
> important, to Guide me through the web of confused thinking and
> stories that are told. I also look outside of the Bible for answers,
> and I have found that most out there have no clue, when I say most I
> refer to 99.9% of the sources out there have no idea what it is they
> are talking about or what they themselves actually know or believe. I
> do not judge or sit in judgment of anyone, I just want to burn off the
> crap and what survives the fire, is real.
> Monk
> On Nov 14, 6:49 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you
> > go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched
> > person?
> > I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a few
> > minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and love,
> > and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie.
> > Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message
> > translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender'
> > the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater
> > purposes.- Hide quoted text -
> ok...let's forget hell... maybe hell does not exist (I would certainly > like to think not). Can we be devoted to God just because we love him? > or because he is TRUE?
> j
> On Nov 29, 10:46 am, Monk <pcanywhere...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Devotion....
> > Nice entrance!
> > I guess what I have always asked is, what is being devoted actually > > mean? Devotion is something that for everyone is differnt yet the > > concept seems to hold. I do not consider myself an unchurched person, > > I just realize that there is a different reason to this mystery we > > deem life. For everyone there is a reason for wanting to know God. > > Most who search for knowing God are searching because we want to know > > that beyond the insanity of this planet is a sane God watching over us > > and making sure that all stays in order so that oneday we may go and > > reside with him.
> > We create a belief system that includes the ever powerful all knowing > > all sovereign God. We devote ourselves to him so we might be rewarded > > after we die and while on this earth hope he throws us some bread > > crumbs. Better that we serve a God who if we jump through all of the > > hoops correctly, will allow us to enter what we understand heaven to > > be. If we do not do any of this, we will burn in Hell forever. Sounds > > like free will doesn't really exist. We are given two choices and that > > is it. I has nothing to do with serving God of your own free will, but > > rather being saved from the everlasting flames of Hell that is too > > horrible to imagine even in your worst nightmares you could not dream > > of such unimaginable suffering. I guess we would be like Dogs devoted > > to his master so he doesn't get beat everytime he craps on the carpet > > or something like that.
> > I am not being offensive, I am just doing what no one else dares to > > do, question everything. I am analyzing all of my thoughts and all of > > my beliefs to get to one thing and one thing only. The Truth.
> > I will tell you this, for now I pray to God to ask for His wisdom and > > guidance. Most of all I want the Truth and nothing more. I do read the > > Bible, but I do not accept it all as God's Truth, I am constantly > > asking God to reveal what is actually being said and what is > > important, to Guide me through the web of confused thinking and > > stories that are told. I also look outside of the Bible for answers, > > and I have found that most out there have no clue, when I say most I > > refer to 99.9% of the sources out there have no idea what it is they > > are talking about or what they themselves actually know or believe. I > > do not judge or sit in judgment of anyone, I just want to burn off the > > crap and what survives the fire, is real.
> > Monk
> > On Nov 14, 6:49 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you > > > go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched > > > person?
> > > I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a few > > > minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and love, > > > and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie. > > > Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message > > > translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender' > > > the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater > > > purposes.- Hide quoted text -
Okay... I like this question because now we are getting to the heart
to of the matter.
I understand devotion as a state of being, not a code nor a value.
Devotion is what you do when you love. When you love someone you give
yourself to that person. The thing about devotion is, there are many
types and levels of human devotion. Unfortunately this is True.
Devotion to God... God is not a God of dualism, to be devoted or not
devoted would not even be something he might think of. Christ said
something interesting.
"If you have seen me you have seen the father."
What does that mean? Was Christ claiming to be God? Here is where it
seems I go off topic, but the Truth is, this is the whole topic.
"I abide in the Father and He in me."
"My will is the will of the Father."
There are clues all throughout Christ's life about what it is he is
saying. The question is how much misinterpretation is there in
theology? Could it be that Christ is a part of who God is much like we
are? Is it possible that we are all part of God?
Humanity is a concept that is incredibly insane. We have made the
human race its own God as we give ourselves and what we do in life
importance and that it really matters that we move ahead in life and
attain things and need things. I ask then, where is our devotion and
what is it we are really devoted to?
The existence of God as a master and creator of the universe is a
concept that has been asked and reasked by all humanity. The Greeks,
Romans, Mayans, Native American Indians, the Norse, Asian Cultures,
India, I can go on... They all have stories and they all have
something in common, No one has ever seen their God. No one has ever
been able to see who God is. When it comes to God, he is more of a
concept than a reality. In some cultures you have many Dieties and
they all answer to one God. Mythology puts human faces and
characteristics to God. The fact is we all do that because we really
do not know who God is.
Our first mission is and has to be to Know God... When I say 'Know
God', I am not talking about a conceptual God, I am talkin about
Knowing God... How can you be devoted to something you do not know or
to someone you do not know?
Knowing God does not mean reiterate or paraphrase a book (Bible),
Christ did not know God through a book... He had no book he needed to
read in order to know God. Yet we put such emphasis on Bible, and miss
God completely. Christ showed us something and we need to see it for
ourselves, let's quit looking at the finger pointing at the moon and
see the moon. Let's stop talking about the men who have walked on the
moon, let's walk on the moon ourselves so we may know it and see it,
taste it. Then let's talk about devotion.
Monk
On Nov 29, 11:07 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ok...let's forget hell... maybe hell does not exist (I would certainly
> like to think not). Can we be devoted to God just because we love him?
> or because he is TRUE?
> j
> On Nov 29, 10:46 am, Monk <pcanywhere...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Devotion....
> > Nice entrance!
> > I guess what I have always asked is, what is being devoted actually
> > mean? Devotion is something that for everyone is differnt yet the
> > concept seems to hold. I do not consider myself an unchurched person,
> > I just realize that there is a different reason to this mystery we
> > deem life. For everyone there is a reason for wanting to know God.
> > Most who search for knowing God are searching because we want to know
> > that beyond the insanity of this planet is a sane God watching over us
> > and making sure that all stays in order so that oneday we may go and
> > reside with him.
> > We create a belief system that includes the ever powerful all knowing
> > all sovereign God. We devote ourselves to him so we might be rewarded
> > after we die and while on this earth hope he throws us some bread
> > crumbs. Better that we serve a God who if we jump through all of the
> > hoops correctly, will allow us to enter what we understand heaven to
> > be. If we do not do any of this, we will burn in Hell forever. Sounds
> > like free will doesn't really exist. We are given two choices and that
> > is it. I has nothing to do with serving God of your own free will, but
> > rather being saved from the everlasting flames of Hell that is too
> > horrible to imagine even in your worst nightmares you could not dream
> > of such unimaginable suffering. I guess we would be like Dogs devoted
> > to his master so he doesn't get beat everytime he craps on the carpet
> > or something like that.
> > I am not being offensive, I am just doing what no one else dares to
> > do, question everything. I am analyzing all of my thoughts and all of
> > my beliefs to get to one thing and one thing only. The Truth.
> > I will tell you this, for now I pray to God to ask for His wisdom and
> > guidance. Most of all I want the Truth and nothing more. I do read the
> > Bible, but I do not accept it all as God's Truth, I am constantly
> > asking God to reveal what is actually being said and what is
> > important, to Guide me through the web of confused thinking and
> > stories that are told. I also look outside of the Bible for answers,
> > and I have found that most out there have no clue, when I say most I
> > refer to 99.9% of the sources out there have no idea what it is they
> > are talking about or what they themselves actually know or believe. I
> > do not judge or sit in judgment of anyone, I just want to burn off the
> > crap and what survives the fire, is real.
> > Monk
> > On Nov 14, 6:49 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you
> > > go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched
> > > person?
> > > I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a few
> > > minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and love,
> > > and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie.
> > > Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message
> > > translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender'
> > > the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater
> > > purposes.- Hide quoted text -
> Okay... I like this question because now we are getting to the heart > to of the matter.
> I understand devotion as a state of being, not a code nor a value. > Devotion is what you do when you love. When you love someone you give > yourself to that person. The thing about devotion is, there are many > types and levels of human devotion. Unfortunately this is True.
> Devotion to God... God is not a God of dualism, to be devoted or not > devoted would not even be something he might think of. Christ said > something interesting.
> "If you have seen me you have seen the father."
> What does that mean? Was Christ claiming to be God? Here is where it > seems I go off topic, but the Truth is, this is the whole topic.
> "I abide in the Father and He in me." > "My will is the will of the Father."
> There are clues all throughout Christ's life about what it is he is > saying. The question is how much misinterpretation is there in > theology? Could it be that Christ is a part of who God is much like we > are? Is it possible that we are all part of God?
> Humanity is a concept that is incredibly insane. We have made the > human race its own God as we give ourselves and what we do in life > importance and that it really matters that we move ahead in life and > attain things and need things. I ask then, where is our devotion and > what is it we are really devoted to?
> The existence of God as a master and creator of the universe is a > concept that has been asked and reasked by all humanity. The Greeks, > Romans, Mayans, Native American Indians, the Norse, Asian Cultures, > India, I can go on... They all have stories and they all have > something in common, No one has ever seen their God. No one has ever > been able to see who God is. When it comes to God, he is more of a > concept than a reality. In some cultures you have many Dieties and > they all answer to one God. Mythology puts human faces and > characteristics to God. The fact is we all do that because we really > do not know who God is.
> Our first mission is and has to be to Know God... When I say 'Know > God', I am not talking about a conceptual God, I am talkin about > Knowing God... How can you be devoted to something you do not know or > to someone you do not know?
> Knowing God does not mean reiterate or paraphrase a book (Bible), > Christ did not know God through a book... He had no book he needed to > read in order to know God. Yet we put such emphasis on Bible, and miss > God completely. Christ showed us something and we need to see it for > ourselves, let's quit looking at the finger pointing at the moon and > see the moon. Let's stop talking about the men who have walked on the > moon, let's walk on the moon ourselves so we may know it and see it, > taste it. Then let's talk about devotion.
> Monk
> On Nov 29, 11:07 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ok...let's forget hell... maybe hell does not exist (I would certainly > > like to think not). Can we be devoted to God just because we love him? > > or because he is TRUE?
> > j
> > On Nov 29, 10:46 am, Monk <pcanywhere...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Devotion....
> > > Nice entrance!
> > > I guess what I have always asked is, what is being devoted actually > > > mean? Devotion is something that for everyone is differnt yet the > > > concept seems to hold. I do not consider myself an unchurched person, > > > I just realize that there is a different reason to this mystery we > > > deem life. For everyone there is a reason for wanting to know God. > > > Most who search for knowing God are searching because we want to know > > > that beyond the insanity of this planet is a sane God watching over us > > > and making sure that all stays in order so that oneday we may go and > > > reside with him.
> > > We create a belief system that includes the ever powerful all knowing > > > all sovereign God. We devote ourselves to him so we might be rewarded > > > after we die and while on this earth hope he throws us some bread > > > crumbs. Better that we serve a God who if we jump through all of the > > > hoops correctly, will allow us to enter what we understand heaven to > > > be. If we do not do any of this, we will burn in Hell forever. Sounds > > > like free will doesn't really exist. We are given two choices and that > > > is it. I has nothing to do with serving God of your own free will, but > > > rather being saved from the everlasting flames of Hell that is too > > > horrible to imagine even in your worst nightmares you could not dream > > > of such unimaginable suffering. I guess we would be like Dogs devoted > > > to his master so he doesn't get beat everytime he craps on the carpet > > > or something like that.
> > > I am not being offensive, I am just doing what no one else dares to > > > do, question everything. I am analyzing all of my thoughts and all of > > > my beliefs to get to one thing and one thing only. The Truth.
> > > I will tell you this, for now I pray to God to ask for His wisdom and > > > guidance. Most of all I want the Truth and nothing more. I do read the > > > Bible, but I do not accept it all as God's Truth, I am constantly > > > asking God to reveal what is actually being said and what is > > > important, to Guide me through the web of confused thinking and > > > stories that are told. I also look outside of the Bible for answers, > > > and I have found that most out there have no clue, when I say most I > > > refer to 99.9% of the sources out there have no idea what it is they > > > are talking about or what they themselves actually know or believe. I > > > do not judge or sit in judgment of anyone, I just want to burn off the > > > crap and what survives the fire, is real.
> > > Monk
> > > On Nov 14, 6:49 am, josenmiami <josenmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > ok, there are 5 of us in here now. So here is a question: how do you > > > > go about expressing your worship or devotion to God as an unchurched > > > > person?
> > > > I'll offer my own answer to this question first. I normally take a > few > > > > minutes of quiet each morning to meditate on God's goodness and > love, > > > > and to listen to his voice. I often do this with my wife Debbie. > > > > Sometimes she reads a chapter from the Psalms (the Message > > > > translation) and sometimes we pray together. I usually 'surrender' > > > > the day to Him and surrender my will and my plans to His greater > > > > purposes.- Hide quoted text -
