I feel like borosilicate glass should be mentioned. Its more expensive than regular glass but doesn't have the disadvantages so I think its worth it. It can be cut and handles thermal stresses well. I'd never suggest tempered glass as that's just asking for trouble. One tap on the edge of tempered glass and it shatters. And like you said you can't cut it. On Apr 14, 2012 3:03 AM, "Bernhard Kubicek" <bernhard.kubi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Overall though its good to see a wiki page on the heated bed! I can add what I know when I get to a real computer after the weekend. On Apr 14, 2012 3:11 AM, "Taylor Alexander" <tlalexan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I feel like borosilicate glass should be mentioned. Its more expensive > than regular glass but doesn't have the disadvantages so I think its worth > it. It can be cut and handles thermal stresses well. I'd never suggest > tempered glass as that's just asking for trouble. One tap on the edge of > tempered glass and it shatters. And like you said you can't cut it. > On Apr 14, 2012 3:03 AM, "Bernhard Kubicek" <bernhard.kubi...@gmail.com> > wrote:
Would using peltier elements be a viable solution? They are horribly inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom. I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 12:11 PM, Taylor Alexander <tlalexan...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Overall though its good to see a wiki page on the heated bed! I can add > what I know when I get to a real computer after the weekend. > On Apr 14, 2012 3:11 AM, "Taylor Alexander" <tlalexan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I feel like borosilicate glass should be mentioned. Its more expensive >> than regular glass but doesn't have the disadvantages so I think its worth >> it. It can be cut and handles thermal stresses well. I'd never suggest >> tempered glass as that's just asking for trouble. One tap on the edge of >> tempered glass and it shatters. And like you said you can't cut it. >> On Apr 14, 2012 3:03 AM, "Bernhard Kubicek" <bernhard.kubi...@gmail.com> >> wrote:
>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ultimaker" group.
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> In the bottom, there is a reasoning why I think that a aluminium bed is > better than a glass bed.
Thanks so much for the page/update. good to have all that stuff more in one place. I am going to expand the heating pad section a bit more once I have more data, because I think they are superior to PCB heaters (because the heating elements are encapsulated, and specifically made for this purpose), and come in many different specs, high and low voltage.
If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.
Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it will cool the top quickly.
Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancy peltier controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One more project..
Bertho
From: Jelle Boomstra Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 07:24
Would using peltier elements be a viable solution? They are horribly inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom. I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)
yes, peltiers are relatively expensive. But 5 40Watt units should be plenty, and I think I paid like 25-30 dollar for 5 on ebay. It is not that expensive I think, and the time gained may compensate for it.
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boman33 <Boma...@vinland.com> wrote: > If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.****
> ** **
> Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it > will cool the top quickly.****
> ** **
> Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancy peltier > controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One > more project….****
> Bertho****
> ** **
> ** **
> ** **
> *From:* Jelle Boomstra *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2012 07:24
> ****
> Would using peltier elements be a viable solution? They are horribly > inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I > assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed > up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with > just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat > from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom. > I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)****
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ultimaker" group.
> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for > Ultimaker operators: > http://forum.ultimaker.com/
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I think about it too. But what is max T available? Some peltiers are
marked 67C delta. So in ideal conditions at room temperature 25C it
gets max t = 93C ( assuming we prevent cold side from cooling below
25C)
Is not enough for ABS ( 110C) or polycarbonat (120C) but good for PLA.
In real life we cannot block cool side from cooling below room t so
actual max t will be lower....
On Apr 14, 3:11 pm, Jelle Boomstra <je...@protospace.nl> wrote:
> yes, peltiers are relatively expensive. But 5 40Watt units should be
> plenty, and I think I paid like 25-30 dollar for 5 on ebay. It is not that
> expensive I think, and the time gained may compensate for it.
> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boman33 <Boma...@vinland.com> wrote:
> > If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.****
> > ** **
> > Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it
> > will cool the top quickly.****
> > ** **
> > Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancy peltier
> > controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One
> > more project….****
> > Would using peltier elements be a viable solution? They are horribly
> > inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I
> > assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed
> > up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with
> > just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat
> > from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom.
> > I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)****
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Ultimaker" group.
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> > Ultimaker operators:
> >http://forum.ultimaker.com/
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> > ultimaker@googlegroups.com
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> > ultimaker+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
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peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water condensation on the cold side.
mendel max has the leading heat option (silicone heater with a relay off the mains). glass is still the best but if you want to heat that fast you have to get borosilicate glass.
a local hardware store should be able to cut you plate glass for $1 for 8"x8" including labor.
my glass bed has lasted more than 2 years with very high usage (~10-20 hrs per week).
jordan
On Apr 15, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Kura <kura...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think about it too. But what is max T available? Some peltiers are > marked 67C delta. So in ideal conditions at room temperature 25C it > gets max t = 93C ( assuming we prevent cold side from cooling below > 25C) > Is not enough for ABS ( 110C) or polycarbonat (120C) but good for PLA. > In real life we cannot block cool side from cooling below room t so > actual max t will be lower....
> On Apr 14, 3:11 pm, Jelle Boomstra <je...@protospace.nl> wrote: >> yes, peltiers are relatively expensive. But 5 40Watt units should be >> plenty, and I think I paid like 25-30 dollar for 5 on ebay. It is not that >> expensive I think, and the time gained may compensate for it.
>> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boman33 <Boma...@vinland.com> wrote: >>> If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.****
>>> ** **
>>> Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it >>> will cool the top quickly.****
>>> ** **
>>> Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancy peltier >>> controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One >>> more project….****
>>> Bertho****
>>> ** **
>>> ** **
>>> ** **
>>> *From:* Jelle Boomstra *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2012 07:24
>>> ****
>>> Would using peltier elements be a viable solution? They are horribly >>> inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I >>> assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed >>> up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with >>> just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat >>> from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom. >>> I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)****
>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Ultimaker" group.
>>> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for >>> Ultimaker operators: >>> http://forum.ultimaker.com/
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> mendel max has the leading heat option (silicone heater with a relay > off the mains). glass is still the best but if you want to heat that > fast you have to get borosilicate glass.
It would be awesome if you gave arguments why its the leading heat option and why glass is the best.
fastest heat up since it runs off the mains. no PCB to futz with. glass is best for PLA. no kapton to worry about. literally thousands of prints off the same surface. the bottom surface is perfectly flat. you can't get a flatter surface than glass for $1.
ridiculously inexpensive, too.
mendel max has largest heated bed too. so they have researched and solved slow heat up times at that size.
<bernhard.kubi...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 4/15/2012 8:40 PM, Jordan Miller wrote:
>> mendel max has the leading heat option (silicone heater with a relay >> off the mains). glass is still the best but if you want to heat that >> fast you have to get borosilicate glass.
> It would be awesome if you gave arguments why its the leading heat option and why glass is the best.
> greetings, > bernhard
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On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Jordan Miller <jrdn...@gmail.com> wrote: > peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water > condensation on the cold side.
So? it is not like I really mind what happens on the cold side, as I am printing on the hot side. The cheap 4dollar peltiers are dipped in silicone it seems, so I would not expect any problems with that. Do you have any extended use experience with them?
As for max temperature difference: what happens when I apply more power to a junction that already has a ~65 degC temperature difference? I think this power will turn into more heat. The bottom plate may heat up some, but that is no problem for me.
> my glass bed has lasted more than 2 years with very high usage (~10-20 > hrs per week).
great, I am looking forward to your contributions!
-- Met vriendelijke groeten / with kind regards, Jelle Boomstra
The max temperature difference is relating to how cold it optimally can be reference to the hot side. If more power is dumped in the IR losses gets higher and the temperature difference becomes less and everything just gets hotter.
I think about it too. But what is max T available? Some peltiers are marked 67C delta. So in ideal conditions at room temperature 25C it gets max t = 93C ( assuming we prevent cold side from cooling below 25C)
Is not enough for ABS ( 110C) or polycarbonat (120C) but good for PLA.
In real life we cannot block cool side from cooling below room t so actual max t will be lower....
I have a 2mm glass on top of my heater (silicone pad under 3mm alu), and on my first print attempt, 65-68C top surface temp and 215C PLA temp just smears the first layer. 225C and 60C produced a bit better results, and my gut feeling is that 225C (first layer only, then back to 210-215C) and 55C might be more appropriate (in conjunction with heavy air cooling after the second layer).
On Sunday, April 15, 2012 3:44:22 PM UTC-4, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Jordan Miller wrote:
>> peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water condensation >> on the cold side.
> That would be indeed a concern, especially considering how well plywood
can withstand dripping moisture (not at all)
So? it is not like I really mind what happens on the cold side, as I am
> printing on the hot side. The cheap 4dollar peltiers are dipped in silicone > it seems, so I would not expect any problems with that. Do you have any > extended use experience with them? > As for max temperature difference: what happens when I apply more power to > a junction that already has a ~65 degC temperature difference? I think this > power will turn into more heat. The bottom plate may heat up some, but that > is no problem for me.
Since I have no experience with peltiers (other than reading the wiki), I'd say it would be better to use a more energy efficient and flexible setup: peltiers have only 5-10% efficiency, while resistive/conductive heating is much higher, plus resistive heating isn't bound to a 65C delta temp.
since the hot side heats up, and the cold side is not actively cooled, I would expect that the median temperature of the peltier would rise quick enough so that the cold side will not reach the dewpoint. Thats because the cooling power is much lower than the heating power due to the low total efficiency. but its just an educated guess.
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Joergen Geerds <jgee...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 3:44:22 PM UTC-4, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Jordan Miller wrote:
>> peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water condensation >>> on the cold side.
>> That would be indeed a concern, especially considering how well plywood > can withstand dripping moisture (not at all)
> So? it is not like I really mind what happens on the cold side, as I am >> printing on the hot side. The cheap 4dollar peltiers are dipped in silicone >> it seems, so I would not expect any problems with that. Do you have any >> extended use experience with them? >> As for max temperature difference: what happens when I apply more power >> to a junction that already has a ~65 degC temperature difference? I think >> this power will turn into more heat. The bottom plate may heat up some, but >> that is no problem for me.
> Since I have no experience with peltiers (other than reading the wiki), > I'd say it would be better to use a more energy efficient and flexible > setup: peltiers have only 5-10% efficiency, while resistive/conductive > heating is much higher, plus resistive heating isn't bound to a 65C delta > temp.
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They're expensive and not worth it. The local reprap guys all told me that a heated bed will cool rapidly if you just blast it with a fan. You can't do that if you're using regular glass but if you are then you can't cool it rapidly using any method, or it will break. Also, you can't reverse the current in the peltier's without a different circuit on the RAMPS, which means more wiring.
Also, if you have a peltier that has saturated with heat, reversing the current probably won't do a damn thing to cool it. Current applied to a peltier will first cool one side and heat the other, but eventually the inefficiency takes over and both sides heat up (I'm not an expert but I've played with them). Then if you reverse current, I don't think anything would change - it would still be oversaturated and the inefficiency of it would just cause it to stay hot.
You can improve the cooling of a peltier with a fan, but then you have to mount a bunch of fans under your heated bed and that takes up space, and is even more expensive and takes even more wiring. And meanwhile a single fan blowing on top of the bed would probably work just as well.
So for this application, the peltier's would act mostly as really overpriced resistors and probably aren't worth it.
-Taylor
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Bernhard Kubicek <
bernhard.kubi...@gmail.com> wrote: > since the hot side heats up, and the cold side is not actively cooled, I > would expect that the median temperature of the peltier would rise quick > enough so that the cold side will not reach the dewpoint. Thats because the > cooling power is much lower than the heating power due to the low total > efficiency. > but its just an educated guess.
> Bernhard
> On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Joergen Geerds <jgee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 15, 2012 3:44:22 PM UTC-4, Jelle Boomstra wrote:
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 8:40 PM, Jordan Miller wrote:
>>> peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water condensation >>>> on the cold side.
>>> That would be indeed a concern, especially considering how well plywood >> can withstand dripping moisture (not at all)
>> So? it is not like I really mind what happens on the cold side, as I am >>> printing on the hot side. The cheap 4dollar peltiers are dipped in silicone >>> it seems, so I would not expect any problems with that. Do you have any >>> extended use experience with them? >>> As for max temperature difference: what happens when I apply more power >>> to a junction that already has a ~65 degC temperature difference? I think >>> this power will turn into more heat. The bottom plate may heat up some, but >>> that is no problem for me.
>> Since I have no experience with peltiers (other than reading the wiki), >> I'd say it would be better to use a more energy efficient and flexible >> setup: peltiers have only 5-10% efficiency, while resistive/conductive >> heating is much higher, plus resistive heating isn't bound to a 65C delta >> temp.
>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Ultimaker" group.
>> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for >> Ultimaker operators: >> http://forum.ultimaker.com/
>> If you still want to post to this group, send email to >> ultimaker@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> ultimaker+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/ultimaker?hl=en
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ultimaker" group.
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On Sunday, April 15, 2012 11:54:46 PM UTC-4, Joergen Geerds wrote:
> Can you also share some real-world temp data?
> I have a 2mm glass on top of my heater (silicone pad under 3mm alu), and > on my first print attempt, 65-68C top surface temp and 215C PLA temp just > smears the first layer. 225C and 60C produced a bit better results, and my > gut feeling is that 225C (first layer only, then back to 210-215C) and 55C > might be more appropriate (in conjunction with heavy air cooling after the > second layer).
> peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water
> condensation on the cold side.
> mendel max has the leading heat option (silicone heater with a relay
> off the mains). glass is still the best but if you want to heat that
> fast you have to get borosilicate glass.
> a local hardware store should be able to cut you plate glass for $1
> for 8"x8" including labor.
> my glass bed has lasted more than 2 years with very high usage (~10-20
> hrs per week).
> jordan
> On Apr 15, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Kura <kura...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think about it too. But what is max T available? Some peltiers are
> > marked 67C delta. So in ideal conditions at room temperature 25C it
> > gets max t = 93C ( assuming we prevent cold side from cooling below
> > 25C)
> > Is not enough for ABS ( 110C) or polycarbonat (120C) but good for PLA.
> > In real life we cannot block cool side from cooling below room t so
> > actual max t will be lower....
> > On Apr 14, 3:11 pm, Jelle Boomstra <je...@protospace.nl> wrote:
> >> yes, peltiers are relatively expensive. But 5 40Watt units should be
> >> plenty, and I think I paid like 25-30 dollar for 5 on ebay. It is not that
> >> expensive I think, and the time gained may compensate for it.
> >> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boman33 <Boma...@vinland.com> wrote:
> >>> If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.****
> >>> ** **
> >>> Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it
> >>> will cool the top quickly.****
> >>> ** **
> >>> Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancypeltier
> >>> controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One
> >>> more project….****
> >>> Would usingpeltierelements be a viable solution? They are horribly
> >>> inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I
> >>> assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed
> >>> up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with
> >>> just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat
> >>> from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom.
> >>> I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)****
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >>> "Ultimaker" group.
> >>> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for
> >>> Ultimaker operators:
> >>>http://forum.ultimaker.com/
> >>> If you still want to post to this group, send email to
> >>> ultimaker@googlegroups.com
> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >>> ultimaker+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> >>> For more options, visit this group at
> >>>http://groups.google.com/group/ultimaker?hl=en
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ultimaker" group.
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because glass changes it's adhesive properties with temp you can always have the bed hover at a temp in between crazy firm attachment and unattached.
55 C is an optimal temp for my heated bed. it is hot enough that PLA sticks well. when the print is done the bed is already cold enough at 55 that after 1 min of fan blowing on the part I can manually twist off the printed part.
you can't get faster than that with any bed surface.
some people also make their glass plate removable. if you have a glass quick release you can blow a fan directly on the underside of the part. you will hear the 'crack crack crack' sound of the part detaching.
jordan
On Apr 21, 2012, at 10:39 AM, Kura <kura...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can wait when heating up but for some reasons I want to cold down > fast. How long do you wait for unsticking after bed turnd off?
> Yuri
> On Apr 15, 9:40 pm, Jordan Miller <jrdn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> peltiers are not good for extended use. you will get water >> condensation on the cold side.
>> mendel max has the leading heat option (silicone heater with a relay >> off the mains). glass is still the best but if you want to heat that >> fast you have to get borosilicate glass.
>> a local hardware store should be able to cut you plate glass for $1 >> for 8"x8" including labor.
>> my glass bed has lasted more than 2 years with very high usage (~10-20 >> hrs per week).
>> jordan
>> On Apr 15, 2012, at 1:39 PM, Kura <kura...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think about it too. But what is max T available? Some peltiers are >>> marked 67C delta. So in ideal conditions at room temperature 25C it >>> gets max t = 93C ( assuming we prevent cold side from cooling below >>> 25C) >>> Is not enough for ABS ( 110C) or polycarbonat (120C) but good for PLA. >>> In real life we cannot block cool side from cooling below room t so >>> actual max t will be lower....
>>> On Apr 14, 3:11 pm, Jelle Boomstra <je...@protospace.nl> wrote: >>>> yes, peltiers are relatively expensive. But 5 40Watt units should be >>>> plenty, and I think I paid like 25-30 dollar for 5 on ebay. It is not that >>>> expensive I think, and the time gained may compensate for it.
>>>> On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Boman33 <Boma...@vinland.com> wrote: >>>>> If it was not for the cost factor the peltiers would be great.****
>>>>> ** **
>>>>> Instead of just running them off at the end, reverse the polarity and it >>>>> will cool the top quickly.****
>>>>> ** **
>>>>> Hmmmm. I have a few peltiers laying around and a fancypeltier >>>>> controller for high power laser diode cooling that could be used. One >>>>> more project….****
>>>>> Bertho****
>>>>> ** **
>>>>> ** **
>>>>> ** **
>>>>> *From:* Jelle Boomstra *Sent:* Saturday, April 14, 2012 07:24
>>>>> ****
>>>>> Would usingpeltierelements be a viable solution? They are horribly >>>>> inefficient, but thus work good to produce heat. The cold underside (I >>>>> assume a sandwich of alu-peltier-alu) would just be a good bonus to speed >>>>> up cooling down when your print is finished. Perhaps that could work with >>>>> just passive conduction: switch off the power to the peltiers and the heat >>>>> from the top will sink through the peltiers to the cold bottom. >>>>> I think I found a nice project for one of our interns :)****
>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "Ultimaker" group.
>>>>> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for >>>>> Ultimaker operators: >>>>> http://forum.ultimaker.com/
>>>>> If you still want to post to this group, send email to >>>>> ultimaker@googlegroups.com >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> ultimaker+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/ultimaker?hl=en
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On Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:27:31 AM UTC-4, Jordan Miller wrote:
> because glass changes it's adhesive properties with temp you can > always have the bed hover at a temp in between crazy firm attachment > and unattached.
> 55 C is an optimal temp for my heated bed. it is hot enough that PLA > sticks well. when the print is done the bed is already cold enough at > 55 that after 1 min of fan blowing on the part I can manually twist > off the printed part.
> you can't get faster than that with any bed surface.
> some people also make their glass plate removable. if you have a glass > quick release you can blow a fan directly on the underside of the > part. you will hear the 'crack crack crack' sound of the part > detaching.
So far, in my experiments, the first layer sticks between 55 and 70C (official glass transition temp of PLA is 58C), starting with infill, then outlines, and printing pretty slow (20mm/s?) for the first layer... I leave the fan on right from the start. de-sticking happens at exactly 37C (crackle crack sound)
Also if you use borosilicate glass you can blast it with an auxiliary fan when the print is over and I hear it will cool super fast. Haven't tried that myself but I will if I decide I don't like the wait!
Joergen, about how long does it take from print end to 37C?
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Joergen Geerds <jgee...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:27:31 AM UTC-4, Jordan Miller wrote:
>> because glass changes it's adhesive properties with temp you can >> always have the bed hover at a temp in between crazy firm attachment >> and unattached.
>> 55 C is an optimal temp for my heated bed. it is hot enough that PLA >> sticks well. when the print is done the bed is already cold enough at >> 55 that after 1 min of fan blowing on the part I can manually twist >> off the printed part.
>> you can't get faster than that with any bed surface.
>> some people also make their glass plate removable. if you have a glass >> quick release you can blow a fan directly on the underside of the >> part. you will hear the 'crack crack crack' sound of the part >> detaching.
> So far, in my experiments, the first layer sticks between 55 and 70C > (official glass transition temp of PLA is 58C), starting with infill, then > outlines, and printing pretty slow (20mm/s?) for the first layer... I leave > the fan on right from the start. de-sticking happens at exactly 37C > (crackle crack sound)
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> There are also forums, which are the official gathering place for > Ultimaker operators: > http://forum.ultimaker.com/
> If you still want to post to this group, send email to > ultimaker@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > ultimaker+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/ultimaker?hl=en
On Saturday, April 21, 2012 6:01:15 PM UTC-4, Taylor wrote:
> Also if you use borosilicate glass you can blast it with an auxiliary fan > when the print is over and I hear it will cool super fast. Haven't tried > that myself but I will if I decide I don't like the wait!
> Joergen, about how long does it take from print end to 37C?
I can blast the $2 2mm glass sheet full throttle with the fans, no problem so far. If you take the glass off the heater, and set it aside, it cools down in about 2-5min, depending on the print size. if you leave it on the heater, and all 3 things need to cool down, it'll take 5-15 min, depending on the heat capacity of your system, and the cooling it receives.
you don't need borosilicate glass. plate glass works fantastically and is not as fragile as people are suggesting. and the cost is $1.
jordan
On Apr 21, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Joergen Geerds <jgee...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, April 21, 2012 6:01:15 PM UTC-4, Taylor wrote:
> Also if you use borosilicate glass you can blast it with an auxiliary fan > when the print is over and I hear it will cool super fast. Haven't tried > that myself but I will if I decide I don't like the wait!
> Joergen, about how long does it take from print end to 37C?
I can blast the $2 2mm glass sheet full throttle with the fans, no problem so far. If you take the glass off the heater, and set it aside, it cools down in about 2-5min, depending on the print size. if you leave it on the heater, and all 3 things need to cool down, it'll take 5-15 min, depending on the heat capacity of your system, and the cooling it receives.
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